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salad 419
08-19-2007, 04:02 PM
I've had "issues" with the way my Quad 22L's have sounded since I bought them. I wasn't happy with the highs. I changed the setting from the Coax input on my reciever to Analog and was rewarded with a TON more presence. Sadly, even with the improvements, the 22L's still don't have what I'd call sparkling highs.

However, the center chanel speaker does. I have the 22L's bi-wired, but the center is using a smaller gauge wire. Do you think this is a product of the wiring, or just the nature of the tonality of the center channel vs. the 22L's?

Equipment is as follows:

HK AV-246 reciever
Emmerson $39 DVD player for CD playback.

Yes, I realize the equipment isn't HI-FI, but it's all I can afford at the time. Too many other projects, '68 Camaro, Race Jeep, Bass equipment for my band, kids, wife, etc......

superdougiefreshness
08-20-2007, 12:53 AM
I've had "issues" with the way my Quad 22L's have sounded since I bought them. I wasn't happy with the highs. I changed the setting from the Coax input on my receiver to Analog and was rewarded with a TON more presence. Sadly, even with the improvements, the 22L's still don't have what I'd call sparkling highs.

However, the center channel speaker does. I have the 22L's bi-wired, but the center is using a smaller gauge wire. Do you think this is a product of the wiring, or just the nature of the tonality of the center channel vs. the 22L's?

Equipment is as follows:

HK AV-246 receiver
Emmerson $39 DVD player for CD playback.

Yes, I realize the equipment isn't HI-FI, but it's all I can afford at the time. Too many other projects, '68 Camaro, Race Jeep, Bass equipment for my band, kids, wife, etc......


You certainly have allot of irons in the fire my freind.........LOL

First I ask if your center channel is bi-wired ? Could make a difference in timbre between the two fronts and the center speakers. Try using the wire from the center channel on just one front speaker such as the left and compair right and left using the different gauges. This would give you some sort of information if left sounds brighter then the right. Then of course as finances permit go ahead and change all front wire to match your center. Now another thought is type and brand of wires your running ? Such as single core vs multi strand, each can sound different. Also the age of the center channel wire compared to both your fronts ? My newer cables can sound harsh and bright compared to my cables that are 25 years old. I am wondering the difference in age between you center speaker and the other front speakers ? Products can sound very different if from different makers and different years.........

Check with your sales rep who sold everything to you and see what they can recommend.

Sorry for rambling on so much, but I can certainly understand your frustration.
In closing I understand that Quad are British and some British speakers can have a much more polite and restrained sound to them. Makes me wounder what make and model your center is ??? Also is the center powered from a different or separate amplifier........or part of the same amp as the other fronts.......

I know ..:10: ...way to many questions ?........... LOL, by the way that's Larry King on the mic tonight.......LOL.... "Doug..... from San Diego.... your on the air"...........

Have fun and let us know your findings.....I also have British speakers "old Celestion SL6si's" and they are not really that bright compaired to say my Pioneer's they can be somewhat dull at times.......comparatively speaking.........LOL..........but ya know I just love this hobby of ours with a passion that is as old as I am, and I love talking about it as much as listening to my own system's.......

Later

salad 419
08-20-2007, 12:58 PM
Sorry if I forgot to mention, the center channel is the Quad Center that's supposed to be timbre matched to the 22L's. The center channel was new while the mains were demo models. The same reciever is used to push all speakers, what's the possibility that the center channel amp in the reciever is timbre matched for more highs for movies ??????

The speaker wire for the center is OLD (15+ years) and 14 or 16 gauge. It's only long enough to reach the center channel so the center is NOT bi-wired. (which also makes testing your theory impossible :( ) I actually noticed a slight (possibly imaginary) improvement when going bi-wired to the mains which is 10 gauge. All the speaker wires are of the Cheap (Wal-Mart/Phillips?) multi-strand variety.

I actually just went and bought some "better" $16 interconnects (YES, Phillips from Wal-Mart) and that improved the sound some more.

I don't HATE the sound. It is definately more natural and real sounding in the highs and not compressed. Ironically, my Zappa recordings which I always thought of as "weak" in the highs on my other stereos are awesome with these speakers and other recordings sound laid back and compressed. MAYBE, just maybe I'm actually hearing the production differences and mic techniques, etc. It also may be the fact that this is the first time I've ever owned any soft dome tweeters and that's just their nature. When I cheat and put the treble to +2 it sounds too trebly. SO, I could just be an idiot.

Keep asking questions and rambling on. I dont' mind at all.

superdougiefreshness
08-21-2007, 03:07 AM
What's the possibility that the center channel amp in the receiver is timbre matched for more highs for movies ?????? Keep asking questions and rambling on. I dont' mind at all.

Hi Salad 419, thats a very unique handle you got there buddy.........LOL

I think your right on the money when you mentioned your receiver having a different timbre for center channel during movies. I think that's your answer, and I also know that your speakers will be tremendously more revealing of source material as well as the other components in your system because your speakers are superior than most all of the retail big box crap. Most consumers are not aware of the difference between moderate priced junk and real fine audio gear.

What brand and model receiver are you playing movies with ? Maybe you can find the Eq settings using the receivers remote that will let you adjust the equalizing of your center channel to bring the treble down a notch to match the rest of the systems speakers. I have seen some lower priced systems have very generic programing for 5.1 and THX movie settings just as you had suspected. I believe and understand as you move up in equipment quality things can improve to help balance these effects more than on the inexpensive units.

Center information on some source material "movies on DVD" can be very specific to place most of the voice to the center speaker at a higher db then the other speakers.......hence center channel info for voices to direct you attention toward the screen. Try working your settings with that remote or on the front panel of the receiver to see if things are more adjustable to balance your system sound.

Those are truly beautiful speakers to have playing in your system. I am still using 2.0 for movies myself mainly because I only watch cable and not allot of DVD and VCR stuff these days.........

Oh one last thing, are you listening to CDs and Radio in 2.0 or are you also going surround with that as well ? You could always send your three front speakers to Quad for evaluation and by all means I would give them a call to the customer care reps to help you evaluate whats going on.

:mad2:

Later and Good Luck............I love this hobby..........LOL

salad 419
08-21-2007, 05:58 AM
Dougie,

A lot of times I listen to my CD's in 5 or 7 channel stereo for a few different reasons.

1) I have speakers in another room so I can listen to the same music throughout the house.

2) My surrounds are Axiom QS-8's which are very bright so sometimes it's nice blending the two different timbres for music, especially when I'm in the mood for more highs

3) I'm rarely seated in the optimal listening position. I'm usually wandering around, cleaning, etc.

Anyway, your movie comment made me think.......... I don't really notice the highs being different during movies. I don't usually listen to music through any of the other surround presets other than 5 or 7 channel.

Now for the meat and potatos, I messed with the other surround settings and the center was not brighter. For some reason, the center brightness only occurs on 5/7 channel stereo. So, once again, it appears that I'm an idiot...........

The reciever has no channel specific EQ's so that couldn't have been the problem.

YAHOOOOOOOOOOO

Thanks,
Rock on

superdougiefreshness
08-21-2007, 03:09 PM
Dougie,

A lot of times I listen to my CD's in 5 or 7 channel stereo for a few different reasons.

Now for the meat and potatos, I messed with the other surround settings and the center was not brighter. For some reason, the center brightness only occurs on 5/7 channel stereo. So, once again, it appears that I'm an idiot...........

Hi Salad,
I guess thats your answer than, your receiver has preset the sound qualities for the center channel to be 5/7 brighter and quite unchangeable at that, and it's just that simple.

I have to ask you about your front left/right Quad's, and not the center. How do they sound all alone when playing music in 2.0 ? Are they still dull in the highs while in 2.0 mode ? You see I am partial to the British sound being the proud owner of 18 year old heavy Celestion bookshelf speakers, also British. Your ordeal too figure out your system helps me stay 2.0 ......... LOL.


Later, and very glad I could have helped even if just a little.


p.s. what exactly does salad 419 mean......that is if its ok to mention in the forum ?


Later Dude
:cornut:

nightflier
08-21-2007, 08:10 PM
Salad,

Your Quad speakers will sound less bright than the axioms, that's for sure. I own both brands and I can tell you that the sound of the Quads is substantially better top-to-bottom than even the MT80's. A few thoughts:

- The HK receiver may not be able to drive the speakers adequately. True, HK is conservative in rating its amps, but the Quads aren't exactly easy to drive either.

- 5-channel stereo will not sound that good if you're using the Axioms with the Quads together. You may actually be hearing brightness from the rear speakers as well as your center channel.

- 5-channel surround is a software-generated distribution of a 2-channel stereo source. Some receivers do a better job of this, although the HK should be able to do this adequately.

- I would definitely use the same speaker wire for all three front speakers. Even if I had to use base-priced Home Depot 16 gauge wire, I would try and match these accordingly. I also wouldn't by-amp/by-wire, unless I could do so for all three speakers at the same time. By the way, after reconnecting the wires to use a single pair of posts, did you remember to re-insert the jumpers between the posts? (silly question, I know, but I've made that mistake myself)

- The tweeters on the Quads are very capable units and should be able to play very revealing highs. I know your budget is limited, but you might find that the player may be the weakest link in your setup.

As I've written elsewhere, the Quads are amazing speakers for the money. From what I've been able to audition in my home, they compete very well with speakers at least twice their price. Not only do they play wonderfully tight bass, they are extremely controlled and well behaved into the mid-bass, the mid-range, and on up to the trebble. Granted, they won't play like a speaker with a planar tweeter, and they will sound different from a speaker with an aluminum tweeter for sure, but they will play beautiful extended highs with the right equipment and configuration.

superdougiefreshness
08-22-2007, 01:38 AM
- The tweeters on the Quads are very capable units and should be able to play very revealing highs. I know your budget is limited, but you might find that the player may be the weakest link in your setup.

As I've written elsewhere, the Quads are amazing speakers for the money. From what I've been able to audition in my home, they compete very well with speakers at least twice their price. Not only do they play wonderfully tight bass, they are extremely controlled and well behaved into the mid-bass, the mid-range, and on up to the treble. Granted, they won't play like a speaker with a planar tweeter, and they will sound different from a speaker with an aluminum tweeter for sure, but they will play beautiful extended highs with the right equipment and configuration.

I must say "well done nightflier, well done indeed"
Your well written comments are inspiration for such a poorly written wretch as myself. After your commentary I am so enthusiastic about Quads that I want to go out and listen to them straight away tommorow..............

Salad I agree with Nightflier about using speaker wires that are matched in gauge and not by/wiring your speakers. Your going to here a more pronounced matching when wires are matched.

I'm going right to the Quad site to find a local rep and audition these little wonders.

Salad how did you get into Quad to begin with ?......I am always so interested in what prompts peoples choice in gear.

In closing there is a great article on the dagogo.com site comparing Audio Note speakers to Quad's that you guys might like reading.......

Later
:ihih:

nightflier
08-22-2007, 09:35 AM
DougieFresh,

That Dagogo article compared Quad 57s with the Audio Notes, not eactly the same thing as the Quad 22Ls. Or are you referring to another article? If so, what's the full link?

superdougiefreshness
08-22-2007, 01:19 PM
DougieFresh,

That Dagogo article compared Quad 57s with the Audio Notes, not exactly the same thing as the Quad 22Ls. Or are you referring to another article? If so, what's the full link?

Hi Nightflier,
You have it right http://www.dagogo.com/AudioNoteAN-E-SE-2003.html (http://www.dagogo.com/AudioNoteAN-E-SE-2003.html) here is the link to the article. It may be irrelevant to our thread indeed, but as I have mentioned before this may be of interest to anyone involved with Quad speakers. I had never really thought much of Audio Note before reading the article just because of the cost of the speakers, not anymore. I am very interested now especially since I am a 2.0/2-way bookshelf speaker lover.

Also I have talked with Ed Frias about his speaker designs and he mostly does not prefer a two way design with a larger woofer such as the 8" in the Audio note, because this can sound slow or sloppy.......just a thought.....sorry to go off topic..........kinda the way my brain trails through a conversation.........I may aggravate a more focused person while talking but I certainly can keep the talk going while keeping someone engaged if not inraged.........LOL

In closing aren't those Audio Note's sweet.........?
:cool:
Have a better one

salad 419
09-03-2007, 02:12 PM
The Quads are laid back. They sound the best with the treble at +2 db, but I refuse to let myself use the EQ. To me, they just sound extremely clear in the mid-range with not a lot of bottom or top. It could be the player and/or reciever.

Also realize that I come from the old school 3-way and smiley face EQ setting crowd and I'm trying to adjust my listening style as well.

Salad 419 comes from a few different events. People used to call me Alice. A friend of mine's two year old couldn't say Alice and it came out sounding like Salad. Then one night at a different friends house he was watching wraslin' and drinkin' beer and Ray Mysterio (sp?) had these pants on that said 619 which was his area code he was representing. Several beers later and I somehow became Salad 419.

OR, I could lie and pretend to be more sophisticated and say that Salad is from Shakespeere and what he refered to as the Salad years and I adapted that for myself?????

I'm NOT bashing the Quads. I think they sound a million times better than anything I've ever owned. I followed the recomendation to start the audiophile quest with speakers and will upgrade as money permits. I know I have some very weak links in my system. I was just wondering if/why the center sounded better and I got jipped on my mains. It turns out it was just the reciever 5/7 channel software.