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kexodusc
06-05-2007, 08:07 AM
Damn I love this band.

Who else can pull off blending Abba, Pink Floyd, throw in a guest appearance by the world's 2 biggest guitar living heroes, some of Prog's best musicians, and even Chris freakin' Jericho?

I was hoping they'd give us for a more multi-faceted, super rock-out album that built on ToT but went further with it. This delivers and then some. With the exception of 2 mediocre filler tracks this album exceeded all expectations. Album of the year so far by a country mile...:3:

Comment on the Special Edition 5.1 DVD.
I think it only has Dolby Digital on it - that's all I listened to so far - I'll give it a lot of credit though, I've got a several DTS DVD's that would do well to match this sound quality, proof positive that compression is definitely not the end all be all of determining sound quality for rock mixes. It's done pretty well. I'm impressed...
Next time, give us DVD-A or DTS though.

ForeverAutumn
06-05-2007, 09:14 AM
I just picked this up and haven't even had a chance to remove the wrap. Unfortunately, I can't crank the volume in the office so I won't be able to get the real feel for this disk until I'm at home. Hubby is supposed to be going out tomorrow night, which means that I'll have the house to myself and can really dive into the 5.1 mix. I can't wait!

Edit: Okay, first 30 seconds of the disk...I would have put money on that being Rush! From seconds 18 - 21 it sounds like they're going to go right into Limelight.

2nd Edit: I take back my first edit. On better speakers it doesn't sound that way at all!

kexodusc
06-06-2007, 07:25 AM
I just picked this up and haven't even had a chance to remove the wrap. Unfortunately, I can't crank the volume in the office so I won't be able to get the real feel for this disk until I'm at home. Hubby is supposed to be going out tomorrow night, which means that I'll have the house to myself and can really dive into the 5.1 mix. I can't wait!

Edit: Okay, first 30 seconds of the disk...I would have put money on that being Rush! From seconds 18 - 21 it sounds like they're going to go right into Limelight.

2nd Edit: I take back my first edit. On better speakers it doesn't sound that way at all!

I'm pretty sure I can identify Steven Wilson and Chris Jericho in "Repentance". Any idea who's voice is used for what bit at what point the songs anyone?

ForeverAutumn
06-07-2007, 06:58 AM
I'm just listening to this all the way through for the first time and there are some very interesting and unusual (for DT) vocal things going on here. I'm not sure yet how I feel about that.

kexodusc
06-07-2007, 07:39 AM
I'm just listening to this all the way through for the first time and there are some very interesting and unusual (for DT) vocal things going on here. I'm not sure yet how I feel about that.

This is definitely a much more dark, prog-metal version of Dream Theater - Constant Motion just screams early Metallica vocals to me, and the closing track has some demonic/devil growling a la Dave Mustaine and Megadeth going on - I love it. LaBrie is reigned in quite a bit as he was on Train of Thought - not a bad thing for this more aggressive style of music. I do like the sharper constrast of LaBrie's switching from soft to hard as the mood demands. Doing it that way rather than the either/or approach most bands take today is nice. I'm sick of the typical one speed, monotone, higher pitched whiny/Euro style vocals too many prog acts do, or the whisper/scream-repeat formula of most metal acts.

Portnoy (and maybe Pertrucci) does do more of the background vocals this time around in some places, which does kind of lend a more natural feel to the album.

I have a feeling there'll be one or two tracks each fan isn't too crazy about for different reasons,too heavy for some, not heavy enough for others, too aggressive at the expense of melody in some areas, etc...but the rest should get everyone pretty excited.
This album definitely grows on you with each listen.

In The Presence of Enemies (which was written and will be played as 1 song) is one wild, dramatic, roller-coaster ride at over 25 and a half minutes...

This album has a bit more appeal to me more than Octavarium's sometimes more accessible approach did.

I will say some of the lyrics are a little blatantly typical, if not traditional metal.
Seems to be the weak part of 99% of albums I buy.

PeruvianSkies
06-07-2007, 09:15 PM
I've been a fan of this band nearly their entire career, really caught on with IMAGES AND WORDS, which is still in many ways one of their best, if not THE best album of theirs. Of course the next few to follow that would be of equal weight: AWAKE and FALLING INTO INFINITY, even SCENES FROM A MEMORY, which is the last album of theirs that I can truly say I love every track. Since then it's been one let down after another...SIX DEGREES, TRAIN OF THOUGHT, OCTAVARIUM, and after listening to this new album, it doesn't grab me that much either, although I appreciate their experimenting and also to some degree....going back to some of their 'roots', which are ultimately the roots of the bands that they respect and love.

Some might say...well, you need to give this new album a chance, listen for awhile, then make up your mind. Well, maybe so, but that didn't happen on the last 3 and with all their material prior to that...I was hooked from the first note to the last note. These last 3 albums, and perhaps now 4 albums have one or two catchy songs, but the rest has me reaching for the 'advance track' button before you can say Dominici. I guess I'll give it a few more spins here tonight and see what happens though.

kexodusc
06-08-2007, 04:00 AM
Some might say...well, you need to give this new album a chance, listen for awhile, then make up your mind. Well, maybe so, but that didn't happen on the last 3 and with all their material prior to that...I was hooked from the first note to the last note. These last 3 albums, and perhaps now 4 albums have one or two catchy songs, but the rest has me reaching for the 'advance track' button before you can say Dominici. I guess I'll give it a few more spins here tonight and see what happens though.

All depends what you're looking for. Seems everyone likes the band for different reasons. Most people I talk to at their shows have been long-time fans, and if I grab 6 different people, I'll get 6 different favorite albums. From my perspective, Awake is their weakest album by far. Followed by FII, then 6DOI. By weak, I mean by DT standards, because I love all their albums. Images and Words was a good album for them, nowhere close to their best (though, but I can remember the first time I heard it, watching Pull Me Under on MTV, etc. Scenes From a Memory, Train of Thought, and Octavarium were my favs prior to Systematic Chaos, which I'm sure will fall in there somewhere. I know I like it more than Images & Words already. The last 3 albums have had their best songs ever IMO, but there's been a few on each I didn't care for. Overall, Scenes is probably my favorite album from start to finish, though it doesn't have any of my favorite songs. As Portnoy tells it, they've been most successful with the last 4 studio albums and tours as their fanbase continues to grow. I'm sure they're losing some along the way though. Now, having said all that, this is their 2nd time they've taken the super heavy route throughout - (Octavarium was more like a sample of all their other forrays). I wouldn't mind a change of pace for the next one at all just to keep us guessing. Though I confess, it's this aggression and how they pull it off that appeals to me so much.

I like the prog-metal approach - not too much wankery and pretentiousness like, say, Pain of Salvation, and enough solid songwriting full of emotion and drama to keep them a bit different from being another IQ or Marillion (2 more of my favs).
My only beef with the band is the lyrics are sometimes a bit too cheesy. As I said earlier though, that's my biggest beef with most bands, especially my favs, so I don't think that counts for much.
I do like the 12 steps of AA that they keep writing about (up to 9 now by my count). I'd love to hear an album or show where they work all 12 songs into one performance.

ForeverAutumn
06-08-2007, 05:25 AM
It sounds like the two of you like completely different elements of this band. PS seems to prefer the more accessable, radio friendly Dream Theater that we find on Images and Words and Falling Into Infinity. While Kex seems to prefer the heavier, darker side of DT in Train of Thought and Scenes from a Memory.

I seem to fall somewhere in the middle. I like Falling Into Infinity (and Peruvian Skies happens to be my favourite song on that disk :) ). But I think that Octavarium is the best album they've done. And Octavarium itself, as a song, is my favourite song.

I've only listened to the new disk twice so far and it seems to be closer in style to Train of Thought. Which, although a great album, is not high on my list of DT faves. I still need to spend a lot more time with this CD as this is not an album that you can take in after only a couple of spins. And I'm really hoping to find time to listen to the 5.1 mix this weekend.

Has anyone listened to it in 5.1 yet? Comments? Opinions?

kexodusc
06-08-2007, 06:09 AM
Has anyone listened to it in 5.1 yet? Comments? Opinions?

As is typical with most heavier acts and DVD's, the bass is exaggerated at times, but I really like the simplicity they used. I didn't notice any guitar solo's flying out of the back corners just to show of surround sound. Sound wise it's not the best I've heard, but it's well above what I've come to expect from Dolby Digital music tracks - it sounds better than several DTS DVD's I have. I think with a lot of rock music that focuses on dynamic range rather than frequency scope, subtle harmonics and transients,, a codec like Dolby Digital can do a decent job.

Considering the low cost I like this option and wish more bands would do it (the SE and standard version were the same price when I bought it). Next time give us DVD-A or DTS at least though.

ForeverAutumn
06-08-2007, 09:10 AM
The benefit of a DVD vs. DVD-A, is for dinosaurs like me who have an older DVD player that isn't DVD-A or SACD compatible.

BTW Kex, as of today I'm on a first name basis with my guy at the indie record store. I just bought two new and one used CD there and he dropped the used disk by another $3 for me. He knows I'll be back. My next step is getting that pre-release disk from him the next time it's important to me. :biggrin5:

kexodusc
06-08-2007, 11:27 AM
The benefit of a DVD vs. DVD-A, is for dinosaurs like me who have an older DVD player that isn't DVD-A or SACD compatible.
DVD-A would be compatible with your player - they have the DVD standard tracks on them - and it would also give those with a DVD-A player the added benefits. Some DVD-A's even have the DTS track on them which most a/v receivers since 2000 process.

BTW Kex, as of today I'm on a first name basis with my guy at the indie record store. I just bought two new and one used CD there and he dropped the used disk by another $3 for me. He knows I'll be back. My next step is getting that pre-release disk from him the next time it's important to me. :biggrin5: [/QUOTE]
Way to grease some palms, FA. Trust me, you'll be amazed what a random coffee/donut delivery can do.

ForeverAutumn
06-08-2007, 11:52 AM
DVD-A would be compatible with your player

Nope. Believe me, I've tried. It doesn't recognize the disk. But I'm planning an upgrade of the whole system (except speakers) within the next year.


Way to grease some palms, FA. Trust me, you'll be amazed what a random coffee/donut delivery can do.

Unfortunately, the closest Timmy's is in the other direction. I'll have to do my palm greasing during the summer months. :)

PeruvianSkies
06-08-2007, 12:57 PM
Nope. Believe me, I've tried. It doesn't recognize the disk. But I'm planning an upgrade of the whole system (except speakers) within the next year.



Unfortunately, the closest Timmy's is in the other direction. I'll have to do my palm greasing during the summer months. :)

This reminds me of another thread debate...

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=22412&highlight=sheryl+crow

Basically the argument was that DVD-A's can play on ANY player.

kexodusc
06-08-2007, 01:03 PM
This reminds me of another thread debate...

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=22412&highlight=sheryl+crow

Basically the argument was that DVD-A's can play on ANY player.

Well, that's the intention - I have an old, old Denon player that doesn't recognize a lot of DVD's, or even cd's. Not much you can do about that.
But yeah, they were "supposed" to be playable on any DVD player as far as I knew.

ForeverAutumn
06-08-2007, 02:56 PM
Well, that's the intention - I have an old, old Denon player that doesn't recognize a lot of DVD's, or even cd's. Not much you can do about that.
But yeah, they were "supposed" to be playable on any DVD player as far as I knew.

I have an even older Panasonic CD player that won't play CD-Rs. I think it's gotta be around 17 or 18 years old now. It still works great...as long as you only play store purchased CDs.

If anyone who believes that DVD-As should work on any player would like to come over and try mine, they are welcome.

PeruvianSkies
06-08-2007, 07:48 PM
It sounds like the two of you like completely different elements of this band. PS seems to prefer the more accessable, radio friendly Dream Theater that we find on Images and Words and Falling Into Infinity. While Kex seems to prefer the heavier, darker side of DT in Train of Thought and Scenes from a Memory.

I seem to fall somewhere in the middle. I like Falling Into Infinity (and Peruvian Skies happens to be my favourite song on that disk :) ). But I think that Octavarium is the best album they've done. And Octavarium itself, as a song, is my favourite song.

I've only listened to the new disk twice so far and it seems to be closer in style to Train of Thought. Which, although a great album, is not high on my list of DT faves. I still need to spend a lot more time with this CD as this is not an album that you can take in after only a couple of spins. And I'm really hoping to find time to listen to the 5.1 mix this weekend.

Has anyone listened to it in 5.1 yet? Comments? Opinions?


MAN OH MAN OH MAN. How could anyone think that AWAKE is their weakest album....dang I love that album. Although I still love IMAGES AND WORDS, but probably play FALLING INTO INFINITY THE MOST....thanks for the love FA.

kexodusc
06-09-2007, 03:10 AM
MAN OH MAN OH MAN. How could anyone think that AWAKE is their weakest album....dang I love that album. .
I love it too...just like all the others more.

Luis31
06-11-2007, 02:20 PM
Absolutely agree with you on this one! I really like what the band did in "In the Presence of Enemies" Part I, II, and especially "The Ministry of Lost Souls". BTW, did you know that John Petrucci's lyrics for "In the Presence of Enemies" were inspired by a mangwha (Korean comic, volume 1 out 15 currently...) called "Priest".

Rich-n-Texas
06-11-2007, 04:49 PM
Another thread building up my expectations. NO SPOILERS PLEASE!!! :hand:

I ordered Chaos along with Snakes and Arrows and should have them by weeks end. Dream Theater is another one of those bands that I'm sure I've heard in the past, but none of their song titles rings a bell. As long as their tunes give me a good heavy beat, searing guitars and intelligible lyrics I'm sure I'll like it. Ooooooooooo yeeeeah he!!!

likeitloud
06-12-2007, 04:48 AM
Like FA, I wasn't into this disc at first, After 5 or 6 listens, It gets better and better. One
thing most fans already know, Mike Portnoy can be mentioned with any of the great
drummers you can come up with. The drum tracks on this disc is nothing short of genius.
The guitars also get high marks, Pertrucci is excellent (As always).

PeruvianSkies
06-12-2007, 06:40 AM
Today I was finally able to spend some serious time listening to this album and I must say that I am enjoying it quite alot. I'll continue to listen throughout the day as well, but I wanted to know what everyones thoughts were on the overall sound quality of the disc....

I have never been that impressed with DREAM THEATER's sound quality on CD and that's a real shame considering this band is always seeking perfection, then to jeopardize that quality with a compressed CD just doesn't make sense...

Thoughts????

kexodusc
06-12-2007, 11:13 AM
I have never been that impressed with DREAM THEATER's sound quality on CD and that's a real shame considering this band is always seeking perfection, then to jeopardize that quality with a compressed CD just doesn't make sense...

Thoughts????

When I compare DT to some really excellent CD's I'm disappointed,but when I compare them to a lot of other, similar heavy rock/metal CD's I own or hear, I have to say they're at or above average. I think it's just the trend of boosting the bass too much and cranking the gain up too high to catch attention that sends some DT songs to clip-city.

They're as guilty as everyone else, but they're not relatively bad because so many are guilty of the same?
You hit the nail on the head though - what they excel in songwriting and musical prowess they seem to lack in the studio. They're not reference for sure. Some are pretty weak, but typical of heavy music. Oh well. I own dozens of far worse recordings that I've never really wasted much time over it.

That said, I find this one to be better than most of their previous albums, nothing groundbreaking, but I can't help but wonder if the move to RoadRunner (which has some groups with very good sounding CD's) from Atlantic is responsible?

PeruvianSkies
06-12-2007, 12:33 PM
When I compare DT to some really excellent CD's I'm disappointed,but when I compare them to a lot of other, similar heavy rock/metal CD's I own or hear, I have to say they're at or above average. I think it's just the trend of boosting the bass too much and cranking the gain up too high to catch attention that sends some DT songs to clip-city.

They're as guilty as everyone else, but they're not relatively bad because so many are guilty of the same?
You hit the nail on the head though - what they excel in songwriting and musical prowess they seem to lack in the studio. They're not reference for sure. Some are pretty weak, but typical of heavy music. Oh well. I own dozens of far worse recordings that I've never really wasted much time over it.

That said, I find this one to be better than most of their previous albums, nothing groundbreaking, but I can't help but wonder if the move to RoadRunner (which has some groups with very good sounding CD's) from Atlantic is responsible?


Well, that could certainly be the case...I notice with some of the other groups on Atlantic that there seems to be some dryness to the recording or the levels are all over the place, which might have to do more with the mixing than the transfer to CD, or it could be a combination of factors. This CD overall seems to be a better mix and I might add that based on what I have listened to deeply that this is a mix with LOTS of stuff going on, even more than most of their previous stuff, which always had layers and layers.

3-LockBox
06-12-2007, 01:48 PM
I like the prog-metal approach - not too much wankery and pretentiousness like, say, Pain of Salvation


What do you find pretencious about Pain Of Salvation that you don't find in Dream Theater? Yes, POS has delved into self-indulgence a time or two, especially the last two albums, but what prog-rock band hasn't?

kexodusc
06-12-2007, 02:37 PM
What do you find pretencious about Pain Of Salvation that you don't find in Dream Theater? Yes, POS has delved into self-indulgence a time or two, especially the last two albums, but what prog-rock band hasn't?

I never criticize a band for a little self-indulgence, but when it comes at the expense of a good song, instead of complementing it that's when things start to deteriorate.

I really like 2 of POS's albums.

I was really into these guys for awhile after reading and hearing a lot about them. Loved The Perfect Element, thought Remedy Lane was the start of something big.

I always felt that even though they could match or exceed Dream Theater's wankery , and self-indulgence, POS never approached the same level of songwriting - the melodies, hooks, harmonies - kept thinking it would come. It never did. You'd take the bad DT because the good DT would leave a song or riff in your head for days. I never quite got there with POS, but that's okay, I'm a big Symphony X fan who I criticize for the same reason and I put POS right up there with them. Just don't like the direction POS is headed...

3-LockBox
06-12-2007, 05:01 PM
I was really into these guys for awhile after reading and hearing a lot about them. Loved The Perfect Element, thought Remedy Lane was the start of something big.

Me too. Remedy Lane is a powerful album in writing, performance and production.





Just don't like the direction POS is headed...

Actually...now that you mention it...me either. I was fairly disappointed with both BE and Scarsick. Both have moments, but the focus is gone.

Rich-n-Texas
06-15-2007, 10:41 AM
...The drum tracks on this disc is nothing short of genius.
The guitars also get high marks, Pertrucci is excellent (As always).

I agree with that! I don't think I've ever heard drumbeats intergrated (for lack of a better term) into music like that. There's no *business-as-usual* with that guy is there?

The MC mix is excellent on the DVD-A, the emphasis on bass on some of the tracks helps with the LFE deadzone in my listening room, and the musicality on all tracks definitly did not disappoint. I bought it bundled with Snakes & Arrows @ Amazon... money well spent. :thumbsup:

kexodusc
06-15-2007, 10:49 AM
I agree with that! I don't think I've ever heard drumbeats intergrated (for lack of a better term) into music like that. There's no *business-as-usual* with that guy is there?

The MC mix is excellent on the DVD-A, the emphasis on bass on some of the tracks helps with the LFE deadzone in my listening room, and the musicality on all tracks definitly did not disappoint. I bought it bundled with Snakes & Arrows @ Amazon... money well spent. :thumbsup:

You could split a cab with the number of drummers that can keep up with Mike Portnoy.
The guy on Snakes & Arrows would be in it too, though.
This your first Dream Theater album?

Rich-n-Texas
06-15-2007, 11:02 AM
Yes, but again I'm certain I've heard their music somewhere in my past. I got all wrapped up with Pearl Jam and Alice In Chains in the late 80's - early 90's, so I missed a lot. I'll always be one who likes to crank the tunes with a familiar rock-n-roll beat, and DT really fills that need for me. And it's good to know that bands I favored years ago like Rush are willing to, once-in-a-while, return to their musical roots. S&A is exactly the Rush I remember. :thumbsup:

PeruvianSkies
06-15-2007, 08:51 PM
You could split a cab with the number of drummers that can keep up with Mike Portnoy.
The guy on Snakes & Arrows would be in it too, though.
This your first Dream Theater album?

What I particulary love about Portnoy and this also goes for Neil Peart, is that they are more than just 'drummers'. They have taken drumming to a while new level and rather than just play certain beats and such, they are creative with how the drums/percussion are part of the song. To them, it's a voice as well. Both of these men are so gifted with their timing and sheer intricacies on the set. It's also amazing just how tight Petrucci and Portnoy are together and some think that this is just on the album, but then you see/hear them live and you realize that what you hear on the studio album CAN be recreated live. They are unreal!

kexodusc
06-16-2007, 03:05 AM
What I particulary love about Portnoy and this also goes for Neil Peart, is that they are more than just 'drummers'. They have taken drumming to a while new level and rather than just play certain beats and such, they are creative with how the drums/percussion are part of the song. To them, it's a voice as well. Both of these men are so gifted with their timing and sheer intricacies on the set. It's also amazing just how tight Petrucci and Portnoy are together and some think that this is just on the album, but then you see/hear them live and you realize that what you hear on the studio album CAN be recreated live. They are unreal!
Yeah, both those guys contribute big-time to their respective bands song writing efforts. A lot of drummers are just there to provide a beat.

ForeverAutumn
06-16-2007, 06:59 AM
It's also amazing just how tight Petrucci and Portnoy are together and some think that this is just on the album, but then you see/hear them live and you realize that what you hear on the studio album CAN be recreated live. They are unreal!

One of the most amazing things that I've ever seen at a live concert was Petrucci and Rudess playing together and matching each other note for note. Both sets of hands were a blur. I think that Petrucci and Portnoy often overshadow the rest of the band and Rudess and Myung don't get the credit that they deserve. The amount of talent in this band continues to leave me in awe.

PeruvianSkies
06-17-2007, 10:16 PM
One of the most amazing things that I've ever seen at a live concert was Petrucci and Rudess playing together and matching each other note for note. Both sets of hands were a blur. I think that Petrucci and Portnoy often overshadow the rest of the band and Rudess and Myung don't get the credit that they deserve. The amount of talent in this band continues to leave me in awe.

Yeah, the are so in sync with each other you would swear it was computerized, but computers sometimes mess up, these guys are beyond that! lol.

Rich-n-Texas
06-18-2007, 05:03 PM
I have to say that "In the Presence of Enemies Pt. 2 is right now probably my favorite track for just the reasons being discussed here. As the song starts and Mike Portnoy starts playing, the timing at first sounds wrong, but it isn't. That's what gets me going into the song. I completely focus on the drums and then listen for the other instuments to synchronize with it. Fastinating. And he integrates his double bass drums into the songs more than anyone in my recent memory.

I watched the documentary yesterday which just made me appreciate this band even more. They've got their sh!t together and it looks like they get along well with each other. I'm curious... they keep a list of riffs? I don't know how a song is created in this day and age but it almost sounds like music *modules* that are fit together to form the song. A guitar riff is a module, the bass track is a module...etc. Is that correct? I saw a LOT of computers being used in the studio (BTW, the speakers looked like B&W's to me), so I'm wondering how it was done before this technology came to the forefront of the music industry. Are songs more homogenized now compared to how it was done in the 50's & 60's? :confused5:

Oh, one more question: is DT a Canadian band?

ForeverAutumn
06-18-2007, 05:32 PM
DT is an American band, but singer James LaBrie is Canadian.

PeruvianSkies
06-18-2007, 05:35 PM
DT is an American band, but singer James LaBrie is Canadian.

From what I recall, I thought I remember the band talking about how they don't really 'hang out' as a band when they are off-duty. In other words, they come together to do the studio work and tour, but outside of that they aren't exactly buddy buddy. I am sure that they get tired of each other and maybe this helps with their chemistry...I think Rage Against the Machine also said the same thing about their work ethic.

bobsticks
06-18-2007, 05:37 PM
You could split a cab with the number of drummers that can keep up with Mike Portnoy.
The guy on Snakes & Arrows would be in it too, though.


I would imagine Stewart Copeland must be sitting on someone's lap, eh?

Rich-n-Texas
06-18-2007, 06:35 PM
From what I recall, I thought I remember the band talking about how they don't really 'hang out' as a band when they are off-duty. In other words, they come together to do the studio work and tour, but outside of that they aren't exactly buddy buddy. I am sure that they get tired of each other and maybe this helps with their chemistry...I think Rage Against the Machine also said the same thing about their work ethic.
You're probably right. I was speaking to the camaraderie they exhibit in the studio.


DT is an American band, but singer James LaBrie is Canadian.
Wow! One for us yanks... almost.

Rich-n-Texas
06-18-2007, 06:37 PM
I would imagine Stewart Copeland must be sitting on someone's lap, eh?
No, there's an empty seat right next to Keith Moon.

3-LockBox
06-19-2007, 09:14 AM
I watched the documentary yesterday which just made me appreciate this band even more. They've got their sh!t together and it looks like they get along well with each other. I'm curious... they keep a list of riffs? I don't know how a song is created in this day and age but it almost sounds like music *modules* that are fit together to form the song. A guitar riff is a module, the bass track is a module...etc. Is that correct? I saw a LOT of computers being used in the studio (BTW, the speakers looked like B&W's to me), so I'm wondering how it was done before this technology came to the forefront of the music industry. Are songs more homogenized now compared to how it was done in the 50's & 60's

You know, I wasn't a fan of this band at all when I heard the first few albums, but then I started getting into them just a few years ago. If you like this album, then by all means, pick up their last few albums, all the way back to the Scenes From A Memory. Superb song writing and album structure. I love their crunching sound. There are some very good metal bands around in this same genre, but few have the same crunching, Sabbathesque sound that DT has...its Metallica with bass! Their amps definately go to 11.

As far as computerization is concerned, many bands use computers to make music these days. Some artists embrace new technology, some don't. DT is definately a band that embraces it. Have you seen any of DT's concert DVDs? I own Live At Budokan; they certainly do put on a show and the sound is stunning. The keyboard player's set up is a marvel, not just in technology, but in function as well. Talk about multi-tasking...I'm amazed that he can operate this thing and play music as well. Most musicians I've met just know their instrument and that's it...they may or may not know, where to plug them in.

You know, you may be a candidate for Threshold...

MasterCylinder
06-19-2007, 09:33 AM
I have 2nd-row-center seats for the DT show in Chicago on August 10th.
Naturally I had to buy this CD to learn all the music because they will be promoting (at least some of) it on the new tour.

Rich..........
1) I also bought this along with S&A.........good job......and
2) Yes........Portnoy, Petrucci & Myung are all from Long Island and studied together at the Berklee school in Boston..........Rudess joined much later.

kexodusc
06-19-2007, 09:34 AM
You know, I wasn't a fan of this band at all when I heard the first few albums, but then I started getting into them just a few years ago. If you like this album, then by all means, pick up their last few albums, all the way back to the Scenes From A Memory. Superb song writing and album structure. I love their crunching sound. There are some very good metal bands around in this same genre, but few have the same crunching, Sabbathesque sound that DT has...its Metallica with bass! Their amps definately go to 11.

As far as computerization is concerned, many bands use computers to make music these days. Some artists embrace new technology, some don't. DT is definately a band that embraces it. Have you seen any of DT's concert DVDs? I own Live At Budokan; they certainly do put on a show and the sound is stunning. The keyboard player's set up is a marvel, not just in technology, but in function as well. Talk about multi-tasking...I'm amazed that he can operate this thing and play music as well. Most musicians I've met just know their instrument and that's it...they may or may not know, where to plug them in.

You know, you may be a candidate for Threshold...
No kidding on all the computer stuff - I can play piano, but I'd be lost playing with that stuff. Jordan Rudess is something else.

Tell me about this...Threshold...

ForeverAutumn
06-19-2007, 10:10 AM
Tell me about this...Threshold...

Threshold is lovely... if that term can be used for a progressive metal band.

Cut and pasted from a previous thread of mine:

This is a great CD. It's modern day metal, very heavy in spots. But it has a bit of an 80's nostalgia to it in that it's very melodic. The store owner spun a couple of partial tracks for me before I agreed to purchase it and I described it to him as toe tapping metal. It has the hooks of some 80's hair bands, but incredibly good musicianship to make the songs more complex and interesting. Dead Reckoning is my first Threshold CD, but it won't be my last.

I've only heard their latest CD. It's actually much more progressive than my description above makes it sound. It took me a week to get it out of my player long enough to listen to the other CDs that I purchased at the same time.

I've officially spun it more than the newest DT disk. If you like DT, this could be compared to the lighter side of them.

3-LockBox
06-19-2007, 10:15 AM
No kidding on all the computer stuff - I can play piano, but I'd be lost playing with that stuff. Jordan Rudess is something else.

Tell me about this...Threshold...

They are another prog metal band, not unlike DT. One could say they're a DT clone, but they've been around nearly as long as DT has. They're similar to bands like Pallas or Pendragon, but with much more bite. They play with intensity, but not with the machine like precision of DT; they aren't as crunchy.

FA likes them.

kexodusc
06-19-2007, 10:16 AM
Threshold is lovely... if that term can be used for a progressive metal band.

Cut and pasted from a previous thread of mine:

This is a great CD. It's modern day metal, very heavy in spots. But it has a bit of an 80's nostalgia to it in that it's very melodic. The store owner spun a couple of partial tracks for me before I agreed to purchase it and I described it to him as toe tapping metal. It has the hooks of some 80's hair bands, but incredibly good musicianship to make the songs more complex and interesting. Dead Reckoning is my first Threshold CD, but it won't be my last.

I've only heard their latest CD. It's actually much more progressive than my description above makes it sound. It took me a week to get it out of my player long enough to listen to the other CDs that I purchased at the same time.

I've officially spun it more than the newest DT disk. If you like DT, this could be compared to the lighter side of them.

Guess I'll have to check'em out now...
Cool.

kexodusc
06-19-2007, 10:19 AM
They are another prog metal band, not unlike DT. One could say they're a DT clone, but they've been around nearly as long as DT has.
I'm a bit shocked I've not heard of them before...hmmm, must have browsed them in a few threads here and not zeroed in on them.
Sounds like something I'd like - DT, POS, Arena, IQ, Pendragon, Symphony X are big hits with me.

ForeverAutumn
06-19-2007, 11:12 AM
FA likes them.

LOL. Can you tell?

Seems to me that you like them too. You're just trying to put the blame on me in case Kex and Rich don't like them. Then you can say that it was all FA's fault, right? Wrong!

If I go down, I'm taking you with me brotha.

I need another coffee.....

kexodusc
06-19-2007, 11:29 AM
Hmm, been trying them out on the band's website ..I'll bite.

I see what you mean about the 80's nostalgia. These guys TOTALLY remind me of Dokken! Wicked!!!

GMichael
06-19-2007, 12:48 PM
LOL. Can you tell?

Seems to me that you like them too. You're just trying to put the blame on me in case Kex and Rich don't like them. Then you can say that it was all FA's fault, right? Wrong!

If I go down, I'm taking you with me brotha.

I need another coffee.....

Breath buddy, breath. It's going to be alright.
Repeat after me, m-e-l-l-o-o-o-o-o-w, m-e-l-l-o-o-o-o-o-o-w, AAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM

3-LockBox
06-19-2007, 10:23 PM
Breath buddy, breath. It's going to be alright.
Repeat after me, m-e-l-l-o-o-o-o-o-w, m-e-l-l-o-o-o-o-o-o-w, AAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM


Simmer down now! Simmer down....



:cornut:

Rich-n-Texas
06-20-2007, 04:44 AM
You know, I wasn't a fan of this band at all when I heard the first few albums, but then I started getting into them just a few years ago. If you like this album, then by all means, pick up their last few albums, all the way back to the Scenes From A Memory. Superb song writing and album structure. I love their crunching sound. There are some very good metal bands around in this same genre, but few have the same crunching, Sabbathesque sound that DT has...its Metallica with bass! Their amps definately go to 11.
That's a good way to describe it. My metal roots are in Black Sabbath, and although I think heavy metal purists have great disdain for Metallica, to me their stuff is much more polished and appealing than some of the gritty raspy stuff (The Death Metal flavor comes to mind).



As far as computerization is concerned, many bands use computers to make music these days. Some artists embrace new technology, some don't. DT is definately a band that embraces it. Have you seen any of DT's concert DVDs? I own Live At Budokan; they certainly do put on a show and the sound is stunning. The keyboard player's set up is a marvel, not just in technology, but in function as well. Talk about multi-tasking...I'm amazed that he can operate this thing and play music as well. Most musicians I've met just know their instrument and that's it...they may or may not know, where to plug them in.
No, haven't seen any, but I'm trying to build a live concert DVD collection so I'll check it out. Amazon's got the Live at Budokan disk; not sure if there are any sample tracks available and how much it costs, but I'm sure it's worth it. Thanks for the suggestion.



You know, you may be a candidate for Threshold...
I'm almost all ears (except for a little bit of high frequency hearing loss :( )! And I'll listen for any traces of Dokken Kex. :thumbsup:

Rich-n-Texas
06-20-2007, 05:24 AM
I have 2nd-row-center seats for the DT show in Chicago on August 10th.
Naturally I had to buy this CD to learn all the music because they will be promoting (at least some of) it on the new tour.

Rich..........
1) I also bought this along with S&A.........good job......and
2) Yes........Portnoy, Petrucci & Myung are all from Long Island and studied together at the Berklee school in Boston..........Rudess joined much later.
I'm wondering why I didn't pick up on the Long Island accent. I'm becoming intrigued with this band so I guess I was more interested in hearing what they were saying rather than how they said it.

And I'm curious though as to why John Myung didn't get any talk time in the documentary? (Already asked and answered?)

ForeverAutumn
06-20-2007, 06:23 AM
You know, you may be a candidate for Threshold...

Speaking of Threshold...have you heard more than just their latest one? If I want to pick up another CD of theirs, can you make a recommendation as to which one?

kexodusc
06-20-2007, 06:59 AM
Speaking of Threshold...have you heard more than just their latest one? If I want to pick up another CD of theirs, can you make a recommendation as to which one?
I asked this question myself last night when deciding what album to buy with Dead Reckoning...the general consensus I found almost everywhere was 2002's "Critical Mass".
Haven't ordered it yet, I'll wait and see what happens here...

Nobody around here stocks these guys.:(

GMichael
06-20-2007, 07:23 AM
If you guys (and FA) keep this up, I'll have to run out and try this band. I tried PT and was very disappointed. Is this group better?

kexodusc
06-20-2007, 07:30 AM
I tried PT and was very disappointed.
Pfffff....what do you know? :rolleyes: j/k
Which Porcupine Tree CD did you try?

Is this group better?
Which band DT? Depends what you're looking for in music I guess, but IMO, definitely.
Threshold? Early signs suggest "not quite" to me, but they seem to be less on the whinny, artsy side of rock'n'roll than PT - which might make them more palatable to you?

3-LockBox
06-20-2007, 08:46 AM
Speaking of Threshold...have you heard more than just their latest one? If I want to pick up another CD of theirs, can you make a recommendation as to which one?

I've not heard the new Threshold in total, I have Critical Mass and Hypothetical, which are 5 and 6 years old respectively. I have heard Subsurface, but wasn't bowled over. Their older stuff is proggier to my ears. Lots more keyboard as well (but not in a bad way ;) ) I'd recommend Critical Mass. Parts of Hypothetical are great, parts are so-so, like early DT.

Kex's Dokken analogy is pretty close. Some of Threshold's shorter tunes verge on '80s cheese, but they shine on their longer compositions. They never delve too deeply into the relm of male/female relationship fodder of the '80s though (cock rock, it is not). Its prolly hard for this band and DT to escape comparisons to '80s metal simply because they play normal hard rock and have singers who sing in standard, non cartoonish voices.

kexodusc
06-20-2007, 08:54 AM
Kex's Dokken analogy is pretty close. Some of Threshold's shorter tunes verge on '80s cheese, but they shine on their longer compositions.
Whaddya mean "80's cheese"??? Dokken rules!

Rich-n-Texas
06-20-2007, 10:32 AM
I remember Dokken, Scorpions, Night Ranger and a few other bands who I think all fit into a *category*, but I don't think they were called "cheese" bands. Was it Glamm rock?

Did he say cock rock? :shocked:

3-LockBox
06-20-2007, 10:39 AM
I remember Dokken, Scorpions, Night Ranger and a few other bands who I think all fit into a *category*, but I don't think they were called "cheese" bands. Was it Glamm rock?

Did he say cock rock? :shocked:

Amazing what you can, and can't, say on this forum. Don't even try to say Donald ***en though...:rolleyes:

No...there's no genre named 'cheese rock' that I know of...glam rock or glam metal is the correct terms for cheese rock. ;)

GMichael
06-20-2007, 10:40 AM
I remember Dokken, Scorpions, Night Ranger and a few other bands who I think all fit into a *category*, but I don't think they were called "cheese" bands. Was it Glamm rock?

Did he say cock rock? :shocked:

We always called them, "big hair bands."

Rich-n-Texas
06-20-2007, 12:15 PM
That's what it was. I think it was artists like David Bowie (Ziggy Stardust) that were lumped into the Glamm rock category.

PeruvianSkies
06-22-2007, 10:03 AM
Most Dream Theater fans will recall September 11th 2001 as not only the date that the World Trade Center was attacked, but also the date when their LIVE SCENES FROM A MEMORY was released, it was a Tuesday. I was in college at the time and woke up that morning headed for school and to ramp me up for the release of this CD, I decided to put in the song 'Trial of Tears' for some odd reason. Unbeknownst to me at the time, it was almost exactly at that same exact time that I was driving and listening to this song that the first and second attacks were taking place. Later on I made the connection and realized that the lyrics of the song reflect what was happening "it's raining on the streets of New York City...it's raining, raining deep in Heaven". How insane is that? Then, to my shock when I was picking up the CD a few hours later (post-attack) to find that album cover with the Dream Theater logo and the city of New York blazing on fire.

http://cnparm.home.texas.net/911/Backg/Dream_Theater.jpg

The album art was later recalled and I still have two copies of the CD with original artwork, one opening and one still sealed.

ForeverAutumn
06-22-2007, 10:54 AM
Oooh. I got shivers reading your story.

I knew about the CD cover, but didn't get into DT until a year or so after 9/11. Otherwise, I would have had that cover too. I've bought every DT disk since Train of Thought on the release day.

PeruvianSkies
06-22-2007, 09:56 PM
Oooh. I got shivers reading your story.

I knew about the CD cover, but didn't get into DT until a year or so after 9/11. Otherwise, I would have had that cover too. I've bought every DT disk since Train of Thought on the release day.

I've always wanted to give you shivers...now I can die happy.

PeruvianSkies
06-29-2007, 09:28 PM
After some serious listening time I wanted to post my comments about the overall quality of the CD, just the CD, not the DVD. So here goes....

Dream Theater, as most are aware, have not had a great history of good recordings on CD with their material, which is a crying shame. Most of their recordings do not exhibit the bands potential and feel compressed, restricted, and not very lively.

Heavy Metal and Hard Rock are not the easiest types of music for a system to handle well, no matter what the recording. I always find myself wanting to crank the volume up, but then my face turns bitter when I hear the harshness of most recordings once you get them crankin'. For Dream Theater, the mixture of a progressive rock feel has always been crippled by CD and the mix has always been rather blah. Systematic Chaos is not the greatest recording i've ever heard, but it's probably the bands best to date. The mix is a bit more interesting and I can discern more notes and overall clarity in the background and foreground of the mix. The low-end is present, but never feels fully engaged like it should or could...especially with a bass player like Myung and the fact that he plays a 6 sting bass. The more orchestral moments of the mix are decent, but don't swell as much as I think they should and feel a bit constricted, although the guitar is layered in rather nice. Track 7 is a good example of this at the very beginning.

I found myself turning the volume up generally much more on this recording than most other CD's for some reason. The vocals are comfortably centered for the most part with some good clarity and the full range seems exposed, which is a highlight for sure. The one thing that can be said is that this recording sounds much more 3-D than any of Dream Theater's previous albums. It's a much more balanced album overall with the right blend of each instrument and at any volume level. It still sounds a bit compressed, but overall I am satisfied and can only hope that they continue on with not only great albums like this one, but also super recordings. I'd love to hear this band on SACD.