Please Help With Denon

[dada]

I have a denon avr 1907,denon dvd 1930ci,acurus 200x3, svs pb12 plus, jbl L7 l+r, and a pinnacle bd 300 center. The 1907 didnt seem to have enough power,i was pushing it really hard to get the performance i wanted,so i bought the acurus 200x3 thinking my volume nob at -20 wouled surfice. This set up is strictly HT,and i only watch dvds.Im runing tara labs rcas out of the dvd player into the avr,hdmi into the tv, and the pre outs to the sub and acurus.My problem is im new to ht,i dont understand witch settings on the avr i shouled be using,EX dts neo, neutral surround,ect.And why it seems i have no more power sience adding the powerfl acuus amp.Is my system hooked up carrectly? shouled i be using the pre outs on my dvd { 5.1outs l r c sw }? im running everything large,+7 on L+R,+10 on the c, + 3 on the sw.Any suggestions wouled be greatly appreciated, thank you dada.:nonod:

[musicman1999]

First thing that catches my eye is you say the dvd player is hooked up with rcas, do you mean you are using l/r outputs or are you using the coax digital output?
Also how large is your room, do you have a sound meter and just how loud do you want to go?

bill

[bfalls]

There's one comment I don't understand about your post. If your set-up "is strictly HT" you'll need the digital output (coax or optical) connected between the DVD and receiver. All Dolby Digital and DTS formats require a digital signal. You will still get "surround" with the analog outputs, but it will be a "derived" or matrixed surround, such as Dolby Pro Logic, Dolby Pro Logic II, and I believe the Neo is derived as well. Do not use the 5.1 outputs from the DVD player, they're for SACD playback.

You don't mention surround rear speakers in your HT, but I assume you have them. It sounds like you have the Accurus connected correctly via the pre-outs from the receiver (I also assume your using the 5.1 L/R pre-outs). Since you're complaining about power, there's one thing that comes to mind. Most relate power to how much bass they hear. Check your L/R speaker cabling. If you have your mains out-of-phase (the + and - switched on one speaker) this will cause low bass output since the R and L signals attempt cancel each other out. I would also try to get my level setting closer to '0db'. Setting of 0db for mains, +3 for center and -4 SW will put you closer to default settings. My gut feeling is if you get connected digitally between the DVD and receiver you'll get the results you require. BTW HDMI directly from DVD to display is the best way to go unless your receiver had HDMI switching and you have more than one HDMI source.

[dada]

first of all thanks for your help guys.My set up is only L,R,C,and sub.I am using the audio outs L,R, my room is 20x16,so run optical or coax,which is better? which surround modes work best with my set up? i dont want to miss any sound that is being put out from the rear speakers that are not there. Thanks gain mario.

[dada]

first of all thanks for your help guys.My set up is only L,R,C,and sub.I am using the audio outs L,R, my room is 20x16,so run optical or coax,which is better? which surround modes work best with my set up? i dont want to miss any sound that is being put out from the rear speakers that are not there. Thanks gain mario.

[musicman1999]

To get all the rear channel information you will need rear speakers, and for movies you should use a digital connection.

bill

[canuckle]

To get all the rear channel information you will need rear speakers
Not true, the Denon will re-route the surround information to the front L/R speakers in a setup without surrounds.

[codecougar]

first of all thanks for your help guys.My set up is only L,R,C,and sub.I am using the audio outs L,R, my room is 20x16,so run optical or coax,which is better? which surround modes work best with my set up? i dont want to miss any sound that is being put out from the rear speakers that are not there. Thanks gain mario.

"optical or coax,which is better?"

I run optical from my Blu-ray player and am very happy with the results. I read that coax is better for higher volumes though. However, I crank mine and I am very happy with the sound. I would go with optical, but I don't think it would be a significant difference either way. Grab a cheap optical cable from monoprice.com or just a regular coax you probably have lying around and see if it makes a difference.

I would start from scratch and disconnect the Acurus A200X3. Disconnect your rcas. Run an optical or coax cable from your DVD player to your receiver. Try different movie/ sound settings on your receiver.

I have a crappy receiver and can almost blow my windows out. There is no reason you should not be getting a powerful sound out of your receiver by itself.

[dada]

Thanks for all your help guys. dada

[PeruvianSkies]

Not true, the Denon will re-route the surround information to the front L/R speakers in a setup without surrounds.

Ummm, yeah, but it's fold-down sound, which isn't the same thing and it's certainly not discrete, like a true 5.1 setup would be with actually surround speakers, this is also true running a setup in stereo, where the center channel is then split into the left and right, but it's a huge difference when you actually have a dedicated center channel to handle that information instead.

[musicman1999]

"optical or coax,which is better?"

I run optical from my Blu-ray player and am very happy with the results. I read that coax is better for higher volumes though. However, I crank mine and I am very happy with the sound. I would go with optical, but I don't think it would be a significant difference either way. Grab a cheap optical cable from monoprice.com or just a regular coax you probably have lying around and see if it makes a difference.

I would start from scratch and disconnect the Acurus A200X3. Disconnect your rcas. Run an optical or coax cable from your DVD player to your receiver. Try different movie/ sound settings on your receiver.

I have a crappy receiver and can almost blow my windows out. There is no reason you should not be getting a powerful sound out of your receiver by itself.

I prefer coax because it has better connections and seems to be better built.Sound wise there seems to be little difference, i think coax sounds a little better but it is very close.
Btw using optical with your Bluray player does not allow you access to the new sound formats, all you are getting is DD or DTS, if your player has 5.1 analog inputs you should use those.Without the new formats the experience is only half there, there is a big difference.

bill

[codecougar]

I prefer coax because it has better connections and seems to be better built.Sound wise there seems to be little difference, i think coax sounds a little better but it is very close.
Btw using optical with your Bluray player does not allow you access to the new sound formats, all you are getting is DD or DTS, if your player has 5.1 analog inputs you should use those.Without the new formats the experience is only half there, there is a big difference.

bill

I have been told this several times, but I am not sure what to do. Maybe you can tell me.

I currently have a center, 2 fronts, 2 surrounds, and a SW.

I can see on my Blu-ray player that I have rca outs listed under the 5.1 section, but I do not have these inputs on my receiver. So maybe my receiver is not capable of doing the new sound formats? Here is what I have for a receiver:

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-STR-DG510-5-1-Channel-Receiver-STR-DG510/sem/rpsm/oid/176878/catOid/-12949/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

[jvc]

If you can't afford new rear speakers, to match your others, you can usually find a pair of speakers at a pawn shop for $25 - $30. Some cheap rear speakers will be better than no rear speakers. They will make a huge difference, in giving you real surround sound. Also, since you're using a sub, I'd set the speakers to "small", instead of large.

As was stated, you need to use a digital coax or optical cable, from the dvd player, to the receiver. You can use a cable from Wal Mart, instead of expensive cables. The cheap cables work very well too. Don't forget to set the audio output, in dvd player's setup menus, to "Bitstream", not PCM.
Good luck!

[musicman1999]

Unfortunately without the 5.1 inputs you are unable to hear the new audio formats.

bill

[jvc]

I have been told this several times, but I am not sure what to do. Maybe you can tell me.

I currently have a center, 2 fronts, 2 surrounds, and a SW.

I can see on my Blu-ray player that I have rca outs listed under the 5.1 section, but I do not have these inputs on my receiver. So maybe my receiver is not capable of doing the new sound formats? Here is what I have for a receiver:

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-STR-DG510-5-1-Channel-Receiver-STR-DG510/sem/rpsm/oid/176878/catOid/-12949/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do


Since your receiver's HDMI inputs are pass through only, and since your receiver doesn't have the 5.1/7/1 analog inputs (multi-channel inputs), you cannot listen to the new HD audio soundtracks of Blu ray movies. You would need a receiver like the Onkyo TX-SR605, or similar. You can see the Onkyo here: http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR605&class=Receiver&p=i

[codecougar]

Since your receiver's HDMI inputs are pass through only, and since your receiver doesn't have the 5.1/7/1 analog inputs (multi-channel inputs), you cannot listen to the new HD audio soundtracks of Blu ray movies. You would need a receiver like the Onkyo TX-SR605, or similar. You can see the Onkyo here: http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR605&class=Receiver&p=i

Yeah, I'm going to grab either a new Onkyo or Yamaha when I have some more cash. I'll make sure to hook up the 5.1 set up.

[jvc]

Yeah, I'm going to grab either a new Onkyo or Yamaha when I have some more cash. I'll make sure to hook up the 5.1 set up.

If you get the Onkyo 605, or higher, all you'll need to use is the HDMI hookup. The Onkyo processes the new HD audio formats over HDMI, so you won't need to hookup the 5.1/7.1 analog cables, unless you hookup a sacd or dvd-a player. :)
Good luck!

[musicman1999]

Well it depends on your television, if it has no HDMI input i would skip HDMI all together.All you really need is 5.1 inputs, you do not need to decode in receiver, many players do not output a bit stream anyway.I don't use HDMI, my bluray player outputs 5.1 LPCM over its analog outputs and sounds fantastic.

bill

[canuckle]

Ummm, yeah, but it's fold-down sound, which isn't the same thing and it's certainly not discrete, like a true 5.1 setup would be with actually surround speakers, this is also true running a setup in stereo, where the center channel is then split into the left and right, but it's a huge difference when you actually have a dedicated center channel to handle that information instead.
"fold-down sound" = you making up words

"not discrete" = you using actual words wrong

Of course it's discrete, that's a function of the encoding, not the speaker setup. Obviously it's not going to come from the surrounds as there are none. The suggestion was that the surround channels would be lost; they won't be. The entire, discrete signal will simply be played from somewhere else and nothing will be lost.

[musicman1999]

If a sound is meant to come from the rear of the room, why would you want it to come from the front?Example, if a car goes by in a film and the sound starts in left front and is supposed to go to left rear it would not sound good if it all came from left front.A better solution would be to run in stereo only, it would sound better.

bill

[bfalls]

"fold-down sound" = you making up words

"not discrete" = you using actual words wrong

Of course it's discrete, that's a function of the encoding, not the speaker setup. Obviously it's not going to come from the surrounds as there are none. The suggestion was that the surround channels would be lost; they won't be. The entire, discrete signal will simply be played from somewhere else and nothing will be lost.


How can you say it's discrete when your saying the rear information is mixed to the front speakers. That's like saying Dolby Pro Logic is discrete, when center and surrounds are derived from a two-channel input. Most DVDs have the option for 5/7.1 and stereo, two-channel which may be "fold-down.

You may get the rears mixed with the mains, but not the way you think. Every channel has some level of all other channels in it's mix. That's how motion is presented, as with a car driving behind you in the rear channels. If going from left to right, the level in the left speaker is louder, then gradually get lower in the left as it gets louder in the right. There will also be lower levels of the car's sound in all front speakers, which helps determine how far back the car is in your environment. How can mixing the rear channels to the front provide any front to rear depth. Some "synthesized" formats do this, but are intended to by design and usually employ specific speaker systems, or are mearly derivitiives of the original intention of the engineer. Spend a few bucks and get some rear/side surounds. The difference will be obvious.