What would you do?

[Mr Peabody]

With the free movie incentive and Blu-ray at a more reasonable price I was ready to reel in a Panasonic DMP-BD10ak. BUT, there are none to be found anywhere, including the Panasonic direct store. I could potentially get a total of 10 free movies with the Panasonic which lists for $599.00. The Sony s300 lists at $499.00 and I could still get 5 free movies sent to me at some point. I paid about $450.00 some years ago for my Denon 1600, so I figure these prices for the Blu-ray are pretty good. The Sony is on the street and ready to go, I can walk in BB and get one now.

So, with the above scenario, would you;

a) Wait for the Panasonic
b) Grab a Sony now
c) Wait period, and let the war rage on some more
d) none of the above. ______________ give reason why

Things to consider, is the $100.00 difference worth the other 5 movies, is there any quality difference between the s300 and BD10, is there another brand entirely I should consider, like the Phillips at $549.00, or will a player like the Elite at $1k or better give that much more performance for my dollar....???

Mr WIZARD!!!! Oh, beep!.... he's dead! I guess it's up to you guys

[musicman1999]

My pick would still be 3.I do believe that Blue ray will be the winner in this battle,but even free movies won't get me to change my mind.There is not much to pick from in the list of free movies.I am fortunate to have a high end dvd player and will wait till there is a player capable of doing for Bluray what my Moon can do for regular dvd.

bill

[pixelthis]

GET the sony, because you can get the sony.
Most "free movie" offers give you real stinkers anyway, sometimes they throw a nice one in the mix.
Just go with blu-ray, it'll be arouond a lot longer than beta(woops) HDDVD:yesnod:

[AVMASTER]

I haven't had the chance to play with the new Sony but if they have gotten rid of the problems with the first gen I'd say grab it! Enjoy it now, you might not be around tomorrow!

[nightflier]

Well, I agree that most free movie deals aren't really worth a lot (Sony has a silly table of selections where you can only pick movies from separate categories). I would also keep in mind the other discussions on this board about the catalogs of each format and what type of movie watcher you are (e.g. collector or new-releases-watcher). That said, there are some nitpicky differences between the two players, that I remember reading about:

- Even though one is Sony, neither player plays SACD , but the Panasonic does play DVD-A

- Funky, but the Panasonic will play both DVD-R/RW and CD-R/RWs with MP3s, the Sony will only play DVD-R/RW with MP3s

- The Panasonic has 7.1 analog outs, the Sony does not

- The Panasonic free movie deal ends one month sooner

- The Panasonic seems to have more robust sound capabilities such as more built-in decoders, different decoding chips, and seems to support more audio formats

- The Panasonic also is a tad larger and weighs slightly more, which I know is a simplistic comparison, but tends to be a good rule to follow

- The Sony has a back-lit remote (?), although I couldn't tell from the pictures

- The Panasonic has faster start-up, loading, and change-over times

- The Sony supports HDMI 1.3, the Panasonic does not

- The Panasonic has the edge in up-conversion quality for standard DVDs

I think that all-around the Panasonic is the better value, especially considering the extra 5 movies. For me the fact that nether player plays SACDs is a deal breaker (especially from Sony, those turncoats!). Now, I know it's hard to find, but if you order it online now through Panasonic directly, wouldn't the free DVD offers still apply?

[Rich-n-Texas]

nightflier's post would be enough to keep me in the Panasonic camp. I've never owned Sony products, but I do own two Panny CRT TV's and DVD players. No complaints about PQ from the TV's (one of which is approaching it's 20th birthday) and great audio/video quality from the players. And I'd think Panasonic would certainly honor their offer on the free DVD's when the units become available again. Take that time to do #c. Wait and see.

[Mr Peabody]

NF, where did you find some of that info? I didn't see anything about the HDMI not being 1.3, that seems odd,especially since that's the only output that will output 1080p or an upsampled signal. On the other hand, upscaling will be important. The analog outs too, if I want to take advantage of the HD audio formats without equipment upgrade.

Panasonic direct says the BD10a is backordered with none in sight for at least 30 days. I didn't think to ask if I ordered now if they will honor the movie offer, but I guess they'd have to. I was out at BB taking a look at the Blu ray movies for sale and I didn't see any under $30.00. This is a concern for me, I don't want to pay that much for movies. It may be a coincidence but I am starting to see DVD's being discounted. But it's hard to tell if it's the start of a wave or just...... well, a coincidence.

It looks like my indecisiveness may have be taking "c". I'm going to take a look at the Phillips features too.

[nightflier]

NF, where did you find some of that info? I didn't see anything about the HDMI not being 1.3, that seems odd,especially since that's the only output that will output 1080p or an upsampled signal.

I remember reading that in a review, can't remember exactly where. And this is not something that can be upgraded with software, something you might want to consider. Another minor point to consider is what brand your TV and other gear is, making the whole remote shuffle a lot easier. I have a Panasonic TV and will probably buy one of their flat screens someday soon, and my PVR is also Panasonic. Adding a Panasonic player allows me to use the same remote for most of the basic functions.

[westcott]

My suggestion is to get the best player for standard definition and high defenition, regardless of the number of free movies being offered. It is probably more cost effective to get a NetFlix account and rent all your discs then to buy them anyway.

Secrets of Home Theater rate the BD P1200 and the HD XA2 as two of the best players for both formats. The good news is that if one or both formats fall flat on their face, you still have a heck of a SD DVD player!!!!

DVD Player ShootOut (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all)

[Mr Peabody]

I've been doing a bit more research, Musicman got me thinking about just a DVD with great upconversion both the Denon 2930 and NAD 585 are almost double what the s300 would cost and good upconversion costs money. I think I read the review NF read, the Panasonic is not 1.3 but the writer says that's a non-issue since no player outputs the extras that you'd need 1.3 for. Again, it sounds like a horse got before the cart in order to get into the consumers pocket on this 1.3. I can not begin to express the lothing I have for HDMI and the crooks who are behind it. Shame on the rest of the industry for going along with it. But, I am digressing.

I read 2 reviews on the BD10 and 10a, it mentions it does a great job of upconverting SD. One review said it was better in some aspects on upconverting over the Denon 2910. There are several reviews of the s300, none of them mention how it does on upconverting. I about have my mind made up to pursue the BD10a. My processor does not have HDMI, so I'm not concerned about 1.3, this may come back to bite me in the future. The Sony has 5.1 analog outs which is all I would need at this point and it is going to be xv color compliant in the future, which were a couple of marks in it's plus colomn. Just the feel from the reviews I've read of both I'm leaning hard to the BD10a. Sometimes in reviews, if you put stock in them at all, it's more what isn't said than what is. One thing consistent about the BD10/a is everyone hates the remote Where comparisons were done with the BD10 and Samsung 1200, the BD10 was always preferred for PQ.

[musicman1999]

Just to clear up something Mr.Peabody,my Moon dvd player does not upconvert.It does 480p only.It is not a very well known player,it is high end that delivers the goods,also a very good cd player.I had an Arcam dv-137 in the house before it and the Moon trashed the Arcam,not even close.

bill

[Mr Peabody]

I was also going to say that in my research it seems that the little ole PS3 is the benchmark so far in Blu-ray players, being faster, playing SACD and having a quality picture. I can understand if you are like me and not interested in gaming but why in the world would anyone pay $1k or more for a stand alone player that is inferior to the PS3 in Blu-ray playback and functionality. So with new gen players on the horizon, I want to at least wait for one that will be as good as the PS3 in function and hopefully better in picture.

[westcott]

I was also going to say that in my research it seems that the little ole PS3 is the benchmark so far in Blu-ray players, being faster, playing SACD and having a quality picture. I can understand if you are like me and not interested in gaming but why in the world would anyone pay $1k or more for a stand alone player that is inferior to the PS3 in Blu-ray playback and functionality. So with new gen players on the horizon, I want to at least wait for one that will be as good as the PS3 in function and hopefully better in picture.

I guess you did not visit the link I provided. The two players I listed are the benchmark.

[Mr Peabody]

Westcott, I guess it depends on which review you read. From all the reviews I've read nothing is faster than the PS3. And both the Sony and Panasonic players were rated higher than the Samsung on CNET but they were referring to HD playback. The link you gave was for DVD playback. But at the time of the testing, the Samsung was boss in DVD scaling. I may have to give it a look. But they did mention that the BD1200 was lacking in new HD audio formats.

I use adaptive screen reading software and that article was lengthy and full of charts. Did you see the BD10ak or s300 in there?

[westcott]

Westcott, I guess it depends on which review you read. From all the reviews I've read nothing is faster than the PS3. And both the Sony and Panasonic players were rated higher than the Samsung on CNET but they were referring to HD playback. The link you gave was for DVD playback. But at the time of the testing, the Samsung was boss in DVD scaling. I may have to give it a look. But they did mention that the BD1200 was lacking in new HD audio formats.

I use adaptive screen reading software and that article was lengthy and full of charts. Did you see the BD10ak or s300 in there?

Secrets of Home Theater is a well respected web site in the audio\video world and offer very thorough and objective reviews. I hope that you get the chance one day to sit down and read all the artices and detailed information they provide on video and audio. The benchmarks they use are unlike any I have seen on any other website for video. They also offer some great information on audio equipment. I think you will agree with me that no one offers the in depth testing that Secrets does once you get a chance to review their site in detail beyond the benchmark testing. CNET just is not at the same level and is far more subjective in its approach. Good for customer reviews but not a site with a great deal of technical prowess.

[Mr Peabody]

I was thinking as I read the benchmark article that it was an incredible amount of work went into it.

When speaking of the PS3 as a benchmark, I was using the term loosely. It is just strange that certain aspects of the game console is superior to stand alone Blu-ray units.

Except for the LG combo, Blu-ray players are getting scarce. I wonder if a wave of new gen are on the horizon.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Secrets of Home Theater is a well respected web site in the audio\video world and offer very thorough and objective reviews.

Hey thanks for the link Westcott..just took a quick look. Can't have enough info at your disposal.

[Mr Peabody]

Westcott, thanks for drawing my attention back to your link, Amazon has the BDP1200 for $459.00, in stock. I'm going to check some reviews and see how it compares on HD, and I understand it doesn't have all the audio formats but at that price I'm really leaning toward the bdp1200 now. I'm in no hurry to replace my 1080i display and I can live with 5.1 for now.

[westcott]

I am glad I am able to help.

I did a great deal of research over the last few years in preparation for a home theater build. I just think it is great to be able to share information and resources I have found over this time period with people who are thirsty for knowledge and have a love for the hobby.

Good Luck and keep us posted on your progress.:)

[Mr Peabody]

I ended up ordering a Samsung BD-P1200. After reading what the Silicon Optics Radeon chips can do I'm confident in the bd-p1200's picture quality and upscaling ability. It is lacking in the new HD audio formats. Samsung is coming out with 2 new models this fall and only the more expensive one has the HQV, it's msrp is said to be $650.00 but we know how that goes. So I wanted to get the HQV at Amazon's low price of $459.00. The picture quality was most important to me. Actually, my HT audio is killer now and from reading Dolby and DTS web articles on how the HD formats work, I will still get improved sound quality, just not the full benefit if I had all the formats and used my analog connections. I could end up kicking myself down the road when all the new units start hitting but once I made up my mind I wanted a Blu-ray player, I couldn't wait that long.

Get this, I went into CC this weekend to look at the 1200, I told them Amazon had them at a lower price to see if they would match it. CC is selling the 1200 at $599.00. The guy told me they aren't allowed to match online prices. I explained If I bought from CC I'd still have to pay sales tax but I'd be willing to do it so I could get it today. They just weren't interested. I would have thought CC had at least as much buying power with all their stores. I know with stores comes over head but is Amazon that big. I'm sure they will be if they aren't now if this is what people can save.

[drseid]

Get this, I went into CC this weekend to look at the 1200, I told them Amazon had them at a lower price to see if they would match it. CC is selling the 1200 at $599.00. The guy told me they aren't allowed to match online prices. I explained If I bought from CC I'd still have to pay sales tax but I'd be willing to do it so I could get it today. They just weren't interested. I would have thought CC had at least as much buying power with all their stores. I know with stores comes over head but is Amazon that big. I'm sure they will be if they aren't now if this is what people can save.

Oh yeah, Amazon is definitely *that* big... They are certainly a bigger player than CC, and have far more buying power. That said, I think the price match not going through has less to do with buying power, and more to do with overhead. CC as a B&M store has a lot more OH than Amazon (solely web based), and as such, Amazon can sell at a lower gross margin and still make the same or great net profit than CC.

Congrats on the new player, by the way!

---Dave

[westcott]

I ended up ordering a Samsung BD-P1200. After reading what the Silicon Optics Radeon chips can do I'm confident in the bd-p1200's picture quality and upscaling ability. It is lacking in the new HD audio formats. Samsung is coming out with 2 new models this fall and only the more expensive one has the HQV, it's msrp is said to be $650.00 but we know how that goes. So I wanted to get the HQV at Amazon's low price of $459.00. The picture quality was most important to me. Actually, my HT audio is killer now and from reading Dolby and DTS web articles on how the HD formats work, I will still get improved sound quality, just not the full benefit if I had all the formats and used my analog connections. I could end up kicking myself down the road when all the new units start hitting but once I made up my mind I wanted a Blu-ray player, I couldn't wait that long.

Get this, I went into CC this weekend to look at the 1200, I told them Amazon had them at a lower price to see if they would match it. CC is selling the 1200 at $599.00. The guy told me they aren't allowed to match online prices. I explained If I bought from CC I'd still have to pay sales tax but I'd be willing to do it so I could get it today. They just weren't interested. I would have thought CC had at least as much buying power with all their stores. I know with stores comes over head but is Amazon that big. I'm sure they will be if they aren't now if this is what people can save.

Congratulations on your purchase. The Silicon Optic video processors are the cat's meow!!!! I too have been thinking about buying one of the two players suggested. My wife has asked for a DVD player in the bedroom and this is the best excuse I can find to move the Denon and upgrade the home theater room!!! It would have been nice to have support for DVD Audio, SACD, and lossless HD audio but you can't always have everything at this price.