Apocalypto Now...

[PeruvianSkies]

Recently watched this film after long hesitation with the recent DVD release and I was incredibly impressed with this film and thought I would write up a review for the film/DVD and discuss why I think it's one of the better films to come out in a long long time....

I kept myself isolated from this film and tried to know as little about it as possible prior to viewing it. I wanted to go in to this film with neutral feelings and I think I was quite successful, which also might be one reason I thoroughly enjoyed this film. My initial impression from the beginning was...great mood, excellent story setup, and I was very impressed with Mel Gibson's directing early on. In the first few minutes of the film there are a few things that happen that begin to foreshadow what is to follow, but at the same time we are introduced to the key characters in a very non-traditional form. What I mean by this is that the people who you might expect to become the central characters are not necessarily. I also give Gibson incredibly props for making this film in the Native tongue, instead of in English, which gives the film a great amount of authenticity, plus the actors helped with that aspect as well.

It's amazing that people will watch a film like this with subtitles, but refuse to get into more Foreign films. Anyway, the pace of the film is perfect and the tone begins to change, but is done so with incredibly patience and the execution of some of the scenes in the first half hour are done in such a way that we (the viewer) are treated as a third party viewer. We watch almost as if we are within the scene. The 1.85 X 1 flat aspect ratio (which Gibson typically uses 2.35 X 1 scope for his films) is filled with lush greens and incredible depth. Dean Semler's Cinematography is first-rate with superb use of various lenses and such to create the right amount of on-screen action and tight shots to give a greater sense of tension. The DVD looks really good too, there are many scenes with a large variety of greens and the detail of each hue is rendered quite well. Later in the film we are exposed to a variety of really rare colors on film, again the DVD holds up very true. Colors like Turquoise for example.

What I particulary love about this film as well is that it never explains anything. You might think ...what? What does that mean? Well, I personally hate movies that feel the need to explain everything to use like we are in first grade. I partcularly love that we are just taken on a journey through a certain incident in the film (I am not going to spoil anything) and during that time very little is explained. We figure things out just as the character(s) do. We are not given any more information than they are. Because of this, the film has a greater sense of impact because we become more in-tune with the characters perception and feeling. Gibson again executes this very well keeping things quite neutral. Some people might be turned off by this aspect, but I found it very fresh and rewarding.

Why do I feel that this film is one of the better films that has come out in a long time? Well, as I have already mentioned this film (while it didn't reinvent the wheel) it did manage to try some fresher ways of establishing characters & plot. The intensity of the film is paced very well with loads of heartpounding scenes. We are also treated the entire time as an observer to the story and are allowed to venture into the lives of the people involved, which is also quite effective as well. There are few movies these days that want us to be involved, rather they want us to just sit back and veg out. It's like we are suppose to shut off our minds and just be 'entertained' for 2 hours. APOCALYPTO doesn't give us that luxury and that's a great thing in my opinion. This is not a film to be 'entertained' by. This isn't necessarily a 'thinking' type of movie either, but it's just a well-oiled narrative with a great sense of depth and emotional power.

Hopefully everyone else who has seen this film found it as enjoyable as I did. The DVD also has a DTS 5.1 sound mix that is quite engaging as well. There are a few scenes with some very prominant low LFE that will shake you to the core. I encourage those who have not seen this film to check it out and to not really have an opinion about it prior to seeing it. You also need to be able to engage the film and not just sit back and expect the film to do all the work. I feel that this is the type of film that needs some patience to really let it settle in and once you are hooked it's a great ride.

[kexodusc]

Hmmm...maybe I'll check it out this week...

[Troy]

I saw it in the theater and really enjoyed it too.

I learned a long time ago to separate a movie (or music, books, photography, painting etc.) from the artists that make it. If I let my personal opinion of the artist color my feelings for the piece I'd never be able to enjoy most art because most artists are, in fact, major league a$$holes. So I just ignore the Mel Gibson factor.

This is really the kind of thing that Gibson does best: shockingly brutal historical epics. Yeah, not much depth or historical signifigance to the story compared to his other films. However, as straight entertainment, it's extremely engrosing and exciting. It's a world unlike anything you've ever seen before.

Yes, the parallels to our modern society are handled in an all to obvious way, however true they are.

The human sacrifice sequence with the heads bouncing down the stairs was unforgettable and unlike anything ever put on film. Ugly, epic and utterly alien.

Apocalypto is a one-of-a-kind movie, for better or worse.

[kexodusc]

Hmmm, that's two guys with movie opinions I've come to respect endorsing this...
I've upgraded to definitely will check out this week...

[SlumpBuster]

I too greatly enjoyed Apocalypto, but have some reservations. There is a truly great director lurking somewhere inside Mel Gibson, and someday he will make a benchmark movie. Sure Gibson is controversial and his movies are controversial, but that controversy stems from two factors that will make him a truly great director over the next two decades: his lack of internal censor and his dedication to the themes of fatherhood and paternalism.

I love Gibsons movies for the same reason I love Luc Besson's movies: Because they both make movies that could pass for the work of a 12 year old boy. Besson does so because he wants to make movies from the viewpoint of a 12 year old boy. Gibson does it because he's bats nuts bonkers and doesn't think before saying/writing/filming. Many great artists teater between sanity and brilliance, so I'm not faulting Gibson for being far out.

Passion of the Christ as a film was very good, imho. Gibson was wholly successful in writing and filming the story on his own terms. Yes, it is an anti-semetic movie, but that's what a passion play is. Yes, Gibson has some very anti-semetic tendencies. But, Gibson's anti-semitism plays like that of a 12 year old boys. Unformed, uninformed, denied underpressure, but sure in its certainty. Gibson is the most common form of bigot, he is sure who he hates, because his father told him so. Like all good art, The Passion confused, incited, titilated, angered, and just plain got people talking.

Which leads me to his second quality. He has a theme that he keeps returning to, both as an actor and a director: fatherhood. People kept saying Apacalypto was really just a chase movie. Yes, but it was also a movie about fatherhood and the sacrifices made the archetypical father figures. The same themes are found in The Passion (God sacrificing his only son) and Signs (Graham and Merrill taking on an entire alien invasion to protect two children). I think the brutality in his movies, particularly in Apocalypto, do serve a literary function. The brutality says "Look at the horrors I will witness and endure to save and protect you, my family." This is a theme that is bottomless in its potential for storytelling and timeless in its poignency.

Here is my one problem with Apocalypto: SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!! SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






























Did we really have to have some white guys show up at the end? This is a complaint I've made before, which I know Peru has taken exception with before. But why take the time and effort to make the movie so authentic, use the native language, only to ultimately make it Eurocentric at the end. What did the ending mean? Was it the reason the whole story was being told? I thought this character was important because of his trial and tribulations to protect his family, not because he was there when some Euros showed up. Ultimately it confuses and muddles what Gibson is trying to say. Was it a hint at at big, bigger, biggest fish (little fish swallowed by Mayan rulers, only to be swallowed by invading Euros)? I don't know. I thought this was a movie about a dad and a chase, at least until the last 10 minutes.

Peru you are right about one of the great qualities of the movie being that it unfolds for the viewer as it unfolds for the character, except for that last scene. Suddenly and jarringly, the movie calls upon the viewer to recollect all kinds of historical implications. It is a scene that only has any relevence and currency because of what we came to the theater with. Hopefully, Gibson will grow more confident in his simple and concise storytelling ability to cut off any extraneous appendages like that in the future.

[Troy]

I too greatly enjoyed Apocalypto, but have some reservations. There is a truly great director lurking somewhere inside Mel Gibson, and someday he will make a benchmark movie. Sure Gibson is controversial and his movies are controversial, but that controversy stems from two factors that will make him a truly great director over the next two decades: his lack of internal censor and his dedication to the themes of fatherhood and paternalism.

For me it's more of a FAMILY theme than just fatherhood. The role of family has taken the center of virtually every one of his films, even the ones where he's only an actor.

I'm just not sure that Gibson will be allowed the reins to that degree ever again. The guy is POISON in Hollywood. A true pariah.


Did we really have to have some white guys show up at the end? This is a complaint I've made before, which I know Peru has taken exception with before. But why take the time and effort to make the movie so authentic, use the native language, only to ultimately make it Eurocentric at the end. What did the ending mean?

The arrival of the Spaniards showed that the entire highly advanced, pre-apocalyptic, ultra-decadent culture (obviously meant to represent ours in many ways) was about to be rubbed out by the coming of the white Euro-trash. It was sort of the coup de grace after the crop failures. The whole point of the film was to show that society is fragile. Even the seemingly toughest cultures can disappear overnight. I think your 3 fish analogy is touching on the fringe of this aspect of the story.


I don't know. I thought this was a movie about a dad and a chase, at least until the last 10 minutes.

No, I think the story goes much deeper than that. The chase/rescue aspect was only one small facet of all the different concepts the film bought to the table.

[SlumpBuster]

I'm just not sure that Gibson will be allowed the reins to that degree ever again. The guy is POISON in Hollywood. A true pariah.[QUOTE]

The success of The Passion ensured that Gibson can make whatever movie he wants whenever he wants. Same reason we have to suffer through insufferable Gus Van Sant movies like Elephant and Last Days, because Good Will Hunting was so big.



[QUOTE=Troy]The arrival of the Spaniards showed that the entire highly advanced, pre-apocalyptic, ultra-decadent culture (obviously meant to represent ours in many ways) was about to be rubbed out by the coming of the white Euro-trash. It was sort of the coup de grace after the crop failures. The whole point of the film was to show that society is fragile. Even the seemingly toughest cultures can disappear overnight. I think your 3 fish analogy is touching on the fringe of this aspect of the story.[QUOTE]

Yeah, I was kinda being rhetorical. I knew what Gibson was getting at. I just think it was too much.



[QUOTE=Troy]No, I think the story goes much deeper than that. The chase/rescue aspect was only one small facet of all the different concepts the film bought to the table.
Again, kinda being rhetorical. I know there were multiple facets, but I thought the one with the most clarity was the family rescue. The ideas that the West is decadent and that America in particular is fragile have been being rehashed by every sophmore college kid that ever took a 200 level Roman history class for the last 50 years. Tired stuff.

[nightflier]

Anyone have any opinions on the hi-def transfer? Is it worth the extra money?

[Troy]

The success of The Passion ensured that Gibson can make whatever movie he wants whenever he wants. Same reason we have to suffer through insufferable Gus Van Sant movies like Elephant and Last Days, because Good Will Hunting was so big.

But the well documented "difficult shoot", budget overruns and ultimate failure of Apocalypto at the box office and THEN the heavily publicized DUI and subsequent anti-semetic rant have REALLY hurt him. I really think that Hollywood has simply had enough of his BS. I'm just not sure that he will find the financial backing to do the kinds of big-scale movies he wants to do.



Again, kinda being rhetorical. I know there were multiple facets, but I thought the one with the most clarity was the family rescue. The ideas that the West is decadent and that America in particular is fragile have been being rehashed by every sophmore college kid that ever took a 200 level Roman history class for the last 50 years. Tired stuff.

I could kind of see your point, but I also think that this is a real hot button topic in todays world between religious predictions of the coming Apocalypse and science proving it out by it's acknowledgement and explanation of global warming and the death of so much of the planet's species. It's a relevant topic, certainly MUCH moreso than any superhero, pirate or caper flick could ever hope to be.

[PeruvianSkies]

Anyone have any opinions on the hi-def transfer? Is it worth the extra money?

My friend wrote a review for it here:

http://www.fulvuedrive-in.com/review/5448/Apocalypto+(Blu-ray+++DVD-Video)+++Lost+King+Of+The+Maya+(WGBH+DVD-Video+set)

[PeruvianSkies]

SPOILER ALERT....................

Did we really have to have some white guys show up at the end? This is a complaint I've made before, which I know Peru has taken exception with before. But why take the time and effort to make the movie so authentic, use the native language, only to ultimately make it Eurocentric at the end. What did the ending mean? Was it the reason the whole story was being told? I thought this character was important because of his trial and tribulations to protect his family, not because he was there when some Euros showed up. Ultimately it confuses and muddles what Gibson is trying to say. Was it a hint at at big, bigger, biggest fish (little fish swallowed by Mayan rulers, only to be swallowed by invading Euros)? I don't know. I thought this was a movie about a dad and a chase, at least until the last 10 minutes.

Peru you are right about one of the great qualities of the movie being that it unfolds for the viewer as it unfolds for the character, except for that last scene. Suddenly and jarringly, the movie calls upon the viewer to recollect all kinds of historical implications. It is a scene that only has any relevence and currency because of what we came to the theater with. Hopefully, Gibson will grow more confident in his simple and concise storytelling ability to cut off any extraneous appendages like that in the future.
__________________

I felt the same way upon seeing the ending scene and I thought about it in two ways. First, I wish that we only saw the ships arriving the first time we see them. The moment when Jaguar Paw is nearly killed, but then the ships arive is interesting in that two worlds are colliding and they don't even realize it yet. I wish that we didn't see anything after this point aside from Jaguar Paw rescuing his family, but again we see that they are checking out the ships. I suppose what I partcularly enjoyed about the first time that we see the ships is that History is being made, yet it is being thrown into the background of a much smaller story. So at this juncture we have a historically significant moment that abruptly stops what is (seemingly) small potatoes when comparing side by side. Yet, we the viewer, have just built alot of significance in our character and we understand the stakes: his family.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I skipped right to the last post, and when PS announced "Spoiler alert", I scrolled down as fast as I could. I'll stop back after I rent the movie...

Man! That was close! :eek:

[PeruvianSkies]

I skipped right to the last post, and when PS announced "Spoiler alert", I scrolled down as fast as I could. I'll stop back after I rent the movie...

Man! That was close! :eek:

yeah Rich...you don't wanna ruin this one. It woulda been like knowing what happened to the Titanic before watching the film. Total spoiler.

[Worf101]

I thought Apocalypto was a good if not great film. The true mark of a movie for me is if I'm totally transported by that film to another world or reality. If I "buy into it" it's usually a film I'll treasure forever. I bought Apocalypto from the start. I found it engagin, insightful, and it kept me on the edge of my seat from start to finish. Gibson may be a nut, but he's a great film maker. If I can separate D.W. Griffith from his "art" and even the "art" of his story telling from the rampant racism in his stories, then I can cut Mel a little slack as well.

As for Mel being "finished" in Hollywood. You're never finished there, if you can make movies that make money.

Da Worfster

[SlumpBuster]

Yeah, Mel isn't finished by a long shot. According to Box Office Mojo, Apocalypto made money. $40mil to make, generous estimate of $40mil to market, grossed $120mil worldwide. The Passion made him a billionaire. He doesn't need financiers.

As to his other foibles (generous term for racism rotting you from the inside out :D), as long as he makes money people will look the other way. After all, Linday Lohan keeps getting work. Paris Hilton gets dorked on camera while calling people the "N" word, she gets work. Phil Spector had to kill someone and stop making hit records for anyone to notice he was nuts. The entertainment industry is not know for jetisoning people because they are drunk bigots.

[PeruvianSkies]

I'd like to see what Mel Gibson could do with a film on Paul Revere/American Revolution. That would make for some great cinema.

[Worf101]

Phil Spector had to kill someone and stop making hit records for anyone to notice he was nuts. The entertainment industry is not know for jetisoning people because they are drunk bigots.

LOL, I'm dyin' here. I couldn't put it any better myself. I remember seeing an interview with The Ramones and here's these protopunks going completely out of character when talking about how much they feared Spector. How he went over the same chord day in and day out with a magnum in his hands. The fear that was still evident in their faces. Wow...

Da Worfster

[Rich-n-Texas]

The word I usually use to describe movies such as this one is... intense, but this time that word doesn't even come close. After reading this thread's first few posts (and successfully avoiding the rest), I had pretty high expectations and I certainly wasn't disappointed. I caught myself more than once flexing muscles and leaning this way and that in my chair. Thoroughly engrossed and never once did my attention drift. I remember cursing Zero Wolf at least three times and I cheered as if I was at a hockey game when he bought the farm. I looked at the clock on the VCR and thought, hmmm... I sure hope everything gets wrapped up because I don't want to have to wait for "the sequel", and sure enough... no loose ends. For me the movie had the proper ending, even though I didn't want it to end. I felt it was the perfect anti-climax for a story that gave you a glimpse into the struggles of the Mian (sp?) people whose destiny visually marked by the coming of the white man. This movie is probably going on my ...to own list. :thumbsup:

[Worf101]

The word I usually use to describe movies such as this one is... intense, but this time that word doesn't even come close. After reading this thread's first few posts (and successfully avoiding the rest), I had pretty high expectations and I certainly wasn't disappointed. I caught myself more than once flexing muscles and leaning this way and that in my chair. Thoroughly engrossed and never once did my attention drift. I remember cursing Zero Wolf at least three times and I cheered as if I was at a hockey game when he bought the farm. I looked at the clock on the VCR and thought, hmmm... I sure hope everything gets wrapped up because I don't want to have to wait for "the sequel", and sure enough... no loose ends. For me the movie had the proper ending, even though I didn't want it to end. I felt it was the perfect anti-climax for a story that gave you a glimpse into the struggles of the Mian (sp?) people whose destiny visually marked by the coming of the white man. This movie is probably going on my ...to own list. :thumbsup:
Great review. Couldn't put it any better myself. Thanks for sharing and welcome to the club man.

Da Worfster

[PeruvianSkies]

Great review. Couldn't put it any better myself. Thanks for sharing and welcome to the club man.

Da Worfster

Agreed. Intense is a super description or even if it doesn't come close, it still will suffice. I felt exactly the same. I want movies to move me...make me feel something. Excitement, sadness, joy, terror, whatever. This movie has some engaging moments that are far too infrequent in filmmaking today. I am mindful of the intensity of the beheading ritual scene....talk about intense. Now, what I would like to point out at this moment is that Mel Gibson deserves credit because of some fine directing during this scene. This could have been handled a variety of ways, but what I would like to do is dissect this scene and simply give evidence for it's greatness...

First, we are taken with the slaves through their journey into the courtyard with some excellent camerawork to really make us feel that we are experiencing these surroundings just like our characters are. Gibson uses this build-up with many cuts of different things happening....people dancing, people laughing, various rituals are taken place. The quick cuts build a sense of mystery and momentum as our slaves witness these things. We are observing them with intrigue just the same.

Then, the horror begins to set in as we see from a distance a ball rolling down a large flight of steps...and within seconds realize it's a human head. That horror quickly turns to shock as we begin to understand that these people are celebrating the heads rolling down the steps and now we are gathering some key information about this culture. Again, our characters are shown as we cut back and forth building more and more tension and now their faces are struck with panic as they begin to accend to the top of the ceremonial platform where the beheading takes place.

Gibson never gives us a moment to breathe here though as we again see some more tumbling heads, this time from diffferent angles. Great use of editing, pacing, and again...the camerawork is superb. Once they reach the top Gibson quickly captures the mood by cutting back and forth between some of the key players on the top of this platform. We gather that this ceremonial event is very spirtual and there appears to be an order to all this madness. Without knowing exactly what they are saying or doing, we piece together that the slaves are part of the ceremony and this has been going on for a long time, quickly think back to the entrance to the ceremony when they went through the caves and saw drawings on the wall that showed slaves being beheaded in similar fashion.

At this point in the film we do not really have a 'main' character, although Jaguar Paw has been fairly centralized, but so have a few of the others. Timing here is crucial to the intensity though as the High Priest quickly chooses one of the slaves from the front of the line. Without dragging out the scene Gibson enables the viewer to have a sense of panic as this happens in such a fury that we almost can't believe our eyes as the first victim is first stabbed, then his heart ripped out, then beheaded. Ok, now we are like..."what the F". The level of panic is now shown on the rest of the slaves as they all try to back away or appear to be towards the end of the line...they don't want to be picked next...can ya blame em?

Now we have our next victim lined up...uh oh. Again, done very quickly with just a few cuts and this time, to make things a little more captivating, Gibson chooses to shoot a moment of the scene from the perspective of the slave as the camera tumbles and shakes around as if the camera were the guys head and we are disoriented as if our heads were being chopped off as well. INTENSE.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Thanks for the kind words but you're giving me waaay too much credit. After I finished watching the movie I rushed back to this conversation to read everyone's reviews and opinions, and all I could say was :eek6: , how am I going to follow this?

Yes, there were intense moments, but this is the first film I've watched since Sling Blade that had me yelling and squirming in my chair and which made time seem to stand still. I was completely enveloped.

PS, that sequence in the movie you speak of was another one that had me cursing and yelling, and I was so hoping that fat little kid would fall off the back of the platform! That entire scene was very significant to the whole experience of the movie.

Where I feel it fell short though was the way in which Jaguar Paw was saved from death. Unless there was some previous reference to lunar events to tie it in, I felt using an eclipse of the sun to distract the ceremony at that moment was too coincedental. IIRC they were making these sacrifices to a sun god right? Even still, it just let me down a bit, but that feeling was quickly dispatched as the movie progressed.

[PeruvianSkies]

Where I feel it fell short though was the way in which Jaguar Paw was saved from death. Unless there was some previous reference to lunar events to tie it in, I felt using an eclipse of the sun to distract the ceremony at that moment was too coincedental. IIRC they were making these sacrifices to a sun god right? Even still, it just let me down a bit, but that feeling was quickly dispatched as the movie progressed.

Actually what it reminded me of was the film RAPA NUI...essentially the story behind EASTER ISLAND (you know the people that cut down trees to make large bunnies and gave people chocolate ones each year to celebrate Jesus's death...j/k).

http://www.impawards.com/1994/posters/rapa_nui.jpg

And the deforestation apparently leads to the ice caps melting and towards the end of the film an iceberg is seen coming towards their tropic shores, which they all believe is the 'gods'. Anyway...

It reminded me of this because we are all watching this scene knowing full well that we are seeing a solar eclipse, but to them it's a religion sign of the God's, which happened at the right time for Jaguar Paw....I much preferred this than ...oh let's say him jumping up smashing the guys in their face and then sliding down the steps and racing out of there, despite the rediculous odds.

[Kam]

on a side note, i still think the original teaser trailer with gibson's cameo is one of the funniest things i've seen.

[thekid]

I know I am late to the party on this one but what the heck. We rented the movie last week based in part on some of the conversation here. I have to say I found the movie quite good. I guess I (like a lot of the public) did not give much thought to this film when it was released becasue it coincided with Mel's melt down. Cinematography was very good and the opening scene(s) really did a good job of establishing characters and the sense of community within the village. Overall the movie really kind of reminded me of some of your classice westerns. Hero's family/home destroyed by marauding villians and hero manages to escape and get his revenge. A classic simple story line and the ending was subtle and hinted at deeper meaning within out being didactic.

Appreciate everyone who used this forum to give the heads on this film.

[L.J.]

I finally saw this last night. I liked it alot. Moved at a very well pace and I was into it from beginning to end. Had me on the edge of my seat a few times. I'm gonna watch it again tonight with my wife.

Very nice picture and bass was hitting freakin' hard :thumbsup:

Anyways, very nice read guys and great reviews.

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Very good overall.

But when they throw that decapitated body down the pyramid, awful CGI. In movie full of great effects the filmmakers totally botched that...... Probably the least complex special effect in the movie! It was a bad effect in 1997.... no excuse for such sloppy work.

[PeruvianSkies]

Very good overall.

But when they throw that decapitated body down the pyramid, awful CGI. In movie full of great effects the filmmakers totally botched that...... Probably the least complex special effect in the movie! It was a bad effect in 1997.... no excuse for such sloppy work.

That didn't even phase me, but the ridiculously fake Panther on the other hand was too much for me, especially the baby. It looked like a robotic toy and was about as fake as the chirping bird on the tree at the end of BLUE VELVET, but at least that was suppose to be fake.

[Groundbeef]

Overall, I enjoyed the movie. I had a few niggling reservations about the execution of the film, but was willing to give Gibson artistic license.

Here are my major plot complaints.

1. As previously stated, the stay of execution was a bit "lame". The Myan people were pretty good about tracking solar events. It would be highly unlikely (read--impossible) that they wouldn't have known about the impending eclipse weeks before the occurance. In fact celebrations would have been planned, and much festivity would have been going on. Further that, eclipses take a bit more than 3 minutes to start and finish. But again, I give them some license.

2. The scene with the girl and small pox. Small pox wasn't introduced until the Spanish actually landed....so either they have been there, and just not discovered, or there was just a lapse in the research department for the film. There is a bit of a time disconnect on this point.

3. Damn, those Indians can run...I mean seriously, with one arrow through the side, and then later with another through the chest? He had some gumptionthat one did.

4. How long was his wife in that hole? You gotta figure it took him at least 2 days journey to get to the capital, perhaps even more, and then the time to get back. In the film it appeared that it was no more than 1 days forced march, then less than that to sprint back home.

I liked the ants as the stiches, that was a nice touch.

I think the introduction of the Spanish at the end was sort of a kick in the teeth of Jaguar Paw. He thinks that things are just going to start anew, but in reality, he was probably caught, enslaved, and his wife the same. The Spanish were none to keen of the multiple God worshipers.

But that being said, the film was very entertaining. I have been to some Myan ruins in Mexico, and they are really big, and interesting. I have read that in some ceremonies, they could go through 1000 slaves in sacrifice PER DAY. As my wife said, after the first 5 or so, what else can you expect? Wouldn't it get a little old?

[PeruvianSkies]

Overall, I enjoyed the movie. I had a few niggling reservations about the execution of the film, but was willing to give Gibson artistic license.

Here are my major plot complaints.

1. As previously stated, the stay of execution was a bit "lame". The Myan people were pretty good about tracking solar events. It would be highly unlikely (read--impossible) that they wouldn't have known about the impending eclipse weeks before the occurance. In fact celebrations would have been planned, and much festivity would have been going on. Further that, eclipses take a bit more than 3 minutes to start and finish. But again, I give them some license.

2. The scene with the girl and small pox. Small pox wasn't introduced until the Spanish actually landed....so either they have been there, and just not discovered, or there was just a lapse in the research department for the film. There is a bit of a time disconnect on this point.

3. Damn, those Indians can run...I mean seriously, with one arrow through the side, and then later with another through the chest? He had some gumptionthat one did.

4. How long was his wife in that hole? You gotta figure it took him at least 2 days journey to get to the capital, perhaps even more, and then the time to get back. In the film it appeared that it was no more than 1 days forced march, then less than that to sprint back home.

I liked the ants as the stiches, that was a nice touch.

I think the introduction of the Spanish at the end was sort of a kick in the teeth of Jaguar Paw. He thinks that things are just going to start anew, but in reality, he was probably caught, enslaved, and his wife the same. The Spanish were none to keen of the multiple God worshipers.

But that being said, the film was very entertaining. I have been to some Myan ruins in Mexico, and they are really big, and interesting. I have read that in some ceremonies, they could go through 1000 slaves in sacrifice PER DAY. As my wife said, after the first 5 or so, what else can you expect? Wouldn't it get a little old?

Are the Myans related to the Mayans at all? Being so picky about details of the film you would think you could at least give them proper spelling.

[Luvin Da Blues]

I guess I don't take my movies that seriously...but I found this film was highly entertaining.

[Groundbeef]

Are the Myans related to the Mayans at all? Being so picky about details of the film you would think you could at least give them proper spelling.

Ohhh, how pithy of you. Since you have no other comment other than a mis-spelling, I guess I am to assume you agreed with my points. Thanks!

[PeruvianSkies]

Ohhh, how pithy of you. Since you have no other comment other than a mis-spelling, I guess I am to assume you agreed with my points. Thanks!

Your comments are semi-valid and I would have to agree to some extent on them, although I don't claim to be a Historian or an expert on the Mayan civilization. This is a film, not a documentary, that takes certain liberties in order to make the film more accessible to some degree. If you want to sit there during the entire Solar Eclipse than fine, but during a film that would drag out the event and you would get bored after a minutes worth. I thought they did a good job of making the scene feel at least a bit longer than just ...bam and it was over.

There is nothing wrong about being analytical over a film and looking for mistakes in various ways, but my comment was directed at the fact that you were being picky on so many small details, yet you didn't spell "Mayan" correctly, which if you misspelled the word once I would call that a 'typo' and give you the benefit on the doubt that you were just typing it fast, but you spelled the word wrong on two occasions and to top it off...you said that you have been to the ruins yourself.

I'm not trying to personally attack you on this issue, but if I am going on and on about a films inaccuracies you better believe that I am going to spell things as correctly as I can in order to make my points seem thought-out, intelligent, and less ignorant.

[Groundbeef]

Your comments are semi-valid and I would have to agree to some extent on them, although I don't claim to be a Historian or an expert on the Mayan civilization. This is a film, not a documentary, that takes certain liberties in order to make the film more accessible to some degree. If you want to sit there during the entire Solar Eclipse than fine, but during a film that would drag out the event and you would get bored after a minutes worth. I thought they did a good job of making the scene feel at least a bit longer than just ...bam and it was over. .

If you read my initial post, I said I enjoyed the film, and was willing to allow Gibson artistic license to do the film as he saw fit. I enjoyed the film, but there were some items that I felt detracted from the film. Part of the film (a major portion actually) was the native language, the dress, and the local. I guess my question is a more broad question in movie making than anything else. Why put 125% into "historical accuracy, ie the dress, language, and location" and then let the little details take away from it? Its not that I wanted to see the entire eclipse, its just that particular use of an eclipse actually drew me OUT of the experience. It was a total non-sequiter (and a copout IMHO) to end the executions in that fashion. Did it ruin the film? No, but it just didn't fit right. The Mayans were people that worshipped the sun, and would not have been suprised to see an eclipse.

Same with the small pox. It is historical fact that many European diseases wiped out major portions of native people, but why introduce it into the story line BEFORE the Europeans landed? It was just incongruent with the timeline that was being presented.

And as for the running injured indian, there seems to be a general theme among directors (Action Film Directors in particular) that they need to ratchet the action up to 150%. At some point the human body simply ceases to function, but some directors feel the need to surpass this in order to make us belive that the main character is somehow super natural. And it does the opposite, it takes viewers out of the movie. Who in their right mind would belive that Jaguar Paw can outrun a Black Panther, let alone in a straight line sprint with an arrow through your gut? It made for a great chase scene, and a good death for the bad guy, but it (IMHO) sorta tarnished the film experience. I still liked it, but not quite as much.




There is nothing wrong about being analytical over a film and looking for mistakes in various ways, but my comment was directed at the fact that you were being picky on so many small details, yet you didn't spell "Mayan" correctly, which if you misspelled the word once I would call that a 'typo' and give you the benefit on the doubt that you were just typing it fast, but you spelled the word wrong on two occasions and to top it off...you said that you have been to the ruins yourself. .

What does visiting the ruins have to do with spelling? Its not like the Mexican tour guide gave us both a tour of the ruins, and then held a spelling bee at the end, loser goes home without his/her head. And for that matter, what does spelling have to do with a movie review? Maybe if Gibson had made a movie about ancient Mayan spelling bee's....yeah thats a great idea.




I'm not trying to personally attack you on this issue, but if I am going on and on about a films inaccuracies you better believe that I am going to spell things as correctly as I can in order to make my points seem thought-out, intelligent, and less ignorant.

On an on? There were 4 minor issues that I presented. And you stated that you agreed with them for the most part. Try to overcome the spelling error of "Myan" vs "Mayan" and then comment on the issue at hand. Sorry if you took it as "ignorance" I think it was more inconsequential, or irrelevant, or even immaterial to the movie review.

Instead of appearing more thought-out, or even intelligent, you come across as a pompus ass. But thanks for the spelling tips. I'll be more mindful in the future.

[PeruvianSkies]

I'll be more mindful in the future.

Smartest thing you've said to date.

[Groundbeef]

Smartest thing you've said to date.

Not only are you pompous; your obtuse...it was sarcasm.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I want the two of you to go sit in opposite corners. You're both on time out!

[Groundbeef]

I want the two of you to go sit in opposite corners. You're both on time out!

But he startted it, or is it started? I better check my dictionary less another speling leson.

[Rich-n-Texas]

What does obtuse mean? :biggrin5:

[PeruvianSkies]

Not only are you pompous; your obtuse...it was sarcasm.

Actually, how about the grammar: "you're pompous" not YOUR POMPOUS. You need to learn the correct use of the words "your" and "you're". I think that was 4th grade English if I recall correctly.

[Groundbeef]

Actually, how about the grammar: "you're pompous" not YOUR POMPOUS. You need to learn the correct use of the words "your" and "you're". I think that was 4th grade English if I recall correctly.

And if I recall correctly I learned not to be an ass in public in Kindergarten.

Unless you have something else to add related to the 1)movie, or 2) the actual criticism I levied against the film that you reviewed (not the spelling or grammer), I think this little sidebar is over.

Sorry I didn't like the movie as much as you did, but I felt my critique was on spot. Perhaps thats why you're so fiesty.

[PeruvianSkies]

And if I recall correctly I learned not to be an ass in public in Kindergarten.

Unless you have something else to add related to the 1)movie, or 2) the actual criticism I levied against the film that you reviewed (not the spelling or grammer), I think this little sidebar is over.

Sorry I didn't like the movie as much as you did, but I felt my critique was on spot. Perhaps thats why you're so fiesty.

My finals words on this issue are this: if you are going to be critical about every detail about a film it might help if you are just as detailed in your analysis and also spelling important words like MAYAN correctly, otherwise it makes you look like a fool. That was the entire point of my response. Maybe you are just insecure about your own personal mistakes. End-o-story.

[GMichael]

You guys can't stop now. It was just getting intersting.

[Groundbeef]

My finals words on this issue are this: if you are going to be critical about every detail about a film it might help if you are just as detailed in your analysis and also spelling important words like MAYAN correctly, otherwise it makes you look like a fool. That was the entire point of my response. Maybe you are just insecure about your own personal mistakes. End-o-story.

Actually it was only 4 details. Did they forget to teach you to count in Kindergarten as well?

And I think your overblown, out of context response to a spelling/grammer error actually made you look like the fool. Unless you of course make it a habit to not only troll the boards looking for reviews you disagree with, but to also Knight yourself "Sir Speller-Guardian of Correct Spelling and Proper Grammer". I'll be watching the boards to make sure you correct every spelling/grammer error on the boards. I'd hate for you to be playing favorites.

Have a nice Saturday...and I think I saw a mis-applied comma in another post. Happy hunting.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Actually it was only 4 details. Did they forget to teach you to count in Kindergarten as well?

And I think your overblown, out of context response to a spelling/grammer error actually made you look like the fool. Unless you of course make it a habit to not only troll the boards looking for reviews you disagree with, but to also Knight yourself "Sir Speller-Guardian of Correct Spelling and Proper Grammer". I'll be watching the boards to make sure you correct every spelling/grammer error on the boards. I'd hate for you to be playing favorites.

Have a nice Saturday...and I think I saw a mis-applied comma in another post. Happy hunting.
Umm... That would be me! :ihih: I'll be watching both of you!