Monster Clean Power Bars

[RGA]

Okay I do my darndest to be VERY VERY skeptical of wires and cable differences. I know all the DBT zealots are all over these things as well as a lot of engineers. But here's the thing...my TV makes a fair bit of noise and my high sensitive speakers with a new Marantz receiver for the home theater does have some hiss in the treble. Basically noise.
ANyway several months back I was at A&B sound an up market Best Buy and they had a demo with the clean power power bars where they ran the the Marantz 7300 unit with a meter and you could here a big hum/hiss with regular power...plug the Marantz into the Monster bar and the his and the meter went to zero...it was extremely impressive - but being the best possible skeptic I can I just assumed the test was a trick to con people into buying these extremeley insanesly priced power bars.

Today I was talking to a Monster rep at London Drugd(they carry Klipsch, Onkyo and other mid-fi stuff) and this rep was there to tell the London Drugs manager, presumably, about the new line. This guy seems so adamant that people not beleiving in cable differences are nuts. I believe he truly is passionate in his belief and swears up and down that they are better at preserving bass and treble and time coherence than lamp cord.

Anyway, knowing that the owner of monster was an audiophile Nuclear Physicist is there some merit in these bars...the actual measurement on the back shows huge power spikes and then claims that Monster makes them dead flat. The rep said amps cannot get rid of the noise blah blah.

I guess I'm looking for two things.

1) some kind of hard evidence, not opinion, that these clean power bars actually do work and get rid of video and audio noise.
2) that if there is is proof is there a dirt cheap alternative because frankly the profit or mark-up on Monster must be 10000%

Note I'm not interested to hear about small trial DBTs on this from some amp test in the 80s as it does not relate to this specific issue(If you have a DBT thta speaks SPECIFICALLY to Monster cable Clean power type 1 or 2 bars again SPECIFICALLY and ALL information is provided - like the building spec and the noise before the bar etc that's fine...because not all buildings have power issues to start with) - Proof in the way of actual MEASURED noise reduction is what I'm after. The back of these power bars show the before and after measured graphs - though the graph has no information to tell you what is actually being measured of course.

Also, I would ask the technical people on this forum to go to anyplace selling Monster cable which is just about any store carrying Monster - because apparently they will run this test for you so you can see what they're doing and tell me if it's full of BS. They have something like or is an SPL meter and one store owner said it reduced noise in the 7300 up to 24db. Put it this way there was a loud hiss that was completely gone when this was plugged in - it must therefore impact sound at least at noise level if this actually works outside the stores.

The units are all around $100-$2000.00 depending which you get???

I posted this at AA and got some responses at bottom but no technical answers http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/314716.html

[mtrycraft]

Today I was talking to a Monster rep at London Drugd(they carry Klipsch, Onkyo and other mid-fi stuff) and this rep was there to tell the London Drugs manager, presumably, about the new line. This guy seems so adamant that people not beleiving in cable differences are nuts. I believe he truly is passionate in his belief and swears up and down that they are better at preserving bass and treble and time coherence than lamp cord.

You'd expect him to badmouth his products? Tell you in private it is all a bs to make money? I'd expected better from you.

Anyway, knowing that the owner of monster was an audiophile Nuclear Physicist is there some merit in these bars...the actual measurement on the back shows huge power spikes and then claims that Monster makes them dead flat. The rep said amps cannot get rid of the noise blah blah.

Is the owner immune from selling to the unsuspecting audio public hype and bs? He would be the first.
It would be nice to have his unit measured by independent engineers.
Amps do clean the noise, etc. The can take some spikes, certainly not the kind that kills them :) That is when you need a surge protector.
You are in Canada, Call Brystone, the owner Chris will talk with you. Ask about amp filters, etc.

Ask Monster for some DBT listening data conducted or verified by independent parties.



1) some kind of hard evidence, not opinion, that these clean power bars actually do work and get rid of video and audio noise.
2) that if there is is proof is there a dirt cheap alternative because frankly the profit or mark-up on Monster must be 10000%


I am looking for ahrd evidence as well:) Still wating.

The back of these power bars show the before and after measured graphs - though the graph has no information to tell you what is actually being measured of course.

Is that a surprise?


They have something like or is an SPL meter and one store owner said it reduced noise in the 7300 up to 24db.


Oh, I am sure it does do this. Your amp will do much better and sufficient.




Put it this way there was a loud hiss that was completely gone when this was plugged in - it must therefore impact sound at least at noise level if this actually works outside the stores.

Without investigating what was going on behind the scene, hard to say what was really going on.

[RGA]

[
You'd expect him to badmouth his products? Tell you in private it is all a bs to make money? I'd expected better from you.

Is the owner immune from selling to the unsuspecting audio public hype and bs? He would be the first.
It would be nice to have his unit measured by independent engineers.
Amps do clean the noise, etc. The can take some spikes, certainly not the kind that kills them :) That is when you need a surge protector.
You are in Canada, Call Brystone, the owner Chris will talk with you. Ask about amp filters, etc.

Ask Monster for some DBT listening data conducted or verified by independent parties.

I am looking for ahrd evidence as well:) Still wating.

Oh, I am sure it does do this. Your amp will do much better and sufficient.

Without investigating what was going on behind the scene, hard to say what was really going on.


Just a note I didn't buy what the Monster rep was saying just that I believe that he BELIEVES - I don't think he was being dishonest in his belief - not saying there IS a difference either - I just don't think he is deliberately trying to misrepresent the product. Then again he could just be a great liar.

It's interesting you mention Bryston because they connected the Monster bar before and after and there was no change. When they had the Bryston on there was no noise switch to the Monster and no noise. The Marantz 7300 had the noise and the monster fixed it. So could whater is in the bar be in the Bryston and not in the Marantz?

London Drugs had no equipment just a meter. They plugged the meter into to electric socket and the meter has an amp and a meter with a hiss and the meter jumps like a VU meter. Then you plug that same meter into the Monster bar and it's dead quiet.

This is why I ask - it's not really an audiophile or sound issue in itself it's just plugging into the wall outlet. This is why ask you or other people to go check this out because I'm hoping someone else will see a trick that I missed - after all magicians are deceptive - slight of hand and all that. Stores like Best Buy in the state probably have them.

I think I will send an email to Bryston because I would like to know why there amp doesn't exibit what the Marantz exibits. It's probably a .05 part that perhaps Marantz didn't put in - or A&B sound took out.

And you know Monster is never going to ever do a test...they sell so much stuff a test could only serve to hurt sales. Reading their site it all sounds impressive...only a nuclear physicist could possibly dream up the bizarre stuff I think...Skin effects and bass travelling down the middle of the wire and time coherent wires. I must laugh in fact that with all that technology - it sounds like there is more technology than in the $60,000.00 B&W Model Nautilus Speakers or any space shuttle. :D this alone should tell me it's bogus but I heard it it was so evident and convincing - almost too convincing which is why I posted. I'm simply looking for a way to get away from that hiss.

BTW, they also claim that sometimes if you're watching tv and start a vaccuum cleaner your picture can get fuzzy... I have seen this before it happend to me. They claim that with their bar this won't happen. :confused:

[Bill L]

You could buy it and return it if it doesn't work. You would have to trust your ears though. Scary, huh?

[Bill L]

Maybe his treble hiss is imaginary (by your logic) since he hears it w/out DBT and has no measurements to back up his claim.
Blind listening to strange equipment in strange acoustics is NOT testing your ears.

[zapr]

........I purchased one and had success with it. I know that's not what your looking for but why not see if you can take one home on a trial basis. If you can hear a hiss you'll know if it's gone........Zapr.

[RGA]

You could buy it and return it if it doesn't work. You would have to trust your ears though. Scary, huh?


This is not a sound issue it's an audible HISS even when NOTHING is playing...there is no need for a DBT here.

Certainly I can buy it and if I don't like it I can retuurn it. The problem is the unit is called the HTS 1000. It sells in Canada for $249.99. Aparently Monster has something called the PC 1000 for computers and the two are identical in every way except labelling. Monster sells it for $60.00US or $85.00 Cdn. But If I order that I'm stuck with it - and I certinly don't want to pay $249.99...even if it worked.

[mtrycraft]

Just a note I didn't buy what the Monster rep was saying just that I believe that he BELIEVES - I don't think he was being dishonest in his belief - not saying there IS a difference either - I just don't think he is deliberately trying to misrepresent the product. Then again he could just be a great liar.

I didn't think you did buy it one way or the other :)

It's interesting you mention Bryston because they connected the Monster bar before and after and there was no change. When they had the Bryston on there was no noise switch to the Monster and no noise. The Marantz 7300 had the noise and the monster fixed it. So could whater is in the bar be in the Bryston and not in the Marantz?

How much noise did the Marantz reduce the line noise without the Monster Bar? Is this noise that they are measuring and make audible, what level is that at? Maybe it is unrealistically amplified so you will hear it? Lots of questions :)

London Drugs had no equipment just a meter. They plugged the meter into to electric socket and the meter has an amp and a meter with a hiss and the meter jumps like a VU meter. Then you plug that same meter into the Monster bar and it's dead quiet.


I am sure it has filters in it, that is hardly the issue :)

This is why ask you or other people to go check this out because I'm hoping someone else will see a trick that I missed - after all magicians are deceptive - slight of hand and all that. Stores like Best Buy in the state probably have them.

I will see if there is one in one of the local audio stores:) with the setup you saw.



And you know Monster is never going to ever do a test...they sell so much stuff a test could only serve to hurt sales.

Yes, of course:)


Reading their site it all sounds impressive...only a nuclear physicist could possibly dream up the bizarre stuff I think...Skin effects and bass travelling down the middle of the wire and time coherent wires.


Are they still using their old bs nonsense that bass/low frequency travels down the center only? Then a 60Hz line voltage would not hurt the rep if he grabbed only the outside of the copper wire, right? At one time they claimed that thin wires had only the high frequencies in it, like a filter. The rep was taken to task to grab only the thin wires while plugged into the wall outlet. Their assertions are total bs on this. DC current is all of the wire size. As the frequency increases less and less of the high frequencies are there to lesser amount. BUT, that is well beyond the audio bands:)




I must laugh in fact that with all that technology - it sounds like there is more technology than in the $60,000.00 B&W Model Nautilus Speakers or any space shuttle. :D

Of course there is. Didn't you know this? :)


this alone should tell me it's bogus but I heard it it was so evident and convincing - almost too convincing which is why I posted. I'm simply looking for a way to get away from that hiss.


Yes, they are very good at convincing and selling.

BTW, they also claim that sometimes if you're watching tv and start a vaccuum cleaner your picture can get fuzzy... I have seen this before it happend to me. They claim that with their bar this won't happen. :confused:

Yes, this can happen. The noise gets picked up in the video signal path. A TV doesn't have the same filters as an amp does.

[mtrycraft]

Maybe his treble hiss is imaginary (by your logic) since he hears it w/out DBT and has no measurements to back up his claim.
Blind listening to strange equipment in strange acoustics is NOT testing your ears.


Or, his meter has an amplifier in it to amplify the minute noise to audibility for selling and demo purposes. No, they wouldn't cheat, right.

[topspeed]

"Yes, this can happen. The noise gets picked up in the video signal path. A TV doesn't have the same filters as an amp do"

Mtry, does this mean a power bar/conditioner will have an affect on video quality? I have a friend that is an EE and quite frankly, makes you look like Howard Dean when it comes to audiophile hoo-ha. However, he plugged a Monster power whatsit into his rig and noted right away that there was a definite improvement in the picture. I should note that this annoyed him to some degree because he couldn't really figure out why the difference would be so dramatic. He didn't have to pay for it (it was a trade for something else) so he kept it on his system. While he doesn't sell them, he does admit it improved his video. I never asked about audible improvements. Your take?

[RGA]

Mrty.

The meter did have an amplifier/speaker built in(It's a hand held meter) so it could be cranked up so you could hear the noise...and then of course the monster got rid of the noise.

Topspeed. The device did dramatically reduce the video noise of the tv connected...but of course these stores have many tvs connected.

I mainly want it for the tv. I have a 14 year old JVC that is quiet in my bedroom. The new 27' D series we bought in the living room is noisy...it sound kind of like a radio station that hasn't quite locked onto the station fully. Buzzy.

Anyway I bough a $29.99 surge protector today because it said it had a noise filter on it an a much higher joule rating than the Monster for $80.00. Unfortunately, i just tried it out and it did nothing to reduce noise.

My dad told me that the power we get from BC Hydro should be as perfect as it's going to get.

It could just be the TV being noisy and due to cheap wires might be picking up noise from something totally unrelated to electricity. I had a pioneer receiver that if you put it into CD mode and cranked it you could hear the radio come through the speakers...poor internal shielding obviously.

Radio shack has some RF device that might work but they're out of stock.

Monster does have a 2 plug clean power stage 1 device for $49.99.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much but if you put the receiver to cd and put the volume to maximum(not playing a cd of course) I expect dead quiet - not a hiss from the tweeter.

[uncooked]

i had a hiss comeing out of my amp about a month ago, i plugged it into a different outlet with a better surge protector bar, and its perfect. maybe try a different outlet and see what happens before you pay to much on filters like i was almost ready to do.

[mtrycraft]

i had a hiss comeing out of my amp about a month ago, i plugged it into a different outlet with a better surge protector bar, and its perfect. maybe try a different outlet and see what happens before you pay to much on filters like i was almost ready to do.


Maybe the outlet you had it on also had a motor on it?