Toshiba's response to the Warner announcement.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Here is Toshiba's response to the news of Warner going Blu exclusive. My problem with them is that they are still lying about sales, even to the very end.


TOKYO, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner Bros.'
decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact that there
are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of
HD DVD. As central members of the DVD Forum, we have long maintained a close
partnership with Warner Bros. We worked closely together to help standardize
the first-generation DVD format as well as to define and shape HD DVD as its
next-generation successor.
We were particularly disappointed that this decision was made in spite of
the significant momentum HD DVD has gained in the US market as well as other
regions in 2007. HD DVD players and PCs have outsold Blu-ray in the US market
in 2007.
We will assess the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD
DVD partner companies and evaluate potential next steps. We remain firm in
our belief that HD DVD is the format best suited to the wants and needs of the
consumer.
Press Contact
Corporate Communications Office
Keisuke Ohmori
+81-3-3457-2105
www.toshiba.co.jp/contact/media.htm

SOURCE Toshiba

Keisuke Ohmori, Corporate Communications Office of Toshiba, +81-3-3457-2105

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS230058+04-Jan-2008+PRN20080104

[E-Stat]

Here is Toshiba's response to the news of Warner going Blu exclusive.
I find it amusing that the final arbiter (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=printArticleBasic&articleId=111087) of choice may come from an unusual, but not unprecedented source. :)

rw

[Woochifer]

Whole lot of careful wordsmithing in Toshiba's press release, since they obviously exclude the PS3 from their hardware count. Problem for HD-DVD now is that the format has now lost its largest studio partner, and the studio that provided the biggest selling and the most well regarded (from a technical standpoint) HD-DVD titles. HD-DVD might have sold more standalone players than Blu-ray last year, but Blu-ray has a larger installed user base and Blu-ray titles outsold HD-DVD every week in 2007.

Doesn't matter how many players Toshiba manages to unload onto the market if Blu-ray continues to hold significant advantages with the installed user base and its exclusive studios continue to release more of the higher grossing titles.

I know the rumors have been swirling around for months on what Warner will do, but this announcement seems to have caught Toshiba by surprise. Warner's the partner that HD-DVD could least afford to lose, and it's also a big blow symbolically because the two companies jointly developed the DVD format and were most responsible for getting HD-DVD to market in the first place.

Should be interesting to see what announcements come out of CES next week and at Macworld the following week. Rumor is that at Macworld, Apple will announce the first Macs with Blu-ray drives (chances of them supporting a dual-format drive are apparently dwindling). The dominoes seem to have begun falling.

[kexodusc]

Good news from my vantage point, the sooner BluRays dominate the market, the sooner hard-core competition and price cuts come...bring on the Blu...

[Mr Peabody]

This is the first I've heard of the announcement. I think everyone was getting tired of the war and some of the companies realize it needs to come to a decision soon or both will lose. I am glad I decided Blu but I can't help thinking about the guys that went HD-DVD. That cursed empathy takes all the fun out of things. And, there's a part of me that says it ain't over until it's over. I'm sure this is a massive blow to HD-DVD but I wouldn't let down my guard.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

This is the first I've heard of the announcement. I think everyone was getting tired of the war and some of the companies realize it needs to come to a decision soon or both will lose. I am glad I decided Blu but I can't help thinking about the guys that went HD-DVD. That cursed empathy takes all the fun out of things. And, there's a part of me that says it ain't over until it's over. I'm sure this is a massive blow to HD-DVD but I wouldn't let down my guard.

Mr P,
I would let down my guard. With this change of events, bluray now has a 70% share of the movie business. Since this is all about movies, how does Toshiba sustain the losses they have for a 30% share? Surely the stockholders would think this is throwing good money after bad wouldn't you think?

I see this in two ways. This is a rebuff of Microsoft who really wanted this war to last indefinately with the hopes that consumer would be so disenchanted they would move to downloads. I know for a fact the studios were not going for that. This is a way for the studios to tell Microsoft to stay out of Hollywood with their money. I also see this as Warners way of moving on to the next format quickly as DVD sales were down 5% this year, and Christmas sales of DVD's did not blow up anyone skirt. If everyone could transition into Bluray, then it would take the sting of falling DVD's sales.

For Toshiba to say they were surprised about this, is fairly disengenious. They came to Los Angeles three times from Japan to talk Warner out of this move. They were not sucessful, and I think given their relationship with Warner they were sure they could. What Toshiba does not get is that Warren Leibfarb is no longer the head of Warner, and not many of the top exec at Warner when the DVD was created are there now.

If people were paying closer attention, the signs of this move were all over the place. The departure of Stephen Nickerson departure(Stephen was a huge HD DVD supporter), and the recent comments from Warner studio head, and head of home entertainment were shots over the bow of HD DVD.

[pixelthis]

This is the first I've heard of the announcement. I think everyone was getting tired of the war and some of the companies realize it needs to come to a decision soon or both will lose. I am glad I decided Blu but I can't help thinking about the guys that went HD-DVD. That cursed empathy takes all the fun out of things. And, there's a part of me that says it ain't over until it's over. I'm sure this is a massive blow to HD-DVD but I wouldn't let down my guard.

I dont feel a whit of "empathy" for the idiots who bought a HDDVD player for anyreason.
In the mid eighties RCA came out with a video player that played movies with a friggin NEEDLE. They said it was CED or something but it was basically a record player
for movies, trying to hurt laser, basically.
A lot of people got burned by this, and good for em.
Nature needs to hurt the stupid and punish them for making mistakes like buying a record player for movies, so they will maybe learn something. Its a form of protection,
although some of the stupid never learn, and buy into stuff like a disc player with less capacity that is already obsolete out of the box.
Look at it this way, now you will have more movies to choose from, and future players will be cheaper, and you dont have to worry about your system becoming obsolete.
But people like GROUNDBEEF will be scouring the net just to find mainstream releases
in their format, eventually giving up and writing off what he paid for his HDDVD,
and move on to deciding which door will receive it as a doorstop
Its probably too small to put concrete in and use as a boatanchor:1:

Look at it this way, by buying into HDDVD they have prolonged this idiotic "format war",
and really kept things going longer than they should be going , which has hurt all of us consumers, costing us money and making the final adoption of a HD disc more problematic:17:

[GMichael]

I dont feel a whit of "empathy" for the idiots who bought a HDDVD player for anyreason.
In the mid eighties RCA came out with a video player that played movies with a friggin NEEDLE. They said it was CED or something but it was basically a record player
for movies, trying to hurt laser, basically.
A lot of people got burned by this, and good for em.
Nature needs to hurt the stupid and punish them for making mistakes like buying a record player for movies, so they will maybe learn something. Its a form of protection,
although some of the stupid never learn, and buy into stuff like a disc player with less capacity that is already obsolete out of the box.
Look at it this way, now you will have more movies to choose from, and future players will be cheaper, and you dont have to worry about your system becoming obsolete.
But people like GROUNDBEEF will be scouring the net just to find mainstream releases
in their format, eventually giving up and writing off what he paid for his HDDVD,
and move on to deciding which door will receive it as a doorstop
Its probably too small to put concrete in and use as a boatanchor:1:

Look at it this way, by buying into HDDVD they have prolonged this idiotic "format war",
and really kept things going longer than they should be going , which has hurt all of us consumers, costing us money and making the final adoption of a HD disc more problematic:17:

Why so much doom and gloom? The sky isn't really falling you know. That was just a rain drop that hit your head. Stay calm.
I don't mind writing off a $100 player that still plays the 6 HD-DVD movies I own (5 of them were free). It's a very nice upscaler for all my other DVD's. It even plays CD's. I don't know about you, but I have more than one room in my home. It will just be downgraded to a second or third system and will most likely keep getting used for years. I applaud BR and hope that it's around for a long time. I see all of this as a plus plus, win win for me.

[Feanor]

I dont feel a whit of "empathy" for the idiots who bought a HDDVD player for anyreason....:17:

The only format that stung me was Beta. I bought a Beta VCR on the basis that Beta was technically superior at the time Beta and VHS where still roughly equal,. (I bought cassette instead of 8-Track and never go into Laser Disc.)

It's hard to say for sure: I might have gone with Blu-Ray on the basis that it is the better technolgy if only I had an HD TV. As it is, I don't have an HDTV and likely won't for a year or two.

Big Question: Pardon my ignorance, but do Blu-Ray discs have a standard DVD layer? If so, I might tend to spring a few buck extract to get the hi-rez versions.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The only format that stung me was Beta. I bought a Beta VCR on the basis that Beta was technically superior at the time Beta and VHS where still roughly equal,. (I bought cassette instead of 8-Track and never go into Laser Disc.)

It's hard to say for sure: I might have gone with Blu-Ray on the basis that it is the better technolgy if only I had an HD TV. As it is, I don't have an HDTV and likely won't for a year or two.

Big Question: Pardon my ignorance, but do Blu-Ray discs have a standard DVD layer? If so, I might tend to spring a few buck extract to get the hi-rez versions.

Feanor,
A bluray disc does not have a standard DVD layer. The object of both HD DVD and Bluray was to move the consumer beyond DVD. What HD DVD was trying to do with the combo disc was to accomodate both DVD and HD DVD user, but they weren't ultimately successful because the of the numerous technical issues that cropped up during start up or playback.

The next battle for Bluray is to move the consumer from DVD to Bluray. The good thing about this move is we can now have a single disc that can handle high definition movies and music. No need for a audio format battle with two non compatible formats like DVD-A and SACD. One disc to handle both audio and video (without tremendous restraints) is something that we have never had.

[kexodusc]

The next battle for Bluray is to move the consumer from DVD to Bluray. The good thing about this move is we can now have a single disc that can handle high definition movies and music. No need for a audio format battle with two non compatible formats like DVD-A and SACD. One disc to handle both audio and video (without tremendous restraints) is something that we have never had.
Interesting points Sir T.

Then the biggest challenge is going to be convincing:
1) the movie studios to ween themselves off DVD and on to BluRay
2) convincing the music labels and artists that BluRay, hi-rez, and multichannel audio have something to offer.

The first one I think will be fairly easy, the studios seem to have a bit more vision.
The second one could be a challenge. We've had what, 3 or 4 (maybe more) video formats within the life cycle of the CD? Those music labels are their own worst enemy to often. I hope it happens.

[Feanor]

Feanor,
A bluray disc does not have a standard DVD layer. The object of both HD DVD and Bluray was to move the consumer beyond DVD. What HD DVD was trying to do with the combo disc was to accomodate both DVD and HD DVD user, but they weren't ultimately successful because the of the numerous technical issues that cropped up during start up or playback.

The next battle for Bluray is to move the consumer from DVD to Bluray. The good thing about this move is we can now have a single disc that can handle high definition movies and music. No need for a audio format battle with two non compatible formats like DVD-A and SACD. One disc to handle both audio and video (without tremendous restraints) is something that we have never had.

I'm not surprised at all to hear that there's no DVD layer. The situation is different from SACD, I guess, although of course early Sony discs didn't have a CD layer. My theory is that Sony dropped the idea that SACD would replace CD, if not at inception, then very soon afterwards.

Follow-up question: I suppose that Blu-Ray players don't provided "mix-down" to DVD quality?

For me the info means that (a) I won't be buying Blu-Ray discs for awhile, and (b) I can go ahead and get the Oppo DV-980H (http://www.oppodigital.com/dv980h/default.asp) without worrying that it will be obsolete before I get an HDTV in a couple of years.

[Mr Peabody]

Feanor, Blu-ray contains the core DD or DTS info so you can hook up a BR player via optical or coax digital to be compatible with older HT gear. However, the best way with older gear for sound quality would be to use multi-channel analog inputs like SACD.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Interesting points Sir T.

Then the biggest challenge is going to be convincing:
1) the movie studios to ween themselves off DVD and on to BluRay
2) convincing the music labels and artists that BluRay, hi-rez, and multichannel audio have something to offer.

The first one I think will be fairly easy, the studios seem to have a bit more vision.
The second one could be a challenge. We've had what, 3 or 4 (maybe more) video formats within the life cycle of the CD? Those music labels are their own worst enemy to often. I hope it happens.

Well Kex, it is going to be a challenge. I know my company strategy will be to release some high profile titles that have been previously released on DVD on bluray only. I believe any high profile DVD release now will be pretty dummied down so the studio can push the interactivity and extra features of Bluray. IMO, it is going to be a slow, steady process, but it will happen eventually just like it did with VHS and DVD.

I am not going to be quick to kill off SACD as Sony or Philips could support it in a future bluray player. However considering the fact that the Bluray spec contains 24bit 192khz PCM on 8 channels, I cannot see why they would. The entire music world is PCM, so it is more of a natural progression to just record in PCM and use the spec as is rather than trying to expand it to fit a pretty much failed audio format. Since almost every new piece of hardware supports HDMI's even most basic spec, it should not require anymore protection and unique hookups like both DVD-A and SACD(both required 5.1 channel analog hookups to function).

[Feanor]

Feanor, Blu-ray contains the core DD or DTS info so you can hook up a BR player via optical or coax digital to be compatible with older HT gear. However, the best way with older gear for sound quality would be to use multi-channel analog inputs like SACD.

Thanks, Mr.P, that's great to know. Neverthless I'm more likely to just by an Oppo in the nearer term, especailly given my SACD inventory.

[bobsticks]

Why so much doom and gloom? The sky isn't really falling you know. That was just a rain drop that hit your head. Stay calm.
I don't mind writing off a $100 player that still plays the 6 HD-DVD movies I own (5 of them were free). It's a very nice upscaler for all my other DVD's. It even plays CD's. I don't know about you, but I have more than one room in my home. It will just be downgraded to a second or third system and will most likely keep getting used for years. I applaud BR and hope that it's around for a long time. I see all of this as a plus plus, win win for me.


Amen and exactly.

[pixelthis]

I'm not surprised at all to hear that there's no DVD layer. The situation is different from SACD, I guess, although of course early Sony discs didn't have a CD layer. My theory is that Sony dropped the idea that SACD would replace CD, if not at inception, then very soon afterwards.

Follow-up question: I suppose that Blu-Ray players don't provided "mix-down" to DVD quality?

For me the info means that (a) I won't be buying Blu-Ray discs for awhile, and (b) I can go ahead and get the Oppo DV-980H (http://www.oppodigital.com/dv980h/default.asp) without worrying that it will be obsolete before I get an HDTV in a couple of years.

They never had the idea that it would replace CD.
So called "audiophiles" kept complaining about red book CD that it was thought that a high res audio format would work, and it pretty much did as advertised.
Beleive it or not neither camp in the audio disc war were too eager to get into a new audio
disc, but they were doing the reasearch and people kept asking about it...
The reason SACD has surrived as long as it has is that Sony did it right, no gimmicks,
and advertising based on the high end market, the true music lover.
If SACD does die it will be what the audio "golden ears " types deserve, really.
Blu-ray is a good chance to use what was learned from the high rez disc effort.
sell to the videophile, and dont even try to ursurp DVD, aint gonna happen, at least for awhile. The advantages of a high def disc wont be apparrent to a lot of people.
And a high rez music disc based on blu PCM is a vaporware fantasy, aint gonna happen,
there is absolutely no market for it, as long as high end audio types worship the tube
and the stylus, anyway. Its amazing just how many high end types are totally clueless about technology. Most of them cling to the past, and have no interest in anything digital or even solid state.
And the mass market is in love with cheap downloads...
So where is the market for true high end sound?
Me, feanor, and two or three other guys. Thats it:1:

[pixelthis]

And I may be mistaken but seems that I heard that a Blu ray will play a disc in 480i,
enabling veiwing on a regular screen, but why would you want to?
Break down and join the rest of the world.
A 37in lcd is 700 bucks, what are you waiting for, the chance to get one outta a box of cornflakes?:1: