New Int. Amp needed!

[JohnMichael]

I have enjoyed the Cambridge Audio A640 int. amp but it is now time for an upgrade. I still want to stay with an int. amp and have been thinking about the Creek Destiny. I like the idea of an int. amp with a passive preamp and power amp. I have also looked at the Portal int. amp which again is a passive preamp with power amp. Any other suggestions.

I plan on upgrading speakers to NHT's Classic Three. I listened to these at an audio store in Minneapolis and I was very impressed.

In a spasm of curiousity and boredom I ordered the Onkyo A 9555 because of all the buzz I had been reading about it. I have never used a class D amp before. I am going to compare it to the CA and whichever I like the most I will keep and sell the other. I like to keep a spare amp, cd player and speakers around so the winner will be a backup for the Creek or which ever one I choose. I had to send the old Rotel in for service one time and hated being without music. That will never happen again.

[Mr Peabody]

I haven't heard one but take a look at the PS Audio amps that use the Gain Cell Technology. It's basically a power amp that is able to function like a integrated. And, please do give us report on the 9555, this is one that really has me curious as well.

[JohnMichael]

I haven't heard one but take a look at the PS Audio amps that use the Gain Cell Technology. It's basically a power amp that is able to function like a integrated. And, please do give us report on the 9555, this is one that really has me curious as well.




Good suggestion on the PS Audio amp. I will check into it. The other day I bought a lottery ticket and won $500 so I thought what the hell try the 9555. I will let you know how it sounds. The reviews I have read are very positive.

[basite]

upgrading your system eh? :)

What's the actual budget? and do you mind buying used?

keep them spinning,
Bert.

[JohnMichael]

upgrading your system eh? :)

What's the actual budget? and do you mind buying used?

keep them spinning,
Bert.



My budget for an int. amp is about $2500. I would like to buy new. I want good sound and build quality. Something I would be happy with for many years. My stereo is in the living room so looks and size are important. Dependability is very important. I was happy with my Rotel for 11 years but I am tiring of the CA 640 already. I want something that will continue to impress for the long haul.

[basite]

if you could strech your buget a little (just a little), you could get a Mcintosh MA6300, enough power for the average speaker and extremely nice sound, and it will last for many many years. Even when you get tired of it (which I won't think to be the case) you could always sell it for a very good price.

other than that, maybe an Accuphase (maybe), or other, let me think about some other things :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Feanor]

JM, if I were looking for an integrate, (or power amp for that matter), I'd want 100+watts per channel for the sake of flexibility to drive less than efficient speakers.

Further in terms of flexibility I'd look for at least "preamp output" connectors, and preferably also "main input" too. The latter are somewhat rare for whatever reason, but very useful is you want to add, say, an equalizer or high-pass filter if you're using a sub.

The McIntosh 6300 suggestion from basite is nice, although I guess they're north of three grand. New Accuphase would be more than that, I dare say. A valid option would be the Cambridge 840A. The Creek Destiny you mentioned definitely is too; although its power is marginal based on my criterion, it does have the pre-out/main-in connections I mentioned.

[Mr Peabody]

Did you say what your budget was? I forgot to shamelessly mention I still have my Krell 500i I'd be willing to sell. If at all interested just email me.

[dean_martin]

since you mentioned the Portal, I thought I'd throw this suggestion out there. The Exposure 2010S is something I'd like to at least audition. From what I've read, it's "different" in a good way like the Portal.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=40466

[JohnMichael]

since you mentioned the Portal, I thought I'd throw this suggestion out there. The Exposure 2010S is something I'd like to at least audition. From what I've read, it's "different" in a good way like the Portal.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=40466



Dean I have thought about that int. amp since I read Art's review in Stereophile. It sounded like something I would like and less expensive then the others I was considering. Living where I do it is tough to hear a wide variety of components. I am usually met with "What so you mean you do not want a home theater".

[jrhymeammo]

http://www.audiophile.no/Vedlegg/Publisering/Bilder/pathos_classic_one.jpg

Need I say more...?

Class A pre stage with high bias current amplifer. One sweet sounding amp for sure. Maybe you should call Hanson Audio in Dayton and see if they still have one in stock. This 70 watter will be more than plenty for most setup including Maggies. I still wonder how Classic One would sound in my setup. I'm pretty sure it would be much sweeter.

Whatchu think?

[Feanor]

http://www.pathosacoustics.com/CO1.jpg

Need I say more...?

Class A pre stage with high bias current amplifer. One sweet sounding amp for sure. Maybe you should call Hanson Audio in Dayton and see if they still have one in stock. This 70 watter will be more than plenty for most setup including Maggies. I still wonder how Classic One would sound in my setup. I'm pretty sure it would be much sweeter.

Whatchu think?

Too bad they're so ugly. :15:

[jrhymeammo]

Too bad they're so ugly. :15:

Seriously?

[Feanor]

Seriously?

I hoped I'd seen the last of wood trim on clock radios, etc., come the '90s.

Then again I'm a guy who thinks all components ought to look something like this
...

[jrhymeammo]

http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=1414&cat=500&ppuser=199052 (http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=1414&cat=500&ppuser=199052:D)

TRIM!!!!!!!!:D (http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=1414&cat=500&ppuser=199052:D)


JM, if you agree with Feanor's taste then Unico will be out of question.
You know that I'm going to suggest tube gears just to tame my curiousity. Can it be hybrid? $2500 in a used market will get you an exceptional gear for sure.

JRA

[Bernd]

Hey, JM congrats on the Lottery win. I have never won a thing in my life.
Who said the Pathos is ugly?:nonod: Oh yeah Bill. You must be in the minority on that one.:cornut: The Classic one is one fine amp. I fully recommend it.
Also a Unison Research Unico or the brand new Secondo model.
And if an all tube amp is your choosen path, try the Puresound A30. A fantastic audio bargain, or a Manley Stingray.
Another company to look at would be Copland and Primare.
For pure musical bliss in class A solid state I think the Sugden A 21 is very hard to beat.
None of those amps are for head banging, but real musical enjoyment.
Well a nice list is developing here.

Peace

:16:

[bobsticks]

Hey JM, good to have you around these parts. Now that you've been overloaded with quality suggestions...let me add a couple more :D It goes without saying that I'm going to second Bert's suggestion of a McIntosh. I love mine and the things are built like tanks. Depending on the model you kind find a new or delicately used one for your price.

For some good, old American tube power with asthetics you might want to check out the Vave Amplification Company along with the others listed. VAC stuff may be more easily auditioned for you and they have a new fairly new integrated that has a street price, ahem, close to what you're looking at. (Don't believe the hype on the internet pricing)

http://www.vac-amps.com/

http://www.vac-amps.com/avatar.htm


Peace

[GMichael]

I would love to have one of the Classe' CAP-2100 integrated amps http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/detail-cap-2100.htm

They are out of my budget though. Maybe you could swing it.

[JohnMichael]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I have a lot of reading to do. I live in an area with great audio stores if you want home theater but two channel is largely ignored. I may not get a chance to audition before purchase and that is why your help is appreciated.


Did anyone notice the one poster with 3 green chicklets displayed?

[Feanor]

Hey JM, good to have you around these parts. Now that you've been overloaded with quality suggestions...let me add a couple more :D It goes without saying that I'm going to second Bert's suggestion of a McIntosh. I love mine and the things are built like tanks. Depending on the model you kind find a new or delicately used one for your price.

For some good, old American tube power with asthetics you might want to check out the Vave Amplification Company along with the others listed. VAC stuff may be more easily auditioned for you and they have a new fairly new integrated that has a street price, ahem, close to what you're looking at. (Don't believe the hype on the internet pricing)

http://www.vac-amps.com/

http://www.vac-amps.com/avatar.htm


Peace

Actually I kind of like the look of the VACs. One thing in particular is they don't have the cliched tubes-on-top-of-box look.

[Feanor]

http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=1414&cat=500&ppuser=199052 (http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=1414&cat=500&ppuser=199052:D)

TRIM!!!!!!!!:D (http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=1414&cat=500&ppuser=199052:D)
...

JRA

Just kidding about the AVA look, above. :) What I really do like is Accuphase
...

[JohnMichael]

In a spasm of curiousity and boredom I ordered the Onkyo A 9555 because of all the buzz I had been reading about it. I have never used a class D amp before. I am going to compare it to the CA and whichever I like the most I will keep and sell the other. I like to keep a spare amp, cd player and speakers around so the winner will be a backup for the Creek or which ever one I choose.



The Onkyo A 9555 will arrive tomorrow. Friday will be the first day I have time to do any serious listneing.

[bobsticks]

That's some timely delivery JM. Good for you and hopefully it will live up to your expectations and no further purchases will be necessary. I'm kinda excited to hear your impressions since we've all read so much about it.

[basite]

Just kidding about the AVA look, above. :) What I really do like is Accuphase
...


I actually like them too, both visual & soundwise...

and I've actually 'auditioned' that preamp, in combination with the DP-800 transport, DC-801 DAC, A-45 power amp driving a pair of B&W Diamond Reference speakers. Cables were all Kimber Select...

God I love my dealer :)
now if I just won the lottery... :ihih:


Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[JohnMichael]

That's some timely delivery JM. Good for you and hopefully it will live up to your expectations and no further purchases will be necessary. I'm kinda excited to hear your impressions since we've all read so much about it.




Yes it was delivered today or should I say hijacked. It seems whenever I order something it is always delivered on a day I work my part-time job. I live in a security building so they will not deliver it without someone being home. Now I put a sign on the outsied of the building saying please deliver to rental office. On my way to work I see the UPS driver turn down a street a few blocks from my place so I make a quick left. I drive past him in the lot at the CVS. I throw the car in reverse and back my way down the street and back into the parking lot right in front of the UPS truck. Of course I startled a couple of grey haired ladies with my driving. They were leaving as I sped by them in reverse. Sure enough it was my truck and I received my amp.

It is now home and in place. First impressions are it is big and heavy. I am use to Rotel and CA int. amps and the Onkyo is taller, deeper and might I say again heavy. The power cord is fairly thick and is not grounded. This pleased me since I found out how much noise was added when my int. amps were grounded. Feel of the controls is a step or two above CA. Finish of the unit is also nice.

Very early impressions of the sound is cleaner sound, sweeter violins and better pace and timing. The sound is tidy and more musical. More natural sounding with less coloration than the CA 640. Silky on violin. Wider soundstage. Of course time will tell if I find the amp as wonderful after more break in. If it gets better, wow.

[Feanor]

... First impressions are it is big and heavy. I am use to Rotel and CA int. amps and the Onkyo is taller, deeper and might I say again heavy. The power cord is fairly thick and is not grounded. This pleased me since I found out how much noise was added when my int. amps were grounded. Feel of the controls is a step or two above CA. Finish of the unit is also nice.

Very early impressions of the sound is cleaner sound, sweeter violins and better pace and timing. The sound is tidy and more musical. More natural sounding with less coloration than the CA 640. Silky on violin. Wider soundstage. Of course time will tell if I find the amp as wonderful after more break in. If it gets better, wow.

Long live digital :thumbsup: Give us further updates.

[topspeed]

Great suggestions so far. What kind of sound are you looking for? Sweeter? More musical? Neutral?

If you're looking for something that is slightly more romantic and sweet, consider auditioning a YBA 201. Beautiful build quality and aesthetically very pleasing. They do lean towards the warm side, so if you're looking for something a little more clinical, this probably won't do.

For pure transparency, it would be tough to beat the PSA GCC100. Like Mr. P noted, this is essentially a switching amp with a gain stage. No pots or attenuators to add distortion. If the holy grail is voltage with gain, this is as close as you can get. Be forewarned: if you like your amplifier to help "tune" the presentation (i.e. add color to suit your preference) this is not the amp for you. It's transparency is disarming for some and it will tell you in no uncertain terms what every, little thing sounds like. It isn't cold, it isn't warm, it's neither "musical" nor "colored." It is whatever the source is being fed to it.

If you're looking for something that is more musical and, for lack of a better term, "tubey" but without the hassle of tubes, consider PSA's Trio C100 which has all the benefits of the GCC but it tuned for a warmer, more tube-like sound. The fact that it cheaper than the GCC doesn't hurt either.

One last note, if you can find a Jeff Roland dealer, try the Concerto. In watch terms, these things are the Breguet of the amplifier world in terms of fit, finish, and attention to detail. They don't sound too shabby either! Unfortunately, I believe you'll need to either get one used or swing the deal of the year to fit your price range.

They sure are purty tho!

http://www.jeffrowland.com/img/ConcertoInt-front.jpg

[Mr Peabody]

Interesting the 9555 is noted as heavy, I thought the digital amps were supposed to be light due to no bulky power supply. Sounds like the reviews weren't exaggerating on the sound though.

[JohnMichael]

Great suggestions so far. What kind of sound are you looking for? Sweeter? More musical? Neutral?

If you're looking for something that is slightly more romantic and sweet, consider auditioning a YBA 201. Beautiful build quality and aesthetically very pleasing. They do lean towards the warm side, so if you're looking for something a little more clinical, this probably won't do.

For pure transparency, it would be tough to beat the PSA GCC100. Like Mr. P noted, this is essentially a switching amp with a gain stage. No pots or attenuators to add distortion. If the holy grail is voltage with gain, this is as close as you can get. Be forewarned: if you like your amplifier to help "tune" the presentation (i.e. add color to suit your preference) this is not the amp for you. It's transparency is disarming for some and it will tell you in no uncertain terms what every, little thing sounds like. It isn't cold, it isn't warm, it's neither "musical" nor "colored." It is whatever the source is being fed to it.

If you're looking for something that is more musical and, for lack of a better term, "tubey" but without the hassle of tubes, consider PSA's Trio C100 which has all the benefits of the GCC but it tuned for a warmer, more tube-like sound. The fact that it cheaper than the GCC doesn't hurt either.

One last note, if you can find a Jeff Roland dealer, try the Concerto. In watch terms, these things are the Breguet of the amplifier world in terms of fit, finish, and attention to detail. They don't sound too shabby either! Unfortunately, I believe you'll need to either get one used or swing the deal of the year to fit your price range.

They sure are purty tho!

http://www.jeffrowland.com/img/ConcertoInt-front.jpg




You always have my attention when you mention a fine swiss watch.

[bobsticks]

Congrats on foiling the attempted hijacking. My building because of location is similar though a close knit group of neighbors is usually pretty good about helping one another.
My Grandparents live close to your neck of the woods, and while neither gets out anymore I'm sure I would've been regaled with stories of a Jason Bourne like carchase.In the end my Grandfather would understand your fervor as he's the one resposible for my being in this mess (audiophilia).




Of course time will tell if I find the amp as wonderful after more break in. If it gets better, wow.


The Onkyo is a digital switching amp, right? I don't know if digital amps have a "burn in" or "break in" period but I guess we're about to find out, eh? Either way it sounds like you already find that big boy to your liking so good on you.

Peace

[Feanor]

Interesting the 9555 is noted as heavy, I thought the digital amps were supposed to be light due to no bulky power supply. Sounds like the reviews weren't exaggerating on the sound though.

Some "digital" amps have linear power supplies, and these are not much lighter than coventional s/s amps. A case in point was my former Bel Canto eVo2i

[JohnMichael]

The Onkyo is sounding so good I had to call off from work. Listening to the Guarneri String Quartet perform Mendelssohn's String Quartet no. 3 was an ear opener. When I have listened to this through the CA you heard the music but had to concentrate if I was interested in one of the musicians individual parts. Now when I was listening one of the players entered after the three started the piece. It was obvious where his place on stage would have been.

Greater clarity and defintion is also welcomed when listening to Emmylou, Linda and Dolly in Trio II. It is nice to hear them singing together without their voices blending and becoming indistinct. The edge is gone from Linda's voice that I thought might have been from the cd player but it was the amp. Voices are more natural and Norah Jones is sounding incredible.

I am pleased my cd player and speakers are sounding better with this amp. The metallic glare I would sometimes hear is gone. Imaging is good. I wonder if this is why CA brought out the V2 series to improve on the issues of my 640A. I enjoyed it but the colorations became more bothersome over time.

Back to listening.

[Mr Peabody]

Very good. How's the bass?

[bobsticks]

Ding, Ding, Ding--We have a winner!! Any gear that makes you call in sick must be quite formidable. We'll have to wait a bit for final judgements but a t this point all sounds well. Hopefully when the honeymoon is over everything will still be all roses.









The Onkyo is a digital switching amp, right? I don't know if digital amps have a "burn in" or "break in" period but I guess we're about to find out, eh? Either way it sounds like you already find that big boy to your liking so good on you.

I can't believe that you guys are letting that last sentence slide...I'm out here working hard for you perverts and nobody's even taking the assist. GM, for shame...you're slippin'

[JohnMichael]

Very good. How's the bass?


Let me comment on the midbass because with my speakers I can not answer for deep bass. Tight, defined and quick which I enjoy. Listening to the Onkyo after the CA I can not yet say if the Onkyo is controlling the woofer better or the CA was a little thick and muddy in the midbass.

[jrhymeammo]

So you saved yourself $2000 from buying expensive integrated amp. It doesnt get any better than that. Sounds like a clear winner to me.
If it sounds as good as you say, then no need for a different CDP.




I can't believe that you guys are letting that last sentence slide...I'm out here working hard for you perverts and nobody's even taking the assist. GM, for shame...you're slippin'

Bobsticks,

That is because we are all walking around with hair on our balls. We are all grown up now, you see. With that in mind, stop whining and go get yourself a AVID deck and Einsteine Phono stage. Now that's ballz!

JRA

[JohnMichael]

So you saved yourself $2000 from buying expensive integrated amp. It doesnt get any better than that. Sounds like a clear winner to me.
If it sounds as good as you say, then no need for a different CDP.

JRA



JRA I think it is too early to declare the Onkyo a clear winner. It is very nice but I will have to live with it for awhile. Since there was very little out of pocket cash spent on the amp I will be upgrading the cdp. My Marantz does sound better but the Onkyo lets me know a more refined cdp is needed.

[JohnMichael]

The Onkyo is a very good amp for $500 and beats the CA 640A. It is a good amp but do not use it with Alpha Core speaker cables. I started to notice a peak in the upper mids and lower treble. Bass sounded lean but tight. I was concerned about the peak in frequency and wondered what to do. Back into the cable closet I went and tried a pair of stranded cables, UltraLink MX2, and the peak was gone. Bass is now full but not muddy. I then began to notice the cd player sounding a little thin. Pulled the MicroPurls out and replaced with less expensive AR interconnects. I do not know how the cables were negatively affecting the sound but now this amp kicks ass. I thought maybe the peak was from the amp burning in but the change was so drastic with the change in cables that I knew it was the cables at blame.

JRA you are right I may have saved myself a lot of money. I am happier with the cdp now. Leaves extra money for speakers but the Ascends sound more wonderful with the amp. Maybe there is a Canon 40D in my future

[Mr Peabody]

That Onkyo must be one of the best bang for the buck going.

I know cables are system dependent but it's interesting that the cheaper ones worked better from CD to amp. I wonder if the cheaper cables mask a weakness or if it's just a capatibility issue. I know from playing with RCA's that a pair of silver cables didn't do much for my tubes but was one of the best cables I used for my Krell.

[JohnMichael]

That Onkyo must be one of the best bang for the buck going.

I know cables are system dependent but it's interesting that the cheaper ones worked better from CD to amp. I wonder if the cheaper cables mask a weakness or if it's just a capatibility issue. I know from playing with RCA's that a pair of silver cables didn't do much for my tubes but was one of the best cables I used for my Krell.


Alpha Core warns in their literature that some amps might become unstable with their speaker cables. They have low impedance and I read in reviews where the Onkyo did not like low impedance speakers so I figure the low impedance of the cables was the problem. It is singing sweetly now and was good with the Alpha's but so much better with less exotic cables.

I am amzed that a $500 amp, $348pr speakers and a $300 cd player can sound so good. I keep listening and thinking wow I never heard that before and music is more accesible.

[Mr Peabody]

A comparable Denon integrated in power and features runs about $1,200.00 it would be interesting to have a run off. Bettering the CA is saying something.

If you have the funds it would be worth seeing what better speakers and source would do.

[jrhymeammo]

One of the thing I regret about my system is that I acquire 3 gears all at once(within a couple of weeks), I never got to hear my system improve one gear at a time. Enjoy your journey!

JRA