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ggking7
09-03-2007, 03:11 PM
My Yamaha receiver has a built-in equalizer and I have it dialed in just right for the CD signal. I'm about to delve into the world of vinyl, and if I use the phono inputs for a turntable, am I likely to find that there is a different set of optimum equalizer levels for that?

If so, there is a Sony turntable I'm looking at:

http://www.computers4sure.com/product.asp?productID=3174982

with a built-in preamp so I could connect it to the Yamaha via the auxiliary inputs. Would connecting via the auxiliary inputs mean I have a better chance of a single equalizer setting working well for both sources?

Mr Peabody
09-03-2007, 05:10 PM
The CD and turntable will almost assuredly have a different response and therefore you'd probably want a different EQ curve. But your receiver should have memory settings to store your various EQ settings. I'm not positive on that but most digital EQ's offer that option. If your EQ has manual levers you could maybe write down the settings but setting it each time would be a inconvenience.

ggking7
09-03-2007, 05:26 PM
Yeah they're manual. Do you think going through the turntable's preamp and the receiver's aux input would make for a more similar curve to the CD than just going through the receiver's phono input without the preamp? I can't adjust those levers each time I switch sources.

Mr Peabody
09-03-2007, 05:45 PM
I think either way will differ from the CD. But my guess would be the internal phono board would be closer because it was made by the same manufacturer, for the same receiver. Yamaha would be trying to achieve a certain sound for their receiver so each sum would have characteristics to give the total, receiver, that goal.

Cartridges will vary a great deal in response and sound quality as well. It's not so much the input you use, it's more each source will generally vary in response. If you ever switched CD players, you'd have to adjust your EQ for that.

If your EQ has a "defeat", you could bypass the EQ when using turntable and hopefully the sound would be still pleasing for you.

I'll have to see what that Sony costs for suggestions, if you use the internal phono board, you should look for a better turntable.

Mr Peabody
09-03-2007, 05:55 PM
Well, forget any suggestions in that price range. If you don't have records already, just wait until you can get a decent turntable. I'm afraid you will buy this thing and get disappointed.

Rega, Pro Ject and Music Hall all offer entry level tables with a cartridge for around $299.00. You could try scoring something on the used market for cheaper. I don't know how good they are but Audio Teknika offer a table for around $169.00. Maybe some one else will have more suggestions. I've seen some of these Sony entry level tables that you can't even change the cartridge on, they are basically throw aways if something gets worn out or broke.

ggking7
09-03-2007, 06:51 PM
What you're saying about the internal preamp makes sense. No defeat on the EQ unfortunately.

With the Sony, the Amazon reviews say it sounds really good for an entry level table, and the audioreview.com reviews aren't bad either:

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/analog-sources/turntables/sony/PRD_126679_1597crx.aspx

I'm also considering one of these (although not this one) from a guy I'm in contact with:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280141579653

It's $50 shipped. Is a late-70s turntable like that bound to produce better sound than the Sony? It does have variable tracking force which the Sony lacks. People seem to say the Sony's tonearm is too heavy.

Edit:

Should I bring this discussion to the analog forum?

Mr Peabody
09-03-2007, 07:46 PM
If the reviews are good the Sony is worth a try. I'm wondering if the one from Ebay isn't a unit with built in amplifier where you can hook speakers up to it. I couldn't get much info, it said bidding was closed. The seller called it a record player.

ggking7
09-03-2007, 08:18 PM
Nah, that's a turntable. I'm in contact with the seller of another one of those. That eBay listing is just for reference.

As for the equalization issue, I think I may have a solution. I said I'm using a CD player now but that's not exactly true. I'm using a computer hooked up to the receiver. The computer plays CDs, DVDs, Internet radio, etc. The sound card is a Sound Blaster Live. Couldn't I set the Yamaha receiver's equalizer to compensate for the whole system and turntable, and then use some kind of equalizer program on the computer to de-compensate for the turntable and compensate for the computer? It seems like as long as the computer equalization is done in the digital realm before it hits the sound card, it won't degrade the sound.

Mr Peabody
09-04-2007, 04:44 PM
That's a lot of equalization going on. It could possibly work, I've never connected computer and stereo yet. My question would then be, why get a turntable at all. Most people who get a turntable are after the analog sound that a turntable can provide. If you go running it into a computer and equalizing it, I don't think the sound is going to quite be the same. So unless you have an album collection already and just want to hear the tunes, I'd say, why bother. If you do have albums already, you can burn your favs to your computer and play them the same way as your digital files. This may eliminate your problem as well.

ggking7
09-04-2007, 05:37 PM
Hi Mr. P,

I'm not explaining this right.

The turntable will connect to the receiver via phono inputs. The computer connects to the receiver via aux inputs. The receiver as an equalizer built into it. I will tune that equalizer to be perfect for the turntable source. Those levels won't be perfect for the computer source, but I can use a software equalizer within the computer to tune that. The computer signal will still have to go through the receiver's equalizer, but that can be compensated for with the computer's software equalizer. I think that should be perfect.

Do you see what I mean?

Luvin Da Blues
09-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Hi Mr. P,

I'm not explaining this right.

The turntable will connect to the receiver via phono inputs. The computer connects to the receiver via aux inputs. The receiver as an equalizer built into it. I will tune that equalizer to be perfect for the turntable source. Those levels won't be perfect for the computer source, but I can use a software equalizer within the computer to tune that. The computer signal will still have to go through the receiver's equalizer, but that can be compensated for with the computer's software equalizer. I think that should be perfect.

Do you see what I mean?


You want to "de-equalize" with the software??? Good Luck. I would just leave everything flat and play with speaker placement. BTW, EQing is for room correction not for source correction although you could do it I 'spose.

Mr Peabody
09-04-2007, 06:09 PM
I got ya, that set up configuration could work. I can't say anything about the computer EQ though, I just haven't done anything in that area.

ggking7
09-05-2007, 10:39 AM
Luvin Da Blues,

What's the problem? Why wouldn't that work?

Luvin Da Blues
09-05-2007, 12:54 PM
Luvin Da Blues,

What's the problem? Why wouldn't that work?


Let me ask a few questions first,

1) Are you actually EQing or just using this for glorified tone controls?

2) How many bands does each EQ have?

3) What is your experience with proper EQing and are you using a spectrum analyzer and/or test tones and a meter..or you doing this by ear?

Cheers

LDB

jim1961
09-05-2007, 03:23 PM
To speak generally here, I try to listen to most music w/o EQ. But when the situation demands it, I find no one setting fits all material, or all cd's, or all records (when i had such). So when you say that you have one setting that works on all cd's, im a bit confused about what your using it for, unless this is simply room correction.

ggking7
09-06-2007, 01:15 PM
It seems to me an equalizer can compensate for "hills and valleys" in the sound that hits my brain. It shouldn't matter whether a hill or valley was created by a source, interconnect, preamp, amp, speaker wire, speaker, room, or hearing deficiency. Surely certain recordings can introduce their own hills and valleys, but I'm interested in compensating for the chain above.

I've set my receiver's 7-band equalizer by ear over a period of weeks and I'm very happy with it. To me, it sounds like a major upgrade to the sound system.

What I'm trying to determine is if it would work to set the equalizer on my receiver entirely for the turntable source without considering the computer. Then set a software equalizer on my computer (in the digital realm, before it hits the sound card's D/A) until I get the same equalized sound I get now from the computer. Then both sources would be optimally equalized at all times.

Mr Peabody
09-06-2007, 06:59 PM
Jim brings up a good point. I don't know if you notice because the sound is from a computer or maybe a overall lack of system resolution. Your plan would probably work if ALL recordings were treated equally. But they aren't. The purpose of an equalizer is to flatten the frequency response, no peaks and valleys. This is pretty much impossible but if done properly an EQ can sometimes help. Back to recordings, I don't know what type of music you are into but for example, a Nelly album would have a different frequency response than a Metallica, and them, of a Patsy Cline. The Patsy Cline will probably sound thin, though I'm amazed at how well her voice carries through. The Nelly would have bass, if not a hump there. Good luck trying to create low bass from Metallica. So it would not be normal for only one EQ setting to be all things to all albums. If you set your EQ with a certain album on the turntable, you may find that setting not so pleasing when going to the next album.

I had an EQ in my car system years ago and I vowed never to do that again, I was constantly playing with that thing from one tape to the next. Madonna albums had a different response than Zepplin.

But this doesn't mean your set up is necessarily incorrect, it just means don't be surprised if you find one setting isn't going to work for all albums.

Luvin Da Blues
09-06-2007, 07:13 PM
Like Mr.P said, EQing is to flatten the frequency response.

I would beg, buy or borrow a test CD or LP and a meter and make small adjustments (+/-3db) with the receivers EQ (both sources are affected) to achieve the flattest freq. curve for your room. I doubt with a 7 band that the freq's you want to adjust are available to you tho also the band width will be so wide that you'll be affecting freq's that you don't want. Leave the computer EQ for small personal preference adjustments but that sounds like what your doing.

But the bottom line is what sounds good to you and not what any of use says here, it's all about the enjoyment you get from your gear. Cheers

ggking7
09-07-2007, 06:25 AM
Mr. P,

Like I said, I want to compensate for the "source, interconnect, preamp, amp, speaker wire, speaker, room, and hearing deficiency". Each of those components will introduce their own peaks and valleys which will remain (relatively) *regardless of the recording*. The idea is to compensate for those, and then listen to each recording with *only* its peaks and valleys intact.

LDB,

Using a test CD and test LP would be the ideal way to precisely equalize the chain of components listed above. That said, I probably won't because I don't have either and I don't mind doing it by ear. :)

If we're settled on what the goal is, let's get back to whether or not my solution is viable. Is there any reason why the originally proposed solution would be anything less than ideal?

Edit:

By ideal, I mean will the computer and turntable both be equalized optimally given the hardware I have to work with. Will the computer be equalized as well as if the turntable did not need to be taken into consideration? Will the turntable be equalized as well as if the computer did not need to be taken into consideration? Do you see what I mean?

Mr Peabody
09-07-2007, 06:59 PM
Nope, I think that's the best solution for what you are trying to do.

ggking7
09-09-2007, 01:24 PM
Alright, thanks guys.