So do I watch the Eagles or the Eagles tonight?

[Swish]

The Philly Eagles, my team, win or lose, are facing insurmountable odds tonight while playing at New England. They're likely to get clobbered and the betting line is one of the largest ever in the NFL at 24 I think.What a shame that cheater coach was able to pick up so many good free agents and create a monster.

Or I could watch 60 Minutes, which is running very late due to the O.T. football game, and watch their interview of the Eagles, that wonderful hit-making washed up mediocre band that just refuses to go away, although they should. How many times can they repackage their 'greatest hits' and have yet another 'huge tour'? Just go away please. Not that I watch 60 Minutes anyway. This is just one more reason to tune out.

So I guess it's the former and not the latter.

Swish

[3-LockBox]

That was a good game...if only the Eagles were capable of that kind of effort week-in/week-out.

Andy Reed musta really got the straight dope on New England ;)

[Hyfi]

That was a good game...if only the Eagles were capable of that kind of effort week-in/week-out.

Andy Reed musta really got the straight dope on New England ;)

They would be if we would get rid of McNabb! I heard Andy's kids hooked him up for the game.

[Swish]

That was a good game...if only the Eagles were capable of that kind of effort week-in/week-out.

Andy Reed musta really got the straight dope on New England ;)

Back in the day I would have been laughing my tail off when a couple dozen ticked-off RRers would have ripped me for calling N.E. cheaters or for blasting the Eagles. I guess this place is extra dead on Sunday nights, eh?

Yeah, the Iggles should really have won that game, or at least tied it up late in the 4th. They must have consulted Penn State for that red zone play that resulted in the INT that iced it for the Pats. I mean, you move it down the field with relative ease (again, like they did nearly the entire game), and then you abandon the plays that are working and lob it deep. WTF were they thinking? What make me laugh is that the Eagles offense actually outscored their offense. Take away the first INT and it's a different game. And it was in their back yard to boot.

Well, even with the loss, they proved one thing; New England is vulnerable and can be beaten with the right game plan. Their secondary was certainly exposed, and just watch what other teams do against them. Are they still the best in the league, sure, but there is a way to beat them.

Go Eagles!
Swish

[PeruvianSkies]

and yet the Eagles give NE the most challenging game of their seasons. While I am not normally a fan of the Eagles I certainly wanted to see them break NE's streak. Go Green Bay!

[3-LockBox]

Back in the day I would have been laughing my tail off when a couple dozen ticked-off RRers would have ripped me for calling N.E. cheaters or for blasting the Eagles. I guess this place is extra dead on Sunday nights, eh?

Yes it is extra dead on Sundays...and its not challenging to shoot fish in a barrel.

I agree with you though; when you like a team, you like the team. I could care less if Belichik spied on other teams, because I was a New England fan since the Grogan days, and I stayed a fan when everyone was on the '85 Bears' bandwagon and gave me a huge ration of sh!t.

Belichick is the Sith Lord and Brady his Anikan Skywalker. And yeah, they're gonna get theirs in the end, what with running up scores and such, but for now its amazing to watch.

BTW: I did use the words dope and Reed in the same sentence, which I thought was a fairly clever and biting reference (not to mention obvious).

[Swish]

Yes it is extra dead on Sundays...and its not challenging to shoot fish in a barrel.

I agree with you though; when you like a team, you like the team. I could care less if Belichik spied on other teams, because I was a New England fan since the Grogan days, and I stayed a fan when everyone was on the '85 Bears' bandwagon and gave me a huge ration of sh!t.

Belichick is the Sith Lord and Brady his Anikan Skywalker. And yeah, they're gonna get theirs in the end, what with running up scores and such, but for now its amazing to watch.

BTW: I did use the words dope and Reed in the same sentence, which I thought was a fairly clever and biting reference (not to mention obvious).

You don't care that he spied? I don't know if I like the sound of that. Kind of like saying you don't care if Barry Bonds took steroids. It's cheating and he was fined, but he should have been suspended. It was a weak punishment to say the least.

That doesn't diminish the fact that they have a great team. Unbeatable? Nope. The Eagles had them for nearly the entire game. That second INT was the killer.

Swish

[Hyfi]

That second INT was the killer.

The first one was a killer also, 2 plays into the game. All in all, the beagles showed that if they WANT IT, they can actually play like it.

Keep in mind that it was a full moon this weekend and on Saturday night, the Flyers played like they want to win and did.

I heard a few good TO comments this morning about how he complained about the Eagles organization and he was labeled a cry baby. But, he moves on and does what he does best for another team. 4 TDs in a game ain't bad. Maybe it was the Eagles/McNabb and not just TO. I really think that Reed needs to take a leave from the game and get his house in order. I don't know how he can be followed and respected to the fullest when his family is in shambles. Hmmmmm, did daddy even pay any attention besides throwing money at them?

[Troy]

"Andy Reed had the straight dope on NE" You're killin' me.

I don't care that Belichick spied, because they all do. Coordinators always cover they mouths when they all plays to avoid lip readers. Teams have always been very secretive with their play calling and signals. They are constantly changing anyway.

You should always be trying for any advantage in every sport. If you are not pushing the rulebook envelope, you're failing at your job.

Besides, Belichick has shown after spygate that they don't need the other team's signals anyway.

The guy's the most brilliant football mind since Walsh. Yeah, he's an obsessed jerk too. At that level of the sport they all are. He's changing the level of expectations in the sport and he's not taking any crap from anybody in the process. What's not to like?

Nope, TRYING to steal the other teams plays should be legal. It should be up to YOU to guard YOUR plays!

It should be legal, just like the 'roids. Most of MLB was on heavy drugs thru the 90s/early-2000s. Bonds will be a scapegoat for the entire sport. Most of MLB is still on performance enhancing drugs. Legalize it. I want to see 7 foot tall, 300 pound wide receivers, running a 4.3 40 in the NFL. I want to see a monster shot HR every other at bat. I want to see how far we can go!

See, they think they can police all this kind of stuff at all levels of sport and society, but they truly can't. There's drugs to mask the illegal drugs, just like you can put someone in the stands dressed like a fan, with a 1000mm lens to record signals. It's all unenforceable, so it should all be legal.

[3-LockBox]

Hey, if Ricky Williams can be reinstated...

The only team Belichick didn't spy on was Seattle, cuz when you run the same fvcking play on every down...yeah well...to say the Seahawks have become predictable is an understatement. Who wants Shawn Alexander? Anyone? He's guilty of cheating - his team out of a lot of money.

I hope Belichick wins 14 games and mails in the last two. Its about superbowl wins anyway. I don't care if they run the table. If they got losing in their system, let 'em get it out in the regular season, and not in the playoffs. Poetic justice isn't running the table anyway, its watching Miami going 0 wins for a season after Shula's asterisk remark. I rather see that happen then a NE perfect season.

[Troy]

Poetic justice isn't running the table anyway, its watching Miami going 0 wins for a season after Shula's asterisk remark. I rather see that happen then a NE perfect season.

Yeah, the Miami record needs an asterisk itself. The didn't play a single team with a winning record that season. Few people seem to know this little publicized fact.

[PeruvianSkies]

Go Greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen Bay!

Aside from Brady having babies and a great high-scoring season there is something else amazing happening this year that no one is talking about: Favre.

The guy's destroying teams this year, and the Patriots 11-0 record is undermining a great team in Green Bay that is putting up great numbers and really playing some great football, not to mention the fact that Favre is having without a doubt the best season of his career, at 38 years of age. The Patriots didn't look too hot against the Eagles and I think against Green Bay they would destroy their secondary as Favre has tons of options, let's talk about a guy named Jennings who is putting up huge numbers, but also isn't talked about as much as T.O. or Moss. Then there's Donald Driver, Donald Lee, and Jones, plus a great running back in Ryan Grant. If Green Bay can get past Dallas this week, it will certainly make it an easy guess to see GB vs. NE.

[Slosh]

Yeah, the Miami record needs an asterisk itself. They didn't play a single team with a winning record that season. Few people seem to know this little publicized fact.I'm not sure if you're saying this tongue-in-cheek but if you aren't keep in mind there were not 32 teams back then and thus the talent pool had much higher quality players, so many of those sub-.500 teams were better than several of today's current teams with winning records. *cough* Giants *cough* Seahawks Oh, and I believe their playoff and SB victories came again teams with winning records ;)

Okay, I was four in '72 so what the hell do I know?

[Swish]

Go Greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen Bay!

Aside from Brady having babies and a great high-scoring season there is something else amazing happening this year that no one is talking about: Favre.

The guy's destroying teams this year, and the Patriots 11-0 record is undermining a great team in Green Bay that is putting up great numbers and really playing some great football, not to mention the fact that Favre is having without a doubt the best season of his career, at 38 years of age. The Patriots didn't look too hot against the Eagles and I think against Green Bay they would destroy their secondary as Favre has tons of options, let's talk about a guy named Jennings who is putting up huge numbers, but also isn't talked about as much as T.O. or Moss. Then there's Donald Driver, Donald Lee, and Jones, plus a great running back in Ryan Grant. If Green Bay can get past Dallas this week, it will certainly make it an easy guess to see GB vs. NE.

...he did zippo against the Eagles, and they didn't deserve to win that game. That's old news and he is ripping it up pretty well with good protection and receivers. I'd like to see them beat Dallas. Speaking of the "America's Most Hated Team", how the heck do they get 3 home games in a row at this point of the season? And on Thanksgiving again too? It's just fvcking ridiculous. And their road schedule is akin to a joke, although Detroit is playing decent football for the most part.

Swish

[Swish]

"Andy Reed had the straight dope on NE" You're killin' me.

I don't care that Belichick spied, because they all do. Coordinators always cover they mouths when they all plays to avoid lip readers. Teams have always been very secretive with their play calling and signals. They are constantly changing anyway.

You should always be trying for any advantage in every sport. If you are not pushing the rulebook envelope, you're failing at your job.

Besides, Belichick has shown after spygate that they don't need the other team's signals anyway.

The guy's the most brilliant football mind since Walsh. Yeah, he's an obsessed jerk too. At that level of the sport they all are. He's changing the level of expectations in the sport and he's not taking any crap from anybody in the process. What's not to like?

Nope, TRYING to steal the other teams plays should be legal. It should be up to YOU to guard YOUR plays!

It should be legal, just like the 'roids. Most of MLB was on heavy drugs thru the 90s/early-2000s. Bonds will be a scapegoat for the entire sport. Most of MLB is still on performance enhancing drugs. Legalize it. I want to see 7 foot tall, 300 pound wide receivers, running a 4.3 40 in the NFL. I want to see a monster shot HR every other at bat. I want to see how far we can go!

See, they think they can police all this kind of stuff at all levels of sport and society, but they truly can't. There's drugs to mask the illegal drugs, just like you can put someone in the stands dressed like a fan, with a 1000mm lens to record signals. It's all unenforceable, so it should all be legal.

Please Troy. McGwire was using, we all know it, but steroids weren't illegal in baseball before 2002, so it doesn't matter. What Bond's did was use and lie about it to a grand jury. That's called perjury, and he could be going to the big house because of it. The FBI conviction rate is something like 90%, so I think he's going to pay the piper finally.

Belacheat used cameras to spy on teams and steal their signals. Reading lips isn't cheating, just like stealing signals in baseball. Rules aren't meant to be broken, especially not at this level. Yeah, I think a lot of your post was sarcasm, but I don't have my detector on, so let me know if I went over-the-top.

Swish

[Troy]

Please Troy. McGwire was using, we all know it, but steroids weren't illegal in baseball before 2002, so it doesn't matter. What Bond's did was use and lie about it to a grand jury. That's called perjury, and he could be going to the big house because of it. The FBI conviction rate is something like 90%, so I think he's going to pay the piper finally.

Belacheat used cameras to spy on teams and steal their signals. Reading lips isn't cheating, just like stealing signals in baseball. Rules aren't meant to be broken, especially not at this level. Yeah, I think a lot of your post was sarcasm, but I don't have my detector on, so let me know if I went over-the-top.

Swish

I was playing devils advocate there a little, but only a little.

I agree with your baseball comments. Bonds will go down. But there were a lot of other players, much lower profile, that could also be guilty if pressed the same way too. Perjury, yes, but what was he lying about? It's ultimately about the 'roids, and that's what people are gonna remember.

You're being Polly Anna-ish if you think that the Patriots were the only team trying to snatch other team's signals. Intercepting plays called to the QB by radio is probably illegal too. You don't think that's ever been done already? How do you enforce that? If a rule can't be policed or enforced, get rid of it.

It's not cheating if they change the rules. Changing the rules to accommodate evolving technology is usually brought about by people pushing the rulebook envelope- see motorsports. Why is lip reading legal and filming not? How arcane! These sports need to move into the 21st century.

Yes, in this context steroids and HGH etc. are part of evolving technology too. They can be masked by other drugs and I don't doubt that there are other drugs being consumed today that aren't illegal yet too. You can't stay ahead of it and you look at the alternative: scapegoats like Bonds going down in flames or even entire sports like cycling or Olympic track and field torn apart as we find out after events that every player was juiced in one way or another. SO that means that every sport is about which player can have the best concoction of drugs? If that's the case (and I think we all know it is), then let them do whatever they want and disclose it all. Legalize it.

(aside- another idea perfect for that mess they called a football game monday night: The rain washed off the lines and numbers on the field and spotting the ball was a real problem. Why doesn't the ball have a GPS sensor in it so that it can be spotted in exactly the right place, every play. There's never any question as to where it goes out of bounds or where it is at any time during the game. Every movement could be tracked in real time. Seems like a no brainer to me)

In a nutshell: yes using cameras to record signals is cheating, but it shouldn't be.

I'd like to see the Packers stomp the Cowgirls, even though I have Owens in my fantasy league. There's a term that needs to change too: Fantasy League. Sounds like I should be wearing a tutu when I draft my players.

This season has been filled with extremes. Monday night was the longest 0-0 tie in forever. It went without a score until the last 17 seconds. Miami, is looking to go winless. Then you have the Pats and their streak. Meanwhile here's 3 teams with only one loss this late in the season, which would be big news most years. Brady and Moss are on track to shatter what many have considered unbreakable single season records. You have the most rushing yards in a game ever (Peterson) and in the SAME GAME you have the longest touchdown return ever. The whole spygate thing has opened up a pandoras box of accusation and potential for the idea of other high tech espionage. It's been a very weird season.

[bobsticks]

Yes, in this context steroids and HGH etc. are part of evolving technology too. They can be masked by other drugs and I don't doubt that there are other drugs being consumed today that aren't illegal yet too. You can't stay ahead of it and you look at the alternative: scapegoats like Bonds going down in flames or even entire sports like cycling or Olympic track and field torn apart as we find out after events that every player was juiced in one way or another. SO that means that every sport is about which player can have the best concoction of drugs? If that's the case (and I think we all know it is), then let them do whatever they want and disclose it all. Legalize it.

.


Yup. I have long contended this if only to address the hypocrisy at large and the common misconceptions about steroids perpetuated by the media. A betting man would argue that a full 70-80% of pro athletes are on the gas and he'd be right. Anybody wanna argue the old Babe Ruth level-playing-field schtick? Blah, blah, blah, wubba, wubba...It amuses me in two aspects--the assumptions that just a very few are guilty and the myth that you take a few pills, or topicals, or shots and instantly get big. Even with HGH mass immediately turns to fat or atrophies without a solid workout. There's no free ride.

So much of this is matter of context. Most if not all of the things taken on a "recreational" or non-controlled basis are perfectly legal within the confines of a perscription, be it for physical therapy, sterility, impotence, allergies, or any number of common maladies. Further, a number of popular anabolics aren't even illegal by the letter of the law due to the changing and designer nature of the industry and soon cases will lapse in battles over scemantics and timelines. Hell, Oxycontin/codone is an alkaloid opiate and Percocets are a couple few molecules away from being a raw heroin/acetaminophen concoction.

I'm emphatically not supporting perjury but I'm just sayin'...

[johnny p]

also keep in mind, in order for Miami to go winless (which I'm pulling for too) would require the Patriots to beat them the last game of the season.... so here's the scenario......

NE Undefeated,
Miami Winless....

What an upset that would be.... the 72' Dolphins would pop a LOT of Champagne for that one.... OR the 72' Dolphins would recieve a MAJOR one-two punch!

[PeruvianSkies]

...he did zippo against the Eagles, and they didn't deserve to win that game. That's old news and he is ripping it up pretty well with good protection and receivers. I'd like to see them beat Dallas. Speaking of the "America's Most Hated Team", how the heck do they get 3 home games in a row at this point of the season? And on Thanksgiving again too? It's just fvcking ridiculous. And their road schedule is akin to a joke, although Detroit is playing decent football for the most part.

Swish

But they did shut down the Vikings and I do mean shut down! I think Green Bay will win the Super Bowl this year.

[Rich-n-Texas]

So if enough people commit murder... legalize it? I don't think Hank Aaron did steroids when he set the record, which as far as I'm concerned hasn't yet been broken. Barry Bonds single-handedly put a dark shadow on baseball's integrity IMO. Also, he didn't just lie in court, he lied to his faithfull fans and he lied to the ticket buying public that attended the games in every stadium he played. Not to stereotype or anything, but for some people the story never changes.

I don't recall hearing about any players in the NHL being charged with steroid use, which to me still stands up as the purest sport with the utmost integrity in this greed driven country.

BTW, I always thought you were taller with large bloodshot eyes. :biggrin5:

[Troy]

So if enough people commit murder... legalize it?

Apples and oranges my friend. Who are they hurting besides themselves? Ask Matuszak about the long term "benefits" of 'roids. I'd equate it more to legalizing pot.


I don't think Hank Aaron did steroids when he set the record, which as far as I'm concerned hasn't yet been broken.

You don't think the game had changed completely between Ruth and Aaron too? Steroids are part of the changing face of baseball just like livelier bats, the DH, inter-league play and instant replay.

You gotta get over it or stop caring about the sport. I know others who have given up on baseball.


Barry Bonds single-handedly put a dark shadow on baseball's integrity IMO. Also, he didn't just lie in court, he lied to his faithfull fans and he lied to the ticket buying public that attended the games in every stadium he played. Not to stereotype or anything, but for some people the story never changes.

I'm not defending his perjury. All I'm saying is that if everybody is moving towards performance enhancing drugs on the sly anyway, let them do it in the open.


I don't recall hearing about any players in the NHL being charged with steroid use, which to me still stands up as the purest sport with the utmost integrity in this greed driven country.

I think the way fighting is condoned, and even expected in Hockey is reprehensible and is utterly lacking in integrity. But that's just me.


BTW, I always thought you were taller with large bloodshot eyes. :biggrin5:

Short fat guy, sorry. I do have the bloodshot eyes though . . .

[Rich-n-Texas]

Apples and oranges my friend. Who are they hurting besides themselves? Ask Matuszak about the long term "benefits" of 'roids. I'd equate it more to legalizing pot.
When you take it down to the basic tennets of what's right and what's wrong, what's allowed and not allowed in our society (which yeah, I just got done badmouthing), I don't see where there's a difference. If you're talking about the players when you say who are they hurting, I contend they're hurting the sport, and driving the purists, which, love 'em or leave 'em do exist in all sports, away. I have a competitive nature and I'm a big fan of competitive sports, so there's no place for cheating as far as I'm concerned.

Matuszak... John Matuszak right? I know he died, but was it due to steroid abuse? You're not cheating when you're smoking pot, and yeah, I guess it's a victimless crime, but in Bond's case, the fans are the victims.

You don't think the game had changed completely between Ruth and Aaron too? Steroids are part of the changing face of baseball just like livelier bats, the DH, inter-league play and instant replay.
Sure those things (minus the corked bat reference) had an influence on the sport, but they're not illegal. They didn't change the game for the worst like steroid use has, IMO.


You gotta get over it or stop caring about the sport. I know others who have given up on baseball.
NAILED IT!!! When the comissoner gets the house back in order maybe my interest will return.

I'm not defending his perjury. All I'm saying is that if everybody is moving towards performance enhancing drugs on the sly anyway, let them do it in the open.
I'm sorry. I just can't accept that. Call me old and in the way, but that philosophy just rubs me wrong.

I think the way fighting is condoned, and even expected in Hockey is reprehensible and is utterly lacking in integrity. But that's just me.
Uh uhh. Fighting is NOT condoned in hockey. It happens as a by-product of a tough, extremely competitive sport with a lot of hard checking which is legal. I remember reading a couple of years ago about the networks not being willing to air games nationally because of the fighting. The rules were changed (made stricter) to accomodate NBC's demands. TV exposure = big bucks for the owners... goes back to that greed driven society theory.

Short fat guy, sorry. I do have the bloodshot eyes though . . .
Yeah, me too. Yeah, me too. Especially on Saturday mornings.

[Troy]

Yeah Rich, I know my views are out of the ordinary and maybe more frank than a lot of purists like. But I also think it's the future of sports, whether we like it or not. The genie is out of the bottle.

Based on what I'm seeing in the news with European cycling and the Tour de France and the whole Marion Jones Olympics thing, it won't be long before the whole meaning of, and reason for fair play in sports goes down in flames, unless the drugs are just accepted as part of the diet and training program.

It's just the beginning. More and more sports figures will admit to juicing as time passes. It's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out over the coming years.

And you can't fool me, many people watch hockey specifically for the fights, just like they watch NASCAR for the crashes.

[3-LockBox]

Matuszak... John Matuszak right? I know he died, but was it due to steroid abuse? You're not cheating when you're smoking pot, and yeah, I guess it's a victimless crime, but in Bond's case, the fans are the victims.

Lyle Alzado too.

Where's Raphael Palmero? Is he in prison? He baltantly commited perjury in front of Congress, indignately wagged his finger at them (so did Bill Clinton). What's Barry more guilty of...perjury, using steroids, or breaking Hank Aaron's home run record when no one wanted him to?

Let's face it, the media had an ax to grind with Bonds anyway. Before the rumors of steroid use in baseball, Bonds was a notorious prick, to both fans and the media. Baseball fans want all that humility and "awe shucks, garsh gee whiz" crap that that other big time steroid abuser Mark McGuire spewed out. Have you seen him lately? Him and wrinkled fore-skin looking neck? Oh yeah, that's right, 'roids weren't illegal when he was shooting up. :nonod:

Where were all the people crying about steroids when Big Mac was breaking the single season home run record? If people weren't concerned with 'roids then, why the hell should they care now?

Basebal should be so lucky if their biggest problem was steroid abuse. Its the least of their problems.

[PeruvianSkies]

Yeah Rich, I know my views are out of the ordinary and maybe more frank than a lot of purists like. But I also think it's the future of sports, whether we like it or not. The genie is out of the bottle.

Based on what I'm seeing in the news with European cycling and the Tour de France and the whole Marion Jones Olympics thing, it won't be long before the whole meaning of, and reason for fair play in sports goes down in flames, unless the drugs are just accepted as part of the diet and training program.

It's just the beginning. More and more sports figures will admit to juicing as time passes. It's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out over the coming years.

And you can't fool me, many people watch hockey specifically for the fights, just like they watch NASCAR for the crashes.

People watch NASCAR for the crashes? News to me.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I didn't. I watched NASCAR races to see Dale Earnhardt win. He was a hero of mine; drug free, but when he died, so went my enthusiasm for the sport.

I suppose I'm on the losing end of the debate, but if everybody things drugs are the future of sports I guess I'll try to hack a bigger disk drive into my PVR and save my Eagles, Phillies and Flyers games before it's too late.

One more note: Legislation is being/has passed here in Texas to start Steriod screening at the High School level.

[Swish]

Lyle Alzado too.

Where's Raphael Palmero? Is he in prison? He baltantly commited perjury in front of Congress, indignately wagged his finger at them (so did Bill Clinton). What's Barry more guilty of...perjury, using steroids, or breaking Hank Aaron's home run record when no one wanted him to?

Let's face it, the media had an ax to grind with Bonds anyway. Before the rumors of steroid use in baseball, Bonds was a notorious prick, to both fans and the media. Baseball fans want all that humility and "awe shucks, garsh gee whiz" crap that that other big time steroid abuser Mark McGuire spewed out. Have you seen him lately? Him and wrinkled fore-skin looking neck? Oh yeah, that's right, 'roids weren't illegal when he was shooting up. :nonod:

Where were all the people crying about steroids when Big Mac was breaking the single season home run record? If people weren't concerned with 'roids then, why the hell should they care now?

Basebal should be so lucky if their biggest problem was steroid abuse. Its the least of their problems.

...do anything illegal because steroids were not banned at that time, so you can't said a dang thing about it. I don't condone it but they weren't banned at that time.

Swish

[bobsticks]

I don't recall hearing about any players in the NHL being charged with steroid use, which to me still stands up as the purest sport with the utmost integrity in this greed driven country.


I love hockey. Period. But fair is fair and right is right and you can't use this argument. Before the reorganization derived from the lockout season there was no drug testing policy unless you were already in the league's substance abuse program, which meant you were already so far-gone that you were repeatedly missing work or getting arrested. You can't find what you're not looking for.

Even now, there's no testing done for steroids and the piss-test you take is equivalent to the one the kids take to get the job at Best Buy--and I think we all know a fair amount of them are on drugs.

The issue with hockey is that nobody fits the body type of what the public believes to be a steroid-freak and that's because the workouts are different. You work out for endurance and strength not mass. If you're 6 foot and 195-210 you can both skate and make some room around the crease. If you're 6 foot and juiced up to 245lbs. you can fight like an MMA fighter but yer blown up by your third shift.

Not to rain on your parade, but between the booze and the muscle relaxants and the coke and the 'roids there's probably more drug use in hockey than in any other sport...and Santa's black, the Tooth Fairy is gay, and Sasquatch is a shriner in a gibbon suit.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I would say that 99% of hockey players play because they love the sport and come from other countries where the almighty dollar is not the bottom line. Booze is legal, prescription drugs are legal and cocaine doesn't enhance performance but is rather a recreational drug. If there IS more drug use in hockey, it's not used as an organized method for cheating in the sport.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Not to rain on your parade, but between the booze and the muscle relaxants and the coke and the 'roids there's probably more drug use in hockey than in any other sport...and Santa's black, the Tooth Fairy is gay, and Sasquatch is a shriner in a gibbon suit.


You left out the performance-enhancement drug of choice for hockey players - amphetamines.



Even now, there's no testing done for steroids

I believe that is incorrect as a couple of players have been caught for steroid use - Brian Berard for one.


I would say that 99% of hockey players play because they love the sport and come from other countries where the almighty dollar is not the bottom line. Booze is legal, prescription drugs are legal and cocaine doesn't enhance performance but is rather a recreational drug. If there IS more drug use in hockey, it's not used as an organized method for cheating in the sport..

I guess you've never watched Alexei Yashin play, no way someone can play like that and "love the game"

But I think that if there was the concerted effort (read; witch hunt) to find steroid use in hockey as there is for Baseball, I think you'd find considerable steroid use among those players who are in the league for their fighting prowess. I know that John Kordic was a steroid casualty long-before steroids were de rigeur. And another former "enforcer" Dave Morissette, admitted to using 'roids.

But Bobsticks point is well taken, and performance enhancement can take other forms besides steroids, and amphetamines abuse i the NHLs dirty little secret. Now, having said all that, I probably fall into the Troy school of thought, with the obscene amounts of money at stake, you can't stop these kind of "abuses" so just let them do whatever they think it takes - within the rule of law, I suppose.

[bobsticks]

LOL...Yashin...what a douchebag. The contents of my mouth just about hit my monitor via my nose.

Amphetamines make sense, get all horked up on ephedrine derivatives to temporarily clear out the cardiovascular system. I guess it's all in who you know. Rich, you're down in Texas, you could run a little experiment for us. Hang out in the parking lot of The Clubhouse for twenty minutes and see what you get offered first.

I'll concede the point on current testing procedure, but it's extremely recent, like this year recent I reckon. (http://www.nhlpa.com/PerformanceEnhancing/index.asp ). It was only a couple of years ago that the NHL and the U.S. Olympic Committe were at odds because the league didn't want the players subjected to "inconsistent testing procedures".

The problem with the rest of it is that it's a cyclical lifestyle. 82 sessions of any extremely hard-hitting, violent and taxing activity takes its toll rather quickly. I mean it's hockey--they don't get to be baseball players.

http://rangers.beloblog.com/archives/colon.JPG

[Rich-n-Texas]

I guess you've never watched Alexei Yashin play, no way someone can play like that and "love the game"
But that's just your opinion right? A very subjective statement which is debatable all by itself.


But I think that if there was the concerted effort (read; witch hunt) to find steroid use in hockey as there is for Baseball, I think you'd find considerable steroid use among those players who are in the league for their fighting prowess. I know that John Kordic was a steroid casualty long-before steroids were de rigeur. And another former "enforcer" Dave Morissette, admitted to using 'roids.
Well, that's two bad apples... a far cry from what's going on in baseball ala Barry Bonds. Here's my subjective input: I think it was the '06 season that Bonds sat out most of the season due to a leg? injury. It coincedently happened right about the time the steroid issue came to the forefront. I think the injury was a bunch of bullsh!t. His intention was to put off breaking the record until the noise died down and it wouldn't be so obvious. That's just plain f'in slimey IMO. I've never heard anything like that happen in hockey, and to me it's no different than fixing the games which once again makes the fan the victim.


But Bobsticks point is well taken, and performance enhancement can take other forms besides steroids, and amphetamines abuse i the NHLs dirty little secret. Now, having said all that, I probably fall into the Troy school of thought, with the obscene amounts of money at stake, you can't stop these kind of "abuses" so just let them do whatever they think it takes - within the rule of law, I suppose.
I still say no way, and I think the majority of sports fans feel the same way in that performance enhancing drugs have no place in spectator sports because they compromise the integrity of pure competition.

[Rich-n-Texas]

...Rich, you're down in Texas, you could run a little experiment for us. Hang out in the parking lot of The Clubhouse for twenty minutes and see what you get offered first.
The Clubhouse? For your sake I SURE hope you're not talking about "America's Team's" (not my words, trust me) clubhouse! Remember, the 'Boys have a hired gun now in Tank Johnson and he's packin' heat! I'd probably get offered a 9mm slug up my butt when he sees me in my Eagles sweatshirt! :eek:

Yeah, no thanks.

[bobsticks]

The Clubhouse? For your sake I SURE hope you're not talking about "America's Team's" (not my words, trust me) clubhouse! Remember, the 'Boys have a hired gun now in Tank Johnson and he's packin' heat! I'd probably get offered a 9mm slug up my butt when he sees me in my Eagles sweatshirt! :eek:

Yeah, no thanks.


Nah, the one on Maniana Dr.

[PeruvianSkies]

The Clubhouse? For your sake I SURE hope you're not talking about "America's Team's" (not my words, trust me) clubhouse! Remember, the 'Boys have a hired gun now in Tank Johnson and he's packin' heat! I'd probably get offered a 9mm slug up my butt when he sees me in my Eagles sweatshirt! :eek:

Yeah, no thanks.

Rich, you need to get a new avatar....upon first glance it looks too similar to a little known troll around here with a wrecked car for an avatar. Peace out bro!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Rich, you need to get a new avatar....upon first glance it looks too similar to a little known troll around here with a wrecked car for an avatar. Peace out bro!
Nooooooo!!! I think I just need to make it bigger. Maybe JM'll sign a waiver.
"Little known troll" Little known??? :lol: