New low-end HT advice for a friend.

[Swish]

No, it's not for me. My system is just fine, but a good friend wants to add a 5.1 system to his room that includes a rear projection HD tv that is about 4 years old, and would use the old component cables for HD hookup.

He is hoping to spend no more than $1000, but I think I got him to open up to a few hundred more. He sent me info on two systems that both included an 8" sub, and I told him right off the bat that he will need at least a 10' but should go with a 12, and he will do as I suggest.

The one had a Denon 925W processor for about $500 with Mirage speakers, but I've heard a lot of negatives on Denon. The other is a Denon DHT687BA with Boston Acoustic Micro speaker system.

I seem to recall that many of you like Yamaha and Onkyo, so I would appreciate any advice on specific models if you own them or know a lot about them.

Thanks again,
Swish

[Hyfi]

I picked up a Harmon Kardon avr635 from VANS last year for less that $600 and a Mirage 12" sub for like $349. It has a little trouble driving my Dynaudios which are 4ohm and want lots more power. Overall but for the speaker connections, the HK is good for the money.

I would shy away from systems that include the receiver and speakers since they will surely skimp on the speaks.

Have your friend buy the best speakers he can afford and then choose the head unit. That way when he wants more, his speakers will not need to be upgraded.

I also like Onkyo gear. It was the first products I bought with my first income tax check in 1977............ooo am I getting old.

[Swish]

I picked up a Harmon Kardon avr635 from VANS last year for less that $600 and a Mirage 12" sub for like $349. It has a little trouble driving my Dynaudios which are 4ohm and want lots more power. Overall but for the speaker connections, the HK is good for the money.

I would shy away from systems that include the receiver and speakers since they will surely skimp on the speaks.

Have your friend buy the best speakers he can afford and then choose the head unit. That way when he wants more, his speakers will not need to be upgraded.

I also like Onkyo gear. It was the first products I bought with my first income tax check in 1977............ooo am I getting old.

...and I told him about the shopping trip with my younger brother. He saw a low-end system advertised at Tweeter so I went with him at his request. They played a 5.1 DTS disc for the demo and my brother's eyes popped out of his skull, but mine didn't. I asked the salesman to change to the 10" sub from the 8", but they were sold out, so he switched to the 12". My brother couldn't believe how much better it sounded. Then I asked him to go up a step on the fronts and it improved mightily. He ended up spending about $400 or so more than he intended, but he got the message.

That was about 4 years ago, and things have changed so much so I'm throwing it out to the masses for help.

Thanks for your info!
Swish

[Swish]

Well, I took the time to check the HT forum and found some good info in past threads, so it appears he'll be buying a Marantz A/V receiver from accessories4less.com, but he hasn't decided which model. Most have been drastically reduced and the 7001 is going for a mere $599, down from the MSRP of $1399, so that's probably the one he'll buy.

I think I have him convinced to spend around $1500 in total, perhaps a little more, so he can get a decent 5.1 speaker system, but I haven't been able to find much help on a decent system. The Mordaunt seems reasonable, but I'm afraid their cheaper models won't cut the mustard, so I'm doing some shopping to see what's out there. I think he can get something half-way decent for $1000.

Swish

[audiobill]

Here's my advice, Swish, for your friend:

The receiver can be had very cheap and he should not write off Pioneer for this. The Pioneer receivers $250-$300 pack a ton of value for the dollar and can be replaced later on without any real regrets.

As for the speakers, PSB has a line of ht speakers that should come in at around $1000 to $1200 with a 10" or 12" sub. I know, because I own a set and they constantly astound me and my family and friends with their "realism" in reproducing soundtracks. By the way the center channel speakers are the most important, since most of the soundtrack emanates from there.

As for the component cables, he should make them himself and save $$$. All he needs is three equal lengths of cable wire (whatever length is appropriate) and gold-plated component ends (6 tips in total red, blue, green). Simple weld them on and viola high-end cables.

Let us know what he/she decides,

Bill

[Swish]

Here's my advice, Swish, for your friend:

The receiver can be had very cheap and he should not write off Pioneer for this. The Pioneer receivers $250-$300 pack a ton of value for the dollar and can be replaced later on without any real regrets.

As for the speakers, PSB has a line of ht speakers that should come in at around $1000 to $1200 with a 10" or 12" sub. I know, because I own a set and they constantly astound me and my family and friends with their "realism" in reproducing soundtracks. By the way the center channel speakers are the most important, since most of the soundtrack emanates from there.

As for the component cables, he should make them himself and save $$$. All he needs is three equal lengths of cable wire (whatever length is appropriate) and gold-plated component ends (6 tips in total red, blue, green). Simple weld them on and viola high-end cables.

Let us know what he/she decides,

Bill

...channel speaker, I'm certainly aware of the importance, but I think the sub is equally important, hence my suggestion to go to at least a 10" and preferably a 12", and something of decent quality obviously.

I don't think this guy is going to make his own component cables though, just knowing his nature and all. You can buy them for a reasonable price at Target believe it or not. And I did recommend at least a 12 gauge speaker wire for the longer runs, and you can buy it in bulk at Lowe's or Home Depot.

As for the Pioneer A/V receiver, I think he's sold on the pricier Marantz, so I don't know that I want to throw another variable at him. He has money, he just thought he could get a nice receiver and speaker for $1000, and it appears the speakers are going to require at least that much alone or he'll be disappointed.

Thanks for the advice!

G Swish Baby

[bobsticks]

After a few false starts with the dreaded HTIB and sharing a similar mentality to your friend, I moved up to an Onkyo receiver and KEF speakers in my first semi-real system and I still use the receiver and the mains in my computer system. KEF does not receive nearly the recognition on these shores as in Europe and, consequently, you can put together a relatively decent system for not a lot of dosh...

Peace

[Swish]

Here's my advice, Swish, for your friend:

The receiver can be had very cheap and he should not write off Pioneer for this. The Pioneer receivers $250-$300 pack a ton of value for the dollar and can be replaced later on without any real regrets.

As for the speakers, PSB has a line of ht speakers that should come in at around $1000 to $1200 with a 10" or 12" sub. I know, because I own a set and they constantly astound me and my family and friends with their "realism" in reproducing soundtracks. By the way the center channel speakers are the most important, since most of the soundtrack emanates from there.

As for the component cables, he should make them himself and save $$$. All he needs is three equal lengths of cable wire (whatever length is appropriate) and gold-plated component ends (6 tips in total red, blue, green). Simple weld them on and viola high-end cables.

Let us know what he/she decides,

Bill

I have my friend seriously considering them, but he is looking at the T1 fronts, the B1 for the surrounds, the C1 for the center, and the 5i sub. Is that what you have, all in the Alpha line? He is thinking he can use the B1s for the fronts as well, but I cautioned him about using bookshelf speakers other than for the surrounds. Perhaps you are doing the same thing and are satisfied?

Thanks,
Swish

[blackraven]

Onkyo 605 receiver. B&W 686's for mains and surrounds and Mirage S8 sub will be a nice system for just under $1500. He might want to consider just getting a receiver, 2 front channel speakers, a center channel and a sub if he's on a tight budget. A good center channel is much more inportant than rears. He could get the rear's later on when he has more money and he will be enjoying 90% of multichannel sound. Also, why do you think he needs a sub larger than 8". I'll take a good 8" sub over a larger sub of lesser quality any day.

For cables, I recommend www.bluejeancables.com It will save him alot of money and their cables are of high quality.

[Swish]

Onkyo 605 receiver. B&W 686's for mains and surrounds and Mirage S8 sub will be a nice system for just under $1500. He might want to consider just getting a receiver, 2 front channel speakers, a center channel and a sub if he's on a tight budget. A good center channel is much more inportant than rears. He could get the rear's later on when he has more money and he will be enjoying 90% of multichannel sound. Also, why do you think he needs a sub larger than 8". I'll take a good 8" sub over a larger sub of lesser quality any day.

For cables, I recommend www.bluejeancables.com It will save him alot of money and their cables are of high quality.

...in one of the replies above. He contacted me and said he wanted to add a surround system to his Hi-Def TV and wanted to spend around $1000. I convinced him to spend a little more and he's seriously considering the PSB Alpha line that was suggested by Audio Bill. I really like B & Ws and would have no problem recommending them, but it may be too late.

As for the sub, I've found that an 8" doesn't provide the oomph of a 10 or 12. For the same reason that tweeters and mid-range speakers are smaller than woofers. Larger speakers are needed to reproduce the low frequency sound waves. Have you ever seen a bass guitar cabinet with an 8" speaker? They're usually 14 or 18 as I recall, and for good reason. In the listening tests I've done in stereo shops, switching from an 8 to a 10 or 12 always adds more depth, and of course it would be of decent quality.

Thanks for your input.
Swish

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Get the $1000 SVS speaker/sub combo and steal an AVR.

[Swish]

he ended up with the PSBs that Audio Bill recommended, and found them at a great price. He got the Alpha T1s for the mains, the Alpha C1 for the center, the surrounds are dipoles that are a step up from the Alpha I believe, along with the 5i sub. All told it was about $1000 delivered, way less than I thought he could get away with. He went to a website of a place in Chicago that made him a better than advertised deal. Can't beat that! He also got a Marantz A/V Receiver off that website that everyone on the HT forum recommends (deals4less or something like that), and they're an authorized dealer. Not sure what he did for cables and so forth, but I think he has that covered.

So cheers to Bill for the speaker recommendation and I'll let everyone know how he likes it.

Swish

[Hyfi]

he ended up with the PSBs that Audio Bill recommended, and found them at a great price. He got the Alpha T1s for the mains, the Alpha C1 for the center, the surrounds are dipoles that are a step up from the Alpha I believe, along with the 5i sub. All told it was about $1000 delivered, way less than I thought he could get away with. He went to a website of a place in Chicago that made him a better than advertised deal. Can't beat that! He also got a Marantz A/V Receiver off that website that everyone on the HT forum recommends (deals4less or something like that), and they're an authorized dealer. Not sure what he did for cables and so forth, but I think he has that covered.

So cheers to Bill for the speaker recommendation and I'll let everyone know how he likes it.

Swish


Good picks for the money. You can't go wrong with PSBs. I remember how impressive the Stratus Golds were when I was shopping. I'm sure like many good MFGs, they use trickle down technology.

I'm in the middle of helping a friend out putting together a system. He has already picked the complete set of Dynaudio Audience speakers. I am highly recomending the Rotel 1072 CDP but looking for suggestions for a source HT Receiver that can drive the danes.

[Swish]

Good picks for the money. You can't go wrong with PSBs. I remember how impressive the Stratus Golds were when I was shopping. I'm sure like many good MFGs, they use trickle down technology.

I'm in the middle of helping a friend out putting together a system. He has already picked the complete set of Dynaudio Audience speakers. I am highly recomending the Rotel 1072 CDP but looking for suggestions for a source HT Receiver that can drive the danes.

I think that will determine what I would suggest. I mean, if it's low end, there were plenty of good choices mentioned here. I'd rather have separates myself, which I do of course. I have a big 5 channel Adcom amp and a 2 channel Adcom to drive my system, along with the Rotel RSP 1098 processor. I like the idea of being able to upgrade/replace or whatever down the road, although I don't foresee doing that anytime soon.

Swish

[Hyfi]

How much does he want to spend on the Receiver?

Swish

Fortunately, he will spend whatever it takes to get something to drive the danes. He originally was looking at a 2K dennon but of course the sales people are pushing him towards something a bit more refined and with good power. I'd say he is willing to drop about $3k for receiver/separates.

[Swish]

Fortunately, he will spend whatever it takes to get something to drive the danes. He originally was looking at a 2K dennon but of course the sales people are pushing him towards something a bit more refined and with good power. I'd say he is willing to drop about $3k for receiver/separates.

..terribly busy this week with stuff going on every night. Anyway, seeing how $3,000 is the range, I would look into the following;

Processor - Integra DTC 9.8. Read an excellent review <a href="http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/processor-receiver-product-reviews/ssps/integra-dtc-9.8-thx-ultra2-7.1-ssp.html">here</a>

Retail is $1,699 but by now it should be a little cheaper. They called it their Best of 2007.

5 Channel Amp - Adcom GFA 7605. Can be found for about $1200 or so. I would rather go with a Parasound Halo but they go for about $2000, and I don't know that performance will warrant another $800. I use Adcom amps and have the older GFA 5200 and it's been excellent for me.

Swish

[bobsticks]

..terribly busy this week with stuff going on every night. Anyway, seeing how $3,000 is the range, I would look into the following;

Processor - Integra DTC 9.8. Read an excellent review <a href="http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/processor-receiver-product-reviews/ssps/integra-dtc-9.8-thx-ultra2-7.1-ssp.html">here</a>

Retail is $1,699 but by now it should be a little cheaper. They called it their Best of 2007.

5 Channel Amp - Adcom GFA 7605. Can be found for about $1200 or so. I would rather go with a Parasound Halo but they go for about $2000, and I don't know that performance will warrant another $800. I use Adcom amps and have the older GFA 5200 and it's been excellent for me.

Swish

Good call on the Integra though you may want to check out the Onkyo 875 or 905, especially since you're talking about mainly using the processing functions. These units may have more connectivity options than the Integra.

I have heard the Danes with Rotel amps and it made a fantastic pairing. I mean, way better than one would think. There's a thread up yonder in the General Audio forum about "Best Systems" and I would say that, for the money, the Dane/Rotel combo was one of the best I'd heard at that price point.

[Swish]

Good call on the Integra though you may want to check out the Onkyo 875 or 905, especially since you're talking about mainly using the processing functions. These units may have more connectivity options than the Integra.

I have heard the Danes with Rotel amps and it made a fantastic pairing. I mean, way better than one would think. There's a thread up yonder in the General Audio forum about "Best Systems" and I would say that, for the money, the Dane/Rotel combo was one of the best I'd heard at that price point.

...at least the 5 channel I checked out did, something like $2500 and that leaves just $500 for the processor.

Swish

[bobsticks]

...at least the 5 channel I checked out did, something like $2500 and that leaves just $500 for the processor.

Swish

IMO, money is best spent on a new processor, but damn viejo go used on an amp...

...maybe a lil somethin' somethin' like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROTEL-RMB-1075-FIVE-CHANNEL-AMP-THX_W0QQitemZ180207701990QQihZ008QQcategoryZ14973Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[audiobill]

Yeah!!!!!

I just checked into the thread today Swish.......sorry for th long wait, but busy as hell, lately.

He'll be glad he went with the dipoles (that's what I have) and he'll be amazed with sounds on soundtracks for years to come. Now, a front HD projector will complete the picture, say 122" diagonal or bigger.

Forget about the high def blueray/HD dvd battle and settle into a nice upconverting DVD, until the dust settles.

Glad it worked out for your bud.

Cheers,

audiobill


he ended up with the PSBs that Audio Bill recommended, and found them at a great price. He got the Alpha T1s for the mains, the Alpha C1 for the center, the surrounds are dipoles that are a step up from the Alpha I believe, along with the 5i sub. All told it was about $1000 delivered, way less than I thought he could get away with. He went to a website of a place in Chicago that made him a better than advertised deal. Can't beat that! He also got a Marantz A/V Receiver off that website that everyone on the HT forum recommends (deals4less or something like that), and they're an authorized dealer. Not sure what he did for cables and so forth, but I think he has that covered.

So cheers to Bill for the speaker recommendation and I'll let everyone know how he likes it.

Swish

[Swish]

IMO, money is best spent on a new processor, but damn viejo go used on an amp...

...maybe a lil somethin' somethin' like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROTEL-RMB-1075-FIVE-CHANNEL-AMP-THX_W0QQitemZ180207701990QQihZ008QQcategoryZ14973Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I like starting fresh with full factory warranties. My Paradigm speakers had a 5 year warranty and I needed it as I blew 2 tweeters. They replaced them without hassle. While you might get excellent performance from a used amp, I would rather buy knew and take that risk factor out of the process.

Swish

[Swish]

Yeah!!!!!

I just checked into the thread today Swish.......sorry for th long wait, but busy as hell, lately.

He'll be glad he went with the dipoles (that's what I have) and he'll be amazed with sounds on soundtracks for years to come. Now, a front HD projector will complete the picture, say 122" diagonal or bigger.

Forget about the high def blueray/HD dvd battle and settle into a nice upconverting DVD, until the dust settles.

Glad it worked out for your bud.

Cheers,

audiobill

...and I gave him the same advice you offer regarding them. As for the HD projector, he's not going to be upgrading anytime soon and will stick with his plain old Toshiba rear projection HDTV.

Thanks again for the info on the speakers. He's quite happy with them!

Swish