Has the changes in popular music has an effect in how we buy audio equipment today?

[melvin walker]

Michael Jackson.... regardless of the negative press he has received in the last twenty years for his 'skin condition' and fondness of sleepovers with small children... I still regard him as the greatest pop singer of all time.... He is/was both a great vocalist and a master stage performer... very few artists today are good at both.... I suspect (haven't checked the statistics though) that he outsold Sinatra....

Sinatra only had a few number one selling recordings . Sinatra successfully performed in movies , radio , television , clubs and on the stage.
Sinatra also had his problems with the press. I would think there are popular artist of today that that can perform on both stage and recordings.

It would be difficult to compare the two as they are from different generations.
Sinatra's career in movies and recordings spanned several decades , from the 40's through the 90's. One of the longest careers in entertainment. 50 years is a long time in show business , taste change.
I respect your opinion.

[markw]

We got along fine before you came and we'll do fine after you're gone.



Your analysis of me is becoming a bore. You can do better than that !I don't see anyone else complaining. I'm just calling you on your verifiable BS. And, it's fun!


if one is not willing to pay the price for an item , than that item is not for them.Granted. I just question the need for such items and what posses one to purchase them and then brag about them. Deep rooted feelings of a lack of self-worth perhaps?.


That is why there are items to meet all interest....and you really expect us to believe that a human wrote this? gimme a break, meltronic 2000


Why name call ?Whose name calling? You started this long ago. I'm just categorizing you based on your posts.


no one forces anyone to buy anything. There are those who can afford and will except nothing but the best and are willing to pay for it. And there are those who have no interest in the the best and has no interest in paying for it.That depends on what ones definition of "the best" is, now doesn't it? An overpriced watch that doesn't keep time as accurately as one that costs about 1% of it's price is "the best" Actually, I consider that a vulgar display of wealth intended to imply an air of superiority. Many see it as a waste of money.


We should respect both.. and this from a man who, fifty years later, still bemoans the fact that "hi-fi" went downhill as soon as it became affordable to the masses?

Gimme a break, meltronic2000. If you don't like my running commentary, ignore them.

Look at me as a Greek chorus, here for the audience to enjoy...


You don't know me, you have no knowledge of what class I amOh, yes I do. We all do. It's you that seem to be confused.


Can you post one opinion without the personal attacts ?I tried that way back when but this is more fun and productive. I enjoy the chance to exercise my sardonic writing skills and it's rare that such a perfect target presents itself.

If you read back you'll notice that at one time I actually tried to engage you in a discussion about audio. But when asked direct questions you ran and hide behind bravado and bluster, and bullshiite, That's when I started this approach, remember?

So, about Avery Fisher Hall in Washington?

[GMichael]

Sinatra only had a few number one selling recordings . Sinatra successfully performed in movies , radio , television , clubs and on the stage.
Sinatra also had his problems with the press. I would think there are popular artist of today that that can perform on both stage and recordings.

It would be difficult to compare the two as they are from different generations.
Sinatra's career in movies and recordings spanned several decades , from the 40's through the 90's. One of the longest careers in entertainment. 50 years is a long time in show business , taste change.
I respect your opinion.

Movies? I thought we were talking about audio.

[melvin walker]

Even though she doesn't fit into my style of music, MARIAH CAREY has a lot of singing talent. This seems to be what you are interested in. All the "greats" you brought up were singers. I am more into the music itself. But that doesn't mean that I can't spot singing talent when I see (or hear) it. I bet she could sing circles around Bing or any of the other singers you think so highly of.

As far as speakers & equipment? How long of a list are you looking for? There are hundreds of great brands out there today. Probably thousands of crap brands too. Back in your day, there were a few greats and a few not so greats. These days there is more to choose from. This can get the average Joe in trouble if they don't research. But research is much easier to do these days. No more depending on word of mouth or magazines. The internet is a wonderful tool. With a little work, Joe can bring home a fantastic system for the same number of loafs of bread it would cost to put together a system back in your heydays. Many others here have given you examples. Have you looked into any of them?

The 1970 addition of the High Fi Stereo Review Directory listed over a 1000 audio manufacturers. There is a global market today. The problem with the Internet is that it provides quick answers, much as a calculator. Easy is not always better.
Incomes have not kept up with inflation. Joe has found himself falling further behind in
his buying power. The gap between the haves and have not's is growing in America.
The middle class has been losing ground.

There are great speakers today , as it was 38 years ago. The difference is affordability.
A quality men's suit today is 10 times more costly than it was 38 years ago. few Joe's have seen their incomes increase by ten times. That applies also to housing , transportation , and especially high end goods and services.

The issue is not so much whether there has been improvements in audio , and there has , but can the average Joe afford it ?

[melvin walker]

We got along fine before you came and we'll do fine after you're gone.


I don't see anyone else complaining. I'm just calling you on your verifiable BS. And, it's fun!

Granted. I just question the need for such items and what posses one to purchase them.

...and you really expect us to believe that a human wrote this? gimme a break, meltronic 2000

Whose name calling? You started this long ago. I'm just categorizing you based on your posts.

That depends on what ones definition of "the best" is, now doesn't it? An overpriced watch that doesn't keep time as accurately as one that costs about 1% of it's price is "the best" Actually, I consider that a vulgar display of wealth intended to imply an air of superiority. Many see it as a waste of money.

.. and this from a man who, fifty years later, still bemoans the fact that "hi-fi" went downhill as soon as it became affordable to the masses?

Gimme a break, meltronic2000. If you don't like my running commentary, ignore them.

Look at me as a Greek chorus, here for the audience to enjoy...

Oh, yes I do. We all do. It's you that seem to be confused.

I tried that way back when but this is more fun and productive. I enjoy the chance to exercise my sardonic writing skills and it's rare that such a perfect target presents itself.

If you read back you'll notice that at one time I actually tried to engage you in a discussion about audio. But when asked direct questions you ran and hide behind bravado and bluster, and bullshiite, That's when I started this approach, remember?

So, about Avery Fisher Hall in Washington?
That kind of language , many forums would dismiss you. Your disrespect for yourself and others is unbelievable. There appears to be no monitors on this site. That's sad.

[melvin walker]

Movies? I thought we were talking about audio.
The forum member , gave his opinion to whom he thought was the top popular singer , I responded to his post. He also posed a question concerning Sinatra.

There is a need for a moderator , the language on this site is terrible. Personal attacks are the norm it appears. There needs to be some controls.

[GMichael]

The 1970 addition of the High Fi Stereo Review Directory listed over a 1000 audio manufacturers. There is a global market today. The problem with the Internet is that it provides quick answers, much as a calculator. Easy is not always better.
Incomes have not kept up with inflation. Joe has found himself falling further behind in
his buying power. The gap between the haves and have not's is growing in America.
The middle class has been losing ground.

There are great speakers today , as it was 38 years ago. The difference is affordability.
A quality men's suit today is 10 times more costly than it was 38 years ago. few Joe's have seen their incomes increase by ten times. That applies also to housing , transportation , and especially high end goods and services.

The issue is not so much whether there has been improvements in audio , and there has , but can the average Joe afford it ?

In 1967 my dad bought a house for $16,000. (It's hard to buy a car for that now) That house in now worth more than the house I had built for $255,000 in 2006. Inflation hits everywhere. Not just audio.
It seems to me that I see a lot more high end cars & SUV's on the roadways now than ever. There are quite a few Joes out there making ends meet. Most of these Joes are more into Bose, but that's how it goes. (sorry, was on a roll) Plenty of them could afford hi-end if that's what they wanted.

The internet may be fast, but it's not always inaccurate. You have to know where to look and how. I use it every day to supply the company I'm at. So far, so good.

[Luvin Da Blues]

The problem with the Internet is that it provides quick answers, much as a calculator. Easy is not always better.


So, an answer to a mathematical equation is better if it is done by hand???

[GMichael]

The forum member , gave his opinion to whom he thought was the top popular singer , I responded to his post. He also posed a question concerning Sinatra.

There is a need for a moderator , the language on this site is terrible. Personal attacks are the norm it appears. There needs to be some controls.

You seem to be holding your own as far as that goes.

[markw]

Again, avoiding thr Avery Fisher Hall issue with sleight of hand tricks.

Face it, it ain't workin. mel.


That kind of language , many forums would dismiss you..Does the word "BS", or "bullshiite" offend you? To effen' bad. quit throwing it around and it won't be thrown in your face.

Now, what other language offended your delicate, aristocratic, sensiblities? ..or was it the stinging truth in the words I wrote?


Your disrespect for yourself and others is unbelievable.I have no problems with self respect or respecting othere here. It's just you I don't respect.


There appears to be no monitors on this site. That's sad.Oh, there are. In fact, you've interacted with some of them. They aren't exactly fans of yours, either.

So, about Avery Fisher Hall in Washington? Put up or deal with the consequences of me haunting your every post. I'm having fun. Aren't you?

[markw]

So, an answer to a mathematical equation is better if it is done by hand???He's been doing us by hand ever since he arrived here.

[SlumpBuster]

I'm going to suggest again that Mel is the most recent incarnation of Lexipanaskies. Mel showed up the day after Lexipanaskies was suspended. And, unless I'm mistaken, Lexipanaskies hasn't shown up again even though he has been unsuspended. I just can't get past that coincidence. I know JM poo-pooed that suggestion before because the checked the IP addy. But, IP addys can be changed.

The "character" of Mel is growing a bit two dimensional as these threads go one. He keeps going back to the same tired recitations of foppish men's clothing, watches, cars, and worn-out easy listening artists. It is a brilliant character sketch, but doesn't really seem to be evolving.

Besides, he really lost me when he used the phrase "valuable internet time" without any sense of irony. That is an oxymoron if I ever heard one.. along with "Men's Vogue".

[Ajani]

I'm going to suggest again that Mel is the most recent incarnation of Lexipanaskies. Mel showed up the day after Lexipanaskies was suspended. And, unless I'm mistaken, Lexipanaskies hasn't shown up again even though he has been unsuspended. I just can't get past that coincidence. I know JM poo-pooed that suggestion before because the checked the IP addy. But, IP addys can be changed.
..........


IP adds don't mean much... Take me for example (I'm not a troll, an ogre possibly but definitely not a troll)... now last time I was on this site around a year ago I had a different username, had a different computer and lived in another country... So I don't think comparing IP's would be useful in identifying me... (though there are other ways)...

Anyway, I'm still not sure whether Melvin is just a somewhat opinionated elder gentleman who's gotten off to a bad start on this site or an actual troll... but since I haven't had been attacked by him, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt...

[JohnMichael]

The forum member , gave his opinion to whom he thought was the top popular singer , I responded to his post. He also posed a question concerning Sinatra.

There is a need for a moderator , the language on this site is terrible. Personal attacks are the norm it appears. There needs to be some controls.



Mel this site has three moderators and you have had two of us responding to you. I am one and in fact have been personally attacked by you. I am not going to hold members more accountable than you hold yourself. Believe me I have had to fight back my desire to ban you.

[Groundbeef]

Mel this site has three moderators and you have had two of us responding to you. I am one and in fact have been personally attacked by you. I am not going to hold members more accountable than you hold yourself. Believe me I have had to fight back my desire to ban you.

JM, maybe Mel just needs a good spanking.

[JohnMichael]

JM, maybe Mel just needs a good spanking.




At his age a good spanking would mean a hip fracture.

[Groundbeef]

At his age a good spanking would mean a hip fracture.

Not likely. Between the depends, and the colostomy bag, you'd really have to lay it on to break the hip.

[GMichael]

I doubt that he is SVI's type.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Oh jeeez... not another colostomy bag pusher. :vomit:

[Groundbeef]

Oh jeeez... not another colostomy bag pusher. :vomit:

You must live in a REALLY big town. Here in my little burg we just have to contend with run of the mill drug pushers, and ugly prostitutes. What do "off market" colostomy bags go for anyway?

[E-Stat]

Mel this site has three moderators and you have had two of us responding to you. I am one and in fact have been personally attacked by you. I am not going to hold members more accountable than you hold yourself. Believe me I have had to fight back my desire to ban you.
I will add that I have deleted one post that was a direct attack on Melvin. I do not, however, have an issue with MarkW or anyone else (like myself) asking him to substantiate what has been presented to be a statement of fact. I'm still curious as to which speaker(s) Melvin has heard in the $50k range that are comparable to an AR-3a. I'll be perfectly honest. I suspect that he has not heard any current high end speaker or he would not have made such a statement. It is evident that he throws around dollar figures unsupported by facts.

rw

[noddin0ff]

Isn't Mel just a re-incarnation of that William J Dansworth III or what ever that guy's name was?

...can I be more specific?...no.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I will add that I have deleted one post that was a direct attack on Melvin.
Yeah, and do I even get just one reddie for all my troubles? Nooooooooooooooa! :incazzato:

[diggity]

i just read this WHOLE thread and by the end of it i have completely forgotten what it is about. i had to read the title to find out.
and may i say i am really disappointed in you all. 273 posts and not one mention of modern dance music.:sad:

do i have to educate all you old people in modern music haha :prrr:

cheers: dazza

[Feanor]

i just read this WHOLE thread and by the end of it i have completely forgotten what it is about. i had to read the title to find out.
and may i say i am really disappointed in you all. 273 posts and not one mention of modern dance music.:sad:

do i have to educate all you old people in modern music haha :prrr:

cheers: dazza

Contemporary classial, especially atonal, music was of course not mentioned. In fact, when I occassionally mention it, I can just see the eyes roll ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[bobsticks]

Most of the atonal music I listen to is modern dance music.

[melvin walker]

Mel this site has three moderators and you have had two of us responding to you. I am one and in fact have been personally attacked by you. I am not going to hold members more accountable than you hold yourself. Believe me I have had to fight back my desire to ban you.
Give me an example where I attacked you . I would also be intrested in why there is so much loose language on this site . As a moderator are there any rules involving etiquette ?
If so what are those rules ?

[Ajani]

Give me an example where I attacked you

This is going to be interesting.....

[GMichael]

Give me an example where I attacked you . I would also be intrested in why there is so much loose language on this site . As a moderator are there any rules involving etiquette ?
If so what are those rules ?

Can you give us an example of this loose language you speak of?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Give me an example where I attacked you . I would also be intrested in why there is so much loose language on this site . As a moderator are there any rules involving etiquette ?
If so what are those rules ?
Why do you continue this dribble? I all ready told you the software (you do understand the concept of software right?) will change "loose language" by replacing letters with ***. You wouldn't have to worry about etiquette if 1.) you went away, or 2) you went away. Don't you get it?

[markw]

Why do you continue this dribble? I all ready told you the software (you do understand the concept of software right?) will change "loose language" by replacing letters with ***. You wouldn't have to worry about etiquette if 1.) you went away, or 2) you went away. Don't you get it?Wot 'e said.

[markw]

Oh, didn't you say you were leaving a week or so ago? So much for the word of someone with your "class".


Music is learned , class plays a major role in what we listen to. The more affluent we are the more likely our parents played a role in the type of music we listen to.
Generally lower class people are exposed to music by their peers. On the other hand classical , jazz , broadway etc , parents generally play a role in exposing their children to those forms of music.
There are exceptions.Sorry. mel, but that "there are exceptions" doesn't even come close to alleviating the sting of that back-handed slap in the face at virtually everyone here by inferring that unless we share your tastes in music. clothes, cars and italian shoes, our parents were poor and had no class.

I'm pretty sure that's when the tsunami turned towards you, mel. Even those who somewhat had sympathy for you turned suddenly silent after this one.

Ya see, mel, we're a fairly democratic community. People of all economic registers post here and we don't rub each others faces in what "we" have and what "they" don't have and, even more importantly. we don't draw a connection between ones material goods and their economic status with a person's worth to society in general, or "class". like you obviously do. Likewise, we don't randomly use age as a bludgeon in order to beat down an opponent. Many younger people here have vastly more knowledge of events that took place in audio after your abilty to keep up waned.

We realize that it's not what a person owns that makes them a worthwhile friend, but what's going on inside. And you, mel, in spite of everything you say you own or have had "exposure" to, are the most shallow of any person to ever post here. If that's class, I don't want it.

Now, if you want to show some real "class", admit to yourself that you're no longer wanted here and leave with whatever dignity you have left. ..or get used to the vivisection.

Was that worded tightly enough for you?

[E-Stat]

Contemporary classial, especially atonal, music was of course not mentioned. In fact, when I occassionally mention it, I can just see the eyes roll ...
How about this for great theater? A debate between the two musical superiority bigots who have graced these pages: Melvin and Skeptic/Soundmind! In this corner, we have Perry Como and in this corner, we have Beethoven. Gentlemen, let's have a clean fight!

On the other hand, they would be bosom buddies waxing enthusiastically about the old days and pontificating ad nauseum over the AR-3 woofer. :)

rw

[Rich-n-Texas]

Oh, didn't you say you were leaving a week or so ago? So much for the word of someone with your "class".
Seems more like a friggin' eternity. :rolleyes:


Sorry. mel, but that "there are exceptions" doesn't even come close to alleviating the sting that back-handed slap at virtually everyone here by inferring that unless we share your tastes in music. clothes, cars and italian shoes, our parents were poor and had no class.
He just asked Groundbeef in another thread how old his mother is. Not likely Mel can still get it up so I'm not sure of his motivation there.


I'm pretty sure that's when the tsunami turned towards you, mel. Even those who somewhat had sympathy for you turned suddenly silent after this one.
Wasn't that a song written by Simon & Garfunkel after Mel's time? :idea:


Ya see, mel, we're a fairly democratic community. People of all economic registers post here and we don't rub each others faces in what "we" have and what "they" don't have and, even more importantly. we don't draw a connection between ones material goods and their economic status with a person's worth to society in general, or "class". like you obviously do.
Oh Gawd! He used the "D" word. He must be from Joisey!


We realize that it's not what a person owns that makes them a worthwhile friend, but what's going on inside. And you, mel, in spite of everything you say you own or have had "exposure" to, are the most shallow of any person to ever post here. If that's class, I don't want it.

Now, if you want to show some real "class", admit to yourself that you're no longer wanted here and leave with whatever dignity you have left.
Very well said Mark. I'm R-n-T and I approve of this post. :smilewinkgrin:

[JohnMichael]

Give me an example where I attacked you . I would also be intrested in why there is so much loose language on this site . As a moderator are there any rules involving etiquette ?
If so what are those rules ?



And you should learn how to use spell check ! Do you know the definition of socio-economic ? I am quite sure in reading your post you are definitely lower class.




Melvin here is one example. You want to be treated better than you treat others.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Let's see him weasel out of THAT one. :ihih:

[SlumpBuster]

why there is so much loose language on this site .

That's what she said.


Why do you continue this dribble?

That's what she said.


Wot 'e said.

That's what she said.


Was that worded tightly enough for you?

That's what she said.


buddies waxing enthusiastically

Thats what she said.


Italian shoes hurt my feet.... that's what she said.

[Rich-n-Texas]

That's what she said.

Huh?


That's what she said.

Who?


That's what she said.

What?


That's what she said.

Roger.


Thats what she said.

Ober.


Italian shoes hurt my feet.... that's what she said.
Huh? What? Who?

[SlumpBuster]

Vector, Victor, Clearance, Clarence, Roger, Roger.

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.

[noddin0ff]

ouch.

[markw]

...and don't call me shirley!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Time to rent Airplane !

[SlumpBuster]

Excuse me, stewardess... I speak Jive.

[diggity]

hello everyone :biggrin5: i think mr walker might be a little mis-understood. i think his main problem is his ummm his over zealous behavior. i can appreciate his admiration of all the pioneering engineers and companies. to look at a wooden box and say "lets make this box make sound! takes a special kind of genius.

but what i think his downfall is he doesn't apply that admiration to another type of genius. the sound engineer who has the guts to look at that traditional speaker and improve it. that to me is gutsy, to take something that the the normal person cant be improved but try anyway. and succeed as well.

maybe mr walker would be best confining himself to the section of the forum that deals with "vintage gear" as that is where his passion obviously lies.

just my humble two cents worth

cheers: dazza

[melvin walker]

Oh, didn't you say you were leaving a week or so ago? So much for the word of someone with your "class".

Sorry. mel, but that "there are exceptions" doesn't even come close to alleviating the sting of that back-handed slap in the face at virtually everyone here by inferring that unless we share your tastes in music. clothes, cars and italian shoes, our parents were poor and had no class.

I'm pretty sure that's when the tsunami turned towards you, mel. Even those who somewhat had sympathy for you turned suddenly silent after this one.

Ya see, mel, we're a fairly democratic community. People of all economic registers post here and we don't rub each others faces in what "we" have and what "they" don't have and, even more importantly. we don't draw a connection between ones material goods and their economic status with a person's worth to society in general, or "class". like you obviously do. Likewise, we don't randomly use age as a bludgeon in order to beat down an opponent. Many younger people here have vastly more knowledge of events that took place in audio after your abilty to keep up waned.

We realize that it's not what a person owns that makes them a worthwhile friend, but what's going on inside. And you, mel, in spite of everything you say you own or have had "exposure" to, are the most shallow of any person to ever post here. If that's class, I don't want it.

Now, if you want to show some real "class", admit to yourself that you're no longer wanted here and leave with whatever dignity you have left. ..or get used to the vivisection.

Was that worded tightly enough for you?
You to is either an out of work psychologist are a fool !

[emaidel]

You to is either an out of work psychologist are a fool !


WHAT???

[E-Stat]

WHAT???
Translation: "You, too are either an out of work psychologist or a fool!"

rw

[markw]

You to is either an out of work psychologist are a fool !Another classic melvinism.

...and you said that you taught school in another post, eh?

I see you still can't tell the difference between "or" and "are". Haven't you been told about this several times before? Next time we're decucting points from your grade and it WILL go on your permanant record. We may even have to send you home with a note for your grandchildren to initial and return.

...just another brick in the wall, mel. just another brick...

Well, working on what I THINK you are trying to say, obviously, for you to to arrive at the conclusion that I'm a psychologist, you've most likely been told by professionals in that field what I've been telling you. Betcha they charged you a lot more than I did.

and you call me a fool? At least I can write a coherent sentence. Several, actually, and even combine them to make paragraphs, but that's for another lesson. One step at a time.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Translation: "You, too are either an out of work psychologist or a fool!"

rw
I'm STILL having trouble with it.:(

[Ajani]

Translation: "You, too are either an out of work psychologist or a fool!"

rw

LOL.... (Hmmm, I just learned that a message needs to have at least 5 characters to be posted)