Who LOST Kam this season?

[GMichael]

Where is this season's thread?
Where is Kam?
Why didn't FA start a thread?
What the h.ll?

Why did Jack and Hurley both get off the island if they went different ways?
Why should Hurley have gone with Jack?
Who's viewing was that and why is Jack to only one who went?
Why are Jack and Hurley so very upset?
Did Hurley see Jacob?
Is John still alive?
How many of them made it off?
Why does Jack want to go back?
Why doesn't Hurley want to go back?
Who was Hurley's first visitor?
What does he want?
What does he mean by, are they still alive?

Where is everyone?
Who's going to answer my questions?

[kexodusc]

What are you talking about? Kam's right here. Can't you see him, GM?
I'm sorry you feel that way, GM. And I'm sorry you're too limited to see....

[GMichael]

What are you talking about? Kam's right here. Can't you see him, GM?
I'm sorry you feel that way, GM. And I'm sorry you're too limited to see....

Smarty pants.

[ForeverAutumn]

I was waiting to see whether Kam would show up. It didn't seem right to start without him. But I can't wait any longer. Thanks for getting things rolling GM.

This was a very interesting episode and, in typical Lost fashion, raised a lot of new questions without answering any of the old ones. But it didn't compare to the opening episodes of S2 or S3. It didn't have that WTF! factor that discovering Desmond in the hatch or the book club in Othersville had. But it was still damn good and has me impatient for next Thursday.

I have all the same questions that GM has already raised. But I also have few observations and theories to make.

1. When Naomi said, "tell my sister that I love her", was that sincere or a code? Perhaps a code to say, "these people are dangerous and have hurt me, proceed with caution".

2. Hurley saw someone in the cabin. If you check the investigations at Sledgeweb's site it looks like Jack's father. http://lost.cubit.net/

3. I was also wondering how Hurley got back when he went with Locke. My theory is that the people on the boat came to rescue specific people. Like when The Others sent Micheal back to the beach with a list of who to bring back to them. Speaking of which...whatever happened to Micheal and Walt? Hurley is part of the Oceanic Six. That has left us to assume that six people were rescued together. What happened to Micheal and Walt? Are they part of the Oceanic Six? Are they the Original Two (I made that up so don't go looking for the reference)? Did they ever get 'home'?

4. I don't think that the people left on the island (not rescued) can die. If they do, how can they get 3 more seasons out of this show?

5. Most of my friends think that it's Ben in the coffin. I think that's too easy. I'm wondering if it's someone that we haven't even met yet. Based on Jack's appearance and frame of mind in last night's episode and in last season's finale, there appears to be quite a bit of time between them. Enough time for Jack to deteriorate into an unkempt alcoholic and drug addict. So there could be time for additional people to show up and have an impact on our Losties lives back in the real world.

6. What turns Jack from being the happy guy from last night into the mess that we saw last year?

I'm going to rewatch the episode later today. I'll post any new thoughts after viewing it again.

[GMichael]

When Jack visited Hurley, he seemed OK. No beard (that he mentioned wanting to grow) and not drugged up yet. So, what happened after that to drive Jack so far into his ditch?

[ForeverAutumn]

A few rambling observations after watching last nights episode a second time.

Jack puts vodka in his orange juice. Maybe he’s not as together as he appears.

In Hurley’s vision of Charlie at the police station, Charlie has “They need you” written on his hand which presses up against the glass just before it breaks. This is the same thing that Charlie says to Hurley when he appears at the Hospital. I first saw this on Sledgeweb’s site this morning. Then confirmed it by freeze framing the segment.

When Kate hugs Jack and steals the cell phone, the camera moves to Ben watching them hug. You can see a subtle change in Ben’s face when he sees Kate take the phone. It’s so subtle that I totally missed it last night but now, knowing what Kate is up to, Ben’s face gives it away. It the small details like that that make this show so good.

When Jack goes to visit Hurley and Hurley says that they made a mistake, Jack looks really scared. I think that Jack also believes that they made a mistake but he’s trying to deny it and go on with his life. We all know how that ends up (so far).

[Worf101]

I swore up and donw that they wouldn't hook me again and dammit if they didn't right from the start. I love the show BUT.... The jumping from the Island to the past I could handle but this jumping to the future and back and then not as far in the future pheh... feel like I'm watching an episode of Star Trek Enterprise. This show is friggin' confusing enough without multiple timelines.

But I'm happy it's back.

Da Worfster

[topspeed]

I love that they are jumping forward now. It takes the show in completely new direction as we are all now left waiting to see what happens to so dramatically change these people. The questions is no longer "Will they ever be rescued?" Now, it's much deeper. Now, we have to wonder why only 6 made it off, what happened to the Others, why does Jack want to get back so badly, etc.

Watching the rerun of last season's finale as well as that Pop-Up episode (which was done quite well) really helped bring things into focus for the premiere. Compared to the enormous morass of crap being pandered as "entertainment" these days, LOST truly is an, erm...island. This is what good television should be and I finally have something to watch again!

[kexodusc]

I love that they are jumping forward now. It takes the show in completely new direction as we are all now left waiting to see what happens to so dramatically change these people. The questions is no longer "Will they ever be rescued?" Now, it's much deeper. Now, we have to wonder why only 6 made it off, what happened to the Others, why does Jack want to get back so badly, etc.

Watching the rerun of last season's finale as well as that Pop-Up episode (which was done quite well) really helped bring things into focus for the premiere. Compared to the enormous morass of crap being pandered as "entertainment" these days, LOST truly is an, erm...island. This is what good television should be and I finally have something to watch again!
Yeah, I gotta agree with you here.

This show became a lot less about "will they get off the island?" and more about "what the @#$% is happening on that island?" about 38 minutes into episode 1.

For now the immediate question is what is drawing them back to the island? And more importantly, can Kex get through all of season 3 before Thursday night to refresh his memory?

[ForeverAutumn]

I'm with topspeed on the flash forwards also. When you take a group of people and isolate them away from their normal lives like Lost does, it makes it difficult to be able to develop the characters using the usual props like family members, friends and circumstances. The flash backs provided the show with a way to help the viewers understand and empathize (or not) with the characters. But we've spent three years learning about these characters pasts. How much more about Jin's fisherman upbringing and corrupt, heartless father-in-law do we need to know?

The flash forwards add a whole new spin to the game. We've learned who these people were. Now we get to see who they become.

It's very exciting!

[JSE]

I'm with topspeed on the flash forwards also. When you take a group of people and isolate them away from their normal lives like Lost does, it makes it difficult to be able to develop the characters using the usual props like family members, friends and circumstances. The flash backs provided the show with a way to help the viewers understand and empathize (or not) with the characters. But we've spent three years learning about these characters pasts. How much more about Jin's fisherman upbringing and corrupt, heartless father-in-law do we need to know?

The flash forwards add a whole new spin to the game. We've learned who these people were. Now we get to see who they become.

It's very exciting!

This is the only show that has ever given me a headache after each time I watch it. In a good way though. The brainpower needed to process, reprocess and then reprocess the reprocessed info drains my mind!

I also like the flash forwards. Just think if they really decide to flash "way forward" and Jack, Hurley and the remaining 4 other Oceanic Six are back on the Island a second time to help the others left behind? Oiy! My heads starting to hurt again.

[topspeed]

Just think if they really decide to flash "way forward" and Jack, Hurley and the remaining 4 other Oceanic Six are back on the Island a second time to help the others left behind? Oiy! My heads starting to hurt again. We've got another 3 seasons, right? Never say never.

[GMichael]

What happens when these people flipping back and forth between the pressent, past and future start running into themselves. Will they cancel themselves out, like on Louis & Clark? Will they pass out like on Back to the Future? Will my brain explode if I try to figure it out?

[ForeverAutumn]

I also like the flash forwards. Just think if they really decide to flash "way forward" and Jack, Hurley and the remaining 4 other Oceanic Six are back on the Island a second time to help the others left behind? Oiy! My heads starting to hurt again.

I think that Cartman may have just figured out the secret to Desmond's "memories". :idea:

[Worf101]

This is the only show that has ever given me a headache after each time I watch it.,,,,, My heads starting to hurt again.

Which head?

sorry... I just couldn't resist..... urrrrgh....

Da Worfster

[topspeed]

Hittin' the Romulan Ale again, eh Worfster?

[ForeverAutumn]

When Naomi said, "tell my sister that I love her", was that sincere or a code? Perhaps a code to say, "these people are dangerous and have hurt me, proceed with caution".

Oh my FA, aren't you clever! :ihih:

Locke: I'd probably be dead if I still had a kidney there.

!!!!!!!

So, daddy dearest who scammed and then tried to kill Locke actually just saved Locke's life? Oh the irony.

They found the plane and everyone is dead. But apparently not everyone on the plane is who they appear to be. So is the plane in the ocean a plant? Did someone put it there to be found? Who? Why?

Were the stories of the four people on the helicopter in the past or the future? When was the airplane found? Why is the anthropologist chick digging up polar bears in the desert and knows what the Dharma symbol was. At least she looked like she knew.

And now we know that the guy who went to visit Hurley in the hospital orchestrated the whole "rescue" mission. What we don't know is WHY?

Who is Ben's man on the freighter? Will Ben be rescued? Killed (and by who)? Left to continue life on the island?

OMG! Too many questions and not enough answers.

I'm going to have to watch that again.

[kexodusc]

2 pts to FA for guessing catching the first fake-out.

My wife clued in right away that the plane didn't break apart accordingly and was in fact a planted cover story (or so we are lead to believe).

Polar bear...desert...Dharma collar...what?

Anyone else notice the double-take Ben gave when Hurley mentioned the cabin?

[ForeverAutumn]

I noticed the double take...and Locke's attempt to cover up Hurley's comment real fast, "What cabin is that Hurley?".

Here are some more thoughts after having had time to let it all digest...

While our Losties are getting to know their new visitors, there is some shiite going down on the freighter. When Ghostbuster called the ship and a woman answered, he asked to speak to someone. She said that he couldn't come to phone. Her voice sounded stressed and the background noise sounded like some sort of commotion going on. She very quickly said, "I've got to go" and hung up.

This all seemed very strange to me at the time. She wasn't very interested in where Ghostbuster was, how the mission was going, how to get him back to the ship, etc. It was like she had other things on her mind.

I have two opposing theories regarding this scene.

1. The guy that GB wanted to talk to is Ben's man on the ship and his cover has been blown and the others on the ship are 'dealing' with him.

2. Ben's man on the ship has done something to sabotage the mission and the guy that GB wants to talk to is either dead, badly injured, or in the middle of a fight.

[Groundbeef]

Couple of things.

1. There was reference to a "fake" plane in a season past. I can't remember exactly who said it, but I remeber it. In fact, it may have been Charlie when talking on the radio to the lady looking for Desmond. When he said he was from Oceanic 815, she said something to the effect that it was impossible because the plane was found in the ocean.

I can't be the only one that remembers it.

2. It seems that Benry is pretty much a wanted man. It will be intersting to see how it starts to take shape.

3. Did the Ghostbuster got to Walts Grandmothers house?

4. Was the Dharma symbol on the Polar Bear the same as the symbol from the Zoo?

5. According to ABC, there are no longer any "Flashback" segments. Anything seen in this season will be a "FlashForward". They have added a new wrinkle, and I find them more maddening than the old Flashback. It's like foreplay, but having to wait 16 weeks for the payoff!

[GMichael]

Couple of things.

1. There was reference to a "fake" plane in a season past. I can't remember exactly who said it, but I remeber it. In fact, it may have been Charlie when talking on the radio to the lady looking for Desmond. When he said he was from Oceanic 815, she said something to the effect that it was impossible because the plane was found in the ocean.

I can't be the only one that remembers it.

2. It seems that Benry is pretty much a wanted man. It will be intersting to see how it starts to take shape.

3. Did the Ghostbuster got to Walts Grandmothers house?

4. Was the Dharma symbol on the Polar Bear the same as the symbol from the Zoo?

5. According to ABC, there are no longer any "Flashback" segments. Anything seen in this season will be a "FlashForward". They have added a new wrinkle, and I find them more maddening than the old Flashback. It's like foreplay, but having to wait 16 weeks for the payoff!

1. I remember that also.
2. By more than a few.
3. ???
4. It looked the same at first glance. I didn't go back to make sure.
5. But some of the flashbacks had to go back in time. Otherwise, how would Naomi still be alive in the future?

[Groundbeef]

1. I remember that also.
2. By more than a few.
3. ???
4. It looked the same at first glance. I didn't go back to make sure.
5. But some of the flashbacks had to go back in time. Otherwise, how would Naomi still be alive in the future?

#3. I wasn't sure who's house the Ghostbuster dude went too. At first I thought maybe it was Walts Grandmothers house. On sledgeweb there is speculation that somehow it's related to Ecko.

5. I think your right. I'll have to re-read the article I had about the flashback/forwards.

[GMichael]

#3. I wasn't sure who's house the Ghostbuster dude went too. At first I thought maybe it was Walts Grandmothers house. On sledgeweb there is speculation that somehow it's related to Ecko.

5. I think your right. I'll have to re-read the article I had about the flashback/forwards.

3. I had not even given who's house it was any thought. Guess I should.

5. Maybe they said that there are no flashbacks to before they were on the island?

[ForeverAutumn]

Couple of things.

1. There was reference to a "fake" plane in a season past. I can't remember exactly who said it, but I remeber it. In fact, it may have been Charlie when talking on the radio to the lady looking for Desmond. When he said he was from Oceanic 815, she said something to the effect that it was impossible because the plane was found in the ocean.

I can't be the only one that remembers it.

2. It seems that Benry is pretty much a wanted man. It will be intersting to see how it starts to take shape.

3. Did the Ghostbuster got to Walts Grandmothers house?

4. Was the Dharma symbol on the Polar Bear the same as the symbol from the Zoo?

5. According to ABC, there are no longer any "Flashback" segments. Anything seen in this season will be a "FlashForward". They have added a new wrinkle, and I find them more maddening than the old Flashback. It's like foreplay, but having to wait 16 weeks for the payoff!

1. Yes, now that you're saying that I remember it. It was Naomi who said it. I think that she said it to Hurley when they found her in the forest. So, did the people on the freighter know, before they got there, that the survivors were there? Or were they just going to try to find Ben and finding the survivors was a surprise?

3. I was wondering that myself. I guess it depends whether that was a flash-back intended to introduce us to the ghostbuster, in which case Walt would have been too young and also was living with his mom and step-dad. Or whether it was a flash-forward, in which case it could have been Walt but the pictures didn't look like him to me. I don't think it was Walt. I think it was just the shows way of introducing us to Mr. Sixth Sense.

[Groundbeef]

3. I was wondering that myself. I guess it depends whether that was a flash-back intended to introduce us to the ghostbuster, in which case Walt would have been too young and also was living with his mom and step-dad. Or whether it was a flash-forward, in which case it could have been Walt but the pictures didn't look like him to me. I don't think it was Walt. I think it was just the shows way of introducing us to Mr. Sixth Sense.

By this point, I don't think Lost does much in the way of "introduction" without some underlying meaning.

I am not convinced that Mr. Ghostbuster is what he says he is. I think that he is similar to Sawyer, and is a scammer.

After all, he totally lied to the old lady. He was looking for money, (after overcharging the woman, then making a "refund" of the overpayment). There is something else going on in Gothem, and it stinks.

This show is full of cons. Remeber the one that Claire was connected with? And Sawyer, and now this guy? I don't think its a coincidence.

[ForeverAutumn]

You make some very good points!

[GMichael]

By this point, I don't think Lost does much in the way of "introduction" without some underlying meaning.

I am not convinced that Mr. Ghostbuster is what he says he is. I think that he is similar to Sawyer, and is a scammer.

After all, he totally lied to the old lady. He was looking for money, (after overcharging the woman, then making a "refund" of the overpayment). There is something else going on in Gothem, and it stinks.

This show is full of cons. Remeber the one that Claire was connected with? And Sawyer, and now this guy? I don't think its a coincidence.

Maybe he was a con-man. But who was he talking to in there? Who made the noise to show him where the money was? Why did he tell him/her to leave now? What was the butchered vacuum cleaner for? Just to make noise in case anyone was listening?

[Groundbeef]

Maybe he was a con-man. But who was he talking to in there? Who made the noise to show him where the money was? Why did he tell him/her to leave now? What was the butchered vacuum cleaner for? Just to make noise in case anyone was listening?

I haven't worked it all out yet, but I think he is a con. He was looking for money.

The vacum was just to make noise I think.

You ask a lot of questions. Whats your record?

[GMichael]

I haven't worked it all out yet, but I think he is a con. He was looking for money.

The vacum was just to make noise I think.

You ask a lot of questions. Whats your record?

All I have are questions so far. I'd throw in some answers if I had any.

"What is the monster?"

[topspeed]

This past episode was, by far, the most confusing in quite awhile. I couldn't tell if we were flashing forward, backwards, or sideways.
Why did Headcase start crying when he saw the news report about Oceanic 815?
Why were these four chosen?
Why did they all have street clothes on?
When the Pilot was talking to the accident agency woman about the mistaken ID of the pilot, didn't anybody else think she sounded like she was part of the cover-up as well?
Why was the anthropologist the only one with a bullet-proof vest? Did she know she was going to get shot?

Waaaay too many questions in this one.

[ForeverAutumn]

Why was the anthropologist the only one with a bullet-proof vest?

How do you know that she was the only one? Maybe they all came with vests on after hearing Naomi's code.

[Groundbeef]

How do you know that she was the only one? Maybe they all came with vests on after hearing Naomi's code.

Cue creepy music......

Maybe Topspeed knows because he's Benry's guy on the freighter....

[ForeverAutumn]

They found the plane and everyone is dead. But apparently not everyone on the plane is who they appear to be. So is the plane in the ocean a plant? Did someone put it there to be found? Who? Why?

Something just popped into my head...

Who knows that there were survivors from Oceanic 815?
Who has reason to not want them to be found?
Who would be so devious as to plant a fake plane with fake people at the bottom of the ocean to end the search?

BEN! That's who!

[ForeverAutumn]

It looks like Lost episodes are being lost. :nonod:

The Entertainment Weekly site has an update on when shows will return now that the writer's strike is over. From the EW site:

LOST (ABC)
CURRENTLY AIRING For 10 episodes
INSIDE SCOOP Lost will take a break in mid-March before resuming the next month; the 16-episode season arc will be told in 13 episodes.

It sounds like our current 8 episodes will extend to 10. A break. Then only three more.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kexodusc]

It looks like Lost episodes are being lost. :nonod:

The Entertainment Weekly site has an update on when shows will return now that the writer's strike is over. From the EW site:

LOST (ABC)
CURRENTLY AIRING For 10 episodes
INSIDE SCOOP Lost will take a break in mid-March before resuming the next month; the 16-episode season arc will be told in 13 episodes.

It sounds like our current 8 episodes will extend to 10. A break. Then only three more.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes less is more...beats having 8, then waiting for a strike to end before getting more sometime in January '09.

[ForeverAutumn]

Sometimes less is more...beats having 8, then waiting for a strike to end before getting more sometime in January '09.

But they went from 23 shows in seasons 1, 2 and 3 to what was supposed to be 16 in S4 and is now only 13 in S4. I just feel ripped off is all. It's like we're only getting half a season but they're calling it a full season.

It's kind of like going to a fine restaurant and ordering an expensive steak only to find out that the steak is only 4oz. I don't care how damn good the steak is I'm still gonna be hungry!

[GMichael]

But they went from 23 shows in seasons 1, 2 and 3 to what was supposed to be 16 in S4 and is now only 13 in S4. I just feel ripped off is all. It's like we're only getting half a season but they're calling it a full season.

It's kind of like going to a fine restaurant and ordering an expensive steak only to find out that the steak is only 4oz. I don't care how damn good the steak is I'm still gonna be hungry!

Have some veggies and a little bread. Don't forget the soup and salad. You'll be fine.
Great! Now I'm hungry.

[kexodusc]

But they went from 23 shows in seasons 1, 2 and 3 to what was supposed to be 16 in S4 and is now only 13 in S4. I just feel ripped off is all. It's like we're only getting half a season but they're calling it a full season.

It's kind of like going to a fine restaurant and ordering an expensive steak only to find out that the steak is only 4oz. I don't care how damn good the steak is I'm still gonna be hungry!
Well, I guess when you put it like that. It sucks it's not 23 shows, but they'll make it up somehow, someway, I'm sure. Just gotta have faith.

[topspeed]

It's kind of like going to a fine restaurant and ordering an expensive steak only to find out that the steak is only 4oz. I don't care how damn good the steak is I'm still gonna be hungry! :lol: I HATE that feeling!

You know, with the strike over, you'd think they would be extending the season, not shortening it. This is like The Sopranos, their season's seemed to get shorter and shorter while the breaks between seasons approached comic status.

It's well known that Abrams knows exactly how the show will end when it takes the final bow, so you'd think he knows how he wants to get from Point A to Point B to Point C. While I'm not happy the season is so short, I'm confident we'll get everything we need to know in supercharged morsels.

[kexodusc]

It's well known that Abrams knows exactly how the show will end when it takes the final bow, so you'd think he knows how he wants to get from Point A to Point B to Point C. While I'm not happy the season is so short, I'm confident we'll get everything we need to know in supercharged morsels.

Think the lost shows are result of cancelled production - the story itself might be in Abrams head but translating that into a screenplay, script etc probably requires a writer. Maybe we'll get a super-duper 36 episode season 5?

[Kam]

My Losties!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, my sincerest apologies for the long dissapearance, i have some major catching up to do and my most sincerest apologies for not being here in time to start the thread, however thanks to GM for starting it and for Topspeed for dragging me back!!

I've been lost a little (pun intended) with work and a new play whose rehearsals are nuts and rather draining. however, i shall now begin the insanity again, rest assured i have not failed to miss an episode or been coming up with as wild theories as ever...

i shall read what everyone has written first however, so that i may jump in as intelligibly as possible with the current discussion!

[Kam]

just for the total trivia minded dvd-extra lovers out there... had i gotten off my ass in time and made the thread, it would have been called:

"I once was LOST but i'm still not found....."

:D

[Kam]

ok so i dont think this has been brought up yet...

polar bear in the desert??? with the dharma symbol on that sandal??

what in the???

[ForeverAutumn]

just for the total trivia minded dvd-extra lovers out there... had i gotten off my ass in time and made the thread, it would have been called:

"I once was LOST but i'm still not found....."

:D

YAY! Kam's back!

That would have been a great thread title Kam. Save that one for S5...if it's still appropriate.

Was that a sandle that she found with the polar bear in the desert? I thought that it was a collar that the bear wore. Either way, it doesn't explain what a polar bear was doing in the desert. But it's not really any stranger than a polar bear on our island, is it?

If Dharma was also doing experiments in the desert...what happened to the desert people? Did they suffer the same fate as our island Dharma folks?

[ForeverAutumn]

You can sent a Lost valentine e-card to your loved one...

http://abc.go.com/valentinesdaycards/index?pn=index

[topspeed]

I was curious about the scorpion sign on the Dharma collar from the polar bear. Does anybody remember that symbol for one of the stations on the island?

BTW, welcome back, Kam.

[GMichael]

Welcome back KAM. I missed you.

[Kam]

I was curious about the scorpion sign on the Dharma collar from the polar bear. Does anybody remember that symbol for one of the stations on the island?

BTW, welcome back, Kam.

thanks top!!

and i thought it was a hydra? i have to find a screencap of it. my first reaction was it looked like the hydra station logo, but it might be a scorpion.

[Kam]

YAY! Kam's back!

That would have been a great thread title Kam. Save that one for S5...if it's still appropriate.

Was that a sandle that she found with the polar bear in the desert? I thought that it was a collar that the bear wore. Either way, it doesn't explain what a polar bear was doing in the desert. But it's not really any stranger than a polar bear on our island, is it?

If Dharma was also doing experiments in the desert...what happened to the desert people? Did they suffer the same fate as our island Dharma folks?

oh maybe that was a collar, k, off to find screencaps i am!!

but the one thing that struck a cord with that scene was the excavation finding polar bear remains in what one would think of as an 'ancient' dig? was there any references to the time of the dig, as in what they were digging for or anything in the background that showed what they were digging up?


i also thought it tied in to the statue we saw from before, the 4-toed statue and dharma's connection with an ancient "lost" civilization?

[Kam]

Welcome back KAM. I missed you.

great to be back! missed you and everyone else too!!

my Fav Film Fam!!!

[dean_martin]

Since a local Lostie informed me that it would be futile to try to get into Lost at this point, I've followed this thread only to see if Kam was coming back.

It's good to hear from you again, Kam!

[topspeed]

I disagree, Dino. ABC showed a special before the season premiere that was actually very informative. It kind of brought everyone up to speed and reminded me of little tidbits I had forgotten.

You can watch that episode on your computer here. (http://dynamic.abc.go.com/streaming/landing) Click on LOST and watch "Lost: Past, Present & Future" and it will get you where we are...which is confused as all get out!

[ForeverAutumn]

Here's (http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2008/02/4x02-polar-bear-collar.php#more) the polar bear collar.

[JSE]

Ahhhhh! WTF?

Our favorite Iraqi has turned hitman?................................For Ben?

My head is hurting again, I gotta sleep on this one. :confused5:

JSE

[topspeed]

"Great. The freighter brought another Sawyer." :lol: :lol:

OK, so next week reveals another of the Oceanic 6. Here's who we know got off:
Jack
Kate
Hugo
Said
Ben

Sawyer doesn't want to go. Locke wouldn't go by his own volition. Rule out the couples because one would leave without the other and who do we have left? The aussie w/ the baby?

Said is an assassin for Ben?!? Supposedly he's doing it to protect his friends. From whom? The people that planted the fake plane and bodies?

BTW, I had no idea the pilot was Jeff Fahey until I saw the credits. Boy, he got old! Put on a few ounces here and there too.

[kexodusc]

Hey Kamster's back.

Kam buddy, we bought the first few rounds, now it's your turn. Sorry, FA drank yours.

"Great. The freighter brought another Sawyer"...do the writers come up with this stuff or do the actors ad lib it. The comedic relief on this show is probably as good as I've seen on any drama - it always stays in the context of the show's plot, is executed well, and never upstages the storyline. Maybe I'm just a lost geek but that made me spew coffee last night.

What are your fav one-liners from the show so far? Mine has to be Hurley's mom - only cause she reminds me so much of my own...in a good way.

Carmen Reyes: Maybe if you pray every day Jesus Christ will come down from heaven, take 200 pounds, and bring you a decent woman, and a new car...
[Phone rings]
Carmen Reyes: Oh! That must be Jesus! Hola? Momento! Yes, it is Jesus! He wants to know what color car you want!
:lol:
Seriously, who writes this stuff?

[ForeverAutumn]

I'm sorry but how stupid are Sayid and Kate?! I saw Hurley in the closet and immediately thought TRAP! I don't care how convincing Locke can be, nobody else is going to let him tie up Hurley, stuff him in a closet and leave him behind. Not happening...uh uh...no way.

Speedy, I don't think that Ben would be counted as an Oceanic Six. He wasn't on the plane. We know that the Oceanic Six are keeping secrets and I think that Ben is one of the secrets.

Could five and six be Claire and the baby? Would the press count the baby as one of the six? Desmond saw Claire leave, that's gotta mean something (does it mean that Claire leaves and Desmond doesn't?).

No-one has even mentioned the secret room that Sayid found in Ben's house yet. WTF was that all about? Not only was it full of money and passports, but I think that I recall seeing racks of men’s clothes. Is Ben a secret fashion diva?

And what about the "payload" (I think that's what he called it) that the Ship airmailed to geek-boy on the island. It took way longer than he expected to get there and when it did, it appeared that the clock that was sent to him differed from the clock in his pocket. More proof that we're time shifting?

So here's my new theory...back to the first "flash forward" at the end of S3. When Kate says to Jack, "I have to go, he'll be wondering where I am", I think that she's referring to Ben. She is somehow involved with Ben, perhaps working for him like Sayid. Because, really, Kate should be in jail…but she’s not. How did she get out of it…unless she’s with Ben and Ben knows people who can help her.

Locke is in the casket. Not sure how he got there yet, but I think it's him. My guess is that Locke will be revealed as the final member of the Oceanic Six. This rescue is not as simple as we thought it would be last season. At this point, both Hurley and Kate are with Locke, but we know that they both get off the island, so what’s to say that Locke doesn’t somehow join them.

I need answers. WHAT IS THE MONSTER DAMMIT?!

[Kam]

michael emerson was on the opie and anthony show this morning. emerson's brother had a theory about the Monster.

that dust/ash that surrounds Jacob's cabin animates into the Monster.

i don't think Ben is one of the Oceanic 6 either. and time for Kam's first long shot theory:

I think it might be that Ben makes the arrangements to get the 6 off the island with his usual caveats and side dealings that some (kate, sayid, ?) help him OFF the island to kill the people who would try and find out where the island is. So that whoever is left on "Paradise" gets to stay there and these 6-7 that leave the island, leave to protect it.

and the other lil mystery emerson brought up on the interview was that dude from Suddenly Susan not having aged a bit. and what was that all about? He didn't have an answer, pretty much said it like that hahaha.

[Kam]

Since a local Lostie informed me that it would be futile to try to get into Lost at this point, I've followed this thread only to see if Kam was coming back.

It's good to hear from you again, Kam!

grazie deano!! missed you guys!! trying to catch up on all the readings here!

[GMichael]

Why does everyone take a step back whenever someone mentions "The Oceanic 6?" (not counting the one cop who picked up Hurley) Is it because they know that Ben is hunting them? Is it because there is something publicly known that we haven't heard yet?

[ForeverAutumn]

Why does everyone take a step back whenever someone mentions "The Oceanic 6?" (not counting the one cop who picked up Hurley) Is it because they know that Ben is hunting them? Is it because there is something publicly known that we haven't heard yet?

The only person that I recall taking a step back is the guy that Sayid shot on the golf course...there was obviously something going on there that we Lost muggles aren't privy to yet. Although, that was a pretty darn nice golf shot for a guy who was as unhinged as he appeared to be.

Who else stepped back? Did I miss something?

[Kam]

The only person that I recall taking a step back is the guy that Sayid shot on the golf course...there was obviously something going on there that we Lost muggles aren't privy to yet. Although, that was a pretty darn nice golf shot for a guy who was as unhinged as he appeared to be.

Who else stepped back? Did I miss something?

when i saw that i took it to be more of a 'avoid-the-dude-with-obvious-bad-luck' type of deal rather than anything more ominous than that. although... then having watched the full episode and sayid's last line of they'll know i'm after them and ben's so cheerful reply of "goooooood" that maybe this dude knew sayid was there to kill him and wanted to try and get away? or when he heard who he was knew that there were rumors of sayid working for an 'unknown somebody' who was killing the people of their consortium that's trying to find the island? or... who the fark knows?

[Kam]

Here's (http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2008/02/4x02-polar-bear-collar.php#more) the polar bear collar.

so it's a 6 headed snake/hydra... isn't the hydra for Hydra Station with 5 heads? kinda like our good friend of the Dharma video with the missing and then re-appearing arm?

[ForeverAutumn]

when i saw that i took it to be more of a 'avoid-the-dude-with-obvious-bad-luck' type of deal rather than anything more ominous than that. although... then having watched the full episode and sayid's last line of they'll know i'm after them and ben's so cheerful reply of "goooooood" that maybe this dude knew sayid was there to kill him and wanted to try and get away? or when he heard who he was knew that there were rumors of sayid working for an 'unknown somebody' who was killing the people of their consortium that's trying to find the island? or... who the fark knows?

I suspect that the guy had something to do with the crash/rescue/island/dharma/ben/mission/who knows and was paranoid about meeting an Oceanic survivor, but I don't think that he knew for certain that Sayid was there to kill him until Sayid called him by his last name...which the guy hadn't stated during their introductions. He didn't get nervous when Sayid introduced himself...only when he mentioned his big settlement and being one of the six.

Sayid has become such an interesting character. On the one hand, here's this guy who's tortured people in his past and is now murdering them in his present. He's a cold-blooded killer for sure. Yet you can't help but like the guy!

[L.J.]

***pokes head in.....has no clue what anyone is talkin' about....gives a what's up nod to Kam.....shuts the door***

[JSE]

Another thing, what's up with the bracelets? Naomi (the girl that Locke knifed), I think that was her name, had the same bracelet at the girl Said killed in in London/Paris or wherever they were. Said really seem to be interested in the bracelet when he took it off Naomi but why, that was in the past. The girl he killed with the same bracelet was a flashforward. Maybe this has something to do with the whole time shift theory? He clearly saw the bracelet on the girl he killed. So Naomi and the female assasin that Said killed are linked somehow.

Also, I'm thinking the redhead researcher that "dropped" onto the Island might be related to the assasin Said killed. They sure looked alike. Sisters?

And also, the whole time shift theory. The flash fowards, are they truly a flash forward or are they just a shift to a parallel place in time? When Ben asked Said if he wanted to protect his friends back on the island, did he also mean protect themselves back on the Island?

Wow, my mind is fried.

[Kam]

***pokes head in.....has no clue what anyone is talkin' about....gives a what's up nod to Kam.....shuts the door***

LJ!!!! thanks amigo!! i'll be joining in the other threads soon as i can catch up!

[GMichael]

Another thing, what's up with the bracelets? Naomi (the girl that Locke knifed), I think that was her name, had the same bracelet at the girl Said killed in in London/Paris or wherever they were. Said really seem to be interested in the bracelet when he took it off Naomi but why, that was in the past. The girl he killed with the same bracelet was a flashforward. Maybe this has something to do with the whole time shift theory? He clearly saw the bracelet on the girl he killed. So Naomi and the female assasin that Said killed are linked somehow.

Also, I'm thinking the redhead researcher that "dropped" onto the Island might be related to the assasin Said killed. They sure looked alike. Sisters?

And also, the whole time shift theory. The flash fowards, are they truly a flash forward or are they just a shift to a parallel place in time? When Ben asked Said if he wanted to protect his friends back on the island, did he also mean protect themselves back on the Island?

Wow, my mind is fried.

Maybe all the members of the "group" hunting Benry all wear that same bracelet. (check the guys too) That's why he's now killing off people who wear them.

[ForeverAutumn]

Maybe all the members of the "group" hunting Benry all wear that same bracelet. (check the guys too) That's why he's now killing off people who wear them.

But Sayid wasn't going to kill that woman last night. He only did it because she shot him first and he realized that she knew more about her employer than he thought. Given the 'relationship' that they had, he must have seen her wearing the bracelet previous to shooting her.

[GMichael]

But Sayid wasn't going to kill that woman last night. He only did it because she shot him first and he realized that she knew more about her employer than he thought. Given the 'relationship' that they had, he must have seen her wearing the bracelet previous to shooting her.

Maybe he doesn't know abouty the bracelet meaning anything yet. He was after her boss who I would guess is part of the same group she's in. Maybe the guys wear something else with the same info or symbols on it.
I don't mean to say that they ae hunting people because of the bracelet. Just that they are hunting people from this group, who also happen to wear it.

[topspeed]

Weren't the initials on the inscription within the bracelet "KC"? Sorry, it's been a few days since I watched it and it's already deleted from my dvr.

[ForeverAutumn]

Weren't the initials on the inscription within the bracelet "KC"? Sorry, it's been a few days since I watched it and it's already deleted from my dvr.

The initials are R.C. or R.G. (http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2008/02/4x03-the-bracelets.php)

[Worf101]

Been DVR'ing and watching late. I LOVE skipping through the hours of commercials to get to the program. Hmmm I've some theories.

1. The bracelets might be like "Nam era bracelts that represent some loved one killed by Ben on the island.

2. The island was once populated by a race of beings with 3 toes I believe. They set up their research station there and did genetic experiments to produce various species, hence the polar bear in the tropics. These experiments took place way in the past hence the fossilzed remains of a Polar Bear with a Dharma collar.

3. When the 3toes left, or were killed by their ape experiment gone awry (man) they left behind powers and anomalies on the Island that can, dialate time, suspend aging, provide limited time travel and a host of other goodies.

4. Fascinated by the idea of this Island, men have searched for it throughout the ages, hence the galleon, the planes of various eras and all the other wrecked craft.

5. The desendants of the original inhabitants i.e. the Dark Haired dude have one job, to protect the island from the grasping monkey boys that are men.

6. The Dharma initiative was the only group of MB's to not only find the island but colonize it in a vain attempt to systematically plumb it's secrets for exploitation.

7. The descendents used Benry to kill the D.I. folks and stave off destruction and exploitation of the island for another half generation.

8. All this went awry when the plane was drawn off course, or deliberately SENT off course by men once again seeking the fountain of youth.

Da Worfster

[GMichael]

Wait a minute. Let me get this straight. You are saying that all human life as we know it started on this island? We are an experiment gone bad started by a bunch of three toed bipeds?:crazy:

[Worf101]

Wait a minute. Let me get this straight. You are saying that all human life as we know it started on this island? We are an experiment gone bad started by a bunch of three toed bipeds?:crazy:
In a word.... Yup.

Any crazier than the other chit goin on on that island?

LOL...

Da "Monkey Boy" Worfster

[kexodusc]

Been DVR'ing and watching late. I LOVE skipping through the hours of commercials to get to the program. Hmmm I've some theories.

1. The bracelets might be like "Nam era bracelts that represent some loved one killed by Ben on the island.

2. The island was once populated by a race of beings with 3 toes I believe. They set up their research station there and did genetic experiments to produce various species, hence the polar bear in the tropics. These experiments took place way in the past hence the fossilzed remains of a Polar Bear with a Dharma collar.

3. When the 3toes left, or were killed by their ape experiment gone awry (man) they left behind powers and anomalies on the Island that can, dialate time, suspend aging, provide limited time travel and a host of other goodies.

4. Fascinated by the idea of this Island, men have searched for it throughout the ages, hence the galleon, the planes of various eras and all the other wrecked craft.

5. The desendants of the original inhabitants i.e. the Dark Haired dude have one job, to protect the island from the grasping monkey boys that are men.

6. The Dharma initiative was the only group of MB's to not only find the island but colonize it in a vain attempt to systematically plumb it's secrets for exploitation.

7. The descendents used Benry to kill the D.I. folks and stave off destruction and exploitation of the island for another half generation.

8. All this went awry when the plane was drawn off course, or deliberately SENT off course by men once again seeking the fountain of youth.

Da Worfster
Worf, you are on to something. My wife and I arrived at a similar conclusion while watching S3 again. It started when Ben gave the speech to lock about imagining a box, and whatever you wanted in that box would be inside. It continues with biblical references in the show, references to paradise, etc.

We think the island is Eden, a Pillar of Creation.

I thought the statue had 4 toes, so maybe the original inhabitants were 4 toed dudes, but other than that, I think you've got it my friend.

[GMichael]

So what happened to all the 3/4 toed dudes? Will they be coming back? Hey! Wait a minute. Do we know how many toes the characters on BSG have?

[ForeverAutumn]

I think that Fred Flintstone only had four toes.

[topspeed]

Been DVR'ing and watching late. I LOVE skipping through the hours of commercials to get to the program. Hmmm I've some theories.

1. The bracelets might be like "Nam era bracelts that represent some loved one killed by Ben on the island.

2. The island was once populated by a race of beings with 3 toes I believe. They set up their research station there and did genetic experiments to produce various species, hence the polar bear in the tropics. These experiments took place way in the past hence the fossilzed remains of a Polar Bear with a Dharma collar.

3. When the 3toes left, or were killed by their ape experiment gone awry (man) they left behind powers and anomalies on the Island that can, dialate time, suspend aging, provide limited time travel and a host of other goodies.

4. Fascinated by the idea of this Island, men have searched for it throughout the ages, hence the galleon, the planes of various eras and all the other wrecked craft.

5. The desendants of the original inhabitants i.e. the Dark Haired dude have one job, to protect the island from the grasping monkey boys that are men.

6. The Dharma initiative was the only group of MB's to not only find the island but colonize it in a vain attempt to systematically plumb it's secrets for exploitation.

7. The descendents used Benry to kill the D.I. folks and stave off destruction and exploitation of the island for another half generation.

8. All this went awry when the plane was drawn off course, or deliberately SENT off course by men once again seeking the fountain of youth.

Da WorfsterThose are very plausible theories. My question to you is where does Jacob fit into all of this and why is it only Ben, Locke, and maybe Hurley can see/hear him?

[Worf101]

I think that Fred Flintstone only had four toes.
Philistine!!!!!! LOL touche.....

Well, its the best theory I could come up with. I don't have a clue who Jacob is unless..

The Toe guys have evolved beyond the physical or can't act in our physical plane of existence anymore and require "intermediaries" to talk to us and explain their bidding, give us warnings etc.. When a dead or distant friend or relative appears (Ecko's brother, Walt etc, Jacks Dad, perhaps Jacob) that's the toe guys trying to communicate in this dimension or physical plane. (Man I'm just full ove it today).

Da Worfster

[GMichael]

Philistine!!!!!! LOL touche.....

Well, its the best theory I could come up with. I don't have a clue who Jacob is unless..

The Toe guys have evolved beyond the physical or can't act in our physical plane of existence anymore and require "intermediaries" to talk to us and explain their bidding, give us warnings etc.. When a dead or distant friend or relative appears (Ecko's brother, Walt etc, Jacks Dad, perhaps Jacob) that's the toe guys trying to communicate in this dimension or physical plane. (Man I'm just full ove it today).

Da Worfster


Seems as good as any other theory I've read so far.

[Worf101]

As to why most folks can't "see" Jacob or the others. I believe you have to be "receptive" to them. Kinda like Dreyfuess in CE3K. Not eveyone can receive the signals. Walt could, Jack can (sometimes) Locke can, when he's not seething, Desmond... I'm not sure about that "brother".

Benry and "da boys" are doing the TG's bidding, keeping our grubby hands off their stash till they can return or finish up what they want. The folks behind the original DI want the Island in the worst way for either immortality or time travel. Either of which would change the world as we know it. The grubber's planted the fake plane so that they could safely kill off all the inhabitants of the Island and take what they want without "prying eyes" looking for them.

God I've GOT to stop drinking my lunch.

Da Worfster

[GMichael]

Maybe we are a type of decedents from these 3 toed island dwellers. Maybe they sliced their genes with a few ape genes and there you have it. Man (and woman) kind. And only the decedents with the recessive genes can see him. Kinda like on Stargate Atlantis.

[ForeverAutumn]

As to why most folks can't "see" Jacob or the others. I believe you have to be "receptive" to them. Kinda like Dreyfuess in CE3K. Not eveyone can receive the signals. Walt could, Jack can (sometimes) Locke can, when he's not seething, Desmond... I'm not sure about that "brother".

Benry and "da boys" are doing the TG's bidding, keeping our grubby hands off their stash till they can return or finish up what they want. The folks behind the original DI want the Island in the worst way for either immortality or time travel. Either of which would change the world as we know it. The grubber's planted the fake plane so that they could safely kill off all the inhabitants of the Island and take what they want without "prying eyes" looking for them.

God I've GOT to stop drinking my lunch.

Da Worfster

Sorry, who exactly are "the grubbers"?

[Kam]

worfster! lovin' this theory... and to supplement on it...

The 4-Toed dudes (4 being the first number in the sequence as well) have evolved beyond this world to the Whispering Voices we've heard throughout the Island.

[ForeverAutumn]

You should all read this. No spoilers just a very interesting interview with Cuse and Lindelof.

"Sometimes, a bracelet is just a bracelet".

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20179125,00.html

[Worf101]

Sorry, who exactly are "the grubbers"?
Da Grubbers are what I've named the outfit that sent Naomi, Ghostbuster, Geekboy and Sky King to the Island to hunt for Ben. They're represented by the skinny Black dude who visited Hugo in the looney bin and put together the team in the first place. Bad men with much power.

Da Worfster

[ForeverAutumn]

Da Grubbers are what I've named the outfit that sent Naomi, Ghostbuster, Geekboy and Sky King to the Island to hunt for Ben. They're represented by the skinny Black dude who visited Hugo in the looney bin and put together the team in the first place. Bad men with much power.

Da Worfster

Thanks. Okay, so I think the opposite of your theory. I think that Ben and whoever he's working with (also a very powerful group) planted the plane to keep the grubbers and rest of the world from looking for the real plane and, thus, stumbling upon the island.

How would the grubbers know to plant the plane? How did they know that there were survivors on the island? They went to the island to look for Ben, but I don't think that they knew that they would find the survivors of 815 on the island. I think that was a surprise.

[ForeverAutumn]

So Aaron is being raised by Kate? WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO CLAIRE? WHERE'S CLAIRE?

Were y'all surprised when Kate said Aaron's name at the end? By that time I knew it was coming. When she told Sawyer that she wasn't pregnant I knew something was up. Then when she said to Jack that she understood why he didn't want to see the baby...it clicked in. I knew at that moment that Kate's "son" was Aaron. Either this show is getting predictable or I'm just in tune by now with what the writers are thinking.

So, Aaron looked to be about two years old. We now have a reference to what time frame we're working in with the flash forward. It's gotta be about 2006 in yesterday's flash forward. Jack is still in pretty good shape. So how far forward, exactly, is the bearded suicidal Jack from the last episode of S3? Or, is this all-together Jack a recovered Jack and the beard is in his past. At least, we now know (or think we know) who Kate was referring to in that last S3 episode when she says, "I've got to go, he'll start wondering where I am".

And what was with Jack's testimony? Only eight of us survived the plane crash. Two died. Why is everyone lying? Purgering themselves in court no less.

I need a coffee...

[GMichael]

So Aaron is being raised by Kate? WHAT

I wasn't expecting that either. Figured it was Sawyer's.

Oh, and only 8 people lived?

[ForeverAutumn]

I wasn't expecting that either. Figured it was Sawyer's.

Oh, and only 8 people lived?

Sorry, I somehow posted before I was finished typing and then had to go back and finish as an edit.

[Groundbeef]

So Aaron is being raised by Kate? WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO CLAIRE? WHERE'S CLAIRE?

Were y'all surprised when Kate said Aaron's name at the end? By that time I knew it was coming. When she told Sawyer that she wasn't pregnant I knew something was up. Then when she said to Jack that she understood why he didn't want to see the baby...it clicked in. I knew at that moment that Kate's "son" was Aaron. Either this show is getting predictable or I'm just in tune by now with what the writers are thinking.

So, Aaron looked to be about two years old. We now have a reference to what time frame we're working in with the flash forward. It's gotta be about 2006 in yesterday's flash forward. Jack is still in pretty good shape. So how far forward, exactly, is the bearded suicidal Jack from the last episode of S3? Or, is this all-together Jack a recovered Jack and the beard is in his past. At least, we now know (or think we know) who Kate was referring to in that last S3 episode when she says, "I've got to go, he'll start wondering where I am".

And what was with Jack's testimony? Only eight of us survived the plane crash. Two died. Why is everyone lying? Purgering themselves in court no less.

I need a coffee...

I didn't put the name, and the baby (Claires) together, but thats a possiblity. I think however, that it's more likely Sawyers baby. Why would Jack be hesitiant to see the baby if it wasn't Kate's? I think somehow its Kates and Sawyers, and Jack doesn't want to see the association.

I love Hurley. "You just Scooby-Doo'ed me didn't you?".

[GMichael]

I didn't put the name, and the baby (Claires) together, but thats a possiblity. I think however, that it's more likely Sawyers baby. Why would Jack be hesitiant to see the baby if it wasn't Kate's? I think somehow its Kates and Sawyers, and Jack doesn't want to see the association.

I love Hurley. "You just Scooby-Doo'ed me didn't you?".

Maybe a decission he made caused Claire to end up dead.

[ForeverAutumn]

Why would Jack be hesitiant to see the baby if it wasn't Kate's? I think somehow its Kates and Sawyers, and Jack doesn't want to see the association.

Here's my theory. First the facts...

1. Only six people from 815 make it off the island.

2. There have been several references made by or to the Oceanic 6 about whether the people who didn't get off the island are still alive.

3. A mother who loves her child doesn't give up her child unless she's in danger or thinks that her child is in danger.

I think that as the last group of the Oceanic 6 were being helicoptered off the island, something bad was going down on the island. Claire thought that she and Aaron were in danger so she shoved Aaron into Kate's arms while Kate was on the helicopter and made Kate promise to take care of him.

Jack doesn't want to see the baby because it's a painful reminder of the people that they left behind and what might have happened to them.

To me, it just doesn't make sense that Kate would have Sawyer's baby and give him the same name as Claire's baby. I think that it has to be Claire's kid.

Of course, what do I really know? Not a damn thing. Aaron could be Kate and Ben's love child for all I know. After all, they did share an intimate breakfast together once. :ihih:

[kexodusc]

Here's my theory. First the facts...

1. Only six people from 815 make it off the island.

2. There have been several references made by or to the Oceanic 6 about whether the people who didn't get off the island are still alive.

3. A mother her loves her child doesn't give up her child unless she's in danger or thinks that her child is in danger.

I think that as the last group of the Oceanic 6 were being helicoptered off the island, something bad was going down on the island. Claire thought that she and Aaron were in danger so she shoved Aaron into Kate's arms while Kate was on the helicopter and made Kate promise to take care of him.

Jack doesn't want to see the baby because it's a painful reminded of the people that they left behind and what might have happened to them.

To me, it just doesn't make sense that Kate would have Sawyer's baby and give him the same name as Claire's baby. I think that it has to be Claire's kid.

Of course, what do I really know? Not a damn thing. Aaron could be Kate and Ben's love child for all I know. After all, they did share an intimate breakfast together once. :ihih:
Pretty sure that's the same baby we've been watching for 3 + years now (which begs the question, how many actual babies has the show had to cast to play the role of Aaron?)

If Kate & Sawyer had a kid and named it Aaron too, well, that's just not very creative.
I wonder how old the kid is and how fast he's aging though? I may have misinterpreted Kate's mom, but I think she said she's been given 6 months to live for 4+ years now. If we assume she was diagnosed with 6 months to live in the same year Kate crashed on the island, there could be a bit of a time lag thingy going on here? Aaron didn't look 4, maybe not even 2 years old? Maybe that's what's freaking Jack out?

[Hyfi]

Here's my theory. First the facts...

1. Only six people from 815 make it off the island.

2. There have been several references made by or to the Oceanic 6 about whether the people who didn't get off the island are still alive.

3. A mother who loves her child doesn't give up her child unless she's in danger or thinks that her child is in danger.

I think that as the last group of the Oceanic 6 were being helicoptered off the island, something bad was going down on the island. Claire thought that she and Aaron were in danger so she shoved Aaron into Kate's arms while Kate was on the helicopter and made Kate promise to take care of him.

Jack doesn't want to see the baby because it's a painful reminder of the people that they left behind and what might have happened to them.

To me, it just doesn't make sense that Kate would have Sawyer's baby and give him the same name as Claire's baby. I think that it has to be Claire's kid.

Of course, what do I really know? Not a damn thing. Aaron could be Kate and Ben's love child for all I know. After all, they did share an intimate breakfast together once. :ihih:


Don't you realize they are reading this? Every time someone guesses too close they re-write next week's script. They have 1700 alternate endings depending on how the guessing goes. Then, the week before the final episode, and we all think we have it figured out they will change it up again and leave us all just as LOST as we are now.:confused5:

[kexodusc]

Okay, just to fuel some more speculation on the whole baby Aaron in the future angle - I just finished watching "Greatest Hits" (2nd last episode of Season3) where Desmond tells Charlie about his vision of him drowning in The Looking Glass station. Desmond also tells Charlie that both Aaron AND Claire get rescued and fly off the island in a helicopter in his vision.

So I'm assuming something happens to Claire on the freighter, or later on?

[JSE]

Do we know who all the Oceanic 6 are yet? I thought we did but I can't remember the 6th.

Jack, Kate, Aaron, Said, Hurley...............?

[GMichael]

Do we know who all the Oceanic 6 are yet? I thought we did but I can't remember the 6th.

Jack, Kate, Aaron, Said, Hurley...............?

Ben? :incazzato:

[JSE]

Ben? :incazzato:


Nope, Ben was not on the flight so there is no way he could be a survivor.

[ForeverAutumn]

Okay, just to fuel some more speculation on the whole baby Aaron in the future angle - I just finished watching "Greatest Hits" (2nd last episode of Season3) where Desmond tells Charlie about his vision of him drowning in The Looking Glass station. Desmond also tells Charlie that both Aaron AND Claire get rescued and fly off the island in a helicopter in his vision.

So I'm assuming something happens to Claire on the freighter, or later on?

Didn't Desmond tell Charlie that, in his vision, he sees Claire and Aaron GET ON the helicopter? Or does he just say that he sees them on a helicopter?

Because if he said that he sees them "get on"...he's already off the island and, presumably, on his way to the freighter. So how could he see them get on the helicopter?

JSE, we don't know who the sixth is yet. I don't think it can be Ben. If there are people out to get Ben then I suspect that Ben would find another, less conspicuous, way to get back to the real world without all the commotion that would have surrounded the return of the Oceanic survivors. He's obviously able to have contact with the world outside of the island, regardless of what he's been telling the Losties.

My guess is that the sixth person is Locke...I also think that's who's in the coffin.

[JSE]

Didn't Desmond tell Charlie that, in his vision, he sees Claire and Aaron GET ON the helicopter? Or does he just say that he sees them on a helicopter?

Because if he said that he sees them "get on"...he's already off the island and, presumably, on his way to the freighter. So how could he see them get on the helicopter?

JSE, we don't know who the sixth is yet. I don't think it can be Ben. If there are people out to get Ben then I suspect that Ben would find another, less conspicuous, way to get back to the real world without all the commotion that would have surrounded the return of the Oceanic survivors. He's obviously able to have contact with the world outside of the island, regardless of what he's been telling the Losties.

My guess is that the sixth person is Locke...I also think that's who's in the coffin.

Cool, I thought maybe I missed someone being the 6th. I'm also guessing the 6th person is in coffin. It will be interesting to see how many "others" are now back in the real world. Did Juliet make it off?

And BTW, where are all the others?

I think the guy who originally recruited Ben is still out there. You know the guy who does not age and used to be the cameraman on Suddenly Susan. I'm thinking he is much more important than has been let on so far.

[kexodusc]

Didn't Desmond tell Charlie that, in his vision, he sees Claire and Aaron GET ON the helicopter? Or does he just say that he sees them on a helicopter?

Because if he said that he sees them "get on"...he's already off the island and, presumably, on his way to the freighter. So how could he see them get on the helicopter?

.
He says he sees them "get on" a helicopter and sees that they are "rescued".

FA, I'm not sure I follow your distinction above...Desmond could see them get on the helicopter without necessarily being on the helicopter himself. Or he could be with them? Are his flashes limited to things he's actually there to experience? Maybe Des comes back in the same helicopter to let them know it's safe?

[GMichael]

Maybe the 6th is one of the two newbie's that were buried alive.

[Groundbeef]

Maybe the 6th is one of the two newbie's that were buried alive.

Yeah, and they use their zombie powers to track down and eat Claire's brains. Kate saves the day by killing the zombies, and "adopting" kate.

Then, Jack feels so guilty that he couldn't "save" Claire, he wants nothing to do with the baby.

[GMichael]

Yeah, and they use their zombie powers to track down and eat Claire's brains. Kate saves the day by killing the zombies, and "adopting" kate.

Then, Jack feels so guilty that he couldn't "save" Claire, he wants nothing to do with the baby.

Well, the island does have heeling powers.

[ForeverAutumn]

He says he sees them "get on" a helicopter and sees that they are "rescued".

FA, I'm not sure I follow your distinction above...Desmond could see them get on the helicopter without necessarily being on the helicopter himself. Or he could be with them? Are his flashes limited to things he's actually there to experience? Maybe Des comes back in the same helicopter to let them know it's safe?

Desmond left the island in the helicopter with Sayid and Naomi's body. He's no longer on the island. Claire is. So, unless Desmond comes back to the island how can he see her get on the helicopter?

Versus...Desmond just sees them on the helicopter. In which case he could be on the freighter already, and see them arrive in the helicopter without actually seeing them get on it.

It's a small point. But it could be important...what does Desmond see and where does he see it from?

Does that make more sense? I don't know why it should...since nothing else does!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Hi.

Just thought I'd pop in to say...



:sleep:

[kexodusc]

Desmond left the island in the helicopter with Sayid and Naomi's body. He's no longer on the island. Claire is. So, unless Desmond comes back to the island how can he see her get on the helicopter?

Versus...Desmond just sees them on the helicopter. In which case he could be on the freighter already, and see them arrive in the helicopter without actually seeing them get on it.

It's a small point. But it could be important...what does Desmond see and where does he see it from?

Does that make more sense? I don't know why it should...since nothing else does!

Yep, gotcha...You're thinking from the perspective that Desmond already got on the helicopter and wouldn't be on the island to see Claire get on now too...Could very well be.

If the show's consistent, Desmond is present during all his visions so he'll make his way back and see Claire get on the helicopter as he said to Charlie. Which makes sense, the chopper will have to get back to the island, so I guess he's going to be on board when it does.

[GMichael]

Is Aaron among the "Oceanic Six?"

[JSE]

Is Aaron among the "Oceanic Six?"

You know, that's a good question. We are not certain how he was "presented" to the rest of the world. Did kate say he was born on the island? Did they say he was he born after they got off? Did Ben bring him back unknown to the rest of the world?

Would be technically be a "Oceanic 6" since he was not born at the time of the crash? Just thinking......

Maybe there are still 2 of the 6 left to be revealed?

[ForeverAutumn]

Yep, gotcha...You're thinking from the perspective that Desmond already got on the helicopter and wouldn't be on the island to see Claire get on now too...Could very well be.

If the show's consistent, Desmond is present during all his visions so he'll make his way back and see Claire get on the helicopter as he said to Charlie. Which makes sense, the chopper will have to get back to the island, so I guess he's going to be on board when it does.

Because nothing on Lost is ever easy, here's another scenario...Claire and Aaron get to the boat. But then there's another helicopter to take them back to the real world. Des sees them get on the second one.

[kexodusc]

Well, if it were easy, Des would see them both get on a helicopter, but one of the freighter folk throws Claire into the ocean...or she gets all Charlie-sick and throws herself in...
I figure if I throw enough guesses at the wall, one's bound to stick.

[ForeverAutumn]

You know, that's a good question. We are not certain how he was "presented" to the rest of the world. Did kate say he was born on the island? Did they say he was he born after they got off? Did Ben bring him back unknown to the rest of the world?

Would be technically be a "Oceanic 6" since he was not born at the time of the crash? Just thinking......

Maybe there are still 2 of the 6 left to be revealed?

One of my collegues and I were discussing this situation and the timeline at work.

Fact: Kate was on the plane with a federal marshal and was not preggers.
Fact: It would be known that Kate was not preggers and that if she was, it would have to be very early in the pregnancy as there was no evidence of it. So, she could not have given birth while on the island.
Fact: Kate would not be able to convince anyone that Aaron was her biological child.

So, here's what I'm thinking...at Kate's court case Jack said that there were eight people who survived the crash but two of them later died. My guess is that they told the world that Claire survived the crash and Aaron was born on the island but that Claire died giving birth to him and Kate took over as his mother. So far, Kate is the only female in the Oceanic 6. If Claire, Rose or Sun isn't one of the 6, then the rest of the world would believe that Kate was the only female survivor and, therefore, the logical choice to replace Claire as a mother figure.

[ForeverAutumn]

...or she gets all Charlie-sick and throws herself in...

LMAO!

[JSE]

One of my collegues and I were discussing this situation and the timeline at work.

Fact: Kate was on the plane with a federal marshal and was not preggers.
Fact: It would be known that Kate was not preggers and that if she was, it would have to be very early in the pregnancy as there was no evidence of it. So, she could not have given birth while on the island.
Fact: Kate would not be able to convince anyone that Aaron was her biological child.



Ah, but we don't really know how long they really were on the island. The only real evidence we have is Aaron. He looks about 2-ish. Plenty of time for Kate to get preggers and have a child if they were not rescued for maybe a year or so. That still leaves about a year back in the real world before trial. We are just assuming they got off via the ship that is currently out there. If so, that does not leave much of a story left. I'm guessing the ship will leave and the researchers get stuck on the Island. What if the person in the coffin is little asian guy who tried to blackmale Ben?

And what about the whole time difference thing displayed by the scientists experiment with the missle being launched from the ship. It lost 30 or so minutes. Convert that for the time they have been on the island and it might be much longer in "real world" time. The world might have thought they were gone for 4 or 5 years when it's really only been a few months on the island.

Dang it, there goes my head again.

Must rest,


JSE

[Rich-n-Texas]

I think 3LB summed up this TV show best when he said this (and I hope he doesn't mind me taking this quote from the other thread FA started):

Finally, a TV show that rivals Irwin Allen's TV shows for plot-as-you-go writing, implausible scenarios, and wild-assed tangents.

All that's missing are shiny aliens with mysterious powers (repleat with capes, silver make-up and those goofy helmets).
This post had me rolling in the aisle, even though there probably weren't too many other fans of the show that appreciated the humor in it. :lol:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Awww, come on guys, I was only kidding. :ihih:

[Worf101]

I remember Irwin Allen quite fondly... "Land of the Giants", "The Time Tunnel" (my fave), "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" etc... good stuff there.

I had an inkling that Arron was there with Kate. Jack did something that either got Claire killed or she's still on the Island. In thinking of it all I doubt that the guy in the coffin was part of the Oceanic 6, there would've been a hell of a lot more press coverage if he were.


Da Worfster

[kexodusc]

Jack did something that either got Claire killed or she's still on the Island. In thinking of it all I doubt that the guy in the coffin was part of the Oceanic 6, there would've been a hell of a lot more press coverage if he were.


Da Worfster

Fine display of deductive reasoning, my Klingon friend...I have to agree with you.
Maybe Jack's all messed up over Aaron/Claire because he somehow finds out Claire is his step-sister? Which makes Aaron his step-nephew?

[JSE]

I had an inkling that Arron was there with Kate. Jack did something that either got Claire killed or she's still on the Island.

Remember, Jack and Claire are half siblings! They just don't know it yet in island time. That would make Aaron his half nephew! Maybe Aaron is a reminder of his father?


In thinking of it all I doubt that the guy in the coffin was part of the Oceanic 6, there would've been a hell of a lot more press coverage if he were.

That's a great point! I'm still thinking it's Miles/Niles or whatever his name is.

Question, do the rest of the O6 know that Ben is alive and back in the real world? I mean, other than Said. Maybe Ben "is" in the coffin as far as the rest of the world in concerned. I just can't remember if Kate, Jack or Hurley have mentioned Ben's existence since they got off the island.

Edit: Ben told Said they are protecting the O6 the the presumed survivors who stayed behind. Ben is probably really only concerned with protecting himself and the island.

[JSE]

Fine display of deductive reasoning, my Klingon friend...I have to agree with you.
Maybe Jack's all messed up over Aaron/Claire because he somehow finds out Claire is his step-sister? Which makes Aaron his step-nephew?


Dang it, Kex! You beat me to it! :dita:

[GMichael]

Remember, Jack and Claire are half siblings! They just don't know it yet in island time. That would make Aaron his half nephew! Maybe Aaron is a reminder of his father?



That's a great point! I'm still thinking it's Miles/Niles or whatever his name is.

Question, do the rest of O6 know that Ben is alive and back in the real world? I mean, other than Said. Maybe Ben "is" in the coffin as far as the rest of the world in concerned. I just can't remember if Kate, Jack or Hurley have mentioned Ben's existence since they got off the island.

And Jack never did view whoever it was. It might be that Ben is supposed to be in there but not. No one showed up to say, "Hey, that's not Ben." Everyone may THINK it's Ben but it's really some guy in a red t-shirt.

[JSE]

some guy in a red t-shirt.

:confused5:

[GMichael]

They are always the first to die on Star Trek.

[ForeverAutumn]

In thinking of it all I doubt that the guy in the coffin was part of the Oceanic 6, there would've been a hell of a lot more press coverage if he were. Da Worfster

An excellent, excellent point. Maybe it's Doctor Bright Eyes. Or, Richard, as Ben like to call him (the guy who recruited Julliet). I think that he's going become more important to this story than he has been so far.

[Groundbeef]

Dang it, Kex! You beat me to it! :dita:

Now, Claire just needs to grow some of them honey bun braids, and Jack needs to find a lightsaber. Couple of ewoks and we got ourselves a Star Wars reunion tour!

[ForeverAutumn]

Now, Claire just needs to grow some of them honey bun braids, and Jack needs to find a lightsaber. Couple of ewoks and we got ourselves a Star Wars reunion tour!


Featuring Charlie the Hobbit as Yoda. :lol:

[Kam]

ok, caught up on my required reading. and want to add this to all the jumble:

the transition between that parking lot scene of jack saying he loves kate, kate saying we'll get that coffee/whatever AFTER you come see the baby... TO... jack's manic, beard wearing phone call to kate to meet him at the airport.

sonsabiatches are giving us so many different fill in points!!

Far Past (dharma footage, one-armed doc film, Ben on the island as a kid with doc. bright eyes)

Past (our losties backstories pre aussieland)

Present (the Island.. present? or future? or parallel universe? or who the flock knows?)

Future (immediately off the island)

Far Future (the Jack/Kate encounter at the airport, is this the furthest into the future we've gone? or perhaps the sayid/ben relationship is in this time frame?)

[Kam]

checking cubit and sledgeweb sites for the timelines of events, trying to think what was the furthest into the past we've gone and the furthest into the future....

[Kam]

ok im on a roll with the crazy theories...

could the mystery of the island be a small sample of exactly how the story is being told to us? i.e the golden mean. the concentric circles looping in on itself to infinity (theoretically?)

[Kam]

(and i didn't make 3 separate posts above just to try and have season 4 outdo our season 2 and 3 threads for most popular thread ever. lol :p but this post is for that purpose. mwuahahaha.)

(edit: holy crap this thread is already at #4 ALL TIME on the list! woo hoo! go lost fanatics!)

[Worf101]

Cut back on the coffee.....

LOL, no please, I love "stream of conciousness" expository. I was on a similar roll about a week ago. I DVR my "Lost" episodes so that I can fast forward past the commercials. You've some interesting macro theories there my friend. Good to have you back.

Da Worfster

[ForeverAutumn]

It's official. The writer's of Lost have blown my mind.

I don't even know where to begin talking about this one. I'm still pondering. But I have a question...Did Rousseau say that she arrived on the Black Rock? Was it her ship, or just a ship that she found on the island?

Also, remember the chick Sayid killed a couple weeks ago? Well, I'm now thinking that her employer is Penny's father. Penny knows about the island and has been looking for Desmond for three years. How and what does she know????

[Worf101]

Well brother... wasn't that an interesting trip down the old rabbit hole. So all our theories on time travel and dialation around that Island have been proven correct. Well that's one thread tied up. I think that there's more to the Penny Desmond back story. Why did she start looking for him in earnest 3 years BEFORE the phone call? Methinks there was another slippage at an earlier date.

Penny's Dad, being the evil robber baron/bastard that he is. Wants that Island, he wants to live forever so he, and a consortium of evil, is looking for it. We'll find out over time that folks on that Island not only heal quickly but never age, relative to the outside world. Many rich and powerful people would kill for that...

Da Worfster

[kexodusc]

That was one pretty sick ass episode!!!
Man, was I surprised when I saw that picture of the Black Rock...what is going on?

Did Rousseau say that she arrived on the Black Rock? Was it her ship, or just a ship that she found on the island?
Russo was on a science ship and didn't arrive on the Black Rock, but she found it years ago.

Did anyone else catch the bit about Hanso being the guy that ended up getting the Captain's log from the ship too? It's all coming together, one web at a time.

[GMichael]

That's one heck of a big can of worms they opened up last night. Mental worm holes in time & space?

[ForeverAutumn]

Okay kids, I've been perusing Sledgeweb's site and here are a few of the things being bantered around.

1. Ben told Michael and Walt to go 325 degrees. But the map to the freighter that Lapidus had gave directions of 305. Raising the age old question...Where are Micheal and Walt (and why has there been no mention of them in relation to the Oceanic 6)?

2. Remember the old lady who sold Desmond the engagement ring? She knew the future. She knew the guy with the red shoes would die (shoes instead of a shirt, hmmmm). She also told Desmond that he was not supposed to buy the ring? Is she part of this whole time travel thing?

3. Future-Dan tells Desmond to tell Past-Dan to set the machine to 2.342. Anyone recognize those numbers... 23, 42?

4. Someone on Sledgeweb's site thought that Hanso was the name of the Captian of the Black Rock. Can anyone check their recording today to confirm that? I probably won't have a chance to look at it until tomorrow or Sunday.

And here's a question of my own. Why would Eloise the rat have died from not having a Constant? Wasn't she still in her own cage and similar surroundings?

[ForeverAutumn]

I just discovered that the episode airing on March 20, called Meet Kevin Johnson, is Micheal centric. Since we appear to be working with flash-forwards and not flash-backs this season, maybe we'll finally get some answers about what the hell happened to Michael and Walt.

Then again, it's the last episode before the break...so you know it's going to leave us hanging.

ARGHHHH, and I just realized that I'll be on a plane on my way home from Vegas that night. I sure hope they have those little personal TVs on the plane. If they do, I wonder how many TVs will be set to Lost. Oh, I wonder what time zone they'll be in. I may have to do my own version of time travel that night. I just hope that I don't get a nose bleed. :eek: :crazy: :arf: :yikes:

[Hyfi]

Well brother... wasn't that an interesting trip down the old rabbit hole.
Da Worfster

Nice reference to a great set of DVDs. I wonder how many here have watched it all.

[Groundbeef]

As far as dear old Eloise, I think she died because she was a rat. Really wouldn't matter much that she had a "constant" (location) because she was a rat. Little mental capacity to deal with the info overload.

That being said, I haven't been that involved in a Lost episode since I can't remember when. I kept hoping Desomond would get things worked out. Glad he did.

This season is shaping up awesome. I knew I loved this show!

[topspeed]

If I had a beer for every time I said "What the Hell?" last night, I'd be very hung over right now!

Help me out guys, the painting of the Black Rock is the ship found on the island, right?

Also, if the island has time travel ability, how does that explain how Mr. Eko's brother's plane ends up in the south pacific?

Why did Penny start looking for Des again when she made it perfectly clear she wanted to make a clean break. What was her father referring to when he noted that at one time, Penny would have married him but now, well...he'll let Penny tell him? Tell him what?!?

When Dan asked Jack if Des had been exposed to any radiation or electromagnetism, Jack said no and yet he knew Des was in the hatch when it exploded. Is he trying to conceal information because he doesn't trust Dan or because he simply forgot?

I have no answers from that episode, only a lot of questions.

[kexodusc]

I agree with Beefy, Eloise died cause she just didn't have the mental capacity to endure the shock - Humans are mentally tougher. And remember Dan Faraday (whom I shall refer to as uF) said the constant had to be big and important and trigger some sort of emotional attachment. For Dan, Desmond represents the link to his life's work, for Desmond it was Penny, nuff said. A bit of cheese and a maze just doesn't have the same impact.

[ForeverAutumn]

If I had a beer for every time I said "What the Hell?" last night, I'd be very hung over right now!

And yet, I still have a headache!


Help me out guys, the painting of the Black Rock is the ship found on the island, right?

Yes.


Also, if the island has time travel ability, how does that explain how Mr. Eko's brother's plane ends up in the south pacific?

It doesn't. That would be too easy.


Why did Penny start looking for Des again when she made it perfectly clear she wanted to make a clean break. What was her father referring to when he noted that at one time, Penny would have married him but now, well...he'll let Penny tell him? Tell him what?!?

Tell him that she doesn't want to be involved with him anymore. If Daddy told Desmond that Penny didn't want to be with him Des wouldn't listen. But if Penny tells him herself, it has more impact.


When Dan asked Jack if Des had been exposed to any radiation or electromagnetism, Jack said no and yet he knew Des was in the hatch when it exploded. Is he trying to conceal information because he doesn't trust Dan or because he simply forgot?

I think that Jack's not going to give out any answers until he gets some first. Jack doesn't trust the Helicopter 4. I also think that the Losties feel somewhat proprietary about the strange elements of the island. They know by now that there is something going on, but they don't understand what. Until they can put the pieces of the puzzle together and they know exactly what they're dealing with they aren't going to give away any secrets. In their own way, they're trying to protect the island. They're just not sure what they're protecting or who they're protecting it from.


I have no answers from that episode, only a lot of questions.

The story of any Lost addict's life...

[GMichael]

I found a few possible answers on another site and wanted to share. Be warned though. Some people would call this a spoiler. I didn't see anything other than a few theories, but you may not agree.



Here is the whole article:

THE LOST CHEAT SHEET!
SEASON 4, EPISODE 5: ''THE CONSTANT''
This week, no crazy non sequiturs, dubious pop culture tangents, or flat-out lame jokes. Only helpful information. Honest! Today's cheat sheet is indebted to two books: Warped Passages: Unraveling the Mysteries of the Universe's Hidden Dimensions, by Lisa Randall; and The New Time Travelers, by David Toomey.

Dedicated to all you wormholes out there. You know who you are.

THE HATCH
A bunker buried in the jungle, properly known as the Swan, and part of the Dharma Initiative, a Utopian science outfit financed by the Hanso Foundation. It was allegedly created to study the Island's unique electromagnetic fluctuations. In the finale of season 2, the Hatch either exploded or imploded; regardless, it went bye-bye, leaving nothing but a charred crater behind. Desmond, Locke, and Mr. Eko were all inside the Hatch during this destruction event. They, too, should have been blown to smithereens. Instead, Desmond woke up naked, Locke woke up mute, and Mr. Eko woke up delirious. To this day, I have been convinced that Lost has not given us a satisfying explanation for how those three survived. But yesterday, a theory came to mind. First, we must revisit:

''FLASHES BEFORE YOUR EYES''
A pivotal season 3 episode in which it was revealed that after Desmond turned the failsafe key, he experienced something like time travel; his Island-present consciousness downloaded into his flashback-past self. Even more odd, when his mind returned to the Island present, Desmond came back with ''flashes'' of the future. Did Desmond's consciousness simultaneously expand forward and backward in time, then reverse course and contract back into his head? Does super-electromagnetic Desmond have the ability to omnisciently experience the arc of his existence (or his ''worldline,'' to use a word coined by Lost-cited egghead Hermann Minkowski) all at once, but chooses not to, or at least, only in manageable ''flashes''? Perhaps tonight's episode will offer illumination. During his ''Flashes'' flashback, Desmond learned from a mysterious lady named Ms. Hawking two things about the nature of Lost time (assuming that she was being truthful, of course): Both free will and predestination are at work. Hawking warned Desmond that if he proposed to Penny, ''every single one of us will die.'' But then, after they witnessed a man's death, Ms. Hawking told Desmond that despite knowing the man's fate, she was powerless to stop it; the universe would have found a different way to kill him. This brings us to:

DAVID LEWIS
David Lewis is the name of Charlotte Staples Lewis' father. (We know this from when Ben ran down Charlotte's bio at the end of ''Confirmed Dead.'') David Lewis is also a famous thinker in the field of physics. During the 1970s, he gave a series of lectures about the topic of time travel. One of his most important contributions was a response to the problem known as ''The Grandfather Paradox.'' This is the idea that a time traveler can't go back in time and kill his grandpa because it would create a new timeline in which the time traveler would have never come into existence. Lewis resolved this paradox by simply suggesting that in a world where time travel would be possible, creating paradox would be impossible; the cosmos would basically work against you and execute what Desmond would call...

''COURSE CORRECTION'' PART ONE
Example: Charlie. But two things about Charlie's death: (1) Fate technically didn't kill Charlie. Remember what happened: Desmond flashed on a new version of Charlie's death — one that offered a future that was beneficial to all castaways. Heroically, Charlie embraced this fate. Charlie exercised his free will and essentially killed himself. (2) Regardless, Fate got what it wanted. Which brings me back to the mystery of how Desmond, Locke, and Eko survived the Hatch implosion. Were they saved by ''The Grandfather Paradox''? Did Fate spare them because they just weren't supposed to die yet? Maybe. And if so, it would be awfully convenient; Lost could basically get away with any leap in narrative logic by chalking it up to ''course correction.'' Ironically, this is exactly the complaint that many physicists have to paradox theories like the one suggested by David Lewis. Which brings us to...


''COURSE CORRECTION'' PART TWO
Igor Novikov was a physicist whose name is attached to the most famous theory addressing time-travel paradox: the Novikov Self-Consistency Principle. Similar to Lewis, Novikov advocated ''course correction.'' But many others — including Matt Visser, who coined the phrase ''Novikov Consistency Conspiracy'' — opposed Novikov's articulation because it implied the work of supernatural agencies. A religious person (like Charlotte's namesake, C.S. Lewis) might call this agency ''God.'' An open-minded scientific person might call it ''Maxwell's Demon,'' named after James Clerk Maxwell's tricky thought experiment, discussed in this space a couple weeks ago. Novikov himself called it by another name, a name connected directly to Lost: ''Jinn,'' a word from the Koran for a category of formless magical entities that defy the laws of space-time. (The Monster, for example, could be a ''Jinn.'') But I might suggest a fourth candidate, one that our old X-Files friend Dana Scully would find hard to swallow but at least puts us in a plausibly human arena: an honest-to-God conspiracy, executed by Cancer Man-ish agents like Ms. Hawking, Brother Jerome (Desmond's former monastery boss), and many others. The Lostverse is populated by people struggling to avert catastrophic paradox and perhaps battling each other over the proper form of ''course correction.'' This raises the question: How would these flesh-and-blood ''demons'' know the future? Answer:

THE ORCHID
The Orchid is the name of another Dharma Initiative station that we have not yet seen, but will, soon. (Next week, to be exact.) A version of the Orchid's orientation film was released last summer by the producers of Lost; you can see it on YouTube or at abc.com. The film suggests that Dharma was trying to harness the unique energies of the Island in order to conduct experiments in time travel. It mentions something called the Casimir Effect, which points toward the kind of energy that Dharma was harnessing. What would negative energy be good for? Growing and maintaining a most volatile distortion in the fabric of reality, or ''Minkowski space-time,'' a distortion known as:

A WORMHOLE
I bow before the feet of many other Lost theorists, including J. Wood at powells.com, who've brought wormholes into the Lost conversation much earlier than me. If you're a sci-fi nut, you know all about wormholes, a theoretical phenomenon in space-time that can connect one point in time to another. Novikov speculated that wormholes could mature into ''natural time machines.'' If the Island is basically ground zero for a small, localized wormhole, then it's very possible that Dharma was to create a kind of quantum switchboard, connecting calls between Island present and the future or the past. I wonder if the name ''Miles Straum'' is another clue nodding in the direction of wormhole theory. The producers say ''Miles Straum'' was meant to sound like ''maelstrom,'' which is a massive, monstrous whirlpool in the middle of an ocean. Not a bad analogy for a wormhole in the South Pacific, eh?

+++

I know what you're thinking. You mean to tell me that I gotta know all this noodle-cooking stuff to understand Lost? My answer is this: If any of this is accurate, I'm betting it'll probably be explained just as generally, if not more so, as I did here. But here's the curious thing about all this. Science is supposed to be the process of making the unknowable knowable, right? This is essentially the argument against supernatural forces: They're just phenomena we haven't explained yet, phenomena like Lost's Monster, ghosts, and various other ''jinns.'' But the current direction of physics suggests that science has gone so far down the rabbit hole that they're coming back to where they started: to a view of reality marked by inherent unknowability. Concepts like ''braneworld cosmology'' advocate the existence of dimensions embedded in our reality that defy natural order. I wouldn't be surprised if, at the end of the day, Lost rallies around Edward Mitten's ''M theory,'' a unified theory of reality that incorporates multiple dimensions (10, to be exact) plus a bonus 11th dimension marked by supergravity. What does the ''M'' stand for? Witten never said. It could mean ''magic,'' ''membrane,'' or ''mystery.'' In fact, Lisa Randall offers the idea that the ''M'' means ''Missing theory.''

Sounds like Lost to me.

[topspeed]

White on grey. :rolleyes:

Friday Happy Hour start a bit early Mike?

[GMichael]

White on grey. :rolleyes:

Friday Happy Hour start a bit early Mike?

So you have to work to read it. I didn't want to upset anyone with something they might feel was a spoiler.

[ForeverAutumn]

It's very interesting how he linked things together. And it reminded me of something...

Remember when Desmond kept saving Charlie's life? Until he finally said to Charlie, "you have to die this time".

Could Desmond be playing with time looking for a specific outcome? Charlie dies by being hit by lightning...but that doesn't get Desmond off the island. Somehow time resets. Then Charlie dies by drowning while trying to save Claire. But that doesn't get Desmond off the island. Time resets. Finally, Desmond finds an ending that he likes. Charlie drowns in the Hydra station. That gets Desmond off the island.

Desmond tells Charlie that he has to die so that Claire can get off the island, but really Desmond is trying to save himself. I don't think that Desmond is that devious. I just think that perhaps, subconciously, he's looking for a specific outcome. Otherwise, why would Charlie have had all those near misses that Desmond and his visions had to save him from?

Now, what if Jack is time travelling too. What if his decline into the bearded, drug addicted Jack is because he starts having his own memory issues and starts going crazy. His meeting with Kate where he says that he has to go back is because whatever outcome Desmond forced isn't the outcome that Jack needs. (Could Kate be Jack's Constant?)

I'm just thinking out loud here. And I think I just pulled a muscle in my brain.

[GMichael]

It's very interesting how he linked things together. And it reminded me of something...

Remember when Desmond kept saving Charlie's life? Until he finally said to Charlie, "you have to die this time".

Could Desmond be playing with time looking for a specific outcome? Charlie dies by being hit by lightning...but that doesn't get Desmond off the island. Somehow time resets. Then Charlie dies by drowning while trying to save Claire. But that doesn't get Desmond off the island. Time resets. Finally, Desmond finds an ending that he likes. Charlie drowns in the Hydra station. That gets Desmond off the island.

Desmond tells Charlie that he has to die so that Claire can get off the island, but really Desmond is trying to save himself. I don't think that Desmond is that devious. I just think that perhaps, subconciesly, he's looking for a specific outcome. Otherwise, why would Charlie have had all those near misses that Desmond had to save him from?

Now, what if Jack is time travelling too. What if his decline into the bearded, drug addicted Jack is because he starts having his own memory issues and starts going crazy. His meeting with Kate where he says that he has to go back is because whatever outcome Desmond forced isn't the outcome that Jack needs.

I'm just thinking out loud here. And I think I just pulled a muscle in my brain.

Do they call you muscle-head?:idea:

[Kam]

wohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i had an idea... it's prolly bigger in my head than it is on paper but here goes:

what if all the connections everyone has so, seemingly randomly, from the past are, in fact, not random at all but related to this whole idea of being each other's "Constants."

ok, yah now that i re-read that above it doesn't seem to be that important.

oh yeah, and penny's address was from the Numbers. lol

ooooo so maybe the Numbers is the Constant? the numbers link that crazy dude in Hurley's psych ward back and forth from his own past and future.

ok just rambling, stream of consciousness again.. lol

[kexodusc]

ooooo so maybe the Numbers is the Constant? the numbers link that crazy dude in Hurley's psych ward back and forth from his own past and future.

ok just rambling, stream of consciousness again.. lol

My wife must be tuned to the same mental frequencies you are...she just told me the numbers have something to do with Course Correction and all the fate/coincidence we're seeing here...seems plausible.

[Groundbeef]

My wife must be tuned to the same mental frequencies you are...she just told me the numbers have something to do with Course Correction and all the fate/coincidence we're seeing here...seems plausible.

Just think how weird it would have been in season 1 if they had found a Flutterscotch instead of a Polar Bear.

[ForeverAutumn]

A very interesting article that includes a comparison of Lost to The Empire Strikes Back. There's no spoilers, just lots of speculation.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20182393,00.html

[kexodusc]

Okay - I thought there were suppose to be NO more flashbacks - everything was a flashforward?
That said, it was pretty interesting to see a bit of Juliet's story.

That Ben is one aweful, derranged nutbar. "You're mine" Holy abusive relationship, Batman.

As for Juliet...whore!

[ForeverAutumn]

Okay - I thought there were suppose to be NO more flashbacks - everything was a flashforward?
That said, it was pretty interesting to see a bit of Juliet's story.

That Ben is one aweful, derranged nutbar. "You're mine" Holy abusive relationship, Batman.

As for Juliet...whore!

LOL. Poor Juliet. Brought to the island under false pretenses (6 months, huh?). Falls in love with a married man (who can blame her, Goodwin was pretty handsome), and then has nutbar, stalker Ben to deal with. "Because you're mine." :yikes: This woman only wanted to help people have babies but what a fine mess she got herself into.

No big surprise that Penny's daddy is the man behind the freighter. I think that we were all expecting that one. And it may help to explain why Penny knows about the island.

But here's what I don't understand. Why did Ben want Juliet to kill Faraday and Charlotte? The gas would have been released and everyone on the island would presumably have died. But what would that solve? The freighter still knows where the island is. Widmore could still get to it and exploit it. What would killing everyone solve? Unless, the gas is a cover-up for something bigger. Like first the gas kills everyone and then the island blows up. Or the gas lingers so that the island become uninhabitable. Or it closes the wormhole so that no-one can get in. Or something.

AND...how did Faraday and Charlotte know about the gas? How did they know where to find it and how long they had to stop it?

AND...when will Locke learn? He's so desperate for answers that he's willing to do just about anything to get them. He just keeps selling his soul to Ben over and over and over again.

[Groundbeef]

LOL. Poor Juliet. Brought to the island under false pretenses (6 months, huh?). Falls in love with a married man (who can blame her, Goodwin was pretty handsome), and then has nutbar, stalker Ben to deal with. "Because you're mine." :yikes: This woman only wanted to help people have babies but what a fine mess she got herself into.

No big surprise that Penny's daddy is the man behind the freighter. I think that we were all expecting that one. And it may help to explain why Penny knows about the island.

But here's what I don't understand. Why did Ben want Juliet to kill Faraday and Charlotte? The gas would have been released and everyone on the island would presumably have died. But what would that solve? The freighter still knows where the island is. Widmore could still get to it and exploit it. What would killing everyone solve? Unless, the gas is a cover-up for something bigger. Like first the gas kills everyone and then the island blows up. Or the gas lingers so that the island become uninhabitable. Or it closes the wormhole so that no-one can get in. Or something.

AND...how did Faraday and Charlotte know about the gas? How did they know where to find it and how long they had to stop it?

AND...when will Locke learn? He's so desperate for answers that he's willing to do just about anything to get them. He just keeps selling his soul to Ben over and over and over again.

My favorite of the night:

Sawyer"What the hell are you doing"
Ben"See you at dinner time boys"

Laughed out loud. Ben is pretty creepy though.

Not sure about the gas. I think he wanted to kill all of 815. Then there are no survivors, hence "No miracle". No one survived the crash. Locke cant talk about being able to walk. The cancer is gone from Bernice's wife etc.

I think Ben had a gas mask hidden somewhere. And I think he has visions like Desomond. Only he can control them better.

[kexodusc]

Only he can control them better.

My wife said the same thing a few weeks ago. At first I thought no way, but now I think you both may be right. It's limited in its usefulness but it would come in handy.

"Ben is exactly where he wants to be".

Hmmm.

[kexodusc]

But here's what I don't understand. Why did Ben want Juliet to kill Faraday and Charlotte? The gas would have been released and everyone on the island would presumably have died. But what would that solve? The freighter still knows where the island is. Widmore could still get to it and exploit it. What would killing everyone solve? Unless, the gas is a cover-up for something bigger. Like first the gas kills everyone and then the island blows up. Or the gas lingers so that the island become uninhabitable. Or it closes the wormhole so that no-one can get in. Or something.
Faraday and Charlotte know to much and are threats. Ben wants them dead. Simple as that. Plus, he probably had an idea that they were going to destroy his gas weapon.


AND...how did Faraday and Charlotte know about the gas? How did they know where to find it and how long they had to stop it?
Remember last week - that book from the Black Rock belonged to the estate of Dr. Hanso...who I believe was heavily involved in the Dharma Initiative. They obviously have some information about the island.


AND...when will Locke learn? He's so desperate for answers that he's willing to do just about anything to get them. He just keeps selling his soul to Ben over and over and over again.
Lock is patient - following Ben is his best way to get more answers. The back and forth game of who's using who continues.

[Brett A]

So last night in the trailer for next week's episode, it said we'd find out who the final "Oceanic Six" are (is?).
So far, during the flash-forwards we've seen six people from the island.
Ben
Sayid
Jack
Hugo
Kate
Erin
Who are they not counting? and why? Likely it's Ben, huh? He'd likely slither back to the mainland unknown. But it could be Erin depending on what pretenses he was brought back to the mainland. And what about Claire? Oh, I wish I had the time travel thing down myself.

[ForeverAutumn]

So last night in the trailer for next week's episode, it said we'd find out who the final "Oceanic Six" are (is?).
So far, during the flash-forwards we've seen six people from the island.
Ben
Sayid
Jack
Hugo
Kate
Erin
Who are they not counting? and why? Likely it's Ben, huh? He'd likely slither back to the mainland unknown. But it could be Erin depending on what pretenses he was brought back to the mainland. And what about Claire? Oh, I wish I had the time travel thing down myself.

Who else here thought that the opening scene last night was a flash-forward and that Juliet was off the island and seeing a therapist? When Juliet talked about not wanting to be a celebrity, I was thinking that she was one of the Oceanic 6 and wondering how, when her name was not on the manifest. I'm sure that's what the writers wanted me to think. Anyone else make that same mistake?

Brett, I don't think that Ben counts (and welcome to the Lost thread!).

Oh, AND what the hell was with with Ben saying to Locke that he would tell him who Ben's man on the boat was but NOT TELLING US! Although I didn't think so at first, I'm convinced now that it's Michael.

[Groundbeef]

Lock is patient - following Ben is his best way to get more answers. The back and forth game of who's using who continues.

Locke is patient, but not a mental match for Ben. Ben is much better at the subtle art of manipulation. Locke isn't nearly as crafty, nor intellegent. He is good at the short game (ie short term gain, at the expense of the long term consequences).

Ben however looks down the road (like a chess game) and is constantly 2-3 moves ahead of Locke. His off hand comment of "I always have a plan" was right on the money.

Locke may have gotten the "information" that he thought he needed. But what did Ben really give up? Nothing really. And now he has Sawyer, and Hurley second guessing Locke. He is an expert at subterfuge, and confusion.

Locke doesn't stand a chance. Although luck does play a part (he didn't die when shot etc). I think Ben will win the day.

[Brett A]

Who else here thought that the opening scene last night was a flash-forward and that Juliet was off the island and seeing a therapist? ... Anyone else make that same mistake?
Yep, I did.


Brett, I don't think that Ben counts (and welcome to the Lost thread!).
I figure as much too, but it's better (and more fun) not to feel too safe in my assumptions. (and it's good to be here)


Oh, AND what the hell was with with Ben saying to Locke that he would tell him who Ben's man on the boat was but NOT TELLING US! Although I didn't think so at first, I'm convinced now that it's Michael.
I think Michael is the man on the boat also. last nights trailer said we'd be surprised at who we'll see next week.

[kexodusc]

Locke is patient, but not a mental match for Ben. Ben is much better at the subtle art of manipulation. Locke isn't nearly as crafty, nor intellegent. He is good at the short game (ie short term gain, at the expense of the long term consequences).

Ben however looks down the road (like a chess game) and is constantly 2-3 moves ahead of Locke. His off hand comment of "I always have a plan" was right on the money.

Locke may have gotten the "information" that he thought he needed. But what did Ben really give up? Nothing really. And now he has Sawyer, and Hurley second guessing Locke. He is an expert at subterfuge, and confusion.

Locke doesn't stand a chance. Although luck does play a part (he didn't die when shot etc). I think Ben will win the day.

Locke's got a strong character and will to survive. He's focused. Cunning. That will can easily overcome the knowledge and resource advantage Ben has had. It already has. Bit by bit, things are going badly for Ben. And despite his best efforts, Locke keeps thwarting his plans.

Ben doesn't stand a chance. He won't go down without a fight, but there's something about Locke that scares him. It's just a matter of time.

[Groundbeef]

Locke's got a strong character and will to survive. He's focused. Cunning. That will can easily overcome the knowledge and resource advantage Ben has had. It already has. Bit by bit, things are going badly for Ben. And despite his best efforts, Locke keeps thwarting his plans.

Ben doesn't stand a chance. He won't go down without a fight, but there's something about Locke that scares him. It's just a matter of time.

No, we haven't seen Locke off Island. We have seen Ben, and he looked pretty good. I think Ben will either kill him, or somehow neuter him. Locke is just another pawn in Ben's game.

Something in Locke may scare Ben, but he will still be able to use Locke, and Locke will NEVER have the upper hand on Ben. Locke only thinks he is controlling Ben. Clearly he isn't.

[kexodusc]

No, we haven't seen Locke off Island. We have seen Ben, and he looked pretty good. I think Ben will either kill him, or somehow neuter him. Locke is just another pawn in Ben's game.

Something in Locke may scare Ben, but he will still be able to use Locke, and Locke will NEVER have the upper hand on Ben. Locke only thinks he is controlling Ben. Clearly he isn't.

Ben's off the Island cause Locke has conquered it and banished him....duhhhh.
Actually, I think Locke just stays behind voluntarily. Ben might escape with his life, maybe even a spot on the island, but he's not beating Locke.
Locke's already said many times the Island is his home. Ben's just keeping it warm for him...for now.

[ForeverAutumn]

I think Michael is the man on the boat also. last nights trailer said we'd be surprised at who we'll see next week.

I hope I'm not spoiling anything for anyone but the March 20th episode is Micheal-centric.

But...will we really be surprised to see Michael next week? Speculation that Michael is the man on the boat is all over the 'net. I'm starting to think that it's a red herring...

So, just for fun...who else could be on the boat that we'd be surprised to see.

Mikeal (Patchy), the man who never dies?
Tom (Mr. Friendly), not really dead after-all?
Walt as an adult (if time on the island really is different).
Charlie (after all, he was also seen by another patient in Hurley's loony-bin, whereas no-one else ever saw Dave)?!

A few more thoughts as I mull over this idea of it NOT being Micheal.

Before Ben tells Locke, he says, "you'd better sit down". Like the answer is going to be so shocking that Locke will need to be sitting. Would that be the case if it were Michael? Michael already did Ben's bidding once by killing AL and Libby and turning in Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley. Damn, he even shot himself in the arm to make it more convincing. So would Locke be so suprised to find out that Micheal is working for Ben on the boat?

That's it, I'm changing my vote back to thinking that it's not Michael.

[Groundbeef]

I hope I'm not spoiling anything for anyone but the March 20th episode is Micheal-centric.

But...will we really be surprised to see Michael next week? Speculation that Michael is the man on the boat is all over the 'net. I'm starting to think that it's a red herring...

So, just for fun...who else could be on the boat that we'd be surprised to see.

Mikeal (Patchy), the man who never dies?
Tom (Mr. Friendly), not really dead after-all?
Walt as an adult (if time on the island really is different).
Charlie (after all, he was also seen by another patient in Hurley's loony-bin, whereas no-one else ever saw Dave)?!

A few more thoughts as I mull over this idea of it NOT being Micheal.

Before Ben tells Locke, he says, "you'd better sit down". Like the answer is going to be so shocking that Locke will need to be sitting. Would that be the case if it were Michael? Michael already did Ben's bidding once by killing AL and Libby and turning in Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley. Damn, he even shot himself in the arm to make it more convincing. So would Locke be so suprised to find out that Micheal is working for Ben on the boat?

That's it, I'm changing my vote back to thinking that it's not Michael.

I swear to God it had better not be Wilford Brimley. He was in coccoon remeber. So he has some experience with otherworldly activity...

[GMichael]

Does anyone know who Juliet looks like from Ben's past?

[ForeverAutumn]

Does anyone know who Juliet looks like from Ben's past?

No. But if I had to guess I would say either his mother, or that little girl that he became friends with when he first came to the island.

[GMichael]

No. But if I had to guess I would say either his mother, or that little girl that he became friends with when he first came to the island.

Whatever happened to that little girl? She was the only person to be nice to him.

[kexodusc]

No. But if I had to guess I would say either his mother, or that little girl that he became friends with when he first came to the island.
Remember in season 3, Ben says Juliet bears a striking resemblance to Jack's ex-wife?
Does she also bear a resemblance to Ben's friend?

Maybe that's who's on the boat...Jack's ex-wire. How'd THAT be for a plot twist.
Bah Bah Bah BUUHHHHMMMMM!

[ForeverAutumn]

Whatever happened to that little girl? She was the only person to be nice to him.

We were left to believe that she was gassed with the rest of the Dharma people. But we have no firm evidence of that...

[Brett A]

So, just for fun...who else could be on the boat that we'd be surprised to see.


Maybe these guys?

[Hyfi]

Did those numbers sound familiar?

Maybe it's Walt on the boat.

[Kam]

ya know i still like how they'll keep going back to events we've seen (the plan split) and reveal more and more and more information slowly about it.

this show is like one giant rashoman.

[Brett A]

Did those numbers sound familiar?
I re-watched the episode last night w/my wife
The combo to the safe was 36-15-28
I don't remember "the numbers" Are these some of them?

[ForeverAutumn]

4 - 8 - 15 - 16 - 23 - 42

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I have been watching the Lost threads for a while, and while I never watch television at home, I decided to rent the first episode of the first season to see what all of the hoopla was all about. When I finish, I will report to you guys if I become an addict like all of you guys are(12 step program anyone?) LOL

[kexodusc]

I have been watching the Lost threads for a while, and while I never watch television at home, I decided to rent the first episode of the first season to see what all of the hoopla was all about. When I finish, I will report to you guys if I become an addict like all of you guys are(12 step program anyone?) LOL

We will be here with our big white rabbit friend waiting for you Sir T...you'll be back...you can't escape.

[ForeverAutumn]

I have been watching the Lost threads for a while, and while I never watch television at home, I decided to rent the first episode of the first season to see what all of the hoopla was all about. When I finish, I will report to you guys if I become an addict like all of you guys are(12 step program anyone?) LOL

I look forward to your insights Sir T. You would be a welcome addition to this discussion.

Warning: Becoming a Lost addict may cause severe side effects including dizzyness, headaches, sleeplessness, and lost productivity (especially on days following a new Lost episode).

[Worf101]

I have been watching the Lost threads for a while, and while I never watch television at home, I decided to rent the first episode of the first season to see what all of the hoopla was all about. When I finish, I will report to you guys if I become an addict like all of you guys are(12 step program anyone?) LOL

(Basso Profundo aka James Earl Jones voice)
"Abandon hope oh "Lost" one. "
"Thou art surely doomed!"
"Once entered one leaveth not from the land of the Lost."
"Thy soul is ours.... Mhwa ha ha ha ha ha......"

In other words..."Resistance is futile." "Assimilate, assimilate."

Da Worfster

PS good to see ya back.

[GMichael]

I have been watching the Lost threads for a while, and while I never watch television at home, I decided to rent the first episode of the first season to see what all of the hoopla was all about. When I finish, I will report to you guys if I become an addict like all of you guys are(12 step program anyone?) LOL

We'll miss you. Try not to be Lost for too long.

[topspeed]

Ben is "exactly where he wants to be" because he's already been there, done that. He's found a way to control the island's dominion over time. Whether it's time travel or bending time, he is a master manipulator because he has seen the outcome before anyone else. Desmond and, to some extent, Locke have been exposed to this. The question is how does Jacob factor into all this? Ben considers Locke a direct threat because, so far, he is the only other person that can hear Jacob.

BTW, how cool would it be if Jacob was actually some form of residual memory of a future Locke? In other words, Locke discovered his future self telling hime to "Help Me"? Get the hamster running on that one, kiddies!

[ForeverAutumn]

Now the writer's are just screwing with us. A flash forward and a flash back in the same episode? And really, Jin's flash back had no real purpose that I could see other than to lead us to believe that he was on the way to see Sun. Which, quite frankly, I was questioning anyhow. If Sun called him to say that she was going to the hospital, he wouldn't have stopped to buy a bear...twice!

At least one question was answered for me. I was wondering how Micheal and Walt could leave the island and go back to civilization. The world would have known by then that they were on the plane. So if everyone on the plane is dead, how could Michael and Walt just show up? But if they returned with new names and identities then perhaps they could return somehow. Like Ben's own little Witness Protection program. So, Ladies and Gents I introduce you to Kevin Johnson.

It'll be interesting to find out what actually happened to Michael and Walt when they left the island.

Of course the lingering question is where's Waldo...er...I mean...Walt.

[GMichael]

At least one question was answered for me. .

And Jin dies, and their baby lives.

[ForeverAutumn]

And Jin dies, and their baby lives.

But here's the really interesting questions. When, where, and how does Jin die?

We've been led to believe that the Oceanic Six are:
Jack
Kate
Aaron
Sayid
Hurley
Sun

Jin is buried in Korea so he got off the Island...or, at least, his body did. But where does he fit into the Six? Is he one of the two people that allegedly dies? At Kate's hearing Jack says that there were originally eight survivors but ultimately only six of the eight survived. Are the two that died Jin and Claire? Or maybe, Aaron isn't considered one of the Oceanic Six because, technically, he wasn't a passenger on the plane. Maybe Jin is one of the Six and dies after they get back home.

We know from Sun's pregnancy that last night's flash forward was appoximately seven months later. She made a point of telling Miles that she was two months pregnant, and since her baby wasn't pre-mature, we can assume a seven month lapse.

[GMichael]

But here's the really interesting questions. When, where, and how does Jin die?

We've been led to believe that the Oceanic Six are:
Jack
Kate
Aaron
Sayid
Hurley
Sun

Jin is buried in Korea so he got off the Island...or, at least, his body did. But where does he fit into the Six? Is he one of the two people that allegedly dies? At Kate's hearing Jack says that there were originally eight survivors but ultimately only six of the eight survived. Are the two that died Jin and Claire? Or maybe, Aaron isn't considered one of the Oceanic Six because, technically, he wasn't a passenger on the plane. Maybe Jin is one of the Six and dies after they get back home.

We know from Sun's pregnancy that last night's flash forward was appoximately seven months later. She made a point of telling Miles that she was two months pregnant, and since her baby wasn't pre-mature, we can assume a seven month lapse.

Jin's body? I didn't see his body. Just a tomb stone.

[Brett A]

On their way to Jin's grave last night, when Sun said that no one else would be coming, Hurley said "good". That to me points to some kind of falling out between the O-6. Why else would he be please that no one was joining them? Unless he was referring only to Jack, whom we saw he has a strained relationship with.

[topspeed]

One of the best things about last night's episode was the fabulous chemistry between Jin and Sun. While you can sense the tension between Jack/Kate/Sawyer or Jack/Juliet, Sun and Jin are the only "couple" that actually feels like a couple. Sun's graveside moment was one of the more honest...if that's the correct term...I've seen on the show.

As far as the story, it wasn't rife with "WTH?!?" moments like previous episodes. Jin stated that he would do everything in his power to get Sun and the baby off the island. My guess is that "everything" includes sacrificing his life, perhaps in the battle alluded to in the preview for next week. I doubt it (the writers would never make it that obvious), but you never know.

One question raised is who planted the fake Oceanic 815? Whitmore says it's Ben. Ben says it's Whitmore. Ben's spy (which we now know is Michael) says don't believe the Captain and while Whitmore may be a ruthless businessman, has he done anything in the past that would lead us to believe he's that brutal? Ben is a mass murderer, so we know he's deranged, to say the least. Both apparently have the resources, so which is it? Hmmm...

[ForeverAutumn]

One question raised is who planted the fake Oceanic 815? Whitmore says it's Ben. Ben says it's Whitmore. Ben's spy (which we now know is Michael) says don't believe the Captain and while Whitmore may be a ruthless businessman, has he done anything in the past that would lead us to believe he's that brutal? Ben is a mass murderer, so we know he's deranged, to say the least. Both apparently have the resources, so which is it? Hmmm...

I say it's Ben...see post #33.

[kexodusc]

Full kudos to my buddy Groundbeef who predicted Jin waaaaaaay back as the next Lostie to get offed.

Good episode. I kinda like how the writers give us 2 or 3 big WTF shows, then a simple, yet emotional side story for a week. Good way to shake things up.

The date on Jin's monument...did anyone catch it? 2004?

Did we establish that the Tempest was NOT a power plant for the island, and in fact only a death gas factory?

[Groundbeef]

I think that at this point Jin dying is off the table. All signs are pointing to it,but I don't see it happening just yet.

And here's why.

1. Hurley wanted to know if anyone else was coming. It would have been uncomfortable enough being at the "grave" site grieving for someone that wasn't dead. Sun may feel that she is unable to retun to the island, thus, Jin is "dead" to her. Jack wants to get back. If Jack were at the gravesite, it would only incite Sun to also demand to Hurley they need to go back.

2. See portions of above. By visiting the gravesite, it is a red herring for next week. According to the world, only 6 survivors are alive. Little difficult talking about the rest unless they are "dead". Who knows what deal was struck to bring them back home.

I think it will be someone of little consequence that dies next week. More than likely the Red Hair lady (Red shirt anyone?).

JIN IS ALIVE!!!!

[Brett A]

Why did Sayid turn Michael over to the Captain? Did he not "get" that doing that might kill everyone on the island? Was he just blinded by rage at Michael's traitorous tendencies?

[Worf101]

By turning Mike over to the Captain Sayid gains the man's 'trust", temporarily thwarts whatever plans Ben might have in mind and he gets to stand back and watch his two opponents beat the crap out of one another. All of this helps him get what he really wants which is the hell off that Island.

So we learn that somebody planted that fake plane. Losties say it's Boss man and his grubbers, but I ain't so sure. We learn that Penny's dad wants the island and everyone one on it DEAD!!!!!! Nice folks so who really started that gas explosion was it Ben or the Grubbers trying to gain the trust of the Losties.

When did the girl get told that whats her name was her mother? Is mom dead? I doubt it. You know the Islands healing ways and she's been there way too long to go out like that. Also Ben just betrayed his daughter again? Killed her boyfriend and her mum on purpose, because she "belongs to him" like the doc?

If the guys on the boat work for Penny's Dad, who the f**k does Ben work for? The descendants of the Island original inhabitants is my gues. Unlimited power, money and resources. Interesting.

Da Worfster

[Brett A]

So we learn that somebody planted that fake plane. Losties say it's Boss man and his grubbers, but I ain't so sure. We learn that Penny's dad wants the island and everyone one on it DEAD!!!!!! Da Worfster
The helicopter pilot, as well as the "other" now in the city, told Michael that it was Penny's dad who planted the fake plane, so it would follow to reason that Penny's dad would need to kill all the survivors (on his way to 'obtaining' the island) as a follow-through to that hoax.

An interesting thing happened to me last night. For a moment, I found myself empathizing with Ben. Wouldn't it be a f**king fantastic feat of messing with our heads if, when all this was over, us viewers were rootin' for Ben?

[Groundbeef]

By turning Mike over to the Captain Sayid gains the man's 'trust", temporarily thwarts whatever plans Ben might have in mind and he gets to stand back and watch his two opponents beat the crap out of one another. All of this helps him get what he really wants which is the hell off that Island.

So we learn that somebody planted that fake plane. Losties say it's Boss man and his grubbers, but I ain't so sure. We learn that Penny's dad wants the island and everyone one on it DEAD!!!!!! Nice folks so who really started that gas explosion was it Ben or the Grubbers trying to gain the trust of the Losties.

When did the girl get told that whats her name was her mother? Is mom dead? I doubt it. You know the Islands healing ways and she's been there way too long to go out like that. Also Ben just betrayed his daughter again? Killed her boyfriend and her mum on purpose, because she "belongs to him" like the doc?

If the guys on the boat work for Penny's Dad, who the f**k does Ben work for? The descendants of the Island original inhabitants is my gues. Unlimited power, money and resources. Interesting.

Da Worfster

1st. The lady that was killed was Ruesso (sp?) AKA "The French Woman". I think that she is dead. People do die on the island. There is no idication that people that have in fact "died" didn't die. Charlie is dead. The brother and sister duo are dead, as is Anna-Lucia, the bounty hunter that was in charge of Kate, Hurleys lover, and most of the talies.

I don't think that Ben is setting up his daughter. I think that for some reason she is "special" and Ben doesn't want harm to come to her. It's not the first time he has extended himself to sheild her from harm.

2nd. I think Ben works for the island. As weird as that sounds, I think he has an interest in keeping it a secret. Havent out why, just a hunch.

3rd. Sayid later is shown working for Ben. This runs counter to your argument above. I think he handed Micheal over because he doesn't understand the real reason the boat is where it is. Sayied has more history, and relationships with the remaining survivors. If he really felt that they were in harms way, he wouldn't be turning over Micheal. His distrust of Ben however, I think is getting in his way of seeing the bigger picture. He has it in is mind that Ben=EVIL that turning over Micheal isn't seen as a danger.

[ForeverAutumn]

The helicopter pilot, as well as the "other" now in the city, told Michael that it was Penny's dad who planted the fake plane, so it would follow to reason that Penny's dad would need to kill all the survivors (on his way to 'obtaining' the island) as a follow-through to that hoax.

Lapidus (helicopter guy) didn't say that Penny's Dad planted the plane. He said that the plane was a fake and that Penny's Dad believed him. Remember, he knew that the pilot of 815 that was shown on the news was not the real pilot (no wedding ring). He thinks that Widmore believes him and wants to help find the real plane. Well, he's half right. Widmore wants to find the real plane, but not for the reasons that Lapidus thinks.

We still don't know what happened to Michael and Walt between leaving the Island and getting back to New York. Michael's mother said that she can't tell anyone that Michael and Walt are alive and can't call them by their real names. So, Mike and Walt are keeping secret their real identities as 815 survivors. But why? They obviously weren't in cahoots with Ben yet. So why lie about who they are and where they've been for the last two months?


When did the girl get told that whats her name was her mother?
When the Losties were heading up to the radio tower and Ben tried to stop them. Rousseau was with the Losties and Ben told Alex, "meet your mother".


Is mom dead? I doubt it. You know the Islands healing ways and she's been there way too long to go out like that. Also Ben just betrayed his daughter again? Killed her boyfriend and her mum on purpose, because she "belongs to him" like the doc?

We don't know for sure who shot Karl and Rousseau. But I think that more importantly than Ben possibly betraying his daughter, is his daughter's betrayal of Ben by standing up and declaring herself as Ben's daughter with the intent of turning him in to save herself. Sure she's just a scared kid, but a kid who loved and trusted her father wouldn't do that.

[ForeverAutumn]

Sayid later is shown working for Ben. This runs counter to your argument above. I think he handed Micheal over because he doesn't understand the real reason the boat is where it is. Sayied has more history, and relationships with the remaining survivors. If he really felt that they were in harms way, he wouldn't be turning over Micheal. His distrust of Ben however, I think is getting in his way of seeing the bigger picture. He has it in is mind that Ben=EVIL that turning over Micheal isn't seen as a danger.

I agree with this opinion. Sayid doesn't trust Ben. And he certainly has no reason to trust Michael. Michael killed two people and shot himself, then turned four of his "friends" over to Ben and sailed away leaving his four "friends" tied up with shot guns pointed at their heads. Why the hell would Sayid believe anything that Michael says?

Ben has been nothing but trouble for the Losties since they met him. Sayid probably thinks that Ben is using Michael to thwart the rescue mission and that by turning Michael in, the rest of the Losties are more likely to be rescued. At this point, he has no problem throwing Michael or Ben to the dogs if it will help them all get home faster.

[kexodusc]

Was Walt's Grandmother the same lady that the ghostbuster dude visited a few shows back?

[Worf101]

Was Walt's Grandmother the same lady that the ghostbuster dude visited a few shows back?
Ghostbuster met her BEFORE he went on the boat, the same boat as Mike. Mike expected a call from Walt while on the boat, the same time ShangHai Ghostbuster is on the Island ergo, Walt was not the dope dealer killed and exorcised by G.B.

Da Worfster

[ForeverAutumn]

I was talking Lost talk to a collegue this morning and our discussion went round many issues, but the one that we came up with that we both liked is this...

Charles Widmore is part of the Dharma Initiative.

Ben schemed to kill all the Dharma people on the island. But there must have been (and probably still are) Dharma people on the mainland. They would know about the island and about Ben and his people.

What if Widmore is a Dharma guy using his resources to get to the island and find Ben. Firstly, to punish Ben for his slaying of the Dharma folks on the island. Secondly, to continue their research. Ben thinks that he has to save the Island from Dharma, so it would stand to reason that he would want to keep Widmore away.

If Widmore is part of Dharma, he may have filled Penny in on the whole story. It would explain how Penny knows about the Island and knew where to look for Desmond. It also explains how the guys in Iceland (or wherever) knew where and how to look for the blip when the hatch exploded, and report it to Penny.

We've learned to think of Widmore as a bad guy because we see him through Desmond and Ben's eyes. If Widmore somehow knows about Desmond's time travelling ways, then his distain for Des may be nothing more than trying to save his daughter from a heartbreak that he knew was coming. Even if he doesn't know about Desmond's time travel, he's still just a Dad trying to protect his daughter from someone that he, perhaps, thinks isn't good enough for her. Ben's dislike for him is because he sees Dharma and, therefore, Widmore as his enemy.

But what if Widmore is really the good guy???

[kexodusc]

I was talking Lost talk to a collegue this morning and our discussion went round many issues, but the one that we came up with that we both liked is this...

Charles Widmore is part of the Dharma Initiative.

Ben schemed to kill all the Dharma people on the island. But there must have been (and probably still are) Dharma people on the mainland. They would know about the island and about Ben and his people.

What if Widmore is a Dharma guy using his resources to get to the island and find Ben. Firstly, to punish Ben for his slaying of the Dharma folks on the island. Secondly, to continue their research. Ben thinks that he has to save the Island from Dharma, so it would stand to reason that he would want to keep Widmore away.

If Widmore is part of Dharma, he may have filled Penny in on the whole story. It would explain how Penny knows about the Island and knew where to look for Desmond. It also explains how the guys in Iceland (or wherever) knew where and how to look for the blip when the hatch exploded, and report it to Penny.

We've learned to think of Widmore as a bad guy because we see him through Desmond and Ben's eyes. If Widmore somehow knows about Desmond's time travelling ways, then his distain for Des may be nothing more than trying to save his daughter from a heartbreak that he knew was coming. Even if he doesn't know about Desmond's time travel, he's still just a Dad trying to protect his daughter from someone that he, perhaps, thinks isn't good enough for her. Ben's dislike for him is because he sees Dharma and, therefore, Widmore as his enemy.

But what if Widmore is really the good guy???

Interesting theory...
I personally think Widmore is NOT a Dharma guy - the show suggested he came across the journal of the Black Rock's captain via the estate of Dr. Hanso...so of course he knows some stuff about the Island is looking for it.
The Dharma Initiative seems to be a bit more, well, noble and less sinister than Widmore.

But then again, if they're so righteous, why have a poison gas factory and why fight the "hostile" inhabitants of the island?

Hmmm....ya could be right. There's obviously some sort of connection, and yes, the DI would definitely have contacts around the world.

[Worf101]

That's one of the BIG questions isn't it?

1.What IS the Dharma Initiative.

2. Who are they now, since their enitre facility was wiped out by Ben?

3, Is Whidmore part of the D.I.?

4. How did the D.I. keep their discovery and exploration of the Island secret lo these many years?

5. Now that the Oceanic 6 are back in the world have they told anyone about where the hell they were all those months and did this include any disclosures about the Island?

I personally believe that Ben is holding everyone else hostage on the Island thereby forcing everyone else to keep mum on its existence and to get Sayid and the others to do his bidding. Ben is the Anitchrist, for sure.

Da Worfster

[ForeverAutumn]

Maybe it's not Ben and the Island that the Oceanic Six are trying to protect. Maybe it was Charles Widmore who convinced them all to lie and keep secrets to protect whatever it is the Dharma Initiative are up to. Sacrifice for the greater good.

So far, every season of Lost tells a story.
S1 was the plane crash.
S2 was the hatch
S3 was The Others
S4 is the rescue.
If I had to place a bet, I'd bet that S5 will be Charles Widmore and Dharma.

Purely speculation on my part, of course. :)

[Worf101]

When do the NEW Episodes start?

Da "Slacker" Worfster

[Groundbeef]

When do the NEW Episodes start?

Da "Slacker" Worfster

April 24th I belive. Also, its on a new time. I think 9-10CST.

[ForeverAutumn]

Time to bump this thread back up!

Okay, so last night's episode totally made up for the ultimately lame Micheal episode that the first half of the season ended with.

But did anyone notice how many questions were answered almost before you could ask them?

Question: Sayid is married?
Answer: I spent eight years looking for the woman I love. When I finally found her I married her.

Question: Ben can call up Smokey for help? But he told Locke that he didn't know who Smokey was.
Answer: Locke calls Ben out on it before the end of the episode (of course we still don't know what Smokey actually is!).

Question: (from a previous episode) Why would Sayid be working with Ben to kill Ben's enemies?
Answer: Revenge for Nadia's death.

But...does anyone else here think that Ben is pulling the wool over Sayid's eyes? Ben told Sayid that it was Widmore's guys who killed Nadia. But did you see the look on Ben's face as he walked away from Sayid after Sayid's offer to help Ben? It was that self-satisfied "my plan worked" look that we've gotten to know. Did Ben kill Nadia and blame it on Widmore to get Sayid to work with him? It was certainly no coincidence that Ben appeared at Nadia's funeral. Why would Sayid trust his word so easily?

And what are "the rules" between Ben and Widmore?

Also, I'm more convinced than ever that Widmore has something to do with Dharma.

So much to absorb from a great episode!

[ForeverAutumn]

Oh yeah, here's a question that wasn't answered...Why did Ben need to confirm what the date and the year was?

Also, WHERE THE HELL IS EVERYONE? The first episode of the second half of the fourth season has aired and it looks like Smokey got everyone around here too! Am I the only survivor?

[Brett A]

Oh yeah, here's a question that wasn't answered...Why did Ben need to confirm what the date and the year was?

I just couldn't make sense of the chronology of Ben's story last night.

By that time I was pretty confused about whether I was watching a flash-forward or flashback.
When Ben woke up in the Sahara, it seemed to take him a few moments to get his bearings, and then later when he needed to confirm what year it was (2005), I began to think that Ben is able to "work" the time travel abilities of the island.

[GMichael]

Also, WHERE THE HELL IS EVERYONE? The first episode of the second half of the fourth season has aired and it looks like Smokey got everyone around here too! Am I the only survivor?

Haven't watched the episode yet. Been trying to avoid this thread till I do.

[topspeed]

Smokey didn't get the guy who killed Ben's daughter, at least according to the previews. How he escaped is the question.

Why does Hurley know the way to Jacob??? What does he have to do with it? It was very cool that Sawyer...the guy who cares only about himself and rides Hurley more than anyone...threatened Locke if he hurt one curly hair on his head. The interactions and characterizations on this show is what make is so great!

Did anyone notice the entrance to the catacombs (or whatever) before Ben released Smokey? Keystone bricks and a rock wall. The architecture was very medieval to my eyes and suggests Smokey has been there a looooong time.

Finally, the dialogue between Ben and Widmore seemed almost biblical. I couldn't help but think it was more a conversation between good and evil instead of two men. If anyone saw Constantine, it was very much the same vibe. "The Rules" seem to imply some kind of realm or consciousness beyond ours. Interesting...

[Rich-n-Texas]

So are you going to be the next Michael Jordan who comes in and out of retirement so many times it makes peoples heads spin Speedy? :biggrin5:

[ForeverAutumn]

Smokey didn't get the guy who killed Ben's daughter, at least according to the previews. How he escaped is the question.

Why does Hurley know the way to Jacob??? What does he have to do with it? It was very cool that Sawyer...the guy who cares only about himself and rides Hurley more than anyone...threatened Locke if he hurt one curly hair on his head. The interactions and characterizations on this show is what make is so great!

Did anyone notice the entrance to the catacombs (or whatever) before Ben released Smokey? Keystone bricks and a rock wall. The architecture was very medieval to my eyes and suggests Smokey has been there a looooong time.

Finally, the dialogue between Ben and Widmore seemed almost biblical. I couldn't help but think it was more a conversation between good and evil instead of two men. If anyone saw Constantine, it was very much the same vibe. "The Rules" seem to imply some kind of realm or consciousness beyond ours. Interesting...

We're not really sure yet what Hurley has to do with Jacob. But he did see Jacob's cabin and Jack's dad in the cabin in Jacob's rocking chair. In a previous episode (maybe the same on he saw the cabin in) he commented to Locke that it was "that way". Ben overheard him and you definately saw a look of shock on Ben's face. Maybe Jacob has something to do with the numbers.

I did notice the entrance that Ben went into. And how dirty he was when he came out. Almost like he'd been rolling in ashes?!

[kexodusc]

Okay, late to the party, but thank goodness for PVR's!

On FA's earlier comments about Sayid joining Ben - yeah, I totally got a vibe Ben was manipulating him. My guess - Ben will use Sayid to kill Penny and get his revenge on Widmore!!!

Also - Ben arrived in the middle of the desert - I'm just thinking back to a previous show where there was a Dharma collar (for a polar bear?) in the sand....anyone else remember this? Any significance?

I'm very curious to know what "the rules" are as well. How Widmore broke them and what the consequences are?

And let's not forget, Jack and co. know that Faraday and team aren't their to rescue them anymore. What's the fallout from that going to be?

Best scene: Early when they're playing Risk - and Hurley says "He's trying to divide and conquer us"...just me, or is that EXACTLY what happened at the end of the show???? Clever.

Best quote: Sawyer, when he says: "Let me guess..14J isn't the code for the pizza boy"

[GMichael]

Another hottie bites the dust. Anyone know the average lifespan of a hot chick on this show? Don't they ever kill off the guys? I say Sawyer should be next.

[Groundbeef]

So I was watching last night, and ended up with more questions than answers. (Go figure...LOST...)

Unless I'm missing something, I didn't think that Sawyer was one of the 6. Or did I fall off a cliff, and miss that episode?

Either way, it looks like Jack is about to fall off the wagon.

And Aaron is Claire's baby.

And Smokey didn't kill the soldiers, just shake them up.

Overall, I felt it was one of the weaker episodes I've seen in a while. The whole Jack needed surgery angle was pretty lame.

Biggest shocker was that the carrot top lady can understand Korean. I liked when Jin said he was going to break the other scientists fingers until she admitted she understood Korean. Very old school Jin.

I hope next week is better. There are only 4 more left until this season takes a wrap.

[ForeverAutumn]

I don't think that Sawyer was one of the six. If you think waaaaay back, you'll recall that Sawyer had a kid with that girlfriend that he conned. My guess is that Kate promised to look out for the kid on Sawyer's behalf.

I agree that it was one of the weaker episodes but still not as bad as finding Michael on the freighter. I'm sure that Jack's surgery is leading up to something...probably why he was convinced to get on the helicopter and leave the island and the rest of the Losties behind, which is something that I can't imagine him doing otherwise.

What hit me most in that episode was Claire just walking off into the jungle with Christian and leaving Aaron behind. And then Hurley's comment to Jack that "you're not supposed to raise him". Leading back to previous theories that there is something very special about Aaron.

[GMichael]

I don't think that Sawyer was one of the six. If you think waaaaay back, you'll recall that Sawyer had a kid with that girlfriend that he conned. My guess is that Kate promised to look out for the kid on Sawyer's behalf.

I agree that it was one of the weaker episodes but still not as bad as finding Michael on the freighter. I'm sure that Jack's surgery is leading up to something...probably why he was convinced to get on the helicopter and leave the island and the rest of the Losties behind, which is something that I can't imagine him doing otherwise.

What hit me most in that episode was Claire just walking off into the jungle with Christian and leaving Aaron behind. And then Hurley's comment to Jack that "you're not supposed to raise him". Leading back to previous theories that there is something very special about Aaron.

Didn't you hear? Sawyer is the next to die. The bear gets him.

[Groundbeef]

I don't think that Sawyer was one of the six. If you think waaaaay back, you'll recall that Sawyer had a kid with that girlfriend that he conned. My guess is that Kate promised to look out for the kid on Sawyer's behalf.

What hit me most in that episode was Claire just walking off into the jungle with Christian and leaving Aaron behind. And then Hurley's comment to Jack that "you're not supposed to raise him". Leading back to previous theories that there is something very special about Aaron.

Well, I may have to go back and re-watch the part where Jack is drunk near the end w/Kate. He is asking about where she was, and what she was doing.

I thought that she said she was talking to Sawyer on the phone, and then was doing something for him. Kate seemed really upset (obviously) but, if it had something to do with his kid, why wouldn't she have said that?

After all, I doubt Jack would have been so angry if she had told him about that. This is WAAAAYYYY to "cloak and dagger" to simply be Kate helping out Sawyers kid.

Also, I had kinda forgotten about the baby part on the island. I think that Jack's dad was leading Claire away, so that the baby HAD to leave the island. If everyone thinks she is gone it makes it much easier to take the baby off.

Secondly, remeber Claire is the only person to have given birth and not died. I think somehow the baby needs to leave if for no other reason than the powers that be don't want Widmore to get their claws into it.

[ForeverAutumn]

Secondly, remeber Claire is the only person to have given birth and not died. I think somehow the baby needs to leave if for no other reason than the powers that be don't want Widmore to get their claws into it.

It's only women who get pregnant while on the island that die. Claire was pregnant before she landed on the island, same with Rousseau.

Hmmmm. But you raise a good point. Was Kate actually talking to Sawyer?

[GMichael]

It's only women who get pregnant while on the island that die. Claire was pregnant before she landed on the island, same with Rousseau.

Hmmmm. But you raise a good point. Was Kate actually talking to Sawyer?

Only women who get pregnant and stay on the island, right?

[Groundbeef]

It's only women who get pregnant while on the island that die. Claire was pregnant before she landed on the island, same with Rousseau.

Hmmmm. But you raise a good point. Was Kate actually talking to Sawyer?

Well, there was some speculation that ANY woman that gave birth was going to die. Remeber, the others kidnapped her, and injected her with some "antidote".

There is something about that baby.

I still have to re-watch the part w/Kate.

[ForeverAutumn]

Only women who get pregnant and stay on the island, right?

Could be. Sun's baby survived...or so we've been led to believe.

[Brett A]

Hmmmm. But you raise a good point. Was Kate actually talking to Sawyer?I don't think Kate was talking to Sawyer. She told Jack she made a promise to Sawyer. That's something you say about someone who's dead. I think the unattended funeral might have been for him.

I think what we saw this week was the beginning of jacks descent into the bad drug and alcohol addiction we saw in the flash-forward in the start of this season (or was it the end of last) But why? What's is it that is so horrific that jack can't face? That is what I think we're still to find out. And I'll bet it has to do with the events getting off the island. Remember in the earlier flash-forward, when jack met Kate at the back of an airstrip and said "We've gottta get back there. It was a mistake to leave!!" --or something like that?

[Worf101]

My observations.

1. Life expectancy on this Island sucks mule testicles. Just when you find a character you LIKE (Ecko Rousseau etc...) they bit the big enchilada or disappear. Suckage.

2. This whole story is eerily remenicient of a "ying/yang" - "Good vs. Evil" - "Order vs. Chaos" kind of thing between Ben and Whidmore. Guardians of the Island vs. exploiters. They've been warring/searching for the Island since the dawn of time. Which ever side owns it can expolit it's vast powers, for good or ill. The Rules being that each "leader" is allowed one child, one progeny to carry on after their death. Ben's daughter was his, Whidmore smoked her, so Ben's gonna get Penny. Ben telling Whidmore that "you'll never find the Island"? WTF? I know the thing moves in time, but does it move in space as well?

3. I told the ole lady that if Ben smiles when he walks away, he killed Sayid's wife. Bingo. But Sayid's not stupid enough to trust Ben as far as he can throw him. He's siding with Ben until he can find out who/what's been pulling the strings for the last 8 years. Then I've no doubt he'll put two between Ben's Baby Blues.

4. The Island is more powerful or contains more Alien tech than we know. We know it can operate outside of time, heal the sick, even raise the dead (or make them ghosts) but it can also teleport you through space and time. Not exactly, but within reason. That's how Ben wound up in the desert and why he asked what day and year it was. He'd also been there before which is why he had a suite already reserved. They tested the teleportation device with polar bears which is why you found the bones of them with Dharma tags on them in the desert that appeared centuries old.

5. Jack's way too tortured for the appearence of his Dad to have sent him that far off the deep end. Also I think puddin' sewed something up in Jack that's NOT supposed to be there, that's why Kate had to leave.

6. Maybe Hurley's right, maybe they are all dead and they were never supposed to get out of purgatory.

Da Worfster

[Groundbeef]

My observations.

3. I told the ole lady that if Ben smiles when he walks away, he killed Sayid's wife. Bingo. But Sayid's not stupid enough to trust Ben as far as he can throw him. He's siding with Ben until he can find out who/what's been pulling the strings for the last 8 years. Then I've no doubt he'll put two between Ben's Baby Blues.


5. Jack's way too tortured for the appearence of his Dad to have sent him that far off the deep end. Also I think puddin' sewed something up in Jack that's NOT supposed to be there, that's why Kate had to leave.

6. Maybe Hurley's right, maybe they are all dead and they were never supposed to get out of purgatory.

Da Worfster

3. Ben didn't kill Sayid's wife. He just wants to have him on his side to do the dirty work.

5. Good thought, but don't forget Bernard was in the tent as well. He is too ethical to allow something like that to happen to Jack and not speak up. He was an army medic or something like that, so he would be able to monitor the surgery without allowing something like that to be inserted into Jack.

6. Wrong. The writers have already stated on the record that they are not dead. Good theory, but wrong.

[ForeverAutumn]

Wow Worf, those are some interesting theories! I especially liked 4 and 5. I'll have to mull those over for a while.

[ForeverAutumn]

3. Ben didn't kill Sayid's wife. He just wants to have him on his side to do the dirty work.

5. Good thought, but don't forget Bernard was in the tent as well. He is too ethical to allow something like that to happen to Jack and not speak up. He was an army medic or something like that, so he would be able to monitor the surgery without allowing something like that to be inserted into Jack.

6. Wrong. The writers have already stated on the record that they are not dead. Good theory, but wrong.

I tend to agree with Worf that Ben is somehow tied to Sayid's wife's death. It wasn't a coincedence that he had a picture of her alleged killer.

I think that Juliet could talk Bernard into doing something to Jack if she could convince him that it was somehow for the greater good. I hadn't really given any thought to why she was so insistent that Kate leave, but now that Worf's brought it up I agree that there must have been a reason...which I'm sure we'll find out before this series is over.

Yeah, no purgatory. Maybe they all have Ghostbuster Myles sixth sense though.

[Groundbeef]

I tend to agree with Worf that Ben is somehow tied to Sayid's wife's death. It wasn't a coincedence that he had a picture of her alleged killer.

I think that Juliet could talk Bernard into doing something to Jack if she could convince him that it was somehow for the greater good. I hadn't really given any thought to why she was so insistent that Kate leave, but now that Worf's brought it up I agree that there must have been a reason...which I'm sure we'll find out before this series is over.

Yeah, no purgatory. Maybe they all have Ghostbuster Myles sixth sense though.

Well, I'm not going to discount that somehow he was involved in the killing, but I don't think he did the actual deed.

I still am not sure about Juliet putting something in Jack. This might be a case of us just wanting to see something that didn't happen. Either way, I still don't think that Bernard would be in on the deal.

And it could be that she is as much a control freak as Jack. Jack wanted Kate there, Juliet didn't. They are "competing" for the affection of the same guy, and Juliet just used the opportunity as a power play.

Or maybe Kate just needs a shower. Maybe she smelled funny, and Juliet couldn't concentrate.

[ForeverAutumn]

WTF? So Dr. Richard Bright Eyes is Locke's Dad? Or is he? They never actually came out and said that he is. But he's always around and he never gets older. Who the hell is this guy, Randall Flagg?

And how about Abbadon as Locke's orderly? John is definately on that island for a reason. He's been right about that all along.

So, here's my new theory. Christian has been to the Island before. That's why he became a drunk back in the real world. And now Jack is totally following in his footsteps. It's no coincidence that Jack and Claire are both on the island. Christian somehow was called back to the island and he made sure that both of his children would be there with him. What I don't know yet is why.

If they move the Island, that would explain why the Oceanic 6 aren't easily able to go back to it and rescue the rest of the Losties. They don't know how to get back.

But here's the big question of my evening...when Christian says that they have to move the Island. Does he mean that they have to move the physical location? Or does he mean that they have to move it in time?

I'm rambling assorted thoughts as I write this. If they have to move it in time...and assuming that Christian has been there before...that could explain two things. First, why Christian has returned to the island. Perhaps he was there once and left. The Island was moved into the future and he had to wait until time passed and he was part of that same future before he could go back. Secondly, if he died in the real world and the Island is, say, six months earlier, he could un-die.

Does any of that make sense?

What makes absolutely NO sense to me is Claire leaving Aaron behind...and not even looking upset about it. I have an alternate theory which is that Christian is still dead and Claire died when Christian came to get her. They're both ghosts. But that theory just seems too cheesy to me. I prefer my theory that Christian came back to life.

[kexodusc]

WTF? So Dr. Richard Bright Eyes is Locke's Dad? Or is he? They never actually came out and said that he is. But he's always around and he never gets older. Who the hell is this guy, Randall Flagg?

And how about Abbadon as Locke's orderly? John is definately on that island for a reason. He's been right about that all along.

So, here's my new theory. Christian has been to the Island before. That's why he became a drunk back in the real world. And now Jack is totally following in his footsteps. It's no coincidence that Jack and Claire are both on the island. Christian somehow was called back to the island and he made sure that both of his children would be there with him. What I don't know yet is why.

If they move the Island, that would explain why the Oceanic 6 aren't easily able to go back to it and rescue the rest of the Losties. They don't know how to get back.

But here's the big question of my evening...when Christian says that they have to move the Island. Does he mean that they have to move the physical location? Or does he mean that they have to move it in time?

I'm rambling assorted thoughts as I write this. If they have to move it in time...and assuming that Christian has been there before...that could explain two things. First, why Christian has returned to the island. Perhaps he was there once and left. The Island was moved into the future and he had to wait until time passed and he was part of that same future before he could go back. Secondly, if he died in the real world and the Island is, say, six months earlier, he could un-die.

Does any of that make sense?

What makes absolutely NO sense to me is Claire leaving Aaron behind...and not even looking upset about it. I have an alternate theory which is that Christian is still dead and Claire died when Christian came to get her. They're both ghosts. But that theory just seems too cheesy to me. I prefer my theory that Christian came back to life.

Hmmm, yeah, the whole Claire thing was unexpected - but seems that Aaron is going to play a prominent role in future plots. Probably like we all expeted Walt to 3 years ago.

Randall Flagg? The dude from The Stand?

[ForeverAutumn]

Randall Flagg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Flagg) makes his first appearance in The Stand (one of the best books I've ever read IMO). But then appears in other subsequent Stephen King books. I'm starting to feel some similarities here.

I don't think that we're done with Walt yet. Maybe Walt and Aaron are the future Ben and Locke.

[kexodusc]

Randall Flagg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Flagg) makes his first appearance in The Stand (one of the best books I've ever read IMO). But then appears in other subsequent Stephen King books. I'm starting to feel some similarities here.

I don't think that we're done with Walt yet. Maybe Walt and Aaron are the future Ben and Locke.
What's Richard's last name? Most of the Flagg characters have the initials "R.F."...we've got an "R" and we know there's a lot of ties to King's work on the show...could it be a subtle nod to author/fan of the show?

[ForeverAutumn]

What's Richard's last name? Most of the Flagg characters have the initials "R.F."...we've got an "R" and we know there's a lot of ties to King's work on the show...could it be a subtle nod to author/fan of the show?

LOL. I thought of that too. I went onto IMDB to look up my Dr. Brighteyes. And it turns out that his real last name isn't Brighteyes at all, but Alpert. No F to be found.

[Groundbeef]

What's Richard's last name? Most of the Flagg characters have the initials "R.F."...we've got an "R" and we know there's a lot of ties to King's work on the show...could it be a subtle nod to author/fan of the show?

It's been a while since I have read the Stand (GREAT BOOK), but I seem to remember the Crimson King playing a big part as well.

Randal Flagg also shows up in the Tower series as well. That is a great series by King if you haven't read them yet.

Something goofy is going on, that is for sure.

[Worf101]

Welp, I was right about one thing. They can move the Island both in space and time. Now, was the guy in the cabin with Claire, her and Jack's dad? I didn't recognize the guy. I'm surprised ole Smokey didn't kill all the mercs.

Theory Time.

1. They successfuly moved the Island hence Ben's comment to Whidmore that he'll never find it and Jacks inability to get back there as well.

2. Walt's Dad's gonna somehow save the lives of some losties and thereby redeem himself.

3. Both sides have been coming at Locke over the the course of his life. Both the "others" and the "grubbers" (Ben's folks and Whidmore's) know that he is something special. Both groups have been trying to predict his path and steer it, hence the whole "which of htese belongs to you" query. Locke's trying to exercise "free will" but I don't know how much he really has in this case.

4. The island will use you up. Look at Ben. He's no longer the Island guardian so now he's of on a vendetta to kill Penny. Probably when she's in Desmond's arms.

5. Locke might be smart enough to save the Island without being a total prick like his predecessor.

6. Clare was killed during shock and awe, but the Island kept her alive long enough to meet Daddy.

Enough musings I gotta go to work.

Da Worfster

[ForeverAutumn]

And the numbers finally reappear!

So is Oceanic involved in the cover-up? Or did Widmore arrange for the cover-up before Oceanic was brought into the picture?

This is all getting very interesting and I think that there will be more than a few dead Losties before the season is over. But if both Jin and Desmond bite the dust on the freighter, I'm going to be one very unhappy viewer. There goes the eye candy!

I loved, let me say that again LOVED, Sun buying Daddy's company. That was brilliant! What a gal.

According to Sledgeweb's site, the two hour season finale is in TWO WEEKS. WTH is going on this week?

[kexodusc]

Hmmmm, wonder what we can expect from Ensign Ro in all of this?
I get the feeling there's something fishy going on with Oceanic too, like they're part of the cover up or something.

I thought Sun buying the company was pretty cool - how much money did they make? And what will she do with her new wealth and power?

Kinda cool to see Jack meet Claire's mom.
Just thinking back - remember when that psychic dude Claire visited said she had to take her baby to LA? There would be nice people there to take care of him? - Guess Aaron sort of ended up in LA after all huh? Wonder if I'm reading too much into that...

Is the Orchid the last Dharma station to be revealed to us?

Is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling the Sawyer is the next to die?

[ForeverAutumn]

Just thinking back - remember when that psychic dude Claire visited said she had to take her baby to LA? There would be nice people there to take care of him? - Guess Aaron sort of ended up in LA after all huh? Wonder if I'm reading too much into that...

Oh, that's an excellent observation! I don't think that you're reading too much into that at all.


Is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling the Sawyer is the next to die?

That will break my heart. But I think that you're right and I think that he dies to save Hurley's life. He's definately developed a big ol' soft spot for "Jabba". But he won't die before asking Kate for a 'favour'. I just hope that there isn't a big sappy love scene. I couldn't stand that.

[kexodusc]

That will break my heart. But I think that you're right and I think that he dies to save Hurley's life. He's definately developed a big ol' soft spot for "Jabba". But he won't die before asking Kate for a 'favour'. I just hope that there isn't a big sappy love scene. I couldn't stand that.
That would be a gutsy move....
Yeah, the big sacrifice scene is what I'm expecting. I bet Sawyer is in everyone's top 3 characters and I don't know if the show would work well without him. I hope he's not. Kill Bernard or Jin instead. Even Juliet. She can go.

They could pull a swerve where he stays behind to help the remaining losties or helps move the island or something - he and Locke have some weird karma together I think.

[Groundbeef]

That would be a gutsy move....
Yeah, the big sacrifice scene is what I'm expecting. I bet Sawyer is in everyone's top 3 characters and I don't know if the show would work well without him. I hope he's not. Kill Bernard or Jin instead. Even Juliet. She can go.

They could pull a swerve where he stays behind to help the remaining losties or helps move the island or something - he and Locke have some weird karma together I think.

I don't think EITHER Jin/Desmond/Sawyer Die.

Here is why. Next season will be about the 6 trying to get back. Meanwhile, Jin/Desmond/Sawyer need to hold down the fort. Not to mention that I'm pretty sure all of them want to leave. At least Desomond. So I think it will be how they deal with being "left behind".


All in all, it was a pretty good episode though.

[ForeverAutumn]

I don't think EITHER Jin/Desmond/Sawyer Die.

Here is why. Next season will be about the 6 trying to get back. Meanwhile, Jin/Desmond/Sawyer need to hold down the fort. Not to mention that I'm pretty sure all of them want to leave. At least Desomond. So I think it will be how they deal with being "left behind".


All in all, it was a pretty good episode though.

In retrospect, I think that you're right.

Last night, when Sun was asked about her husband, it looked like she had trouble lying about him dying when the plane crashed. I would think that if your husband is dead, lying about how it happened would not be a big deal. But if your husband is alive, then lying about his death would be difficult. Also, she seemed pretty together when discussing his death. If he made it to the freighter and then died on it, just before she's rescued, I think that she'd be far more emotional.

Desmond will survive because he has to be reunited with Penny...the real love story of Lost...and then protect her from Ben (my prediction).

Sawyer will live and choose to stay on the Island. He still has no reason to return to the real world and being on the Island gives him a purpose. He and Locke will work together to save the Island and everyone on it. They've bonded ever since Locke turned over his Daddy to Sawyer.

Here's the problem with my nice little scenerios predicted above. Desmond will be reunited with Penny and will be her protector. Sawyer will stay on the island. But if Jin isn't dead then where is he? Not one of the Oceanic 6...not on the Island...then where?

[Groundbeef]

In retrospect, I think that you're right.

Last night, when Sun was asked about her husband, it looked like she had trouble lying about him dying when the plane crashed. I would think that if your husband is dead, lying about how it happened would not be a big deal. But if your husband is alive, then lying about his death would be difficult. Also, she seemed pretty together when discussing his death. If he made it to the freighter and then died on it, just before she's rescued, I think that she'd be far more emotional.

Desmond will survive because he has to be reunited with Penny...the real love story of Lost...and then protect her from Ben (my prediction).

Sawyer will live and choose to stay on the Island. He still has no reason to return to the real world and being on the Island gives him a purpose. He and Locke will work together to save the Island and everyone on it. They've bonded ever since Locke turned over his Daddy to Sawyer.

Here's the problem with my nice little scenerios predicted above. Desmond will be reunited with Penny and will be her protector. Sawyer will stay on the island. But if Jin isn't dead then where is he? Not one of the Oceanic 6...not on the Island...then where?

I think the ship DOES blowup. But Desmond, and Jin escape. Micheal however, DOES NOT. The scientist/red head may die...as well as the other Losties brought back.

His purpose for surviving was to blow up the ship. However, now that his friends are onboard, he will attempt to abort the mission, but will die in the process.

Thats my snap prediction.

[ForeverAutumn]

I think the ship DOES blowup. But Desmond, and Jin escape. Micheal however, DOES NOT. The scientist/red head may die...as well as the other Losties brought back.

His purpose for surviving was to blow up the ship. However, now that his friends are onboard, he will attempt to abort the mission, but will die in the process.

Thats my snap prediction.

The red-headed chick stayed back on the island. I did notice, however, that as the Zodiak pulled away from the beach one of the unknown Losties who got on board was wearing a red shirt. You just know that person's a goner. LOL.

[Worf101]

Hmmmm...

1. The Oceanic 6 are the only survivors right? Only about 6 folks can fit on that dingy or in that chopper.

2. Has to be the dingy cause the chopper pilot didn't make it back (so far as we know).

3. Jin, Michael and Desmond all "buy it". But in Lost there's dead, and then there's DEAD! One eye dies all the time but he ain't DEAD. I'm surprised Rouseau and Ben's daughter are DEAD. So they might die and not DIE if you catch my drift.

4. Some of these losties are truly immortals but it seems to be a select few. Curious.

5. Oceanic Airways MUST be owned lock stock and barrel by James Whidmore and buds.

6. They paid the 6 a boat load of money to "shut up" about their real experiences so as to not have anymore folks looking for the fountain of youth. Could you imagine what the military would do to get thier hands on some of that stuff on the Island?

7. I'm still betting on aliens.

Da Worfster

[ForeverAutumn]

5. Oceanic Airways MUST be owned lock stock and barrel by James Whidmore and buds.

6. They paid the 6 a boat load of money to "shut up" about their real experiences so as to not have anymore folks looking for the fountain of youth. Could you imagine what the military would do to get thier hands on some of that stuff on the Island?


I agree that Widmore has something to do with the “settlement” that the O6 received. Oceanic Air wouldn’t have that kind of money. According to the Oceanic Air web site back in 2004, they ceased operations after the disappearance of flight 815. Couple that with the trouble that all airlines had and are having after 9/11 and there’s no way that Oceanic Air could pay off 6 people to the extent that they must have for Sun to be able to afford Daddy’s company.

I don’t think that money would be enough to keep Jack and Hurley quiet. There has to be another reason. Jack is just too moral for money to be his motivation to lie about people who need saving. And Hurley doesn’t want the money. He wants nothing to do with money, plus he already has hundreds of millions. Money won’t be a motivator there.

There’s another reason why those two, at least, are holding their tongues.

My theory is that somehow Penny is behind it. Whatever Widmore is up to, Penny is in on it. The O6 trusted Desmond and Desmond trusted Penny. Therefore, the O6 feel that they can trust Penny. She has somehow convinced them that it is very important for them to hide the truth.

[ForeverAutumn]

Just thinking back - remember when that psychic dude Claire visited said she had to take her baby to LA? There would be nice people there to take care of him? - Guess Aaron sort of ended up in LA after all huh? Wonder if I'm reading too much into that...

I was discussing this comment of yours with a friend at work and we were trying to remember exactly what the psychic said to Claire. I went to the ABC website to look up the episode recap. What I found most interesting about it wasn't what the psychic said, but what Locke said to Claire during her nightmare...

Claire wakes to the sound of a baby crying, opens her eyes and looks down to find that she's no longer pregnant. She follows the cries to find Locke, sitting at a desk in the middle of the jungle. He relays a cryptic message to Claire-"He was your responsibility, but you gave him away. Everyone pays the price now." Then he looks up and Claire sees that one eye is light, the other dark.

You can read the full recap here (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=recap#t=38115&d=40642) if you want to.

[kexodusc]

I was discussing this comment of yours with a friend at work and we were trying to remember exactly what the psychic said to Claire. I went to the ABC website to look up the episode recap. What I found most interesting about it wasn't what the psychic said, but what Locke said to Claire during her nightmare...

Claire wakes to the sound of a baby crying, opens her eyes and looks down to find that she's no longer pregnant. She follows the cries to find Locke, sitting at a desk in the middle of the jungle. He relays a cryptic message to Claire-"He was your responsibility, but you gave him away. Everyone pays the price now." Then he looks up and Claire sees that one eye is light, the other dark.

You can read the full recap here (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=recap#t=38115&d=40642) if you want to.
Creepy.

I wonder if Claire losing Aaron is some weird sort of "course correction" or fate or whatever that the show's had as a major theme since inception?
I wonder how they keep track of all this stuff. They must have a archivists recording each fact and testing every new script against prior doctrine just to maintain consistency...hmmm, how does a Lost junkie get a job like that?

[Groundbeef]

Creepy.

I wonder if Claire losing Aaron is some weird sort of "course correction" or fate or whatever that the show's had as a major theme since inception?
I wonder how they keep track of all this stuff. They must have a archivists recording each fact and testing every new script against prior doctrine just to maintain consistency...hmmm, how does a Lost junkie get a job like that?

Nahh, remember, LOST isn't an open-ended drama. It has a defined end point, so that makes the story writing much more linear. No need to "invent" things as time goes on, because they are writing to the conclusion.

This is how ALL drama's should be written. Every show has a defined end point. Keeps the interest, because everyone knows it can't really lose its way.

[ForeverAutumn]

Creepy.

I wonder if Claire losing Aaron is some weird sort of "course correction" or fate or whatever that the show's had as a major theme since inception?
I wonder how they keep track of all this stuff. They must have a archivists recording each fact and testing every new script against prior doctrine just to maintain consistency...hmmm, how does a Lost junkie get a job like that?

Claire's daddy, Christian, can speak on behalf of Jacob. So he obviously has something very powerful to do with the island. Aaron is Christian's grandson.

We have a psychic telling Claire that she must raise the baby herself. Then we have John telling her in a dream that everyone has to pay the price because she gave him away. Another indication that she should be raising Aaron (and, little did we know at the time, some serious foreshadowing)? But then Christian lures Claire away to the cabin and allows Claire to leave Aaron behind.

So whose side is Christian on anyway?

Things are getting very eery.