Frank Zappa "Jazz From Hell"

[DPM]

The other day I ventured into Zia Records here in Vegas to scope out the bins and discovered that there was a Frank Zappa sale going on. Hmmm, I thought to myself, this may be an excellent chance to experiment. I already had nine Zappa recordings: Hot Rats, Waka/Jawaka, Grand Wazoo, Over-nite Sensation, Apostrophe, Roxy And Elsewhere, One Size Fits All (my fave), Zoot Allures and Sheik Yerbouti. Gee, what do I go for next?

Well, I whittled down the choices to three: Just Another Band From L.A., Man From Utopia and Jazz From Hell. Each was on sale for $7.99, so I figured that I didn't have much to lose. I then started to whittle some more.

Seeing as I already had a bunch of his 1970's stuff, I nixed Just Another Band From L.A. That left two titles from the eighties. Of these two, Jazz From Hell always seems to get better reviews, so that's the one I chose. Now, after one listen I'm wondering if I made a mistake. Much of this sounds like aimless noodling to me. (Hear Frankie play with his new toy.) The only tracks that I really care for at all are G Spot Tornado and St. Etienne--with Night School coming in as a maybe. Perhaps if ALL of the songs had been done with a full band I would like it more. That synclavier is a neat gadget, but it can't replace a person or persons.

So, this brings me to my question. Of the three choices listed above, which would have you guys chosen?

[bobsticks]

...Them Or Us

[Mr Peabody]

I had that album on vinyl some years back. Let me emphasize HAD. This album had me wondering if it wasn't Frank's biggest prank and he wet himself laughing at every glowing review. Frank, if you were serious, well, forgive me, it went right over my head.

I'd have to see the track list on the other two, I'm not that familiar with what's on what.

I thought he was a man, but he was a muffin!

[Rich-n-Texas]

There was an album he released many many years ago that had a picture of the band on the cover but the heads of the members were replaced by pictures of...? Rubin and the Jets comes to mind but I don't remember if that was the name of the album or what he was calling his band at the time.

[Resident Loser]

The other day I ventured into Zia Records here in Vegas to scope out the bins and discovered that there was a Frank Zappa sale ...

...The Mothers- Filmore East- June 1971 with Flo and Eddie (Howard Kaylan and Mark Volman of The Turtles)...If you like the sorta' "comic" side of his work i.e. Over Nite Sensation, Apostrophe, etc. you'll probably love it...and the music ain't too shabby.

Just Another Band from L.A. also w/ Flo and Eddie features "Billy The Mountain" where Billy causes an "O mein papa" in the earth's crust...of course, you have to be of a certain age, or at least be familiar with the singer of the referenced song, to appreciate the humor involved...

jimHJJ(...just some more useless info...)

[Troy]

JFH is pretty annoying. The whole Synclavier thing is so harshly MIDI, the songs sound like they are being played by machines because . . . they are being played by a machine. The time is too perfect. Every. Note. Is. Too. Exactly. In. Time. Back then you had to program notes locked to the timeline grid. Now you can program them anyplace on the timeline making the notes sound more natural and human. The instrument voices are also rather crude, brittle and shrill.

MIDI tech has come a very long way since then. The Synclavier cost 50 or 100 grand back then and today the MIDI editor that comes built in to every Mac (Garageband) is infinitely more sophisticated. Today JFH ends up being nothing more than a curiosity. I bet FZ would hate it now.

Several songs from JFH have appeared on other albums performed by human beings, most notably the "Zapa's Universe" tribute headlined by Mike Keneally. The songs are good (Echidna's Arf, Nite School), complex fun.

Yeah, you picked the worst of the 3 . . .

[MasterCylinder]

JFH is known because it actually won Zappa a (his only ?) GRAMMY.

It is also known as the first time you will hear a concert grand piano bend notes.

[BradH]

Yeah, you picked the worst of the 3 . . .

Yeah, that's my least favorite Zappa album by far. It's boring as sh!t hearing that music on a Synclavier. Apparently, there's a ton of that stuff stored away in the vaults.

[3-LockBox]

I don't get into much of Zappa's late experimentalism anyway. Don't get me wrong, the guy was a genious, when he wasn't farting into tubas or making frat-house party records. But he seemed to run out of ideas and sounded like he experimented out of boredom, not creativety...like Todd Rungeren. Zappa's later works are prolly better realized by his prodigies, like Keneally, or others that were inspired by Zappa.

[BradH]

I don't get into much of Zappa's late experimentalism anyway. Don't get me wrong, the guy was a genious, when he wasn't farting into tubas or making frat-house party records. But he seemed to run out of ideas and sounded like he experimented out of boredom, not creativety...like Todd Rungeren. Zappa's later works are prolly better realized by his prodigies, like Keneally, or others that were inspired by Zappa.

I don't think Zappa lost it in quite the manner Rundgren did, that's a pretty steep drop off. You mentioned Zappa's late experimentalism. I would say his whole damned catalogue was one big experiment. All of the threads in his career were there from the beginning: the frat house sex humor, the avant garde experimentalism, doo woop, pop, gut bucket rock 'n' roll jams and a deep understanding of the blues. (Every guitar solo has that snappy Johnny Guitar Watson attack.) The difference in the later years was you got entire albums of experimentalism (Jazz From Hell, LSO, etc.) or guitar solos (Guitar, Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar, etc.) whereas before it would be one or two songs on an album. My problem with Zappa's later rock/pop records was that they were so smoothly produced they lost some of the dirt and grit that lasted even into the late 70's, even with the "Roxy" band. Although, technically, the Keneally/Whackerman lineup was probably the best band he ever had. Lately, I've really come around to enjoying things like Man From Utopia and Ship Arriving better than I did back in the day. And I can listen to LSO if I'm in the mood but Jazz From Hell is just irritating - except for "St. Ettiene", of course. But I don't think he did anything because of boredom or even creativity the way most artists do. His was a weird, scientific, left-brain approach to mixing musical elements as if they were chemicals and he was a scientist. He was very open and explicit about this process and he disdained what he called emotional triggers in music. It's obviously the most artistically successful example of that approach in pop music and it sounds a helluva lot more interesting than the way Bob Fripp approaches it. In other words, I think you have to throw in the frat house stuff and the farting tubas because the whole shebang is what made Zappa a genius, not his understanding of advanced musical theory or the classical avant garde.

[MasterCylinder]

Well said, Brad.........I second that motion.
Especially the comparison to Fripp.

[3-LockBox]

You mentioned Zappa's late experimentalism. I would say his whole damned catalogue was one big experiment.

I agree with that. I was merely referring to the latter stages of his career. If Frank had not died, I wonder where he would have went with his experimentalism. Maybe he'd be just as eccentric as Fripp in his old age.

As far as Fripp is concerned, I think it was a major coup for him to join up with Adrian Belew. After hearing three or four solo albums, I think Belew has been responsible for much of King Crimson's latter-day success, and not Fripp's eccentricity. I think fans of KC have been able to appreciate Fripp's long winded soundscapes knowing that songs like Heartbeat, People, Elephant Talk, as well as classic KC tunes, were just around the corner. At least Fripp, like Zappa, knew to surround himself with great talent.

[BradH]

At least Fripp, like Zappa, knew to surround himself with great talent.

And to his credit, Fripp was willing to forego absolute control, unlike Zappa. That was really the whole point of hiring Belew. Fripp would be the discipline freak and Belew would be the emotional wild card and the new KC would be the result. But to me it sounded like a cooler Gabriel/Heads version of The League Of Gentlemen and I hated that album. Still do. I like Frippertronics and tape loops but League of Gentlemen sounded like a dry dots-on-paper exercise and that colored my feelings about Discipline and the Belew era ever since. And Zappa was a real dots-on-paper kind of guy but the result was waaay more interesting. One thing's for sure, you know we're getting older when "Elephant Talk" isn't considered classic KC but I know exactly what you mean. I'd trade the last 25 years of KC for side one of Red. But hey, I beat Vice City the other day so I can't be that old! Ha!

[Troy]

Brad, you should write a book.

For my $, KC started with the Belew area. Belew was the Yin to Fripps Yang. They compliment each other perfectly. Was never a fan of the 70s stuff with the exception of the song Red. And I think the Belew era band performs that live better than the 70s band did. You can keep pretty much anything else Fripp in involved with. As you say, the guy's a stiff.

The 80s FZ band was tighter, but there was this swagger they had that really made them special. That "Best Band you Never Heard" live set and other live albums from the era have this free-wheeling, without a net quality that makes 'em exciting. The songwriting from that era shows that FZ wasn't putting a lot of effort into craft because he was tired or bored, but that last live band was staggeringly powerful with the older songs. Breakneck tempos and an almost parodic quality of the FZ canon.

Zappa was a rock band guy. He had no business hanging with an orchestra if he couldn't realize they have a different sensibility. He really got insulted, poor baby.

I got stuck in the shooting range late in Vice City and lost interest, but I did run the whole game in San Andreas. I prefer the west coast vibe to that one, especially the driving around in the desert at night aspect. Go figure. And I'm older than you, I think.

[BradH]

Brad, you should write a book.

I hear it's extremely profitable, eh Troy?


For my $, KC started with the Belew area. Belew was the Yin to Fripps Yang.

But Bruford & Wetton didn't need that relationship because Fripp wasn't playing like a math professor. And that lineup never performed "Red" onstage AFAIK, so it was good to see that. (Thrak tour, third row, center stage). Lark's Tongues Part 2 from USA is still my fave version of that song.



The songwriting from that era shows that FZ wasn't putting a lot of effort into craft because he was tired or bored, but that last live band was staggeringly powerful with the older songs. Breakneck tempos and an almost parodic quality of the FZ canon.

Yeah, they were scary. Freaking unbelievable range. Scott Thunes was the band director and everyone hated him because he was a harsh taskmaster. Zappa hated the atmosphere so he called a meeting and took a vote. Keneally was the only one who wanted to go on so Zappa threw in the towel and went home w/ a buttload of killer recordings.


He had no business hanging with an orchestra if he couldn't realize they have a different sensibility. He really got insulted, poor baby..

Yeah, according to him. I would take that with a block of salt that ranchers set out for cattle to lick. Zappa lived to be wronged and insulted.


I got stuck in the shooting range late in Vice City and lost interest, but I did run the whole game in San Andreas. I prefer the west coast vibe to that one, especially the driving around in the desert at night aspect. Go figure.

Vice City was a lot more fun than Liberty City. I love that tropical feel. Haven't played San Andreas yet but I have to take a break after a month of obscure mission goals and ridiculous targeting systems. Damn near killed my wrist with firing on the O button. The GTA III games are sort of flawed visionary masterpieces.


And I'm older than you, I think.

Yeah, by about a year. But we're just pups...

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[Troy]

Don't quit your day job Brad.

You can get San Andreas on the used market for $15. You'll love it. The full map is more than twice the size of Vice City. You can drive around for days once you unlock the whole thing. Yeah, Liberty City is weak by comparison.

Don't mess with grandma.