Weak center channel sound

[lawman]

Hey all,

So I recently attached new main speakers. Previously had used some old Yamaha bookshelfs which a cousin gifted me. My system now consists of:

Yamaha AVR 5560
Fluance SXHTB+ mains, center and surrounds

My DVD players is a cheap Walmart Phillips but I have it hooked up to my AVR using a digital coax (thanks Mr. Peabody!) so it is putting out DD5.1 / EX / DTS.

Before, when I was using the Yamaha speakers the dialog sounded decent. However, after hooking up the new mains, I've noticed that during action scenes dialog is very low, usually overpowered by the rest of the effects. Things improved somewhat after I increased the level on the center channel to +3Db and lowered the rest to 0 or +0.5Db. However its still not great. Any ideas about what I could do? I've thought about speaker placement but haven't tried anything yet. My room is quite large. It's an attic apartment so the ceiling comes down pretty low.

Thanks!
Lawman

P.S. Am using 16ga Monster XP to connect the center and mains. Surrounds are connected by 16ga wire I got from Fluance.

[L.J.]

I take it your AVR doesn't have an auto setup feature? If not, you'll need to pick up an analog spl meter from RadioShack to correctly set your levels.

[lawman]

Ok betraying my newbie status here - had not realized there was such a thing as auto setup! However, I fear I may not have it, given that the AVR is kinda old (bought second hand off of craigslist).

Will check about the auto setup.

Thanks!

[L.J.]

Ok betraying my newbie status here - had not realized there was such a thing as auto setup! However, I fear I may not have it, given that the AVR is kinda old (bought second hand off of craigslist).

Will check about the auto setup.

Thanks!

If it had auto setup a mic would have been included. You'd put the mic at your main sitting location and the AVR would run a series of test tones. After that it would take measurements with the mic and set your speaker levels & distances.

Your most likely gonna have to pick up a SPL meter. It's the only way to correctly set your levels. It's worth the money though. You can also try aiming/tilting your center toward the listening area.

[kelsci]

Lawman; If you have a small vtvm tester with an ohm meter, place the two test terminals into your center channel and see what dc resistance comes up.

I do not use the radio shack or any other type of sound meter. This is what I suggest you do if the receiver does not have an auto set-up. Before you start the procedures I mention keep in mind that whatever adjustments you make, you will work from minus to plus. If during the adjustments you go to a minus number, again your final adjustement should be from minus to plus.

Turn the two surround speakers amd center channel down to the lowest minus setting on the receiver keeping in mind what your setting was before you lowered the audio on those speakers. Put on a dvd that has good up front stereo and dialogue. Set your left and right main speakers to 0.Slowly fool with the volume control of the receiver until the sound level of the stereo speakers sound most pleasing to your ears both in volume and stereo imaging. On the center channel begin slowly raising the level where the dialogue sounds comfortable to you while the left and right main speakers still maintain proper stereo imaging. Turnup your surround speakers to the previous level and see how this all works. You might want to adjust your surround speakers if you are not satisfied with the level.

[musicman1999]

The goal is to have the volume level the same, at the seating position, from all speakers and the only way to do that accurately is to use a test tone and a sound meter.


bill

[kelsci]

Hi Musicman; I agree with your goals but I do not agree that the sound meter and test tones are the answer. Personally, I owned and returned the radioshack analog meter after performing those tests. HOWEVER; everybodys hearing may have variances, mine is not as perfect as it used to be but the method I stated above does work and works well.

[musicman1999]

The reason that you use a test tone is that each channel will be outputting the same signal, this is the only way that the levels can be set accurately, using program material will not give each channel the same signal.
I have very sharp hearing, despite my 48 years, and when i set up a system or make changes to mine i can, using a test tone, balance the levels to about one DB by ear but i always check and correct using my sound meter.
What did you dislike about using the sound meter?

bill

[lawman]

Thanks for your advice guys. Unfortuntely do not have either an SPL meter or the other type kelsci mentioned. Guess will have to wait until after the holidays to fix this issue then!

I did manage to improve things somewhat by fiddling with speaker placement. I realized my mains were positioned a little too far away from the center. I brought them in closer, and inline with the center (they were a bit ahead before) and not only has the center sound improved but my surrounds have improved as well. Unfortunately the center is still a bit weak. Could be just that one DVD but I've been testing with Fellowship of the Ring and the scene where they enter the Mines of Moria just lacks oomph.

FWIW, managed to really bring the bass out of my speakers though. Can really feel the rumble.

Cheers and Happy Holidays!

[L.J.]

The Radio Shack meter (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103668&cp=&sr=1&origkw=sound+level+meter&kw=sound+level+meter&parentPage=search) goes for around $40. I use mine all the time since I'm always moving things around and toying with my subs. I recently moved my surrounds so I had to recalibrate.

Have fun tweaking!

[pixelthis]

Thanks for your advice guys. Unfortuntely do not have either an SPL meter or the other type kelsci mentioned. Guess will have to wait until after the holidays to fix this issue then!

I did manage to improve things somewhat by fiddling with speaker placement. I realized my mains were positioned a little too far away from the center. I brought them in closer, and inline with the center (they were a bit ahead before) and not only has the center sound improved but my surrounds have improved as well. Unfortunately the center is still a bit weak. Could be just that one DVD but I've been testing with Fellowship of the Ring and the scene where they enter the Mines of Moria just lacks oomph.

FWIW, managed to really bring the bass out of my speakers though. Can really feel the rumble.

Cheers and Happy Holidays!

A few things.
Most DD receivers have a +10 db option for the center, that might help.
And I had a DD setup for a year, setting the speakers by ear, then I got a spl meter for Christmas. This is the best 40$ you can spend, you're system will come to life.
ALSO I was wondering how those Fluance speakers sound, I see them on this site all of the time at very low price points. I am looking at a pair of very nice towers right now for 299$. Rather hard to beleive.
Happy holidays:1:

[lawman]

Pixel

So I should first say that my reasoning with buying the Fluance set was simply that since I knew little to nothing about HT spending $299 on the Fluance set was a great way to move down the learning curve. Plus, the reviews seemed off the charts so I figured my bets couldn't go very wrong. So I have no idea how they rate compared to good quality $1000+ speakers.

That said, I've been pretty happy with Fluance so far. I've only just got my mains so they aren't broken in yet. Fluance was quite professional - UPS lost my package so they sent me a replacement set overnight. The build quality of the speakers is great - they're VERY heavy. The mains are bi-wireable. The bass sounds tight, not boomy. Higher-sounds are a bit too erm...not sure what sure what the word is...crisp? bright? but I'm using a Yamaha HTR 5560 so that could be due to the receiver.

Long and short of it - I doubt Fluance will substitute for high-end speakers for sound quality, but they're definitely not a scam. Instead they're a great choice for people who might otherwise have been constrained to buy a HTIB.

Am looking forward to the mains breaking in!

[kelsci]

Hi Lawman; My explanation on what to do is done by ear. Let the FORCE guide you, PADEWON.

Hi Musicman; I did not like the settings on my receiver that the RS meter delivered soundwise. To me, it felt a kind of out-of-balance volume wise and tone wise. Also the meter sets your receiver at the so called reference levels. But suppose you find reference level too loud for our own comfort and lower your volume to what you consider more comfortable to your hearing. I found at least that the receiver I was using would not allow me to get a comfortable sound to my ears doing this. As I mentioned by ear calibration, my goal is to adjust the receiver at the levels of comfortable hearing that I can tolerate. If my hearing is off which I think it is to some extent at the age of 61, then I may very well be hearing something uncomfortable if I used a meter to set the receiver at reference levels and to the balances of each channel that the meter might show. I also felt that my receivers sounded more to the audiophiles regard of "straight wire without gain" by ear then what the meter told me to use.

[pixelthis]

Hi Lawman; My explanation on what to do is done by ear. Let the FORCE guide you, PADEWON.

Hi Musicman; I did not like the settings on my receiver that the RS meter delivered soundwise. To me, it felt a kind of out-of-balance volume wise and tone wise. Also the meter sets your receiver at the so called reference levels. But suppose you find reference level too loud for our own comfort and lower your volume to what you consider more comfortable to your hearing. I found at least that the receiver I was using would not allow me to get a comfortable sound to my ears doing this. As I mentioned by ear calibration, my goal is to adjust the receiver at the levels of comfortable hearing that I can tolerate. If my hearing is off which I think it is to some extent at the age of 61, then I may very well be hearing something uncomfortable if I used a meter to set the receiver at reference levels and to the balances of each channel that the meter might show. I also felt that my receivers sounded more to the audiophiles regard of "straight wire without gain" by ear then what the meter told me to use.


Good news about the Fluance, I HAVE PROBABLY HAD WORSE.
And you are using your spl meter wrong.
You set your speakers to reference level (70db) and this might be quite loud.
Then you exit setup , and adjust vollume accordingly.
This is supposed to set the relative vollume of each speaker in relation to each other, you're not supposed to listen to them at this level(unless you want to):1:

[GregLee]

I've had this problem. Turning up the center channel volume didn't seem to work very well. Tilting the center speaker so it pointed more directly toward listeners' ears helped a little. Buying a better center speaker helped even more -- I got an Axiom M2i because it had good off-axis FR specs (and because it's very cheap for a quality speaker).