Abortion

[JOEBIALEK]

On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.

Life begins at the point of conception. No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue. What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death. Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence? Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions. They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created. What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country? Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption? Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter! Does the father of the child have a say in this? And what about the constitution of the United States? Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed. We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country. For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Oh brother. Now it's Joe's turn huh? :rolleyes: As if we didn't have enough going on with Melvin, now we have to deal with abortion comentary.

Sad, very sad.

[emaidel]

Why is it that the most vocal anti-abortion folks almost always seem to be men? I firmly believe that if men could conceive and carry a child within them and give birth to that child, along with the associated pain and discomfort, that abortion would instantly become a non-issue.

How can a man possibly relate to the anguish a female who, as the result of rape or incest now carries a child within her she never voluntarily did anything to create? And who is that man to condemn that female for wanting to terminate that pregnancy?

[bobsticks]

How can a man possibly relate to the anguish a female who, as the result of rape or incest now carries a child within her she never voluntarily did anything to create? And who is that man to condemn that female for wanting to terminate that pregnancy?

That never happens. As JOE pointed out, women are now using abortion as routine birth control...no doubt, in JOEBIALEKworld having them two and three times-a-week.

[SlumpBuster]

I was actually considering having an abortion when I began reading Joe's post... Joe convinced me. I'm definately going to do it first thing in the morning!

[noddin0ff]

A sperm is alive, yet billions are sacrificed daily. Surely, Joe, that should count as negligent homicide?

[ForeverAutumn]

On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.

Why?


Life begins at the point of conception.

Perhaps. But sentient life does not. Ever step on an ant Joe?


What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death. Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence?

Absolutely! If my mother had wanted to abort me she had every right to do so...entirely her choice. And, for what it's worth, I would be none the wiser.


Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions.

That's just horse****. I don't know one woman who's had an abortion because it was more convenient than a condom. I do know women who have had them because the condom didn't do it's job!


They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created. What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country?

When did it become responsible to bring an unwanted child into the world? Do you have any idea how many kids are in foster care because there are too many unwanted kids and not enough families who want them?! How many of these kids that you so vehemently want to see born are you taking care of?


Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption?

Yes.


Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter!

So you would like to see a woman who has an abortion serve time in jail? Seriously? Let me add that pregnancy is not just nine months of discomfort, it can also create a lot of health risks. I know of two women who died while giving birth. One of them was only 24 years old and in excellent health; she had a stroke during labour.


Does the father of the child have a say in this? And what about the constitution of the United States? Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed. We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country. For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

While we're on the subject of human rights...how do you feel about same-sex marraige JOE. Do you think that gay couples should be allowed to adopt children? Just curious.

[audio amateur]

Im surprise to see so many pro-abortionists here

[GMichael]

Tough subject. On one hand I don't like the idea of killing off a potential baby. But on the other hand I can see all the reasons why it could be the lesser of two evils. I am glad that it's a choice I've never had to make. And I am not qualified to make that choice for anyone else.

[audio amateur]

You've always got the nice things to say Michael. Good job;)

[Groundbeef]

And to think the Pro-Bose crowd used to be the biggest source of controversy.

If somehow he could tie having an abortion to owning Bose, there might be something remotely interesting about the topic.

[audio amateur]

And to think the Pro-Bose crowd used to be the biggest source of controversy.

If somehow he could tie having an abortion to owning Bose, there might be something remotely interesting about the topic.

So you're indifferent to abortion?

[ForeverAutumn]

Im surprise to see so many pro-abortionists here

I wouldn't say that I'm pro-abortion. I would call myself pro-choice. I believe that a woman has the right to choose whether or not to go ahead with or to terminate a pregnancy.

While Joe can argue that an embryo has a right to life, I will argue that the mother also has a right to life and a right to freedom of choice (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as Joe pointed out).

Let me ask Joe this...why should the embryo's rights be allowed to supersede the rights of the sentient, living and breathing being of it's mother?

[basite]

what if your 15 year old daughter is pregnant, from her 19 year old boyfriend? she can't raise the kid, because she's still going to school, is unexperienced, doesn't have the 'mom instincts' and can't give breast feeding etc.. In fact, it's dangerous for her.

or what if your wife was raped (sorry for the extreme examples, but it's daily life.), and was pregnant from the dude who did it to her?

Would you say 'no' to abortion then?
sometimes it's better to have an embryo aborted.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[audio amateur]

I wouldn't say that I'm pro-abortion. I would call myself pro-choice. I believe that a woman has the right to choose whether or not to go ahead with or to terminate a pregnancy.

While Joe can argue that an embryo has a right to life, I will argue that the mother also has a right to life and a right to freedom of choice (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as Joe pointed out).

Let me ask Joe this...why should the embryo's rights be allowed to supersede the rights of the sentient, living and breathing being of it's mother?

It just seems that you were trying to slay Joe because he's against it

[JohnMichael]

First I must say I am pro choice. It would be nice if we lived in an ideal world and there was never a need for abortions but lets be realistic.

I am also amazed by the statement life begins at conception. Every egg that is fertilized does not attach to the uterine wall and develop full term. So is a human soul given to every fertilized egg regardless of it's future? After all do we not feel what seperates us from the animals is our immortal soul?

[ForeverAutumn]

It just seems that you were trying to slay Joe because he's against it

Not because he's against abortion but because he believes that he has the right to force me to do something against my will.

[Rich-n-Texas]

So you're indifferent to abortion?
What beefy is saying AA is that this JOEBIALEK character is nothing more than a spammer who tries to provoke the members here. You won't see another (well maybe one but the odds are against it) post from JB until after a few months when he gets back around to AR with another useless topic. I'd ban his IP if I were a mod.

[ForeverAutumn]

What beefy is saying AA is that this JOEBIALEK character is nothing more than a spammer who tries to provoke the members here. You won't see another (well maybe one but the odds are against it) post from JB until after a few months when he gets back around to AR with another useless topic. I'd ban his IP if I were a mod.


Hang on a sec. So this guy's a spammer? Well, I guess that answers my "why" question.

Edit: So he is. I just googled him. He posted the exact same thing here (http://forums.pueblochieftain.com/showthread.php?p=9644#post9644).

[noddin0ff]

sing with me...

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate

[audio amateur]

What beefy is saying AA is that this JOEBIALEK character is nothing more than a spammer who tries to provoke the members here. You won't see another (well maybe one but the odds are against it) post from JB until after a few months when he gets back around to AR with another useless topic. I'd ban his IP if I were a mod.

Wasn't aware of it thanks. Although he's got a few valid points

[Feanor]

On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.

Life begins at the point of conception. ... For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

Hi, Joe.

Life begins before conception with the egg and sperm in question, not to mention the countless others that don't combine to form an embryo. An embryo is alive and it is human, however it is not a human being.

Anyway, I suspect that that this is all just JOE's US election year ploy to get few more Americans to vote Republican :mad:

Well I say .. "A country that votes Repulican cannot be far from self destruction". Not if the current US administration has demonstrated anything.

[Groundbeef]

So you're indifferent to abortion?

Actually, no, I'm not inifferent to abortion.

However I feel on the subject is irrelevant to this discussion board. The problems with topics such as abortion, politics, religion (who's is better?), and other lightning rod topics are just that. They are polarizing to the point of clouding future topics on ANY other subject on this forum.

I don't care about the personal details of another forum member when I'm discussing A/V equipment. Oh sure, its nice to know that Wooch (his wife actually) had a baby. Or that FA loves Viva Pinata (Go Flutterscotch!), or that Kex loves his Xbox 360.

What I don't care about is how a person votes, if they are in (or out) of the closet, what church they attend, or when "life" begins. To me, these topics are best discussed elsewhere, or in a more private forum.

If you want to discuss abortion, go to a "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice" board. Go to one of those boards, and post in an "off topic" area, and ask about stereo equipment. Chances are, there won't be much interest. Same here. I don't care about the topic (abortion) in relation to the OVERALL thrust of the forum.

[GMichael]

When I was in the Philippines, my wife drug me to the church with the rest of her/our family. The priest decided to sit me down and have a talk. He told me that it would be a sin for me to use a condom. We're supposed to shoot in the dark and hope for the best? The man upstairs would sort out what should happen.

[audio amateur]

I get your point GB

[noddin0ff]

Way back in college, I wrote a satirical opinion for the campus paper that basically argued that although a fertilized egg and even an early embryo are alive, and most definitely human, they are not a form of human life we value enough to grant the same basic rights we grant adults. We don't afford children the same rights as adults, they don't vote, they can't drink, e.g. It's not life, per se, that we value. It's also not the human-ness of living cells that have human genetic content. It's not murder to amputate a leg for example. I argued that what really set humans apart from animals was our cognition and language. It's well known that embryo's and even infants brains are not developed and don't encompass the abilities that we claim define human-ness. I proposed that abortion should be legal until baby said it's first recognizable words.

Even for satire, in a satirical campus newspaper, I was surprised by the sh*tstorm that rained down on me. Heh, heh. Good times...

Anyway, I've had a fair amount of developmental biology in my education. That doesn't make me an expert or an authority on morals. But, IMO, a little ball of cells may be a potential human life, but it's not a person. A beating heart-like mass, isn't a person. Potential and chromosomes is just that. At some point in development it gets too close to casually call. It requires deep intellectual, moral, and personal introspection. Biology has designed us so that the decision to abort, particularly on the side of the mother, is a very difficult and painful decision, one that becomes more and more painful as the birth date approaches. The overwhelming majority of humans facing this decision know full well all its future implications, have weighed the factors, and felt the impact of their decisions more deeply than anyone else. Every choice is personal and unique. I, for one, trust the ones making the decision for themselves, to make the right decision.

[Feanor]

When I was in the Philippines, my wife drug me to the church with the rest of her/our family. The priest decided to sit me down and have a talk. He told me that it would be a sin for me to use a condom. We're supposed to shoot in the dark and hope for the best? The man upstairs would sort out what should happen.

... why I didn't marry a Catholic or Fundamentist. I mean, the being sat down and told what to think and do.

[emaidel]

[QUOTE=GMichael] . We're supposed to shoot in the dark and hope for the best? QUOTE]


Wow! No one's done a better job of discrediting the Catholic Church's hopelessly archaic stance on birth control. Well done!

For others who've criticized this thread, the topic is "Off Topic/Non Audio," so abortion, creationism and anything else is perfectly fitting. If you don't like this topic, then don't read it!

I too consider myself pro-choice, and not pro-abortion. Using abortion as a means of birth control is despicable, but terminating an unwanted pregnancy brought about by force is something that every woman who suffers such a fate should be able to do without any man telling her otherwise. I still maintain my first statement here on this thread: If men got pregnant, abortion would be a non-issue.

[ForeverAutumn]

I'll say one thing for Joe. He may be a spammer but at least he gave us something interesting to discuss on a Monday morning.

[Rich-n-Texas]

The next thread down is titled: "Post a Picture of Yourself." Why don't we go play in that thread? :biggrin5:

[audio amateur]

The next thread down is titled: "Post a Picture of Yourself." Why don't we go play in that thread? :biggrin5:
Totally agreed.

[bobsticks]

Tough subject. On one hand I don't like the idea of killing off a potential baby. But on the other hand I can see all the reasons why it could be the lesser of two evils. I am glad that it's a choice I've never had to make. And I am not qualified to make that choice for anyone else.

I spent fifteen minutes typing something only to realize that this was te best, most succinct, response to this question I have ever seen.

[audio amateur]

I spent fifteen minutes typing something only to realize that this was te best, most succinct, response to this question I have ever seen.
you're pretty right

[Pat D]

Why is it that the most vocal anti-abortion folks almost always seem to be men? I firmly believe that if men could conceive and carry a child within them and give birth to that child, along with the associated pain and discomfort, that abortion would instantly become a non-issue.

How can a man possibly relate to the anguish a female who, as the result of rape or incest now carries a child within her she never voluntarily did anything to create? And who is that man to condemn that female for wanting to terminate that pregnancy?

Most of the people in the pro-life movement I know are women, and I know quite a few. For example, Louise Summerhill, a Toronto housewife, started Birthright.

http://www.birthright.org/htmpages/about.htm

How many men favoring abortion kill women who don't want to have an abortion? You might be surprised . . .

[GMichael]

I spent fifteen minutes typing something only to realize that this was te best, most succinct, response to this question I have ever seen.

Thank you,

I had started and deleted about 5 earlier responses before ending up with that. It's hard to be "for" something like this. But it's just as hard to be against it.

[JOEBIALEK]

good points

[Rich-n-Texas]

JOEBIALEK
"Suspended"

Good job.

:thumbsup:

[Florian]

Guys Guys guys.....


WWJD ?

[Groundbeef]

Guys Guys guys.....


WWJD ?

What would Jesus Drive? Thats an interesting question.

I would guess that he would either drive a "Peterbuilt" as Peter was one of his closest friends.

Or, as a second choice it would probably be a "Christler Mini Van", so he could ferry all of the diciples to and fro.

[GMichael]

What would Jesus Drive? Thats an interesting question.

I would guess that he would either drive a "Peterbuilt" as Peter was one of his closest friends.

Or, as a second choice it would probably be a "Christler Mini Van", so he could ferry all of the diciples to and fro.

He would walk.

[Groundbeef]

He would walk.

Don't be stupid. He rode a donkey when available....oh yea, he would probably use something environmentally friendly, like a Prius.

[JohnMichael]

Jesus would drive a mint split window VW bus covered in peace signs and flowers.

[Groundbeef]

Jesus would drive a mint split window VW bus covered in peace signs and flowers.

Yeah, with a tiny kitchenette where he could bake fresh bread. And he'd always have a box wine in the mini-fridge for anyone that was thirsty.

[audio amateur]

LOL you guys are nuts:D

[ForeverAutumn]

Jesus would drive a mint split window VW bus covered in peace signs and flowers.


Yeah, with a tiny kitchenette where he could bake fresh bread. And he'd always have a box wine in the mini-fridge for anyone that was thirsty.

And I bet that with those carpentry skills he could build in some really kick-ass speaker stands to house a nice sound system.

[JohnMichael]

And I bet that with those carpentry skills he could build in some really kick-ass speaker stands to house a nice sound system.




No he brought Jimi, Janis, Bob Marley and Jeff Buckley with him so music is covered.

[GMichael]

No he brought Jimi, Janis, Bob Marley and Jeff Buckley with him so music is covered.

What, no Hendrix?
:21:

[JohnMichael]

What, no Hendrix?
:21:



I thought Hendrix's first name was Jimi?

[GMichael]

Don't be stupid.

Do I ever ask you not to be a burger?

[GMichael]

I thought Hendrix's first name was Jimi?

Sorry,
I screwed up,
again.

See above.

[Groundbeef]

What, no Hendrix?
:21:

According to music legend, Hendrix sold his soul to the Devil for his mad guitar skilz. So, as such he would be unavailable for Jesus to cart around in his VW conversion.

[noddin0ff]

What, no Elvis?

And JHC was all sermons on mountains and crossing water...HUMMER!

[Groundbeef]

What, no Elvis?

And JHC was all sermons on mountains and crossing water...HUMMER!

Elvis isn't dead you dolt. Haven't you heard? He's working a 7-11 in Memphis somewhere. Besides, there isn't enough room left in the micro bus. Between the band, all the bread, and the dusty sandels. No room for the fat musician.

[GMichael]

Elvis isn't dead you dolt. Haven't you heard? He's working a 7-11 in Memphis somewhere. Besides, there isn't enough room left in the micro bus. Between the band, all the bread, and the dusty sandels. No room for the fat musician.

I don't mind you calling me stupid, but please don't call Nod an dolt. Who do you think you are, Pixie?

[Groundbeef]

I don't mind you calling me stupid, but please don't call Nod an dolt. Who do you think you are, Pixie?

No. I wouldn't make sense if I thought I was Pix.

And your not stupid. Usually.

[bobsticks]

Guys Guys guys.....


WWJD ?


I don't know but the Devil drives a black Aston Martin Lagonda...

[bobsticks]

No he brought Jimi, Janis, Bob Marley and Jeff Buckley with him so music is covered.

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[ForeverAutumn]

Such a beautiful song. I prefer kd lang's version. Here she is at the 2005 Juno awards with such a heartfelt rendition that she received a standing ovation from the creme de la creme of the Canadian music industry.

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