I made the Bose blunder!

[GMichael]

Some of you may know that I am into pool. Over the weekend I was working as a referee for a pool tournament in CT. It's was at a very nice place. Everything looked upscale and clean. Much nicer and larger larger than our older tournament sites. But there was an issue with the sound. The walls were bare as bare could be. No acoustic tiles or even a picture or two to break up the sound. Fill this room with close to a thousand drinking pool players and the noise level was torture. The music system consisted of 6 small Bose speakers and a base module. The 6 speakers were mounted at the top of the south and north walls. They were angled down, pointed from there to the opposite walls near where the floor would meet them. The base module was mounted on a wall near the door. Every time there was an announcement, the music would cut off, and the anouncement would come through the same speakers. Everyone would turn to me to ask, "what did they say?" I would not know since I couldn't hear either. I took a break Sunday afternoon. (long days: from 8AM till 3 AM the next mornings) While standing outside to get out of the "sound hell" someone asked me what I thought of the new site. I told him that I liked it very much but that it had some sound issues. He agreed. I went on to say that they could fix it with a few acoustic tiles. He didn't seem to know what I meant but nodded. Then I said that they needed to get rid of those tiny Bose cubes and put in real speakers. A look of total shock came over his face. He said, "But Bose makes the best audio that money can buy." I started to laugh. About a dozen people turn to me. Their faces are bright red. The intense look on their faces was hard to describe. If looks could kill, I would have burst into flames at that moment. One yells, "BOSE IS THE BEST!!!" Another says, "yeah, if you're so smart, who do YOU think makes the best speakers?" I said, "Um... well... I don't really know who is the absolute 'best' but there are many who are better." More people start turning my way. The crowd starts to move in closer. I'm starting to fear for my life, but I push on. Someone yells, "WHAT KIND OF SPEAKERS DO YOU HAVE?" I'ya.. I have Infiniti speakers." So, you think INFINITY makes the best?" Um, no... but they are better than Bose. They aren't really anywhere near the best. Some would say that ML's are the best. Others would say Magnepans, or Apogees, or Totems or Ushers are the best. Some of these could cost up to $20k or more. But I've seen some that go for as much as 1/4 of a mil. I don't know if they are the BEST. What I do know, is that Bose is not.
It may have been a good thing that the tournament director stepped outside for a second to ask me some rule questions. It just may have saved my life. I got dirty looks from people the rest of the day.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I miss my pool table. :frown5:

This website and Bose have quite a history don't they? Someone in the Speakers section was questioning why a Bose topic got locked which seems to have brought RL back to life. Gotta love his attitude!

Personally I have no experience whatsoever with Bose, but I do sooo hate those wave radio commercials. Just who are they trying to kid... oh... wait... that's right! The general public. :frown2:

[GMichael]

I saw that thread. It even brought Flo out of retirement. I miss him.

I don't have anything against Bose really. They have a brilliant business plan. Their equipment isn't really all that bad, just not the best as they have Joe Average thinking. And the tiny speakers this place had, have no chance to fill that large of a room. Was like trying to have a concert in Central Park with my system. It ain gonna cut it.

[L.J.]

I have a friend who thinks this way. I went to his house after he got his 3K bose DVD/CD/AVR all in one system and I didn't have the heart to say anything. He's happy with it though and was preaching on and on about it but he has the slightest clue. While he was talking, I would glance at my wife everynow and then and give her a little wink (she's been hanging around me long enough to know better.........I know, I'm such a jerk).

So he does a demo for us. He has this hooked to 2K Pioneer plasma. Sounded OK but the bass was freakin weak. I have no true experience with Bose but not worth the 3K he spent if you ask me. The picture looked like crap as well. It looked so bad that I questioned how he had his system hooked up. Believe it or not, he had his 3K Bose thingie hooked up to his 2K plasma with a freakin' yellow composite video cable :yikes:

Can you believe it. I told him go pick up some component cables and he could increase his picture quality dramaticly and he brushed me off. Perhaps he saw me winking at wifee. I haven't asked if he ever picked up the component cables, but I will next time I'm at his place.

[GMichael]

I have a friend who thinks this way. I went to his house after he got his 3K bose DVD/CD/AVR all in one system and I didn't have the heart to say anything. He's happy with it though and was preaching on and on about it but he has the slightest clue. While he was talking, I would glance at my wife everynow and then and give her a little wink (she's been hanging around me long enough to know better.........I know, I'm such a jerk).

So he does a demo for us. He has this hooked to 2K Pioneer plasma. Sounded OK but the bass was freakin weak. I have no true experience with Bose but not worth the 3K he spent if you ask me. The picture looked like crap as well. It looked so bad that I questioned how he had his system hooked up. Believe it or not, he had his 3K Bose thingie hooked up to his 2K plasma with a freakin' yellow composite video cable :yikes:

Can you believe it. I told him go pick up some component cables and he could increase his picture quality dramaticly and he brushed me off. Perhaps he saw me winking at wifee. I haven't asked if he ever picked up the component cables, but I will next time I'm at his place.

That's funny.
Be very careful when you ask him. These Bose guys seem to get very upset if you question them. A couple of guys were turning colors. They went from pink to red to a purple color.

[kexodusc]

Those same people think Sony is one of the elite brands in home electronics, too.

I just avoid those conversations if at all possible - the only time you can talk about Bose to people is before they've made a purchase - save them.

Otherwise you're insulting what they've just dropped a lot of money on in blind faith that Bose is the best money can buy. It's a question of image, lifestyle, stature, etc...you can't win that one.

I'd love for Harman or someone to just go all out on the marketing, smear campaign and all, and put an end to it. Imagine the Coke vs Pepsi taste challenge commercials with speakers...10 outta 10, prefer the sound of Infinity or JBL to Bose..

Until then....

[Resident Loser]

That's funny.
Be very careful when you ask him. These Bose guys seem to get very upset if you question them. A couple of guys were turning colors. They went from pink to red to a purple color.

...that's simply a part of the "more expensive has to be better" mindset...An attitude which would seem not to be limited to Bavarian nimrods...

Anyone who would use Bose cubes/bass modules as a Muzak/page system should have their tiny little brains examined...They are what they are: high-in-WAF and easily installed in a home setting, quite suitable for reproducing laser-totin' mechanical lizards...a P.A. they ain't...

jimHJJ(...BTW, my limited participation is a result of this place bein' sooo efffin slow and otherwise tedious...)

[kexodusc]

jimHJJ(...BTW, my limited participation is a result of this place bein' sooo efffin slow and otherwise tedious...)

Hmmm, is everyone having problems here but me or something? Same as always from my perspective - more regular members on vacation this time of year...

[Rich-n-Texas]

In the morning (6:30 - 11:00 am CDT) the site moves along pretty well for me. Afternoon and evening is a different story. Pages load slow, "server is busy...", that type of thing. Although I've yet to see an instance where the Quick Reply box didn't appear. That one seems strange to me. Yes there are a lot of people complaining these days from where I'm sitting...

[GMichael]

Those same people think Sony is one of the elite brands in home electronics, too.

I just avoid those conversations if at all possible - the only time you can talk about Bose to people is before they've made a purchase - save them.

Otherwise you're insulting what they've just dropped a lot of money on in blind faith that Bose is the best money can buy. It's a question of image, lifestyle, stature, etc...you can't win that one.

I'd love for Harman or someone to just go all out on the marketing, smear campaign and all, and put an end to it. Imagine the Coke vs Pepsi taste challenge commercials with speakers...10 outta 10, prefer the sound of Infinity or JBL to Bose..

Until then....

Many people I talk to, do believe that Sony is the end all in electronics. Poor lost souls.

I didn't mean to insult them. Who knew that so many of them had fallen prey to Bose.

A good side by side would be nice. Where can we set this up?

[basite]

maybe you should invite them guys over to your place mike, and then post a pic of the looks on their faces :)

it's normal for bose owners to react aggressive, after all, how would you react if you spent alot of money on something and it turns out to be complate crap :)

keep them spinning,
Bert.

[GMichael]

...that's simply a part of the "more expensive has to be better" mindset...An attitude which would seem not to be limited to Bavarian nimrods...

Anyone who would use Bose cubes/bass modules as a Muzak/page system should have their tiny little brains examined...They are what they are: high-in-WAF and easily installed in a home setting, quite suitable for reproducing laser-totin' mechanical lizards...a P.A. they ain't...

jimHJJ(...BTW, my limited participation is a result of this place bein' sooo efffin slow and otherwise tedious...)

Many of the people at this tournament were from Rockland County. Been there? It's the land of BMW's and Mercedes. More money than brains. And a very deep embedded, "we're better than you are" way about them.

[GMichael]

maybe you should invite them guys over to your place mike, and then post a pic of the looks on their faces :)

it's normal for bose owners to react aggressive, after all, how would you react if you spent alot of money on something and it turns out to be complate crap :)

keep them spinning,
Bert.

My guess is that they would tell me that my system sounds OK, but not as good as a real system like their Bose. Some people do not want to know the truth. Denial (De' Nile) is not just a river in Egypt you know.

[FLZapped]

...that's simply a part of the "more expensive has to be better" mindset...An attitude which would seem not to be limited to Bavarian nimrods...

Anyone who would use Bose cubes/bass modules as a Muzak/page system should have their tiny little brains examined...They are what they are: high-in-WAF and easily installed in a home setting, quite suitable for reproducing laser-totin' mechanical lizards...a P.A. they ain't...

jimHJJ(...BTW, my limited participation is a result of this place bein' sooo efffin slow and otherwise tedious...)


Yeah, same attitude as one finds with cables. -Bruce

[PeruvianSkies]

If you were to poll 100 people on the street and have them name speaker manufactuers, specifically for home theater I think the general answer would probably be Bose, JBL, Sony, Yamaha, Klipsch, Polk, and a few others perhaps. We all see those silly commercials for Bose on TV where they hype them to death...."amazing", "wow", "quality"...yep it's the 3-2-1 system from Bose. Yippee!

Quite frankly the general public enjoy Bose for a few reasons: 1. easy to install. 2. small, compact, very discrete. 3. All-in-one system.

So people honestly believe that they are able to get small, compact, easy to install, all in one systems that sound great....who wouldn't want it? I mean, if they could make a speaker the size of a 3X3 cube that sounded like Apogee Grands, Dali Megalines, or Wilson audio I think we'd all jump at the offer. The problem is that people are not educated on that limit of quality and to some...the quality delivered by Bose is sufficient. Let's face it, if you haven't heard anything BETTER than Bose, than why would you think otherwise? Ignorance is no excuse though and that's why people like us need to be the ones educated our friends, family, pool players, whoever on that type of quality.

[bobsticks]

So people honestly believe that they are able to get small, compact, easy to install, all in one systems that sound great....who wouldn't want it? I mean, if they could make a speaker the size of a 3X3 cube that sounded like Apogee Grands, Dali Megalines, or Wilson audio I think we'd all jump at the offer. The problem is that people are not educated on that limit of quality and to some...the quality delivered by Bose is sufficient. Let's face it, if you haven't heard anything BETTER than Bose, than why would you think otherwise? Ignorance is no excuse though and that's why people like us need to be the ones educated our friends, family, pool players, whoever on that type of quality.

I agree with P-Sky and would extend the thought. I don't think it's merely that people aren't educated as to quality musical reproduction but in fact are ignorant as to quality instrumentation as well.How many kids out there never or rarely hear live music? How many people never hear music that is non-electronic based? If your point of reference is the car stereo or the speaks on your television anything is an improvement, especially if you don't know how an instrument is really supposed to sound in the first place.

[GMichael]

people like us need to be the ones educated our friends, family, pool players, whoever on that type of quality.

No thanks. Had my fill of angry mobs.:eek6:

[nobody]

I think even if people know there is better sound quality to be had, many would still go with Bose for the ease of setup, ease of use and compact size. For most people, they want "good enough" sound and focus more on usability. They may choose better sound if it was available in a similarly simple, full-system solution; but it really isn't that I've seen. Personally, I've always thought the high end should stop complaining about how poor Bose is for the money and come up with their own solution for an easy-to-use, discreet, compact system for under 3K. If Bose is so bad and it is so easy to better them, it should be no problem, right?

[GMichael]

I think even if people know there is better sound quality to be had, many would still go with Bose for the ease of setup, ease of use and compact size. For most people, they want "good enough" sound and focus more on usability. They may choose better sound if it was available in a similarly simple, full-system solution; but it really isn't that I've seen. Personally, I've always thought the high end should stop complaining about how poor Bose is for the money and come up with their own solution for an easy-to-use, discreet, compact system for under 3K. If Bose is so bad and it is so easy to better them, it should be no problem, right?

The people I saw felt that Bose was the absolute best money could buy, barring none.
I picked up a Yamaha HTIB for our bedroom. The list price was $750. (paid nothing) I'll stack it up against any Bose cube system ever made.

[nobody]

I agree tons of stuff sounds better, I just don't know that any of the other options are easier for some people. And, yeah, when people think Bose is absolutely the best sound, it is just ignorance 'cause they do basically sound like crap. But, that happens with most specialty type products; most people simply don't care enough to look into it.

I'm just saying sound aside, there are a lot of things people really value that the Bose systems address that other systems don't even attempt to address. For example, the Yamaha is likely bulkier and has more individual settings to mess with. Most of the problems are very easy for anyone around here who likes gear, but lots of people do not like gear at all and do not want to mess with it. They want a little box they can slip whatever kinda disc in they have, press a button and listen/watch/whatever. And, the less visible the better for the speakers. I don't see other companies addressing those kinds of issues as much as Bose.

I'm not saying I personally like the Bose systems, I just think they provide many things for people that other companies do not even attempt to provide and I think it's a shame that we don't see companies trying to make higher quality systems that serve those needs.

[PeruvianSkies]

No thanks. Had my fill of angry mobs.:eek6:

I am sure that it gets frustrating when talking to people who are close-minded about sound quality and such, but even planting a seed in their mind that maybe they ARE wrong could perhaps change their perspective down the line. You never know.

[GMichael]

I agree tons of stuff sounds better, I just don't know that any of the other options are easier for some people. And, yeah, when people think Bose is absolutely the best sound, it is just ignorance 'cause they do basically sound like crap. But, that happens with most specialty type products; most people simply don't care enough to look into it.

I'm just saying sound aside, there are a lot of things people really value that the Bose systems address that other systems don't even attempt to address. For example, the Yamaha is likely bulkier and has more individual settings to mess with. Most of the problems are very easy for anyone around here who likes gear, but lots of people do not like gear at all and do not want to mess with it. They want a little box they can slip whatever kinda disc in they have, press a button and listen/watch/whatever. And, the less visible the better for the speakers. I don't see other companies addressing those kinds of issues as much as Bose.

I'm not saying I personally like the Bose systems, I just think they provide many things for people that other companies do not even attempt to provide and I think it's a shame that we don't see companies trying to make higher quality systems that serve those needs.

Does seem like the market is wide open for competition. Maybe no one feels that they can take on the Bose mystique.

[GMichael]

I am sure that it gets frustrating when talking to people who are close-minded about sound quality and such, but even planting a seed in their mind that maybe they ARE wrong could perhaps change their perspective down the line. You never know.

Just as long as they don't change my perspective to, looking up from the ground.

[Florian]

Just let people buy what they like. There are those who who pick on people with a huge budget, there are those who pick on people with a small budget. For some people 3k just don't matter, i have a friend in the U.S. who does not have to worry about buying a 60k amplifier, he does not even need to check his account for it.

I for one, am not rich, just hard working and lucky. But i just spent 320,-EUR on a CD Player for a friend with a beginner set. (Magnepan 0.5QR-SE, Onkyo Integra 6850 and a DIY amp). He listens to my system quite often, and even tough the price is aprox. 311 times higher he still LOVES it and there is no problem like Resident Looser has with me, where he asumes that i believe in "more expensive is better". This is complete none sense, but people like you, RL generally bash people who have a much higher limit on their audio hobby and disagree with your obsession over mid-fi electronics (based on my view).

I asume this was directed straight at me, and if you where a true man, you would pick this fight with me openly, and not hide in some ancient post.


...that's simply a part of the "more expensive has to be better" mindset...An attitude which would seem not to be limited to Bavarian nimrods...

[Florian]

I saw that thread. It even brought Flo out of retirement. I miss him.


Thanks GM,

but i am not really back. I skimp these forums, from time to time and if i find something interesting (very rarely), i make a comment. Seeing how "HighEnd-Bashing" is still the norm here, i don't feel like coming back more often.

Cheers

Flo

[Rich-n-Texas]

Thanks GM,

but i am not really back. I skimp these forums, from time to time and if i find something interesting (very rarely), i make a comment. Seeing how "HighEnd-Bashing" is still the norm here, i don't feel like coming back more often.

Cheers

Flo
Uhh... You do realize Flo that RL's post is six months old right? And that he left what three or more months ago? So who in the past week or two has done any "HighEnd-Bashing?

[audio_dude]

I just pretty much stopped visiting this forum a while back...maybe i'll stay to reach my 1000 posts :)

wierd how just a couple months ago Peru was celebrating 1000, now he's almost 5k.

dumb.



but anyways, I think all the bose bashing and such has been taken care of.

Someday flo, i'll make it out there to listen to your system, someday : )


oh, and I would also put my meager stereo against any bose system ever made

[emaidel]

Bose does indeed make mediocre, grossly over-priced stuff, but no company anywhere, ever, did, or still does, a better job of marketing and merchandising. As salespeople in places like Circuit City and Best Buy are about as useless as a pimple on one's ass, it's then left up to the manufacturer to sell his product, and no one does it better than Bose. Just walk into any CC or BB store, and look at the impressive Point of Purchase (POP) stuff Bose has all over the place that "self-sells" their products better than any of the cretins working there ever could.

Also, at least in the past, Bose was a "lawsuit-happy" company. When ESS launched its "ESS Wins on Campus" ad campaign, in which double-blind listening tests at various colleges around the U.S. resulted in low priced ESS speakers outscoring the Bose 901, Amar Bose went all but ballistic. Also, when dbx introduced its "Soundfield Imaging" line of loudspeakers, the company received numerous threats of lawsuits from Bose claiming copywright infringement, when nothing of the sort was true.

But the most famous Bose lawsuit was one launched against Consumer Reports for giving the 901 a mediocre rating. Bose actually won that one after years and years of litigation.

[Scott W]

I had to read all the posts in this thread before admitting I own a pair of 501s and 901s,I've read much more on forums than i have ever posted and the bashers are everywhere and quick to criticize anyone who even mentions bose without hating them.I was actually suprised that wasn't really happening here.I'm not here to defend them,I happen to agree that they are waaay over priced for what you get(I've never bought them new).In the past few years I given away three pair of 301s and have the last 2 pair on CL,hopefully the 901s will be gone tomorrow,got a real persistant buyer emailing me.My wife likes the 501s up in the living room and thats fine by me since my listening room is here in the basement.I may get crucified for this but I think maybe had they put a woofer and a couple tweeters in the 901s they would have sounded much better.:sleep:

[thekid]

Well I have somewhat defended Bose here in past threads more because of the nature of the "cookie cutter" attacks that rerun the old criticisms such as they are mass marketer, sue everyone and their poor build quality i.e. those damn paper cones that they use in their speakers. The other thing I find amusing about a lot of the Bose basher threads is the number of posts that are almost like a "Penthouse Forum" letter...... I went to do laundry one night and there was a pair of 201's just laying on the folding table so I hooked them up and.....

I do not think any speaker maker has had so many people "not own" their products but have seemingly millions who have had the opportunity to run them on their systems and do comparison tests against another speaker. I guess it could reflect the popularity of Bose or more likely it is because most of those stories are just made up to make the anti-Bose criticism seem more legitimate. To see what I am talking about take your brand and substitute it in the typical anti- bose thread and you will get a feel for what I am talking about.

I think the Bose bashers would be better served talking about the SQ of Bose versus other brands they are familar with rather than jumping on the bandwagon whenever anyone posts anything about Bose. I know many Bose owners make it difficult because they dig in their heels and starting spouting the sales pitch they heard from the infomercial but hey it is human nature that if you just paid $2500 for what amounts to a mediocre HTIB from Bose you are going to get a bit upset when someone comes along and tells you that you just wasted your money.

I always contended and still will somewhat that the stand alone Bose products like the 201 and 301 for the money are decent sounding speakers if set up correctly and matched with the right reciever. Having now finally experienced/owned some other brands it is clear to me that for listening to music that the Bose 201's that I have just miss the boat. They are fine for HT and again going back to price you can get a pretty good HT set-up for a relatively cheap price going with their stand alone speakers and a decent sub.

I think the better approach with dealing with Bose owners like the ones in the initial post is to encourage their interest in audio and hopefully as that interest grows they become better informed. Perhaps they will be fortunate like I was to stumble across some other speakers, give them a listen and then they will understand why Bose is not the best speaker maker in the world.

[ForeverAutumn]

As a business plan, Bose has done it right. They've done a great job of convincing the public that they have top of the line speakers and getting John Q to pay a hefty premium to purchase them. I mean really, the Wave system sells for about $600. Its a clock radio for Pete's sake! But the people who buy these speakers are not audiophiles by a long shot. These are probably the same people who buy their speakers to listen to top 40 radio. They don't really care. If they did, they would do some research first and make better purchasing decisions. But Bose has made them believe that owning their speakers is prestigious. And in that person's circle of friends, it probably is.

Personally, I own a Bose computer speaker system. Two little tiny speakers and a sub-woofer. I use it in my home office to hook up a portable CD player and my iPod. For the size of the room and what I use it for it sounds pretty damn good for the price.

Oh the other hand, I was recently looking at boxed HT systems. I listened to the Bose system for $1500 and was shocked at how tinny it sounded. There was a Yamaha system on sale for less than half the price that sounded a thousand times better.

Why is Bose so successful then? Marketing, Marketing, Marketing.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I found out the other day during a business unit strategy meeting that a Texas Instruments device will be used in the Bose wave radio. Good for Bose, good for TI (my employer) :smilewinkgrin:

Now get me out of this Bose blunder thread before someone sees me!

[Feanor]

....

Why is Bose so successful then? Marketing, Marketing, Marketing.

Time and again I've been appauled by the awe in voice of Joe Avereage when the Bose name is mention. Really sad stuff: if you sound a little cynical about Bose, he'll say, "Well, certainly the best system I've ever heard was Bose". Maybe so, pal, too bad. :nonod:

[GMichael]

I remember this thread. Those guys were so mad at me for laughing when they said Bose was the best. I didn't mean to laugh. I just slipped out.