Are any of these speakers particularly forgiving of room placement?

[Mike Rubin]

I've posted this on other forums but think I'd like to hear from some more people who have had relevant experience. If you've read or answered this post elsewhere, I apologize for the duplication.

I have a horrible listening room. There is no wall space, but there is lots of furniture in the middle of the room. The speakers have to go on the side of the room that has a bay window, flanking a table, with my equipment cabinet off to one side on the left facing wall and a built-in bookcase on the other side on the right facing wall. There actually is a sofa between the speakers and the sweet spot. As I said, it's just horrible and no speaker can do its best in that environment.

Until recently, I had powered Infinity Intermezzo 2.6's and a matching sub. All things considered, they did well, since the speakers were mounted on stands high enough for them to play "over" the couch. Unfortunately, though, they did not mate so well with the sub (which was between the right speaker and the built-in bookshelf), nor my old-fashioned electrical system, which frequently blew out their internal electrical components every time my wife ran the microwave while her mother ironed, even though the speakers all were plugged into a power conditioner. I have moved them to a second home where they won't be subject to such peaks and power failures.

Because of the subwoofer mating issues, I now am looking for floorstanding speakers that don't care so much about where they are located. Ideally, they would not have internal amplification, would have their tweeters at a height (say 40 inches) that would give them a fighting chance over the furniture, and would not be wider than about fourteen inches (the width of the Infinities on stands).

Here are products sold in San Francisco (where I reside) in which I have been interested and that might fit into the space physically. If anyone has experience with these particular products, it would be great to know if you found them very sensitive to room placement, not so much to sound their best, but, rather, to sound at least adequate without a lot of fussing:

Revel F32 and F12
Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1
Definitive Technology ST (although powered)
Totem (several models in my price range)
Triangle (several models in my price range)
Dali (several models in my price range)
NHT Classic Fours
Silverline Preludes

Amplification is a Musical Fidelity A5 integrated. Sources are vinyl and digital. Budget is around three or four grand a pair. Thanks for your help.

[Mr Peabody]

Unfortunately, any speaker is going to find placement and room surroundings critical. I have to admit, I can't quite picture your room in my head. If you have an open area where you place your speakers you might consider Martin Logan, although not on your list, they are tall and the entire panel is the driver. If you listen in one spot these might work. They need room around them though and the sweet spot gets the best of what is reproduced. Well, then again, that 14" thing may be a question. If interested, you'd just have to check the dimensions.

I'm not a fan, and they aren't on your list either, but Vandersteen's might work. They don't exactly use a cabinet, I thing the grill, more like a sock, justs goes over the frame.

How about some good headphones :)

[emorphien]

If you don't mind sticking with the sub, maybe some wall mounted speakers would work for you. Something like Magnepan's MMG-W I think they're called. I'm sure there are better speakers with a similar profile and mounting options.

I have to admit I don't see much sense in spending $3000-4000 on speakers when you don't have appropriate placement or room acoustics to allow them to perform like $3000-4000 speakers.

Of the speakers you mentioned I can vouch for the Totems (probably the Forests I imagine, which are awesome speakers, I have a pair of Rainmakers), Gallos and Triangles as all being quality speakers which all perform well (and quite differently from one another). To me it seemed like the Gallos had a narrow sweet spot so whether or not that works for you might be an issue.

[Mike Rubin]

Thanks, gents. Mr. P, no, I can't have the speakers too far from the wall, so that leaves out the dipoloars and the speakers with wide dispersion, so the MLs and Vandersteens are out, alas. And emorphion, there's no wall space on which to hang speakers, just twelve feet of windows. Nonetheless, thanks for the thoughts about the three brands I mentioned; I've gathered from other research that both the Triangles and the Gallo really like to have a few feet behind them, at all. So, they may not be ideal, although, realistically, I am not so much looking for "ideal" as "adequate and best possible" in this setting.

[emorphien]

I can't speak to rear spacing on the Gallos but they seemed to me like they really want some room to breath all around them.

[Feanor]

Thanks, gents. Mr. P, no, I can't have the speakers too far from the wall, so that leaves out the dipoloars and the speakers with wide dispersion, so the MLs and Vandersteens are out, alas. And emorphion, there's no wall space on which to hang speakers, just twelve feet of windows. Nonetheless, thanks for the thoughts about the three brands I mentioned; I've gathered from other research that both the Triangles and the Gallo really like to have a few feet behind them, at all. So, they may not be ideal, although, realistically, I am not so much looking for "ideal" as "adequate and best possible" in this setting.

I think you are wise to consider that wide dispersion speakers will be a problem. Of course, wall treatments on the side walls can mitigate the early relections with are the problem with wide dispersion in tight space.

Without wall treatments, a possible option is true "near field" studio monitors with "controlled dispersion" that limit the dispersion arc. There are many brands and models and I'm no expert. However if you have lots of money, you won't beat models from Genelec ...
http://www.genelecusa.com/products/

[Mike Rubin]

I think you are wise to consider that wide dispersion speakers will be a problem. Of course, wall treatments on the side walls can mitigate the early relections with are the problem with wide dispersion in tight space.

Without wall treatments, a possible option is true "near field" studio monitors with "controlled dispersion" that limit the dispersion arc. There are many brands and models and I'm no expert. However if you have lots of money, you won't beat models from Genelec ...
http://www.genelecusa.com/products/

This is a very interesting suggestion and one that I had not considered. Wall treatments are not possible, as the little bit of wall to the left of the window has my equipment cabinet and the little bit on the right has built-in bookshelves. (In 1924, the house's architects failed to anticipate the Audio Revolution, clearly.)

I am a bit skeptical of nearfield monitors in this application because of my experience with them as, well, nearfield monitors. I have some NHT M00's in my office system and, compared to other speaker types, it is very much "in my face" literally and figuratively. I like a lot more air and soundstage to what I hear, but there's no denying the tonal accuracy of many nearfields within their frequency ranges. I will look further into using Genelecs or the like in a consumer listening environment rather than a studio or desktop one. Thanks for the idea.

[Feanor]

This is a very interesting suggestion and one that I had not considered. Wall treatments are not possible, as the little bit of wall to the left of the window has my equipment cabinet and the little bit on the right has built-in bookshelves. (In 1924, the house's architects failed to anticipate the Audio Revolution, clearly.)

I am a bit skeptical of nearfield monitors in this application because of my experience with them as, well, nearfield monitors. I have some NHT M00's in my office system and, compared to other speaker types, it is very much "in my face" literally and figuratively. I like a lot more air and soundstage to what I hear, but there's no denying the tonal accuracy of many nearfields within their frequency ranges. I will look further into using Genelecs or the like in a consumer listening environment rather than a studio or desktop one. Thanks for the idea.

I haven't owned studio monitors but I've often heard that they are excessively flat in the higher frequency range, that is, most people prefer a bit of roll off in normal listening. Hence it's possible you'll want some EQ or tone controls to dull them down: that done however, the results might be very satisfactory. As for imaging, early relections are the enemy of imaging so controlled dispersion sounds like a plus. Soundstage is a different, though: dipoles, adequately spaced from the walls can't be beat for this, but aren't an option in your case.

[Mr Peabody]

It sounds like you are still leaning toward a box speaker as best for your room, in that, you will need to stick with a cabinet design that is front ported. Front ports work best with speakers that have to be in a cramped area.

[Pat D]

This is a very interesting suggestion and one that I had not considered. Wall treatments are not possible, as the little bit of wall to the left of the window has my equipment cabinet and the little bit on the right has built-in bookshelves. (In 1924, the house's architects failed to anticipate the Audio Revolution, clearly.)

I am a bit skeptical of nearfield monitors in this application because of my experience with them as, well, nearfield monitors. I have some NHT M00's in my office system and, compared to other speaker types, it is very much "in my face" literally and figuratively. I like a lot more air and soundstage to what I hear, but there's no denying the tonal accuracy of many nearfields within their frequency ranges. I will look further into using Genelecs or the like in a consumer listening environment rather than a studio or desktop one. Thanks for the idea.

I heard the Thiel PCS a couple of years ago and it is an impressive enough speaker. It is meant for the near field though that is not how I heard them. They are a bit in your face a bit but I didn't find it unpleasant or harsh. Not quite to my taste but a nice speaker. Here is the full review in Stereophile.

http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/243/

My PSB Stratus Minis do well in the near field and I expect their new G-Series speakers will as well, but I haven't heard the new models.

I have heard of people listening to Paradigm Signature Series speakers in the near field, but I personally (as an owner of a pair of S2) don't think that would be ideal but not bad. But then, with the Tilt control on my Quad preamp, I could adjust the balance.

I have heard some powered Genelec monitors (I forget which ones) which sounded too bright for me--but one can adjust the balance of those things:I didn't have the time but should be worth looking into. So Feanor's suggestion is a good one.

[Mike Rubin]

It sounds like you are still leaning toward a box speaker as best for your room, in that, you will need to stick with a cabinet design that is front ported. Front ports work best with speakers that have to be in a cramped area.

I think that makes sense. Now, I just have to find out which of the speakers I listed actually have front ports! Off to do some research.....

[filecat13]

...or speakers with no ports.

Let me make some assumptions.
1) Your current subs can handle everything below 80Hz.
2) You can put speaker stands on the floor and in the same space that your previous speakers occupied.
3) You want speakers that can handle a lot of power, yet are tightly controlled in their dispersion.
4) You want speakers that are not overbearing or dominating in appearance.

If those assumptions are correct, then the JBL Performance Series fits like a glove. You can get the 3-way PT800 for around $3k a pair. Put them on stands that take them to the proper height, center the EOS Waveguides toward your preferred seating, set your pre/pro to crossover the sub at THX 80Hz (or above), and you're set. The inverted dome Ti 8" and 4" drivers mate well with the 1" Ti dome tweeter, and the thing runs very flat from 80Hz to 22kHz. Articulate, spacious, powerful, detailed, well-imaged...it's hard to go wrong.

Downsides: they can be hard to find, and some guys like to mock the JBL nameplate. (I would consider them to be ignorant.)

[Mike Rubin]

...or speakers with no ports.

Let me make some assumptions.
1) Your current subs can handle everything below 80Hz.


Ahhh, well, sorry if I was not so clear about that, but I want to get away from subs and into a full-range speaker that has roughly the same footprint as a monitor on a stand (and many of them do these days). The subs worth owning (and, more importantly, that will mate with decent monitors in my price range) all are powered, and I really am trying not to deal with powered speakers. (My Intermezzo sats AND sub all have been in the shop repeatedly due to power surge issues, despite running them through a Monster Power HTPS7000 Signature Edition. I've since moved the Monster with the Intermezzos to a second home where the power is much more modern, and replaced the Monster in my current system with a PS Audio Power Plant Premier, but I remain reluctant to test my luck with more powered speakers, be they monitors or subs.) However, I will look into JBL products to see if there might be a competitive full-range product in the line you mention. Thanks for the suggestion.