Alas, poor Skeptic. I knew him well, Gullible-o-phile! [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : Alas, poor Skeptic. I knew him well, Gullible-o-phile!



Mash
04-30-2007, 01:23 PM
Hey, Skep, I doubt you still bother to lurk here, given the inexorably downward drifting Alexa ratings for this place, but on the off chance that you do I thought I would tell you about a speaker that you should find to be a substantial upgrade to your (aging) AR speakers.

I had wanted a speaker upgrade for our kitchen, a room that is not speaker-friendly. I have a large French Provincial table with high-back leather exec chairs on casters at the end where the fireplace is, while the other end of the kitchen contains the 32 cu-ft side-by-side refrigerator, double wall oven, cook top, dishwasher, granite-topped counters, and so on. The ceiling is cathedral but the acoustics are still a challenge. Magnepan speakers simply wouldn’t fit. But our main system is still the Futterman driven full-range Maggies with a Velodyne Servo-15 in the living room, while the smaller bedroom has a Jolida 302B driving Maggies that are supported with a Velodyne Servo-15. So my standards were high.

What I have found for use in our kitchen is the “reasonably priced” Mackie HR824 “High Definition Studio Monitor”. Mackie lists on their site a few of the folk who use these monitors to produce recordings.

The Mackie HR824 is an active powered two-way speaker, i.e. it uses servo-feedback amplifiers similar to the Velodyne Servo-15, which means the speaker is very articulate. HF dispersion is excellent.


A few of the Mackie HR824 specifications:

LF Driver = 8.75 in magnesium frame mineral-filled polypropylene cone with 16mm excursion;
HF Driver = 1 inch viscous edge-damped AL-alloy dome, ferrofluid-cooled;
Passive radiator is 6 in x 12 in mass-loaded elliptical AL-honeycomb on rubber surround;
Amplifier power….HF = 100 watts, LF = 150 watts;
The frequency response is specified as +/- 1.5 dB 39 Hz to 20 kHz, and each speaker has its confirming calibration curve included;
The max per-pair SPL is 120 dB;
HF & LF Amplifier distortion is less than 0.035% for THD, SMPTE IMD, and DIM 100.
Acoustic space equalization selection is A=1/4 space, B=1/2 space, C=flat;
Crossover is a Modified Linkwitz-Riley, 24 dB/octave at 1800 Hz;
Selectable LF Filters are 37 Hz, 47 Hz or 80 Hz;
Size: 15.75 in H x 10 in W x 12.2 in D;
Weight: 32.9 pounds, each.

Details:
Our kitchen has a resonance slightly below 40 Hz, which these speakers have not yet excited while a powered woofer I was using did excite that resonance. The explanation must either be that the present (temporary) position of these Mackie HR824 speakers does not excite the resonance, or these Mackies simply lack the output power below 40 Hz to excite the resonance. My present feeling is that the Mackies lack the output power below 40 Hz to excite the resonance.

The Mackies reproduce guitars, drums, and piano very well, but they are not forgiving. Many ‘rock’ recordings sound just as bad on the Mackies as they sound on our tube amp / Magnepan systems. The music selections on the Stereophile Test CD #3, track #3 through track #9, do come off quite well even though the bass power on #7 and #9 seems a bit lacking. I would suggest a Velodyne Servo-15 rolled in at 47 Hz or 80 Hz to fully reproduce the lowest octave. I do not think that a subwoofer lacking servo feedback control will have the articulation required to blend acceptably well with these Mackies. I base this on the fact that a Velodyne Servo-15 will blend quite well with our Magnepan speakers while a subwoofer lacking servo feedback control simply would NOT blend with our Magnepan speakers.

The Mackies will accept balanced XLR and ¼-inch inputs as well as unbalanced RCA inputs. I plan to keep the sources on the counter near the refrigerator and place the Mackies on the fireplace mantle at the other end of the kitchen, and I will use Shure 50 ft balanced XLR cables for the connection. There are two advantages to using balanced XLR cables. One advantage is that balanced XLR cables lack a practical distance limitation like the 25 ft length limit for unbalanced RCA connections, and the second advantage is that the Foo-Foo-Dust Mavens have not (yet) discovered the balanced XLR connection cables, which allows us to avoid silly "sounds of different wires" debates.

MusiciansFriend.com has the Mackies for $499 each, as do SameDayMusic.com, AmericanMusical.com, and zZounds.com. ProSound and Stage was still offering these Mackies at $630/each, but I am sure they will soon lower their price if they have not already done so. At least ProSound and Stage had some warehouse-opened Technics SL1200 Mk5 TT for $399!

Feanor
04-30-2007, 05:51 PM
Hey, Skep, I doubt you still bother to lurk here, given the inexorably downward drifting Alexa ratings for this place, but on the off chance that you do I thought I would tell you about a speaker that you should find to be a substantial upgrade to your (aging) AR speakers.

I had wanted a speaker upgrade for our kitchen, a room that is not speaker-friendly.
...
What I have found for use in our kitchen is the “reasonably priced” Mackie HR824 “High Definition Studio Monitor”. Mackie lists on their site a few of the folk who use these monitors to produce recordings.

The Mackie HR824 is an active powered two-way speaker, i.e. it uses servo-feedback amplifiers similar to the Velodyne Servo-15, which means the speaker is very articulate. HF dispersion is excellent.
...
The Mackies will accept balanced XLR and ¼-inch inputs as well as unbalanced RCA inputs. I plan to keep the sources on the counter near the refrigerator and place the Mackies on the fireplace mantle at the other end of the kitchen, and I will use Shure 50 ft balanced XLR cables for the connection. There are two advantages to using balanced XLR cables. One advantage is that balanced XLR cables lack a practical distance limitation like the 25 ft length limit for unbalanced RCA connections, and the second advantage is that the Foo-Foo-Dust Mavens have not (yet) discovered the balanced XLR connection cables, which allows us to avoid silly "sounds of different wires" debates.
...


We haven't seen skeptic around here for quite a while. I think he had a certain distain for us, (and people who don't share his opinions in general). As 'Soundmind' he got banned from Audio Asylum for telling people there exactly what he though of them, (liars and fools, that sort of thing).

Studio monitors have held a certain fascination for me for some time, and your choice of the Mackies seems an interesting and valid choice for your circumstances. Balanced interconnects are clearly the way to go for longer runs since they resist picking up noise and interference. I won't say that the "Foo-Foo-Dust Mavens" hadn't discovered them, though. :biggrin5:

audio_dude
04-30-2007, 06:12 PM
wait...did he say leather-back exec chairs...in the kitchen?

sorry, excuse me for a moment while i pity my life.

Mash
05-01-2007, 08:41 AM
but so what? I am a big boy and I could handle evenhanded debates with Skeptic. I don't know that he had any disdain for me. I sensed that Skeptic had a background in electrical engineering (EE) as I do. Of course, I also have structures, dynamics, and aerodynamics in my background- I am really well resourced as they say. This allowed me to guide the development of advanced products when most others simply could not.

I think Skeptic was simply frustrated or perhaps even disgusted with the 'see no science, hear no science, speak no science' viewpoints enforced here, or as one moderator gloated, all such activities were 'effectively banished' to the 'Audio Lab Ghetto' (Ghetto was his term) as the wisdom of 'listening to wires' ran rampant here. The amusing development is that those who applauded this 'speak no science improvement' subsequently indicated boredom with this place, which perhaps is what drives the declining web interest and could translate into reduced site income.... an unintended consequence, I am sure. This entire charade makes me think of the Kansas Board of Education's repeated sincere pushes to introduce "Creationism" as a curriculum to be taught alongside the Theory of Evolution...... Life is entertaining if you give it a chance!

Don't pity your life, Audio Dude. I obtained these quite nice leather chairs and table for a total of less than $1200. I suspect some folk here spend $1200 on their wires and they get far, far less benefit, i.e. these tilting, gas-lift chairs are very comfortable and since they can be scooted about they are also very convenient to use. Thinking-outside-of-the-box kitchen furniture, if you will! We have no debts from offspring college tuition, credit cards, or motor vehicles even though we now have a 2007 Camry V6 and a 1998 F150 V8 4X4 with less than 39K on it. We have money simply as the result of not wasting it on debt interest, snake oil, and phony investment schemes. Good real estate investments also helped.

Mash
05-14-2007, 07:34 AM
waiting to hear your comments about these Mackie HR824 speakers....

There WAS a Resident Distinguished Spammer here, but it appears that the spam-post may have just been deleted. And GOSH, I had never gotten to see a Distinguished Spammer before. I am sure it is a rare species- at least I hope it is.

E-Stat
05-14-2007, 09:31 AM
Studio monitors have held a certain fascination for me for some time... I won't say that the "Foo-Foo-Dust Mavens" hadn't discovered them, though.
As one who would likely be considered a FFDM (LOL!), I discovered Braun tri-amplified monitors in 1974. There are certainly some advantages to the concept such as compactness and wiring simplicity. In the case of the LV-1020s though, the amplifiers were nothing to write home about. I later disconnected the upper drivers and used them to augment the low end of the Magnepan MG-IIs driven by an Audire amp.

Speaking of FFD, the amps in the Mackies are "rated" at 250 watts total, yet only consume 135 watts. Talk about conservation of energy!

rw

E-Stat
05-14-2007, 09:37 AM
...but it appears that the spam-post may have just been deleted.
FWIW, I would be able to see deleted posts as they are simply rendered invisible to the general public. No deleted posts in this thread unless the poster had done so themselves in a very short period of time.

rw

Feanor
05-14-2007, 11:31 AM
but so what? I am a big boy and I could handle evenhanded debates with Skeptic. I don't know that he had any disdain for me. I sensed that Skeptic had a background in electrical engineering (EE) as I do. Of course, I also have structures, dynamics, and aerodynamics in my background- I am really well resourced as they say. This allowed me to guide the development of advanced products when most others simply could not.

I think Skeptic was simply frustrated or perhaps even disgusted with the 'see no science, hear no science, speak no science' viewpoints enforced here, or as one moderator gloated, all such activities were 'effectively banished' to the 'Audio Lab Ghetto' (Ghetto was his term) as the wisdom of 'listening to wires' ran rampant here. The amusing development is that those who applauded this 'speak no science improvement' subsequently indicated boredom with this place, which perhaps is what drives the declining web interest and could translate into reduced site income.... an unintended consequence, I am sure. This entire charade makes me think of the Kansas Board of Education's repeated sincere pushes to introduce "Creationism" as a curriculum to be taught alongside the Theory of Evolution...... Life is entertaining if you give it a chance!

....

I miss skeptic around here and also around AA (where he was more recently know as Soundmind; he got banned as I mentioned). I think you've read him pretty well, Mash.

The only opinion of skeptic's that really p!ssed me off was his agreement with Ayn Rand and "Objectivism". :dita: to you on that one, skeptic.