b and k m200 mono blocks

[Bigmoney]

Sorry for so many posts but this is truly dire. I am on the verge of purchasing two b and k m200 monoblocks that put out 200 watts into 8 ohms to power my b and w dm 602"s. How will these match my speakers? seller is asking 475 for the pair is that a good price??
I know rotel matches b and k very well should I wait to buy a rotel product or is system synergy, in my case, not that important?

[Ajani]

I don't know much about the match between B & K and B & W.... but the price sounds really good... It would probably be worth a shot... at a minimum... the extra power should improve bass performance....

[Bigmoney]

I should see a drastic improvement over my denon 2801 receiver? How important is a quality preamp versus pre outs on a receiver?

[blackraven]

B&K amps have a really warm sound. I've always found B&W's to be on the bright side so it could be a good balance or sound like crap.
Try the preamp in your denon and if your not satisfied then buy a good preamp. A high quality preamp can make a big difference. The right preamp can brighten up the sound of the B&K's.

[Ajani]

B&K amps have a really warm sound. I've always found B&W's to be on the bright side so it could be a good balance or sound like crap.
Try the preamp in your denon and if your not satisfied then buy a good preamp. A high quality preamp can make a big difference. The right preamp can brighten up the sound of the B&K's.

Excellent advice.... i'll 2nd that suggestion...

[Bigmoney]

I wouldn't want to lay out the money though if you think it may not sound good. Really all I am trying to do is get lots of power with good synergy to harvest the lower frequencies from my speakers. My denon receiver is not good for 2 channel, an that is all that I do.
How are the following brands for my set up?
ADCOM
ARCAM
ROTEL
MCINTOSH
JOLIDA
NAD
do any of those strike you as a good match? I will probably end up going used to save money. I am thinking just go rotel for the synergy with my speakers, but I hear there are much better amps out there. Would you believe that if I set my sights on either the rotel 1070, or 1080 that would be my best bet in the price range of 400-700 used or are there better alternatives. I just choose rotel because as im sure you know they are owned by b and w. Thanks so much, don't mean to be a pain with all my questions but I just want to spend the little money I have the right way. Thanks again.

[Ajani]

I don't think you can go wrong with a B&W/Rotel combo....

I owned a Rotel 1080 and absolutely loved it!!!!! So I don't think you'll be dissapointed if you buy one... that being said though, I really really really, strongly recommend going to a Rotel/B&W dealer and hearing a Rotel and B&W combo for yourself... that's the easiest way to know if you'll like it....

[Bigmoney]

Funny thing, I did do that, however I have no reference point because I haven't heard my speakers with other amps. Although, I think I will go Rotel. Do you think I can get away with the 1070 powering these speakers or is the extra 200 dollars to jump from 130 to 200 watts justified in your opinion.

[Ajani]

The $200 is justified.... but not a must..... Unless you are really in need of the extra bass response, I think you'd be fine with the 1070....

[Bigmoney]

Thanks Ajani.......You have been a big help as always.

[blackraven]

There's nothing wrong with B&K amps. They always get good reviews and there's nothing wrong with a warmer sound. I prefer a warmer sound. You always take a chance on any piece of equipment you buy and trying to match it with other pieces in a Hi-Fi system. Does your Denon give a warm, neutral or bright sound? I think that the B&K would probably match well with the B&W's. If you don't like the sound you can always try and fine tune the sound with different cables like silver cables which tend to have a brighter tone, a brighter sounding pre amp or different CDP. If your trying to save money, look into the Outlaw audio monoblocks. 200wpc at 8 ohms and $325 per monoblock. Join the Outlaw audio forum called the saloon and ask people what type of sound they have and how they match with B&W's. I've looked into them and people there really like them. Many use them to drive Magnepans and other demanding speakers.

[Ajani]

Thanks Ajani.......You have been a big help as always.

Hey BM, I totally forgot to ask, are you interested in 2 channel or HT?

If you are going for a strictly 2 channel setup, then you could consider the Rotel RA-1062 Integrated Amp as a straight out replacement for the Denon Receiver... though the Rotel is rate at 60Watts, HiFi choice measure its output as 95Watts...+ it has a preamp output in case you later feel the need for more power....

[Bigmoney]

I am only interested in 2 channel. However, I will be going to college next year so I will be broke by than. I have 700 dollars saved towards an amp or integrated. I think whatever choice I make will have to last awhile. Is that enough money to buy something I should be happy with for awhile. Keeping in mind you may have better ears than I, I have only been invloved in audio for two years now. I just want to do it right. Would you keep saving. 700 hundred is a lot of money to me buy it will be well spent I feel like I should be able to get power to last me awhile with that. If I decided to go amp and preamp or just integrated then I could sell my denon for around 200 to help finance the purchase. To answer your question,blackraven I have not heard many amps honestly so the differences between warm,neutral and bright I have not discovered yet. But, as I continue my quest to be an audiophile I would like to know I made the right purchase now because it will have to last me awhile. What I can comment on with my denon is that I often have to play it around 60 percent to 75 percent of its max volume to get the volume to what I listen at. When played at high volumes the bass is grained,undefined, and bloated. The highs can sometimes be harsh and I begin to lose imaging. Obviously, the hiss becomes audible during inactive parts of the song. I know, or hope, this is not due to the quality of my speakers especially because I am using room treatments. I venture to say it's not because I read hundreds of reviews on 700 and under bookshelves and the b and w dm 602 won my vote through reviews and personal listening tests. Sorry for rambling. I just have so much to learn, and it's often hard to find other people my age with the same passion for music. I listen to pearl jam, phish, pink floyd, grateful dead, beatles, blues traveler and many more if you were wondering.

[blackraven]

I think if your on a budget and don't want to save up more money, then go for the B&K's. you can always sell them later on and get your money back. Like I said before, B&K is a quality amp that will take you into the entry level audiphile arena. Any amp that you buy you may end up not liking so dont drive yourself crazy trying to make a decision. There are plenty of amps that have a warm sound like NAD for example and many tube amps as well.
Pull the trigger!

[Ajani]

I am only interested in 2 channel. However, I will be going to college next year so I will be broke by than. I have 700 dollars saved towards an amp or integrated. I think whatever choice I make will have to last awhile. Is that enough money to buy something I should be happy with for awhile. Keeping in mind you may have better ears than I, I have only been invloved in audio for two years now. I just want to do it right. Would you keep saving. 700 hundred is a lot of money to me buy it will be well spent I feel like I should be able to get power to last me awhile with that. If I decided to go amp and preamp or just integrated then I could sell my denon for around 200 to help finance the purchase. To answer your question,blackraven I have not heard many amps honestly so the differences between warm,neutral and bright I have not discovered yet. But, as I continue my quest to be an audiophile I would like to know I made the right purchase now because it will have to last me awhile. What I can comment on with my denon is that I often have to play it around 60 percent to 75 percent of its max volume to get the volume to what I listen at. When played at high volumes the bass is grained,undefined, and bloated. The highs can sometimes be harsh and I begin to lose imaging. Obviously, the hiss becomes audible during inactive parts of the song. I know, or hope, this is not due to the quality of my speakers especially because I am using room treatments. I venture to say it's not because I read hundreds of reviews on 700 and under bookshelves and the b and w dm 602 won my vote through reviews and personal listening tests. Sorry for rambling. I just have so much to learn, and it's often hard to find other people my age with the same passion for music. I listen to pearl jam, phish, pink floyd, grateful dead, beatles, blues traveler and many more if you were wondering.

Based on those 2 points, I'd go with the Rotel RA-1062, which costs $700.... and you could sell the Denon...

But any of Blackraven's suggestions are also good, whether B&K , NAD etc.... Between NAD and Rotel, I hands down prefer Rotel... but that's based on my own listening preferences...

In terms of volume, I suggest carrying one of your favourite CD's to the Rotel dealer and trying out the Rotel 1062 with the B&W's at your usual listening volume.... That will tell you whether you have enough power or whether you should go for amps instead....

Try not to be in too much of a rush to buy though, if you listen to a number of options before you buy, then you'll likely be satisfied with your purchase for years to come....

[Bigmoney]

I am nervous to spend that much money for 60 watts. I would have "pulled the trigger" on the b and k monoblocks but I then found out it needs new output transistors which are like 100 dollars and I would not know how to begin installing them. My dealer recently had a rotel 1080 for 600, I will buy that if he still has it if not I will either wait til something else used comes in from rotel.

[Ajani]

I am nervous to spend that much money for 60 watts. I would have "pulled the trigger" on the b and k monoblocks but I then found out it needs new output transistors which are like 100 dollars and I would not know how to begin installing them. My dealer recently had a rotel 1080 for 600, I will buy that if he still has it if not I will either wait til something else used comes in from rotel.

$600 for a 1080 is an excellent deal!!!!

If it's not still available, you should still listen to the 1062 Integrated at the dealer... you might be suprised.....

When I was upgrading my audio setup about 2 years ago from a NAD integrated, I purchased a 1080 and then the matching 1070 Preamp.... I totally dismissed the 1062 Integrated because I though 60 watts would be a joke....

Interestingly enough, everytime I went back to the dealer to hear the latest B&W speakers, they were always using the 1062... the music was always far louder than I would play it at in my apt... and the dealer's showroom was much larger than my listening room... So at that point I realized that I spent $1.5K, when I could have spent just $700.... which kinda sucked... lol... It's why I suggest making sure to try out the 1062 before dismissing it... even if you do eventually dismiss it, at least you'll know for sure that you didn't spend more than you needed to in the long run...

And one last thing.... the 1062 is actually supposed to put out 95 watts... here's the review:

http://www.rotel.com/content/reviews/integrated%20amplifier/ra1062-hfc-awards-2003.pdf

[Bigmoney]

If I can find the rotel 1080 for 700 or less or the 1070 for 500 or less and connect that to the pre out on my denon 2801 receiver would that be better than selling my denon and using the 1062 alone for 2 channel playback. I am just skeptical as to how much I can really get out of 60 watts. I thought maybe since the 1062 is high current it might seem more powerful , but I am not sure if the 1080 is high curre t or not. Thanks. Atleast if I get the integrated I can eventually add a power amp or if I get the amp I can eventually add a pre amp. I figure to buy either the 1080 or 1070 and use my denon as a preamp if you agree thats the way to go. Then in the future I can sell the denon and get a dedicated preamp.

[Glen B]

If I can find the rotel 1080 for 700 or less or the 1070 for 500 or less and connect that to the pre out on my denon 2801 receiver would that be better than selling my denon and using the 1062 alone for 2 channel playback. I am just skeptical as to how much I can really get out of 60 watts. I thought maybe since the 1062 is high current it might seem more powerful , but I am not sure if the 1080 is high curre t or not. Thanks. Atleast if I get the integrated I can eventually add a power amp or if I get the amp I can eventually add a pre amp. I figure to buy either the 1080 or 1070 and use my denon as a preamp if you agree thats the way to go. Then in the future I can sell the denon and get a dedicated preamp.

Buy the 1080 if you can afford it or the 1070 and get a preamp later. It takes a doubling of power (or a 3dB increase) to make a noticeable difference in loudness level. The 1080 is more than three times as powerful as the RA1062. You do the math.

[blackraven]

Big Money, Audiophile liquidators has the B&K 125.2 S2 reference series amp for $698. www.bkcomp.com
Its 125wpc at 8ohms and 185wpc at 4ohms. Its a nice little high current amp with Balanced inputs as well. www.audiophileliquidator.net Alot of people use this to drive Magnepans if they are on a budget.They also have the NAD C272 amp for $650. Your other options are the Outlaw monoblocks at $325 each or the outlaw RR2150 receiver. Its conservatively rated at 125wpc 8ohms and 160 at 4ohm. Its a great deal for $600.

I'd go for an amp with more that 60wpc for those B&W's if you like to play your music loud.

[Bigmoney]

Of the ones you metioned, black raven which do you like best. Do you like them more than the 1080 or 1070

[Bigmoney]

I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL. I BIT THE BULLET AND WENT TO MY DEALER AND PURCHASED THE ROTEL 1080 FOR 600 DOLLARS. I hope that's a good deal.

[Ajani]

I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL. I BIT THE BULLET AND WENT TO MY DEALER AND PURCHASED THE ROTEL 1080 FOR 600 DOLLARS. I hope that's a good deal.

Congratulations.... You got a fantastic deal!!!! Let us know how the new amp sounds, once you've had the chance to do some serious listening....

[Bigmoney]

I will keep you informed you all really helped shape my decision. Can you tell me how big of a difference using my denon 2801 receiver is compared to buying a dedicated pre amp such as the rotel 1070 preamp

[Ajani]

I will keep you informed you all really helped shape my decision. Can you tell me how big of a difference using my denon 2801 receiver is compared to buying a dedicated pre amp such as the rotel 1070 preamp

It should make a significant difference... it's definitely a worthwhile upgrade for later on....

[blackraven]

Very good choice! Hope you really enjoy it.

[smooth grooves]

Just an update for everyone.

Reprinted from Stereomojo.com


"If you have been around high end audio for any length of time, you are familiar with the brand name B&K. If you’ve been around as long as I, you are even more familiar with the model number ST-140. Back in the early eighties, solid state in high-end amplifiers was in the early stages. Most audiophiles responded to solid state then much as they did to the CD when it first arrived – they hated it. Or, to be more accurate, the sound of it and for very similar reasons. Transistors sounded distorted, dry, etched and ultimately unmusical.

Two guys named John Byer and Steve Keiser got together to form a new company whose name was culled from their last names – B&K. The “B” did most of the marketing and the “K” handled the actual design of their first product; the B&K ST-140. It turned out to be the first solid state amp that audiophiles could get their ears around. While still not as rich as tubes (that battle still rages to this day), the ST-140 was said to at least be “musical” – high praise back then and a true breakthrough. Even today, a vintage 140 is a desirable find on the audio boards.

What Steve had discovered is that square sound waves looked a lot different as they passed through different stages of the amp. What was supposed to look perfectly always looked more like a 10 year chart of the S&P 500, particularly at the feedback junction. Steve attacked this condition and eventually was able to concoct a circuit whose square wave output looked much more correct throughout the whole circuit to the outputs.That turned out to be the big breakthrough that brought solid-state sound kicking and screaming into the rarified high-end realm.

Fast forward to 2002. “K” had left B&K and was introduced to Rick Schultz of Virtual Dynamics, the cable maker, and Mike Tseng. ”K” proposed that the three of them form an amplifier company based on a working prototype circuit that he felt would make a noteworthy contribution to the audio market place. Thus was born Luminance Audio. After more years of perfecting the new design and making it market ready, the KST-150 was born. Again, the KST moniker represents the first letter of the creator’s last names. This time Steve Keiser got top billing.

For those you of who believe in "Buy American", you will be glad to know that the KST-150 sports a "Made In USA" logo. "