Take that BLU-Ray!!!!! A Sub $200 HD-DVD Player

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Well it looks like the day of the sub $200 high definition player have arrived. Both Walmart and Circuit City will be offering the Toshiba HDA2 player for under $200.

Here is the link to the article at Daily Tech.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9426

Here is a link to the current offer at Circuit City.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Toshiba-HD-DVD-Player-HDA2/sem/rpsm/oid/169466/catOid/-16221/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

As you can see this news is indeed true.

Will this be a major blow to BLU-RAY? Only time will tell.

For those of you that are new to this tech check out the A2 review on the Audioreview.com homepage!!!!!

[musicman1999]

A major blow? Hardly, this player is discontinued.Circuit City is just trying to get rid of old stock that they apparently could not sell.This player does not even do 1080p.

bill

[Groundbeef]

A major blow? Hardly, this player is discontinued.Circuit City is just trying to get rid of old stock that they apparently could not sell.This player does not even do 1080p.

bill

Oh Snaps!! And the vast majority of US consumers don't own a TV that outputs 1080p! So perhaps it will sell fine to J6P. Either way, it DOES help put a price point into the mind of consumers. Makes one think twice about paying upwards of $400-500 for Blu, versus $199 for HD-DVD. Moreover, I'm pretty sure that these players upconvert regular DVD, so it's a win for ANY consumer thinking of going "up-convert". Now as a bonus they get HD-DVD.

[emorphien]

$200, as many have said, is when something reaches the impulse buy range for many people. It's just gotten low enough now that those on the fence may be convinced to buy. It may also put some over the edge and quit hesitating on buying an HDTV as well.

As a grad student, it has neither effect on me, I don't have $200 to spend on it anyway :lol:

[Feanor]

Well it looks like the day of the sub $200 high definition player have arrived. Both Walmart and Circuit City will be offering the Toshiba HDA2 player for under $200.

... !!!!!

Let me know if you see any HDTVs, say 40" or larger for $200 -- or let's say <$700. I won't be holding my breath.

[Groundbeef]

Let me know if you see any HDTVs, say 40" or larger for $200 -- or let's say <$700. I won't be holding my breath.

And thats relevent how to the OP? I don't think that there is a direct correlation between TV price, and the price people are willing to pay for HD content. I spent plenty on my 50" pioneer plasma, but it still chaps my ass I have to pay DirecTV $9.99/month for HD programming.

Just because a TV is expensive doesn't mean consumers want to pay out the nose for HD-DVD/BluRay.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Let me know if you see any HDTVs, say 40" or larger for $200 -- or let's say <$700. I won't be holding my breath.

I guarantee that this holiday season you will be able to get a HD-DVD player and at least a 720p TV for under a grand together. 1080i 52" RPTVs have already been on sale as low as $700 and are awesome for HDTV content displayed in 1080i. Don't forget that 1080i on a CRT RPTV looks great with a 1080p source like HD-DVD. (With the best black level detail you can get)

Oh and 42" 720p plasmas are now dropping into the sub $1000 range. Although overall resolution is compromised in that way they are better overall with broadcast HDTV than RPTV because of the inherent flicker in some 1080i broadcasts when displayed in 1080i.

Anyhow, price is becoming much less of a concern here. HD is here.

[emorphien]

If I can get a 37-42" first tier 720P LCD in the $700-800 range this winter (December - January timeframe) I may very well find some way to do it. It may involve me eating ramen for a few weeks :lol:

[bobsticks]

Hey guys and gals, children of all ages...looks possibly like you won't have to wait until Christmas for spectacular, mindblowing, industry-changing, succulant HD deals. Read this thread...http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36762

[Feanor]

And thats relevent how to the OP? I don't think that there is a direct correlation between TV price, and the price people are willing to pay for HD content. I spent plenty on my 50" pioneer plasma, but it still chaps my ass I have to pay DirecTV $9.99/month for HD programming.

Just because a TV is expensive doesn't mean consumers want to pay out the nose for HD-DVD/BluRay.

It's relevant in that I am one of those people who won't be buying an HD player or, obviously, subscribing to HD programming until they get an HDTV ... hmmm, I would say this is close to 100% of people.

My point is, luck saps who've got HDTV right now: you get to anquish over the price of HD players and programming -- not my problem, though.

[Feanor]

If I can get a 37-42" first tier 720P LCD in the $700-800 range this winter (December - January timeframe) I may very well find some way to do it. It may involve me eating ramen for a few weeks :lol:

In addition, in my case, it would take one or maybe both of my "classic" 27" CRTs to die, die, die.

I that case I think I'd prefer beans and cabbage.

[emorphien]

I'll just sell my 27" CRT to a friend. My original intention was to keep it the next few years until I was done with my PhD but I'm not sure I can last that long. So unless it dies and I have a good excuse to buy a TV, I may just end up replacing it with no good reason.

[Groundbeef]

It's relevant in that I am one of those people who won't be buying an HD player or, obviously, subscribing to HD programming until they get an HDTV ... hmmm, I would say this is close to 100% of people.

My point is, luck saps who've got HDTV right now: you get to anquish over the price of HD players and programming -- not my problem, though.

Well, in this case HDTV really isn't a requirement for a new DVD player. Lots of people don't have HDTV, but spend the money for a "upconvert" DVD player. Now, you get the upconvert, AND a HD-DVD system. So in the next year or so, you can fully utilize the HD-DVD portion when you get a HDTV.

[musicman1999]

My point was that the unit in question has been discontinued and is available in very limited numbers and the one that replace it is more money.A couple of hundred players is very small in the big picture.

bill

[pixelthis]

My point was that the unit in question has been discontinued and is available in very limited numbers and the one that replace it is more money.A couple of hundred players is very small in the big picture.

bill
I think thats the newer model that wallfart is selling, each store is only getting a few hundred units.
In any event its sad to see HDDVD proponets talking about this as if its good news.
Your product is being sold at fire sale prices, doesn't that worry you at least a little bit?
AND I read on one of those links about the much higher return rate of plasma,
which is no surprize, a glass envelope full of gas? PLEASE.
The best "picture q " element IS HAVING A PICTURE:1:

[drseid]

My point was that the unit in question has been discontinued and is available in very limited numbers and the one that replace it is more money.A couple of hundred players is very small in the big picture.

bill

I would not underestimate the significance of this development. The numbers of HD A2s at Walmart that I heard for sale were in excess of 60,000 units (across all stores). Hardly "a couple hundred players." This is very significant for the HD DVD camp. It also may force the soon to be released HD DVD "bargain value" Venturer unit to sell for much less than that company planned to sell the unit for (also good for consumers and the HD DVD camp alike). This is coming at a crucial junction for both formats with the upcoming holiday shopping season.

---Dave

[L.J.]

Word is that these units are seling at Costco as well.

AAA members can find a 10% off coupon that can be used at CC. I also read that there was a $40 off coupon that could be used (floating around in the Sunday paper) buy YMMV with that one.

If I could get one of these for $160, I would. I have a 1080i display up front and a 720p in the bedroom. I'm holding out though because I think some bigger sells will be going on. Maybe I could get my hands on a XA2 for dirt cheap.

[GMichael]

Word is that these units are seling at Costco as well.

AAA members can find a 10% off coupon that can be used at CC. I also read that there was a $40 off coupon that could be used (floating around in the Sunday paper) buy YMMV with that one.

If I could get one of these for $160, I would. I have a 1080i display up front and a 720p in the bedroom. I'm holding out though because I think some bigger sells will be going on. Maybe I could get my hands on a XA2 for dirt cheap.

I saw that thread a few days ago and signed up for the "black friday" alerts.

Today's says:
"Today we received a copy of the Sears Black Friday ad. The ad contains
some really great deals on electronics and Craftsman tools. Some of the deals are:

- Sharp Aquos 46 inch LCD HDTV for $999
- Nextar 1GB MP3 Player for $17.99
- Toshiba HD-DVD Player for just $169.99."

www.black-friday.net

[L.J.]

Hmmm maybe somebody should start a Black Friday thread which sorts out all the upcoming HD sales, hardware and software. I vote for GM :)

[drseid]

Hmmm maybe somebody should start a Black Friday thread which sorts out all the upcoming HD sales, hardware and software. I vote for GM :)

+1

Seriously though, putting the HD A2 deal aside, that deal on the Sharp 46 inch looks mighty fine. I wonder if that is a 1080p model? If so, I may have to camp out in front of Sears... ;-)

---Dave

[GMichael]

Hmmm maybe somebody should start a Black Friday thread which sorts out all the upcoming HD sales, hardware and software. I vote for GM :)

All you have to do is go to that link and sign up.

I'll be sure to post any deals on the PS3 I'm looking for.:ihih:

I'f everyone likes, I'll post my alerts here each morning.

[GMichael]

+1

Seriously though, putting the HD A2 deal aside, that deal on the Sharp 46 inch looks mighty fine. I wonder if that is a 1080p model? If so, I may have to camp out in front of Sears... ;-)

---Dave

Sorry,

Sharp 46 in. LCD HDTV, AQUOS

AQUOS' true 16:9 aspect ratio (1366 x 768 pixels) and ASV/Black TFT LCD Panel

[drseid]

Sorry,

Sharp 46 in. LCD HDTV, AQUOS

AQUOS' true 16:9 aspect ratio (1366 x 768 pixels) and ASV/Black TFT LCD Panel

Rats, I knew that was too good to be true. Still, at under $1000 it is a very good deal.

---Dave

[GMichael]

Here are the rest of the TV's on sale at Sears for BF.

Television
Barbie Bloom Tube 13" TV With Digital Tuner $119.99
LG 37" LCD HDTV $1099.99
LG 42" Plasma HDTV $1099.99
Panasonic 26-inch TC-26LX70 LCD HDTV $749.99
Panasonic 56" LCD TV $1199.99
Proscan 42-inch 42LA45H 1080p LCD HDTV $899.99
Samsung 19-inch LCD HDTV $479.99
Samsung 40" LCD HDTV $1499.99
Samsung 46-inch LN-T4665F 1080p LCD HDTV $2499.99
Samsung 50" Plasma HDTV $1399.9
Sharp 19" LCD TV With DVD Player $299.99
Sharp Aquos 46" LCD HDTV $999.99
Sony 40" W-Series 1080p LCD HDTV With 3 HDMI Inputs $1999.99
Sony 46-inch Bravia LCD HDTV $1999.99
Sony 50-inch Bravia 3 LCD 1080p Projection HDTV $1799.99
Sony Bravia 32" LCD HDTV $1099.99
Sylvania 15" LCD TV With Digital Tuner $199.99
Sylvania 42" Full 1080p LCD HDTV $899.99
Toshiba 42" 1080p LCD HDTV $1599.99
Venturer 19" LCD TV $199.99
Vizio 32" LCD HDTV $598.00

[bobsticks]

Geez guys, I am feelin' the love. What am I chopped liver? If you look a scant dozen or so posts up you'll see that I provided a link to two links on the subject...

It's a hard room I say.

[L.J.]

Geez guys, I am feelin' the love. What am I chopped liver? If you look a scant dozen or so posts up you'll see that I provided a link to two links on the subject...

It's a hard room I say.

Hey Bobsticks, I tried to hit you up with a greenie for that post, but I need to spread my love around a bit more.

[GMichael]

Geez guys, I am feelin' the love. What am I chopped liver? If you look a scant dozen or so posts up you'll see that I provided a link to two links on the subject...

It's a hard room I say.

Your links were fine (if not great).
They asked, I posted.

Do you need more luv?:17:

[GMichael]

Hey Bobsticks, I tried to hit you up with a greenie for that post, but I need to spread my love around a bit more.

Gotcha both covered.

[bobsticks]

Hey Bobsticks, I tried to hit you up with a greenie for that post, but I need to spread my love around a bit more.

That's a little bit of TMI my friend, and don't rush on my account :ihih:

[Groundbeef]

Here are the rest of the TV's on sale at Sears for BF.

Television
Barbie Bloom Tube 13" TV With Digital Tuner $119.99


Looks like I'll be getting my wife that special present after all. And to think I was going to get her a washer. Plus being digital, its going to work after 2009. SWEET

[GMichael]

Looks like I'll be getting my wife that special present after all. And to think I was going to get her a washer. Plus being digital, its going to work after 2009. SWEET

13"?

You're better off going this route. http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=21022&highlight=washer

[Groundbeef]

13"?

You're better off going this route. http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=21022&highlight=washer

Yeah, your right. 13" is probably too large to lug around the house when she does her housework. Plus if she drops it on her bare feet, it might break a toe.

I just thought the Barbie aspect was a real kicker.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

A $200 player with no full studio support is not the same as a $200 DVD player with full studio support.

This whole notion about impulse buying based on the $200 figure is gleaned from the DVD format. When the DVD format players reached $200, sales took off. However DVD had full studio support by the time players reached that price point. HD DVD does not have full studio support, and likely will never.

This $200 price point was advanced by Ken Graffaeo of Universal studios. He was using the DVD format as a reference point. HD DVD and Bluray are not DVD. When DVD players hit the $200 point, there was no format war. There were no "sides" to appeal to. There was no split studio support, and there was nobody telling anyone that if you buy this player you will not get Sony, Disney, Fox, Lionsgate or MGM movies. HD DVD has alway been a "cheaper" alternative to bluray. That has not really helped alot as player sales are pretty much neck and neck when it comes to standalones only.

While this is a discount to move stock, it sure does take the bite out of the $199 ventura player soon to be released. This is a point I made in another thread. Toshiba is pretty much killing the notion that any other manufacturer can make money supporting HD DVD. They have simply covered every price point that makes a difference to their supporters. With Toshiba's continued push downward, is there any way a company like Onkyo can sell a $899 player? I do not think so. The A2 are selling very well, the XA-2 not nearly as well, even at a discounted $539 dollars on Amazon. How does one think a player that costs $899 (onkyo is not a discounted brand) in a market that begs for players that are $500 and less?

Lastly there is a hidden charge for this player if you do not have a HDMI capable receiver. This player only supports the advance audio codecs through its HDMI outputs. There are no analog 5.1 on this player like there were on the A1. If you do not have a HDMI capable player, then you are stuck with legacy DD and Dts, because that is all it will support through its toslink connection. So its not just the new 720p or 1080i television you need, but that HDMI capable receiver as well, or you get no audio benefit over regular DVD. At least the cheapest bluray player has 5.1 analog outputs to hookup to non HDMI receivers for access to DTHD and uncompressed PCM soundtracks.

[bobsticks]

A $200 player with no full studio support is not the same as a $200 DVD player with full studio support.

This whole notion about impulse buying based on the $200 figure is gleaned from the DVD format. When the DVD format players reached $200, sales took off. However DVD had full studio support by the time players reached that price point. HD DVD does not have full studio support, and likely will never.

This $200 price point was advanced by Ken Graffaeo of Universal studios. He was using the DVD format as a reference point. HD DVD and Bluray are not DVD. When DVD players hit the $200 point, there was no format war. There were no "sides" to appeal to. There was no split studio support, and there was nobody telling anyone that if you buy this player you will not get Sony, Disney, Fox, Lionsgate or MGM movies. HD DVD has alway been a "cheaper" alternative to bluray. That has not really helped alot as player sales are pretty much neck and neck when it comes to standalones only.

Hey hey Sir T.,

This begs the questions though, "does Joe Six-Pack recognize that there is little studio support?". I mean I'm sure he/she/it recognizes that all the faves aren't out on HD DVD but are the specifics of this understood is the issue. Maybe, maybe not. It will be interesting to see.

Isn't Toshiba's damn-the-torpedoes approach predicated on the notion of property rights and the copyright of the phrase "DVD"? I thought I remembered reading that somewhere.

Onkyo's only hope is that those that subscribe to brand loyalty will continue to do so. This may be optimistic at best, considering all the glowing reports on the net and on the street that the PS3 is getting.

Do the majority of buyers concern themselves with audio codecs or are they more impacted by the perceived value of a better picture? Does JSP even know what an audio codec is?

Hhhmmmnnn....

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Hey hey Sir T.,

This begs the questions though, "does Joe Six-Pack recognize that there is little studio support?". I mean I'm sure he/she/it recognizes that all the faves aren't out on HD DVD but are the specifics of this understood is the issue. Maybe, maybe not. It will be interesting to see.

Bob, all one has to do is walk over to the software rack and you can plainly see that you are getting very different movies on one player than on the other. That is the only open secret that even joe6pack can see.


Isn't Toshiba's damn-the-torpedoes approach predicated on the notion of property rights and the copyright of the phrase "DVD"? I thought I remembered reading that somewhere.

Actually Toshiba approach is to maintain the current royalties situration into the next generation format that they had with DVD. Toshiba was the big winner of DVD patent royalties, and if Bluray wins, they stand to lose a very valuable income stream coming to their coffers. As far as the phrase DVD, since they got approval from the DVD forum for HD DVD, they already have the rights to the DVD moniker. Since their standard was adopted as DVD in the first place, their rights to the DVD moniker have never been questioned. What toshiba is attempting to do is change the model of adoption for new video technologies. Instead of the traditional way of having higher player prices so manufacturers can recoup R&D investments, they have chosen to forgo this process and push prices to the bottom to get more players in the market. The problem with this approach is other manufacturers cannot make any money with prices so cheap so early.


Onkyo's only hope is that those that subscribe to brand loyalty will continue to do so. This may be optimistic at best, considering all the glowing reports on the net and on the street that the PS3 is getting.

The problem with Onkyo entering the market under this format is the biggest selling point is cheap price for the technology. That is the main talking point of the HD DVD PG. Toshiba has not done all that well with their players that cost over $500. Onkyo would have been better off selling a bluray player because bluray owners apparently do not mind paying for a top quality player.


Do the majority of buyers concern themselves with audio codecs or are they more impacted by the perceived value of a better picture? Does JSP even know what an audio codec is?

Hhhmmmnnn....

I am sure not many joe6packs know what a codec is, but they know when something sounds good, or better. Can you imagine yourself as a joe6pack going to a HD DVD site and reading a HD DVD review of transformers as they talk about how good DD+ is, and you find out that you cannot have it because your receiver does not support it. The biggest selling point of the DVD format was better sound and pictures. If you are only getting better pictures and not sound, was it worth the price? One guy who works in the mailroom at my job bought it(the A2) and when he realized that he could not access DTHD or DD+, but could only get regular DD, he returned the player. He is just one case, imagine other going through this same excercise.

[emorphien]

This whole notion about impulse buying based on the $200 figure is gleaned from the DVD format. When the DVD format players reached $200, sales took off.
No it's not just from DVD players. $200 is the generally accepted price point where many things enter the realm of impulse buying.

More and more GPS units are getting close to that price point, and once they do many expect their sales to skyrocket. The DVD player is a good example of something that followed that trend, it's a price people can accept for something they aren't even sure they need yet.

[bobsticks]

I am sure not many joe6packs know what a codec is, but they know when something sounds good, or better. Can you imagine yourself as a joe6pack going to a HD DVD site and reading a HD DVD review of transformers as they talk about how good DD+ is, and you find out that you cannot have it because your receiver does not support it. The biggest selling point of the DVD format was better sound and pictures. If you are only getting better pictures and not sound, was it worth the price? One guy who works in the mailroom at my job bought it(the A2) and when he realized that he could not access DTHD or DD+, but could only get regular DD, he returned the player. He is just one case, imagine other going through this same excercise.

My thinking is that the guy in your mailroom is an anomoly (and presumably works in the audio industry, at least loosely). And while it's true that the average consumer may be a bit more educated due to the internet these price drops are bringing things to the point of impulse buy consideration and into the realm of J6P. I have not any case study to support that, just the blather that I hear coming out of folks' pieholes when their gawking at shiny, new toys.

My point isn't that HD-DVD will "win" or is a better product, but that at the current rate could make enough market penetration to at least lengthen the war a bit. As for the other stuff, thanks for sharing your perception as it pretty much solidified what I already suspected.

[drseid]

Amazon has also gotten on board for $197.99 with free shipping. I just bought one for our bedroom TV along with an HDMI cable for $210 all in. I guess the impulse buy strategy worked on me. ;-)

----Dave

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Amazon has also gotten on board for $197.99 with free shipping. I just bought one for our bedroom TV along with an HDMI cable for $210 all in. I guess the impulse buy strategy worked on me. ;-)

----Dave

Dave, you are hardly a joe6pack buddy LOL. I personally would not touch it, too many issues dog this player. Some players play fine, others I have read on AVS have had quite a few problems. This to me is a sign of QC issues.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

My thinking is that the guy in your mailroom is an anomoly (and presumably works in the audio industry, at least loosely). And while it's true that the average consumer may be a bit more educated due to the internet these price drops are bringing things to the point of impulse buy consideration and into the realm of J6P. I have not any case study to support that, just the blather that I hear coming out of folks' pieholes when their gawking at shiny, new toys.

My point isn't that HD-DVD will "win" or is a better product, but that at the current rate could make enough market penetration to at least lengthen the war a bit. As for the other stuff, thanks for sharing your perception as it pretty much solidified what I already suspected.

Actually is a VERY non audio type of guy. What he was expecting was the A2 to be like his bluray player. Something he could just plug and play in his current system that has no HDMI inputs.

All of this is just anecdotal, but my buddy who is manager at a BB in the bay area has instructed all of his sales person to let the customer know what studios support which players to combat all of the returns he is getting.

[L.J.]

Amazon has also gotten on board for $197.99 with free shipping. I just bought one for our bedroom TV along with an HDMI cable for $210 all in. I guess the impulse buy strategy worked on me. ;-)

----Dave

Yeah I thought about pulling the trigger myself, but I think I'll wait. Not bad for a bedroom unit.

In my situation, I'd probably get one for my main system and eventually move it to another room if i ever upgraded to a higher quality HD DVD player. I have plenty of shelf space and an extra HDMI input on my Yammie waiting to be used.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Dave, you are hardly a joe6pack buddy LOL. I personally would not touch it, too many issues dog this player. Some players play fine, others I have read on AVS have had quite a few problems. This to me is a sign of QC issues.

I bought that baby refurbished from Tigerdirect for about $200 and so far I haven't seen any problems. I also have the A20, and two A1s. They all work!!!! The upconversion seems high quality as I was mesmerized with the ever cheesy Nightmare on Elm Street 3 on DVD with the D2. I remembered that movie as a kid being a whole lot better. Sure it stunk but it looked great. With the firmware updates you get new features, too. Its not a bad investment.

[drseid]

Dave, you are hardly a joe6pack buddy LOL. I personally would not touch it, too many issues dog this player. Some players play fine, others I have read on AVS have had quite a few problems. This to me is a sign of QC issues.

OK, maybe I'm not Joe6pack... ;-) Still I am referred to by many who know me as "Mr. Cheap" (believe it or not). I like a good value as good as the next guy -- maybe moreso.

As for the quality issues, I think I heard somewhere that the manufacturing facilities on these were switched to China on many units. It would not shock me if that has something to do with the quality issues. In my case, by purchasing from Amazon, I know they will make good if anything goes amiss (fingers crossed though). Of course with my luck I'll get a China unit. :-(

I realize the A2 is not representative of the best the two formats have to offer, but our 40 inch 1080p Sony Bravia TV in the bedroom most likely is too small for us to notice the difference and the price is right at sub $200 with the 5 free HD DVD offer.

---Dave

[PeruvianSkies]

That regardless of whether or not this player becomes obsolete as a HD-DVD player (if Blu-ray wins out), but it still serves as a good $200 DVD player that is probably better than any $200 basic DVD player at this point. This price-point is definitely tempting for many. I am most likely going to be getting the new LG dual format player to review in the next few weeks.

[pixelthis]

That regardless of whether or not this player becomes obsolete as a HD-DVD player (if Blu-ray wins out), but it still serves as a good $200 DVD player that is probably better than any $200 basic DVD player at this point. This price-point is definitely tempting for many. I am most likely going to be getting the new LG dual format player to review in the next few weeks.
BUT most wouldnt pay 200 bucks for a "good" dvd player.
AND spending 200 bucks on anything that will be obsolete in a few years is never a good bargain.
And what does "joe sixpack" say when he finds out that his player is a "no disney"
zone? A lot of hddisc viewers say that DVD doesnt cut it after seeing hd discs of either format, so the value as a DVD player is a bit nebulous to say the least.
Make a good boat anchor tho

[PeruvianSkies]

BUT most wouldnt pay 200 bucks for a "good" dvd player.
AND spending 200 bucks on anything that will be obsolete in a few years is never a good bargain.
And what does "joe sixpack" say when he finds out that his player is a "no disney"
zone? A lot of hddisc viewers say that DVD doesnt cut it after seeing hd discs of either format, so the value as a DVD player is a bit nebulous to say the least.
Make a good boat anchor tho

Just about everything in electronics becomes obsolete to some degree....It's become second nature for people to replace electronics with the understanding that something newer, better, faster or whatever lie ahead. It's the same with computers.

[pixelthis]

Just about everything in electronics becomes obsolete to some degree....It's become second nature for people to replace electronics with the understanding that something newer, better, faster or whatever lie ahead. It's the same with computers.

TRUE enough, but spending 200 bucks on something that wont be here that long and has a limited studio support seems silly when you can get a Blu for 399 with 5 free
movies, and it will be around awhile, I mean, an extra 200 bucks?
Is that really that much?

[bobsticks]

OK, maybe I'm not Joe6pack... ;-) Still I am referred to by many who know me as "Mr. Cheap" (believe it or not). I like a good value as good as the next guy -- maybe moreso.---Dave


uummm, Dave, you know your equipment list appears right below your posts, right? That "Mr Cheap" thing is a bit of a hard sell.

[drseid]

uummm, Dave, you know your equipment list appears right below your posts, right? That "Mr Cheap" thing is a bit of a hard sell.

Maybe "Mr. Value" is a better descriptor. ;-)

---Dave

[drichardson]

"My point was that the unit in question has been discontinued and is available in very limited numbers and the one that replace it is more money.A couple of hundred players is very small in the big picture.

bill"


The problem Bill is that Wal-mart will be selling the discontinued unit at $98.87
and Sears has announced the new unit (A3) at 169.00 bundled with two free movies and a mail in offer for 5 more free movies. You can't beat that with a stick!

Unless Sony comes up with something - I hear death bells for Blu-Ray despite content - 1080p vs 1080i vs 720p ? 720p is fine with me. It all comes to the point of diminishing returns - unless you have JM Lab type dollars :p .

Infinity Kappa 6 (x3)
Snell E-II (X3)
Sharp HDTV Projector
Yahmaha and DBX amplification
HTPC
32 Inch HDCP monitor
xbox 360 hd-dvd

[GMichael]

"My point was that the unit in question has been discontinued and is available in very limited numbers and the one that replace it is more money.A couple of hundred players is very small in the big picture.

bill"


The problem Bill is that Wal-mart will be selling the discontinued unit at $98.87
and Sears has announced the new unit (A3) at 169.00 bundled with two free movies and a mail in offer for 5 more free movies. You can't beat that with a stick!

Unless Sony comes up with something - I hear death bells for Blu-Ray despite content - 1080p vs 1080i vs 720p ? 720p is fine with me. It all comes to the point of diminishing returns - unless you have JM Lab type dollars :p .

Infinity Kappa 6 (x3)
Snell E-II (X3)
Sharp HDTV Projector
Yahmaha and DBX amplification
HTPC
32 Inch HDCP monitor
xbox 360 hd-dvd

I think you should check the tint on those glasses you have on. BR isn't dead by a long shot. From where I sit, it's the 2-1 odds favorite.

[PeruvianSkies]

Here is a write-up my friend did after attending the Blu-ray Festival... it's unfortunate that I was unable to attend and a shame I didn't get to go and track down Sir T and slap him around with some movie knowledge...oh well, maybe next time.


Though we think that both HD formats will be around for a long while, the recent Blu-ray Festival in Hollywood we attended may have initially seemed like an event to talk about one format over another, but it turned out to be much more as the companies involved had more surprises that any of the guest attendees could have imagined.

Originally, the split between two formats was like Beta battling VHS and has been treated as such, but this one has become more complicated. There is the diehard DVD-Video crowd who like the 12” LaserDisc crowd before stick by the format to the end and admirably so. They are the adamant supporters of the new HD-DVD format, which at its best delivers fine 1080p lines of picture definition, has fine menus and can also contain extras more interactive than ever and the newest state of the art sound for film. Blu-ray offers the same kind of performance, though it works differently and in incompatible. So what could have changed?

Besides the usual gatherings, speeches, showings of hardware & software and discussion of statistics, the Blu-ray group decided to add actions to words with two impressive presentations that just got better and better.

The first had to do with menus, something many have criticized Blu-ray for as being inferior to long-existing technology (even in its latest form) supplied by Microsoft. For us, we are most concerned with picture & sound, then extras and their accuracy, but a new format should have ease of use and be as consumer friendly as possible. To this end, the new Blu-ray menus have become like bibliography, dictionary, index and thesaurus and their ambitions to cross-reference everything in every way shape and form for the main program’s content and taken picture in picture to new levels. You will be hearing much more about BD-J (Blu-ray Disc Java) in the coming months. There is also an Audio Mixing function you can use on soundtracks that you can have fun with or use to study multi-channel sound design.

The sneak preview titles included upcoming films like Live Free Or Die Hard, Independence Day, I, Robot, Master & Commander and the underrated Danny Boyle Science Fiction thriller Sunshine. Separately at one of the events, Close Encounters Of The Third Kind was also being shown off. These high-profile titles will have fans happy and are smartly-chosen showcases for the latest interactivity, but even more than that, it is about treating the films with class long after Criterion began such treatment decades ago with the 1933 King Kong. With menus and feature like this, all the studios supporting the format will have to be as ambitious as Criterion and the smarter they are using these new value-added avenues, the more people will follow their love of film.

Even more significant was the presentation by worldwide electronics giant Panasonic, who after years of competing with Sony, has teamed up with them on Blu-ray. The fruits of that partnership were on display to the world press in several ways at their offices when they showed off a new chain of home video HD hardware, software and the superior performance the new line yielded was nothing short of breathtaking.

For starters, there is a new camcorder line that eliminates both discs and tapes, using a new advanced square chip the size of a 25-cent U.S. quarter coin called the HD SD Memory Card, which at its best can record 40 minutes of 1080i HD and 5.1 digital sound with it. The playback was amazing and larger chips are available, including possibly 1080p performance.

Furthermore, with the new Panasonic DMP-BD30 (replacing the BD10 model) model Blu-ray player, you can plug those chips into the front of the machine and watch what you shot.

Then there is the DMP-BD30 itself, which may be the most advanced machine on the consumer market (rivaled only by Pioneer Elite’s more expensive line) with so many performance upgrades that in comparison to previous Blu-ray machine playback (and we have seen many of the machines produced in action to date) look like what many might have reasonably expected 2,000-line progressive scan HD to look. Detail was improved from the same Blu-ray discs (like Chicken Little, still one of the best around) from previous players we had seen it on, but this was pure 1080p and the purest yet. No red hitting a “maroon wall” and other imperfections that were just accepted as HD flaws were lessened or gone.

The older 3:2 pull down progressive scan approach has been replaced by 1080/24p playback, closer to what only top professional HD studios have to offer. A diagonally split-screen (one for the master tape, one for Blu-ray from lower-left-to-upper-right corner) fooled some smart people, so close was the performance. And this is just what Panasonic decided to show. The advancement of their P4HD approach with this produces an HD image that imitates a kind of layering and weaving only previously associated with film, resulting in amazing performance anyone can see differs from the best DVDs around. Who knows what kind of HD is in progress secretly from the Panasonic labs next?

After seeing all this, it left just about all previous Blu-ray and HD-DVD playback behind, but is exclusive only to Blu-ray. Panasonic is co-developing Blu-ray with Sony, Phillips and Pioneer, so the other generations of machines from all should follow behind, so where does that leave HD-DVD?

We like both formats and once again want to reiterate that this is all about software in the end, no matter how good the players are. At this point, there is plenty of high quality, stunning software title releases in both formats. For a while as standard DVD-Video holds out, any good HD playback from either format will look better if set up correctly. But at this point, Blu-ray has now proved that they have the software/hardware combo superior to HD-DVD.

As a result, either Blu-ray will eliminate HD-DVD or it will become the Rolls Royce format, while HD-DVD will have to settle for being a good Cadillac at best when it comes to picture if a player as advanced does not arrive soon. If the latter happens, it will be a cheaper format for the masses who cannot afford the more expensive Blu-ray machines. In both cases, however, machines will continue to drop in price, while used software and even hardware will continue to show up as new machines succeed the old.

Magic of the DVD name did not help the high definition audio format DVD-Audio (with a capital ‘A’) format replace the Compact Disc or beat Super Audio CD, which did not replace CDs either, but beat DVD-A (as it is also known) as the audiophile format of choice. Both of them (reviewed extensively on this site) also had good titles and bad, with Universal Music (the only company to do so) issuing some albums in both formats. Though DVD-A could hold some extras, its high definition MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) format (a predecessor of Dolby Digital that could do 192 kHz/24bit 2.0 and 96/24 5.1) was no match for SACD’s giant single megabit DSD (Direct Stream Digital) format. Luckily for HD-DVD, it does not have any obvious inferiority in audio or video playback, so it is the players that will now count more than ever.

Toshiba and Microsoft (to support their rival X-BOX 360 over Sony’s Playstation 3) have every reason to support HD-DVD and with the tons of royalty money Toshiba gained with regular DVD, can you blame them for not letting go? If I were in their position, I would probably stand my company in the way of the others too.

The ad campaigns have pushed the DVD connection, but like DVD-Audio, maybe using the DVD lettering is confusing to some. Blu-ray is a new, fresh name, but still does not make sense to most people because they do not know about it yet. That is all about to change.

The Holiday 2007 season is going to be one for the books no matter what happens and any format war will benefit the consumers who understand what is going on. That an HD picture on a five-inch disc is possible was unthinkable seven years ago, as it was with DVD (and failed formats like CD-I and SVCD (Super Video CD) that were 5-inch attempts to replace VHS and 12” LaserDiscs) a dozen years ago, but these advances are what make home theater, computer software and electronics an exciting field, especially when top rate film and music material is the software at issue.

As you read this, an older (but not the oldest, clunkiest, oversized models) Toshiba HD-DVD player went on sale for $100, unthinkable only a few months ago. We’ll see what consumer experience was like on that offer and if it is repeated, see if any machines may have been held back by (a) certain chain(s) making the offer or not so they would have more or a later sale.

A few things are for certain. DVD is now the CD of our time (leaving CD as old as 12” LaserDisc at this point where technical advances are concerned) in its commonness and ability to impress subsumed by better formats, people want better picture quality no matter what is said about downloads (the assumption of tolerating poor quality did not lead most to keep their VHS collections) and HD is about to make a landing the least informed/interested will notice.

One phrase we can carry over from analog TV and even the old radio drama days will continue to apply to this situation: Stay Tuned!

[drseid]

I think you should check the tint on those glasses you have on. BR isn't dead by a long shot. From where I sit, it's the 2-1 odds favorite.
I'd say closer to even money now with the recent response to the $99 offers, and CC's current $130 offer. I agree though that the format is not even close to being "dead" let alone on its way out. I think it has every bit as much a chance of long term survival as HD DVD. I still maintain my long-term position of both formats being able to survive long-term.

---Dave

[pixelthis]

I'd say closer to even money now with the recent response to the $99 offers, and CC's current $130 offer. I agree though that the format is not even close to being "dead" let alone on its way out. I think it has every bit as much a chance of long term survival as HD DVD. I still maintain my long-term position of both formats being able to survive long-term.

---Dave

Even money? Blu ray "dead" even tho its kicking HDDVD butt?
What a bunch of delusional thinking.
HDDVD is what is "dead", witness the fire sales going on:1:

[drseid]

Even money? Blu ray "dead" even tho its kicking HDDVD butt?
What a bunch of delusional thinking.
HDDVD is what is "dead", witness the fire sales going on:1:
The dead part of your comment I certainly concur with. The part about it being delusional to believe it is even money between the two formats is not, IMO. If you look at the recent demand of the A2 and the pricing retailers are selling the new A3 at, player sales are and will continue to ramp up for HD DVD sales over the rest of Q4 and into next year. Now this will be somewhat countered by the $399 Playstation3 model pricing, but $99-$199 for the entry-level HD DVD players is still only 25-50% of the lowest priced BR player cost, and the $99 price point has proven to be a price most people will buy no matter what they think of the format war. The relatively low HD DVD player price point is going to heavily influence the landscape going forward, make no mistake about it. It is "delusional" to think otherwise, IMO.

---Dave

[L.J.]

I'm still hoping that BR wins and in situations where software is available on both formats, I'll be going with BR. From my simple point of view, I like the fact that BR seems to offer better audio quality, more new releases and the movie selection is good as well. I can't remember the last time I read a review on a BR that didn't have some sort of HD audio track.

I'm not saying that HDDVD is weak or anything, I just don't like seeing DD on hits like Transformers or Bourne Identity for example. It may be a step up over the DVD soundtrack, but I still would perfer a lossless track like TrueHD or on every disc.

With the rumors that Warner may go BR soon, I'm hoping this happens and that this stupid war will end soon. Being neutral has it's advantages though. If the war does drag on, at least I got a way to view whatever HD software I feel like and not limited to half.

[drseid]

I'm still hoping that BR wins and in situations where software is available on both formats, I'll be going with BR. From my simple point of view, I like the fact that BR seems to offer better audio quality, more new releases and the movie selection is good as well. I can't remember the last time I read a review on a BR that didn't have some sort of HD audio track.

I'm not saying that HDDVD is weak or anything, I just don't like seeing DD on hits like Transformers or Bourne Identity for example. It may be a step up over the DVD soundtrack, but I still would perfer a lossless track like TrueHD or on every disc.

With the rumors that Warner may go BR soon, I'm hoping this happens and that this stupid war will end soon. Being neutral has it's advantages though. If the war does drag on, at least I got a way to view whatever HD software I feel like and not limited to half.

I agree about the lossless audio tracks... I too would like to see more HD DVDs use them, and there really is no reason why they don't. HD DVD needs to step up to the plate on this point.

As for the Warner rumors... I have heard them... of course I have heard others that have Warner going the opposite direction... January or February of next year should be interesting one way or another...

---Dave

[GMichael]

Has anyone noticed that sinse Wal-Marts $98.00 HD-DVD special that they are no longer selling ANY HD-DVD players right now? All I see are BR players on their site.

[Woochifer]

Has anyone noticed that sinse Wal-Marts $98.00 HD-DVD special that they are no longer selling ANY HD-DVD players right now? All I see are BR players on their site.

I dropped by the WalMart store in my area last Friday, and did not see any of the $98 HD-DVD players in stock. All they had was one $300 HD-DVD player and one $500 Blu-ray player on the shelves. The demos for both of these units had a lot of dust caked on.

Sounds like this was strictly a one-off inventory clearance by Toshiba (since that $98 special is a discontinued model), though it now puts pressure on all HD optical manufacturers to lower their price points -- much like those black Friday plasma HDTV specials made that price point more of a permanent reduction than a one-time special.

[pixelthis]

I dropped by the WalMart store in my area last Friday, and did not see any of the $98 HD-DVD players in stock. All they had was one $300 HD-DVD player and one $500 Blu-ray player on the shelves. The demos for both of these units had a lot of dust caked on.

Sounds like this was strictly a one-off inventory clearance by Toshiba (since that $98 special is a discontinued model), though it now puts pressure on all HD optical manufacturers to lower their price points -- much like those black Friday plasma HDTV specials made that price point more of a permanent reduction than a one-time special.

Which means that tosh didn't CARE about the price other HDDVD makers were selling their units for, in other words they wanted to get rid of their stock and didnt care about the long term consequences.
Probably because they don't see a long term.
You can get a sony blu for 399$ , the only advantage to HDDVD was price, blu is way more sophisticated, and has more long term viability, and more studio and industry
support.
AFTER the firesale the least you will be able to get an HD player for is 198$, a savings of a 100 bucks over a blu ray.
You'd have to be the cheapest S.O..B on the planet to go for that

[GMichael]

You can get a sony blu for 399$
you will be able to get an HD player for is 198$,
a savings of a 100 bucks over a blu ray.


My math isn't working out for me. Can you help me with this one?
399 - 198 is what?

[PeruvianSkies]

My math isn't working out for me. Can you help me with this one?
399 - 198 is what?

Let me go ask some cheap SOB and see what they say.

[GMichael]

Let me go ask some cheap SOB and see what they say.


I AM a cheap SOB. You could ask me.

[Groundbeef]

I AM a cheap SOB. You could ask me.

$399-$198= $250 Cash in your pocket. See with the PS3 you get Spiderman 3 in the box. Thats like $50 right off the top (I know its only $25, but because its FREE, its like getting an extra $25. See $25+$25=$50) Then, you get the 5 FREE movies. And thats like at least another $200 free cash money. So, actually, you get the PS FREE 6 movies, and the president of Sony comes and shakes your hand.

Does that make sense? It does for me.

[GMichael]

$399-$198= $250 Cash in your pocket. See with the PS3 you get Spiderman 3 in the box. Thats like $50 right off the top (I know its only $25, but because its FREE, its like getting an extra $25. See $25+$25=$50) Then, you get the 5 FREE movies. And thats like at least another $200 free cash money. So, actually, you get the PS FREE 6 movies, and the president of Sony comes and shakes your hand.

Does that make sense? It does for me.

OK OK, Let me get this right. If I buy a BR player, I'll get:

The player for $399.
A movie that costs $25, so that puts $50 in my pocket. $399 - 50 = $349
5 free movies that should cost $2 each but are worth $50 each = $250
So $349 - the $250 = $99.
But then I wouldn't need the HD-DVD player that I bought for $99 so then it ends up being free!

I got it!
I got it!
By George, I think I've got it!

But I wanted the PS3...
Can Wii start over?

[Groundbeef]

OK OK, Let me get this right. If I buy a BR player, I'll get:

The player for $399.
A movie that costs $25, so that puts $50 in my pocket. $399 - 50 = $349
5 free movies that should cost $2 each but are worth $50 each = $250
So $349 - the $250 = $99.
But then I wouldn't need the HD-DVD player that I bought for $99 so then it ends up being free!

I got it!
I got it!
By George, I think I've got it!

But I wanted the PS3...
Can Wii start over?

Plus, don't forget, you also get 5 FREE movies with your $99 player. Since they are free, its like they are actually printing money AND giving you movies. So everytime you put a movie in your HD-DVD player, it dispenses crisp new $2.00 bills out the back end. After 50 movies, you have actually paid for it yourself.

Plus, don't forget the $43.67 you get for posting on this board. Just forward a list of posts and Bill Gates cuts you a check. I just got my first check for $246.23. Almost enough to buy another Free player!

[PeruvianSkies]

I AM a cheap SOB. You could ask me.

Ok, MR. SOB, I was wondering if you could with all your infinite wisdom and knowledge please solve the following universally challenging and complex mathematically equations...we have been trying to figure this one out for years and have scoured the world throughout looking for the most advanced brains known to exist to figure this out....

What is $399 minus $198???

[GMichael]

Ok, MR. SOB, I was wondering if you could with all your infinite wisdom and knowledge please solve the following universally challenging and complex mathematically equations...we have been trying to figure this one out for years and have scoured the world throughout looking for the most advanced brains known to exist to figure this out....

What is $399 minus $198???

100 (two dollar bills, plus or minus a buck)

[Groundbeef]

100 (two dollar bills, plus or minus a buck)

I think he wanted that converted to pounds of Chilian Sea Bass.

[pixelthis]

Ok, MR. SOB, I was wondering if you could with all your infinite wisdom and knowledge please solve the following universally challenging and complex mathematically equations...we have been trying to figure this one out for years and have scoured the world throughout looking for the most advanced brains known to exist to figure this out....

What is $399 minus $198???

Its 299$, minus over a 100 bucks FOR MOVIES, the diff is actually less than a hundred bucks.
But even with a 200 price diff (which wont last long) its still stupid as hell to go for an HDDVD player.
And what do you know about it anyway puruvian schizo?
Any brain residing in a zoo would probably be considered "advanced" in your eyes:1:

BUT HEY , if the idea of buying an edsel and paying good money for something that will disapear in a few years appeals to you, go ahead:sleep:

[bobsticks]

BUT HEY , if the idea of buying an edsel and paying good money for something that will disapear in a few years appeals to you, go ahead:sleep:

Aw geez, good money? Many of us pay that much every couple of weeks in gas. Some of us tip more than that depending on the event.

Stop banging on people just because of what amounts to a very small expenditure outweighs a curmudgeon's stipend. It's all relative.

[Groundbeef]

Aw geez, good money? Many of us pay that much every couple of weeks in gas. Some of us tip more than that depending on the event.

Stop banging on people just because of what amounts to a very small expenditure outweighs a curmudgeon's stipend. It's all relative.

I agree. At $100 its a bargin. There are several exclusive HD-DVD movies, that make that price point very attractive. It is now even cheaper to buy a BR and HD-DVD players, than a combo.

Plus with the free movies and all, its like they are paying you to use the player.

[GMichael]

Its 299$, minus over a 100 bucks FOR MOVIES, the diff is actually less than a hundred bucks.
But even with a 200 price diff (which wont last long) its still stupid as hell to go for an HDDVD player.
And what do you know about it anyway puruvian schizo?
Any brain residing in a zoo would probably be considered "advanced" in your eyes:1:

BUT HEY , if the idea of buying an edsel and paying good money for something that will disapear in a few years appeals to you, go ahead:sleep:

Don't get me wrong, I'm pulling for BR. But an HD-DVD player for $98.00 plus 5 free movies? It's like they are paying me to take it off their hands. That's a deal no matter who wins the war. It will make a great DVD upscaller in the bedroom. Oh, and did I meantion it was free? 5 HD-DVD movies at $25 each is $125 that they gave me.

[L.J.]

I agree. It's not like the player is gonna explode if HD-DVD goes away.

[GMichael]

I agree. It's not like the player is gonna explode if HD-DVD goes away.

I think it automatically fills with cement and attaches itself to your boat.

[L.J.]

I think it automatically fills with cement and attaches itself to your boat.

Yeah could you imagine that. "HD-DVD has officially lost the format war....BR wins"


Poof.........smoke starts to come out of all the HD players & all the software just crumbles away.

WHAT? Stop looking at me like that! It could happen :idea:

[GMichael]

Yeah could you imagine that. "HD-DVD has officially lost the format war....BR wins"


Poof.........smoke starts to come out of all the HD players & all the software just crumbles away.

WHAT? Stop looking at me like that! It could happen :idea:

Whoa! What if my PS3 is stacked on top of it?!:incazzato:
:sad: :confused5: :nonod: :sad:

[Groundbeef]

I think it automatically fills with cement and attaches itself to your boat.

And sometimes, late at night, it makes children cry.

[pixelthis]

Don't get me wrong, I'm pulling for BR. But an HD-DVD player for $98.00 plus 5 free movies? It's like they are paying me to take it off their hands. That's a deal no matter who wins the war. It will make a great DVD upscaller in the bedroom. Oh, and did I meantion it was free? 5 HD-DVD movies at $25 each is $125 that they gave me.

HAVENT you heard? The movies you get "don't" count.
This from groundbeef, who apparently knows where to get them for free.
AND they are paying you to take them off of THEIR hands, THATS THE POINT.

This fire sale is somewhat surprizing , it means that HDDVD won't be around in a year,
tops. I thought they might last at least two.
As for the concrete, that you have to obtain for yourself, but that is just an expression, these players are so small they probably won't make decent boat anchors.
Maybe door stops, or target practice.
As for the "upconverting" feature, you don't get extra rez from that, so its a nice DVD
player, you don't buy it for that, if you're already trying to think up alternate uses
before you buy it then that just shows how silly buying it actually is:1:

[GMichael]

HAVENT you heard? The movies you get "don't" count.
This from groundbeef, who apparently knows where to get them for free.
AND they are paying you to take them off of THEIR hands, THATS THE POINT.

This fire sale is somewhat surprizing , it means that HDDVD won't be around in a year,
tops. I thought they might last at least two.
As for the concrete, that you have to obtain for yourself, but that is just an expression, these players are so small they probably won't make decent boat anchors.
Maybe door stops, or target practice.
As for the "upconverting" feature, you don't get extra rez from that, so its a nice DVD
player, you don't buy it for that, if you're already trying to think up alternate uses
before you buy it then that just shows how silly buying it actually is:1:

They're not much worse than the 5 you get from BR. But for some reason you seem to think that they count then. What's up with that? Pretzel logic?

Who's thinking up reasons? Have you priced any "good" DVD players?

Ever think that the reason you don't see a difference is because of your display? Is it an LCD? If so, that may be the reason.

[L.J.]

HAVENT you heard? The movies you get "don't" count.
This from groundbeef, who apparently knows where to get them for free.
AND they are paying you to take them off of THEIR hands, THATS THE POINT.

This fire sale is somewhat surprizing , it means that HDDVD won't be around in a year,
tops. I thought they might last at least two.
As for the concrete, that you have to obtain for yourself, but that is just an expression, these players are so small they probably won't make decent boat anchors.
Maybe door stops, or target practice.
As for the "upconverting" feature, you don't get extra rez from that, so its a nice DVD
player, you don't buy it for that, if you're already trying to think up alternate uses
before you buy it then that just shows how silly buying it actually is:1:

Do you need a hug? It'll be OK.....really.

[pixelthis]

:1:
They're not much worse than the 5 you get from BR. But for some reason you seem to think that they count then. What's up with that? Pretzel logic?

Who's thinking up reasons? Have you priced any "good" DVD players?

Ever think that the reason you don't see a difference is because of your display? Is it an LCD? If so, that may be the reason.

AH yes, another dig at LCD tech, well, LCD is here, and it aint going nowhere.
GET USED TO IT.
Especially with all of the press about all of the returns plasmas have suffered.
I havent watched BLU or HDDVD on my set, but my set is 1366/768, the set I demoed
bLU ON WAS A 1080P SONY, WITH 24FPS for movies (pixel for pixel)
Dont get me wrong, the picture was great, but I have a collection of sheryl Crow vids,
very high quality and the difference just isnt worth 400 bucks right now.
And when you add in the fact that I will probably have to disconnect my sacd/dvdaudio
player...
When are they going to have a five channel passthrough on these players, so you can daisy chain them? That would be a great selling point for me.
Some receivers have two sets of input jacks, that works also.
As for a "hug" my crack ho girlfriend has plenty of those

[GMichael]

:1:

AH yes, another dig at LCD tech, well, LCD is here, and it aint going nowhere.
GET USED TO IT.
Especially with all of the press about all of the returns plasmas have suffered.
I havent watched BLU or HDDVD on my set, but my set is 1366/768, the set I demoed
bLU ON WAS A 1080P SONY, WITH 24FPS for movies (pixel for pixel)
Dont get me wrong, the picture was great, but I have a collection of sheryl Crow vids,
very high quality and the difference just isnt worth 400 bucks right now.
And when you add in the fact that I will probably have to disconnect my sacd/dvdaudio
player...
When are they going to have a five channel passthrough on these players, so you can daisy chain them? That would be a great selling point for me.
Some receivers have two sets of input jacks, that works also.
As for a "hug" my crack ho girlfriend has plenty of those

Easy there Pix. I have nothing against LCD really. I was just poking fun at ya.

Sorry to hear about the girlfriend. Have you tried meeting girls at church instead of on the corner of 9th and 41st?:idea:

Don't get upset. Still just playin'.

Oh, and keep aN eye ON tHAt cAps LoCk Key. I'm gEttInG a Head Ache rEAdinG yOuR poStS.

[L.J.]

Hey, check it out, Pix no longer has a red thing under his name. Our boy seems to be making a comeback.

[GMichael]

Hey, check it out, Pix no longer has a red thing under his name. Our boy seems to be making a comeback.

He's been a good boy. Maybe someone gave him a cookie.

[Groundbeef]

He's been a good boy. Maybe someone gave him a cookie.

To top it off hes "an unknown quantity" now according to his chicklit.

[L.J.]

He's been a good boy. Maybe someone gave him a cookie.

I've given him a few greenies. He's actually not that bad. Well not all of the time. We all have our moments though. Right GB :)

[Groundbeef]

I've given him a few greenies. He's actually not that bad. Well not all of the time. We all have our moments though. Right GB :)

Hmm. I'm not sure what you're referring to. Just because your higher in rank rep wise, doesn't give you the right to waltz around here "Like your all that AND a bag of chips!".

[Robert-The-Rambler]

:1:


And when you add in the fact that I will probably have to disconnect my sacd/dvdaudio
player...
When are they going to have a five channel passthrough on these players, so you can daisy chain them? That would be a great selling point for me.
Some receivers have two sets of input jacks, that works also.
As for a "hug" my crack ho girlfriend has plenty of those

The solution is simple for me. I just bought four A/V switching units from GE and connected them to several sets of RCA wires. With those cheap A/V switching boxes you can have even 3 or more 7.1 connections to your receiver. Just run 7.1 from your source through the switcher to the 7.1 inputs on your receiver and repeat as necessary. All you need is the wire and the ability to remember which connection is what. It is fairly simple for me. RCA pairs 1 are my HD-DVD player and RCA pairs 2 are my PC. It works great!!!

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

BR will win and HDDVD will go away. 20 years later the cult of HDDVD will convince everybody that HDDVD has a more filmlike picture (in 20 years studios will put BR to use by putting 20 seasons of The Simpsons on one disk at 320x240 resolution). seas will turn to blood and dogs will lay with cats.

[GMichael]

BR will win and HDDVD will go away. 20 years later the cult of HDDVD will convince everybody that HDDVD has a more filmlike picture (in 20 years studios will put BR to use by putting 20 seasons of The Simpsons on one disk at 320x240 resolution). seas will turn to blood and dogs will lay with cats.

And a few months later we'll have a litter of pittens. Or is that kuppies?

[pixelthis]

Easy there Pix. I have nothing against LCD really. I was just poking fun at ya.

Sorry to hear about the girlfriend. Have you tried meeting girls at church instead of on the corner of 9th and 41st?:idea:

Don't get upset. Still just playin'.

Oh, and keep aN eye ON tHAt cAps LoCk Key. I'm gEttInG a Head Ache rEAdinG yOuR poStS.

The girls at church are more expensive in the long run.
AND sorry about the "caps", just too lazy to turn em off, what I get for posting drunk.
Can't drive drunk anymore, people react like its against the law or something.
And I know you're just ragging me aabout LCD.
Well, for the record I think LCD will be the dominant format in the future, but people on this site seems to think prognostication is preference.
I also think gas will be 5.00 U.S in a short while, doesnt mean I like it.
Plasmas are finicky and have the life of a porn star, Microprojection is smaller than its predecessor but still too bulky for most.
Most don't know the differences between LCD and PLASMA, and they just arent making an informed decision. Some dont understand the diff between the two.
Plasmas are in the same categeory as electrostatics, there is absolutely no reason for them to exist, and if cheap LCD had been around when they debuted , they wouldnt
have even made it too market.
Do people who buy them know about the high return rate? The fact that they last at most 7 to 10 years and LCD lasts 20?
Picture quality IS important, but the diff between plasma and LCD is minor, if it exists at all,
and I said it before and I'll say it again, the most important aspect of picture quality
is having a picture.
Anybody who poo poos reliability has never had to listen to the big game on a freakin
RADIO:1:

[GMichael]

The girls at church are more expensive in the long run. True
AND sorry about the "caps", just too lazy to turn em off, what I get for posting drunk.
Can't drive drunk anymore, people react like its against the law or something.
And I know you're just ragging me aabout LCD.
Well, for the record I think LCD will be the dominant format in the future, but people on this site seems to think prognostication is preference.
I also think gas will be 5.00 U.S in a short while, doesnt mean I like it.
Plasmas are finicky and have the life of a porn star, Microprojection is smaller than its predecessor but still too bulky for most.
Most don't know the differences between LCD and PLASMA, and they just arent making an informed decision. Some dont understand the diff between the two.
Plasmas are in the same categeory as electrostatics, there is absolutely no reason for them to exist, and if cheap LCD had been around when they debuted , they wouldnt
have even made it too market.
Do people who buy them know about the high return rate? The fact that they last at most 7 to 10 years and LCD lasts 20?
Picture quality IS important, but the diff between plasma and LCD is minor, if it exists at all,
and I said it before and I'll say it again, the most important aspect of picture quality
is having a picture.
Anybody who poo poos reliability has never had to listen to the big game on a freakin
RADIO:1:

Plasmas are getting better in the "long life" category. The one I picked out for my dad has a 40,000 hour expectancy, anti glare screen, and a host of new improvements that the older models never had.
But LCD is getting better with their colors and other short comings as well.
In the end, I agree that LCD is the one that Joe Public will want. It will be the dominant TV until something better comes along.
What the people here argue about is the, "LCD is the best" statements. "Best" means different things to different people. LCD is not the best in every category. But it has the things that Mr &Ms Public are looking for. They're brighter, lighter, use less juice, just to name a few advantages.

[pixelthis]

Plasmas are getting better in the "long life" category. The one I picked out for my dad has a 40,000 hour expectancy, anti glare screen, and a host of new improvements that the older models never had.
But LCD is getting better with their colors and other short comings as well.
In the end, I agree that LCD is the one that Joe Public will want. It will be the dominant TV until something better comes along.
What the people here argue about is the, "LCD is the best" statements. "Best" means different things to different people. LCD is not the best in every category. But it has the things that Mr &Ms Public are looking for. They're brighter, lighter, use less juice, just to name a few advantages.

One thing I have said (or tried to say) is that what is a hobby for us is a business to others, and we ride on a sea of mass produced product, and what display is finally
chosen is what we will have to live with.
And while the "disc" war is getting all of the attention its the display war that will dictate
our HT of the future.
When Cars came out there were steam, electric, and gas models.
Same with TV displays, sooner of later the shakeout will be over and it will be one main technology, economies of scale dictate this.
We need to start picking out ONE display form factor and start improving it, just like we need to pick ONE type disc player and go with it.
The bloodletting in the coming recession will speed this process along.
And the sooner HDDVD dies than the sooner we can get along to other things, like a music player with 30 gigs of storage:1:

[GMichael]

One thing I have said (or tried to say) is that what is a hobby for us is a business to others, and we ride on a sea of mass produced product, and what display is finally
chosen is what we will have to live with.
And while the "disc" war is getting all of the attention its the display war that will dictate
our HT of the future.
When Cars came out there were steam, electric, and gas models.
Same with TV displays, sooner of later the shakeout will be over and it will be one main technology, economies of scale dictate this.
We need to start picking out ONE display form factor and start improving it, just like we need to pick ONE type disc player and go with it.
The bloodletting in the coming recession will speed this process along.
And the sooner HDDVD dies than the sooner we can get along to other things, like a music player with 30 gigs of storage:1:

OK, I pick projectors. I know that it's not your cup of tea, and it ain't a lot of other people's cup of tea, but it sure is mine. I like the room to be on the dark side for watching TV anyhow, so the light thing is not an issue for me. In a world where bigger is better, there's no substitute for a huge projection screen.
Oh, it is an LCD projector if that helps.

[pixelthis]

OK, I pick projectors. I know that it's not your cup of tea, and it ain't a lot of other people's cup of tea, but it sure is mine. I like the room to be on the dark side for watching TV anyhow, so the light thing is not an issue for me. In a world where bigger is better, there's no substitute for a huge projection screen.
Oh, it is an LCD projector if that helps.
I'd have to go with sxrd myself.
Front projection is fine but always seemed like an extra, like a harley you take out on weekends, not something for everyday, and I need a display I can watch everyday.
When I had a house I had the room for a front projector, when I didn't have a house (or the room) I can afford one.
Someday I might get the alinement of events that will allow for one, but I kinda doubt it
When you go front projection you are making the comitment to have a real HT, seperate
from the family room(unlike most of the "ht" setups on this board, including mine)
This will always limit the use of front projectors, besides the cost of a decent one:1:

[GMichael]

I'd have to go with sxrd myself.
Front projection is fine but always seemed like an extra, like a harley you take out on weekends, not something for everyday, and I need a display I can watch everyday.
When I had a house I had the room for a front projector, when I didn't have a house (or the room) I can afford one.
Someday I might get the alinement of events that will allow for one, but I kinda doubt it
When you go front projection you are making the comitment to have a real HT, seperate
from the family room(unlike most of the "ht" setups on this board, including mine)
This will always limit the use of front projectors, besides the cost of a decent one:1:

I use both of mine every day. Still have the two extra bulbs that came free with them. Could never go back to a tiny 60" screen again.

The going rate on the model I have is $1k now. That's less than a 50" LCD.
You could pick up a 1080p model in the $3k range. These are very nice units too. Nothing cheap or skimpy about them.
The one in the family room gets used constantly. The one in the bedroom only gets used an hour or two a night. Love them to death.

[L.J.]

Could never go back to a tiny 60" screen again.

Tiny? I own a tiny 60" screen :incazzato:

[GMichael]

Tiny? I own a tiny 60" screen :incazzato:

It's ok. Just sit up real close.

Kidding LJ. 60" is a nice size. But it does seem small after watching a 106"er.
When I turn on the menu to surf for another channel, it puts a smaller picture of the channel you are already on in the corner. That "corner picture" measures over 50" for me.

On the bright side, you could watch your TV outside on a sunny day.

[bfalls]

I picked up one of the $98 HD-DVDs. I actually support Blu-ray (I work for Sony), but justified the purchase because I feel I'm actually taking money out of HD-DVD's pocket. Since most movies are in the $25+ range I felt they'll lose money on the player and an additional $125 minimum for the five free movies. For $98 if/when HD-DVD goes under I'll still be able to use it for the five movies---or fill it with cement and attach it to a boat. Its a win/win situation.

I have an 80GB PS3 I use for networking and to view SD/Blu-ray movies. I've never been very much of a gamer. It does an excellent job of upconverting SD DVDs. I viewed my son's Transformers SD DVD on both systems and the Blu-ray player had a much better picture. I was a little disappointed in the sound track, but felt it was due to the fact I saw Transformers at the IMAX which is a pretty hard act to follow. I perform ISF calibrations, so my Hitachi 57" HD RPTV has been calibrated. It has one HDMI input which I switch, so the difference between players can't be related to different TV inputs. No calibrations have been done on either player.

Working for Sony I have access to our media test center where we have every available Blu-ray player on the market, including the LG Blu-ray/HD-DVD combo player. We also have one other HD-DVD player we purchased becasue some copy-protected SD discs woudn't play on it. I'm not sure of the model. The PS3 is still the fastest loading, best quality player I've seen. We've compared titles which come out on both formats comparing the LG and several BR players side by side. The BR players had much better detail, color and saturation. The LG isn't a full-function HD-DVD player, so I don't know how equal a comparison it is, but I notice the same on my first generation HD-A2 HD-DVD player. Just my $.02.

[pixelthis]

It's ok. Just sit up real close.

Kidding LJ. 60" is a nice size. But it does seem small after watching a 106"er.
When I turn on the menu to surf for another channel, it puts a smaller picture of the channel you are already on in the corner. That "corner picture" measures over 50" for me.

On the bright side, you could watch your TV outside on a sunny day.

My room is about 12 by 12, trust me, a front projector is NOT an option, a 37 seems rather large

[pixelthis]

I picked up one of the $98 HD-DVDs. I actually support Blu-ray (I work for Sony), but justified the purchase because I feel I'm actually taking money out of HD-DVD's pocket. Since most movies are in the $25+ range I felt they'll lose money on the player and an additional $125 minimum for the five free movies. For $98 if/when HD-DVD goes under I'll still be able to use it for the five movies---or fill it with cement and attach it to a boat. Its a win/win situation.

I have an 80GB PS3 I use for networking and to view SD/Blu-ray movies. I've never been very much of a gamer. It does an excellent job of upconverting SD DVDs. I viewed my son's Transformers SD DVD on both systems and the Blu-ray player had a much better picture. I was a little disappointed in the sound track, but felt it was due to the fact I saw Transformers at the IMAX which is a pretty hard act to follow. I perform ISF calibrations, so my Hitachi 57" HD RPTV has been calibrated. It has one HDMI input which I switch, so the difference between players can't be related to different TV inputs. No calibrations have been done on either player.

Working for Sony I have access to our media test center where we have every available Blu-ray player on the market, including the LG Blu-ray/HD-DVD combo player. We also have one other HD-DVD player we purchased becasue some copy-protected SD discs woudn't play on it. I'm not sure of the model. The PS3 is still the fastest loading, best quality player I've seen. We've compared titles which come out on both formats comparing the LG and several BR players side by side. The BR players had much better detail, color and saturation. The LG isn't a full-function HD-DVD player, so I don't know how equal a comparison it is, but I notice the same on my first generation HD-A2 HD-DVD player. Just my $.02.

traitor
And of course the blu ray had a better player, it also has more space, which can lead to
higher bitrates, but its your C-note I guess.
Although I am happy to see someone else who knows the "boat anchor " reference,
whenever I use it on this site little kids like peruvian get confused:lol:

[bfalls]

Traitor! That's pretty harsh and not accurate. I purchased a $299 player for $98, so I'm certain Toshiba lost money on the deal. On top of that I get five free HD-DVDs for an average of $25 each. So I figure I took a minimum of $326 from them. I may purchase "Transformers" at a later date, but it will be much later. Until then I'll get some, although limited, enjoyment from the free HD-DVD movies and have a spare DVD player to boot.

I see no harm in seeing what both sides have to offer. How else can you develop an informed opinion about either. If Blu-ray had been the "stinker" I would have said so, but it's my "informed" opinion the Blu-Ray PS3 player has a better picture with more detail, better saturation and more dimenson than the HD-A2 player. It also does a better job of upscaling and conversion of SD DVDs.

This is a first generation HD-DVD, so I can't honestly state Blu-ray is better overall than HD-DVD, but I can say, in my opinion, all the Blu-ray players I've seen (and I've seen them all) look better in side by side comparison than the HD-A2 or LG universal players.

[pixelthis]

Traitor! That's pretty harsh and not accurate. I purchased a $299 player for $98, so I'm certain Toshiba lost money on the deal. On top of that I get five free HD-DVDs for an average of $25 each. So I figure I took a minimum of $326 from them. I may purchase "Transformers" at a later date, but it will be much later. Until then I'll get some, although limited, enjoyment from the free HD-DVD movies and have a spare DVD player to boot.

I see no harm in seeing what both sides have to offer. How else can you develop an informed opinion about either. If Blu-ray had been the "stinker" I would have said so, but it's my "informed" opinion the Blu-Ray PS3 player has a better picture with more detail, better saturation and more dimenson than the HD-A2 player. It also does a better job of upscaling and conversion of SD DVDs.

This is a first generation HD-DVD, so I can't honestly state Blu-ray is better overall than HD-DVD, but I can say, in my opinion, all the Blu-ray players I've seen (and I've seen them all) look better in side by side comparison than the HD-A2 or LG universal players.

All of the HD players sold, both HD and BLU have "lost money" be years before either one makes a profit, which BTW is what this little "format war" is about besides flaming egos.
The "winner" will enjoy tons of royalty payments for a long time, might even make a little money, eventually, anyway.
As for seeing what "both sides" have to offer go to a dealer, pull up a comfy chair and start watching, until they kick you out at least.
Every penny spent on HD prolongs this "format war" and increases costs for consumers,
and muddies the waters for less informed types (most people) who are already confused
about HD on disc, if they know about it at all, and cant understand why they need one,
especially when the govt is saying they need a new TV in a few years.
TOOK me awhile to convince mom that the cable box was all she needed, didn't have to trash her 32in sony.
This "format war" hurts everybody, but it especially hurts people who love movies, and cant see certain movies in HD because of the format, etc.
These two camps are gonna be hurt deeply by this mess , because its a different world,
when a "victor" is declared it might be a hollow victory , with everybody downloading off of the net and VOD, and movie collections on hard drives, RAID servers that have entire vollumes of movies available at the push of a button, with same button saving you a trip to the video store, if any still exist
BUT THESE TWO CAMPS OF EGOMANIAC CHUCKLEHEADS are going to bloody each other badly , and so involved in this little "war" that like the dinos, may not notice until the war is over that they are living in an ice age.
We as HT consumers need to pick a format and let the other DIE, and being on the cutting edge need to pick the better of the two, which is BLU RAY.
Having one format is better for all, look at what happemed to dvd audio, want that to happen to HD disc? So fracture the market that BOTH suffer to the point of extinction?
This is probably already happening, people are picking BLURAY and HDDVD is geting its ass kicked, but its death is stayed by every HD player sold.
EVERYBODY knows who the winner is, BLURAY, even toshiba knows it, they just dont want to bite the bullet.
We need to help them along.
When I was a kid I saw a cattle carrier wreck, man, those cows were hurting, then the state troopers showed up and headed for the trailer with their guns, soon the pain was over.
We need to do the same with HDDVD, a quick one between the eyes, by voting with our dollars, they are the weaker of the two, we need to strangle this "format in its crib,
give the stronger of the two a chance to surrive, clarify things for the uninformed, want HD on a disc?
BLURAY is it! Nothing else out there!
Cant wait for the day.
So sorry if I called you a traitor, giving false hope to a dying man with cancer the way you did, but you and other HDDVD purchasers are traitors to the HT cause, prolonging a costly war in which theres no glory, fifty years from now former HDDVD supporters
wont be saying "remember the best buy", there wont be any memorials to the tons of cash wasted on a bunch of HDDVD players that wound up full of concrete.
No one will remember the waste of having two HDDVD formats.
We need to END this mess NOW, pick one of the other, and let the other die, we need to do this, and need to do it now, if we had done it with high res audio we might have a viable hi-res format now. Or not.
But its something we need to do, because the market wont support two formats:18:

[GMichael]

All of the HD players sold, both HD and BLU have "lost money" be years before either one makes a profit, which BTW is what this little "format war" is about besides flaming egos.
The "winner" will enjoy tons of royalty payments for a long time, might even make a little money, eventually, anyway.
As for seeing what "both sides" have to offer go to a dealer, pull up a comfy chair and start watching, until they kick you out at least.
Every penny spent on HD prolongs this "format war" and increases costs for consumers,
and muddies the waters for less informed types (most people) who are already confused
about HD on disc, if they know about it at all, and cant understand why they need one,
especially when the govt is saying they need a new TV in a few years.
TOOK me awhile to convince mom that the cable box was all she needed, didn't have to trash her 32in sony.
This "format war" hurts everybody, but it especially hurts people who love movies, and cant see certain movies in HD because of the format, etc.
These two camps are gonna be hurt deeply by this mess , because its a different world,
when a "victor" is declared it might be a hollow victory , with everybody downloading off of the net and VOD, and movie collections on hard drives, RAID servers that have entire vollumes of movies available at the push of a button, with same button saving you a trip to the video store, if any still exist
BUT THESE TWO CAMPS OF EGOMANIAC CHUCKLEHEADS are going to bloody each other badly , and so involved in this little "war" that like the dinos, may not notice until the war is over that they are living in an ice age.
We as HT consumers need to pick a format and let the other DIE, and being on the cutting edge need to pick the better of the two, which is BLU RAY.
Having one format is better for all, look at what happemed to dvd audio, want that to happen to HD disc? So fracture the market that BOTH suffer to the point of extinction?
This is probably already happening, people are picking BLURAY and HDDVD is geting its ass kicked, but its death is stayed by every HD player sold.
EVERYBODY knows who the winner is, BLURAY, even toshiba knows it, they just dont want to bite the bullet.
We need to help them along.
When I was a kid I saw a cattle carrier wreck, man, those cows were hurting, then the state troopers showed up and headed for the trailer with their guns, soon the pain was over.
We need to do the same with HDDVD, a quick one between the eyes, by voting with our dollars, they are the weaker of the two, we need to strangle this "format in its crib,
give the stronger of the two a chance to surrive, clarify things for the uninformed, want HD on a disc?
BLURAY is it! Nothing else out there!
Cant wait for the day.
So sorry if I called you a traitor, giving false hope to a dying man with cancer the way you did, but you and other HDDVD purchasers are traitors to the HT cause, prolonging a costly war in which theres no glory, fifty years from now former HDDVD supporters
wont be saying "remember the best buy", there wont be any memorials to the tons of cash wasted on a bunch of HDDVD players that wound up full of concrete.
No one will remember the waste of having two HDDVD formats.
We need to END this mess NOW, pick one of the other, and let the other die, we need to do this, and need to do it now, if we had done it with high res audio we might have a viable hi-res format now. Or not.
But its something we need to do, because the market wont support two formats:18:

You live in a very strange world.

[pixelthis]

I live in the REAL world.
Havent you heard? CEDA has been canceled.
Thats like the Academy canceling the Oscars.
The economy is entering a long dark tunnel, and I am not saying that a crippled
economy wont support two formats, I'm saying it probably wont support ONE.
This is probably the last Christmas where spending is high.
If you have been laid of for six months will you worry about a new HD toy?
This "format" war was forced on the consumer, nobody asked for it.
Well, the only true democracy is one where you "vote" with your dollars.
People are "assuming" that theres nothing we can do about it.
Well, we can, we can pick one format and let the other die, if nobodies buying
they wont make the things.
or dont buy either one if you dont think thats fair, but we have given the choice to the idiots who started this mess, we seem to have forgotten that ultimately its OUR choice.
Already have a player? then dont buy any discs.
I have decided to sit out this little game myself, until the industry gets its act together
and puts out a unified format, screw em.
All we need is a simple, HD format backward compatible with DVD, suitable for collecting movies, since downloading and VOD will supplant renting thats all we need.
Doesnt seem THAT hard.
I have been through this not once but several times, and its really getting old, I beleive in the free market but that implies responsibility, you know, getting together with other industry leaders in a back room and not coming out until a new format is hammered
out, use binding arbritration if you have too, make a hybrid the "standard", they couldnt agree on a HD standard so they made EIGHTEEN resolutions the "standard"
Messy but it worked. We need something similar for HD DISCS before people get too poor to buy em:incazzato:

[GMichael]

I live in the REAL world.
Havent you heard? CEDA has been canceled.
Thats like the Academy canceling the Oscars.
The economy is entering a long dark tunnel, and I am not saying that a crippled
economy wont support two formats, I'm saying it probably wont support ONE.
This is probably the last Christmas where spending is high.
If you have been laid of for six months will you worry about a new HD toy?
This "format" war was forced on the consumer, nobody asked for it.
Well, the only true democracy is one where you "vote" with your dollars.
People are "assuming" that theres nothing we can do about it.
Well, we can, we can pick one format and let the other die, if nobodies buying
they wont make the things.
or dont buy either one if you dont think thats fair, but we have given the choice to the idiots who started this mess, we seem to have forgotten that ultimately its OUR choice.
Already have a player? then dont buy any discs.
I have decided to sit out this little game myself, until the industry gets its act together
and puts out a unified format, screw em.
All we need is a simple, HD format backward compatible with DVD, suitable for collecting movies, since downloading and VOD will supplant renting thats all we need.
Doesnt seem THAT hard.
I have been through this not once but several times, and its really getting old, I beleive in the free market but that implies responsibility, you know, getting together with other industry leaders in a back room and not coming out until a new format is hammered
out, use binding arbritration if you have too, make a hybrid the "standard", they couldnt agree on a HD standard so they made EIGHTEEN resolutions the "standard"
Messy but it worked. We need something similar for HD DISCS before people get too poor to buy em:incazzato:

Easy there Pix. Breath... That's it. Out with the bad air, in with the good. Slowly though. Don't hyperventilate like that.
Repeat after me. M-e-l-l-o-w.........M-e-l-l-o-w.........AAAAAAAOOOOOOMMMMMMMM.....

[pixelthis]

Whats WRONG WITH MY LOGIC?
Really, pick HD or BLU, get a concensus together on which one is best AND JUST BUY THAT ONE.
The only disadvantage to blu is cost, but does that matter to someone who just paid 200 bucks for a new power cord?
My point IS that we have a choice, we dont have to put up with a format war if we dont
want to.
Remember DIVX? Not that cool codec that allows for faster downloads, but that lawyer
inspired crap that would have dialed out every time you wanted to play a movie.
Didnt take long to get rid of THAT one.
WHY NOT DO THE SAME FOR HD ON DISC?
Pick one or another, start a website, and explain yourself, that you are not partisan but just are tired of being messed with by electronics companies that dont have your best interest at heart.
I guarentee ya, if we could get the sales on one format down to near zero, this little format war would be OVER.
Not gonna happen, of course, but I can dream.
No, we arent the same nation that dumped the tea into the harbor, no, we will put up with just about any kind of crap from people who want OUR money.
We have forgotten that we dont have to give it to them:1:

[PeruvianSkies]

WOW do I wish
THAT I COULD
type in ALL CAPS and make very LITTLE sense and just
BLABBER on and ON about THINGS that don't REALLY make sense.
THEN I GUESS I would be
REALLY cool with my 37" LCD that
I HAVE
since I still LIVE WITH my mom. I WILL ALSO
KEEP
TYPING IN this format so THAT
IT'S really HARD TO READ
WHAT I TYPE because there is NO LEFT
RIGHT or CENTER justification, but just RUN-ON sentences
AFTER another. DIDN'T YOU GUYS hear
that Blu-ray WON already?

[pixelthis]

WOW do I wish
THAT I COULD
type in ALL CAPS and make very LITTLE sense and just
BLABBER on and ON about THINGS that don't REALLY make sense.
THEN I GUESS I would be
REALLY cool with my 37" LCD that
I HAVE
since I still LIVE WITH my mom. I WILL ALSO
KEEP
TYPING IN this format so THAT
IT'S really HARD TO READ
WHAT I TYPE because there is NO LEFT
RIGHT or CENTER justification, but just RUN-ON sentences
AFTER another. DIDN'T YOU GUYS hear
that Blu-ray WON already?

you LIVE with YOUR mom?
FIGURES :1:

[pixelthis]

WOW do I wish
THAT I COULD
type in ALL CAPS and make very LITTLE sense and just
BLABBER on and ON about THINGS that don't REALLY make sense.
THEN I GUESS I would be
REALLY cool with my 37" LCD that
I HAVE
since I still LIVE WITH my mom. I WILL ALSO
KEEP
TYPING IN this format so THAT
IT'S really HARD TO READ
WHAT I TYPE because there is NO LEFT
RIGHT or CENTER justification, but just RUN-ON sentences
AFTER another. DIDN'T YOU GUYS hear
that Blu-ray WON already?


aND DONT WORRY ABOUT THE RUN-ON SENTENCES, nobody is paying attention
to you anyway