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Rich-n-Texas
09-14-2007, 06:45 AM
Shameless plug, but I'm allowed...

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=FFAB6566-E7F2-99DF-3243823E73C83B5A&chanID=sa003

Enjoy!

GMichael
09-14-2007, 07:13 AM
Shameless plug, but I'm allowed...

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=FFAB6566-E7F2-99DF-3243823E73C83B5A&chanID=sa003

Enjoy!

Admit it, you're just baiting Pixy.

GMichael
09-14-2007, 08:52 AM
You da master.

Rich-n-Texas
09-14-2007, 10:55 AM
Yeah well... what goes around comes around. :ihih:

PeruvianSkies
09-15-2007, 11:28 PM
Yeah well... what goes around comes around. :ihih:

That it does my friend, that it does. Kinda like that Rage Against the Machine Song....the year of the boomerang!

pixelthis
09-16-2007, 12:17 AM
DLP probably has a future as a front projector driver, but the future of any "microdisplay"
or rear projector is limited.
JVC recently came out with a LCOS rear projector that, through special optics,
can hang on a wall.
I have seen the future of direct view sets, and they are hanging on the wall, rich on papers
propaganda notwithstanding.
There are about 500 millon TV's in this country and you've sold 12 millon DLP chips
in twenty years.
Does that tell you something?:p

DEVO
09-16-2007, 05:03 AM
As much as I hate to agree w/ pixelthis...I do not believe that lamp engine technologies will survive much longer other than front projection systems. The constant cost cutting of panels is going to make it very difficult for them to survive.

Other issues to think of:
1. Replacement lamps
2. Sweet spots
3. DLP is an outdated tech compared to LCOS (Sony & JVC). DLP needs to do a 3 chip rear projection to compete w/ LCOS (it is still doing wobulation).

Personally, I believe that rear projection has its days marked. Only due to panels coming down in price and front projection systems becoming more and more popular.

Rich-n-Texas
09-16-2007, 03:58 PM
DLP probably has a future as a front projector driver, but the future of any "microdisplay" or rear projector is limited.
Probably? Did you read the part about the DLP Projector in use in 99% of the movie theaters that have gone digital? Worldwide? 4000 theaters.


JVC recently came out with a LCOS rear projector that, through special optics, can hang on a wall.
Special optics? Wow! I wonder what that costs? Hope it's not a mechanical tech!


I have seen the future of direct view sets, and they are hanging on the wall, rich on papers propaganda notwithstanding.
Nostradamus is at it again! Where are the facts to support that? Oh that's right, your personal preferences ARE the facts.


There are about 500 millon TV's in this country and you've sold 12 millon DLP chips in twenty years. Does that tell you something?:p
500 million TV's in this country. Do you work for the Census bureau in your spare time? Does Wal-Mart know you're moonlighting? Show me the stats to back that up.

Yes, having sold 12 million chips in twenty years, to the NSA to develop

optical correlators able to swiftly detect objects, such as tanks and armored personnel carriers, during surveillance
and then, to the film industry, which until recently...

relied on expensive and bulky film reels to deliver movies to theaters. Feature film director and producer George Lucas was a fan of digital film and projection technologies from the start. In fact, the seminal moment for DLP Cinema projector technology came in 1999 when it was publicly demonstrated for the first time on two screens in Los Angeles and New York City marking the release of Lucasfilm's Star Wars: Episode I--The Phantom Menace.
Furthermore...

the technology can be found in about 50 different HDTV models available from a number of different TV manufacturers.
And, by saying...

you've sold 12 millon DLP chips in twenty years. Does that tell you something?
do you mean we've been selling DLP TV's since 1987? Is that what you're saying?

As for the future of DLP technology...

High-definition television and digital cinema just scratch the surface of DLP's capabilities. Doctors are hoping that DLP technology will help them fix on tumors more accurately during radiation therapy to spare surrounding healthy tissue.
I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone, but with DLP technology, going forward a cancer survivor can feel comfortable knowing their quality of life will be better than ever.

...I do not believe that lamp engine technologies will survive much longer other than front projection systems. The constant cost cutting of panels is going to make it very difficult for them to survive. DLP is an outdated tech compared to LCOS (Sony & JVC). DLP needs to do a 3 chip rear projection to compete w/ LCOS (it is still doing wobulation).
Lamp and wheel are being replaced by LED's. They're already on the market. Three chip DLP's are either on their way or are already available. I can check on that though.

DEVO
09-17-2007, 08:41 AM
Lamp and wheel are being replaced by LED's. They're already on the market. Three chip DLP's are either on their way or are already available. I can check on that though.

The LED is not a different chip, it is a longer lasting lamp engine. Without the use of the color wheel. It still uses wobulation!

The only problem w/ a three chip rear projection DLP is $$$. The front projection versions are amazing, however; they cost +15,000 and more. If you put that into a rear projection, it outways the cost of a 60"- plasma or LCD panel.

I don't dislike the tech. it is unfortunetly starting to see it's end...

GMichael
09-17-2007, 08:49 AM
I have seen the future

Dr Emmett Lathrop Brown? Is that you?

Rich-n-Texas
09-17-2007, 09:24 AM
The LED is not a different chip, it is a longer lasting lamp engine. Without the use of the color wheel. It still uses wobulation!

The only problem w/ a three chip rear projection DLP is $$$. The front projection versions are amazing, however; they cost +15,000 and more. If you put that into a rear projection, it outways the cost of a 60"- plasma or LCD panel.

I don't dislike the tech. it is unfortunetly starting to see it's end...
The point I was trying to make DEVO was directed at pixe. DLP technology started as an innovation for the defense department, evolved to create innovation in the home entertainment industry and will soon have an impact in the medical community. IN THE BIG PICTURE, I'd say Texas Instruments is having a positive impact on the lives of many people, whatever their walk of life.

DEVO
09-17-2007, 11:03 AM
Ohhhhhh! I get it!!!!!!!!!!!! DLP is the BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rich-n-Texas
09-17-2007, 11:33 AM
Well, when you work for the company that employs the inventor, a certain amount of loyalty develops.

Take some time to search through some of his posts and you'll see why I sometimes take a defensive posture.

pixelthis
09-17-2007, 11:38 PM
Well, when you work for the company that employs the inventor, a certain amount of loyalty develops.

Take some time to search through some of his posts and you'll see why I sometimes take a defensive posture.
maybe if you actualy read some of my posts you would'nt be so defensive.
The set JVC builds that hangs on the wall is just to prove my point, that a bulky rear projection TVs' days are numbered. Being able to hang a set on the wall is so important
that JVC went to a great deal of pain to build a LCOS set that hangs on the wall.
As for medical use I work in a hospital, and in the ED they use xray ct for quick looks at patients, these are networked to ED doctors who veiw them on high resolution LCD
DISPLAYS.
MY DEPT recently got some hand me down Sony crt monitors from endoscophy.
They are being replaced by, you guessed it, LCD monitors.
But dont worry rich, theres still a strong market for front projectors, you just have to get the price down a bit so a three chip model can be more affordable.
That ^&%#@ color wheel simply has to go!
Did'nt your engineers ever hear of the KISS rule?
The first rule of good design:1:

Rich-n-Texas
09-18-2007, 05:43 AM
Why would I not get defensive when someone constantly bad-mouths my employer every time I bring up our technology? And now you're telling me TI's DLP has no future in the medical arena? Is that what you're saying? Keep it simple? No such thing in the semiconductor industry dude.

GMichael
09-18-2007, 05:51 AM
Why would I not get defensive when someone constantly bad-mouths my employer every time I bring up our technology? And now you're telling me TI's DLP has no future in the medical arena? Is that what you're saying? Keep it simple? No such thing in the semiconductor industry dude.

Are you saying that you can't build semiconductors out of twigs and branches?
I'll be right back. I've got to call my buddies at IBM Research and tell them the bad news.

DEVO
09-18-2007, 06:05 AM
I just got out of sales in the higher end market...and unfortunetly the rear projection market has fallen. Now for pix...he has his own issues to work out! Whether the hospital will let him out on weekends or not, I don't know?

I hated to leave, but my wallet was cryin'...

PeruvianSkies
09-18-2007, 10:34 PM
I missed this flame-session! Is there still some fire left ??? Or did GM use all the wood to build his new set.

Rich-n-Texas
09-19-2007, 04:15 AM
Don't worry, you'll get your chance. I'm waiting for pixe to answer my latest questions...

pixelthis
09-26-2007, 01:30 AM
Why would I not get defensive when someone constantly bad-mouths my employer every time I bring up our technology? And now you're telling me TI's DLP has no future in the medical arena? Is that what you're saying? Keep it simple? No such thing in the semiconductor industry dude.
I'm saying that NO type of rear projector has any type of future.
Doesn't mean that front projectors are in trouble. Talk to your marketing dept, they are probably concentrating on that area.
And maybe DLP does have some medicinal uses, but they are ancillary, I'M SURE.
As for the KISS principle, DLP chips have hundreds of thousands of tiny mirrors on hundreds of thousands of tiny hinghes, and still needs a color wheel spinning
really fast to get color.
AND prizms.
AND a mercury bulb that lasts a couple of years at most.
Gotta be a better way, Rich.
Like a LCD high rez flat panel run by a cool (or cooler) flourescent, with a projected life of 20,000 hours, at least.
Thats what the market is saying, at least.
BUT A LOT HAS TO DO WITH my BIAS, I don't like electrostatics for the same reasons.
Just too complicated when something else out there is simpler, and does the job just as well, if not better.
Not to mention that its a lot easier to place your center speaker when your set is up out of the way:1:

Rich-n-Texas
09-26-2007, 03:44 AM
Any idea how many millions of gates there are in that eMachines computer's microprocessor you're dickin' with pix? Or in that Visio's microprocessor? Oh wait, yeah, Visio's are KISS technology huh? :rolleyes:

pixelthis
09-26-2007, 11:45 PM
Any idea how many millions of gates there are in that eMachines computer's microprocessor you're dickin' with pix? Or in that Visio's microprocessor? Oh wait, yeah, Visio's are KISS technology huh? :rolleyes:
Yeah, mankinds first foray into nano-tech, and all SOLID STATE.
Do you know how hard it was to keep a TV tuned with those mechanical "clunk"
tuners? And they would get loose, and you'd have to tape the channel knob to get it to stay in tune.
Nothing mechanical will last as long as solid state, the fewer moving parts you have
in something the more reliable it will be.
And my computer is a home-brew job, thank you very much.
And VIZIO LCD, like any LCD, is kiss friendly.
A color panel over a lcd panel, all backlit by a flouresent, its rated life is 20,000 hours,
put another bulb in and run it another 20,000 hours.
Its easy for machines to assemble, hence low cost, and its made outta dirt, (silicon)
hence low cost.
I had a little Casio 2.5 screen, dropped pixels out the kazoo, but I watched it one night
and thought, "this is the future"
I bet if I dug that little sucker out it would STILL work.
you know Rich, they had a system in the twenties that showed simple clips of motion, used a lamp and a spinning wheel, faded fast as the CRT took hold.
The only thing detractors have is some mysterious element called "PQ"
I think its funny that a standard of HT, mainly that a set never looks decent in a store, has been thrown out.
Turn down everything to fifty percent, like you'd do with a CRT, including the backlight(turn it back up during bright light conditions) put your main source of illumination behind the set,
even though there is practically no glare, and you get a great picture.
And like I tell friends when the gas leaks outta their plasma (usually before the big game)
THE BEST "PQ IS ACTUALLY HAVING A PICTURE.
Which you wont have when that "torch" of a mercury bulb dies a painfull death after a very short life:1:

Rich-n-Texas
09-27-2007, 07:47 AM
Yeah, mankinds first foray into nano-tech, and all SOLID STATE.
Do you know how hard it was to keep a TV tuned with those mechanical "clunk"
tuners? And they would get loose, and you'd have to tape the channel knob to get it to stay in tune.
So you're using 1940's - 50's technology with 21st century technology as your analogy? That's weak.


Nothing mechanical will last as long as solid state, the fewer moving parts you have
in something the more reliable it will be.
I don't dispute that fact. Like I said loooong time ago, DLP tech is evolving. It was a good compromise from a pricing standpoint when introduced. It's a well known fact that it hit the market at the right time, established excellent market share, and now that it no longer has mechanical parts, except maybe for some cooling fans, it will once again please the masses. And yes, we also have projectors that will keep us well established in the home and commercial theater marketplace.

And my computer is a home-brew job, thank you very much.
So's mine. I'll bet it's faster than yours too. :lol:

And VIZIO LCD, like any LCD, is kiss friendly.
A color panel over a lcd panel, all backlit by a flouresent, its rated life is 20,000 hours,
put another bulb in and run it another 20,000 hours.
LED DLP's. Half-life = 60,000 hrs I believe.

Its easy for machines to assemble, hence low cost, and its made outta dirt, (silicon)
hence low cost.
That would be sand, not dirt.

I had a little Casio 2.5 screen, dropped pixels out the kazoo, but I watched it one night
and thought, "this is the future"
I bet if I dug that little sucker out it would STILL work.
Did it have picture-in-picture? Here are some of the convenience features of my TV:

Split screen
Interactive TV Guide updated nightly

ClearThought® Easy Connect Auto Input
Sensing


Digital Cable Ready (CableCARD™)


NetCommand

® Home Network Control
System


Memory Card Reader


DVI-I Input for Computer Video


That and much more included in a 57" HDTV for < $2K back in March




you know Rich, they had a system in the twenties that showed simple clips of motion, used a lamp and a spinning wheel, faded fast as the CRT took hold.
The only thing detractors have is some mysterious element called "PQ"
So you're using 1920's technology with 21st century technology as your analogy? That's weaker.

I think its funny that a standard of HT, mainly that a set never looks decent in a store, has been thrown out.
Turn down everything to fifty percent, like you'd do with a CRT, including the backlight(turn it back up during bright light conditions) put your main source of illumination behind the set,
even though there is practically no glare, and you get a great picture.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... IMO

And like I tell friends when the gas leaks outta their plasma (usually before the big game)
THE BEST "PQ IS ACTUALLY HAVING A PICTURE.
I'll bet that sits real well with your friends, just like your opinion based facts sit real well here.

Which you wont have when that "torch" of a mercury bulb dies a painfull death
Bulbs don't feel pain. :rolleyes:

...after a very short life
Very subjective statement.

:1:
Why do you keep using that one? :mad2:

Rich-n-Texas
09-27-2007, 07:58 AM
As for medical use I work in a hospital, and in the ED they use xray ct for quick looks at patients, these are networked to ED doctors who veiw them on high resolution LCD
DISPLAYS.
MY DEPT recently got some hand me down Sony crt monitors from endoscophy.
They are being replaced by, you guessed it, LCD monitors.
Now we know that you don't really work for a hospital, just in a hospital. Again, I got the impression you were a Neurosurgeon.

You're DEPT is Building Security right? A seperate organization right? That explains why you got hand-me-downs. The upcoming technology will be too valuable to the medical community to be handed down to building security. Does that make any sense?

PeruvianSkies
09-27-2007, 08:56 PM
Now we know that you don't really work for a hospital, just in a hospital. Again, I got the impression you were a Neurosurgeon.

You're DEPT is Building Security right? A seperate organization right? That explains why you got hand-me-downs. The upcoming technology will be too valuable to the medical community to be handed down to building security. Does that make any sense?

I wonder if Pix's real name happens to be Travis Bickle? Hmmm.

Question: am I allowed to hijack a thread that has already been semi-hijacked by the original poster?

pixelthis
09-27-2007, 11:16 PM
Now we know that you don't really work for a hospital, just in a hospital. Again, I got the impression you were a Neurosurgeon.

You're DEPT is Building Security right? A seperate organization right? That explains why you got hand-me-downs. The upcoming technology will be too valuable to the medical community to be handed down to building security. Does that make any sense?
Why are you so obsessed with my occupation? Lets just say I WASTED a few decades in public service so that desk jockeys with delusions of having a real job could step
outta the house without some mad max type cutting your panties off with a switchblade.
And police and security 101, the people in the building are more important than THE
building.
As for DLP, none of the "features" you stated in yours is missing from mine, the important ones at least.
Cablecard? What a joke. A cablebox with DVR and HD is the way to go, cablecard is limited and never has worked very well.
And most of the other "features" are folderall dependent on using mitsu stuff.
And I have a VGA myself, using my 37in "desktop" as I speak.

But the biggest barrier to DLP is the WAF factor. Women think flat panels hanging on walls look cool. Flat panels are the first device in HT history that wives have directed their husbands to buy, guys who havent had a decent TV in years because they were too bulky now have hugh sets, thanks to the coolness factor.
And my set has a bigger "option" than all of your stuff combined, I WONT SPEND
1,000 TO 1,500 in ten years of use on bulbs, and most DLP still have bulbs.
Look at who you're selling to, a small slice of the market thats willing to put up with a larger set for a larger picture, and a lot of THEM are going SXRD.
A nd the ones who arent are going front projection.
AND THE "LOW COST" OF dlp? Give me a break! The infamous color wheel is there because the price for a DLP chip for each color is prohibitively high
One final thought about these "features" you talk about. Most are dependent on using the tuner, most who are really into HT are going to use cable or sat.
My set has atsc and ntsc tuners, AND PIP, and I NEVER USE ANY BECAUSE,
1. My cablebox and dvd are my main sources, and
2. In case you haven't noticed PIP doesn't work that well with HDTV
i had a mitsu once, my last standard def was a 60in mitsu , with basically the same "guide", put out by RCA, downloaded over cable to your set. Nice.
And the guide from a motorola cablebox blows its doors off.
But don't fret rich in your own mind. WHEN YOU CASH IN THAT "HUGE" 401K
and can't buy a loaf of bread with it, you can always live in that huge tv of yours.
THATS what I call thinkin for the future!:1:

PeruvianSkies
09-27-2007, 11:22 PM
Why are you so obsessed with my occupation? Lets just say I WASTED a few decades in public service so that desk jockeys with delusions of having a real job could step
outta the house without some mad max type cutting your panties off with a switchblade.
And police and security 101, the people in the building are more important than THE
building.
As for DLP, none of the "features" you stated in yours is missing from mine, the important ones at least.
Cablecard? What a joke. A cablebox with DVR and HD is the way to go, cablecard is limited and never has worked very well.
And most of the other "features" are folderall dependent on using mitsu stuff.
And I have a VGA myself, using my 37in "desktop" as I speak.

But the biggest barrier to DLP is the WAF factor. Women think flat panels hanging on walls look cool. Flat panels are the first device in HT history that wives have directed their husbands to buy, guys who havent had a decent TV in years because they were too bulky now have hugh sets, thanks to the coolness factor.
And my set has a bigger "option" than all of your stuff combined, I WONT SPEND
1,000 TO 1,500 in ten years of use on bulbs, and most DLP still have bulbs.
Look at who you're selling to, a small slice of the market thats willing to put up with a larger set for a larger picture, and a lot of THEM are going SXRD.
A nd the ones who arent are going front projection.
AND THE "LOW COST" OF dlp? Give me a break! The infamous color wheel is there because the price for a DLP chip for each color is prohibitively high
One final thought about these "features" you talk about. Most are dependent on using the tuner, most who are really into HT are going to use cable or sat.
My set has atsc and ntsc tuners, AND PIP, and I NEVER USE ANY BECAUSE,
1. My cablebox and dvd are my main sources, and
2. In case you haven't noticed PIP doesn't work that well with HDTV
i had a mitsu once, my last standard def was a 60in mitsu , with basically the same "guide", put out by RCA, downloaded over cable to your set. Nice.
And the guide from a motorola cablebox blows its doors off.
But don't fret rich in your own mind. WHEN YOU CASH IN THAT "HUGH" 401K
and can't buy a loaf of bread with it, you can always live in that hugh tv of yours.
THATS what I call thinkin for the future!:1:


What's a "HUGH"...? You used it twice in that thread...never heard the term before aside from someone's name.

pixelthis
09-27-2007, 11:30 PM
These wireless keyboards always get problematic when the batteries get low:cryin:

DEVO
09-28-2007, 05:28 AM
Oh my God! Pix...You are such an idiot!!!! At the beginning of this thread I was backing you up, but after reading your continuous babble I retract.
I guess I don't get enough time to read your garbage...and that is why you get beat on by everyone.
You need to either get laid...or take a chill pill...or both!
But you need to do something!!!

If you told me that my plasma was going to leak. I would take a quick look at you piece of SH*T Vizio and laugh! Especially with it's flat colors and grainy picture!

Rich-n-Texas
09-28-2007, 04:44 PM
I wonder if Pix's real name happens to be Travis Bickle? Hmmm.

Question: am I allowed to hijack a thread that has already been semi-hijacked by the original poster?
Yes, but be careful. A sociopath with a gun is a very dangerous individual.

jim goulding
09-30-2007, 05:58 PM
For a dude about to jump into hi def from a good but relatively poor resolution CRT TV, this is highly fascinating conversation. I'm pretty mistrustful of plasma and DLP technology for trouble free long term satisfaction but I do see motion artifacts on LCD and LCOS models in the store. I think that plasma has the best color. If LCD could do as well regards color and motion, I could be a customer. Anyone, that includes you, Pix, have the latest information about improvements in these areas using which manufacturers/models? I don't care to hang it on a wall but I would like to view it somewhat off axis without loss of light. Appreciate it. Really.

PeruvianSkies
09-30-2007, 07:47 PM
Oh my God! Pix...You are such an idiot!!!! At the beginning of this thread I was backing you up, but after reading your continuous babble I retract.
I guess I don't get enough time to read your garbage...and that is why you get beat on by everyone.
You need to either get laid...or take a chill pill...or both!
But you need to do something!!!

If you told me that my plasma was going to leak. I would take a quick look at you piece of SH*T Vizio and laugh! Especially with it's flat colors and grainy picture!

and you just realized this??? lol.

pixelthis
10-01-2007, 12:35 AM
Oh my God! Pix...You are such an idiot!!!! At the beginning of this thread I was backing you up, but after reading your continuous babble I retract.
I guess I don't get enough time to read your garbage...and that is why you get beat on by everyone.
You need to either get laid...or take a chill pill...or both!
But you need to do something!!!

If you told me that my plasma was going to leak. I would take a quick look at you piece of SH*T Vizio and laugh! Especially with it's flat colors and grainy picture!


yeah, you're really the one to be referring to someone else as an "idiot".
GAS LEAKAGE is a bit of a problem with plasmas, not to mention having a huge piece of glass hanging on your wall, and from your post it scares me to think that maybe you mounted it. Too bad for the children and small dogs in your house:sad:

pixelthis
10-01-2007, 12:44 AM
For a dude about to jump into hi def from a good but relatively poor resolution CRT TV, this is highly fascinating conversation. I'm pretty mistrustful of plasma and DLP technology for trouble free long term satisfaction but I do see motion artifacts on LCD and LCOS models in the store. I think that plasma has the best color. If LCD could do as well regards color and motion, I could be a customer. Anyone, that includes you, Pix, have the latest information about improvements in these areas using which manufacturers/models? I don't care to hang it on a wall but I would like to view it somewhat off axis without loss of light. Appreciate it. Really.

LCD is the way to go, really. The only advantage Plasma has is a slightly better black level,
and if your lcd is set up right even that is small.
In real world conditions LCD has advantages over all formats, thats why they sell better.
You can read while watching, there is practically no glare.
the lifespan is about 20 years, a Plasma ten, and a DLP needs a 200$+ bulb every few years, and is bulky. ALSO dlp HAS A LOAD OF MOVING PARTS, LIKE A COLOR
WHEEL, and other things that will break.
Most lcd now have fast response times, eliminating lag, and the 1080p models
look quite spectacular.
Theres a bit of a bias against LCD on this site, something I haven't seen on other sites,
its snobbery really, those who don't like LCD simpoly don't want something that the great unwashed is snapping up in droves.
Well, in this case the great unwashed is right, a LCD set is really the best way to go:1:
Its like I keep saying, the best picture quality is HAVING A PICTURE

DEVO
10-01-2007, 04:54 AM
No the reason they sell better is because small panels are not existant in plasmas! Plasmas are only available in 42" and bigger, LCD's are available from 10" all the way to 70". Go figure!

GMichael
10-01-2007, 05:17 AM
LCD is the way to go, really. The only advantage Plasma has is a slightly better black level,
and if your lcd is set up right even that is small.
In real world conditions LCD has advantages over all formats, thats why they sell better.
You can read while watching, there is practically no glare.
the lifespan is about 20 years, a Plasma ten, and a DLP needs a 200$+ bulb every few years, and is bulky. ALSO dlp HAS A LOAD OF MOVING PARTS, LIKE A COLOR
WHEEL, and other things that will break.
Most lcd now have fast response times, eliminating lag, and the 1080p models
look quite spectacular.
Theres a bit of a bias against LCD on this site, something I haven't seen on other sites,
its snobbery really, those who don't like LCD simpoly don't want something that the great unwashed is snapping up in droves.
Well, in this case the great unwashed is right, a LCD set is really the best way to go:1:
Its like I keep saying, the best picture quality is HAVING A PICTURE

Actually, no one here is really "ani-LCD." All we did was point out that LCD is not THE best. (Although, a few here did throw in a few personal stabs along the way) They do have their advantages, and others have theirs as well.
I have a hard time getting behind the, "we sell more, so we are the best" theory. That would make Bose the best audio money could buy. No need to even go down that road. Plasma has a MUCH better black level. Also better color saturation. Better off angle viewing. LCD is brighter, less glare, uses less energy, weighs less than half. Getting better all the time.
Which one is best for you, is really up to you. But what's best for me, or others, is up to us. It helps more if we give just the facts and keep the personal biases to ourselves. (good luck with that though)

pixelthis
10-02-2007, 12:14 AM
Actually, no one here is really "ani-LCD." All we did was point out that LCD is not THE best. (Although, a few here did throw in a few personal stabs along the way) They do have their advantages, and others have theirs as well.
I have a hard time getting behind the, "we sell more, so we are the best" theory. That would make Bose the best audio money could buy. No need to even go down that road. Plasma has a MUCH better black level. Also better color saturation. Better off angle viewing. LCD is brighter, less glare, uses less energy, weighs less than half. Getting better all the time.
Which one is best for you, is really up to you. But what's best for me, or others, is up to us. It helps more if we give just the facts and keep the personal biases to ourselves. (good luck with that though)
Not really. What I say about various displays is a fact, not a personal bias.
You see, heres the problem, anyone can look at how things are going and offer an opinion.
And its easy to see that LCD is going to be the main format in the future.
Nothing wrong with DLP, except that it is just not a mass market form factor.
I actually thought about buying one once, a cheap way to get a big screen.
And changing bulbs, and the tough regimen you have to maintain to prolong the life of one, nothing to someone who has had turntables his entire life.
but a Samsung DLP 46 in is selling for 800$ at circuit city!
This form factor can't be beating the world if they are so cheap.
DLP has ONE part of the market, HT types who are broke and DLP is the only way they can get a big screen at a reasonable price.
Thats it.
FOR everybody else wall mounting, no glare, long life, and a decent if not perfect picture
will tilt the buyer in favor of LCD.
dlp AND pLASMA aren't that great in black level either you know.
I remember when Plasma came out, a major complaint was the lack of black level,
same with DLP. LCD detractors use this to cut down the display.
But the truth? The truth is that the difference between plasma, DLP, and LCD is slight
to most, in which case it comes down to convience, price, and value.
Thats the real world. Even if your old lady doesn't think wall mounted TV is "cool"
she can put a curtain over it when you're not watching.
AS FOR pLASMA , they run hotter , are heavier, made out of a LOT of glass, and the gas does leak out every once in awhile. I COULD WALLMOUNT A lcd, be scared to try with a plasma.
But does it mean that I "prefer" LCD? NO, just stating the facts as I see them.
People come to this site for help in choosing a TV among other things.
Not a bunch of wishy washing "on the other hand" comments.
I just offer things I have learned over the years, people can disreguard them or pay attention, I don't really care, but what I post you will find somewhere else, usually.:1:

DEVO
10-02-2007, 05:08 AM
Actually, no one here is really "ani-LCD." All we did was point out that LCD is not THE best. (Although, a few here did throw in a few personal stabs along the way) They do have their advantages, and others have theirs as well.
I have a hard time getting behind the, "we sell more, so we are the best" theory. That would make Bose the best audio money could buy. No need to even go down that road. Plasma has a MUCH better black level. Also better color saturation. Better off angle viewing. LCD is brighter, less glare, uses less energy, weighs less than half. Getting better all the time.
Which one is best for you, is really up to you. But what's best for me, or others, is up to us. It helps more if we give just the facts and keep the personal biases to ourselves. (good luck with that though)

Yes, LCD has come a very long way, and I really don't have a problem w/ any technology. So long as it is built w/ good parts for the customer. It has always been a to each his own...:cornut:

GMichael
10-02-2007, 05:31 AM
Not really. What I say about various displays is a fact, not a personal bias.

People come to this site for help in choosing a TV among other things.
Not a bunch of wishy washing "on the other hand" comments.
I just offer things I have learned over the years, people can disreguard them or pay attention, I don't really care, but what I post you will find somewhere else, usually.:1:

LCD's are lighter = fact
LCD's use less energy = fact
LCD's are the best = personal bias
LCD's are the future = personal bias/guess

I really enjoy your posts = fact
But they are filled with personal bias = fact

PeruvianSkies
10-02-2007, 06:52 AM
LCD's are lighter = fact
LCD's use less energy = fact
LCD's are the best = personal bias
LCD's are the future = personal bias/guess

I really enjoy your posts = fact
But they are filled with personal bias = fact

Pixelthis thinks he knows everything = fact
Pixelthis actually knows nothing = opinion
LCD's are the future according to Pix = fact
LCD's actually ARE the future = opinion
Pixelthis prefers LCD over DLP and Plasma = fact, based on opinion
LCD's are better than DLP or Plasma = opinion based on facts.

pixelthis
10-02-2007, 11:49 PM
Pixelthis thinks he knows everything = fact

Nope, but he does know more than YOU

Pixelthis actually knows nothing = opinion

a WRONG ONE

LCD's are the future according to Pix = fact

Not the future according to ME, the future according to market trends, GET USED TO IT
Heres another "fact" you can label as opinion , CRT will be extinct in five years except as 20 $ black & white 5 inchers at drugstores.
Call THAT opinion, but its STILL gonna happen
LCD's actually ARE the future = opinion

THEY ARE the immediate future, until something else, like organic LED, comes along
my first TV was 19in crt, a good size back then, 26in was the largest direct view you could get, it took a decade before 32in was common.
A year and a half ago a 32in LCD was a 1000$, today a Olevia at office max sells for 499$
When high quality 32in LCD is flying off of the shelves at 300$ maybe you will get this into that hard head of yours, for most the picture is fine, and the price can't be beat

Pixelthis prefers LCD over DLP and Plasma = fact, based on opinion

I don't prefer any form of display over another, doesn't change the fact that producing TV sets is expensive, and they won't keep making them if they can't sell them.
AND right now LCD is the best form factor for me, unfortunately for DLP and PLASMA
that is a choice that more and more are making, one thing for sure, CRT is dead

LCD's are better than DLP or Plasma = opinion based on facts.
Depends on what your citeria is.
MORE RELIABLE? yep.

MORE COST EFFECTIVE? yep, DLP is cheaper initally, but more expensive because it will take a 1000$ worth of bulbs to keep it going ten years, a LCD will last twenty, a lifetime if you change backlights. PLASMA WILL LAST TEN YEARS AND still cost more than LCD

PICTURE QUALITY? even. Show three sets, one of each type to a layman, he will have a hard time telling the difference.
If you watch a lot of sports you might notice a little lag on an LCD every once in awhile,
not often.
And while black level suffers from the backlight always being on, that is also a problem with DLP and plasma.
DLP "fixed" this problem somewhat with an iris in front of the light source, light goes down
when scenes get dark. But LCD now has backlight control also, and with a little adjustment the black level is fine. As good as CRT? No, but what is?

You can call it my "opinion" as much as you want, wont keep it from coming to pass.
When I was younger older folks always had "opinions" also, I hardly ever paid attention.
It took me some time to realize that these "opinions" were based on hard won knowledge.
Maybe you'll figure that out someday, but I doubt it:1: