Speaker placement and driver care suggestions? Bose, ADS, Technics, any thoughts?

[Figit090]

hi everybody, i'm relatively new to these forums, but the site has been helping me for some time in my audio purchases as it's the first place i come for reviews before i choose to buy.

note: i'm sort of a newbie (that's more of a careful warning)

I was just on vacation and i picked up these two Analog & Digital Systems Inc. (ADS) speakers not knowing ANYTHING about them, because they were very VERY low priced, and after some close inspection they looked to be of good build quality with rubber surrounds and what i believed was a high-quality tweeter i only usually see on expensive tower speakers. Plus bothering to add fuse protection for the tweeter made me think they were at least worth a bit, so i tested them out with a cheap stereo and they sounded decent so i snapped them up. Low and behold i learned a bit during research and they are relatively high-end speakers (and VERY heavy), and sold for a decent amount on ebay. I dont know much about them though and i was hoping maybe someone could suggest proper placement and care so they will last as long for me as they have for whoever decided to get rid of them.

Here is a specific question about speaker care; In my bose 401's (in the pic on the left) I either neglected to notice when i bought them used, OR i myself damaged one of the tweeters and caused it to loose it's brightness. Basically I believe that would be considered as blown but since it still makes some sound i suspect the little voice coil is just about fried but still conducts so it still puts out a little. compared to the other channel speaker it's very muffled and almost not making any sound worth mention. (any thoughts or help on fixing that or finding a replacement tweeter is welcome)
Now that i have another chance at a nice pair of main front speakers, I don't want to ruin them, and i wanted to know how i should limit myself in experimentation with volumes and treble/bass adjustment so i don't ruin these rare and old speakers.

the tweeters in the L520's have fuses so do i have to worry about ruining them with excessive volume or trebble boost? i'm not experienced enough to know how "bright" they should sound and i don't want to crank the treble so much and/or crank them so loud that they fry.

also, how do i clean them? i lightly felt the surface with my fingertip (without pressure so as not to push the dome in, and on the edge of the driver, not the top) to see if it was a hard or sticky surface, and as some on here probably know it doesn't appear to be the easiest thing to clean because it seems soft. There is a bit of dust i'd like to remove but im not sure how.

well i guess that's all for now. if you guys want to comment on any of the speakers in that pic feel free. i'm trying to learn what is supposed to be considered good sound or even exceptional sound and how far away i am. with all the audiophiles out there it makes me wonder what it's like to experience sound perfection and without knowing someone with that already, it's hard to tell how close i've come. it's all relative i suppose, but yeah, what do you think? How would those Technics speakers compare to others? they seem decent but not that great, but i dont want to underestimate a good thing. my new ADS speakers seem to produce better bass and highs though, the only thing the Technics seem to do better is the mid frequencies but i've barely had a day to mess with the new speakers.

Speakers in pic;

left; bose 401 - first edition, not the 87 model
middle; ADS L520's - dusty, i just got them and haven't had a chance to clean them yet.
right; Technics SB-L50's - i think i've seen similar ones with a sony badge? not sure, its been awhile
bottom left; Ultimate sound ST-1212 sub.

thanks for looking! let me know if anyone wants any more info or pics. I'll post up my amp and speaker watt/ohm ratings in a minute.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g252/rcfreak090/DSC06757.jpg

[pixelthis]

Do you WANT people to abuse you?
(just kidding)
Placement for any bose speaker is critical, you could get a ticket for "placing" them in the wrong dumpster is what I would usually say but those look interesting.
Bose is big on "direct reflected" music, whatever that is, bouncing sound off the wall, etc.
Good luck with those.
Technics arent known for their speakers but you might have some fun with those vintage ones, just dont crank em too bad , older speakers are delicate sometimes
And welcome to this forum, and dont pay any attention to what some might say about me:hand:

[JohnMichael]

Welcome to AudioReview. Good snag on the ADS speakers. I miss my pair from years ago. The tweeter domes were treated with a coating that as you noted is sticky and of course collects dust. I would not try to clean them. You might remove the coating or as you mentioned damage the tweeter. They are fused but those are to protect the tweeters from too much power but a lot of tweeters are damaged by driving a low output amp or receiver into clipping distortion and the fuses will not protect them in that instance. I would not use treble boost with theses speakers. As I remember they had very nice balanced highs. I would listen to them without bass or treble boost for awhile as you get used to the sound of the speakers.

You should be able to order a new tweeter from Bose. I have seen tweeters that look like the ones used in the Bose 401's but I do not know if they would match up. As you may have noticed Bose is a name that has a few detractors here but I think they would be worth repairing. Of course I also think the ADS will give you a better glimpse into accurate sound reproduction.

[dingus]

dont touch the ADS tweeters, just keep the grills on and they will be fine.

[Figit090]

thanks a lot for the info guys. and yeah, i had forgotten the kinda cult-like group of haters developed towards bose...and i know why....i think. it's because of their trickery into making you think you have good speakers right? the soundstaging in the store, and the cabinet design promoting a sound pleasing to the ear, but a sound that is truly muddy and nowhere close to the sounds they should be producing? yeah...thats about all i know. i only payed 40 dollars for them at a thrift store. and i got this pare of ADS at a thrift store as well...for only three dollars. so i believe all in all i made it pretty well as far as cost. :p

I think i might run the main speakers through the sub first as it has a crossover, and from what i remember that also removes the bass from the signal sent to the mains...unless you guys know any issues with this hurting the other frequencies when it sucks out the low ones.

here is what is written on the back of the ADS speakers;
8ohms nominal --------- 6ohms minimum <-that got messed up with dust in the pic, it does say 6
50 watts nominal -----100watts maximum
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g252/rcfreak090/DSC06749.jpg

ok here's what my amp specifications say in the manual, i have a Teac AG-V8060 amp:

output frount, F.T.C. rating: 130watts RMS per channel minimum both channels driven into 8ohms from 20Hz to 20k kHz

RMS power (40Hz - 20kHz): 130 watts/8ohms

Surround Output Power (0.5% THD, 1kHz, 8 ohms): 100+100watts (front), 100watts (center), 100watts (rear)

so with all that i'm assuming my output power is 100watts in surround setup and 130watts in stereo setup?

and i dont really have a good idea how to interpret the back of the ADS speakers. i'm new at all these terms, i used to be more familliar with RMS and other such ratings about a year ago but i've forgotten how it all works :( i think i know that RMS means the peak output at the top of the electronic pulse but i forgot. residual mean squared? lol...i forgot. i'll just wait for help, i think i need it.:confused5: :idea:

thanks again for all your help everybody.

[pixelthis]

thanks a lot for the info guys. and yeah, i had forgotten the kinda cult-like group of haters developed towards bose...and i know why....i think. it's because of their trickery into making you think you have good speakers right? the soundstaging in the store, and the cabinet design promoting a sound pleasing to the ear, but a sound that is truly muddy and nowhere close to the sounds they should be producing? yeah...thats about all i know. i only payed 40 dollars for them at a thrift store. and i got this pare of ADS at a thrift store as well...for only three dollars. so i believe all in all i made it pretty well as far as cost. :p

I think i might run the main speakers through the sub first as it has a crossover, and from what i remember that also removes the bass from the signal sent to the mains...unless you guys know any issues with this hurting the other frequencies when it sucks out the low ones.

here is what is written on the back of the ADS speakers;
8ohms nominal --------- 6ohms minimum <-that got messed up with dust in the pic, it does say 6
50 watts nominal -----100watts maximum
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g252/rcfreak090/DSC06749.jpg

ok here's what my amp specifications say in the manual, i have a Teac AG-V8060 amp:

output frount, F.T.C. rating: 130watts RMS per channel minimum both channels driven into 8ohms from 20Hz to 20k kHz

RMS power (40Hz - 20kHz): 130 watts/8ohms

Surround Output Power (0.5% THD, 1kHz, 8 ohms): 100+100watts (front), 100watts (center), 100watts (rear)

so with all that i'm assuming my output power is 100watts in surround setup and 130watts in stereo setup?

and i dont really have a good idea how to interpret the back of the ADS speakers. i'm new at all these terms, i used to be more familliar with RMS and other such ratings about a year ago but i've forgotten how it all works :( i think i know that RMS means the peak output at the top of the electronic pulse but i forgot. residual mean squared? lol...i forgot. i'll just wait for help, i think i need it.:confused5: :idea:

thanks again for all your help everybody.
Everybody gets these kinda deals but me, the only kind of speakers at my thrift store are old sound design crap.
Anyway RMS is the only honest way to rate an amp.
Yours has a really high distortion but dont worry, it probably wont be a factor.
Looks like it matches the ADS really good, but again dont worry, even at high vollume
levels most amps only put out a few watts or so, it takes a rediculosy low amout of power to produce room filling sound, besides you only paid three bucks right?
The most important thing is do you like em?
As for BOSE of course I hate em, doesnt every music lover?
But those you have as I remember have little grilles to cover the drivers and sounded pretty good with a woofer, they were real light on bass, and you can use a different
tweeter replacement but you will have to put a matching one on the other speaker as well

[Figit090]

Everybody gets these kinda deals but me, the only kind of speakers at my thrift store are old sound design crap.
Anyway RMS is the only honest way to rate an amp.
Yours has a really high distortion but dont worry, it probably wont be a factor.
Looks like it matches the ADS really good, but again dont worry, even at high vollume
levels most amps only put out a few watts or so, it takes a rediculosy low amout of power to produce room filling sound, besides you only paid three bucks right?
The most important thing is do you like em?
As for BOSE of course I hate em, doesnt every music lover?
But those you have as I remember have little grilles to cover the drivers and sounded pretty good with a woofer, they were real light on bass, and you can use a different
tweeter replacement but you will have to put a matching one on the other speaker as well
You'll find a deal sooner or later. it takes patience and TIME. search craigslist if you don't already, and if you dont mind make the extra stop into a thrift store you havent been into in a week or so. i go to LOTS of thrift stores. i usually hit anywhere from 3 to 4 local ones in a day whenever i haven't gone in a while, that way there's new stuff out, and a week usually is a short enough time that the good deals are still there. those ADS speakers didn't look nice from the outside though and were there for 10 days. put those together and any non-audio enthusiast wouldn't have a CHANCE of buying them. so i got lucky. all my audio purchases are used however, and 90 percent of them are thrift store items. and yes everything works fine until i break it, like the bose 401's...lol. i don't buy crap. except this one 8 dollar set i bought for the hell of it to see what they'd sound like. they have decent bass and i currently use one in my garage and it fills the whole place pretty well. i'd use both but i blew the other channel in my old technics stereo amp because i was ignorant, lazy, and didn't use the speaker circuit protection fuse (bridged it...dumb, i know).
but anyway...

you were talking about the 401's when you mentioned they were good with a woofer, right? i'd give it a try but i think i might just sell them and make some $$$. and all of my speakers including the woofer have grilles but i figured taking a picture of them with the grills on was pointless.... and if you didnt remember the 401's have rear reflecting drivers as well. and i did a search on here for "bose 401" and noooot much came up. and when bose came up, i heard bas stuff. haha....

as for the THD on my amp, it shows several in the manual - it says:

FTC Rating: .....no more than .09% THD (USA/Canada)
Surround output power (.5% THD 1kHz, 8 ohms)
100+100watts (front)
100 watts (center)
100 watts (rear)
Total Harmonic Distortion (Front): .02% (at 120 watts, 1kHz)

so i'm not really sure about the THD. maybe the surround part is a typo...since it mentions the watts for the front channels under that but then goes on to say that the THD for the front is .02%

whatever... i'm not even sure how to interpret that nor do i think i will care.

[pixelthis]

You'll find a deal sooner or later. it takes patience and TIME. search craigslist if you don't already, and if you dont mind make the extra stop into a thrift store you havent been into in a week or so. i go to LOTS of thrift stores. i usually hit anywhere from 3 to 4 local ones in a day whenever i haven't gone in a while, that way there's new stuff out, and a week usually is a short enough time that the good deals are still there. those ADS speakers didn't look nice from the outside though and were there for 10 days. put those together and any non-audio enthusiast wouldn't have a CHANCE of buying them. so i got lucky. all my audio purchases are used however, and 90 percent of them are thrift store items. and yes everything works fine until i break it, like the bose 401's...lol. i don't buy crap. except this one 8 dollar set i bought for the hell of it to see what they'd sound like. they have decent bass and i currently use one in my garage and it fills the whole place pretty well. i'd use both but i blew the other channel in my old technics stereo amp because i was ignorant, lazy, and didn't use the speaker circuit protection fuse (bridged it...dumb, i know).
but anyway...

you were talking about the 401's when you mentioned they were good with a woofer, right? i'd give it a try but i think i might just sell them and make some $$$. and all of my speakers including the woofer have grilles but i figured taking a picture of them with the grills on was pointless.... and if you didnt remember the 401's have rear reflecting drivers as well. and i did a search on here for "bose 401" and noooot much came up. and when bose came up, i heard bas stuff. haha....

as for the THD on my amp, it shows several in the manual - it says:

FTC Rating: .....no more than .09% THD (USA/Canada)
Surround output power (.5% THD 1kHz, 8 ohms)
100+100watts (front)
100 watts (center)
100 watts (rear)
Total Harmonic Distortion (Front): .02% (at 120 watts, 1kHz)

so i'm not really sure about the THD. maybe the surround part is a typo...since it mentions the watts for the front channels under that but then goes on to say that the THD for the front is .02%

whatever... i'm not even sure how to interpret that nor do i think i will care.

Just for future reference (even tho you dont care) in stereo the THD is almost always lower,
kick into surround and it drops, probably because of the extra pull from the power supply,
and the rear channel amps arent usually as "nice":ihih:

[Figit090]

Just for future reference (even tho you dont care) in stereo the THD is almost always lower,
kick into surround and it drops, probably because of the extra pull from the power supply,
and the rear channel amps arent usually as "nice":ihih:

good lord i noticed that last one. i'm almost tempted to ditch the rear channels because i've been liking stereo or 3 channel (with center)....the rears are muddy as heck and the signal processing sounds like poo... but it's good for war video games and some movies and adds a little "ambiance" to the music...lol. when i turn off the mains it's horrible but all together its alright.

i might post up pics later once i clean off the entertainment center top. everything else is situated except i'm having issues hooking up my sub....

it has multiple ins and outs, RCA and powered speaker cable inputs, but i think i like the main speaker performance better straight VS through the sub first so i'm going to use the subwoofer output on my amp.

the problem i have now is stereo inputs on my sub. the left in RCA says "SUB/Left" so i'm guessing thats what you use if you have a single sub pre-out but i took the single sub pre-out on my amp and ran it through a splitter into stereo RCA cables then to the sub for a stronger signal. now i have more than enough bass and the mains will get the full spectrum of sound....bad idea or am i fine?

i think this is ok...but i'm not sure what the common thing to do is...i guess whatever sounds best?

these ADS speakers sure can move, but for their throw they sure don't have much bass. they go pretty low but not too low. placing them close to the corners helps but its not quite enough so the sub is a must. they have the clarity and add the proper frequencies to make low sounds sound good and the sub gives them punch. and with my extra sub signal i can turn the bass down and the sub up so the mains dont have to work as hard.


thanks for your help everybody!! :cornut:

[Luvin Da Blues]

it has multiple ins and outs, RCA and powered speaker cable inputs, but i think i like the main speaker performance better straight VS through the sub first so i'm going to use the subwoofer output on my amp.

the problem i have now is stereo inputs on my sub. the left in RCA says "SUB/Left" so i'm guessing thats what you use if you have a single sub pre-out but i took the single sub pre-out on my amp and ran it through a splitter into stereo RCA cables then to the sub for a stronger signal. now i have more than enough bass and the mains will get the full spectrum of sound....bad idea or am i fine?

i think this is ok...but i'm not sure what the common thing to do is...i guess whatever sounds best?

thanks for your help everybody!! :cornut:

Yep, what sounds best to your ears.

I run a pair of subs and this is exactly how I have them hooked up. I split the sub out signal at the receiver. Then separate cables to each sub where I split it again to the L & R inputs. Some sub gurus actually recommend this.

Does your receiver have internal sub cross over points? You want to have the signals cross over from the sub to your main speakers as seamlessly as possible, if not, you will want to set the roll off freq. of the sub at a point where this occurs. Check the specs on your main speakers to help determine where this point is as a start. Of course this will vary depending on speaker placement and room acoustics.

Do you have a sound level meter and a test disk? this makes for a easier install.

[Figit090]

Yep, what sounds best to your ears.

I run a pair of subs and this is exactly how I have them hooked up. I split the sub out signal at the receiver. Then separate cables to each sub where I split it again to the L & R inputs. Some sub gurus actually recommend this.

Does your receiver have internal sub cross over points? You want to have the signals cross over from the sub to your main speakers as seamlessly as possible, if not, you will want to set the roll off freq. of the sub at a point where this occurs. Check the specs on your main speakers to help determine where this point is as a start. Of course this will vary depending on speaker placement and room acoustics.

Do you have a sound level meter and a test disk? this makes for a easier install.

that sounds cool, at least i'm doing something somewhat right :) I'm not sure if it has 'internal cross over points' i'll have to google that one. it does have a crossover frequency knob, but i can't tell if it actually effects the output signal sent to the mains once it's dropped the lows to the sub... i turned it this way and that with the sub turned down so i could listen to the mains and i can't hear any variation in bass either way, with the sub powered on or off... so maybe its just the roll-off frequency where the sub comes in? i KNOW that i can adjust at least that much because its obvious. i'll find a picture of what i've got so i dont have to type out all the figures.

I don't have a sound level meter or a test disk.... would it be possible to make my own test disk via download & burn if i can find the appropriate file?

[Chaos01]

Figit090,
If you wanna get rid of your Bose 401's that you don't need Let me know A.S.A.P.
Thanks

[Figit090]

Figit090,
If you wanna get rid of your Bose 401's that you don't need Let me know A.S.A.P.
Thanks

WOW I didn't expect a post on this, let alone interest in the speakers.

Sending you a PM...:biggrin5: