Upgrading Magnepans

[BOXMAN]

I am currently running Magnepan MGIIa speakers. I personally still love these things!! They are getting a little rough and it is getting time to replace in the near future. I have always wanted a new pair of Magnepans. I have had my eye on the Magnepan 3.6s. Anybody out there running 3.6s? I am looking for some feedback on them. A new pair is quite salty, but my current maggies lasted me quite a long time with great sound so I cant complain. I have tried dynamic speakers and the bottom line is I am a planar guy period. Thanks in advance for your time! I look forward to your input! Jim

[blackraven]

I've got the Q1.6's and wish I had bought the 3.6's when I had the chance. The 3.6's like lots of clean power, 200wpc and higher. You won't be disappointed. I've heard those and the MG20's plenty of times.

[BOXMAN]

Thank you for your input... I am planning on running my Ampzilla II on them. the amp has been fully refurbished and very clean. 200 wpc is the rating. I have a feeling I will love what I hear!!

[blackraven]

Is that at 4ohms? I think the ampzilla is 400wpc at 4ohms if I'm not mistaken. Don't forget, Maggies are 4ohm. I'm running 225wpc of high current power at 4ohms on my 1.6's and I would like to have more. The 3.6's would really do well with 300wpc but should be able to drive them ok with 200watts. There's some one on this forum who has the 3.6's and I think uses a Musicalfidelity integrated with 500wpc.

[Florian]

I had two pair of 3.6's, great value! Plenty of power is needed, but before choosin some bruiser amd or some class D, i would look for an amp with good resolution and sound. :-) They require a good size room with good acoustics also.
Cheers

[Feanor]

I had two pair of 3.6's, great value! Plenty of power is needed, but before choosin some bruiser amd or some class D, i would look for an amp with good resolution and sound. :-) They require a good size room with good acoustics also.
Cheers

Florian has been there and done it. So have I to a lessor degree; I have just the MG 1.6, but I can assure you that any Magneplanar will exploit a great amp. For many years I used a Phase Linear 400, including with the Magneplanar MMGs. The PL 400 put out close to 400wpc @ 4ohms, like the Ampzilla, but what a revelation it was to go first to a NAD C270, (200wpc but a significant improvement), then to Monarchy SM-70 Pro's, (120wpc and a very big improvement).

I suspect blackraven is right that 300watts is the minimum optimal with the 3.6's, but that 200 would do, however it depends how loud you listen.

In any case my advice to BOXMAN, as it is to blackraven, is up grade your amp before you go to the 3.6's.

[BOXMAN]

I had two pair of 3.6's, great value! Plenty of power is needed, but before choosin some bruiser amd or some class D, i would look for an amp with good resolution and sound. :-) They require a good size room with good acoustics also.
Cheers


I really appreciate your input from both of you. Florian, I am a little stunned on your words though...... You are running a Krell on top end and you just asked me to upgrade my amp......?? Krell is decent, but I have heard plenty of Krell, there is no advantage over an updated GAS Ampzilla. I look at krell as a decent midline for component set ups.........

Sure there is a little better out there.... but the big price tag can also work as a great placebo to think it is that much better... Thanks again for your input sir.

[BOXMAN]

Florian has been there and done it. So have I to a lessor degree; I have just the MG 1.6, but I can assure you that any Magneplanar will exploit a great amp. For many years I used a Phase Linear 400, including with the Magneplanar MMGs. The PL 400 put out close to 400wpc @ 4ohms, like the Ampzilla, but what a revelation it was to go first to a NAD C270, (200wpc but a significant improvement), then to Monarchy SM-70 Pro's, (120wpc and a very big improvement).

I suspect blackraven is right that 300watts is the minimum optimal with the 3.6's, but that 200 would do, however it depends how loud you listen.

In any case my advice to BOXMAN, as it is to blackraven, is up grade your amp before you go to the 3.6's.

The 3.6s are 4 ohm I believe... therefore an Ampzilla II would be at 400wpc. I would suspect that would be enough...... and I dont understand why you guys are saying upgrade my amp..........I feel the GAS and Maggies combo is very nice

[Ajani]

The 3.6s are 4 ohm I believe... therefore an Ampzilla II would be at 400wpc. I would suspect that would be enough...... and I dont understand why you guys are saying upgrade my amp..........I feel the GAS and Maggies combo is very nice

LOL... Don't take it personal.... from my very very basic understanding of planars... more watts and larger planars are generally better.... as a result, most planar lovers seem to toss out the 'upgrade your amp' line as a default response (more often than not it maybe correct, but not always)... If you really like the syngery between your amp and the maggies (and it clearly seems to have the watts), then just get bigger maggies...

[BOXMAN]

LOL... Don't take it personal.... from my very very basic understanding of planars... more watts and larger planars are generally better.... as a result, most planar lovers seem to toss out the 'upgrade your amp' line as a default response (more often than not it maybe correct, but not always)... If you really like the syngery between your amp and the maggies (and it clearly seems to have the watts), then just get bigger maggies...

:thumbsup: Cheers to you my friend

[Feanor]

The 3.6s are 4 ohm I believe... therefore an Ampzilla II would be at 400wpc. I would suspect that would be enough...... and I dont understand why you guys are saying upgrade my amp..........I feel the GAS and Maggies combo is very nice

... Is that these old amps, in general, sound like sh!t. There is more to amplifiers than wattage and Magneplanars need more than watts.

[Feanor]

I really appreciate your input from both of you. Florian, I am a little stunned on your words though...... You are running a Krell on top end and you just asked me to upgrade my amp......?? Krell is decent, but I have heard plenty of Krell, there is no advantage over an updated GAS Ampzilla. I look at krell as a decent midline for component set ups.........

Sure there is a little better out there.... but the big price tag can also work as a great placebo to think it is that much better... Thanks again for your input sir.

BOX, if you believe all amps sound the same, you need to clean out your ears. As I alluded to above, I had this personal revelation a few years ago, having lived with a ghastly vintage amp for decades.

[audio amateur]

Krell make incredible amps as of what I've heard and read about them

[GMichael]

I really appreciate your input from both of you. Florian, I am a little stunned on your words though...... You are running a Krell on top end and you just asked me to upgrade my amp......?? Krell is decent, but I have heard plenty of Krell, there is no advantage over an updated GAS Ampzilla. I look at krell as a decent midline for component set ups.........

Sure there is a little better out there.... but the big price tag can also work as a great placebo to think it is that much better... Thanks again for your input sir.

This should go over like a fart in church.

[BOXMAN]

BOX, if you believe all amps sound the same, you need to clean out your ears. As I alluded to above, I had this personal revelation a few years ago, having lived with a ghastly vintage amp for decades.

I do not think all amps sound the same... I am aware of the differences. what I am saying is an updated Ampzilla II can hold its on versus a Krell...... as I mentioned a Krell product is a decent midline component. If you take an upgraded Ampzilla II and run some planars you would be very surprised...... We all have our preferences as well

If you want top notch... (in my eyes) run an Audio Research tri amped system with tubes on top and a set of tympani's..... now that would be worth upgrading to in my opinion....

[nightflier]

Feanor,

I've dipped my toe in the planar pool with the MMGs and decided the water was too cold (& didn't really see what all the hoopla was about), so I am still "boxed-into" a box speaker, as the planar folks like to say. That said, I'm still very interested in the topic.

What I'm wondering is how the Monarchy SM-70 performs with those Maggies. Logic would suggest that an 80/120w amp isn't going to have the grunt to push those speakers to their full potential. I would have opted for the SE-100s, at least. Now don't get me wrong, I haven't heard the Monarchy amps, and I've read nothing but good reviews about them, so I may be way off here, but I'm just wondering how this is working - there seems a to be a logical disconnect from what everyone else is saying about how much power these speakers require.

Boxman, I'm a big fan of PS Audio amps and while they do have a sound that isn't to everyone's liking, they certainly aren't lacking in the power-reserve department. PS Audio amps sell used for less than half the new price (esp. the newer GCC amps) and the older generation amps sell for much less. Hence my belief that they are an excellent value. I have a pair of Classic 250 monoblocks that I picked up for nearly nothing and they are amazing amps for the money - you can find them every once in a while on Audiogon and eBay for $500/pair or thereabouts. The HCA-2 is a 150/225w amp that despite it's class-D roots actually sound quite warm and seems to be popular amp to pair with Maggies. Of course, if you can find a GCA/C-250 or 500 amp used, that would be my suggestion, but the HCA-2 is a very nice amp for $600 used, if the others are too "salty."

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents. If the Monarchy Audios are as good as Feanor says, then they definitely deserve an audition.

[Feanor]

Feanor,

I've dipped my toe in the planar pool with the MMGs and decided the water was too cold (& didn't really see what all the hoopla was about), so I am still "boxed-into" a box speaker, as the planar folks like to say. That said, I'm still very interested in the topic.

What I'm wondering is how the Monarchy SM-70 performs with those Maggies. Logic would suggest that an 80/120w amp isn't going to have the grunt to push those speakers to their full potential. I would have opted for the SE-100s, at least. Now don't get me wrong, I haven't heard the Monarchy amps, and I've read nothing but good reviews about them, so I may be way off here, but I'm just wondering how this is working - there seems a to be a logical disconnect from what everyone else is saying about how much power these speakers require.
...

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents. If the Monarchy Audios are as good as Feanor says, then they definitely deserve an audition.

'Flier,

Perhaps it's of academic interest to you if you're not really interested in Magneplanars ... but a lot people would agree that 200wpc is the "minimum" for the 1.6's, or 300wpc for the 3.6's. The 120wpc Monarchy SM-70 Pro's are working great for me with the 1.6's, but let me explain.

My listening room is a small medium, 12' x 20', although it has a lot of furniture and drapes. The bigger factor is that I don't listen to loud music. I listen to classical mostly, and an average level of <70dB. Of course peaks are much higher, but the SM-70's 60,000uF per side helps with that, no doubt.

I bought the SM-70 Pro's instead of the SE-100's because (1) I saw deal for the former, (2) some pundits said that the former sounded slightly better, especially if run as fully-balance monoblock, and (3) I had a preamp with fully balance operation.

[Feanor]

I do not think all amps sound the same... I am aware of the differences. what I am saying is an updated Ampzilla II can hold its on versus a Krell...... as I mentioned a Krell product is a decent midline component. If you take an upgraded Ampzilla II and run some planars you would be very surprised...... We all have our preferences as well

If you want top notch... (in my eyes) run an Audio Research tri amped system with tubes on top and a set of tympani's..... now that would be worth upgrading to in my opinion....

I'm glad you acknowledge that amps sound different. While I would probably lean to the ARC system myself, I'd waiting for Florian's reaction to your Krell evaluation -- might be fun :D :eek:

[O'Shag]

Boxman, your estimation of an ARC tri-amp setup is spot on. I've not heard this setup on the Maggies (although I heard several maggie systems which sounded very good), but I have heard an ARC tri-amp setup on another speaker system (ARC d'Triamphe so to speak). The sound quality was breathtaking .I'll be setting up a fully tri-amped system in due course, using Mark Levinson No 27 (2 bridged as monoblocks) for the bass, ARC Classic 150 monoblocks for the mid-bass, and ARC Classic 120 for the midrange and tweeters. I've just tried tri-wiring, and was astonished by the results!!!

[audio amateur]

This should go over like a fart in church.

Couldn't have put it better

[BOXMAN]

Boxman, your estimation of an ARC tri-amp setup is spot on. I've not heard this setup on the Maggies (although I heard several maggie systems which sounded very good), but I have heard an ARC tri-amp setup on another speaker system (ARC d'Triamphe so to speak). The sound quality was breathtaking .I'll be setting up a fully tri-amped system in due course, using Mark Levinson No 27 (2 bridged as monoblocks) for the bass, ARC Classic 150 monoblocks for the mid-bass, and ARC Classic 120 for the midrange and tweeters. I've just tried tri-wiring, and was astonished by the results!!!

Glad you also think so!..... I will one day build an ARC system with maggies.... but I am really happy with GAS equipment. Maybe they match real good with maggies.... I dont know, but it works out nicely. I will admit I put a set of dynamics on the Ampzilla, and I quickly said.... man I got to hook my maggies back up!! and by the way, I like your amp set up you have!! Classic 120 should go nice on the top end!! If you ask me, the older equipment is the real deal!

[nightflier]

'Flier, Perhaps it's of academic interest to you if you're not really interested in Magneplanars ... but a lot people would agree that 200wpc is the "minimum" for the 1.6's, or 300wpc for the 3.6's. The 120wpc Monarchy SM-70 Pro's are working great for me with the 1.6's, but let me explain.

While I am fairly happy with what I have, I also know from hearing other systems, that this isn't anywhere near where I want to be as far as speakers. I haven't settled on a pair yet and one of the attractive features of the Maggies to me is that when not in use, I can push them against the wall, which is not so easy with my current speakers. What is not attractive is having to power them with amps that take up more floor space than the speakers themselves (not to mention suck electricity right out of the wall and act like furnaces to boot). Your choice of Monarchy amps is a refreshing alternative opinion.

As far as your taste in music, your room, and the price point, we probably have a lot in common. I guess what I was asking is how do they really sound? Do you hear the limitations of the amp during passages with a wide dynamic range (e.g. Hovhaness, Strauss, Khachaturian)? Have you experienced any clipping? Is there compression in the frequency extremes?

As a side issue, did you try any class-D type amps? Of so, what did you or didn't you like about them?

[E-Stat]

I do not think all amps sound the same... I am aware of the differences. what I am saying is an updated Ampzilla II can hold its on versus a Krell...... as I mentioned a Krell product is a decent midline component. If you take an upgraded Ampzilla II and run some planars you would be very surprised...... We all have our preferences as well
The Ampzilla should work nicely. I confess that I'm not a big Krell fan having heard a couple. Clean, but too sterile for my perception of live. Back in the 70's, D'Agostino used to be a rep for Dayton-Wright electrostatics and Dunlap-Clarke amps. Those amps share a similar house sound to the Krell stuff I've heard. I'd focus on speaker placement and room treatments.


f you want top notch... (in my eyes) run an Audio Research tri amped system with tubes on top and a set of tympani's..... now that would be worth upgrading to in my opinion....
That's how I heard my first Maggies back in '74. Tri-amped T-IIIs with an SP-3a and three D-76as. Got me hooked on planars. I had a pair of MG-IIs myself back in the 70s. You should enjoy moving up to 3.6s. The true ribbon tweeter is really sweet.

Good luck!

rw

[Florian]

Your comment is like saying that you have heard one electrostatic, did not like it, so all electrostatics are not to your taste. ^^ There is Krell and then there is KRELL. A small KSA is in no way in the same league as a KAS or a MRA. I run 8 amplifiers actually, the Krell Audio Standard (old style pure class a master reference series) is only for the tweeters (2m long ribbon from 9Khz up, fully active made for this driver by Todd Eichbaum from Krell).

I understand your liking of the Ampzilla, i personally had 2x Ampzilla 2000 Monoblocks and Stereo. I sold them, but i had them :-) Nice milky foggy kinda sound. Good for beer and music.

[BOXMAN]

Your comment is like saying that you have heard one electrostatic, did not like it, so all electrostatics are not to your taste. ^^ There is Krell and then there is KRELL. A small KSA is in no way in the same league as a KAS or a MRA. I run 8 amplifiers actually, the Krell Audio Standard (old style pure class a master reference series) is only for the tweeters (2m long ribbon from 9Khz up, fully active made for this driver by Todd Eichbaum from Krell).

I understand your liking of the Ampzilla, i personally had 2x Ampzilla 2000 Monoblocks and Stereo. I sold them, but i had them :-) Nice milky foggy kinda sound. Good for beer and music.

I can appreciate your love for the KRELL equipment..... and I can agree with you that they sound decent..... but for a person the runs Krell, and asks me to upgrade my amp.... I must laugh! Like I said before, Krell makes good midline components. This isnt ARC or Mark Levinson were talkin about...... and you can have that Ampzilla 2000 stuff. I have a fully updated 1978 Ampzilla II, and I promise you it isnt good for just beer and music. It is good for pushing maggies and letting the guys who just bought into the $8K "modern amps placebo" start crying. Hopefully one day you will see past the big price tag equipment that usually isnt that much better.

[Florian]

If you would have actually taken the time to analyze my setup and read some of my past posts, you would have known that i am not a Krell fan and that my speaker is not powered by Krell solely. Actually, i believe you never looked at my system at all. Further, i do not believe in your "experience", its fine that you like your older Ampzilla, i was not giving you a recommendation to update it, but to say that Krell is not in the same league as Mark Levinson or Audio Research, will set most guys on this forum in a laughing state. Maybe your are confusing Krell Industries with a different Brand?

Anyway, i hope you will find a speaker to your liking. Like i said, i had two pair of 3.6's. And even if i where to like your Ampzilla amp, it would not be able to drive my 1.3ohm tweeter ribbon. If you do not apreciate my comments, then please say so and i will ignore your posts from now on.

Cheers

Florian

PS: 8000$ for a modern reference monoblock from Krell? <-- Got a link to a seller?

[BOXMAN]

I had two pair of 3.6's, great value! Plenty of power is needed, but before choosin some bruiser amd or some class D, i would look for an amp with good resolution and sound. :-) They require a good size room with good acoustics also.
Cheers

I am "requoting" what you posted a few days ago..... Perhaps you forgot what you posted... and all that I am saying, is someone running Krell in no way shape or form can logically tell me I need an amp with good resolution and sound... that is funny!

Yes I know Krell very well. I have two dealers here in Indianapolis. the stores are mainly home theatre stuff. they opened a high end store... to have brands like Cary and ARC... and guess what, Krell isnt in that store. Funny how that worked out........enjoy your equipment sir, because you sure paid for it!

[Feanor]

The Ampzilla should work nicely. I confess that I'm not a big Krell fan having heard a couple. Clean, but too sterile for my perception of live. Back in the 70's, D'Agostino used to be a rep for Dayton-Wright electrostatics and Dunlap-Clarke amps. Those amps share a similar house sound to the Krell stuff I've heard. I'd focus on speaker placement and room treatments.

That's how I heard my first Maggies back in '74. Tri-amped T-IIIs with an SP-3a and three D-76as. Got me hooked on planars. I had a pair of MG-IIs myself back in the 70s. You should enjoy moving up to 3.6s. The true ribbon tweeter is really sweet.

Good luck!

rw

E-Stat, my advice to BOXMAN is the same as my advice to blackraven: Magneplanar speakers will exploit a really fine amp, so prioritize a good amp ahead of a speaker upgrade. I have not heard BOX's Amplzilla II; I haven't heard the Outlaw monoblocks blackraven was considering. However I have heard various vintage and mid-fi amps, and they weren't good enough, not even with the MMGs much less the 3.6's.

If BOXMAN is confident the Ampzilla II as the necessary qualities, then he should go for the 3.6's; the Ampzilla ought to have the juice, at least, to drive them. On the other hand, based on his Krell and placebo comments, I'm not sure that is confidence in the Ampzilla II's sound qualities is well placed.

[Florian]

I knew there was a reason why i stopped posting on this site and helping n00bs.

:nonod:

[Feanor]

While I am fairly happy with what I have, I also know from hearing other systems, that this isn't anywhere near where I want to be as far as speakers. I haven't settled on a pair yet and one of the attractive features of the Maggies to me is that when not in use, I can push them against the wall, which is not so easy with my current speakers. What is not attractive is having to power them with amps that take up more floor space than the speakers themselves (not to mention suck electricity right out of the wall and act like furnaces to boot). Your choice of Monarchy amps is a refreshing alternative opinion.

As far as your taste in music, your room, and the price point, we probably have a lot in common. I guess what I was asking is how do they really sound? Do you hear the limitations of the amp during passages with a wide dynamic range (e.g. Hovhaness, Strauss, Khachaturian)? Have you experienced any clipping? Is there compression in the frequency extremes?

As a side issue, did you try any class-D type amps? Of so, what did you or didn't you like about them?

nightflier,

The qualities of Magneplanars are apprciated by a lot of people, me one of them, although the small and mid-sized models aren't for rock music.

With the Monarchy SM-70 Pros, no, I haven't notice any compression and I certaintly haven't experienced clipping. I have run my 1.6s with over 320wpc using an Adcom 555II, and I don't feel I'm loosing anything in the bass for example. But I do attribute this to two factors: (1) I listen a low average levels, i.e. <70dB except for peaks, and (2) the reserve capacity of the of the Monarchys, 60,000uF per monoblock. A third factor might be the SM-70 Pro's, (but not all Monarchy models), provide better micro-dynamics, per Monarchy Audio, when driven by a balanced signal which, in my case, they are.

Yes, I've used a class 'D' amp. Actually a Bel Canto eVo2i 'Tripath' with 200wpc. The Bel was a very nice, extremely transparent amp, but I prefer the SM-70 Pro's with about 85% of recordings. The Monarchys are warmer and more "organic" while giving up very, very little transparency; they are also as or more dynamic and do bass just as well at my listening levels. Still, I would find it interesting to hear a good switching amp in combo with the tube preamp I acquired after giving up the Bel Canto.

[E-Stat]

Your comment is like saying that you have heard one electrostatic, did not like it, so all electrostatics are not to your taste. ^^ There is Krell and then there is KRELL. A small KSA is in no way in the same league as a KAS or a MRA.
Agreed, but my comments were not based upon a "small KSA". Never heard one of those.

rw

[Florian]

E-Stat, my comment was adressed to BOXMAN. I never said that i thought his amp was not good enough, i didnt even mean to upgrade it. In fact, ALL i said was that i would prefer a sublime musical amp, with less maximum power over a big solid state beast. And ever since i made that friendly recommendation i have to listen to stuff like "I wont accept advice from someone who is running middle class equipment like Krell" :confused5:

Hello Earth? ^^

[E-Stat]

E-Stat, my advice to BOXMAN is the same as my advice to blackraven: Magneplanar speakers will exploit a really fine amp, so prioritize a good amp ahead of a speaker upgrade.
That's fine, but I will readily admit I'm a speaker guy. Have you ever heard a pair of 70s vintage MG-IIas? They are nice, but not in the same league as your 1.6s. Surely, there are better sounding amps than the 'zilla, but I would start building a system with a great speaker first. Just a difference of approach.

rw

[E-Stat]

E-Stat, my comment was adressed to BOXMAN.
I wasn't sure, so I switched my display mode to threaded. Evidently, you read my comments just before responding and thus posted yours as a reply to mine.

Krell is most certainly not "middle class equipment" in my book either.

rw

[Feanor]

That's fine, but I will readily admit I'm a speaker guy. Have you ever heard a pair of 70s vintage MG-IIas? They are nice, but not in the same league as your 1.6s. Surely, there are better sounding amps than the 'zilla, but I would start building a system with a great speaker first. Just a difference of approach.

rw

... I.e. that the MG IIas are "not in the same league as [the] 1.6s", you might well be right.

For my part, I am a speaker primacy guy too. It's just that current Magneplanars are so good that a significant amp upgrade can be justified. I drove $550 MMGs with a $3000 Bel Canto and I don't feel I was wrong to do so even though I eventually upgraded to the MG 1.6QRs. Which gave me the most value, Bel Canto or $1900 MG 1.6? It's a hard call: they did different things.

[audio amateur]

I knew there was a reason why i stopped posting on this site and helping n00bs.

:nonod:
Don't bother;) I don't...

[E-Stat]

...you might well be right.
I sold and owned MG-IIs. The biggest improvement with Maggies over the decades is the top, IMO. Actually, the big Timpanis were stellar bass performers. Remember HP's QRS-1D system?


It's a hard call: they did different things.
I'll certainly agree. I am amazed how good the updated double Advents in my vintage system can sound with a Manley tube output DAC/line stage and Threshold amp driving them. :)

rw

[GMichael]

I knew there was a reason why i stopped posting on this site and helping n00bs.

:nonod:

I listen. Someday I may even learn something. Till then, since those Krells of yours are only mid-fi, think you could send them to me? Two would be enough.

Thanks,

[Florian]

I listen. Someday I may even learn something. Till then, since those Krells of yours are only mid-fi, think you could send them to me? Two would be enough.

Thanks,

You dont want my cheap Krell stuff, besides its build into the speakers. You would have to take my cheap speakers also, and thats just a waste of space. I will relieve you of this bother and just keep them :)

[GMichael]

You dont want my cheap Krell stuff, besides its build into the speakers. You would have to take my cheap speakers also, and thats just a waste of space. I will relieve you of this bother and just keep them :)

I don't mind. Really. I'll give them a good home.
I have a good sized basement and nothing on one side. Something to take up the space would be great.

[Florian]

I don't mind. Really. I'll give them a good home.
I have a good sized basement and nothing on one side. Something to take up the space would be great.

I'll think about it and let you know ^^

[GMichael]

Why do I get the feeling that it won't take long to come to an answer here?

[Florian]

Why do I get the feeling that it won't take long to come to an answer here?

Dont be so sure, i only got into this hobby to show off. When people start turning away from my midfi, then i have to invest into some real gear! ^^

[GMichael]

Bet they'd make my Mini's sing.

[nightflier]

Feanor, it sounds like I will definitely have to audition a pair of SM-70s. And the price is also very attractive. I am currently auditioning a PS Audio GCC-250 for possible purchase and must say it is a very nice amp, albeit far from being warm. This, for me, puts that amp in the testing system category, and not the sit-down-enjoy-and-listen-system, which at its price-point is steep for me. But if I do decide to keep it, I will definitely revisit the Maggies, and given my budget that would have to be the 1.6qr, although I will definitely keep my eyes open for the 3.6s on A-gon and elsewhere. Thanks for bringing up the Monarchy amps as they were completely erased from my radar because of their power-rating.

Too many choices and too little time....

Regarding the other discussion about Krell, I know I haven't heard much in the $8K and up category of amps, but to my ears, I have yet to hear a better amp - Krell makes a fantastic product if, and this is the big IF, one's tastes lean to the dryer more airy side. That said, it does seem that this is typical of amps in that price-range, which has led me to believe that this is the high-end in sound. If that's not the case, then I have a lot left to discover.

[blackraven]

Hey nightflier, where are the high end audio shops located by you. I come out to visit my mother who lives in Laguna Woods and my brother who lives in Seal Beach about 3 times a year and I will be coming out there in Feb. I always have several hours to kill when I'm out there. I've looked in the Seal beach yellow pages and can't find any hi end shops listed. Thanks!
Larry, frozen in Minnesota. It was -10F here the other night!

[jrhymeammo]

I've also tried planar speakers for a brief period. My system consisted of:

MG 1.6QR thru BAT VK-3i and PSA HCA-2.

I thought that was the most inconsistance system I've ever had. When it sounded bad, I had often went for a pair of headphones. But once in a while, it sounded magnifent and made me want to upgrade my pre and power amp.

HCA-2 sounds smooth and clean with my current pair of box speakers, but sounded stale and dry with maggies 90% of the time... Based on what I've read and heard from others, Class D just may not be the thing for maggies.

JRA

[Mr Peabody]

Calling Krell mid-fi is just inflametory. I've heard the 300i integrated to their 650 monoblocks, I also heard some reference Evolution but I can't remember the model. In each case for the level they were, they are outstanding. I can see how some could say cool or clinical, especially if you are used to tubes but not mid-fi. There aren't many amps that can rival the transcient response of Krell amps.

They are expensive and not well circulated, especially in the U.S. yet, but if you want to hear switching amps sound fabulous check out T+A.

BTW - www.spearitsound.com has a used ARC sp9 mkII for sale used $750.00. I'm not sure what these go for usually, used, but I get the impression the sp9 is a cherry preamp and $750.00 for that kind of performance is cheap.

[BOXMAN]

BTW - www.spearitsound.com has a used ARC sp9 mkII for sale used $750.00. I'm not sure what these go for usually, used, but I get the impression the sp9 is a cherry preamp and $750.00 for that kind of performance is cheap.

Good Preamp!

[bubslewis]

Good Preamp!


But kinda middle level? (Sorry BOXMAN, I couldn't resist)

:18:

[nightflier]

Hey nightflier, where are the high end audio shops located by you. I come out to visit my mother who lives in Laguna Woods and my brother who lives in Seal Beach about 3 times a year and I will be coming out there in Feb. I always have several hours to kill when I'm out there. I've looked in the Seal beach yellow pages and can't find any hi end shops listed. Thanks!
Larry, frozen in Minnesota. It was -10F here the other night!

There used to be more, but now most shops have converted to home-installation and HT - I hear they do excellent drywall work, LOL. Genesis Audio & Video is a good example of this trend, that is, if they actually let you in the door (by apt. only). The fact is that I actually have to go pretty far out to hear good stuff. There's a few boutique shops up in LA that sell your B&O ostentatious stuff, but I try to steer clear of those types of shops. Upscale Audio is not too far, out in Upland, and I go whenever I visit my brother who lives out there. But most of what we've auditioned has been mail-order. One of my friends is an importer from the far east so he brings over stuff with unknown names that sounds pretty good to my ears at least, and I take a trip across the pond every once in while to pick up some goodies, although this last time I didn't get around to that.

Of more interest to me are the local manufacturers. There are a number of them here that might be of interest. Von Schweikert has til now given me the cold shoulder so I can't recommend them (I guess if you're not in the market for $25K speakers...). There's also Oppo, Hsu, Canary Audio, Olevia, not too far out. And in the Santa Barbara area, where I also visit quite often, there's Spectron, Theta Digital, and Channel Islands up in Port Hueneme. I mention them because I've visited each recently (I'll be picking up my Digital One amp in Chatsworth shortly), but there's a ton of others in the greater LA area that I can't think of off the top of my head.

[BOXMAN]

I went to my local Maggie dealer over the weekend.... they had a pair of 3.6s and 1.6s.... I want to say they both sounded great! I will also say, so do my MGIIa speakers! I have chosen to rebuild the IIa speakers. I dont hear that much of a difference in the new Maggies vs the old maggies........... I will say the low end on the 3.6s was definitely better... but I like to run VMPS woofers on low end anyways.... so that is my $.02
Maggies are great regardless!!

[Feanor]

I went to my local Maggie dealer over the weekend.... they had a pair of 3.6s and 1.6s.... I want to say they both sounded great! I will also say, so do my MGIIa speakers! I have chosen to rebuild the IIa speakers. I dont hear that much of a difference in the new Maggies vs the old maggies........... I will say the low end on the 3.6s was definitely better... but I like to run VMPS woofers on low end anyways.... so that is my $.02
Maggies are great regardless!!

Good luck with the rebuild of the MGIIa's, BOXMAN. Let us know how it goes.

[BOXMAN]

Well....... 20hrs of precise and tedious work, the Maggies have been rebuilt. They sound pretty good, I am supposed to play them at light volume for approx 100hrs to get optimum sound. I am definitely going to keep these for a while. $4500 for new ones doesnt seem to be justifiable when I am hearing very sweet sound at the moment from a rebuilt 30yr old speaker..........

[Feanor]

Well....... 20hrs of precise and tedious work, the Maggies have been rebuilt. They sound pretty good, I am supposed to play them at light volume for approx 100hrs to get optimum sound. I am definitely going to keep these for a while. $4500 for new ones doesnt seem to be justifiable when I am hearing very sweet sound at the moment from a rebuilt 30yr old speaker..........

BOXMAN, was the rebuild a DIY job or done by Magnepan or someone else?

[BOXMAN]

BOXMAN, was the rebuild a DIY job or done by Magnepan or someone else?

I did it. I rebuilt the tweeter and the mid/bass section......

[oaqm]

Were those your pictures of a rewire over on AA last week?

Very impressive in any event. You have far steadier hands than mine.

[BOXMAN]

Were those your pictures of a rewire over on AA last week?

Very impressive in any event. You have far steadier hands than mine.

Thank you oaqm!! Its just very time consuming and tedious!... Basically you have a spray adhesive to help you along to get all of the wires straight and in the place that you want them... then you put two coats of a final adhesive... 30-NF by 3M.....
20hrs later it is done.... The speakers sound great now!!

Here are a few pics........

Here are a couple with factory wires before rebuild

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u37/jhamiltonR/Pan2.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u37/jhamiltonR/Pan1.jpg

and during the process of laying down the wires......you have time to straighten them completely before the spray adhesive dries... the one pic shows the wires a little crooked..... but of course straightened before final glue is applied........

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u37/jhamiltonR/Voicecoilwires1.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u37/jhamiltonR/Wirescomplete.jpg

and..... finished product

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u37/jhamiltonR/Completedbottomview.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u37/jhamiltonR/Completedtotalview.jpg

[meltdown]

I just had to get in to this. New to the forum, but I got to say, I've heard the 3.6's with the Ampzilla on several occasions.... and theres no doubt that this amp is a little known secret. Yeah its a bit long in the tooth, but it had NO problem driving these speakers, And I mean crystal clear, period. Ive got a old pair of MG1C's and have ran them with Gas, Carver, Phase Linear, Rotel 1090's and now a Mac. Which sounds better? They each exhibit their own personalities, and I have enjoyed swapping amps out over the years. But for 500 bucks you can get yourself into a Gas Amp and nothing in that price range will touch it. The same goes for their Thedra or Thobe preamps.

[Mr Peabody]

Let me say up front I don't know anything about Ampzilla, but with a name like that it's hard to take it seriously. It may be a great amp, Ampzilla sounds like something you see being sold out of a white van. If they are a great amp the company needs a new marketing department :)

[meltdown]

It wasnt my intention to step on someones feet, only to make a statement about the object of the topic. If your not familiar with GAS vintage amps, you may consider a bit of research, the topic was in part about Gas amps and their ability to drive Maggies,

[Mr Peabody]

My intension was not to step on toes either but to merely make an observation since Ampzilla had been talked about on this thread.

[Mike Anderson]

3.6 owner here.

I started with the MMGs, then the 1.6QRs, then to the 3.6Rs.

Let me put it this way: I've had the 3.6Rs now for quite some time, and I have stopped looking for ways to upgrade! They simply sound as good as I could want a system to sound, without spending $50k anyway.

I'm powering them with four Class D monoblocks. I use a DEQX unit as the crossover and preamp, and to do room correction. I've got 1000 wpc going into the bass panels, and 500 wpc going into the mid and treble. Sounds fantastic.

I won't be making any changes to this setup anytime soon. It just sounds way too good to f*** with it.

(In fact that's a big part of the reason why I haven't been posting as much here lately)

[meltdown]

My intension was not to step on toes either but to merely make an observation since Ampzilla had been talked about on this thread.
Fair enough Mr. Peabody: and I would have to agree that Krell is by no stretch of the imagination a middle of the road amp. And for the record , back in the day, I did drink alot of beer while listening to the Gas equipment.

[BOXMAN]

Let me say up front I don't know anything about Ampzilla, but with a name like that it's hard to take it seriously. It may be a great amp, Ampzilla sounds like something you see being sold out of a white van. If they are a great amp the company needs a new marketing department :)

Please dont take this insulting... this is how it is:

A few companies back in the 1970s were the Icon of hi fi, and were the start to some great equipment that is out today. GAS is one of those companies....... GAS equipment is now 30 yrs old, and it is still thought of as great sounding equipment....(well the people who listen for great sound, and now just high $ stuff to brag about in their system)

If you have never heard of GAS ampzilla... you apparently you have been shopping at Best Buy my friend.... Any audiophile knows the originals of this field..

SME/Technics/Dalquist/SAE/GAS/Phase Linear etc........the list goes on

[BOXMAN]

I just had to get in to this. New to the forum, but I got to say, I've heard the 3.6's with the Ampzilla on several occasions.... and theres no doubt that this amp is a little known secret. Yeah its a bit long in the tooth, but it had NO problem driving these speakers, And I mean crystal clear, period. Ive got a old pair of MG1C's and have ran them with Gas, Carver, Phase Linear, Rotel 1090's and now a Mac. Which sounds better? They each exhibit their own personalities, and I have enjoyed swapping amps out over the years. But for 500 bucks you can get yourself into a Gas Amp and nothing in that price range will touch it. The same goes for their Thedra or Thobe preamps.

Thank you for your input meltdown! I appreciate it.... I was thinking an Ampzilla could push the 3.6s, but people who have never heard an Ampzilla seem to think it cant push them......

[Glen B]

Let me say up front I don't know anything about Ampzilla, but with a name like that it's hard to take it seriously. It may be a great amp, Ampzilla sounds like something you see being sold out of a white van. If they are a great amp the company needs a new marketing department :)

You need to educate yourself about audio history. Have you ever heard of Mr. James Bongiorno, world renowned and highly respected pioneer of audio design ? He is the designer of the Ampzilla and many other highly regarded and collectable audio products under various brand names. The amplifier you currently own is very likely based on the full dual differential full complementary amplifier topology he first developed. All modern direct coupled amps employ DC servo control. Guess who designed the first amp using that technology ? Please go to the following links and read up on Mr. Bongiorno's curriculum vitae.
http://www.ampzilla2000.com/index.html
http://www.ampzilla2000.com/James_Bongiorno.html

[meltdown]

Boxman, you got to give it a rest. Some people hav'nt played around with that equipment. I have a couple friends who have your amp, both have sent them to Gas Works to be reworked, and yeah their a great A A/B amp, that pushes alot of current and they will do well with your Maggies. Heck, I got two of the big boys along with a couple sons in my closet right next to me, but everybody has a different ear. and their taste changes. But one really can't try and compare a pure class A amp with one that only does A out to about 10 watts. I've listened to CJ and Mac tubes, and it is truely impressive. Besides if they sold Dynaudio at Best Buy, I'd be in the truck now. HE HE. Have fun with the Zilla.

[meltdown]

Good point Glen, Jim was cutting edge back then. If you bring his name up in the Carver Audio forum, those people will toss a brick through your screen.LOL.

[Mr Peabody]

I'll check the link. Ampzilla just wasn't in my circle of friends. You mention Levinson, ARC, Mac, etc. those are what I started out hearing. I didn't even really know about Krell until the mid 90's. Hey, I started out in a small town and I'm not all that old. In the 70's as a youth, you were the man if you had a big receiver and some Bose 901's. Here beat me some more because I have no respect for Bob Carver's products, his name sake, Flamelinear or Sunfire. Back in the day Carver sounded much better than the receivers and things I was used to but all of his stuff has serious reliability issues. Before you try to dispute that, I did work in a hi fi store in the 80's and we carried Carver for a very short while, we all nicknamed it "boomerang". Where I live now Sunfire came and went as fast in a couple stores who tried it. The manager wasn't shy about explaining what happened to it.

Besides, my comments had nothing to do with the performance of the amp, it was merely a comment on the teeny bopper name.

[meltdown]

Thats a good one, I should'nt laugh,, I still have a couple of M500's. Never had a problem with them though. Yeah the Industry has really opened up, I dont know why I hang on to the old gear. I must be part pack rat. Someday my kids will look at it and, Phif....right in the garbage no doubt.

[Mr Peabody]

Hopefully the kids will see the value. I didn't intend to end up with a bunch of gear around but it just seems to happen. We find something we like better, or is just a different presentation than what we currently have, so we switch out, but our fondness of the piece won't let us get rid of it.

Mr Bongiomo has some interesting writings on that website. It's interesting to me how various engineers seem to have the perfect way music should be done. I forget his name but the engineer behind Dynavector has a totally different approach to music reproduction as well. His is a four speaker set up with smaller speakers in front with larger behind. He has some kind of processor that you can use with your current gear. It's been a long time since I read about his set up but it was interesting. With all the confusion now with home theater can you imagine if some of these guys got their different systems off the ground?

[meltdown]

Bob Carver moved on to Home Theater, but things went sour. Marriage and all. The ex took him to the cleaners. He still has a big following. Its almost a religion. The man is idolized, much the same as Jim Bongiomo of Great American Sound. They each contributed to our appreciation of music in his own way. I would like to think that Gas would of kept to stereo, but the times had changed and we started to get wrapped up in the age of Home Theater. But I believe that things are coming full circle once again and more and more people are developing a yen for the simpler, fresher side of music once known as Stereo. Aside from it being solid state or tube, it comes down to not only preferance put how deep your pockets are. Mine got holes in them.

[audio amateur]

Please dont take this insulting... this is how it is:

A few companies back in the 1970s were the Icon of hi fi, and were the start to some great equipment that is out today. GAS is one of those companies....... GAS equipment is now 30 yrs old, and it is still thought of as great sounding equipment....(well the people who listen for great sound, and now just high $ stuff to brag about in their system)

If you have never heard of GAS ampzilla... you apparently you have been shopping at Best Buy my friend.... Any audiophile knows the originals of this field..

SME/Technics/Dalquist/SAE/GAS/Phase Linear etc........the list goes on
Let's remember that this is coming from someone who believes Krell is mid-fi stuff. What bull

[BOXMAN]

Let's remember that this is coming from someone who believes Krell is mid-fi stuff. What bull


Fair enough Mr. Peabody: and I would have to agree that Krell is by no stretch of the imagination a middle of the road amp..


uuhhh yeah,,,,, the audio shop in Indianapolis that sells Krell along wit Mac and Polk... opened a hi fi shop and guess what....... no krell, huh?!?! Wonder why?? they do carry BAT and ARC etc...... You do the math

So besides the above, go listen to a Krell amp... not that impressive......

[bobsticks]

uuhhh yeah,,,,, the audio shop in Indianapolis that sells Krell along wit Mac and Polk... opened a hi fi shop and guess what....... no krell, huh?!?! Wonder why?? they do carry BAT and ARC etc...... You do the math

So besides the above, go listen to a Krell amp... not that impressive......

Which audio shop do you go to BOXMAN? I frequent AudioSolutions over in Broadripple...Graham and the boys are topnotch.

[Feanor]

uuhhh yeah,,,,, the audio shop in Indianapolis that sells Krell along wit Mac and Polk... opened a hi fi shop and guess what....... no krell, huh?!?! Wonder why?? they do carry BAT and ARC etc...... You do the math

So besides the above, go listen to a Krell amp... not that impressive......

There is room for preference when it comes to amps. Krell won't be my choice either, but I won't typify Krell as "mid-fi": it does some things extremely well, especially of course, the high-end models.

Me? What would I like to drive my Maggies? Well, not an Ampzilla ... I'd like a Pass Labs X250.5
...

[BOXMAN]

Which audio shop do you go to BOXMAN? I frequent AudioSolutions over in Broadripple...Graham and the boys are topnotch.

Yep, those guys are great! I have been checkin out the new hi fi store in Castleton called Ovation Ultimate. They are the local Maggie dealer now... and they have Wilsons and Focals in stock and I enjoy listening to those..... still a planar guy, but those brands can make a dynamic speaker!!

Didnt AudioSolutions stop carrying ARC? I think that is one of my main reasons for not swinging by there as often.......

[Mr Peabody]

First of all Boxman, if that is your opinion, I respect that, but it's difficult to understand how anyone could consider Phase Linear high end and then not recognize the superiority of Krell. Krell is a different breed of amp than Mac or ARC. Krell doesn't make you all warm and fuzzy listening to it but what it does do is reproduce the transcient response of real music like none other. Krell is also the apitomy of control. This can sometimes be a detriment for them to the untrained ear. What I mean by untrained is some one who is used to the typical amps with booming flabby bass and thinks that is bass. If you listen to a drum kit live and then to Krell with the proper speakers, like Dynaudio, the capability of Krell to reproduce the snap and impact of a live drum kit is nothing short of amazing. In order to do that they use extreme current for source to output. This can sometimes deliver a sound that some can't embrace and that's fine. BAT, ARC and Mac are all fine amps in their own right but none of them come close to delivering the strenths that Krell can offer. Well, maybe the exception of BAT solid state which I have not been fortunate enough to hear. Conversely, Krell falls short in the strenths some of those amps offer, for instance, Krell will never be warm and "musical" as a Mac, well, unless they change drastically :) It just depends on what you personally want your musical presentation to be.

I think the choice not to carry Krell has nothing to do with their sound. Our local Krell dealer who are diehard Krell supporters currently have nothing on display. When inquiring they just say things are up in the air right now, they haven't officially dropped the line but it's obvious they aren't selling any either. They are tight lipped on what's going on but with what you are saying about the other dealer, I really wonder..... is Krell being too demanding, is there a lack of product.... is there a story here or just coincidence.

[BOXMAN]

First of all Boxman, if that is your opinion, I respect that, but it's difficult to understand how anyone could consider Phase Linear high end and then not recognize the superiority of Krell. Krell is a different breed of amp than Mac or ARC. Krell doesn't make you all warm and fuzzy listening to it but what it does do is reproduce the transcient response of real music like none other. Krell is also the apitomy of control. This can sometimes be a detriment for them to the untrained ear. What I mean by untrained is some one who is used to the typical amps with booming flabby bass and thinks that is bass. If you listen to a drum kit live and then to Krell with the proper speakers, like Dynaudio, the capability of Krell to reproduce the snap and impact of a live drum kit is nothing short of amazing. In order to do that they use extreme current for source to output. This can sometimes deliver a sound that some can't embrace and that's fine. BAT, ARC and Mac are all fine amps in their own right but none of them come close to delivering the strenths that Krell can offer. Well, maybe the exception of BAT solid state which I have not been fortunate enough to hear. Conversely, Krell falls short in the strenths some of those amps offer, for instance, Krell will never be warm and "musical" as a Mac, well, unless they change drastically :) It just depends on what you personally want your musical presentation to be.

I think the choice not to carry Krell has nothing to do with their sound. Our local Krell dealer who are diehard Krell supporters currently have nothing on display. When inquiring they just say things are up in the air right now, they haven't officially dropped the line but it's obvious they aren't selling any either. They are tight lipped on what's going on but with what you are saying about the other dealer, I really wonder..... is Krell being too demanding, is there a lack of product.... is there a story here or just coincidence.


Unfortunately it is hard to sit here and compare products... everything sounds different with different components, cartridge, speakers, interconnects etc...... So discussions like this can be very inaccurate........

I will never say Phase Linear is high end.... I will say that a Phase Linear amp is solid and has the balls to push Maggies....... the amp could be a little harsh.. I have never heard a 400. That was my point on that. I run GAS amps that have been reconditioned. When ran with Maggies, I think they have a great sound.. can I get better, you bet!! That much better... I personally dont think so..especially for the money!

I am not a fan of Mac gear... ARC, I like... certain products of theirs are very hard to beat!! They had a couple of "soso" products... but for the most part, great equipment! Can Krell bring life like sounds to the table?, maybe with the correct speakers... but Krell equipment is not in the same league as hi end stuff... I had a discussion with Florian about this... Here is a guy with a great stereo.... Can you get that sound with half the money, yes! He can now brag on this forum with his Grands etc... He runs Krells and other amps to push them.... He prob paid over $10K per Krell reference amp on that stereo... if he likes it, great! I would have obviously chosen a different line.. and to go as big as he did (we call it braggin rights here in Indiana) I wouldve thought he would have went bigger on the amps... to each their own!

I just wish you could have the chance to hear your Dynaudios with an Ampzilla pushing them.... you would then be a believer my friend.......

[bobsticks]

Yep, those guys are great! I have been checkin out the new hi fi store in Castleton called Ovation Ultimate. They are the local Maggie dealer now... and they have Wilsons and Focals in stock and I enjoy listening to those..... still a planar guy, but those brands can make a dynamic speaker!!

Didnt AudioSolutions stop carrying ARC? I think that is one of my main reasons for not swinging by there as often.......

Yup, ARC went the way of the dodo there, though I think there may be some used units upstairs. They're currently concentrating on Mac, Cary and Classe but there's all kinds of goodies stashed away. Great service and accomodations too, I enjoyed home auditions with A Mac 861 and Krell SACD Standard and wasn't even asked to put a credit card down. Just try that at a standard B&M. Real "family" type stuff.

Thanks for the tip on Ovation. Next time I'm uptown I'll check it out...a boy can't have too many toys...

[audio amateur]

I had a discussion with Florian about this... Here is a guy with a great stereo.... Can you get that sound with half the money, yes! He can now brag on this forum with his Grands etc... He runs Krells and other amps to push them.... He prob paid over $10K per Krell reference amp on that stereo...
I bet that's not what he says..


He prob paid over $10K per Krell reference amp on that stereo...
Don't believe he paid that much, in fact i'm pretty sure of it.

[BOXMAN]

Don't believe he paid that much, in fact i'm pretty sure of it.

If you read back in this thread he was braggin about it chief.....

and I wont even tell you what dollar he sent to me via email when we were discussing..

Stay with what you know audio amateur.....

[basite]

uuhhh yeah,,,,, the audio shop in Indianapolis that sells Krell along wit Mac and Polk... opened a hi fi shop and guess what....... no krell, huh?!?! Wonder why?? they do carry BAT and ARC etc...... You do the math

So besides the above, go listen to a Krell amp... not that impressive......


I happen to know some people with big Krells.

and as it happens I've heard their setup. I also listened to various other ridiciously expensive setups, with different electronics. While Krell wouldn't be my first choice, I can honestly tell you that they sure don't qualify as mid fi.

And while the GAS amps were good amps (and the new designs still are), they are entirely different sounding. And technically speaking, soundwise, they can't compare to a Krell, or a Mac, or a mark Levinson, or an Accuphase, or ARC.

ARC, by the way, wouldn't be my first choice neither. While I like music to sound 'musical', ARC sounds just way to slow for my ears.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[BOXMAN]

I happen to know some people with big Krells.

and as it happens I've heard their setup. I also listened to various other ridiciously expensive setups, with different electronics. While Krell wouldn't be my first choice, I can honestly tell you that they sure don't qualify as mid fi.

And while the GAS amps were good amps (and the new designs still are), they are entirely different sounding. And technically speaking, soundwise, they can't compare to a Krell, or a Mac, or a mark Levinson, or an Accuphase, or ARC.

ARC, by the way, wouldn't be my first choice neither. While I like music to sound 'musical', ARC sounds just way to slow for my ears.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.


I agree, A GAS amp might not sound as good as a Mark Levinson, or an ARC amp.... GAS is fraction of the cost also....

but I will run my Ampzilla against a Krell amp... The reference series(way overpriced) amps might sound a tad better....as they should.... they cost 10x's the GAS equipment. but most Krell amps, I would definitely run my GAS ampzilla against them...and the results would surprise a lot of people.

and lets not forget these Krell amps are brand new systems .... or maybe 5-10yrs old... but the GAS equipment is now 30 yrs old.....

and I am with you Bert, Keep them spinning........ there is nothin like vinyl!!!

[meltdown]

Freanor, your amp........oh yeah, that would do it for me.