My review of the Onix Strata Mini’s from AV123.

[GMichael]

My review of the Onix Strata Mini’s from AV123.

As promised.

My first impression was that these things are heavy, very heavy. (94 pounds each, but over 315 pounds together when shipped) It works out to over 60 pounds of packaging for each speaker. It’s a good thing that the driver helped me with them. I would have never been able to get them up the stairs myself. So then, I remove the crates. Then I removed the box, then the other box, then the formed packing, rubber like Styrofoam, then the soft cloth that both speakers were wrapped in. Oh look they sent me soft white gloves. I presume these are for moving them around. So now, to the speakers themselves. OMG are these things beautiful. Strike that. Not just beautiful. Make that stunningly beautiful! Throw in a few more experlatives that this simple minded guy can’t think of and it still doesn’t cover how fantastic these babies look.
This seems like a good place to state what equipment I am using. It’s a Yamaha RX-V2500. Just a receiver but does make it to 130 wpc with no problems. All music was listed to in Pure Direct mode. This means, no sub and no processing. The CD-R is a Yamaha CDR-HD1300. All music was played back from its internal hard drive. Movies & TV were direct from the local cable company.
I get them set up. Nothing special just put them where the Infinities used to be. Turned on the receiver and CD-R and played away. The Mini’s were set to the recommended starting point of ½ power to the powered woofers crossed at 80Hz.
The first thing I noticed was that the highs were not as bright as the Infinities. I was shocked seeing as the Infinities have a sharp roll off at 14 kHz and the Mini’s have about a 3db hump from 15k to 20k. As perplexed as I was, I still moved on. I played Chicago’s Greatest Hits and was very disappointed. The mids sounded like there was a sheet of plastic over them. Where were my highs? How can this be? These things cost 4 times as much as the Infinities! Please say it isn’t so. I thought, "This is my last upgrade ever."
I turned it all off. Moved them from 14” from the back wall to 26” away. Then I turned the base output down to ¼. Turned on the receiver and recalibrated the whole 7.1 system, resetting all EQ’s to flat when done. These actions helped, but I still wasn’t happy with the sound I was getting. I left the system running at -30db while I ran a few errands. It took me about 2 hours to get back. They seemed to be opening up a bit. Hope began to return. Maybe I WILL keep these after all. The mids were sounding clean and clear. The imaging was better than the Infinities ever gave me. Then I grabbed the camera to take a few pics. Took a few with the covers on, and then pulled them off to get a few more. WHOA! What the heck? Put them back on & pulled them off again. The sound was night and day. Suddenly all the highs were there. The thrill was back!
I put in Phil Collin’s Greatest hits. His voice was crisp and clear. Base was punchy and tight. Not over powered at all, but plenty of it. I started to get into the music. So much so that I forgot to take notes during most of them.
I had to turn up the volume a little more than I used to, to get to the same level. But the Yammie didn’t seem to mind one bit. NO SOUND WAVES WERE CLIPPED IN THE MAKING OF THIS REVIEW.
Next up was a movie. The Fantastic 4 just happened to be starting on one of the HD channels. This was a good chance to see how well they integrate with the rest of my 7.1 system. So, switch from Pure Direct to good old DTS (EX or ES?) mode. They matched well with the rest of the Infinities (Primus 150’s & C25). I set the MKIII 15” Titanic sub to be crossed at 60 Hz and left the mains at full range. (Picked “both” for base output) I was impressed with how well I could hear the dialog without turning the volume up to high levels. It seems like a match made in heaven for a “calibrate by ear” guy like me. I promise to pick up a db meter soon and do it right. But the movie sounded great. Well, up until the cable went out. We had major T-storms last night. Oh well, had to put on more music. Poor me. (Back to Pure Direct)
Played more Phil. Groovy kind of love, Hold On, Take Me Home. The drums sounded perfect.
Then Genesis: His voice seemed to hang in the air like a ghost walking around my room. “Did he just turn his head there?” Oh man is it clear. More than just clear. More than just smooth. It’s an eerie feeling like I wasn’t alone in the room.
The next morning; I put on my wife’s favorite cable channel, soft rock for a couple hours. Then, Pop’s favorite, the country cannel. I think I could learn to like them now. Too bad that Pure Direct won’t work for the cable music. I’ll have to read my manual to see what I’m doing wrong there.
Back to the CD-R and Pure mode. Boston’s Amanda seemed to envelope the room. The Eagles sounded better than ever. Kansas Leftoverature reminded me why I like that CD so much. But I got lost in the moment and forgot to take notes. Then some Stone Temple Pilots. Yes, Close to the Edge. The highs, the lows, the voices, the instruments, all sound very natural. Nothing is missing, and nothing overpowers the others. How many times can I say that they are clear and accurate?
Then I put in Jefferson Airplane & Air Supply. More of the same results. Aerosmith’s Dream On had all the excitement I remembered and more. How about some Ozzie? No More Tears rocks! I could hear every click and tick of the music box on the opening track. Ozzie offering the little girl some candy made me want to run to the schoolyard to pick up my little girl. And I don’t even have a child!
Next up, Nora Jones. WOW! Can I say smooth again? I could tell when she was smiling. This is crazy.
OK, now comes the RUSH. CD number one is to be played loud. As I recall, the original LP said, “For best results, play at maximum volume. So I turned it up to -10db. I was not disappointed. When Working Man came on, I was yelling, “Go Alex, go!”
Then Billy Joel, The Stranger. The piano sounded better than I’ve ever heard it.
Deep Purple’s Smoke on the water. Foreigner’s Hot Blooded and Cold as Ice, The Cars, Pat Bennitar, Styx, Steve Miller, and Led Zeppelin all sounded fantastic. I have a whole new appreciation for Spira Gira as well.
So, all and all, I’m very happy. Looking forward to the HT package to come out.

So there it is guys and gals. Talk later. More listening to take place now.:ihih:

[GMichael]

You wanted pics. I hope they come out alright.

[GMichael]

They didn't come out too bad. Here are a few more.

[GMichael]

Still more to come.

[GMichael]

Had enough yet?

[GMichael]

One last set.

[basite]

whoa, those speaks are shiny :)

glad to hear you like them, thanks for the nice review you made there and may they bring you countless hours of joy :cornut:

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[JohnMichael]

I can not get the photo's to open. They are unavailable to me. Suck! Mike unless speakers are voiced to be used with the grille cloths on they must go. The only speaker I ever owned that sounded right with the covers on was Bose 201s.

I am glad you are pleased. When you buy something based on the opinions of others it is risky. I bought my new speakers on a whim while shopping for more expensive speakers and getting tired of the attitude. I of course did not invest as much as you but I know the joy of being pleased with your choice. I also know the joy of greater resolution and the music more true to life. Sounds like you made a good choice and invested wisely.

Keep us posted as they break in, in the weeks to come. You may also find you will notice a difference in speaker cables.:idea:

[Luvin Da Blues]

What can I say GM,

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Glad your pleased, I know the feeling well. Cheers

Actually I can say something, they're hard to see with the pink paint :prrr:

[kexodusc]

GM, great to hear you're happy with your new toys. I felt the same way with some of my own gear in the past. It's not everyday we get new speakers, and there's a certain giddiness we all sorta get when we do. Enjoy these first few days.
Damn, those are some pretty haut-parleurs (I'm in Montreal now and practising my french). Real pretty. Getting that rosewood finish with such a gloss ain't easy - trust me - I've tried, and tried, and tried.... Needless to say, I have a special appreciation for the work involved - those are not your typical assembly line speakers. I believe I read way back that av123 gets a woodshop/factory in South America to do a lot of their finishes. Them South Americans know their way around wood!

I'm impressed with av123, IMO they offer the best sounding budget speaker in those little XLS bar none - Ascend and Axiom don't quite match the performance at higher prices - this coming from someone who owns product from 1 of the above. I hear they're great to deal with which goes a long way.

It's great to see another entrant into the industry with some models that make a splash (however minor). When the bar in value and performance is raised, we all win.

And might I say, damn fine choices in music to put those beasts through their paces. :D

Not surprised that the sound took awhile to open up - I've taken measurements on some of my own drivers - big noticeable differences as late as even 30 minutes of 90 dB music. I'm sure it takes longer for them to completely conform to spec.

Okay...I gotta say it...who picked the wall colors in your room, you or your wife??? :D

[SlumpBuster]

Too bad that Pure Direct won’t work for the cable music. I’ll have to read my manual to see what I’m doing wrong there.

I have the RX-1500. Make sure you have an analog signal going from your cable box to the receiver. If you only have a digital signal going in, pure direct will not recognize it, as you will be bypassing the Yammie's DAC.

[Feanor]

They look great and I'd love to hear them. Nothing like new toys, of course. :thumbsup:

I'm looking forward to further you reviews as the burn in and you get used to them. I'd like to believe their great: they have lots of good "stuff" and would seem to promise great value.

[GMichael]

I can not get the photo's to open. They are unavailable to me. Suck! Mike unless speakers are voiced to be used with the grille cloths on they must go. The only speaker I ever owned that sounded right with the covers on was Bose 201s.

I am glad you are pleased. When you buy something based on the opinions of others it is risky. I bought my new speakers on a whim while shopping for more expensive speakers and getting tired of the attitude. I of course did not invest as much as you but I know the joy of being pleased with your choice. I also know the joy of greater resolution and the music more true to life. Sounds like you made a good choice and invested wisely.

Keep us posted as they break in, in the weeks to come. You may also find you will notice a difference in speaker cables.:idea:

Check here for pics.
http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?p=403597&posted=1#post403597

Thanks John.

[GMichael]

I have the RX-1500. Make sure you have an analog signal going from your cable box to the receiver. If you only have a digital signal going in, pure direct will not recognize it, as you will be bypassing the Yammie's DAC.

I thought of that. But how will I get the 5.1 signals when watching the HD channels? Unless.... Does the box have 5.1 analog output too? I'll check!
Thanks....

[GMichael]

GM, great to hear you're happy with your new toys. I felt the same way with some of my own gear in the past. It's not everyday we get new speakers, and there's a certain giddiness we all sorta get when we do. Enjoy these first few days.
Damn, those are some pretty haut-parleurs (I'm in Montreal now and practising my french). Real pretty. Getting that rosewood finish with such a gloss ain't easy - trust me - I've tried, and tried, and tried.... Needless to say, I have a special appreciation for the work involved - those are not your typical assembly line speakers. I believe I read way back that av123 gets a woodshop/factory in South America to do a lot of their finishes. Them South Americans know their way around wood!

I'm impressed with av123, IMO they offer the best sounding budget speaker in those little XLS bar none - Ascend and Axiom don't quite match the performance at higher prices - this coming from someone who owns product from 1 of the above. I hear they're great to deal with which goes a long way.

It's great to see another entrant into the industry with some models that make a splash (however minor). When the bar in value and performance is raised, we all win.

And might I say, damn fine choices in music to put those beasts through their paces. :D

Not surprised that the sound took awhile to open up - I've taken measurements on some of my own drivers - big noticeable differences as late as even 30 minutes of 90 dB music. I'm sure it takes longer for them to completely conform to spec.

Okay...I gotta say it...who picked the wall colors in your room, you or your wife??? :D

Thanks Kex,

Yeah, I like them very much. And that guy Mark over there seems very nice.

I picked the living room color. But it's not really as pink as it looks in these pics. They are much darker into the maroon. But they do have a pinkish tint. I needed dark for the projector to work it's magic.

[GMichael]

They look great and I'd love to hear them. Nothing like new toys, of course. :thumbsup:

I'm looking forward to further you reviews as the burn in and you get used to them. I'd like to believe their great: they have lots of good "stuff" and would seem to promise great value.

Thanks Feanor. Stop by anytime.

I'm sure they have more oppening up to do. Only have about 19 hours on them so far.

[GMichael]

What can I say GM,

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Glad your pleased, I know the feeling well. Cheers

Actually I can say something, they're hard to see with the pink paint :prrr:

Tanx,

I'll have to take some pics without the flash so you guys can see the real color of these walls.

[JohnMichael]

Check here for pics.
http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?p=403597&posted=1#post403597

Thanks John.


Mike, hey friend I wanted to see the speakers and the link I clicked on just had a picture of a girl in a bikini. You know I am not happy.

[GMichael]

Mike, hey friend I wanted to see the speakers and the link I clicked on just had a picture of a girl in a bikini. You know I am not happy.

That's just my avatar. Give the other pics a minute to load. They're there. I swear.

[SlumpBuster]

I thought of that. But how will I get the 5.1 signals when watching the HD channels? Unless.... Does the box have 5.1 analog output too? I'll check!
Thanks....


Nope. You should only need two cables connecting your cable box to the receiver. The digital 5.1 (and any digital 2.0 for that matter) will travel via a coaxial digital cable (I'm not aware of any cable boxes that have an optical digital output). Then just a regular RCA left/right cable for the analog signals. You won't need 5.1 analog since that will go through the digital coaxial. Then on the cable input on the back of the receiver you will hook up the analog. The digital coaxials are off the the right side of the panel. The reciever will automatically detect digital 5.1 signal if it is present and favor that signal. If you switch to pure direct, it will then favor the analog signal.

Of course, the 2500 has very good DACs. Mine has better DACs than my CD player or (presumably) my cable box. So you may want that digital signal going in rather than the analog.

In any event, getting new speakers is a good occasion to break out the owners manual and re-acquaint yourself with an old friend.

[SlumpBuster]

Oh, and before I forget... Air Supply?!?! Really?!?! That is almost as bad as my complete Juice Newton collection. You remember Juice - Just call me angel in the moring. Seriously, I use Juice Newton as good test/break-in material. So I guess Air Supply is okay.

[JohnMichael]

That's just my avatar. Give the other pics a minute to load. They're there. I swear.


I found them on page 3. Nice speakers but I noticed you have friends on other web sites. Turns back to Mike and pouts.

[Luvin Da Blues]

..... (I'm not aware of any cable boxes that have an optical digital output).....

FYI, my Motorola DCT6200 has both RCA digital and Optical outs. But then I'm in Canada
so we may have different equipment up here.

[GMichael]

Oh, and before I forget... Air Supply?!?! Really?!?! That is almost as bad as my complete Juice Newton collection. You remember Juice - Just call me angel in the moring. Seriously, I use Juice Newton as good test/break-in material. So I guess Air Supply is okay.

I hear ya. But the wife loves them. She's into all things that are lovey dovey. Maybe today I'll get to play some Barry Mannillo (sp).

[GMichael]

I found them on page 3. Nice speakers but I noticed you have friends on other web sites. Turns back to Mike and pouts.

I have new friends and old friends. The new friends are silver. The old friends are gold.

Here, these will make you feel better.

[GMichael]

Nope. You should only need two cables connecting your cable box to the receiver. The digital 5.1 (and any digital 2.0 for that matter) will travel via a coaxial digital cable (I'm not aware of any cable boxes that have an optical digital output). Then just a regular RCA left/right cable for the analog signals. You won't need 5.1 analog since that will go through the digital coaxial. Then on the cable input on the back of the receiver you will hook up the analog. The digital coaxials are off the the right side of the panel. The reciever will automatically detect digital 5.1 signal if it is present and favor that signal. If you switch to pure direct, it will then favor the analog signal.

Of course, the 2500 has very good DACs. Mine has better DACs than my CD player or (presumably) my cable box. So you may want that digital signal going in rather than the analog.

In any event, getting new speakers is a good occasion to break out the owners manual and re-acquaint yourself with an old friend.

I just checked. Yup, no 5.1 analog conections. But I am hooked up to optical out. Digital coax is another option.

Another thought/question. Why does my CD player have no trouble coming in through optical and still be able to use pure direct?

[JohnMichael]

I have new friends and old friends. The new friends are silver. The old friends are gold.

Here, these will make you feel better.


Gosh they did make me feel better. Thanks. I liked the photos.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Maybe today I'll get to play some Barry Mannillo (sp).

Your one lucky man GM. I see by the time of your posts your still not sleeping.

[drseid]

Glad to hear they worked out for you GM! I agree with Kex in saying that AV123 really has upped the anti in the "budget" arena, proving you do not need to be super-rich to afford excellent sound (although I suspect they have more than their share of "rich" customers that just appreciate getting a great deal). How AV123 can still afford to make them look so good to boot along with their superb customer service is quite the mystery... That said, I am sure no one is complaining. :-)

Many years of happy listening to you...

---Dave

[bobsticks]

Very nice GM, very nice indeed. As Kex pointed out those characters certainly know something about finishing and woodwork. It sounds like you got the buy of the year and your enthusiasm makes me excited, fer cripes sake...
...and thanks for the pics, their website doesn't really do them justice. Enjoy.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Man, if I had those speakers, I wouldn't even need a wife! Just drill an extra...:idea:
Is that the sub you're going to be selling me GM?
Your cat's a whore.
Next to the Apogee speakers a guy I work with has, and E-Stats speakers they're probably the most unquie looking speakers I've ever seen (not that I'm an expert, but still...).
The details you describe that your ears are picking up must be mind-blowing! Something I'd like to be able to experience somedayMany happy years of listening ahead GM! :16:

Now, you'll notice I didn't make any wisecracks about the interior decorating of your HT room didn't ya? It's definately got a woman's touch!

BTW... I just luuuuuuv all that Yamaha stuff ya got there buddy! :biggrin5:

[jrhymeammo]

Looking good there GM. That Hot Lavender Pink wall really matches your personality. I would say they sound incredible after 100 hours.

JRA

[E-Stat]

So there it is guys and gals. Talk later. More listening to take place now.:ihih:
Cool beans, GM. I'll bet they sound sweet. The funny thing about really good speakers is that they don't sound impressive at first blush - just natural. That's the way it should be.

Enjoy!

ps: the cat seems to approve as well. Zoe (my cat) loves to listen with me as well.

rw

[Bernd]

....Mike. Looking sweet.
I am with E-Stat as to really good stuff is never that impressive on first listen, but boy will it last.
No cat over here though.:nonod:

Enjoy.

Peace

:16:

[basite]

congrats (again) Mike,
I too agree that new stuff doesn't sound impressive when you just have it, but trust me, at this time you'll like them alot, and sooner or later you'll be addicted to them :)

and that's a nice cat you got there, and she even seems to enjoy it :thumbsup:

[GMichael]

Thanks everyone. I really do enjoy them now. They seem to open up a little more each day. They get hours of use even when I'm not home. Between the wife and her soft rock station, and Pop watching TV all day, they get plenty of use.

Tex, You are a very sick man. Seek help. But I still think that those B&W's of yours are some very nice speakers as well. If I already had those, I may never had looked into upgrading. And yeah, that's the sub. Do you still want to pay me almost $400 more than you could buy one new at PE? Now that really is sick!

The cat does seem to love the music. She likes to watch the TV when it's on too. I always wonder what she must be thinking.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Cats don't hink. :biggrin5:

[Bernd]

Cats don't hink. :biggrin5:

GMs does!

[GMichael]

Man, if I had those speakers, I wouldn't even need a wife! Just drill an extra...:idea:
Is that the sub you're going to be selling me GM?
Your cat's a whore.
Next to the Apogee speakers a guy I work with has, and E-Stats speakers they're probably the most unquie looking speakers I've ever seen (not that I'm an expert, but still...).
The details you describe that your ears are picking up must be mind-blowing! Something I'd like to be able to experience somedayMany happy years of listening ahead GM! :16:

Now, you'll notice I didn't make any wisecracks about the interior decorating of your HT room didn't ya? It's definately got a woman's touch!

BTW... I just luuuuuuv all that Yamaha stuff ya got there buddy! :biggrin5:

You must have an LCD monitor. The walls look pink to me also when I look at them on my home computer (LCD monitor). They look normal when I look at the pics here at work (CRT monitor).

Leave my kitty alone. You're not her type.

[Luvin Da Blues]

You must have an LCD monitor. The walls look pink to me also when I look at them on my home computer (LCD monitor). They look normal when I look at the pics here at work (CRT monitor)..

Sure GM, sure :prrr:

Me thinkin you're like a buddy of mine...he loves pinks and purples.

Peace

[basite]

Leave my kitty alone. You're not her type.


How do you know?

[Rich-n-Texas]

You must have an LCD monitor. The walls look pink to me also when I look at them on my home computer (LCD monitor). They look normal when I look at the pics here at work (CRT monitor).
No. I don't have an LCD monitor. LCD's aren't allowed in my house. I didn't say you had pink walls, but...

Okay...I gotta say it...who picked the wall colors in your room, you or your wife???
And then...

That Hot Lavender Pink wall really matches your personality
And you said...

I picked the living room color. But it's not really as pink as it looks in these pics. They are much darker into the maroon. But they do have a pinkish tint.
I said...

Now, you'll notice I didn't make any wisecracks about the interior decorating of your HT room didn't ya? It's definately got a woman's touch!
You're convicting me of a crime I didn't commit!



Leave my kitty alone. You're not her type.
We've already been down that road. :mad2:

[GMichael]

Sure GM, sure :prrr:

Me thinkin you're like a buddy of mine...he loves pinks and purples.

Peace

Is he cute?

[GMichael]

We've already been down that road. :mad2:

And that's why we got the first restraining order.:incazzato:

[Luvin Da Blues]

Is he cute?

Actually GM he's quite normal and a fairly cool dude, just has something about pink and purples I guess, his wife likes those colors to so all's good. After knowing him for 30+ years you tend to accept it.

[GMichael]

Every day they sound better and better. Last night I went through all of my Yes and Pink Floyd. What a great night!

[GMichael]

Today I'm going through all of my Rush. This may take awhile. :cornut:

[topspeed]

Forget the pics of the cat with the speaks, I wanna see Boo Boo next to the Mini's! :thumbsup:

Congrats on your new toys, Mike. Really happy to hear they are giving you so much pleasure. Enjoy 'em, you've earned 'em!

BTW, speaking of Rush, I just saw them live last night in NorCal on their Snakes and Arrows tour. Neil has a brand new kit (Red is the new Black) and it sounds fantastic! A little pared down compared to some of his older kits, but really tight...and what a solo! For a bunch of old rockers, the only other band I've seen recently that plays as tight was the Eagles. Great show, don't miss it if they come your way.

[GMichael]

Forget the pics of the cat with the speaks, I wanna see Boo Boo next to the Mini's! :thumbsup:

Congrats on your new toys, Mike. Really happy to hear they are giving you so much pleasure. Enjoy 'em, you've earned 'em!

BTW, speaking of Rush, I just saw them live last night in NorCal on their Snakes and Arrows tour. Neil has a brand new kit (Red is the new Black) and it sounds fantastic! A little pared down compared to some of his older kits, but really tight...and what a solo! For a bunch of old rockers, the only other band I've seen recently that plays as tight was the Eagles. Great show, don't miss it if they come your way.

Boo Boo wouldn't hold still long enough for me to get a picture. Maybe next time.

Thanks, I do enjoy them very much.

Rush is an excelent show. They've been fantastic every time I've seen them. Red huh? Sounds cool. I like red.

[westcott]

Congratulations!!! Those are some very good looking speaker cabinets.

Let us know how it sounds after you get the system calibrated.

I would be inclined to move them a little more inboard, away from the side walls and see if that makes a difference in your room.

Enjoy!!!

[GMichael]

Congratulations!!! Those are some very good looking speaker cabinets.

Let us know how it sounds after you get the system calibrated.

I would be inclined to move them a little more inboard, away from the side walls and see if that makes a difference in your room.

Enjoy!!!


Thanks, I like them very much.

I keep thinking about those walls as well. But the room is only 14 feet wide and I was sitting 19 feet away. They are only 10 feet away from each other now. How narrow can I go? Seems like I'd be trading one problem for another.
I did move them closer to my sitting position the other day. I'm now only 14 feet away. The wall to my left has heavy curtains, and the wall to the right is only half a wall. I will play around with them though before I finalize their resting place. Just wish they weren't so hard to move.

Here are a few additional pics.

[GMichael]

Another shot of my babies.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Hey! I have a Chase credit card! Mrs. GM, how can we get my balance to disappear???

[GMichael]

Hey! I have a Chase credit card! Mrs. GM, how can we get my balance to disappear???

Lot's of luck. I keep asking her to bring samples home with her, but does she? Noooooooooooooooo................................. .

[jrhymeammo]

Last night I went through all of my Yes and Pink Floyd. What a great night!

That's all you have?

[GMichael]

That's all you have?

Yeah, only 4 Yes and 5 PF on CD. I used to have a ton more on LP's. Somehow I must have forgotten to replace them all. I was very upset by this and will be taking steps to fix it.

[kexodusc]

Thanks, I like them very much.I keep thinking about those walls as well. But the room is only 14 feet wide and I was sitting 19 feet away. They are only 10 feet away from each other now. How narrow can I go? Seems like I'd be trading one problem for another.
I did move them closer to my sitting position the other day. I'm now only 14 feet away. The wall to my left has heavy curtains, and the wall to the right is only half a wall. I will play around with them though before I finalize their resting place. Just wish they weren't so hard to move.

Argghhh!
Dude - you gotta do something about that setup. Keep them at least 2 feet from the side wall...do you have any wall panels yet? How big is your room?

14 feet is a lot better than 19. You're violating the triangle rule but your room is 14 feet wide, so what can ya do?
I'm assuming it's not as simple as you moving your chairs up closer or you'd have already done that. The further back you are, the more reflections, smearing, etc you are going to subject yourself to.

Tell ya what I did - bought myself a fancy, comfy, director's style folding chair - $20 or so...I haul it out and grab the foot stool when I want a good listen.
You have no idea how much better this can sound - I hear things in the music I didn't realize were there before - something gets lost (or at least altered) when all those sound waves are bouncing off the walls.

Scary, you've had those things for a few weeks now but you haven't even realized their potential yet....

[GMichael]

Argghhh!
Dude - you gotta do something about that setup. Keep them at least 2 feet from the side wall...do you have any wall panels yet? How big is your room?

14 feet is a lot better than 19. You're violating the triangle rule but your room is 14 feet wide, so what can ya do?
I'm assuming it's not as simple as you moving your chairs up closer or you'd have already done that. The further back you are, the more reflections, smearing, etc you are going to subject yourself to.

Tell ya what I did - bought myself a fancy, comfy, director's style folding chair - $20 or so...I haul it out and grab the foot stool when I want a good listen.
You have no idea how much better this can sound - I hear things in the music I didn't realize were there before - something gets lost (or at least altered) when all those sound waves are bouncing off the walls.

Scary, you've had those things for a few weeks now but you haven't even realized their potential yet....

Yeah, I know. I'm a baaaaad audiophile. Oh wait! That's right. I'm just an enthusiast. I'm off the hook. Yeeehaaa...
OK OK, I still have work to do. Didn't even pick up that RS DB meter yet. Don't spank me though. They were out of stock. Is the analog one better than the digital? Why? What's a good test CD, or should I use the Yammie's built in tones? Would they work for this? My guess is no. Don't know of a way to set the frequencies of the tones.
Can't move the seat closer because it's a huge sectional. The other end would end up blocking the window as well as the left speaker.
Can't add a chair dead center because wifey has a giant coffee table there. I do sit on the coffee table from time to time to listen. It's in a good spot. The left speaker is about 18 inches from the side wall and almost 6 feet from the back wall. The right speaker is only 1 foot from the right, half wall/counter. The same 6 feet from the back wall. Both are heavily towed in. The right one points to the left seat while the left one points at the right seat.
The room is 14Wx26L. The right side opens up into the kitchen & dining room at around 7 feet (see the picture in post 51. They have been moved forward since that pic). The counter goes another 6 feet. The whole "great room" is 28 wide by 26 long.
No wall panels yet.

Sometimes I think that I'd like to move them to the pool room where it's 25x25. A nice 2 channel system would be great. My speakers down there are 20 feet apart. But how could I take such beautiful speakers out of our living room and banish them to the basement? That's just wrong!

So much to think about, so much to do, so little time left over after I get done listening.
:ihih:

[GMichael]

Here is a view of the room from about where the left speaker sits.

[PeruvianSkies]

Holy pink...I've never seen that much pink in a married guys house since....well, even the Pink Panther has limits. Whew.

[Rich-n-Texas]

You'll STILL notice I haven't made any wisecracks about your living room GM...

[GMichael]

You'll STILL notice I haven't made any wisecracks about your living room GM...

Go ahead. Nothing you can say will make me stop liking it. I know it looks girly pink in the pictures. When you come visit you'll know better. When will that be again? Summer will be over soon. You know you don't want to come over in January.

Kex, The measurements are:

Right speaker is 18 inches from the right wall and 46 inches from the back wall. (measured to the center of the tweeter)
Left speaker is 27 inches from the left wall and 46.5 inches from the back.
The right tweeter is 10 feet 1 inch from the left.
Both speakers are 15 feet 6 inches from where I sit.

So, did you see my questions about the Rat Shack meter and test CD?

[kexodusc]

Yeah, I know. I'm a baaaaad audiophile. Oh wait! That's right. I'm just an enthusiast. I'm off the hook. Yeeehaaa...
OK OK, I still have work to do. Didn't even pick up that RS DB meter yet. Don't spank me though. They were out of stock. Is the analog one better than the digital? Why? What's a good test CD, or should I use the Yammie's built in tones? Would they work for this? My guess is no. Don't know of a way to set the frequencies of the tones.

I like the analog better just because I can eyeball the needle movement during peaks etc...don't think it really matters. I have DVE and AVIA for calibration discs. To be honest, for speaker calibration, YPAO and its test tones are pretty damn accurate. I have a Galaxy SPL meter as well that's super expensive and accurate, but doesn't set the speaker levels any better.


Can't move the seat closer because it's a huge sectional. The other end would end up blocking the window as well as the left speaker.
Can't add a chair dead center because wifey has a giant coffee table there. I do sit on the coffee table from time to time to listen. It's in a good spot. The left speaker is about 18 inches from the side wall and almost 6 feet from the back wall. The right speaker is only 1 foot from the right, half wall/counter. The same 6 feet from the back wall. Both are heavily towed in. The right one points to the left seat while the left one points at the right seat.
The room is 14Wx26L. The right side opens up into the kitchen & dining room at around 7 feet (see the picture in post 51. They have been moved forward since that pic). The counter goes another 6 feet. The whole "great room" is 28 wide by 26 long.
No wall panels yet.

To be honest, I can't think of anything simple to improve what you've done off the top of my head. I can appreciate not wanting to compromise the house plan just for an HT.


Sometimes I think that I'd like to move them to the pool room where it's 25x25. A nice 2 channel system would be great. My speakers down there are 20 feet apart. But how could I take such beautiful speakers out of our living room and banish them to the basement? That's just wrong!

That's kinda what I did, the 2 channel system is in another room altogether that is not exactly the most efficient use of living space, but makes for a great 2-ch room and practice area. Of course, my speakers are ugly and covered in carpet so banishing them to another part of the home made sense. My wife has been pretty good about the audio stuff...

Ugh...I will be in yet another new home in 2008...dunno what I'm going to do. An HT room is a must. I doubt it's going to be the 24 X 20 I have now. Actually, I'd like it smaller, but not too small...maybe 20 x 14. Hmmm...Just when things were coming together perfectly...:(

[GMichael]

I like the analog better just because I can eyeball the needle movement during peaks etc...don't think it really matters. I have DVE and AVIA for calibration discs. To be honest, for speaker calibration, YPAO and its test tones are pretty damn accurate. I have a Galaxy SPL meter as well that's super expensive and accurate, but doesn't set the speaker levels any better.

Thanks. It looks like RS has them back in stock now. Can the YPAO be used by me to calibrate the subs? Between the Titanic and the 2 Mini's I have several adjustments to make for base. Knobs, knobs knobs, there are enough d'm knobs. So far, I've just been doing it by ear. It would be nice to graph the frequency curve. Does the YPAO put out white noise and the SPL will let me choose frequencies one by one? Or do I need a test CD that puts out the frequencies one by one?



To be honest, I can't think of anything simple to improve what you've done off the top of my head. I can appreciate not wanting to compromise the house plan just for an HT.

It does sound nicer to me than anything I've spent time with. (Although those 3.6's I heard were d'm nice) I've been thinking about the panels since you brought them up. Really only have room for one though. I could use some on the ceiling for the surrounds. Lowering them would be better. Not so concerned with them right now as I've been concentrating on getting the two channels down first.


That's kind of what I did, the 2 channel system is in another room altogether that is not exactly the most efficient use of living space, but makes for a great 2-ch room and practice area. Of course, my speakers are ugly and covered in carpet so banishing them to another part of the home made sense. My wife has been pretty good about the audio stuff...

Right now my DIY speakers are in the basement and garage. They sound better than they have a right to for what they cost me to build. (about $100 each total) Not too ugly, as I've built many in the past and have learned how to make them fairly nice. But nothing like how the Mini's look. Not sure how long it takes them to get that finish but it's beyond what I can do.


Ugh...I will be in yet another new home in 2008...dunno what I'm going to do. An HT room is a must. I doubt it's going to be the 24 X 20 I have now. Actually, I'd like it smaller, but not too small...maybe 20 x 14. Hmmm...Just when things were coming together perfectly...:(

Congrats. It's great to have a new project. Don't forget to take lots of pics. I assume you'll be wiring everything ahead of time to hide the wires etc. Will there be a projector in your future? I see a few 1080p models in the $3k range. There are a few DIY screens projects out there that will get you a nice screen in the 100 to 200 range. Even a couple that are less. How far are you moving? Will it be bigger? Will there be a moose running around the yard?

[kexodusc]

Thanks. It looks like RS has them back in stock now. Can the YPAO be used by me to calibrate the subs? Between the Titanic and the 2 Mini's I have several adjustments to make for base. Knobs, knobs knobs, there are enough d'm knobs. So far, I've just been doing it by ear. It would be nice to graph the frequency curve. Does the YPAO put out white noise and the SPL will let me choose frequencies one by one? Or do I need a test CD that puts out the frequencies one by one?
Uhh - yeah, come to think of it...my Yammie has bass test tones at least..the most this is good for is setting by ear/spl meter though. It won't do PEQ below 80 Hz or so. Which is fine. Wow...I've been on the road in 2007 as much as I've been home, haven't spent much time with that unit so you'll have to read your manual for the exact how-to's, I had to think about this one.

You'd probably want a test cd for calibrating your subs, or just use music you like and set it at a point that floats your boat.
For test tones, look at the old threads about the BFD - find the BFD guide site and you'll find a link to the sine wave/test tones mp3's you can download.
I don't have that link on my laptop or I'd post it.



It does sound nicer to me than anything I've spent time with. (Although those 3.6's I heard were d'm nice) I've been thinking about the panels since you brought them up. Really only have room for one though. I could use some on the ceiling for the surrounds. Lowering them would be better. Not so concerned with them right now as I've been concentrating on getting the two channels down first.

They're cheap to make if you decide you need a few.


Right now my DIY speakers are in the basement and garage. They sound better than they have a right to for what they cost me to build. (about $100 each total) Not too ugly, as I've built many in the past and have learned how to make them fairly nice. But nothing like how the Mini's look. Not sure how long it takes them to get that finish but it's beyond what I can do.
I didn't know you were a DIY-er...you'll have to tell me about some of your projects.




Congrats. It's great to have a new project. Don't forget to take lots of pics. I assume you'll be wiring everything ahead of time to hide the wires etc. Will there be a projector in your future? I see a few 1080p models in the $3k range. There are a few DIY screens projects out there that will get you a nice screen in the 100 to 200 range. Even a couple that are less. How far are you moving? Will it be bigger? Will there be a moose running around the yard?

Uggh...this isn't exactly turning out to be my kind of project.
We're either moving rather far away (Australia), or settling down in here in Canada in a more long-term, family-startin' house. Really,it's 50/50 either way at this point. All I know is my home will be sold and a new one purchased. If it's here, we'll build a home the way we want it, if it's down under, well, we'll take what we can get. But I probably will sell or give away most of my gear and start over in Australia.

If I'm still here, I promised myself an IB subwoofer system. A projector is likely in store, though I doubt I'll spend $3K on it. Dunno if I can justify $3K for 1080p. Might get cheaper one at first. I struggle to watch enough on my TV. :( But maybe I'll splurge.
Yeah, I guess I could consider that a fun project. It'll soften the blow disappointment of
not being able to move to Australia.
Great thing about buying a house in NB, Canada compared to Atlanta - heck, Bangor even - half the money buys twice the house!

[GMichael]

Uhh - yeah, come to think of it...my Yammie has bass test tones at least..the most this is good for is setting by ear/spl meter though. It won't do PEQ below 80 Hz or so. Which is fine. Wow...I've been on the road in 2007 as much as I've been home, haven't spent much time with that unit so you'll have to read your manual for the exact how-to's, I had to think about this one.

Yeah, it doesn't get the base on it's own. Wasn't sure if the test tones were useful to me to set the base manually or not. I'm guessing no at this point.


You'd probably want a test cd for calibrating your subs, or just use music you like and set it at a point that floats your boat.
For test tones, look at the old threads about the BFD - find the BFD guide site and you'll find a link to the sine wave/test tones mp3's you can download.
I don't have that link on my laptop or I'd post it.

I saved the link to the BFD thread with Wooch's graphs on my work computer. LJ brought it up again on the MKIII thread I started.


They're cheap to make if you decide you need a few.

These are on that MKIII thread also.


I didn't know you were a DIY-er...you'll have to tell me about some of your projects.

Yeah, made my first set back in 78. How old were you back then?:idea: I friend of mine worked at a place were they did warranty replacements of drivers for Genisis speakers. He had bought a few replacements and was planning to build a set. He didn't get to them right away and needed to leave for school. I traded him my Pioneer Project 100a's for the components and his "how to build a speaker" book from 1947. Those speakers lasted until 2005 when my basement flooded. The tweeters are still in use in one of the sets I built to replace them. They live in my garrage now. The 4 woofers were rotted beyond repair.


Uggh...this isn't exactly turning out to be my kind of project.
We're either moving rather far away (Australia), or settling down in here in Canada in a more long-term, family-startin' house. Really,it's 50/50 either way at this point. All I know is my home will be sold and a new one purchased. If it's here, we'll build a home the way we want it, if it's down under, well, we'll take what we can get. But I probably will sell or give away most of my gear and start over in Australia.

I hope you get the one that makes you the happiest. Dibbs on the amps.


If I'm still here, I promised myself an IB subwoofer system. A projector is likely in store, though I doubt I'll spend $3K on it. Dunno if I can justify $3K for 1080p. Might get cheaper one at first. I struggle to watch enough on my TV. :( But maybe I'll splurge.
Yeah, I guess I could consider that a fun project. It'll soften the blow disappointment of
not being able to move to Australia.
Great thing about buying a house in NB, Canada compared to Atlanta - heck, Bangor even - half the money buys twice the house!

Oh, a sub system huh? Sounds like thunder.
Those projectors are coming down fast. They'll be less by next year. And you could always watch that Rush DVD over and over on the big screen.

[GMichael]

Kex,

I think this is the CD that LJ recomended. http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/softframes.html

It looks like a good choice to use with the RS meter.

[kexodusc]

Yeah, it doesn't get the base on it's own. Wasn't sure if the test tones were useful to me to set the base manually or not. I'm guessing no at this point.
Just ball park it by ear then, if it sounds good to you who cares?



Yeah, made my first set back in 78. How old were you back then?:idea: '78? Wow, they had speakers back then? Well, if you made them Dec1 or after, we could measure my age in days.



I hope you get the one that makes you the happiest. Dibbs on the amps.
Yeah me too...I just don't know which one that is...It'll work itself out - win/win either way.



Oh, a sub system huh? Sounds like thunder.
Those projectors are coming down fast. They'll be less by next year. And you could always watch that Rush DVD over and over on the big screen.
I've struck a compromise with my wife after you mentioned projector...I'm likely getting a kitchen layout I really don't care too much about either way now, but woo hoo, the projector is a go.
Yeah, IB subs ,IMO, the best way to go both music and HT. Unfortunately they're the least WAF-compatible. Ya pretty much have to build your room/house with them in mind.

Lemme see...Projector, new HT chairs, amp for subs, BluRay/HD-DVD player...this house is gonna cost me and I haven't even started on the house yet :D

[GMichael]

Just ball park it by ear then, if it sounds good to you who cares?

That's what I've been doing so far. But it seems like every day I'm fuxing with it. Increase this knob, decrease that knob, switch this, turn that. I always like what I end up with better than what I started with, until the next day.



'78? Wow, they had speakers back then? Well, if you made them Dec1 or after, we could measure my age in days.

Ha ha.. Yeah, we even had indoor plumbing back then.


Yeah me too...I just don't know which one that is...It'll work itself out - win/win either way.

That's good. Winning is best.


I've struck a compromise with my wife after you mentioned projector...I'm likely getting a kitchen layout I really don't care too much about either way now, but woo hoo, the projector is a go.
Yeah, IB subs ,IMO, the best way to go both music and HT. Unfortunately they're the least WAF-compatible. Ya pretty much have to build your room/house with them in mind.


Did the same with my wife. She got the quartz counter tops and I got the two projectors. Now she loves them to death. They take up next to no room at all. Projector on the ceiling and a screen on the wall. Something had to go on that wall anyhow. The screen looks cool and everyone who walks into our house gasps when they see it. "Is THAT your TV? WOW!" You could always get curtains for it if she wants you to. That's easy enough. The one in the bedroom has a motorized screen. One push of a button and it rolls itself up and out of the way. Don't forget lighting control. Even the new high output projectors don't like much light. But you'd be surprised how much light you can have without a problem if it's done right.

IB subs? You may have already posted these but could I see them again? You never know what projects may come up, if and when money becomes less of an issue.


Lemme see...Projector, new HT chairs, amp for subs, BluRay/HD-DVD player...this house is gonna cost me and I haven't even started on the house yet :D

Tell me about it. I sold my Harley to afford all these upgrades. But it does seem like more and more people are getting killed riding lately. You can do everything right and still end up as a wet spot on the road.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Kex,

I think this is the CD that LJ recomended. http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/softframes.html

It looks like a good choice to use with the RS meter.


This is the exact setup I use and I seem to have good results from it. This has freq. bands that are calibrated specifically for the RS meters.

[GMichael]

This is the exact setup I use and I seem to have good results from it. This has freq. bands that are calibrated specifically for the RS meters.

It looks like the Rives Audio CD 2 is meant specifically for the analog RS meter. I don't know if the digital is any different but they did mention analog by name.

I just ordered the CD and am about to order the meter.

[Luvin Da Blues]

It looks like the Rives Audio CD 2 is meant specifically for the analog RS meter. I don't know if the digital is any different but they did mention analog by name.

I just ordered the CD and am about to order the meter.


Actually GM, the Rives disk has two sets of tones. One is flat and the other is calibrated for the RS analogue meter.

Not sure if you're gunna be able to read the meter with all the pink glare tho. :prrr:

[E-Stat]

It looks like the Rives Audio CD 2 is meant specifically for the analog RS meter. I don't know if the digital is any different but they did mention analog by name.
The corrections are slightly different for the analog and digital models. You can find correction curves by Googling the topic. I use the digital unit and use a spreadsheet that plugs in the appropriate correction. FWIW, I use the Stereophile test disks.

Your wife would probably shoot me for suggesting this, but sometimes setting the system diagonally in a corner works very well sonically and minimizes the open wall effect you face now. On second thought, that won't work very well with your huge screen. :)

rw

[GMichael]

The corrections are slightly different for the analog and digital models. You can find correction curves by Googling the topic. I use the digital unit and use a spreadsheet that plugs in the appropriate correction. FWIW, I use the Stereophile test disks.

I ordered the Rives CD and analog meter already. They should work and play nicely together. The analog says that it has a jack for an external mic. Wonder if the mic that came with the Yammie would make it possible for me to hold the meter in my hand while testing.



Your wife would probably shoot me for suggesting this, but sometimes setting the system diagonally in a corner works very well sonically and minimizes the open wall effect you face now. On second thought, that won't work very well with your huge screen. :)

rw

I always thought that was a no no. But anyway, as you pointed out, it won't work for my living room. Now the basement? I have lots of room there to move things around. In fact, this would help our layout a bit if I could do it. The TV would fit in the corner much better than in front of the door. It would put the left speaker very close to the pool table though. I wonder if speakers and pool sticks get along. Do you think they'd fight?