altec lansing 510s and receiver question

[adam mcd]

ok so im about to purchase my first sound system, and all in one fell swoop. why? because i work at circuit city and get half off or more of denon, onkyo, polk audio, kef, etc etc the list goes on. i have a few quick questions about a certain pair of speakers i get a good deal on: the altec lansing 510S ( http://www.alteclansing.com/product_details.asp?pID=510S ). ive looked up and down for these to audition but to no avail. i was wondering if anyone has heard these speakers and have something to say about them. i remember the altec valencia and wish i could have one of those but im in no fiscal state to be collecting vintage equipment just yet; just a college kid trying to build up a nice audio system to take with him for life. fyi: ive been spoiled by my father's circa 1973 or so speakerlab super 7's my whole life, paired to a harmon kardon. that alone will be hard to match or beat.

if you guys have any opinions about denon vs onkyo, please add. these are the only receivers i get a good discount on. everyone always says denon sounds warm and as much as i would like that, every semi-audition i do has denon sounding bright, but i havent done a real audition yet (same speakers to two diff receivers). the onkyo in any setup, even with subpar speakers, sounds amazing and handles music like a champ. thinking of denon 987 vs onkyo 674 (once again 'retail price' is not an issue).

oh and im probably 95% music (no subwoofer, i think they sound sloppy) and 5% movies. i also love the dts neo 6 music surround sound mode. this seems like an awesome forum and thx for the help.

[GMichael]

I have not heard these Altec speakers. But, by the specs, they look to need a bit of juice to run to their fullest. I would suggest that you pick a receiver that has pre-outs so that you can add an external amp. You will need the extra horsepower.
As far as the Denons being warm and the Onkyo's being bright? It really depends on how they are set up. Either one could be made to sound like the other with a little tweeking. Both are good brands. But very few receivers will bring out the full potential of the speakers you have picked out.

[basite]

a bit of juice? 84 db sensetivity...
make that quite alot of juice. 200 watt power handling, 84 db sensetivity, I'd say 100-150 watt to get them running, about 300 watt to be enjoyable, and twice that to make them sing. Run that off a denon (or other similar brands) HT receiver, and you'll fry it.

there are some solutions though. getting a poweramp + a preamp would be it, because you could get a more powerful amp then.
now, things that deliver power:
check out parasound, their poweramps should be able to run it. also check out rotel, adcom, and others.
for pre's: again, parasound, or rotel, if you can, you could get a used one and get a higher end one.

Good luck & happy hunting :)
Bert.

[basite]

and for the denon sounding warm. The denon sounds neutral, at least, it should when you give them speakers they can handle, otherwise they will (like all other amps that are being clipped) sound bright.
the only receivers that I can think of that will be able to power them and to get the full potential out of your speakers, are Mcintosh, and weigh & cost about the same as a small car :)

[GMichael]

I suggested the receiver with pre-pros instead of a pre-amp because of the cost difference. A good pre-pro could run into some serious doe-ray-me. And not too many are sold at CC. I think the exact number is 0 of them. He'll still have to get an amp, but a good Adcom can be had for cheap off of Ebay. He could upgrade to the pre-pro after he's done with college. Then the receiver could still be used as a stand alone, 2nd system, in another room.

[basite]

that, indeed also is a very good solution :)
just remember to get a poweramp too, the receiver alone won't be able to power them.

[GMichael]

that, indeed also is a very good solution :)
just remember to get a poweramp too, the receiver alone won't be able to power them.

Ditto, unless you like fried receiver for dinner.

[adam mcd]

hey thanks for the heads up, saved me some time + money + burnt electronic smell lol. damn, though. those are the only front pairs that can pump out bass that i get a decent discount on. i guess ill have to go the subwoofer route to get my lows. now im considering polk or kefs all around. i love that dual 10'' kef subwoofer.

quick question: i dont know if anyone off hand has info about the speakerlab super7s, but i think the scenario with these altecs is the same problem he had. whenever he hooked up them up to any receiver, besides his sansui 9090 he originally paired with it and the harman kardon he has now, they blew up. all i know is theyre 4ohm an have a range of 20hz-20khz. he doesnt use an amp or preamp. does this mean that these altecs are more finnicky than the super7s? ill try to find out more info from speakerlab in the coming days

[markw]

quick question: i dont know if anyone off hand has info about the speakerlab super7s, but i think the scenario with these altecs is the same problem he had. whenever he hooked up them up to any receiver, besides his sansui 9090 he originally paired with it and the harman kardon he has now, they blew up. all i know is theyre 4ohm an have a range of 20hz-20khz. he doesnt use an amp or preamp. does this mean that these altecs are more finnicky than the super7s? ill try to find out more info from speakerlab in the coming days1) Most receivers don't like low impedance speakers to begin with, particularly when driven to high levels.

1.5) Most speaker ratings are "nominal" impedance, which means it can dip lower (sometimes much lower) than that on occasion. ...and they usually do.

2) Add low efficiency to the mix and you can almost guarantee amp problems. Have sticks and marshmallows handy.

3) Since you a;ready know that most HT receivers blow out when TRYING to drive them to adequate levels, you should take that as a not-so-subtle hint. They need a big external power amp that can pump out lotsa watts into a low impedance load.

4) That Sansui 9090 is one big mofo vintage two channel receiver and can handle quite a lot of abuse, which includes low-efficicy, low impedance speakers. They don't make HT receivers like that. To equal it's performance, you're talking external power amps.

[basite]

4) That Sansui 9090 is one big mofo vintage two channel receiver and can handle quite a lot of abuse, which includes low-efficicy, low impedance speakers. They don't make HT receivers like that. To equal it's performance, you're talking external power amps.

agreed with all the points, and just to add: the sansui 9090 is kind of a legend (amongst some others). It will outperform almost all receivers built today, exept for some ultra high end pieces. But you say that 'you aren't in the fiscal position to be collecting vintage equipment', I just can't possebly agree with that. there are lots of things on garage sales for like $50 or so, that are decent & will beat alot of speakers. Sure, the altecs will be different, but there are still other speakers that are somewhat easier to drive you know...
look at B&W, Monitor audio, Kef, Paradigm, Klipsch, ...
& btw, the altecs you're looking at are acoustic suspension, so they'll put out less bass than a ported design (IN COMPARISON). add to that that altec once was a company that only made high performance/high quality speakers, and now they 'specialize' in pc stuff, think about that before you buy speakers.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[GMichael]

Give me a minute and I'll poke through CC's website to see if I can find a suggestion for you.
On a side note, Altec Lancing is one of the sponsors for the music festival going on in my town this weekend.
Check out the link: http://www.milfordmusic.org/

[GMichael]

Not sure of your price range, but here goes my shot at this. You said music 95% but some HT. I like this Onkyo http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Specifications-of-Onkyo-7-1-Channel-Home-Theater-Receiver-Black-TX-SR674/sem/rpsm/oid/157067/rpem/ccd/productDetailSpecification.do#tabs

And have a listen to these if you can. http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Boston-Acoustics-Tower-Speaker-Black-VR2/sem/rpsm/oid/159494/catOid/-12950/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Sub: http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Boston-Acoustics-12-Subwoofer-XB6/sem/rpsm/oid/159480/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Or this one is much better if you have the budget: http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Velodyne-8-Powered-Subwoofer-MINIVEE/sem/rpsm/oid/132973/catOid/-16883/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Surround speakers: http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Boston-Acoustics-Bookshelf-Speakers-CR67B/sem/rpsm/oid/159491/catOid/-12950/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Center channel: http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Boston-Acoustics-Center-Channel-Speaker-CRC7B/sem/rpsm/oid/159493/catOid/-16882/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

These are just some of the options that I like at CC. They aren't top of the line, but would still sound great.

[adam mcd]

thanks for the suggestions. you were spot on with my original receiver in mind, that onkyo. my discounts are actually through the manufacturers themselves, so theres a lot of products not sold by circuit city that i still get discounts on. i was hesitant to get those altecs simply because they only make small PC speakers, like you said. now that ive budgeted those out, i can fit in some high end speakers, all around, from polk, and spend a few more on a better receiver. i dont know if im suppoused to give this info out but im getting about 60% off this whole setup.

http://onkyousa.com/model.cfm?class=Receiver&m=TX-SR805&p=i (when it comes out)

powering:

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rti12 fronts
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rti6/ surround
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/csi5/ center
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/psw505/ subwoofer (but might look into a kef or boston sub)

i thought about rti12 vs rti10 but the difference is only a few hundred dollars to me. i gotta go polks > boston. i love the sound of polks being driven by an onkyo. kefs all around also appealed to me, but on a more aestheic and higher mid-range scale, the latter id get annoyed with soon. ive literally driven a few coworkers nuts talking about audio, as im the only audio nut there.

[basite]

that should be a very good setup in that budget (especially considering that you'll get 60% off :) )

I do wanna say that the dayton & SVS subs are really good too :)

Get them spinning,
& let us know how they sound,
Bert.

[GMichael]

Looks like a great system. I predict many happy hours of listening bliss. Let us know how it sounds once you have it all up and running.

As Bert Said, this would be a better sub if you can squeeze it in. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-764
I had the matching 12" sub for my Infinity's but upgraded to this monster a few months ago. It's a beast that would eat most subs for breakfast. It's a sealed unit, so it has a very tight sound. Huge upgrade IMO.

[adam mcd]

yea itll be a few months down the line but ill def update everyone, take a few pics, etc.

have you guys heard kef's HTB2 subwoofer? front-firing 10 inch subwoofer and oh god is it clean bass. looks like a fashion statement but certainly gets the job done. oh man 15 inches, its a beast. ive been looking into building my subwoofer. guess i should say ill be living in an apartment for a few years but thats not gonna stop me from bringing forth the legion of boom to whatever complex im staying at.

[blackraven]

For $600 you can get an outlaw high current 2ch stereo receiver that will run those speakers with out difficulty. www.outlawaudio.com Its rated at 160wpc at 4ohm and 100wpc at 8ohm but outlaw under rates their power and tests have shown it to be 125wpc at 8ohm, 190wpc at 4ohm and 310wpc at 2ohm.. Those speakers are 6ohm so you will get about 140-160 wpc from that receiver. The higher end Denon receivers 3000-4000 model series may be able to handle them. If you go with the outlaw you can use a cheaper AV receiver for HT use.
Harmon Kardon also makes a nice high current 2ch receiver the HK3485 thats 120wpc at 8ohms and 150wpc at 4ohms for about $450. but the outlaw is a better receiver IMO.

[GMichael]

yea itll be a few months down the line but ill def update everyone, take a few pics, etc.

have you guys heard kef's HTB2 subwoofer? front-firing 10 inch subwoofer and oh god is it clean bass. looks like a fashion statement but certainly gets the job done. oh man 15 inches, its a beast. ive been looking into building my subwoofer. guess i should say ill be living in an apartment for a few years but thats not gonna stop me from bringing forth the legion of boom to whatever complex im staying at.

I have seen the KEF's. Very cool looking. But I haven't heard them to be able to say yeah or nay.