YouTube Provocation Thread Vol. 1

[bobsticks]

Warning: The following is neither work friendly or family friendly...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFmzOtYHC1k








Discuss

[PeruvianSkies]

Well, this is certainly one expression of why I don't really like rap music. Black rappers truly believe that just about every white person is evil. Also, the guy testifying in the video looks like Omar Epps.

[3-LockBox]

I don't see how anybody can make their money and still be totally miserable. Ask Michael Vick about his gangsta lifestyle, especially his gangsta homies. They sang like birds when the fire was put to them about who was funding the dog fighting. No honor among gangstas. Now Vick's life is ruined. The gangsta ethos has no redeeming value whatsoever. If the cops ain't busting them left and right, they're killing each other. Its not a culture, its an epidemic.

Reminds me of the Jim Cary movie 'Liar Liar', when he couldn't tell a lie, and he plays a lawyer who represents some shady characters. One of his shady clients calls up and says he's in jail and wants some advise, and Cary takes the phone and yells into it, "Stop breakin the law a**hole!"

[PeruvianSkies]

I am constantly amazed at the fake lifestyle that these 'gangsta's' throw into the youths face about how glamourous this lifestyle is, but it's all empty and full of lies, interesting though how most of them are rapping about the lies that they are told, meanwhile they are doing nothing but parading their feelings around about everything that's unfair in life, meanwhile they are living the charade.

[Troy]

I don't get it.

That video is amazingly racist and insulting. It wallows in degradation, dragging an entire culture into a hole. It only exacerbates and perpetuates the problem.

It's just sad.

[basite]

Well, this is certainly one expression of why I don't really like rap music

not all of them hate white people. It's just most of the really popular rappers (who like to call themselves 'gangsta's' and make lot's of money) make songs like those, telling how much they hate everyone else. But there is different rap too, and it can be really good, and have 'messages' in the texts..

these are 2 artists I really like, and they're both 'rappers'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgd4d-lswG8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsihHoyqwWY

the video Bobstick posted however is just sad.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Troy]

Ok basite, I'll give you that these are much more palatable. I liked the Mos Def much more than the skater tune.

But they both suffer from the same old problem I've had with rap/hip hop since day one- it's musically vacant. This repetitive, sampled, one-groove sound just isn't satisfying for me. It's boring. Where's the changes? Where's the bridge?

And another thing I have a problem with is the vocal delivery. The too-fast, clipped and monotonous rapper vocal style is so affected and snotty sounding. All this pretend bad-ass posturing is just as hokey as some screeching hair-band singer.

Rap is about fashion, style and attitude. It's not about musicality.

[MindGoneHaywire]

>Where's the changes? Where's the bridge?

Here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAfrhmIvZ_s

Sadly, the number of examples I could throw out to challenge that has not increased. I'm still big on the rap I listened to in the past, but, with rare exceptions, it's been quite dead for 15 years already.

I will say, though, when you apply an anti-rap towards all of it, we part ways. Some of the stuff that's been done is, in my estimation, quite artful, and musical as well. We've been down this road before. There are more than a few who play instruments. That said, I'd rather have a good rapper who doesn't & whose beats are repetitive but still good than a weak one who has some musical cred because they know how to play an instrument.

[Troy]

The rapification of Troy, I loves it.

That Pharcyde track is the most enjoyable so far and yeah, hey look, a bridge! In a minor key no less.

But I tell ya, there's the other subject which you failed to mention: that jerky, singing style is just awful. It's so forced, like they're trying to shoehorn 25 syllables into a space fit for only 10.

But yeah, I could listen to this at a party without having to leave the room, but I'd never in a million years buy it or choose to play it.

[MindGoneHaywire]

Well, then, you're not a fan of Subterranean Homesick Blues either, now, are you?

[Troy]

Well, then, you're not a fan of Subterranean Homesick Blues either, now, are you?

Yep, it's a mess.

[bobsticks]

Well, this is certainly one expression of why I don't really like rap music. Black rappers truly believe that just about every white person is evil. Also, the guy testifying in the video looks like Omar Epps.


Is that what the video is saying? Recognizing that in the south the euphemisms are directed more towards law enforcement, I suspect there is a broader social statement at work. Frankly, I found it to be the most relevent and revolutionary thing to come out of the gangsta genre since http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFl4h_6ZsQM

[Rich-n-Texas]

I like peanut butter on crackers...

I can't add much more to what 3LB, PS and Troy have already said, and the food reference is to indicate the amount of credibility I'm willing to acknowledge to rap music in general. He's doing nothing more than perpetuating a stereotype.

[3-LockBox]

I don't like most rap, though, there are examples of it I do find entertaining. The rap section in Gorillaz's Feel Good is actually quite catchy, rythmic and isn't a distraction from the rest of the song like other rap sections in other pop music I've heard. I can count on one hand the number of full-on rap songs I know or would choose to hear.

[BradH]

Frankly, I found it to be the most relevent and revolutionary thing to come out of the gangsta genre since http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFl4h_6ZsQM

I found it to be a total waste of time and nothing new. He's an angry clown whereas Ice T was not.


It's so forced, like they're trying to shoehorn 25 syllables into a space fit for only 10.

Rappers are the lead guitarists of their genre. Lead guitarists play "too much", rappers rap "too fast"...who makes these rules anyway?


Where's the changes? Where's the bridge?

You tell me.

[BradH]

Meanwhile...A Tribe Called Quest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qapou-3-fM8

[bobsticks]

Given that the state of modern hip-hop I don't think that "relevant and revolutionary" is the compliment that some of you seem to think. Angry clown? History may well prove that depending on the rest of his work, but this particlar piece is at least topical.

...And the choice of words that illicited so much anger in y'all is no doubt purposeful and representative of the extent to which one must go in a shocking society. Desirable in that it mirrors the severity with which some regard the situation.

I also agree with 3LB. That's not what this song is about.

[bobsticks]

I am constantly amazed at the fake lifestyle that these 'gangsta's' throw into the youths face about how glamourous this lifestyle is, but it's all empty and full of lies, interesting though how most of them are rapping about the lies that they are told, meanwhile they are doing nothing but parading their feelings around about everything that's unfair in life, meanwhile they are living the charade.

Even this is a point that I agree with. Surely you can see the difference between "100 Years" and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0OUzAoW-2U

I'm not arguing that much if not most of what comes out as modern urban music is style above (any) substance. My point is that "100 Years" is commentary albeit using language that alienates some of you. Has anybody listened to the lyrics in this? It's an anti-establishment rally against the inequities of the modern legal system. It's a viable form of protest. Anyone wanna explain why the penalties for crack cocaine are significantly harsher than for powder?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Even this is a point that I agree with. Surely you can see the difference between "100 Years" and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0OUzAoW-2U

I'm not arguing that much if not most of what comes out as modern urban music is style above (any) substance. My point is that "100 Years" is commentary albeit using language that alienates some of you. Has anybody listened to the lyrics in this? It's an anti-establishment rally against the inequities of the modern legal system. It's a viable form of protest. Anyone wanna explain why the penalties for crack cocaine are significantly harsher than for powder?
And by default... why are the penalties for poorer people harsher than for the upper class. That's what you're really asking. And to take it a step further, you're playing the race card.

Doesn't matter. He looses his credibility when he plugs in all the fowl language. Rules of society dictate that you present your views and opinions in a civilized manner if you want to be heard, which that "song" DOES NOT do.

[kexodusc]

I thought the song was a somewhat effective commentary on the lack of progress society has accepted - the repetitive melody, over and over and over again, was a metaphor for the same predictable outcome, the victims caught in a cycle they can't get out of. We all know the story, we all know the ending, but we sit back and listen to the whole song anyway. It's even more effective being the 1000th song on the subject.

This is everyone else's problem but mine.

[bobsticks]

And by default... why are the penalties for poorer people harsher than for the upper class. That's what you're really asking. And to take it a step further, you're playing the race card.

Doesn't matter. He looses his credibility when he plugs in all the fowl language. Rules of society dictate that you present your views and opinions in a civilized manner if you want to be heard, which that "song" DOES NOT do.

Whose society? And evidently the race card doesn't matter when you're messing with the monied elite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0OUzAoW-2U . Notice what color this guy is and the question that brings about such harsh retribution.

[Troy]

My point is that "100 Years" is commentary albeit using language that alienates some of you. Has anybody listened to the lyrics in this? It's an anti-establishment rally against the inequities of the modern legal system. It's a viable form of protest. Anyone wanna explain why the penalties for crack cocaine are significantly harsher than for powder?

Listened to the lyrics? I can't even understand what the guy's saying! The language doesn't offend me, it's the diction and cadence that makes my skin crawl.

I've never been a fan of protest music in the first place. I listen to music to be pleased, amused and thrilled, not to be whined at or preached to. If I want to be reminded of this stuff I'll just pay attention to the news. i don't need to be assaulted by it in my entertainment.

As an artist, don't you dare tell me how I'm supposed to feel. The best art should induce you into thinking without actually being told to. I like art that is more open to interpretation.

You have a complaint about crack bringing a longer sentence than powder? How about you don't do either and then you don't have to worry about stiffer sentences.

[MindGoneHaywire]

>As an artist, don't you dare tell me how I'm supposed to feel.

You say that like it's a G thang.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Whose society? And evidently the race card doesn't matter when you're messing with the monied elite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0OUzAoW-2U . Notice what color this guy is and the question that brings about such harsh retribution.
I'm going to hack into your computer and erase your YouTube bookmark pal! :yesnod:

[Hyfi]

>
Sadly, the number of examples I could throw out to challenge that has not increased.

Dude Remember this? I still spin it once in a while.

Hip Hop For Hyfi

1. Boogie Down Productions – Stop The Violence
2. G. Love & Special Sauce – I76
3. Arrested Development – Tennessee
4. Ice Cube- Us
5. Beasty Boys – Sure Shot
6. The Pharcyde – Otha Fish
7. The Parcyde – Passin` Me By
8. Sublime – Doin` Time
9. Public Enemy – By The Time I Get To Arizona
10. PM Dawn – Reality Used To Be A Friend Of mine
11. PM Dawn – My Own Personal Gravity
12. PM Dawn – The Puppet Show
13. PM Dawn - Soncheynne

And being from Philly and being in these places, how can you not like this:

Katman
65 25 parkline drive
And like always I’m kicking it live
Gotta call the fellas to see if they is with this
Gonna get down with the sounds of big breakfast
Start off the day with some bob marley
Back to the woods for the fresh parlay
Maybe even spark a little nicki j.
Then it’s off to center city in the fastest way
But if you’ve gotta get downtown real quick
The only way to go is i-76
Unless of course you wanna take the scenic view
Then east or west river drive is right for you
But if you ain’t got any time to lose
Put the pedal to the metal for that voyage cruise
So get on down to i-76
Because in 1996 there ain’t no
Tricks in the mix

G. love
Back in 1982
Man it was real cool
And in school
If we got good grades
Our parents would take us to a 76ers game
I got my game and there ain’t no shame
Big shots for mo cheeks
And moses malone
Julius erving called philly his home
Bobby jones, daryl dawkins
Andrew toney sinking threes
Rocky balboa comes from south philly
So if you want to make it
On time to the show

There’s only one route you have to know
Get to fishtown avoid all that jive
I suggest that you drive on i-95
Wanna get downtown but feeling in a fix
Get on the route they call 676
The most expensive expansive
Piece of interstate they ever made
The fellas ain’t famous but
They got good game
Get along 76ers
Charles barkley dissed larry bird
Get along 76ers
Charles barkley dissed larry bird

Smiles
Shh-hoops the middle man
Now disguised as the joy
Valentine smiles to the katman play
Loungin’ leather seats 76 gettin’ nice
Cadillac d.b.l. kristopher pulled the heist
Expressway expression soda pop pressin’
Up another piece baby new year painted session
I’m guessin’ the answer to the question
All the philly fellas livin’ life as a profession
Destined to escape a la spector
Ah wilderness yea prep jetta boy
Friday night rap broncos and pepper shakers
In the city ice dogs love show I the skyscraper
The route it’s i-76
I’m loungin’ otto shoup singin’ davey quickness
Li li of the va li love a ligum everyday
I’m givin’ praise from high hill juice to philly

Katman
But if you’ve gotta get downtown real quick
The only way to go is i-76

Unless of course you wanna take the scenic view
Then east or west river drive is right for you
But if you ain’t got any time to lose
Put the pedal to the metal for that voyage cruise
So get on down to i-76
Because in 1996 there ain’t no
Tricks in the mix

Get along 76ers
Charles barkley dissed larry bird
Get along 76ers
Dr. j! moses malone

Get along 76ers
Jerry stackhouse and iverson

LOL, and the best part of Monday Night Football in Philly was Charles Barkley!!!

[bobsticks]

Listened to the lyrics? I can't even understand what the guy's saying! The language doesn't offend me, it's the diction and cadence that makes my skin crawl.

I've never been a fan of protest music in the first place. I listen to music to be pleased, amused and thrilled, not to be whined at or preached to. If I want to be reminded of this stuff I'll just pay attention to the news. i don't need to be assaulted by it in my entertainment.

As an artist, don't you dare tell me how I'm supposed to feel. The best art should induce you into thinking without actually being told to. I like art that is more open to interpretation.

You have a complaint about crack bringing a longer sentence than powder? How about you don't do either and then you don't have to worry about stiffer sentences.

As with any other musical offering it's perfectly acceptable for anyone to have preferences. I'll try and remember it the next time evryone is waxing poetic about Dylan. It seems to me that between bong-tokes and acid hits he found time to formulate and express some opinions. Sid Vicious, Jello Biafra, Frank Zappa, Ice-T too.

One can assume that a member of the poor and disenfranchised class would prefer to not have the media and modern(white) culture dare to tell him how he's supposed to feel when members of the gentrified ruling elite commit far worse crimes and routinely receive easier sentences. As has been said, "They don't make no Uzis in Harlem".

And we know that this is not completely a race issue either. OJ's on his second crime spree and will probably get away with it.

I don't think anywhere in video there was an advocacy for selling drugs. Some people have fewer options. Some people are brought up in urban desolation.

I have to give credit to those that have posted whether they hold valid the message or not. There have been alot of views to this thread and it seems as if many choose silence when social inequality threatens someone from a different neighborhood. Evidently, P-Skies' would have us believe that his biggest beef is a visceral dislike for Omar Epps...

[BradH]

...the repetitive melody, over and over and over again, was a metaphor for the same predictable outcome, the victims caught in a cycle they can't get out of.

Crack has a higher sentencing rate than powder because of the violence surrounding it. Whether that's justice or not is a debate in itself but using entertainment media (the system) to glamorize the gangsta lifestyle is part of what results in the cycle of victims you're describing. Talk about predictable outcomes.

[MindGoneHaywire]

>using entertainment media (the system) to glamorize the gangsta lifestyle is part of what results in the cycle of victims you're describing.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/153/425443~Scarface-Posters.jpg

[MindGoneHaywire]

It'd be lazy to blame Scarface for why gangsta rap is the way it is but it sure deserves some of the blame. I didn't realize to what extent until I rented the then-new rerelease of it a few years ago & saw all the people being interviewed talking about what an influence it had been on them, including people I thought knew better. It's as though none of them saw the end of the film.

Straight Outta Compton remains the only one in the genre I find listenable.

[kexodusc]

Crack has a higher sentencing rate than powder because of the violence surrounding it. Whether that's justice or not is a debate in itself but using entertainment media (the system) to glamorize the gangsta lifestyle is part of what results in the cycle of victims you're describing. Talk about predictable outcomes.
True enough...seems to me gang-life was a problem before the music caught on big and went mainstream...is the music fuel for the fire or just art immitating life?
And the glamorization (is that even a word?) certainly isn't unique to the gangsta lifestyle...from a society that has made heroes out of The Sopranos, every Quentin Tarantino character, and all the dope smokin', acid dropping, smack shooting rock stars you can name. For some reason there doesn't seem to be the same level of chaos associated with other pop-sub-cultures.

Not so sure this video even glamorized gangsta lifestyle - if anything it referenced inequality, hardship, and all the other stuff that sucks about it.
I wonder who's more to blame - the artists who write the music and continue to glamorize criminal behavior, or the white corporate music-execs who engineer it and make all the money off it?

[MindGoneHaywire]

>fuel for the fire or just art immitating life?

My take is it starting as art imitating life, and that reversed itself within a few years.

>the white corporate music-execs who engineer it and make all the money off it

At this point that's also something that I think was once true but is now a misnomer.

Or would that be a Slosh?

[3-LockBox]

It'd be lazy to blame Scarface for why gangsta rap is the way it is but it sure deserves some of the blame.

Seen the video game?

[bobsticks]

It'd be lazy to blame Scarface for why gangsta rap is the way it is but it sure deserves some of the blame. I didn't realize to what extent until I rented the then-new rerelease of it a few years ago & saw all the people being interviewed talking about what an influence it had been on them, including people I thought knew better. It's as though none of them saw the end of the film.

Straight Outta Compton remains the only one in the genre I find listenable.


The media has a definite role in this, Scarface and many others. While I don't think the video in question glamorizes anything I will be the first one in line to say that there are all-too-numerous examples within the genre which play to young and impressionable minds.

It's an indictment of our entire society's values in as much as the title Get Rich Or Die Tryin' is not a haphazard choice. It shouldn't be surprising that the poorest among us would be the first taken in by the lure of vast wealth, especially when legitimate avenues of advancement are perceived to be closed.

I can tell you right now the d-boys are the ones with the watches, the grills, the "bling-bling" or whatever you want to call money and the fruits of it. As long as a significant portion of females gravitate toward these things young men will be drawn to the allure of power and money by whatever are the quickest means. Just wondering across the keyboard but how many of us have done regrettable(stupid) things in our youth? I'm curious as to what the average age of first incarceration for the urban male is--we know this often leads to recidivism. It seems as if the "L" that some take for the hubris of the teen years is greater than the loss others take.

And as for the penalties being stiffer based on the secondary and terciary levels of violence, how much destruction and agony was wrought by the chairmen of Enron? How many years did they get and in what kind of facility?

Martha Stewart sure seemed uncomfortable on house arrest for the evasion of taxes on an amount that surely exceeded what anyone has ever even fantasized about making on four crack rocks.

And , yes, Straight Outta Compton is a classic. I'd probably throw in O.G. and It Takes A Nation Of Millions as well...

[MindGoneHaywire]

It Takes A Nation Of Millions is not gangsta rap.

[bobsticks]

Correct you are. It's from that era and I suppose goes on auto-inclusion for me as a favorite, but it certainly is more thoughtful and thought-provoking sans violence.

[BradH]

It's an indictment of our entire society's values...

That's why it's total bullsh!t. The entire society is not responsible everytime somebody screws up. And guess what? Hate is not a vision and it's not a strategy. You can, however, make money at it.


And as for the penalties being stiffer based on the secondary and terciary levels of violence, how much destruction and agony was wrought by the chairmen of Enron?

Nobody got shot in cold blood that I'm aware of. Murder is murder, not theft.