newbie building a stereo system, needs help

[dj_daniel88]

hi everyone!

im new here, and i want a new stereo. unfortunatly i have got a panasonic hifi - an all in one cheap unit. this just wont do anymore, and i want to invest some money into a quality system. i really dont know where to start.

this system is going in a small room, so i was looking at getting some decent bookshelf speakers to mount on the wall. i dont know if these would be sufficient though. i like a lot of different types of music, from house to hard rock to jazz... so i figure the speakers have to be able to cope with all these different styles. i like to crank it up, so id like to hear the deep bass of the house music without distortion, and still hear the clarity. are bookshelf speakers designed for this?

i have been offered a pair of bose 301 series V speakesr for a very good price. anybody have opinions on these speakers?

does the size of the bookshelf speakers have limiations? i'd like to avoid getting any subwoofers. i'd much rather keep it simple, a traditional stereo, if that makes sense. just two speakers.

that brings me to the amp: being that i want just a basic stereo, no surround sound. but do they even make stereo amplifiers anymore? they all seem to be AV receivers. i was thinking perhaps i should get a second hand amp from the 90s, like a yamaha, marantz or pioneer or something. what are some thoughts on this? i figure i would be pretty safe in getting a quality brand amp, i couldnt imagine there being much difference in sound quality between different brand amps?

i will also want to use a turntable with this set up. as with the amplifiers of today, i can't seem to find many quality turntables (without spending a thousand dollars). so again, i was thinking perhaps i could find a used, but good quality and good brand turntable to use. most new turntables i have seen are cheap and tacky... i think a lot of the older turntables produce a much nicer, and warmer sound.

ok guys, long post i know. as you can tell by now i probably don't have a clue... lol, so i would really appreciate any input and help with deciding on the components for this system. i have a lot to learn!

thank you!

[basite]

Hi, welcome to AR :)

they definately still build stereo amps, and they also still build decent turntables that don't cost $1000 :)

bookshelves come in quite some sizes, but if you want serious bass without a sub, I'd look for either a pretty big bookshelve, or a floorstander :)

oh yeah, what exactly is your budget?

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[dj_daniel88]

hi bert, thanks for your response.

i'd be looking at about $2000 max. the size of the bookshelf isnt an issue, how big do they get?

do todays stereo amps still have phono inputs?

[Corto Maltese]

What kind of music are you listening?

Phono stage: I have Music Fidelity X-LPS V3. Small thing, big improvement. And you are going to save some money - used can be obtained for about $250.00 (brand new was $499.00); good amps with good phono stage will run you into the ground with 2k budget.

Bookshelves, no sub: good solution will cost you money. Go to http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/71173-montitor_audio_s1/
I heard those, very nice and "round" sound. For small room, plenty of bass. If you go brand new, bring your CD to play - and try up to three sets - you'll get fatigued fast. I personally do not like Bose systems. As overpriced as they are - they do not do anything acoustically good for me.

Save some money for good cables: power, interconects, speaker cables. That's finishing touch for any, entry level or not, system.

Enrty level TTs: Rega1 will get you far ahead, with nice entry level cart - Grado works just fine with those. Also, Thorens is still in the market - used and new. And they have some very nice entry level TTs. There is so many TTs, arms and carts and combinations that your head will spin. Do some research, and auditions - that is the only way to go.

Apms: to start, buy integrated. Cambridge Audio has that "british" sound what you (looks to me) are trying to go for. But, set aside few bucks for the power cable. Big improvement.


Well, $2k could get you very far, or you can blow it on mediocre (not HiFi) Bose system. Also, it would be good to know your location (country), because of locations of manufacturers - some of the really good ones are hiding in least expected places...
Good luck and keep us posted.

[basite]

I think you'd be better of with an entry pro-ject tt then you are with an entry rega tt...

for an integrated, you could always look at Denon or marantz, however, I think a rotel should fit in your buget pretty well...

for speakers, I'll follow corto maltese's suggestion, I would just like to say that the newer line (the RS line) would more fit your needs...
Look at dynaudio too, and at paradigm, and B&W, and KEF...

Oh yeah, do you already have a decent cd player? if not, check out the Marantz cd5001, comes at $250 or so and is probably the best cd player for it's price...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Mr Peabody]

If you don't mind used some of the vintage gear would be a good idea and a budget way to get the phono stage. You might also look at Adcom separates like a gfp-450 preamp and gfa 5400 power amp, the 5400 is 125x2 and the 5500 is 220x2. A used Krell 300i can be had for $1k or less which would be a monster in the power and bass, but it's a very controlled bass response, no boom.

New take a look at NAD, Rotel or Cambridge Audio. Some of the new amps come with phono stage as an optional upgrade but not many have them built in. I haven't heard it but Onkyo has a digital integrated out for around $799.00 that is supposed to be very good.

Dynaudio Audience 52's run around $900.00 a pair and I don't think you will find a bookshelf in that price to do better bass when driven with high quality electronics. Also, take a listen to the Paradigm.

The 52's with a Krell integrated would be a serious set up.

Don't hang speakers on the wall. Either get stands or florrstanders.

Rega, Music Hall or ProJect all offer entry tables with cart for around $300.00 but these arent' DJ type tables but they would sound better than most vintage mass market tables.

Careful shopping you can do a pretty nice system for $2k.

Actually, I have some extra gear around, if you are interested in pre-owned email me and I will put some systems and prices together. Just click on my name and once inside my profile click on "send an email".

[dj_daniel88]

thanks for your help guys...

wow there is so many brands and products on the market that i did not know about. i am located in australia, so it might be difficult to find some of these suggested products? there would be dealers somewhere...

what is the problem with mounting the speakers on the wall?

[Mr Peabody]

What brands would you have access to?

You want the speakers about ear level when you listen. Wall mounting could effect the sound by vibrations going into the wall or other nearby surfaces. You also want the speakers to be as stable or sturdy as possible. If the speaker has rear firing ports it's not good to have those real close to the wall for best sound. I'm not sure what type of mount you were wanting to use, a speaker that will rock like you describe will be a bit tough to mount sturdily.

I forgot to touch on the Bose 301. In my opinion those aren't going to do what you want.

[bobsticks]

Hey daniel,

Welcome to the forum. Australia, eh? That could be tough as there alot of situations in which you're gonna get eaten alive with shipping costs for foreign stuff. It might be best to look around for what's on-continent.

I gave a brief glance to ebay Australia just to get an idea of what y'all got going on over there. I suggest you do the same, not only to get an idea of what brands to look for but maybe you can find some shops in which you can hear the gear firsthand.

Looks like pretty standard stuff really although some of the prices look a little out of whack, no doubt due to the exchange rate. The Dynaudio/Krell combo that Mr. Peabody recommended would be outstanding but it looks like a pair of Danes alone would eat up your budget over there.

Hhhmm, maybe something like this...follow 'em and see where they are in a few days.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Paradigm-Phantom-V-3-Floor-speakers_W0QQitemZ250182145073QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1 4998QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

For speaks it looks like maybe you want to stick with Paradigm or KEF or maybe Jamo. It appears that, umless you can find a great deal, that Dynaudios or B&W's maybe out of reach.

For amps I think you're on the right track with Denon or Marantz, and Onkyo too, provided they are available. For a TT remember to look for some of the Rega introductory lines.

Good luck and keep in touch. I'm kinda interested to find out how this works out for you.


Peace

[Mr Peabody]

The Onkyo I was talking about is the A9555 and it has a phono stage. I think you'd like the Paradigms.

[dj_daniel88]

so i've been doing a bit of research, and i found this place:

http://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/

they seem to stock a lot of quality brands, and are close enough for me to go and take a look... they also sell monitor audio rs1's which corto maltese suggested.

the room these will be going in is about 9 foot by 9 foot, so its only small. thats why i was thinking i only need bookshelf speakers. i dont know how much bass you can get out of bookshelfs without a subwoofer though, and i don't know how loud these can go without distorting. this brings me to my next question... how powerful of an amp do you think i'll need?

what i'd like is reasonably small speakers (not floorstanding), with a big sound and nice bass... because of the size of the room i thought this might be feasable? ... but maybe not on my budget?

what do you guys think of this set up:
monitor audio rs1
marantz pm4001
marantz cd5001
rega p1

are cd players and amps really that much different? for example would it be worth my while getting a used amp with enough power and phono input to save some money? or get a used good quality, branded cd player?

[dj_daniel88]

hey guys what do u think of this amp, i just found it on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MARANTZ-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-PM-66SE-SPECIAL-EDITION_W0QQitemZ230185741035QQihZ013QQcategoryZ32 80QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[noddin0ff]

I just like the look of these two-channel receiver. Maybe worth a peek.
http://outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

[Mr Peabody]

At Carlton compare the Marantz to the Cambridge to see what you think. The Marantz system with the Monitor would be good. If you could go the expense, Creek would be the real deal there. I'm not familiar with the 66se but you could Google it for reviews.

[roger arenas]

hello! there guys, this is my first day here in audio forum just got connected and i've been reading your advices and it's kind of helpful for me to understand well, little by little because i've just got started to open my eyes with such huge lines of receivers, amplifiers and the like.. i thought the only thing was sony and jvc and those low end stuffs what apity on me.... i bought as a starter a yamaha rxv359 and accompanied with ns7390 floor standing spaekers and sorround sound which i cant remember,, i just want to know your professional sound judgement with regards to this set up which i also bought for roughly 700-800 dollars. i cant find this type anymore maybe its obsolete already, i cant tell whether the sound is good or not this is my first time buying thing lke this. i cant tell the diferrence because i havent heard those high quality receivers and high end speakers yet. pls advise.... thanks...


roger

[bobsticks]

Hey Roger,

Welcome to forums. My suggestion to you would be to take a moment and formulate some specific questions to be addressed in a seperate thread. There's factors to each system which are unique and what is best for daniel88 may not be right for you. Conversely, dj maybe facing challenges that you don't have to worry about. The more specific you can get about your concerns and system conditions the more helpful folks can be.

Cheers

[bobsticks]

so i've been doing a bit of research, and i found this place:

http://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/

they seem to stock a lot of quality brands, and are close enough for me to go and take a look... they also sell monitor audio rs1's which corto maltese suggested.

the room these will be going in is about 9 foot by 9 foot, so its only small. thats why i was thinking i only need bookshelf speakers. i dont know how much bass you can get out of bookshelfs without a subwoofer though, and i don't know how loud these can go without distorting. this brings me to my next question... how powerful of an amp do you think i'll need?

what i'd like is reasonably small speakers (not floorstanding), with a big sound and nice bass... because of the size of the room i thought this might be feasable? ... but maybe not on my budget?

what do you guys think of this set up:
monitor audio rs1
marantz pm4001
marantz cd5001
rega p1

are cd players and amps really that much different? for example would it be worth my while getting a used amp with enough power and phono input to save some money? or get a used good quality, branded cd player?

Daniel your proposed combination most likely has excellent synergy. In other words, I would guess that all these components would mesh well especially within the circumstances dictated by your room.

The Monitors get good bass (for a bookshelf) which will be a plus given your preference in music and the cd5001 has been described as giant killer. The rega p1, and moreso the p3, has gotten rave reviews.

Unfortunately it looks like your amp has been sold. If you could find another you'd be in fine form though it must be said that the Outlaw that noddy suggested is a magnificent piece of equipment both ergonomically and from a utilitarian standpoint.

[dj_daniel88]

yeah i decided not to bid on that amp, i wasn't sure if it was what i wanted. didnt want to rush into it.

i might go and try out the monitor audio speakers...

would there be much difference between the marantz cd player and, say for example a 5 year old sony cd player?

does anybody have opinions on the jbl control series?

[Mr Peabody]

Stick with a new CD player. Digital is NOT where you want to go vintage.

[dj_daniel88]

i went to test out the RS1 speakers today. they sounded good, but not enough bottom end grunt for my taste. i listened to them and dynaudio audience 42's, on a cambridge and a marantz amp... later i went to another store, which stocked a whole different range of brands again. there i listened to JBL E90 floor standing speakers... i have decided to go for the floorstanding speakers instead, they sounded much better.

now that i am not limiting myself to the bookshelf speakers, i have more to choose from. what do you guys think of the jbl e90? these were offered at a pretty good price... is there any others i should take a look at?

now for the amp, the guy there picked out a few different ones, but then reccomended a harman kardon pack, with a HD 970 cd player and HK 3380... opinions?

[Mr Peabody]

What did you think of the 42's? HK & JBL are pretty good in that mass market, entry level area. Cambridge and Dyn might have had a leaner sound but you should have heard much more detail. But it could also be more than you are ready for.

[bobsticks]

You're certainly changing directions there and that's fine. Actually it's very good in concept in that you've been listening firsthand and making some informed decisions. Good on you.

That said I have some concern over the jbl E90. Jbl is not the same company it was twenty or thirty years ago and it must be said that the E90 is a limited speaker. By that I mean that while it works okay for rock/pop/house (some of the music that I know you like) it has some sonic attributes that prevent it from presenting the full picture on most other types of music.
I'm not saying you have to buy some "audiophile approved" speaker just that you should understand that some of the other options mentioned will more accurately present a wide range of recordings. Perhaps look into a floorstanding model from Monitor Audio?

Harmon amps have a good reputation for robust sound and supplying power greater than their specifications might suggest. Their receivers are decent and several models of integrated amps are held in wide regard. Their cd/dvd players on the other hand do not have the greatest reputation for longevity. I myself have been bitten by the fickleness of Harmon quality control with an 8350 that manifested serious problems only weeks after purchase. Be aware of their spotty reliability.

I know sometimes the process seems long and you just want to buy something NOW and get on with it, but rest assured that you're doing the right thing by taking your time and auditioning. I've put together a few systems this way and while it did not provide immediate gratification my musical enjoyment is much greater because I waited until I found the right stuff for me. Stick with it.

[dj_daniel88]

i have been waiting for this auction to end on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MARANTZ-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-MODEL-PM7200-BLACK_W0QQitemZ270183492109QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3280 QQcmdZViewItem

i think it would be a good start to my set up...

meanwhile i've been doing some research on speakers. i was thinking perhaps KEF something from iq series? i wasnt so sure about the jbl's either , to be honest. they did not have the clarity that the dynaudio or monitor audios had, but they did have bass.

what brands should i look out for? anybody have any suggestions?

[Mr Peabody]

Have you had a chance to listen to any Paradigm yet?

[basite]

i have been waiting for this auction to end on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MARANTZ-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-MODEL-PM7200-BLACK_W0QQitemZ270183492109QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3280 QQcmdZViewItem

i think it would be a good start to my set up...

meanwhile i've been doing some research on speakers. i was thinking perhaps KEF something from iq series? i wasnt so sure about the jbl's either , to be honest. they did not have the clarity that the dynaudio or monitor audios had, but they did have bass.

what brands should i look out for? anybody have any suggestions?


you should really hear the RS6's or RS8's by monitor audio, they have the sound clarity of the RS1, but they have more bass...

also, check out the bigger dynaudios, I'd really choose the monitor audios and the dynaudios over any JBL... (well, most jbl's :) )

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[traugh]

What kind of music are you listening?

Save some money for good cables: power, interconects, speaker cables. That's finishing touch for any, entry level or not, system.

.

I know some will fire back at this but for saving money you can probably save a lot by using lamp cord for speaker wire. It is cheap and most people cannot HEAR the difference in a modestly priced stereo setup. Check out

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

for a good explanation of what you need.

[mikemorrow]

I know some will fire back at this but for saving money you can probably save a lot by using lamp cord for speaker wire. It is cheap and most people cannot HEAR the difference in a modestly priced stereo setup. Check out

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

for a good explanation of what you need.

I will agree with you Traugh. There is no reason to spend money on the cables. A 9x9 room will not require heavy cables. Nor will this system upgrade with the use of them.

[Mr Peabody]

Before this thread erupts into another cheap vs quality cable debate I recommend that he at least at some point tries better cables. Cables whether they help or not can be system dependent. Some designs work better with certain gear and set ups. Most importantly the gear has to be of a quality to reflect any difference which usually isn't hard to find. Cables most certainly can help to improve a systems presentation. If you haven't heard it you either didn't try the right cables or have tried them on inferior gear. If one tries the cables and they work then it's a reasonable price to pay for the upgrade. If there's no improvement noticed or not enough to justify the cost then return the cables and nothing lost. Just don't dismiss the possibility over that one experience.