Classe vs. Outlaw

[pegasus]

I am building a new A/V room, 22x24x12.I am going to have a 7.1 system ,however I enjoy two channel stereo daily.My main speakers will be Thiel's new 7.3.I am considering a slightly used Classe SSP 300/ CA-5100 system or Outlaw 990/7700 system.The Classe 300 does not have balanced outputs,the Outlaw 990 does.The Classe 5100 has five 100 watt channels out outs and the Outlaw 7700 has seven channels rated at 200 watts.May main priority is Audiophile sound quality and I am looking for advice from those more experienced than I.

[topspeed]

Did you mean Thiel 3.7? If so, congrats!

Thiels are known as being tough to drive. The 3.7's are 4 ohm nominal, which isn't tough per se, but it will require an amp with decent current, especially if you plug in 4 more Thiels. Five 4 ohm speakers are going to be load for any amplifier.

There are a couple of members that have either tried or owned Outlaw products. They are good products, although I get the impression they aren't the last word in refinement. Every Thiel I've heard (which doesn't include the 3.7) has a tweeter that can get pretty aggressive when pushed. Because of this, I'd choose refinement over wattage and go for the Classe.

You know, Outlaw does have a 30 day return policy and it's likely your dealer does as well. Why not just plug both in and see what sounds best with your speakers? The Thiels are revealing enough that you should be able to tell without too much trouble. That's exactly how I picked my amp and if you're investing this much coin, don't you think it's worth the time to get it right the first time?

Hope this helps.

[drseid]

I am building a new A/V room, 22x24x12.I am going to have a 7.1 system ,however I enjoy two channel stereo daily.My main speakers will be Thiel's new 7.3.I am considering a slightly used Classe SSP 300/ CA-5100 system or Outlaw 990/7700 system.The Classe 300 does not have balanced outputs,the Outlaw 990 does.The Classe 5100 has five 100 watt channels out outs and the Outlaw 7700 has seven channels rated at 200 watts.May main priority is Audiophile sound quality and I am looking for advice from those more experienced than I.

I would say Classe all the way.

I have owned Outlaw gear briefly (although it was the monoblocks and 950 pre/pro) and I found they did not make the grade when paired with my Tylers (that are rather revealing of upstream components) despite my really wanting them to. I think Outlaw is a class outfit (no pun intended) and they offer excellent value and superb customer service, but your Theils will reveal their limitations readily, IMO.

---Dave

[pegasus]

Thank you both for your thoughts.Yes I did mean the 3.7s.I have also considered Cary and Rotel.My local dealer caries Rotel and Classe and I live only 15 miles from the Thiel factory.What can I use as mono blocks to push the Thiels.The Classe 4000 are more than I can afford,at least at this time.The Thiel 3.7 takes less to drive than the Thiel 2.4. The 3.7 is very revealing!Perhaps I could use Outlaw mono blocks to push the rear speakers and live with 100 watts of Classe for the 3.7s.I will have to live with my current speakers for surrounds, M&Ks,I also have an M&K sub.

[topspeed]

You might consider a switching amp from PS Audio, ARC, NuForce, or Bel Canto. Switching amps are load invariant and the models from PSA and ARC have very sweet top ends that would synergize nicely with Thiel. Plus, they'll give you more dynamic punch than you thought possible. A few years ago, a reviewer with Thiel 3.6's really felt the PSA HCA2 "locked in" with the speakers (here is the review (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue9/hca2.htm)). While the newer GCA series isn't as warm as the HCA2, the Trio's are and can be used in monoblock fashion.

Rotel makes very durable, well respected amps. The challenge is going to be the resolving power of the 3.7's, which is likely considerable as they are Jim's flagship. You are going to need a high quality front end because if you don't, the 3.7's will let you know in no uncertain terms. Whereas lesser speakers can sugarcoat an amplifiers grittiness or lack of resolution, chances are yours will simply amplify (excuse the pun) the problem. You've spent the money on the speakers, now you have to complete the chain.

If money is an issue...and when is it not?...consider buying used from audiogon.com or some other site. Amps, particularly ss and switching amps, are excellent pre-owned purchases as there are no moving parts to wear out and many come with transferrable warranties. Audiogon.com is populated by audiophiles, many of which are gear geeks who simply like to switch gear in and out of their rig. You can find toys that are very lightly used.

Hope this helps.

[pegasus]

That was a very interesting review.I have often wondered about PS Audio.I have recently joined the Audiogon forum in hopes of finding two used Classe mono blocks,perhaps the HCA-2 would do just as well.It is amazing how the world opens up while just trying to drive one pair a very demanding speakers!

[drseid]

Thank you both for your thoughts.Yes I did mean the 3.7s.I have also considered Cary and Rotel.My local dealer caries Rotel and Classe and I live only 15 miles from the Thiel factory.What can I use as mono blocks to push the Thiels.The Classe 4000 are more than I can afford,at least at this time.The Thiel 3.7 takes less to drive than the Thiel 2.4. The 3.7 is very revealing!Perhaps I could use Outlaw mono blocks to push the rear speakers and live with 100 watts of Classe for the 3.7s.I will have to live with my current speakers for surrounds, M&Ks,I also have an M&K sub.


Can't recommend Rotel for the Theils as Top mentioned, the 3.7s will reveal their limitations quickly. Maybe Rotel would work on the rear channels (as I use it in my system).

I have had some good experiences with Cary's solid state gear. I love the Cary pre/pro I use, and it excels in 2 channel mode (the primary reason I chose it). The solid state amps are excellent as well, and I have been impressed with them on VonSchweikert and Acoustic Zen gear, but I have not heard them paired with Theil. Could be a good fit though.

As Top mentioned, audiogon.com is a great place to buy used gear at substantial savings. You can particularly find good deals on amps and pre-pros there as new models seem to come out all the time (but the old ones frequently are just as good and can be had for huge discounts).

Good luck,

---Dave

[PeruvianSkies]

I am building a new A/V room, 22x24x12.I am going to have a 7.1 system ,however I enjoy two channel stereo daily.My main speakers will be Thiel's new 7.3.I am considering a slightly used Classe SSP 300/ CA-5100 system or Outlaw 990/7700 system.The Classe 300 does not have balanced outputs,the Outlaw 990 does.The Classe 5100 has five 100 watt channels out outs and the Outlaw 7700 has seven channels rated at 200 watts.May main priority is Audiophile sound quality and I am looking for advice from those more experienced than I.

These two amps are incomparable in many ways. If you are looking for a good bang for the buck, the Outlaw Audio stuff is perfect, but the Classe Audio is pure audiophile heaven. This is not to say that Outlaw makes garbage, they don't. They offer great stuff at a good price, but Classe delivers solid performance and those watt ratings mean nothing in this case because Classe amps are typically very conservatively rated and every one of their amps that I have heard ranging from bottom of the line to the top has always been a beast offering much more than the specs would ever tell you.

[Mr Peabody]

You should also consider Krell and Bryston. Audiogon has quite a variety of Krell and they will push your speakers as hard as you want and just smile.

One of the guys here use Monarchy monoblocks and they have XLR inputs and are digital. I'm not sure what speakers he has though.

The Outlaw may offer a XLR connection but I'd bet they aren't true balanced circuits but simply taps off the RCA route.

To answer your question though, I am in agreement, Outlaw is not quite in the same league with Classe'. Neither is Rotel but Rotel could be used for surrounds while Classe' for mains. I haven't heard one yet but I've heard good things about Rotels digital multichannel amp.

[pegasus]

I did find a PS Audio HCA-2 on Audiogon,seems like I could use it with the Classe SSP 300 to drive the Thiels and the Classe 5100 to drive the other seven channels! I appreciate all the feed back,it helps me to stay inspired.