Considering changing my NHT system please advise...

[Matthew B]

Hi,

I have often used this site to help me make decisions but this is the first time I am posting- I really need some opinions.

I currently have a nice little system going consisting of a Denon avr-3805, nht st-4 fronts, sb-3 rears, and an sc-2 center (and a AR sub I have never gotten around to replacing)

Recently 2 things have made me consider changing my gear. The first is the new kef kht-3005 sub/sat system. From what I read the sound is amazing- so I am wondering if it might be better than my current setup...plus I like the small size, as the system is in a relatively small room.

The second is the terrific pricing on klipsch rf-7's which is making me want to buy a pair out of sheer principle. I was wondering if these will blow away the sound I get from the st-4 's however I am worried that the Denon might not do them justice, as I have read these speakers really seem to prefer seperate components rather than a receiver...

any thoughts?

[royphil345]

Hi Matthew B.,

I wouldn't think the Klipsch would have sound quality as good as your current speakers. Their larger 2-ways tend to have thin mids or a slight lack of air in the highs. The Klipsch are easy to drive, but any harshness from budget electronics will come through. They require decent amplification to drive them with authority like any full-sized floorstander. Your receiver looks pretty capable though... They may be too much in the highs for a small room. Larger speakers are usually designed for optimum performance in larger rooms. They are very efficient and will play loud. Will go lower, but a nice sub with your speakers could accomplish that probably even better. They have a distinct sound which is not for everyone... Definitely listen before purchasing any loudspeaker. I can't imagine a sub / sat set sounding much better than what you have... unless you spend much more... Looks like you have a really nice start.

In what area(s) are you looking for improvement? Bass, detail, loudness, smoothness, different tonal balance, etc... Maybe the guys here could suggest a few speakers or other components to look at with some more info... I'll bet a really nice sub would help... and still be necessary if you changed speakers eventually... Are you using good speaker cables and interconnects? (Good... not necessarily pricy...)

[GMichael]

Hi,

I have often used this site to help me make decisions but this is the first time I am posting- I really need some opinions.

I currently have a nice little system going consisting of a Denon avr-3805, nht st-4 fronts, sb-3 rears, and an sc-2 center (and a AR sub I have never gotten around to replacing)

Recently 2 things have made me consider changing my gear. The first is the new kef kht-3005 sub/sat system. From what I read the sound is amazing- so I am wondering if it might be better than my current setup...plus I like the small size, as the system is in a relatively small room.

The second is the terrific pricing on klipsch rf-7's which is making me want to buy a pair out of sheer principle. I was wondering if these will blow away the sound I get from the st-4 's however I am worried that the Denon might not do them justice, as I have read these speakers really seem to prefer seperate components rather than a receiver...

any thoughts?

I don't think that either of these choices would be a big improvement over what you already have. I'd save my money for something that will really "wow" you and be worth the upgrade.
How much music vs HT do you use your system for? If a lot of HT then maybe a sub.

[royphil345]

I don't think that either of these choices would be a big improvement over what you already have. I'd save my money for something that will really "wow" you and be worth the upgrade.
How much music vs HT do you use your system for? If a lot of HT then maybe a sub.

Well said... That's kind of what I was trying to say.

Though... He may have ended up with speakers that just don't have a tonal balance that agrees with him or works well in his room... maybe lack a characteristic that's particularly important to him... Maybe something else could work out better for him without spending a bundle. Sometimes you can't afford speakers that make you say "wow", but you can find some that don't make you say "yuck" while you're saving up... LOL. Need more info to make any suggestions... Wonder if he has a good CD player and how it's hooked up?...

[Woochifer]

Look before you leap ...

First off, what are you trying to improve by swapping out the speakers? In my experience, KEF and Klipsch are very different from one another, and both of them differ significantly from NHT (between, the three I generally prefer the NHT sound).

The NHT speakers use a sealed box design, which makes them very compatible with small rooms because of how the low end roll off on a sealed speaker works in conjunction with the room boundary gain. Subjectively speaking, sealed speakers can sound more "musical" or "tighter" than a ported speaker because by design they have a quicker transient response at the low end and are easier to work around the room acoustics.

A large ported speaker like the RF-7 can easily overpower the room if you run them at full range, and if you choose to crossover the bass and redirect the lows to a subwoofer, then you've made an investment in large floorstanding speakers without really needing them or making use of their capabilities. Declaring that the RF-7s should be purchased based on "principle" is nothing more than principled declaration that you're willing to shell out money for something that might actually downgrade the sound quality of your system.

Sounds to me like you're having a lot of buyer's remorse based merely on hearsay (KEF) and bargain hunting (the Klipsch), both of which are very bad reasons to upgrade. The primary reason to upgrade should be the sound quality. If you don't like the NHTs, and the KEF or Klipsch speakers sound better in a direct comparison in your room, then you got a legitimate reason to upgrade. That last part is very important -- just because a set of speakers sound good in the dealer showroom does not mean that they will sound good when you bring them home. The room acoustics greatly affect what you hear, and what sounds great in one space might sound horrible in another.

Either way, I think you should first maximize the sound quality for what you already own before dumping any more money into component upgrades (i.e., experiment with different speaker placements [alignment, toe-in angle, height, etc.], level match all speakers using a SPL meter and test tone, correctly setup the distance, etc.). Makes no sense to do a system upgrade if you've never even heard what your existing system is fully capable. Any shortcomings in the setup or room acoustics will still affect your system even if you completely swap out all of the components.

Then, I think you will likely get a lot more mileage out of your budget by first upgrading the subwoofer (and because you have a small room, you absolutely need to EQ the sub with a parametric equalizer -- I doubt that the auto-calibration on your receiver will work in the lowest frequencies). Because of your room situation, you might want to go with a sealed sub from Martin Logan, REL, B&W, or Atlantic Technology, or a mail order sealed sub from Rocket, SVS, or ACI.

[GMichael]

Look before you leap ...

First off, what are you trying to improve by swapping out the speakers? In my experience, KEF and Klipsch are very different from one another, and both of them differ significantly from NHT (between, the three I generally prefer the NHT sound).

The NHT speakers use a sealed box design, which makes them very compatible with small rooms because of how the low end roll off on a sealed speaker works in conjunction with the room boundary gain. Subjectively speaking, sealed speakers can sound more "musical" or "tighter" than a ported speaker because by design they have a quicker transient response at the low end and are easier to work around the room acoustics.

A large ported speaker like the RF-7 can easily overpower the room if you run them at full range, and if you choose to crossover the bass and redirect the lows to a subwoofer, then you've made an investment in large floorstanding speakers without really needing them or making use of their capabilities. Declaring that the RF-7s should be purchased based on "principle" is nothing more than principled declaration that you're willing to shell out money for something that might actually downgrade the sound quality of your system.

Sounds to me like you're having a lot of buyer's remorse based merely on hearsay (KEF) and bargain hunting (the Klipsch), both of which are very bad reasons to upgrade. The primary reason to upgrade should be the sound quality. If you don't like the NHTs, and the KEF or Klipsch speakers sound better in a direct comparison in your room, then you got a legitimate reason to upgrade. That last part is very important -- just because a set of speakers sound good in the dealer showroom does not mean that they will sound good when you bring them home. The room acoustics greatly affect what you hear, and what sounds great in one space might sound horrible in another.

Either way, I think you should first maximize the sound quality for what you already own before dumping any more money into component upgrades (i.e., experiment with different speaker placements [alignment, toe-in angle, height, etc.], level match all speakers using a SPL meter and test tone, correctly setup the distance, etc.). Makes no sense to do a system upgrade if you've never even heard what your existing system is fully capable. Any shortcomings in the setup or room acoustics will still affect your system even if you completely swap out all of the components.

Then, I think you will likely get a lot more mileage out of your budget by first upgrading the subwoofer (and because you have a small room, you absolutely need to EQ the sub with a parametric equalizer -- I doubt that the auto-calibration on your receiver will work in the lowest frequencies). Because of your room situation, you might want to go with a sealed sub from Martin Logan, REL, B&W, or Atlantic Technology, or a mail order sealed sub from Rocket, SVS, or ACI.

Well said. See? That's what I was saying. (couldn't resist that one Roy) I just left out all the knowledgeable details.

Upgradeitis can be hard to fight off. It sounds like you are happy with your system now. But, like me, you are looking to find that next level. Don't rush. Listen and read. Many of the upgrades Wooch, and others here will suggest are free. Save up for something that knocks your socks off

[Matthew B]

Thanks for all te useful info, I am now seriously reconsidering buying the kipsch or kef.

However, the rf-7's are supposed to be terrific speakers aren't they?
To give a little more info, I enjoy home theater but tend to appreciate my system more with music. I am not really into the 5 channel stereo thing for music, and prefer 2 channel. So that leaves me with just the st4's (at an 86db sensitivity) and a sub. It sounds good, but I think 2 channel stereo would probably be better with the rf-7's

furthermore, lately I think I am really more of a stereo guy period, even with home theater, and am considering just using 2 speakers...where again I think the klipsch would be better...

thoughts?

[PeruvianSkies]

Thanks for all te useful info, I am now seriously reconsidering buying the kipsch or kef.

However, the rf-7's are supposed to be terrific speakers aren't they?
To give a little more info, I enjoy home theater but tend to appreciate my system more with music. I am not really into the 5 channel stereo thing for music, and prefer 2 channel. So that leaves me with just the st4's (at an 86db sensitivity) and a sub. It sounds good, but I think 2 channel stereo would probably be better with the rf-7's

furthermore, lately I think I am really more of a stereo guy period, even with home theater, and am considering just using 2 speakers...where again I think the klipsch would be better...

thoughts?


Go out and try to find the absolute worst speakers you can...like at a garage sale or something that someone is just dumping off really cheap. Use them for a few weeks until you just can't take the torment any longer. After that period of time is over, then start using your current speakers again...you'll appreciate them all over again and it'll almost be like getting new speakers! This is one cure for the upgrade bug.

[Woochifer]

Thanks for all te useful info, I am now seriously reconsidering buying the kipsch or kef.

However, the rf-7's are supposed to be terrific speakers aren't they?
To give a little more info, I enjoy home theater but tend to appreciate my system more with music. I am not really into the 5 channel stereo thing for music, and prefer 2 channel. So that leaves me with just the st4's (at an 86db sensitivity) and a sub. It sounds good, but I think 2 channel stereo would probably be better with the rf-7's

furthermore, lately I think I am really more of a stereo guy period, even with home theater, and am considering just using 2 speakers...where again I think the klipsch would be better...

thoughts?

Quick question -- have you actually listened to the RF-7s for yourself? Until you have, you have absolutely no way of knowing whether they are better for stereo or multichannel or AM radio. And like I said before, you won't know how those speakers will work for you until you try them out in your room. Just because someone says that the RF-7s sound good, you have no idea what their preferences are nor what kind of room acoustics they have.

Indeed, the RF-7s have a very good reputation, but the Klipsch RF tower speakers I've heard are far from perfect speakers and their tonal characteristics are not well suited to small rooms IMO. Whether they are better than the NHTs depends on your particular preferences. Sealed box acoustic suspension speakers like the NHTs are inherently less efficient than ported speakers, but they also work better with the acoustics of small rooms. Plenty of two-channel adherents prefer acoustic suspension speakers, while others prefer even less efficient flat panel designs.

If you're itching to spend money, by all means do. But, remember that there's no one-size-fits all solution when it comes to speakers. Otherwise, we'd all buy the same ones.

And if you go with the RF-7s, do you intend to upgrade the center and surround speakers as well? If you mix those RF-7s with NHT center and surround speakers, you will screw up the timbre match between the different speakers in your multichannel playback, and likely degrade the coherency of your surround imaging.