Radiient Europas on sale..

[bubbagump]

89 bucks, free shipping. I have a pair of Insignia KEF knock-offs in a nearfield/computer system that I'm really happy with. The Radiients and Insignias appear to be the same speaker except that the Radiients add a top mounted tweeter. Just ordered a pair. Hopefully they'll live up to my expectations. By the way, don't opt for expedited shipping. It runs more than the speakers at about 120 bucks.

http://www.radiient.com/Europa-SACD-Capable-Bookshelf-Loudspeakers?sc=2&category=6

[emorphien]

nice looking speakers. The Insignias seemed a bit cheap to me, but had decent sound for the money. I recall hearing that the Europas are a little nicer in build quality.

[superdougiefreshness]

89 bucks, free shipping. I have a pair of Insignia KEF knock-offs in a nearfield/computer system that I'm really happy with. The Radiients and Insignias appear to be the same speaker except that the Radiients add a top mounted tweeter. Just ordered a pair. Hopefully they'll live up to my expectations. By the way, don't opt for expedited shipping. It runs more than the speakers at about 120 bucks.

http://www.radiient.com/Europa-SACD-Capable-Bookshelf-Loudspeakers?sc=2&category=6

Interesting thread,
Isn't the KEF brand part of Celestion these days? I have to say that I could not find any driver sizes listed for the Radiient Eropa's, and I can tell you from first hand experience that a midrange driver in a 2-way speaker system needs to be at least 6"inches to have good mid bass. Even if ported a 5" or 4-3/4" midrange will not produce enough mid bass response to satisfy some listeners........I did notice that the Europa is attractive and looks similar to B&W designs.........are they only sold on the net or can I visit a showroom to audition these little babes ?

Later Dudes
SuperDougieFreshNess - San Diego - America's Finest City - Heaven on Earth. :cornut:

[bubbagump]

The Insignia KEF knock-offs have a 6 1/2" woofer. Probably the Radiient has the same. What the Insignias lack in treble, they make up for in midrange with quite a bit of 'breath'. In the near field at least. The Insigs can be used satisfactorily without a sub but I use one and would highly recommend using one to flesh things out.

Update: I measured the Insigs - it's a 5 1/2". The Best Buy website incorrectly lists it at 6 1/2".

[superdougiefreshness]

" O - G - O "
Hi Bubbagump,

I would love to hear those Radiiant Europas sometime, especially if they actually have 6-1/2 mid/bass drivers. I have 2-way Celestion SL6si's with the same size mid drivers. That size midrange can be very sweet indeed. How does that HF tweeter on the Europas sound ? Bright or polite for near field use? My ultimate computer set up would have a great sound card to start with and then a tube amplifier with usb like I have seen mentioned in the forums here, followed of course with a great set of speakers. Also I would like to run a great audio cabel to my home stereo from the computer for internet listening.............
.
Later Dudes
SuperDougieFreshNess - San Diego --- Blessings by the sea,

[emorphien]

Update: I measured the Insigs - it's a 5 1/2". The Best Buy website incorrectly lists it at 6 1/2".
Where did you measure it across? I seem to recall it looking like a 6.5" driver to me when I saw it. Did you include the surround?


and I can tell you from first hand experience that a midrange driver in a 2-way speaker system needs to be at least 6"inches to have good mid bass.
Having relatively recently auditioned quite a few two way speakers with drivers ranging from less than 5" to 7" I must disagree with this statement strongly.

[superdougiefreshness]

Where did you measure it across? I seem to recall it looking like a 6.5" driver to me when I saw it. Did you include the surround?


Having relatively recently auditioned quite a few two way speakers with drivers ranging from less than 5" to 7" I must disagree with this statement strongly.

Oh Emophien your cool dude,
That's what I love about this forum, this is what I'm really doing here most of all. The true talk on audio gear, it's the best thing for me as a hobbyist. I will certainly want to know your list of 2-way speakers with smaller mid/bass drivers under 5". I have only a little bit of speaker auditioning under my belt. I can truly say that when I heard the PCM small floor standers with those little twin 4" drivers loaded into that time-line port were amazing, lots of mid-bass that filled the room even off axis. My listening experience with smaller mid-bass drivers under 5" is with the Boston Acoustics, Yamaha's and a very small pair of credenza style Mission speakers, none of them played mid-bass very well in my system. Most of all I noticed how little bass most of them had except the Boston Acoustics which did have adequate mid-bass but was boomy. I am spoiled by the Celestions which are very sweet sounding in the mid-bass.

Later Dudes
SuperDougieFreshNaaassss - San Diego - Many blessings by the sea........:ihih:

p.s. I have noticed people mentioning that 2-way bookshelf speaker designs are better with a 7" instead of 8" woofers to avoid that dreaded muddy sound. Anyone have comments on this ?

[bubbagump]

[QUOTE=emorphien]Where did you measure it across? I seem to recall it looking like a 6.5" driver to me when I saw it. Did you include the surround?

I measured the OD including surround - outside edge of the surround to the outside edge of the surround.

[bubbagump]

"How does that HF tweeter on the Europas sound ? Bright or polite for near field use?"

I haven't received the Europas yet. The UPS website estimates delivery on the 27th. I'll post back. If the Europas are in fact the same speaker as the Insigs with a top mounted tweeter, they should be an excellent near field speaker. Prior to using them, I used Paradigm Atoms. The Insignias sound smoother and have more breath than the Atoms in the nearfield. The Atoms sound harsh in comparison. Keep in mind that the Atoms were not designed as a near field monitor. They were designed to fill a room with realistic sound. Treble can get lost quickly. I suspect that Paradigm and other brands boost the treble to overcome typical room acoustics issues. I tried the Insignias in a large room shortly after I bought them. I compared them directly to a pair of Legacy Classics and the Atoms. Compared to the Classics and Atoms, the Insigs sound muted in the high range with a bit of mid-bass bloat. The deficiencies of the Insigs are positives when 2-3 feet from your head however. With my computer system, they sound rich, lush and just right to my ear. I bought them before Best Buy jacked the price. I paid about 39 bucks and change for the pair. Last time I looked, they were about 80 bucks a pair. At that price, they would be hard to recommend given that the Radiient Europas are 89 bucks.

[emorphien]

[QUOTE=emorphien]Where did you measure it across? I seem to recall it looking like a 6.5" driver to me when I saw it. Did you include the surround?

I measured the OD including surround - outside edge of the surround to the outside edge of the surround.
Weird, fair enough. Maybe my memory is bad because I thought they looked like 6.5" drivers.


Oh Emophien your cool dude,
That's what I love about this forum, this is what I'm really doing here most of all. The true talk on audio gear, it's the best thing for me as a hobbyist. I will certainly want to know your list of 2-way speakers with smaller mid/bass drivers under 5". I have only a little bit of speaker auditioning under my belt. I can truly say that when I heard the PCM small floor standers with those little twin 4" drivers loaded into that time-line port were amazing, lots of mid-bass that filled the room even off axis. My listening experience with smaller mid-bass drivers under 5" is with the Boston Acoustics, Yamaha's and a very small pair of credenza style Mission speakers, none of them played mid-bass very well in my system. Most of all I noticed how little bass most of them had except the Boston Acoustics which did have adequate mid-bass but was boomy. I am spoiled by the Celestions which are very sweet sounding in the mid-bass.

Later Dudes
SuperDougieFreshNaaassss - San Diego - Many blessings by the sea........:ihih:

p.s. I have noticed people mentioning that 2-way bookshelf speaker designs are better with a 7" instead of 8" woofers to avoid that dreaded muddy sound. Anyone have comments on this ?
Well I can't speak for how anything will sound in your room on your gear if you're auditioning at home. But you should check out Era speakers for small bookshelf speakers with small drivers as well as Totem who have numerous bookshelf models with drivers in the 4.5-5.5" range which I think sound excellent. They also have tower models with 4.5-5.5" drivers as well. B&W CM1 uses a 5.5" driver as I recall and it isn't lacking in the midbass but overall in my opinion had an uninvolving sound. I haven't even scratched the surface of the options out there with smaller drivers, those are just some I auditioned that stood out to me.

I auditioned a few speakers with larger drivers, and I really wanted to hear the Focal 807V because the 806V was a really great speaker. (Ultimately I enjoyed the Totems more and purchased a pair of the Rainmakers.) Paradigm has had a few bookshelf models with 8" drivers and they did exhibit the muddy sound you talked about, but they weren't particularly expensive speakers. It does seem that once you start going above 7" drivers it gets harder to design a good bookshelf speaker to handle it, otherwise the enclosure is going to have to start getting bigger to match the driver. The Focal 807V is a rather large speaker for a "bookshelf" speaker. In floorstanders I imagine this is less of an issue.

While there are certainly limits to what a given size of driver can do, in a lot of cases the small driver bookshelf and floorstander speakers are aimed for listening in smaller rooms. If you took the Eras, several of the Totem speakers or many of the other small stand mounted or floorstander speakers and put them in a larger room you would lose the bass and midbass. So perhaps that leads us to an important question, how big is your room?

[jrhymeammo]

It does seem that once you start going above 7" drivers it gets harder to design a good bookshelf speaker to handle it, otherwise the enclosure is going to have to start getting bigger to match the driver.

This comment triggered my fingers. Not that I've heard them before, but what about Legacy audio HD Studio or Krell Resolution 3. They both have 8" drivers.

Legacy HD Studio's driver looks like Radiient's driver with inverted nipples.
Sexy? Oh yeah!!

But seriously, if I was to get back in to HT deal, I would defintely spend $300 on Flurance or Radiient speakers with some Pioneer receiver. Less than $500 for the entire system? Please let us know how they sound, Bubbagimp.

JRA

[emorphien]

This comment triggered my fingers. Not that I've heard them before, but what about Legacy audio HD Studio or Krell Resolution 3. They both have 8" drivers.

I haven't heard em all, including those.

You can't make too many generalizations because someone out there usually has a way to make something work. I just haven't heard enough two way speakers with drivers bigger than 7" to have much of an strong opinion, I was just sharing the impressions based on the few I have heard :) I did mention that they're probably going to become rather large speakers to effectively accommodate 8" drivers.

[jrhymeammo]

I see.