Amplifier for Paradigm Reference Studio 20V3 [Archive]

tony340

12-01-2007, 07:22 PM

Hi Guys!
Its been a very long time since my last post on AR!
But i would love your guys input on my upgrade in amplifier and CD player...
I'm currently using the studio 20's with the NAD 3020 AND C540 CD player, so now its time to upgrade...

Any thoughts on whats going on at present in the market? Any idea on what i should get?
I live in Singapore, so there are a number of options, but i cant carry my speakers to the shop all the time since they are heavy and i dont own a car at present here...

So if the verdict is strong on a particular brand, i'm ready to go on your advise...

Mr Peabody

12-01-2007, 08:42 PM

What amps do you have access to? What type of sound do you like? What type of music? Are you wanting an integrated amp?

Brands like Krell, Naim or Bryston would be good and give you a controlled sound with a lot of dynamics and punch.

tony340

12-02-2007, 03:03 AM

Thanks for your input!
The brands that are available to me in Singapore are Rotel, Arcam, Nad, Audiolab and all the brands you mentioned.

But i'm on a budget!
I am looking for something around $1000 dollar catorgory. And i'm more towards a intergrated amp, my music tastes range from Rock to Blues and Latin etc

Hope you can help

basite

12-02-2007, 03:12 AM

can you go used?

I'm sure you'd find a used bryston or krell integrated or poweramp on the used market somewhere for under 1k...

both will be a huge upgrade from your Nad, if you can't go used, you could still check out Arcam or so, otherwise rotel...
any chance you would be able to get a parasound amp?

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

tony340

12-02-2007, 04:09 AM

Thanks so much mate!
Yeah there is a used market here but not very sure, maybe ebay might be an option...
Actually i tried the Rotel RA-06 with the studio 20's and it sounded very good, but was wondering if there is something better for the price.
Thank you once again for the input

Feanor

12-02-2007, 04:39 AM

Hi Guys!
Its been a very long time since my last post on AR!
But i would love your guys input on my upgrade in amplifier and CD player...
I'm currently using the studio 20's with the NAD 3020 AND C540 CD player, so now its time to upgrade...
...

A nice thing about the Paradigms, including the Reference V3's, is that they are moderately efficient, so unless your rooms is quite large, you won't need stupendous power to drive them well. But yes, I think you can do better than the NADs up to the C372 at least, and same for Rotel and Adcom models under $1k.

Definitely within your range is the Onkyo A-9555 which has had some very good reviews.

Between $1k and $2k are models from Naim and Creek than might be available used for around your maximum; their power output isn't especially high but they should be fine with the Paradigms. I personally would consider a used copy of the Bel Canto e.One S300i, or the PS Audio Trio C-100; both are "digital" amps (as is the Onkyo) and are more powerful.

tony340

12-02-2007, 06:19 AM

Where can i find a used Bel Canto? And how much will a used one cost?
Thanks for your advice

Feanor

12-02-2007, 07:53 AM

Where can i find a used Bel Canto? And how much will a used one cost?
Thanks for your advice

Audiogon is the best single place to look for used hi-fi equipment. The only issue you might have is shipping to Singapore but it doesn't hurt to ask even if the sellers says "USA only" ...
http://www.audiogon.com/

I don't see a Bel Canto integrated there now, but here is a PS Audio Trio C-100 for US$990 that you might want to check out ...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1201488627

There are a few other attractive integrates there now for under a grand, e.g. the following; (these are examples only and I'm not specifically endorsing any of them) ...

Krell KAV300i ...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1201579288

NuForce IA-7, (also a digital amp) ...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1201370889

Naim Nait 5i ...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1200599379

Classe CAP-100 that includes a phono section if that's of interest to you ...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1199402222

JohnMichael

12-02-2007, 08:01 AM

tony340

12-04-2007, 06:53 PM

Thanks everyone for your great advice, its nice to have people like you helping a bloke like me, who is relatively new to the high fidelity scene!!!

Anyways, the options that i have here in Singapore for my budget are the, Rotel RA-06 and the Rotel RA-1070, AND 1062, plus the Onkyo A 9555, plus Arcam, Marantz, and Cambridge audio options

Whats the verdict? Since i dont have 2nd hand options here

Mr Peabody

12-04-2007, 09:07 PM

With out a doubt the Arcam is the stand out amp in that group. The Arcam's are fast and detailed. They also are incredible at driving difficult speaker loads. The Rotel are well respected but to me are almost opposite the Arcam. I find Rotel quite laid back in their presentation. The FMJ series is best in the Arcam. With the Paradigm and the lower level Arcam you may find it to be.... well let's just say you won't have trouble hearing cymbals.

I have yet to hear anything bad about the 9555. It continues to amaze and please those who buy them. I'd be confident that they would be preferred over Marantz or Cambridge and they are much less money than Arcam. On a budget especially I'd suggest trying the 9555. If you buy from some place that allows 30 day return if not happy, what do you have to lose.

Feanor

12-05-2007, 05:53 AM

With out a doubt the Arcam is the stand out amp in that group. The Arcam's are fast and detailed. They also are incredible at driving difficult speaker loads. The Rotel are well respected but to me are almost opposite the Arcam. I find Rotel quite laid back in their presentation. The FMJ series is best in the Arcam. With the Paradigm and the lower level Arcam you may find it to be.... well let's just say you won't have trouble hearing cymbals.

....

Here's an Arcam C85 on Audiogon at the moment, asking $650. The A85 has 85 wpc and should driver the Paradigms very handily. This isn't one of the FMJ series however ...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1200883543

A recent but not current model FMJ integrated would be under $1k, I'd guess.

basite

12-05-2007, 06:16 AM

I'll second the Arcam,
It's definately the only product in your list that would make a big audible difference, not that rotel is bad, but they're also a bit wooly sounding, just like NAD, so you'll hear a bit of an upgrade, but it won't be like 'WOW', the arcam probably will make you feel like that :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

frenchmon

12-05-2007, 10:49 AM

The Onkyo A 9555 received a very good review from Absolute Sound with the Studio 20's v3. I own the Onkyo and find it very transparent and revealing. Dynamics are very good. An amazing amp for the money and well built.

I,ve too heard all the wonderful reviews on the 9555. Have you, or do you know of any where, or any place thats done a side by side on teh 9555 and teh Marantz PM7001? Both can be had for $399.00 at Acessories.com

frenchmon

tony340

12-08-2007, 05:35 AM

Guys! Thanks so much for everything!!!!
I've heard pretty good reviews about the Arcam FMJ A32. What do you guys think? The Arcam A90 is another one of the Arcam options.The Audiolab 8000S is highly recommended but I have no option to audition it with my speakers.

Mr Peabody

12-08-2007, 10:23 AM

The A32 would be a good choice. Here's a review.
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/arcam_a32.htm

I used the FMJ P35 3-channel to drive Dynaudio Contour t2.5 mains and t2.1 center. The amp is rated at 100x3, 100 wpc as the A32. It drove the Dyn's without any strain and sounded great. The Paradigms you have are easier to drive and more sensitive than my Dyn's. You should have a good match.

tony340

12-08-2007, 04:23 PM

Thank you very much!

JohnMichael

12-08-2007, 06:03 PM

I,ve too heard all the wonderful reviews on the 9555. Have you, or do you know of any where, or any place thats done a side by side on teh 9555 and teh Marantz PM7001? Both can be had for $399.00 at Acessories.com

frenchmon

Bon soir Frenchmon. Je regrette but I am unaware of any comparisons between the Onkyo and Marantz.

tony340

12-08-2007, 09:26 PM

tony340

12-09-2007, 02:16 AM

There is a Bel Canto Evo 2 Gen 2 Ref power amp on ebay... Just wondering iof its worthwhile to bid for it? Do u think theres a chance for me to get it for under a grand?? Thanks

Feanor

12-09-2007, 03:17 AM

There is a Bel Canto Evo 2 Gen 2 Ref power amp on ebay... Just wondering iof its worthwhile to bid for it? Do u think theres a chance for me to get it for under a grand?? Thanks

I owned a Bel Canto eVo2i Gen 2 integrated. It was a very fine amp indeed; I would say easily equal to or better than an Arcam FMJ.

Do you intend to user your NAD as a preamp? That should be satisfactory, though an inferior preamp will limit you power amp's performance; (although, IMO, the power amp typically makes more difference).

When dealing on eBay take a good look a the seller's reputation. Read buyers' comments carefully, and also look for relatively recent responses. I recommend not dealing with anyone with less than 99% approval. Also, take account of the shipping charges.

Yes, might get luck and get the Bel for under a grand -- but don't get sucked into bidding more than you're really able and willing to pay.

tony340

12-09-2007, 03:52 AM

thank you so much for your kindness! Yes i will definitely be careful when bidding, but the seller has no comments since its his first sale... Also please forgive me for asking, but does this amp need a pre? i am very sorry but this is my ignorance!!!!!

Mr Peabody

12-09-2007, 06:40 AM

A "power" amp will need a preamp. You should look at "integrated" amps which is the pre and power in one box. I also differ with Feanor, I maintain that the preamp is more important to sound quality than the power amp. You need a good power amp to maintain the signal and to efficiently drive whatever speakers you have but if your signal is degraded in the preamp section there isn't nothing a power amp can do to correct that. Each link down stream from the source on can only maintain, it cannot add anything that isn't there coming into the input. The Bel Canto would still be a good move, as Feanor stated you could use the NAD's preamp output to drive the Bel Canto until you save up enough to get a better preamp.

If your budget don't allow for the A32, it isn't going to afford a Bryston. I'm not sure if Parasound makes an integrated but that would be a good line to look at. Parasound won't be as clean as Arcam but they have always been known for plenty strength and quality at their price. It may be separates from them could come close to your budget. Luxman has not been in the states for some time. I've had a couple vintage pieces and those have been very clean and detailed but lacked in bass punch to my taste. Any Musical Fidelity over there.

In your budget to gain any substantial quality over your NAD you will have to either buy in steps, like get a power then a pre, or patiently watch the used market for the right deal.

tony340

12-10-2007, 07:45 AM

Mr Peabody

12-10-2007, 06:35 PM

You use 220 volt where you are at don't you?

basite

12-11-2007, 05:11 AM

Guys!
Actually i just found out that there are dealers for brands like Bryston, Parasound, Luxman etc here in Singapore!!!!! So the options are all there, since i've checked through the websites... So as long as the price is within my budget, i would like to get the best for the money!!! It is impossible to carry my speakers to the dealer, so i've to be very sure that the amp will match... I checked, the Arcam FMJ A32 is beyond my budget, so what options are the best options for me within my price range?? I know these are hard questions but i'm very new to Hi Fi so i need lots of advice, and i'm confident u guys can help!!
Thanks for everything so far...

If you can get one,
Get a luxman...

they've been gone for quite a while (they were a real exotic high end brand in the 70's, in the 80's alpine bought them and all went bad, but they're back again, bringing you extremely high end stuff)

get one of their integrateds or so, if you can find one for under 1k...
do mind you get a new luxman, anything old is from the alpine era and therefore is bad.

if you can't get a luxman, I'd take the parasound or the bryston...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

tony340

12-11-2007, 03:53 PM

Yes, we use 220V here in Singapore, but i do use a lot of other appliances in my home that i bought in the states which are 110, but i use them through step down transformers... Thanks for the info on Luxman, but the only thing is, i dont see them having a proper website! Do u know the address??

tony340

12-11-2007, 05:46 PM

Also there is a Naim Nait 5i Integrated... Is it a good amp??

Feanor

12-11-2007, 06:01 PM

guys, i'm really looking for second hand gear i guess, cos to get something good, and affordable, its the only way... anyways, there are 2 mcintosh amps on ebay... one is the mc 7100 and the other is mc 2002. both are power amps and wil need pre amps. what do u think???

They are sweet lookers, especailly the MC 2002 with the meters. But for sound, you'll be much better off with the Bel Canto or, for that matter, the Arcam FMJ.

Feanor

12-11-2007, 06:04 PM

Also there is a Naim Nait 5i Integrated... Is it a good amp??

I haven't heard it personally but the Nait 5i has a great reputation. Only 60 wpc, but that would be enough in a small-medium room with the Paradigms.

Mr Peabody

12-11-2007, 09:27 PM

The Nait is good and Naim's 60 watts is a mighty powerful 60 watts. Naim seems to have better synergy with other Naim gear though, so keep that in mind.

tony340

12-12-2007, 12:39 AM

Ok guys thanks so much... I will be trying to make a decision by the end of the week..
So everyone feel the Luxman to be a good bet with my studio 20? And if so which model?

basite

12-12-2007, 07:38 AM

They are sweet lookers, especailly the MC 2002 with the meters. But for sound, you'll be much better off with the Bel Canto or, for that matter, the Arcam FMJ.

he should look for a new Mcintosh integrated, the 7100 is a small mc, it doesn't have the tranny they're famous for. And the 2002 is vintage, with the vintage Mc sound.
But I can't see how he could go wrong with a newer Mcintosh integrated or pre/power combo...

or an accuphase, a used one, a 210 or a 211 or so...

For the Luxman, it would be a really good amp (and I've heard one of their integrateds), but unfortunately, their entry model already costs 2k in Japan (country of origin), so I expect the prizes in other countries to be even higher...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Feanor

12-12-2007, 09:32 AM

he should look for a new Mcintosh integrated, the 7100 is a small mc, it doesn't have the tranny they're famous for. And the 2002 is vintage, with the vintage Mc sound.
But I can't see how he could go wrong with a newer Mcintosh integrated or pre/power combo...

or an accuphase, a used one, a 210 or a 211 or so...

For the Luxman, it would be a really good amp (and I've heard one of their integrateds), but unfortunately, their entry model already costs 2k in Japan (country of origin), so I expect the prizes in other countries to be even higher...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

McIntosh integrates manufactured within the last 10 years will give the Arcam FMJ, Naim, and Bel Canto a run for their money. Mac integrates in this category include the MA4500, 6300, 6500, 6850, 6900. But note: of these only the MA6900 has the autoformer output.

I'm not sure I'd recommend older Accuphase or Luxman, and the newer ones are exceedingly expensive.

basite

12-12-2007, 09:57 AM

McIntosh integrates manufactured within the last 10 years will give the Arcam FMJ, Naim, and Bel Canto a run for their money. Mac integrates in this category include the MA4500, 6300, 6500, 6850, 6900. But note: of these only the MA6900 has the autoformer output.

I'm not sure I'd recommend older Accuphase or Luxman, and the newer ones are exceedingly expensive.

4500? don't you mean the 6450 and the 6400, I don't think there ever was a 4500...

older luxmans aren't that good anymore, good ones back then were class A, but their design was faulty in the long term, and they exausted the amp, so when you buy a old luxman integrated, which was class A, you will probably find it sounding muffled...

and the Accuphase I ment (210 and 211) are like 6 years old at most, I wouldn't call that old :)
a few months ago my dealer had a 4 year old accuphase E211, listed for €1000, it was gone within one week...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Feanor

12-12-2007, 10:21 AM

4500? don't you mean the 6450 and the 6400, I don't think there ever was a 4500...

and the Accuphase I ment (210 and 211) are like 6 years old at most, I wouldn't call that old :)
a few months ago my dealer had a 4 year old accuphase E211, listed for €1000, it was gone within one week...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Yes, I meant the MA6450.

And sort of yes: a E-210, (1995+), or particularly a E-211, (1998+), would be worth pouncing on at <$1500. In fact I'd love one, especially with a phono board. But I don't know how likely you'd be to find one at that price.

Mr Peabody

12-12-2007, 05:05 PM

If you can use 110v you can find a Krell 300i sometimes for $1k or less. The 300i would rock, Class A preamp, 150 wpc rated but seemingly endless power and Krell's iron grip control with deep hard hitting bass and true fully balanced circuits. Krell is another brand though I feel has better synergy either with the same brand or at least one with similar goals, balanced and extremely high current topology. The 300i would light up the Paradigms though.

I wonder what effect using a power converter would have on an amp like Krell?

frenchmon

12-12-2007, 05:16 PM

Bon soir Frenchmon. Je regrette but I am unaware of any comparisons between the Onkyo and Marantz.

Thanks anyways.

frenchmon

tony340

12-13-2007, 06:01 PM

Thank you very much to everyone!! I am extremely grateful to you...
Anyways, the options of buying second hand gear is very difficult, so i have come down to a few options, the Arcam Diva A70 and A90... The Rega Brio 3 and the Rotel RA-1062...

Mr Peabody

12-13-2007, 07:03 PM

I'm not familiar with the Brio. Arcam or Rotel, I'd say it depends on what you like and what you listen to. Those two are on opposite sides of the spectrum with Arcam being fast and detailed, on the attack, no problems driving difficult loads but not the last word in brute force, while Rotel is laid back and pleasant. Although I've heard a lot of Rotel I've never had the chance to push one to the limits so I'm not sure how powerful they are.

tony340

12-19-2007, 03:36 AM

Hello fellow audiophiles! (Though i'm not one!!)
Thanks so much for everything! I finally heard the best for the money...
I bought the Rotel RA-1062 which matched the studio 20 brilliantly. So i got it for $600, and really good value.. So thank you and i hope you can help me with my CD player, the new thread i have already started.. God bless.