the disc is DEAD

[pixelthis]

Saaw something in S&V mag that was quite startling, really.
Alpines new car stereo, a 450$ item, that was amazing not for what it had, but what it lacked.
Like most electronics these days it was "ipod" ready, with a screen for showing metadata,
a port, etc, but there was something it didnt have.
A CD PLAYER!
Yeah, ever since I first saw hobbyists playing Mp3s in their car off of their laptops I knew this was gonna happen.
Sure we've all been buying DVRS that dont use disc media at all, "music servers"
and "video servers " that store all of our stuff on hard drives, but this really brings it home,
when was the last time you saw a car player without a CD player?
They shoulda gotten some inkling from the way SACD and dvd audio crashed and burned,
quickly becoming niche formats, but they said "video is DIFFERENT"
People will FLOCK to HDDVD!!
Yeah right.
Lets face it between stuff not worth watching and stuff worth watching but not buying there's precious little left thats really collectible, and not that many collectors
If one of the new dvd formats surrvive its' conquest will be only the label of "the new laserdisc", a niche format for movie lovers and collectors, and rich with too much money.
In ten years if not five most media you get will be by wire, and you'll watch it offa a hard drive or memory chip.
With five gigs of memory selling for as much or less than lasedisc used to (after inflation)
which is enough for a dvd quality movie, how long before little silver discs join the el-cassette, 8 track tape and the turntable on the dustheap of history?

[kexodusc]

Saaw something in S&V mag that was quite startling, really.
Alpines new car stereo, a 450$ item, that was amazing not for what it had, but what it lacked.
Like most electronics these days it was "ipod" ready, with a screen for showing metadata,
a port, etc, but there was something it didnt have.
A CD PLAYER!
Yeah, ever since I first saw hobbyists playing Mp3s in their car off of their laptops I knew this was gonna happen.
Sure we've all been buying DVRS that dont use disc media at all, "music servers"
and "video servers " that store all of our stuff on hard drives, but this really brings it home,
when was the last time you saw a car player without a CD player?
They shoulda gotten some inkling from the way SACD and dvd audio crashed and burned,
quickly becoming niche formats, but they said "video is DIFFERENT"
People will FLOCK to HDDVD!!
Yeah right.
Lets face it between stuff not worth watching and stuff worth watching but not buying there's precious little left thats really collectible, and not that many collectors
If one of the new dvd formats surrvive its' conquest will be only the label of "the new laserdisc", a niche format for movie lovers and collectors, and rich with too much money.
In ten years if not five most media you get will be by wire, and you'll watch it offa a hard drive or memory chip.
With five gigs of memory selling for as much or less than lasedisc used to (after inflation)
which is enough for a dvd quality movie, how long before little silver discs join the el-cassette, 8 track tape and the turntable on the dustheap of history?

I think this sentiment is very premature. I have no doubt that someday we could see several media formats disappear, replaced by digital wire downloading services when hard drive capacity becomes cheap enough, plentiful, and convenient for audio/video needs. I have 200 DVD's on one shelf. I shudder to think of how much storage that would take in an uncompromised, original quality format.
I think downloading and hard-drive storage is not a bad idea, really, the only trick will be to condition everyone to make hard copy back-ups, or to have the service track your account so you can download another copy when your HD fries.

That said, I've maintained all along that people like buying tangible things. They want to be able to touch a CD. Despite what the music industry says, it's still selling discs near an all-time high level, making a ton of money. Downloading's been around for 5 or 6 years in the mainstream, and it's not totally taking over any time soon. I would think we're 1 or 2 more format changes away from that. Even then, it'll never completely disappear, because people like collecting album art work, etc..

People I know who were regular cd/dvd purchasers are still buying CD's and DVD's. I get the impression the whole downloading thing is appealing to a different, more casual music/video consumer.

[N. Abstentia]

I haven't touched a CD in over 6 months, other than to rip some to my computer. Ever since I got my Zune which connects to my Xbox 360 I find myself not wanting to bother with the actual CD. And if what I want to hear is not on my Zune, it's on my computer which serves it up to the Xbox 360 over the network.

Not sure if the disc is dead, but it's mortally wounded. Especially CD's. However I do still handle quite a few SACD's and DVD's.

[kexodusc]

I haven't touched a CD in over 6 months, other than to rip some to my computer. Ever since I got my Zune which connects to my Xbox 360 I find myself not wanting to bother with the actual CD. And if what I want to hear is not on my Zune, it's on my computer which serves it up to the Xbox 360 over the network.

Not sure if the disc is dead, but it's mortally wounded. Especially CD's. However I do still handle quite a few SACD's and DVD's.

A HA!
The question isn't whether you handle the discs to listen to the music though - the new Dream Theater album out this week - are you going to download it, or buy the CD and rip it to store on all your devices?

[basite]

sometime, history will repeat itselves, the cd will dissapear, and the vinyl record will live on...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[N. Abstentia]

A HA!
The question isn't whether you handle the discs to listen to the music though - the new Dream Theater album out this week - are you going to download it, or buy the CD and rip it to store on all your devices?

I've already downloaded it from the Zune store! Gotta love that 'all you can eat' subscription...if I didn't already have them all I could download the ENTIRE Dream Theater catalog :)

[kexodusc]

I've already downloaded it from the Zune store! Gotta love that 'all you can eat' subscription...if I didn't already have them all I could download the ENTIRE Dream Theater catalog :)

What format are they letting you download it in? I've tried lossless WMA and MP3's now and they're still a far cry from the real thing when I play it on a stereo. Anyone offering the unaltered .wav version yet?

[N. Abstentia]

Zune offers them in 192k WMA, which is what I always rip to anyway. So for free, I'm pleased as punch with that, it sounds great. But if I were paying for it, I'd just get the CD....which is one thing I hate about iTunes. Why pay $13 for crappy 128k MP3's when you can buy the real CD for the same price?

So like I said, the disc is not completely dead but most people don't bother with them anymore. I live in a town where the population is around 70,000 people...and there's not one store that sells CD's. I have to drive an HOUR to get to a CD store.

[kexodusc]

Zune offers them in 192k WMA, which is what I always rip to anyway. So for free, I'm pleased as punch with that, it sounds great. But if I were paying for it, I'd just get the CD....which is one thing I hate about iTunes. Why pay $13 for crappy 128k MP3's when you can buy the real CD for the same price?

So like I said, the disc is not completely dead but most people don't bother with them anymore. I live in a town where the population is around 70,000 people...and there's not one store that sells CD's. I have to drive an HOUR to get to a CD store.

Wow, I drive through a town of 11,000 people, on the way to a client of ours and it has a few CD stores. That's insane man...not 1 single CD store? Geez...judging by CD sales in 2007 Q1 though, the disc is definitely not dead and dwarfs legit downloading at least. Except for those of you who live in Future-opolis like NA.

At least Zune offers 192k...any VBR yet? In a few years we should have enough bandwidth and storage to get the wave file, or at least a better lossless codec than we have now. Even my mom complains about the sound on 128k mp3s.

[westcott]

Saaw something in S&V mag that was quite startling, really.
Alpines new car stereo, a 450$ item, that was amazing not for what it had, but what it lacked.
Like most electronics these days it was "ipod" ready, with a screen for showing metadata,
a port, etc, but there was something it didnt have.
A CD PLAYER!

Alpine must be making a killing on these with a huge margin without a CD transport. And people will buy them for that insane price. CD quality audio is marginal in the year 2007 and with the advancement in CE technology, we are still stuck with it because of copyright protection concerns from the content providers.

But, you know what, us audiophiles are in the minority and we are the last ones to be considered when providing downloadable music or video. And, it seems, now when making car stereos!!!

Alpine has found a great way to make larger margins and I guess in this day and age where quantity is more important than quallity, they are taking advantage.

[recoveryone]

Zune offers them in 192k WMA, which is what I always rip to anyway. So for free, I'm pleased as punch with that, it sounds great. But if I were paying for it, I'd just get the CD....which is one thing I hate about iTunes. Why pay $13 for crappy 128k MP3's when you can buy the real CD for the same price?

So like I said, the disc is not completely dead but most people don't bother with them anymore. I live in a town where the population is around 70,000 people...and there's not one store that sells CD's. I have to drive an HOUR to get to a CD store.

You must live where there are no BB, CC, Wal Mart, Targets, Sam's Club, Costco, or K-mart. Even a local 5-10 still sale CD's you can even get them at a car wash now days.

192 bitrate is a good rate I think lossless starts around 230-250 bitrate.

[PeruvianSkies]

Zune offers them in 192k WMA, which is what I always rip to anyway. So for free, I'm pleased as punch with that, it sounds great. But if I were paying for it, I'd just get the CD....which is one thing I hate about iTunes. Why pay $13 for crappy 128k MP3's when you can buy the real CD for the same price?

So like I said, the disc is not completely dead but most people don't bother with them anymore. I live in a town where the population is around 70,000 people...and there's not one store that sells CD's. I have to drive an HOUR to get to a CD store.


http://www.applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/zune-marketplaces-absurd-pricing-scheme/

[Mr Peabody]

The day the disc dies and nothing of higher quality to replace it, is the day I finally quit buying new music. I like technology but in my opinion the whole computer music marriage sucks. Maybe because I still listen to the music and don't just use it as background.

Alpine has always been synonomous with high quality car audio. This unit offer a CD changer controller? It will be interesting to see how this unit sells. Of course, if you have a 1 gig flash player I can't see why a car stereo couldn't even have that and then maybe satelite radio recording capability. Something else to take your mind off the road while your not talking on your cell phone:)

[N. Abstentia]

You must live where there are no BB, CC, Wal Mart, Targets, Sam's Club, Costco, or K-mart. Even a local 5-10 still sale CD's you can even get them at a car wash now days.



Well...like I said....nowhere to buy a CD. If you can go to your local car wash and buy me any Porcupine Tree CD, I'll pay you $2000 for it.

Restrictions apply.

[N. Abstentia]

Wow, I drive through a town of 11,000 people, on the way to a client of ours and it has a few CD stores. That's insane man...not 1 single CD store? Geez...judging by CD sales in 2007 Q1 though, the disc is definitely not dead and dwarfs legit downloading at least. Except for those of you who live in Future-opolis like NA.



We have every resturant you can think of, 8 coffe shops, 32 hotels, 4 post offices, but no CD stores. The guitar store here sells Squier guitars and Peavey amps, a pack of guitar strings is $10. I see the UPS guy more than I see my wife :) I order everything!

I told my wife that we could make a killing by opening a CD/guitar/home theater shop. But just my luck as soon as we opened up, a Best Buy and Guitar Center would move in!

[PeruvianSkies]

We have every resturant you can think of, 8 coffe shops, 32 hotels, 4 post offices, but no CD stores. The guitar store here sells Squier guitars and Peavey amps, a pack of guitar strings is $10. I see the UPS guy more than I see my wife :) I order everything!

I told my wife that we could make a killing by opening a CD/guitar/home theater shop. But just my luck as soon as we opened up, a Best Buy and Guitar Center would move in!

Maybe your wife should get a job with UPS????

[N. Abstentia]

Hey now there's an idea :)

Actually we have a big UPS hub here as well!

[kexodusc]

Hey now there's an idea :)

Actually we have a big UPS hub here as well!

Great company to work for...let me know how that conversation goes...:ihih:

[recoveryone]

Well...like I said....nowhere to buy a CD. If you can go to your local car wash and buy me any Porcupine Tree CD, I'll pay you $2000 for it.

Restrictions apply.

You better had put the last little note (restriction apply) here in California you can find car washes that sell car audio all in one along with most other audio needs. So be very careful what you offer. But I must admit you live in a unique place not to have any of the above mention stores in your town. How do you ppl shop for clothing/appliances/computers/nic naks etc.......

And I'm sure I would find your beloved Porcupine Tree CD.... It may be bootleg but it will be there lol

[N. Abstentia]

California is void from the offer. It's good only in the USA.

[recoveryone]

California is void from the offer. It's good only in the USA.


LOL the Republic of California

[pixelthis]

Lossless doesnt "start" anywhere, its the accurate reproduction of data without throwing any away.
EVEN at 320 kbs you lose data, which is why I use lossless codecs like flac and ape,
but I wil probably havta get a laptop to play em in a car, unless I get a Volvo, whose
audio gear supports flac...
As for all of this "holding something tangible" stuff, that goes right out the window when you're riding down the road with your entire music collection at your fingertips.
And the alpine has NO provisions for Cd's, why should it?
At circuit they used to have a huge selection of "megachangers" (still great for storing you discs) but the last time I looked they had ONE model, I took a look at all of the digital media players and another at the changer and felt like I was looking at a dinosaur.
MY 30 gig creative has crashed, so I guess I'll have to reload my collection off of my harddrive again, onto a new player, hopefully something that will play lossless.
I have an old belt drive technics turntable, BTW, and just scored a direct drive model
which plays my records quite well, so I do like some of the old ways...
I'll bet some of my records are older than some on this board, btw

[PeruvianSkies]

Lossless doesnt "start" anywhere, its the accurate reproduction of data without throwing any away.
EVEN at 320 kbs you lose data, which is why I use lossless codecs like flac and ape,
but I wil probably havta get a laptop to play em in a car, unless I get a Volvo, whose
audio gear supports flac...
As for all of this "holding something tangible" stuff, that goes right out the window when you're riding down the road with your entire music collection at your fingertips.
And the alpine has NO provisions for Cd's, why should it?
At circuit they used to have a huge selection of "megachangers" (still great for storing you discs) but the last time I looked they had ONE model, I took a look at all of the digital media players and another at the changer and felt like I was looking at a dinosaur.
MY 30 gig creative has crashed, so I guess I'll have to reload my collection off of my harddrive again, onto a new player, hopefully something that will play lossless.
I have an old belt drive technics turntable, BTW, and just scored a direct drive model
which plays my records quite well, so I do like some of the old ways...
I'll bet some of my records are older than some on this board, btw

btw thanks for sharing btw.

[noddin0ff]

http://www.applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/zune-marketplaces-absurd-pricing-scheme/

Ha! I was going to run down the math for the resident Microserf fan boy who prefers to rent his music, but I see somebody has already done it.

More and more, I buy CD's and rip them once, then never touch them. Into the closet they go, where they provide a cumbersome form of backup (redundant, I might add since I back up my hard drive based library). I think I’ll eventually miss the days where album art was a bigger deal. I hardly look at the jackets anymore.

With CD's running around $15, I might go for a few tracks via iTMS newer DRM-free 256kbps ACC format but, for the most part, the CD's not dead until I can buy lossless..or until SACD can be ripped.

[recoveryone]

back on point of this thread, I feel there is still life in disk in car audio. Alpine is just jumping on the bandwagon with others. VW, I think was first with the plug-in adapter, But a changer that is MP3/APE/FLAC compatible. That would be a lot of music with no worry of HardDrive/Flash mem failure and no battery issues. http://www.speedsound.com/product.asp?specific=jormqrr0

The real issues is being able to take your music wherever you go is the thing today, From home- to- the car- on the job/school and back home again on one device.

[noddin0ff]

back on point of this thread, I feel there is still life in disk in car audio. Alpine is just jumping on the bandwagon with others. VW, I think was first with the plug-in adapter, But a changer that is MP3/APE/FLAC compatible. That would be a lot of music with no worry of HardDrive/Flash mem failure and no battery issues. http://www.speedsound.com/product.asp?specific=jormqrr0

The real issues is being able to take your music wherever you go is the thing today, From home- to- the car- on the job/school and back home again on one device.

Oh, yeah...cars. I still have a cassette player. The cassette is dead, long live the cassette!

[Mr Peabody]

When I was wanting some way to take my own music with me on the commute, I sure wish I hadn't offloaded my cassette deck and a large box of high quality tape to re-use. I wonder if you can even find a cassette walkman of any quality? As you know I just bought my first DAP, but I'd bet a good analog recording on a high bias cassette would kick the crap out of a mp3 for sound quality.

I need to find this Alpine unit to see how it works. The mp3 thing still seems like a lot of work to me. I guess recording tracks to a cassette took time as well but I enjoyed it more.

[pixelthis]

MP3 is okay just use a 320 kbh bitrate, and apple has a program that allows you to load your cd's, stick one in then another..

It took awhile to load mp3s onto my creative nomad, but well worth it.
As for cassettes, why bother? They never were high fidelity, I had a nad deck that produced pretty good stuff but that was the only choice, I can't understand why
anybody would mess with a basically dead format.
You know, besides improved sound the best thing about CD's over cassette was the random access features, by the time I found a tune on a cassette I was already where I was going

[Mr Peabody]

I heard today that there is a recent article in Rolling Stone that either is predicting or pronouncing the doom of big record companies. Is it that people are downloading so much or just a lack of quality new albums? RS was stating that the record companies are stupid and they made a big mistake the way they dealt with Napster. They essentially put them out of business and downloaders just went to other share sites. RS says they should have worked out a deal where Napster charged and split the profits with the record companies. I'll have to hunt the article down. I got the impression that RS may also be thinking the disc is dieing.

I don't think the disc will die all they way. I wonder if some day it will be a nitch though like the high quality vinyl that is being pressed or the hand full of new SACD's.

I'm talking about cassettes I make myself on high bias tape using high quality hi fi gear. I wouldn't embrace cassettes now but I would be if I had kept my player and tapes, only for using in a walkman commuting. It's impossible to compare now but as my memory serves the cassettes are much more dynamic than the mp3. To me mp3's just sound compressed, like everything is close together and no air around the instruments. I'm going to find a cable and run my DAP into my home stereo to see if it's as bad as I think.

[pixelthis]

I heard today that there is a recent article in Rolling Stone that either is predicting or pronouncing the doom of big record companies. Is it that people are downloading so much or just a lack of quality new albums? RS was stating that the record companies are stupid and they made a big mistake the way they dealt with Napster. They essentially put them out of business and downloaders just went to other share sites. RS says they should have worked out a deal where Napster charged and split the profits with the record companies. I'll have to hunt the article down. I got the impression that RS may also be thinking the disc is dieing.

I don't think the disc will die all they way. I wonder if some day it will be a nitch though like the high quality vinyl that is being pressed or the hand full of new SACD's.

I'm talking about cassettes I make myself on high bias tape using high quality hi fi gear. I wouldn't embrace cassettes now but I would be if I had kept my player and tapes, only for using in a walkman commuting. It's impossible to compare now but as my memory serves the cassettes are much more dynamic than the mp3. To me mp3's just sound compressed, like everything is close together and no air around the instruments. I'm going to find a cable and run my DAP into my home stereo to see if it's as bad as I think.


From your list of gear I see you are an old audiophile dinosaur like myself.
We arent really talking about home audio are we? You can always spin platters
and listen to cds in the house, but on the road hi-fi has never really been possible, not really.
Go to flac sites (google flac), this is a lossless format that compresses files (songs)
without throwing anything away. MP3 was really first gen anyway, there is atrac, Sonys
format that they use for mini-disc, had one of these and they sound quite good, WMA,
microsofts way of compression, and MLP (meridian lossless packing) that I havent messed with too much.
As for mp3s sounding "compressed" thats because they ARE compressed, it irritates
friends when I can tell the difference between CD'S and mp3s, and mostly between mp3s
with a bitrate of 128k vs 320k (what I prefer).
And no the disc wont die completely, I still have a turntable, but I was just saying we
are undergoing a fundamental way of dealing with information, there hasnt been a revolution this big since the printing press.
And big record companies are going under and good riddance, their entire business
model was ripping off the talent that they depended on, the only way most musicans
make money is on their concerts, most never get as big as bowie, who sold BONDS
based on future sales of his albums (made 80 million) or britney spears who was 150 mill
before she married kfed, most musicans wound up broke.
BUT I have had to lessen my audiophile dreams somewhat, not rich enough to afford both
HT and HI-FI, but My system is still quite enjoyable, especially evan linns on
SACD