Do you really get what you pay for? [Archive]

Scott W

01-05-2008, 10:18 PM

Mr Peabody

01-05-2008, 10:43 PM

There are companies that use many different approaches to cables. My experience is that high quality cables do make a difference. If you are using Maggies I believe you will also notice an improvement. There will be other here that will tell you cable don't make any difference. The bottom line is you will eventually have to try it for yourself. A friend here, Hermanv, makes cables and can tell you more about what effects what. He found that lower frequencies need a heavier gauge while higher frequencies like lighter wire. Some companies like Transparent and MIT design circuits that go into the cables to counter various effects, mainly what they call the antenna effect. Obviously, good shielding helps. Some companies like Siltech use a blend of copper, silver and gold wire. I'm sure that some of the companies that jump on the bandwagon aren't exactly above board with their product but most are or there wouldn't be a thriving market for quality cables.

Those already mentioned are good cables and Kimber, Cardas, Audioquest are good. There are a host of other brands I'm not even familiar with. It's worth trying a few brands because you will find certain cables work better with certain equipment.

I feel I got my moneys worth in each set of cables I bought. The amount of improvement I gained to price ratio was satisfying to me

JohnMichael

01-06-2008, 11:41 AM

Here is another vote for cables making a difference. Currently I am using Audioquest Slate in a biwire configuration. The sound is smooth, extended and detailed. I have also used long term Nordost and AlphaCore. My preference is for solid core cables because to my ears there is a haze to stranded cables I do not hear with solid conductors. My IC's are AlphaCore Micro Purl and they were about $80.00 a pair. The AQ Slates I purchased from www.audioadvisor.com because they bought in bulk and terminate the cable themselves. Factory terminated they would have been about $350 for a 10 feet pair but with the no frills packaging with shipping they were $237.

I doubt I will ever go above that price range for speaker cables. IC's I may be spending a little more in the future. If I had a $60,000 system I might try some of the very high end cables but since this is not going to happen I try to find good cables that make sense in my system. Keep your mind and ears open and you will find cables that work well in your system.

blackraven

01-06-2008, 04:29 PM

Scott W

01-06-2008, 09:54 PM

Use 10 or 11 gauge cable for the maggies. It really makes a difference in the sound and eases the load on your amp because of less resistance. For good cables that wont color the music check out www.bluejeancable.com These are inexpensive and will do the job. To me a good cable is any cable that doesnt add or take away anything from the signal reaching the speaker. Thats the best you can ask for.
I just bought another used power amp yesterday so I won't be spending anymore for at least a little while.Wouldn't 2 wires as I described be equal to or larger than say 10ga?

GMichael

01-07-2008, 07:07 AM

I don't know how much of a difference high priced cables will make over a std set of 12 or 10 ga cables. But if I sent the money for Maggies and HQ amps, I'd at least try them out.

Feanor

01-07-2008, 07:52 AM

I havn't done much research into speaker cables but enough to know you can spend a hefty amount on them.I'm still pretty new to higher end gear and have lots to learn and little to spend.Recently I made up a pair using 14ga wire that is copper on both strands rather than typical speaker wire with one side being silver in color,I started with 100 feet and cut it into 4-25ft lengths and use 2 for each cable,1 wire for positive and 1 for negative,It seemed to make quite a (positive)difference in the sound of my maggie SMGs.Now for the questions-Is it wire size or insulation or a combination of both that makes a better cable(wire) or am I just a newbie without a clue? Thought I'd mention that the wire I used was actually intended for outside use electrical lighting etc.and was about $12 for the 100 ft.

My experience has been with entry and mid-range systems. I have found that interconnects and speaker cables occassionally make a very tiny difference, but not that justifies spending hundreds, much less thousands, of dollars -- that money is better spent improving the other components.

By the way, I also endorse Blue Jeans Cables, especially for interconnects -- truly professional, if not necessarily "audiophile", grade. I have spend 4x or more for several brands of interconnecst that sound no better.

For longer speaker runs heavier gage is in order. Without going to exotic brands and prices, you might well notice a difference at 25', especially in the bass, by going from 14ga to 12-10ga.

daviethek

01-07-2008, 09:52 AM

I had maggies and the best cables for them was old fashioned plastic encased 12 ga. multi-strand from Radio Shack. I used it when my monster cable turned green. I think it came in a 50 ft spool. It was cheap. I had Adcom amplification and mid level cd players and tuners etc. I thought it sounded great. Sometimes, I regret not keeping that system. That was before I ever gave any consideration at all to speaker wire.

So five years later, after a lot of experimenting, I have concluded that even in the most revealing systems, the wires you keep are the ones you don't notice, which probably brings me full circle back to the Radio-Shack wires. You may start and end your journey with simple speaker wires.

markw

01-07-2008, 02:28 PM

You're wise that you're starting out with a solidly constructed pair of decent generic cables. This way you can experiment (read: buy with return privileges) and see exactly what more money buys you in terms of sonic improvements. If you listen carefully and with a jaundiced eye, you may find that any changes are minimal. Many people find this out only after spending mucho money.

To paraphrase what daviethek said, sometimes you have to spend a lot of money only to later learn that you didn't have to spend a lot of money for similar results.

Mr Peabody

01-07-2008, 05:06 PM

Any time I bought cables of any significance for my system I was able to bring a set home for audition. I have no quoms on returning a product. No one would see my cables behind my entertainment center so I have nothing to brag about or show off. With that out of the way, with gear I've had like Arcam, Krell and Conrad Johnson I've been able to hear differences between cables and whether it was an improvement or not. I've done listening to a group of RCA connects with my Musical Fidelity headphone amp and had no problem hearing distinct differences. When I replaced my Audioquest speaker connects with Transparent, it wasn't a matter of diminishing returns, it was a significant improvement that took my presentation to a new level and the few hundred bucks was a value. Some systems and cables do not have good synergy so you may have to try a couple brands before you get it right, and you will know when it's right. Although Transparent was a good cable with Krell, it tended to have what I can only describe as a slight glare with my CJ and I found Siltech to work better. I started with the New Yorker RCA's, when I went to replace the speaker connects they had an older series on sale that I bought. That particular series gave my system a whole different sound, the mids and highs were light and airy but the bass was very thin. These had to go back. I then went with the NY'er speaker connect and it was right. I don't know if the 2 series had adverse effects on each other or what. When I first got my CJ separates I needed a 2 meter RCA so until I could get a Siltech to try I used an old pair of Monster I had around. When I did replace those Monster with the Siltech the difference was astronomical. I just don't understand what you all get out of telling people there are no benefit to better cables. If I had never upgraded those RCA's between my separates, I really would have never gotten my moneys worth out of the separates. The money spent on the Siltech RCA's was as important as anything else spent on my system.

This debate will continue for ever. All I can say is if some one isn't at least open minded to trying better cables they stand a chance of cheating themselves out of getting all they paid for out of their equipment. Most hi fi shops will let you take cables home to try. I know Transparent provides their dealers with kits for just that purpose. I bought my Siltech from the East coast with the option to return them. It's easy to try better cables risk free.

zepman1

01-08-2008, 09:39 AM

You can get the same cables as made by blue jeans cable if you buy the Belden wire by the foot. You can add your own terminations or just use the bare wire. It costs about half of what blue jeans costs (if I remember correctly). I can't remember the name of the retailer I bought from last time for the bulk Belden wire, but I think I have the name at home with some leftover wire from my last installation.

The Belden wire jacket is paintable as well, in case you want to try and hide it better if it is exposed.

GMichael

01-08-2008, 09:42 AM

Sounds like it's a definite, unequivocal, absolute, maybe.

musicoverall

01-08-2008, 12:06 PM

Sounds like it's a definite, unequivocal, absolute, maybe.

...a definite, unequivocal, absolute depends! And I'm not talking about the adult diaper! :D

Cables should be the final upgrade of one's system (leaving tweaks and things outside the signal path alone for now). Once the rest of the system, including room acoustics, is in place, one can certainly experiment with cables for the final smidge of improvement. Cables don't make profoundly big differences in my experience but the diffs they do make can be significant... if that makes any sense. Sometimes a 1% improvement is significant to the overall sound. I've spent some bucks in my lifetime for just such a step up.

But again, all else should be looked after first.

GMichael

01-08-2008, 01:26 PM

...a definite, unequivocal, absolute depends! And I'm not talking about the adult diaper! :D

Cables should be the final upgrade of one's system (leaving tweaks and things outside the signal path alone for now). Once the rest of the system, including room acoustics, is in place, one can certainly experiment with cables for the final smidge of improvement. Cables don't make profoundly big differences in my experience but the diffs they do make can be significant... if that makes any sense. Sometimes a 1% improvement is significant to the overall sound. I've spent some bucks in my lifetime for just such a step up.

But again, all else should be looked after first.

More depends (note the lower case d),

Going from a set of Monopriced 12 ga to megapriced 12ga may get you a small change. But going from Fisherpriced 22ga to Monopriced 12ga will make a huge difference.

Other than that, we agree.

blackraven

01-08-2008, 04:59 PM

You can buy raw belden cable from bluejean for dirt cheap as well.

O'Shag

01-09-2008, 02:26 PM

I wound have to agree with Bill B. to a certain extent. I have some expensive cables, and they do make a difference, but I don't think many are worth the excessive, sometimes ludicrous price one has to pay. I think any well designed and reasonably priced cables get the job done. Any difference will be subtle, and cables can certainly affect the tone of a system, which is more of a personal preference than anything else.

I've read several very interesting articles written by people of high reputation that consider expensive cables to be folly. Take for instance the man who designed many of the audio systems at Disney. His systems have consistently been and continue to be chosen by Disney and other notable companies because they consistently sound better than anything else, this given that the Sound folks at Disney are very very picky. He brings up a very good point, which is this. If there were the differences people claim, then the aerospace industry and military establishment, both of whom spend billions a year in research and development, would know about it. The man who designed these systems used the word 'morons' to describe folks like us that spend ridiculous amounts on cables. I must admit that in the past I've been guilty as charged. But I've made up my mind going forward that any significant outlay will not be towards expensive cables. I've got enough of them and any other cabling I need will be a sound design that is reasonably priced, such as the Tara Labs 'The Zero', or that other bargain, The Nordost Valhalla. I mean, why shouldn't a set of interconnects and cables cost as much as a Porche?

Mr Peabody

01-09-2008, 06:39 PM

blackraven

01-09-2008, 08:03 PM

Why is it then, when they compared cables of various qualities that people could not pick out the most expensive cables in blind tests. I have no doubt that cables can affect the quality of sound-adding sublte distortion which we all interpret in a different way whether its pleasing or not. The most you can ask of a cable is low resistance and capacitance and that it not change the signal.

JohnMichael

01-10-2008, 11:17 AM

Cables do make a difference. What is interesting to me is that it may take me awhile to decide if the difference is correct. Some cables that wowed at first became irritating two weeks later. My long term reference Alpha Core MI1's sounded bad with my new Mobile Fidelity OML 1's. I purchased the AQ Slates and they are great with the OML 1's. I have found component interaction plays a part in rather a cable is successful or not. Some of these differences would not be apparent in an A B test.

I wonder if sitting 7 feet from my speakers makes it easier to hear cable differences?Would I hear the same cable effects from 15 feet from the speaker? Would I be able to detect cable differences in a multi channel system as easily as I do in my two channel system? Since many of our systems are configured differently and in different acoustic spaces cable differences may be more or less obvious. If you do not hear the differences in cables buy inexpensive. If you do hear differences it is worth the time and effort to try cables to get the best system synergy.

Luvin Da Blues

01-10-2008, 11:28 AM

If you do not hear the differences in cables buy inexpensive. If you do hear differences it is worth the time and effort to try cables to get the best system synergy.

And that's what it all boils down to doesn't it. :cornut:

O'Shag

01-10-2008, 12:10 PM

You have to keep in mind that Disney's sound systems are for large venues and theaters, and therefore would use Pro gear. If you used exotic cable the system may cost as much as the building. I'm sure Disney wouldn't want a system to sound like crap, on the other hand, I'm also sure cost is a big factor.

They can call me whatever, with the results I've experienced I have no problem buying quality cables. Now I have seen cables that go up to 5 figures and I have to admit I have my doubts as to something like that being worth the cost. In every category of product though there has to be the extreme doesn't there.

Thats what I would have thought initially Mr. Peabody, but in fact the man builds the smaller personal systems they use also, and this is not just for Disney. I don't mean to suggest that his hearing is better or that he knows better sound than we do. I have always had and still have, by the grace of God, excellent hearing (must have been the cod liver oil as a kid). I can clearly hear differences (although subtle) in the tone and texture of a sound with different cables, so there is no doubt in my mind that different cables from several manufacturers sound different. I still think this is, to a large degree, a form of tone shaping or tone control if you will. The most compelling statement he made, and one that gives pause for thought, is that the US Aerospace and Military establishments would know of and use such technology, which they do not. Do Transparent, Nordost, Siltech, Tara Labs etc. etc. sell to the aerospace industry or US Government; agencies well known for spending ludicrous sums to get what they need? I don't think they do.

The other night I attended a performance at a restaurant, where I listened to the Afghani singer Ahmad Walli (beautiful music). His speakers were JBL horns and compression drivers. I observed long runs of standard, large-gauge well-made professional duty cable. I'm very familiar with the sound of JBLs. The system sounded excellent - clear as a bell, and this with such long cable runs. I can't help but think that the cables had little, if no impact on the sonic integrity of the system.

I am not an extremist in either camp. I just care about a sound that pleases me and delivers the music the way I like it. I do have trouble accepting the notion that many of the very expensive cables sound more accurate. My opinion is, that in the vast majority of cases these cable manufacturers have learned that marketing to us folks is very effective and a great way to make a lot of money for less than it costs to build a component. Also consider that one needs several sets for a system. Thats a lot of money.

Mr Peabody

01-10-2008, 07:41 PM

What exactly would the aerospace industry or the feds need with better sounding cables?

O'Shag

01-11-2008, 10:50 AM

What exactly would the aerospace industry or the feds need with better sounding cables?

Good question. The marketing for the big high-end cable manufacturers is based on the concept that their cable technology provides a zero-loss solution i.e. " I heard details I never heard before, or " The soundstage was incredibly wide and the instruments were accurately placed with pin-point precision" or I was able to hear the resin of the violin" etc. etc. Clearly this is a message that says that more information is being delivered more accurately when using their cables. This as opposed to talking about tone-shaping, or changing the sound from what is accurate to the source. Their claim is that the cables they make dig deeper and extract more information. Now, if this was the case, then the space shuttle, Tanks, F-15s, sound monitoring facilities etc. would be full of Tara Labs The Zero.

I've bought several expensive cables. Like you, I have Transparent Ultra, and I do like the sound, but I hesitate to believe that its more accurate. The whole our-cables-are-more-accurate claim just doesn't seem to make sense, given the extensive scientific studies on cable theory and electro-conductivity. As much as I like the Transparents, I do believe they attenuate the very highest frequencies a bit, which would explain why the system's noise floor seems lower with a quieter, 'blacker' background.

But I am all for people spending their money how they see fit, and I wouldn't consider anyone foolish for buying expensive cables. As long as they are within their budget and keep sight of the facts.:16:

Mr Peabody

01-11-2008, 11:18 AM

True, it would be impossible to know which cable is more accurate. And, to some extend they may be tone controls but improvement is improvement. I don't think I'd say, "digs deeper" but maybe allows more detail through. My thing is that some say cables make no difference which I just can't understand that at all, because in most instances there is some kind of difference. I can understand the crux of the debate being the word "improvement". To use the Transparent you mentioned, an extended high may be perceived as one guy as an improvement and another a degradation. It depends on the system and how much highs one likes.

In the case of the Transparent what stood out for me and sealed the deal was the tightening and punch of the bass response. This was a definite improvement to me as well as an overall sense of better sound quality. Nothing will stick out in my mind like replacing a pair of Monster RCA's I had between my pre and power amp with the Siltech, this was such an obvious improvement anyone could hear it. The upgrade took my components to a whole higher level in every aspect. It was so dramatic, it was like going up a series in electronics.

O'Shag

01-11-2008, 12:33 PM

I've never heard the Siltechs, but by all accounts they are very good. There's no question that cables do sound different, and some types of sound are more appealing to me than others. agree about the Transparent' bass response. I've heard the Nordost Valhalla, and they are very neutral and transparent, but I don;t think they have the same body in the bottom end, especially compared to the Transparent reference. On the other hand they definitely have more 'air' up on top, and are very fast sounding.

O'Shag

01-11-2008, 12:59 PM

Mr. P.

How would you characterize the sound of the Siltechs in comparision to the Transparents?

O'Shag

01-11-2008, 01:08 PM

Scott,

I know you've made your own cables and they probably sound very good. But if you want to give a speaker cable a spin that sounds really good for the money and won't cost you an arm and a leg to try out, look at the Nordost Flatlines. I still own a pair just to have around in case I need them. They do sound good, and on ebay or audiogon you can pick up a pair for about $75 -$100. This is going to sound a bit silly, but they really are not too far off their big brothers, the Valhalla... If you want to spend a bit more, you can pick up what I think is the best bang for the buck in speaker cables, the QED Genesis Silver Spirals. I got a used pair for $250.00. They come frighteningly close to my Transparent MusicWave Ultras - even in the bottom end. It all comes down to system synergy though. The QEDs might sound a tad bright on a very bright speaker - which the Maggies are not. I have the bi-wire version, which are so thick and stiff they're a right blommin pain in the keester to work with. But they sound marvellous.

I can't say for sure whether either of these will sound better than what you've got - possibly not. But at least you'll have some fancy lookin wire back there.

Mr Peabody

01-11-2008, 04:36 PM

The Transparent are good they worked well with my Krell and they do fine with my HT system, when comparing them to Siltech on my CJ though the Transparent seemed to have what I can only describe as a glare. So maybe the Siltech had more clarity or it could have been some effect with tubes and the networks Transparent uses. Siltech's bass response is as good, I find Siltech's mids and highs more natural, sound stage a bit larger.

The dramatic improvement I was speaking of with my separates might have been close with Transparent, I just didn't have a long enough RCA to compare. I feel the pre to power connection just benefited from a good cable. However, when comparing the 2 brands RCA's amongst others with a headphone amp the Siltech series was much better but the Siltech was a step up from the Transparent series, so it wasn't exactly a fair fight. Considering the price difference Transparent did pretty good.

Bassite is also evaluating some cables, including Siltech, he promises to post a thread when he is done. If we don't see it soon we'll have to remind him.

O'Shag

01-11-2008, 04:44 PM

Thanks Mr. P. I'll have to listen to the Siltechs, although I dread to do so.

IBSTORMIN

01-11-2008, 07:04 PM

I am a newbie and don't get me wrong, I have been reading for awhile just to learn. In reading this post I felt I had to say something. I just experienced something I felt I should share and get thoughts on. I have compared Monster and think it's high priced crap like Bose. The best RCA cables I had run across (can afford) are the Blue Jeans Cable. I just purchased the Integra Research RDV-1 DVD-A & RDC-1 pre/pro. I looked at buying DVD-A RCA 6 pack of colored cables for over $100 but the Integra has M-F DB-25 connections for its multi-channel analog output, that's a computer 25 pin connection cable!! I found one, 6' was the shortest I could buy, and it cost $6 at a computer repair store. The difference was AMAZING! All the things you read about the expensive RCA cables happened with this $6 cable. The detail difference was obvious but it leaves me with two questions. Is Integra Research the only one doing this? I wonder if I bought a gold plated, shorter DB-25 cable if it would sound even BETTER!

basite

01-12-2008, 02:39 AM

Thanks Mr. P. I'll have to listen to the Siltechs, although I dread to do so.

definately do try them. Exellent cables.

Bernd

01-12-2008, 04:53 AM

.....holds true in Cables also. A little research will go a long way.
Last year the top of the line cable, by the Chord Company called the Signature, was exposed as being exactley the same as a product you can buy of the roll from a supplier in Germanny.
Chord Signature IC £ 550 a meter

The off the reel same wire 3 Euros a meter.

Peace

:16:

Mr Peabody

01-12-2008, 06:10 AM

Buyer does have to beware, that is why we should try before we buy. If one can't honestly hear enough, or any, difference to justify the purchase they would be a fool to do so. I am obviously an advocate of trying better quality cables but I have instances where cables and power products have gone back. I can only speculate why some of us have had better results with cables than others. I have had some good results, good enough that I want others to have the same experience, that's the reason I hold firmly to my position. But my position is to keep and open mind, and to at least try a couple brands, I wouldn't want anyone to buy a product solely based on my say so. And, they absolutely should not if they aren't noticing enough of an improvement to justify the purchase.

Also, a thought, if a company buys the same wire you can buy yourself in bulk may not necessarily make it the same cable. I'm talking bare wire. Obviously if it had the same jacket etc. they were ripping people off. A friend of mine was experimenting with building cables, he had to buy his wire from some place, but he experimented with the difference in winding, insulating and a few other things. He sent a pair of silver wire RCA's to evaluate. You know how when you look through the opposite end of a telescope how things are still clear but smaller, the cables had an effect like that with my tube gear, not as drastic as the telescope effect but were absolutely fabulous with my Krell. On the Krell gear the home made cables were even better by a good margin than my Transparent XLR connectors. If I were wise I should have tried to buy them but at the time I wasn't sure I would keep the Krell. That experience showed beyond a doubt that cables are system dependent. You can see if some one would have tried those cables with tube gear and nothing else they would have a different perspective on whether they were any good.

jrhymeammo

01-12-2008, 09:49 AM

I use generic cable called KWIK12.

I have a few other pairs that I pull out, but I just keep going back to my cheap 12 gauge Kimber.

If I'm worried about oxidation of connection, then I just clip few inches off at both ends.

basite

01-12-2008, 01:15 PM

I use generic cable called KWIK12.

That is kimber cable...

however, when you get the chance, also try out AudioQuest cables (CV-8 or Type 8 or so), I think you'll like them :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

basite

01-12-2008, 01:21 PM

Bassite is also evaluating some cables, including Siltech, he promises to post a thread when he is done. If we don't see it soon we'll have to remind him.

I will, I think I made my final choice (the Siltechs...)

at the moment I tried 4 cables already: Kimber Cable Hero, Siltech MXT New york, Sonic Link Black Earth and a PS audio xStream Transcendent (and something after that, which I forgot...)

The crystal Cable falls a little out of my budget, but I might get 2 more cables tomorrow...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Mr Peabody

01-12-2008, 01:30 PM

Bassite, I thought you were leaning toward the Sonic Link. The Siltech are a sweet cable though, they do a good job and remain with a natural sound. I also like the threaded ends and connectors.

basite

01-12-2008, 01:40 PM

Bassite, I thought you were leaning toward the Sonic Link. The Siltech are a sweet cable though, they do a good job and remain with a natural sound. I also like the threaded ends and connectors.

I was...

the sonic link outperformed the other cables in quite some ways. but it turned out it sounded slightly thin, not extremely thin, but the Siltech was the only cable that gave such a natural soundstage, it put me right in front of the orchestra, with alot of realness...

I'll explain this better in the upcoming thead though...
now don't think the Sonic Link is a bad cable. if your system already has a really big soundstage, your equipment is good enough (the sonic link quickly reveals the faults of the components it's connected to, and while the 5001OSE is a good player, the 5001's weaknesses became clear quickly, too quickly...)...

So if you happen to have a DCS transport & DAC there, I wouldn't mind having the sonic link connecting them to the amp...

of all the cables I already tried, 2 things became clear: cables make ALOT of difference, and the Kimber cable Hero was the weakest of the 4...

still might try Audioquest & Nordost though...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

jrhymeammo

01-12-2008, 01:44 PM

That is kimber cable...

however, when you get the chance, also try out AudioQuest cables (CV-8 or Type 8 or so), I think you'll like them :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Basite, I'm sure I'll like them just fine. But, I'm not sure if they are worth $500 new. I would rather get a differnt cart or sell my phono pre and increase my PP budget by $500.

Hey Bert, you really got some nice gears...... but what's up with your PP? Com'on dude, you are an audiophile. Get with the program!!:cornut:

Mr Peabody

01-12-2008, 02:09 PM

jrhymeammo

01-12-2008, 02:36 PM

Cable will be the last thing I would want if I had your system.
Why are you wanting to "invest" in IC?

When I'm buying different cables, that's just me desparetely trying to change my sound. Cable shouldnt be used to cure problems. What is the problem with your system?

Let us know before you pull the trigger.

DcnBlu

01-12-2008, 08:03 PM

I...So five years later, after a lot of experimenting, I have concluded that even in the most revealing systems, the wires you keep are the ones you don't notice, which probably brings me full circle back to the Radio-Shack wires. You may start and end your journey with simple speaker wires.

I must agree with this statement. After years of testing, listening, and spending money on that next best cable fix, I have come to realize that costly cables do not a system make. Maybe that is why the debate goes on and on and on. Minus subjectivity, there is only so much the human ear can detect.

Good luck in your seach :)

Smokey

01-12-2008, 09:42 PM

When I'm buying different cables, that's just me desparetely trying to change my sound. Cable shouldn't be used to cure problems.

Bingo!! Give the man a cigar http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Science_and_Body/Hands_and_Feet/Clapping.gif

Cables should be chosen independent of system. So whether one have a cheap or expensive system is irrelevant in buying cables.

blackraven

01-12-2008, 10:44 PM

I must agree with this statement. After years of testing, listening, and spending money on that next best cable fix, I have come to realize that costly cables do not a system make. Maybe that is why the debate goes on and on and on. Minus subjectivity, there is only so much the human ear can detect.

Good luck in your seach :)

Very well said!

basite

01-13-2008, 05:43 AM

You can try them but AQ nor Nordist are close to Siltech. I have been curious about the AQ that takes a battery.

Are you looking for a better CD playback? The 5001 may be good for the price but it is not in the league with your Mac & Thiel.

I am about to find out what the battery thing is on the AQ's...
brought home a AQ jaguar IC, with 36V DBS

and yes, a new cd player, or a DAC is on my "things to do in the future" list :)

it just depends on what will happen with my room, it could be that we rebuild it, which would be a big upgrade...

JRA, I'm not trying to cure things, but the sonic link was not good with the marantz. as Mr. Peabody said, the 5001 OSE* isn't in the same league, it has it's weaknesses, and I'm not trying to cure them, but the sonic link just revealed them too hard. if I liked thin sound, got a $20k DCS transport & DAC, then the sonic links would be 'good', although I'd look at more expensive cables then...

*(ok, the OSE is a little bit better than the standard version, it comes really close to dad's Rotel RCD-06, but even that is not in the same league as the Mc and thiel)

You will read more in the upcoming thread, it should be here somewhere next week, let's say, around wednesday.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

basite

01-13-2008, 05:58 AM

Basite, I'm sure I'll like them just fine. But, I'm not sure if they are worth $500 new. I would rather get a differnt cart or sell my phono pre and increase my PP budget by $500.

Hey Bert, you really got some nice gears...... but what's up with your PP? Com'on dude, you are an audiophile. Get with the program!!:cornut:

or something else :)
I like kimber cable too for speaker cables, their bare speaker wire isn't that expensive :)

and yes yes, the phonopre...

let me give you an Idea of how my upgrade list looks like :D

now: new interconnects
summer vacation: either a new cdp, or a DAC or a projector & projection screen
next winter vacation: probably a new pc, if I buy the projector, otherwise: speaker cables or a new phonopre
summer vacation 2009: new tt, unless the luxman dies, in which case the new tt will be earlier, and most likely cheaper too...
even later: a dedicated transport (if I buy the DAC), or saving on for a seperate power amp (in case my room gets bigger, and that is a really big chance), or a powerconditioner (regenerator), ...?

so you see it's pretty busy on my scheme :p

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

jrhymeammo

01-13-2008, 08:56 AM

basite

01-13-2008, 09:14 AM

Dude, you'll almost be like 20 by the time you get your new analog setup. Dont waste your teenie years listening to digital encryption.:cornut:
No matter the results, looks like you are having alot of fun with your stuff. There is nothing wrong with that.

Let us know how your new IC sounds.

JRA

p.s. - dont get scammed by gold plated "Audiophile" batteries. But, do make sure you give batteries a good break-in period.

yeah I know, I just wish I had more money, could be that I get a new phonopre next winter too, but nothing too extremely fancy then, a clearaudio or so, or a graham slee (if they fall in that price category...), or something else, I'll see :)

I'll definately let you guys know how I like the new IC. and the 'DBS' thingies already are broken in, so no worries about that :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Mr Peabody

01-13-2008, 12:01 PM

Bassite when you look for your digital upgrade you should give a listen to Audio Note if you have access to it. To my understanding the 1.1x DAC has not come down in price but they have a single box CD player for $2.5k U.S. that is supposed to have the same DAC. I'm not sure how they do that unless they use a bit cheaper transport than their stand alone units. Their transports are pretty expensive. I think AN's digital reproduction is excellent. At the price they are at they are a value because they perform so well beyond.