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Tetsuro
01-05-2008, 04:11 AM
Which frequencies I have to soften to prevent the speaker to 'boom'?

The speakers distance from the back wall is 15 cm, and one of them is 13 cm to the right wall (cannot do anything on this). They are rear vented.

I've plugged-in the bass reflex port plugs, it helped but not that much.

Thanks

Seas-man
01-05-2008, 04:41 AM
Ideally you need to move them out from the walls more than they are. Outside of that... there are few options.

You could try using some kind of digital room correction or analog graphic equalizer in your system and see if that helps.
I think the problem frequencies are somewhere between 50HZ to 100HZ

You could also try to change the acoustic environment in your listening room by using bass traps to help absorb the trouble frequencies...if you had the room for them.

Tetsuro
01-05-2008, 04:56 AM
I'll try to soften those frequencies then, until 125 Hz.. will not go further.
I cannot really spend money so a real hardware equalizer is out of question.. I would cut them on the source.

Thanks

mlsstl
01-05-2008, 02:06 PM
You did not say what kind of speakers they were. That could affect your options. In general however, you can raise them off the floor if you can't move them away from side or rear walls.

Room boundary effect doesn't really care if it is back wall, a floor or a side wall (or even ceiling). All positions will increase bass response disproportionately, and they all reinforce each other. (A back wall and a side corner is worse than just a back wall, and a back wall, side corner and floor is the worst* of all.)

(*Keep in mind a few speakers are designed with that position in mind, the full size Klipschorns are a classic example. However, most speakers perform better if they away from walls and floors.)

Tetsuro
01-05-2008, 09:34 PM
They are Energy Speakers C-100: http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/product-page.php?id=294

I'm beginning to think that the problem is just the speakers since mine old Tannoys does not sound that bad at all (and the distance from the wall is even shorter). Maybe these Energy are badly engineered? Or have too little boxes?

P.S.: When regulating the bass response from the amplifier, when I lower it, which frequencies does it touch? And does it lower all frequencies equal or does it lower some frequencies more than the others?

audio amateur
01-06-2008, 08:56 AM
I thought you had Monitor Audio speakers?

Tetsuro
01-06-2008, 10:37 AM
Nope, cancelled the order and gone with these instead (in the rush with the bad advice of mine wife). Hope that with the Canadian amplifier they will sound good (heard that NAD like PSB, these Energys must be similar I think).

I auditioned them and in the store they sounded good (better than Polk and far better than Boston.. they were more flat sounding, better balanced and laid back, I don't know why italians stores sell all those american speakers and japanese amplifiers), and where not that well positioned. Mah.

One thing is for sure, Onkyo's digitals does not sound good nor with Energys nor with Tannoys (but the latter sounded better, although they were broken-in and bigger in dimensions).

hydroman
01-07-2008, 12:22 PM
Me? Quick/dirty fix to assess if it is the speakers/room interaction - i would reverse the polarity (red/black) on ONE speaker.

[putting head back down. The other children are learning]

Tetsuro
01-07-2008, 12:27 PM
I have done that with the new speakers but in all sincerity I didn't sense much of a change. Will re-do when the NAD will arrive.
Anyway room acoustics must be disastrous, but cannot do anything on it. :(

sgt bass08
01-08-2008, 08:55 AM
hi i get confussed with booming .what does booming mean were does it come from. i had a subwoofer in my bedroom and my bedroom is a square a perfect square .so i placed my subwoofer near the corner of the wall .it was 1 inch away from the side wall and 1inch away from the back wall.now in my subwoofer manual it says never place a subwoofer in a corner or keep it away by like 2-5 inches from walls and furniture etc.but anyway i carryed out and left my subwoofer in the corner.then i went to listen to music and the sound was awesome really made my walls shake everything was shaking the bass was strong .but then i whent back to the subwoofer manual .its says never place a subwoofer in a corner position it away from walls or place it in between the speakers so i placed my subwoofer away from the corner .put my music back on and the bass was clean didnt shake my walls but i didnt like it i perfer to have it in the corner it made or felt better as the bass seemed to be alive stronger lol.i also watched a tv programme called the gadget show and they said aswell never place a subwoofer in corner beacuse it will sound booming and unatural .they say place it in the middle of your room or behind the sofa never in a corner .
i jsut thing my subwoofer worked better in a corner .i dont know about speakers becsuse they wouldnt give of the low frequencies. so it shouldnt really mater about booming on speakers or will it .because how can you get boom from speakers .

basite
01-08-2008, 09:03 AM
hi i get confussed with booming .what does booming mean were does it come from. i had a subwoofer in my bedroom and my bedroom is a square a perfect square .so i placed my subwoofer near the corner of the wall .it was 1 inch away from the side wall and 1inch away from the back wall.now in my subwoofer manual it says never place a subwoofer in a corner or keep it away by like 2-5 inches from walls and furniture etc.but anyway i carryed out and left my subwoofer in the corner.then i went to listen to music and the sound was awesome really made my walls shake everything was shaking the bass was strong .but then i whent back to the subwoofer manual .its says never place a subwoofer in a corner position it away from walls or place it in between the speakers so i placed my subwoofer away from the corner .put my music back on and the bass was clean didnt shake my walls but i didnt like it i perfer to have it in the corner it made or felt better as the bass seemed to be alive stronger lol.i also watched a tv programme called the gadget show and they said aswell never place a subwoofer in corner beacuse it will sound booming and unatural .they say place it in the middle of your room or behind the sofa never in a corner .
i jsut thing my subwoofer worked better in a corner .i dont know about speakers becsuse they wouldnt give of the low frequencies. so it shouldnt really mater about booming on speakers or will it .because how can you get boom from speakers .


'booming' means that the bass is slobby, undefined, muddy. Instead of a deep real bass, you get (albeit louder) muddy 'booming' sound. Generally this occurs in the higher regions (60hz and up), which is also the frequency where things start to shake.

placing a subwoofer in a corner is possible, but I recommend you to equalize the output then (or if your subwoofer has an equalizer switch on the back, you could try to play with that.)
I also found setting the phase wrong is generating some boomy sound, since the subwoofer seems to be slower then.

Tetsuro
01-08-2008, 09:13 AM
It's not only muddy but it's even 'boxy', artificial. It's very unpleasant.

sgt bass08
01-08-2008, 09:19 AM
'booming' means that the bass is slobby, undefined, muddy. Instead of a deep real bass, you get (albeit louder) muddy 'booming' sound. Generally this occurs in the higher regions (60hz and up), which is also the frequency where things start to shake.

placing a subwoofer in a corner is possible, but I recommend you to equalize the output then (or if your subwoofer has an equalizer switch on the back, you could try to play with that.)
I also found setting the phase wrong is generating some boomy sound, since the subwoofer seems to be slower then.

thats true there is a switch phase on the back off my subwoofer .but if i placed a floorstanding speaker in a corner. how would you get booming sound with speakers. i thought boomy sound can only come of really low frequencys like subwoofers.so if i place a bookshelf speaker in a corner would i get booming sound ??

basite
01-08-2008, 09:21 AM
It's not only muddy but it's even 'boxy', artificial. It's very unpleasant.


could be a burn in period too, for a slight time.

have you tried getting them a little further away from the back wall, even if you don't want to do this permanently, you should try it, just to see if that solves stuff. if it does, you should need a better port plug...

try out a little, socks are being used too :)
Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Tetsuro
01-08-2008, 09:31 AM
Plug-ins seems of good quality. Hope the amplifier will arrive tomorrow and will try different positioning as you suggest.

Hope it's the burn-in period. Thanks.

GMichael
01-08-2008, 09:55 AM
I would get a Radio shack db meter and a test CD to find out what frequencies are giving you the trouble. Then you'll have a better idea of what needs to be done.

But be careful. Don't play this CD over 90 db. It can cause your ears &/or you speakers to be damaged.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103668&cp=&origkw=sound+level+meter&kw=sound+level+meter&parentPage=search

http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/softframes.html

sgt bass08
01-08-2008, 09:59 AM
Plug-ins seems of good quality. Hope the amplifier will arrive tomorrow and will try different positioning as you suggest.

Hope it's the burn-in period. Thanks.


yes best thing to do try different positiong .but you shouldnt really get to much boom of them speakers .its mainly going to be of low bass frequencies.you could try to fill up your speakers to keep the bass stable .i dont know it might work .:idea:

basite
01-08-2008, 10:00 AM
thats true there is a switch phase on the back off my subwoofer .but if i placed a floorstanding speaker in a corner. how would you get booming sound with speakers. i thought boomy sound can only come of really low frequencys like subwoofers.so if i place a bookshelf speaker in a corner would i get booming sound ??


you'd get more boomy sound than if you'd place them freely, with no walls really close to them.

the phase switch on the back of your sub is not the only thing, the equalizer switch is more important if you wanna place it in corners.

Tetsuro
01-08-2008, 10:06 AM
Would be really ridicolous if it's the positioning. I mean... bass reflex ports are now completely closed (by the plugs supplied, and they are more dense than the Tannoys one). These are 'bookshelf' speakers, must stand on a 'bookshelf'... here there are 15 cm of space from the wall, more than the Tannoys (10...) and them never had a ->hint<- of 'booming'.
It's like this 'booming' comes from the interiors, it's profoundly 'boxy' the sound. If it was just 'boom' I think I could have tolerated it.

Anyway these plugs have worsened the sound, they seem to limit the speakers in the midrange too.

Could have been the underpowered amplifier that was unable to control the mid-bass range with these inefficent speakers?

sgt bass08
01-08-2008, 10:16 AM
you'd get more boomy sound than if you'd place them freely, with no walls really close to them.

the phase switch on the back of your sub is not the only thing, the equalizer switch is more important if you wanna place it in corners.


basite i noticed when placing the subwoofer in the corner it vibrated all my walls. i whent outside to have a listen and you could really hear the bass.but like i said i was watching a programme and they said dont place subwoofers in corners becasue you will get a booming sound and it will sound unnatural.but i kind of like the feeling of vibrations when placed in corners the bass was really strong :ihih: .

Tetsuro
01-08-2008, 10:19 AM
basite i noticed when placing the subwoofer in the corner it vibrated all my walls. i whent outside to have a listen and you could really hear the bass.but like i said i was watching a programme and they said dont place subwoofers in corners becasue you will get a booming sound and it will sound unnatural.but i kind of like the feeling of vibrations when placed in corners the bass was really strong :ihih: .

I know what you mean... THOSE are not vibrations like what you mean. ;) I hear techno music and 'that' booming does not disgust me like this. I need that Nad NOW. :D

sgt bass08
01-08-2008, 10:25 AM
Would be really ridicolous if it's the positioning. I mean... bass reflex ports are now completely closed (by the plugs supplied, and they are more dense than the Tannoys one). These are 'bookshelf' speakers, must stand on a 'bookshelf'... here there are 15 cm of space from the wall, more than the Tannoys (10...) and them never had a ->hint<- of 'booming'.
It's like this 'booming' comes from the interiors, it's profoundly 'boxy' the sound. If it was just 'boom' I think I could have tolerated it.

Anyway these plugs have worsened the sound, they seem to limit the speakers in the midrange too.

Could have been the underpowered amplifier that was unable to control the mid-bass range with these inefficent speakers?

its proply because them other speakers have more bass.that why you are getting a boomy sound. they also say or if you go to a music studio they fill there rooms with polyserine to keep the music from boomy or virbrating.

sgt bass08
01-08-2008, 10:30 AM
I know what you mean... THOSE are not vibrations like what you mean. ;) I hear techno music and 'that' booming does not disgust me like this. I need that Nad NOW. :D


just curious what music do you listen to :6:

sgt bass08
01-08-2008, 10:54 AM
try this move your speakers .so they are facing you daigle. that should stop the sound waves from bouncing of the walls .

Tetsuro
01-08-2008, 10:59 AM
just curious what music do you listen to :6:

I listen to everything except rap or similar. :cornut:

Mostly New Wave, Rock, Pop (italian's and foreign), Classical, Electronic/Techno/Dance/Trance/a bit of house.

basite
01-08-2008, 11:59 AM
basite i noticed when placing the subwoofer in the corner it vibrated all my walls. i whent outside to have a listen and you could really hear the bass.but like i said i was watching a programme and they said dont place subwoofers in corners becasue you will get a booming sound and it will sound unnatural.but i kind of like the feeling of vibrations when placed in corners the bass was really strong :ihih: .


trust me, you will more like the bass going trough you than trough your walls.

bass isn't supposed to be 'bossy', it's supposed to be detailed and subtle, and when you turn it up, it should still be like that. 50 hz shakes things, 20 hz shakes you.

'booming' is considered being disortion. bad speaker design also causes booming, but with decent speakers, booming is mostly generated by standing waves (reflections). placing stuff in a corner will cause more reflections.

Sgt. Bass, are your subs ported or sealed? if ported, front or rear? (which subs are they, btw...)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Tetsuro
01-08-2008, 12:06 PM
trust me, you will more like the bass going trough you than trough your walls.

bass isn't supposed to be 'bossy', it's supposed to be detailed and subtle, and when you turn it up, it should still be like that. 50 hz shakes things, 20 hz shakes you.

'booming' is considered being disortion. bad speaker design also causes booming, but with decent speakers, booming is mostly generated by standing waves (reflections). placing stuff in a corner will cause more reflections.

Sgt. Bass, are your subs ported or sealed? if ported, front or rear? (which subs are they, btw...)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

That depends on the genre. Clean bass isn't important for techno music. :)
Generally dance DJs have their own equipment that is very different to the detailed audiophile stuff. Two completely different concepts.

basite
01-08-2008, 12:21 PM
That depends on the genre. Clean bass isn't important for techno music.


you'd be suprised...

and DJ equipment doesn't nessecarily 'boom', it's how you use it, and make the music. when I hear 'jump' music (which is what kids like these days, don't like it myself, I think it's crap.), I think those who made it should be ashamed. I mean, it sounds like some 12 year old kid was bored and then just made some crap on his pc, using seriously clipped 100hz tones and calling it 'bass'!

Do you like Trentemoller? if so, I can guarantee you that it sounds waaaaaay better without the booming...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

sgt bass08
01-08-2008, 12:51 PM
trust me, you will more like the bass going trough you than trough your walls.

bass isn't supposed to be 'bossy', it's supposed to be detailed and subtle, and when you turn it up, it should still be like that. 50 hz shakes things, 20 hz shakes you.

'booming' is considered being disortion. bad speaker design also causes booming, but with decent speakers, booming is mostly generated by standing waves (reflections). placing stuff in a corner will cause more reflections.

Sgt. Bass, are your subs ported or sealed? if ported, front or rear? (which subs are they, btw...)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

basite i have had many different subwooofers.from down firing to forward firing.the last subwoofer i had was a mordaunt short forward firing. it was ported on the rear .i noticed when i had my mordaunt short subwoofer it was alot better in the corner.then my yamaha subwoofer wich was down firing .but trust me. but a forward firing subwoofer in a corner and the bass lines hit you hard .:5: why you ask

sgt bass08
01-08-2008, 01:12 PM
That depends on the genre. Clean bass isn't important for techno music. :)
Generally dance DJs have their own equipment that is very different to the detailed audiophile stuff. Two completely different concepts.

it depends on whats in your room and the foundations in your house.i like techno and i wont my bass to be clean and powerful. when you try to move a speakers or subwoofer to different areas it amazing how the sound wave bounce off obstacle and give different feelings and echoes.i woud love to set up some powerful subwoofers in a complete empty room that would be nice to feel sound waves freely with no furniture. then a room with furniture in and feel the sound waves again.

Tetsuro
01-08-2008, 01:56 PM
Maybe I used the wrong words. What I meant is that you will not find the likes of Rotel or Wharfedale in a techno believer house, but Gemini instead.

Not http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/model.php?model_id=128
But http://www.geminidj.com/gx200.html

Not http://www.rotel.com/UK/products/ProductDetails.htm?Id=42
But http://cms.omnitronic.de/index.php?option=com_article_view&article=10451110&wgtree=A1004202

They sound very different.

sgt bass08
01-08-2008, 02:08 PM
Maybe I used the wrong words. What I meant is that you will not find the likes of Rotel or Wharfedale in a techno believer house, but Gemini instead.

Not http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/model.php?model_id=128
But http://www.geminidj.com/gx200.html

Not http://www.rotel.com/UK/products/ProductDetails.htm?Id=42
But http://cms.omnitronic.de/index.php?option=com_article_view&article=10451110&wgtree=A1004202

They sound very different.

they sound different i know .the gemin or any pa speakers sound horrible to quailty home speakers pa speaker are just made to go lound and bleed your ears.but booming is caused by bass that is not breathing .due to the wrong positioning .why are you comparing pa speakers to home speakers. to pervent booming try to move speakers away or towards walls to get the right sound .

Tetsuro
01-08-2008, 02:14 PM
I just said that these aren't mean to sound 'clean' or 'tight'. Back to the topic I'll try different positioning.