Speaker recommendations

[ChrisG]

I need some advice on speakers for a 7.1 system. We are remodeling our family room and I recently purchased the Outlaw 970/7075 preamp processor and amplifier system. I've been considering the Orb speaker system, which would work OK for the front speakers and subwoofer placement but our family room is adjacent to the kitchen area so I only have one side wall to mount the surround speakers so I'm considering mounting them in the ceiling.

Would it work to place the surround speakers in the ceiling? If so, does any one have any recommendations for good quality ceiling speakers that would complement the Orbs? Orbs can be mounted on the ceiling with brackets but I would prefer to mount the speakers in the ceiling.

I suppose I could place the rear speakers on a rear wall or I can just use this as a 5.1 system for the time being.

I'd appreciate any comments or advice.

[bobsticks]

Hey ChrisG,

Welcome to the AR Forum. Could one guess correctly that you are dealing with a small to medium-sized room? I ask this because if you're setting up in anything much larger than a 12 X 20 the Orbs may have some difficulty filling the room even in the 7.1 format.

FWIW, there is virtually no 7.1 source material out there. In most cases what you are hearing is a matrixed signal. The importance of this lies in that more is not always better. If it were me, especially in a smallish room, I would concentrate in getting the best 5.1 setup that I could. The atmospheric cues given by the other two channels can easily overlap and become muddy in less-than-optimal circumstances.

IMO, save many dollars on two redundant speakers and spend a few dollars on an SPL meter with which you can properly calibrate postioning.

Have fun.

[PeruvianSkies]

Hey ChrisG,

Welcome to the AR Forum. Could one guess correctly that you are dealing with a small to medium-sized room? I ask this because if you're setting up in anything much larger than a 12 X 20 the Orbs may have some difficulty filling the room even in the 7.1 format.

FWIW, there is virtually no 7.1 source material out there. In most cases what you are hearing is a matrixed signal. The importance of this lies in that more is not always better. If it were me, especially in a smallish room, I would concentrate in getting the best 5.1 setup that I could. The atmospheric cues given by the other two channels can easily overlap and become muddy in less-than-optimal circumstances.

IMO, save many dollars on two redundant speakers and spend a few dollars on an SPL meter with which you can properly calibrate postioning.

Have fun.

I'd even take that a step further and get a great 2.0 setup first, then expland to 5.1.

[ChrisG]

Thanks for your comments. The room is actually very close to the dimensions you quote, it's 13 x 21. If the Orbs don't quite fill up the room, I also was considering the Cobalt 816 s for the front speakers.

[bobsticks]

If you can arrange it check out the JMs in your home. I would bet that you'll find them superior the Orbs. Many dealers will let you try something over a weekend. An Outlaw/816 combo would be a very nice start.

[topspeed]

Definitely check out the JML's if you can. Driving a set of Orbs with that Outlaw combo would be like dropping a Ford Racing Crate V8 in an Escort. Just this side of overkill, methinks.

What's your budget?

[ChrisG]

Thanks for your comments about the Orbs and the 816s. My budget is in the $1.5 -2K range for speakers. I've also been trying to listen to the Axiom M80 and AV123 RS 760 but it's very slow process.
Thanks again,
Chris

[Woochifer]

Thanks for your comments about the Orbs and the 816s. My budget is in the $1.5 -2K range for speakers. I've also been trying to listen to the Axiom M80 and AV123 RS 760 but it's very slow process.
Thanks again,
Chris

Just get out there and start auditioning. Speakers are the one area where you should not limit yourself to mail order options, since they are by far the most variable and subjective part of any audio setup. And you know someone with a pair of the Axiom and RS speakers you're interested in, you have to actually buy a set of mail order speakers just to listen to them. Big commitment up front, and major hassle and shipping charges if you decide you don't like them.

Your budget is a bit lean for a full on 7.1 speaker setup, so you should focus on identifying the speaker families that you like best. As PS suggested, you can start with two speakers or opt for the L/C/R speakers, or start with two front speakers and two surrounds, or start with two speakers plus the subwoofer. It's all contingent on which particular speaker setup you like within your budget.

If you plan on going with a subwoofer, you should also decide early on if you want full size tower or bookshelf speakers up front. That decision up front will have a big role in narrowing down your speaker choices. In general, I prefer bookshelf speakers because in my listenings comparably priced bookshelf speakers will sacrifice the bass response while providing superior imaging and tonal coherency across the middle frequencies with much less audible box resonance. Ultimately, you should do your listenings and use your ears to decide the type of sound/configuration you want to start with, then make your final choices by listening to how those speakers at home (a dealer demo room can have very different acoustics from your room, and a speaker that sounds good at the dealer might sound very different at home).

On ceiling mounted surrounds -- avoid them if you can. The downward angle and the close placement to the wall will create havoc with your surround imaging and noticeable tonal mismatches with your front speakers. If you're at all interested in optimal audio performance, forget about ceiling mounts. Go with ceiling mounts only if the design considerations are more important.

[bobsticks]

... but it's very slow process.Chris

That's OK, take your time. Many of us around here wished we had...might as well do it right the first time. Again, the Outlaws are giving you a solid foundation from which to start so make it a priority to find the best possible synergy. That way you won't end up with cd players in your closet, speakers in your bathroom and an amp sitting on your kitchen table. :biggrin5:

[topspeed]

With a $2K budget, you've got a couple of options:

1) Use the majority of it buy two really decent mains and a sub
2) Buy the whole shebang.

Which option you pick depends on your priorities. Most of the nutjobs here (including your humble narrator) would spend that on the mains and take time building from there. Do it this way, and you'll end up a rig you can be happy with for a very, very long time.

Option 2 get's you into the theater right now. The challenge is that a good sub is going to run you 25% of your budget...at minimum...right off the bat. A HSU VTF3 Mk2 or Dayton 12" from partsexpress.com would fit the bill quite nicely for your room size, but now you have $1,500 left to play with. While that's not chump change by any means, it's not a lot to spread around for 5 more speakers. The ones that come immediately to mind would be rig based around four Epos ELS3's + CC, four Paradigm Studio 20's + CC, or perhaps four B&W 685's + HTM6. You'll need to negotiate with your dealer on the Studio's and B&W's, but if you're looking at JML 816's, I'm guessing you've already figured this out or you're willing to spend a lot more than you're letting on.

A couple of ideas for your consideration:
* Don't skimp on the sub. A boomy, crappy sub can ruin everything.
* Spend a lot more on the mains and cc as this is where 90% of the information comes from.
* Take time positioning your sub. How? Ask us or research this site under "Richard Greene".
* Buy a spl meter and test disc and calibrate your system.

Take your time auditioning speakers and enjoy the process. A great speaker can give you decades of enjoyment so remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Hope this helps.

[ChrisG]

Audio Advisor had the 816 s on sale for $975/pr in the technics black finish. I've been checking Craigs List (SF) and other places, as well. But, as you have all recommended, it's time to start the leg work and do some more listening but there are only a few places in SF East Bay area that carry the products in which I'm interested, so I've resorted to spending quite a bit of time looking at the Internet mail order houses.

Thanks again,
Chris

[blackraven]

Check out NHT's, they make some sweet sounding bookshelf and monitor speakers.

[ChrisG]

This group has been very helpful. After considering all of the comments and advice, I've decided to start simply with two main speakers and possibly a sub, if necessary. I've found a couple of good choices and I'm trying to decide between them.

One is the Vandersteen 3a Signature speaker pair which is available for $2K and the other is a Thiel 3.6 pair which is selling for $1800, both pairs used, of course. The Vandersteen's are in mint condition. So, even though the prices are at the upper end of my budget at this time, the reviews and comments from forum members have led me in this direction.

Thanks again to all of you,
Chris (SF East Bay)

[PeruvianSkies]

This group has been very helpful. After considering all of the comments and advice, I've decided to start simply with two main speakers and possibly a sub, if necessary. I've found a couple of good choices and I'm trying to decide between them.

One is the Vandersteen 3a Signature speaker pair which is available for $2K and the other is a Thiel 3.6 pair which is selling for $1800, both pairs used, of course. The Vandersteen's are in mint condition. So, even though the prices are at the upper end of my budget at this time, the reviews and comments from forum members have led me in this direction.

Thanks again to all of you,
Chris (SF East Bay)

I don't think you'll be a bit disappointed with this direction that you are going. Worst case scenario you'll have an awesome 2-channel setup, which can easily be configured to a 5.1 system down the line. You might be suprised at what a great 2-channel setup can do, I know I was months ago when I got my PSB Platinums.

[Woochifer]

This group has been very helpful. After considering all of the comments and advice, I've decided to start simply with two main speakers and possibly a sub, if necessary. I've found a couple of good choices and I'm trying to decide between them.

One is the Vandersteen 3a Signature speaker pair which is available for $2K and the other is a Thiel 3.6 pair which is selling for $1800, both pairs used, of course. The Vandersteen's are in mint condition. So, even though the prices are at the upper end of my budget at this time, the reviews and comments from forum members have led me in this direction.

Thanks again to all of you,
Chris (SF East Bay)

Have you given those speakers a listen? Definitely do, because these are among the more polarizing speaker brands on the market.

The Vandys and the Thiels are very much a hit-or-miss option. Similar design approaches, but different tonal characteristics. The Vandersteens (which I have heard) are probably the best imaging conventional driver speakers I've heard, and their center speaker does an outstanding job at timbre matching with the mains. Yet, they have a sound that I would best describe as perplexing -- some things are standout great, other things just make me scratch my head. Vandersteen though has a very dedicated following, and does too many things exceptionally well to discount them outright. But, be aware that they are definitely not for everyone.

I've not heard the Thiels, but some people have described them as having a bright sound (which is very different from the Vandys). Again, this is another speaker that has a very knowledgeable and dedicated following, and some equally vocal detractors. Best to give you ears the final verdict, rather than relying on hearsay and recommendations as the final arbiter.

[GMichael]

You could pick up a pair of these Strata Mini's. They have the subs built in. http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=78.1

Then you could slowly build the rest of your system.