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Rich-n-Texas
04-12-2007, 04:55 PM
...And it won't play. The DVD changer is a Panny DVD-F87, and the receiver is a Yamaha HTR 5740. The audio settings on the changer are: PCM Digital Output = up to 96KHz, Dobly Digital = Bitstream, DTS Digital Surround = Bitstream. The changer reads the disk then starts playing like I'd expect, but there's no audio. Lit indicators are: "DVD" (selected) "D.Mix", "PRG" (progressive scan for video) the track number, and "GRP" (group 1) which I can't find any info about in the manual. When the changer is in play mode, some functions at the remote don't work (I know that some aren't supposed to) or return a sluggish response from the player. The PCM indicator on the receiver is lit along with the Dolby PL light, but only the front left & right speaker indicators are lit. Also, when I run a white noise test from the changer, I only hear sound from the left & right, which makes sense. I'm able to switch the receiver to DTS and select Neo:6 music, but I don't think that makes any difference anyway. At the TV I see the screen flash some rectangle boxes, the screen goes blank after that for about a second, and then it's back at the DVD logo. This sequence repeats constantly. I'm sure this isn't enough info, but it's about all I can think of to put out here.

I have no idea what's wrong or what to do next, but I'll be real disappointed if I bought a bad DVD-A from CD Universe.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rich

kelsci
04-13-2007, 01:18 AM
My brother has one of these F changers. I have not read the manual recently but if I do recall properly, it will only play DVD-A in two channel mode.

markw
04-13-2007, 03:33 AM
Unless things have changed recently, I believe you need to have the player to decode the DVD-Audio tracks and then pass them, via the six analog outputs on the player, to six corresponding inputs on the receiver.

IOW, receivers DO handle DD, DTS (via bitstream) and redbook CD (via PCM) decoding via a digital feed (coax or toslink) but they don't handle the hi-rez formats, at least not yet.

N. Abstentia
04-13-2007, 04:12 AM
Yeah like markw said, unless you're connected via the multi-channel analog you're going to get nada from DVD-A.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 05:21 AM
Some DVD-A's have a variety of audio formats on them. In most cases they will have a DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital 5.1 mix, which can go through your digital connection (coax or optical) however there should also be MLP 5.1, which can only go through 5.1 analog connections. I looked up that player and it does have the 5.1 analog outputs, which you willl need to connect to the receiver if you want to listen to MLP, but if you just want to listen to DTS or DD on the disc than you only need your digital connection. Most likely you will have to go into the settings on the actual player and tell it which mode to play in as well. On my DVD player you have to go under menu, then audio, then output and change the DVD-A setting from either DVD-Video ro DVD-Audio. When the machine is in DVD-Audio mode it will want to read the MLP portion and when it is in DVD-Video mode it will want to read the digital portion. I am sure that this is what you are experiencing and this should fix the issue. I've had loads of experience and problems with this same thing. One other thing...make sure that your receiver is set up to do either digital or analog based on what the player is sending it...sometimes the receiver has an 'auto' setting so it will automatically play either digital or analog if that's what is coming....mine also has a multi-channel imput that I must select when doing 5.1 analog (DVD-A or SACD).

Ask more questions if this doesn't help.

Rich-n-Texas
04-13-2007, 05:43 AM
Well, there's nothing in the guide to indicate extra cabling is required, but the guide is extremely hard to follow anyway, at least for my eyes.

I read machani's review of this player, and some quotes include:


I bought this DVD-changer for two reasons: DVD-Audio playback and multi-disk capability. The F87 appears to be an exact replica of the Panasonic F85, except that the digital audio output is coaxial instead of optical which the F85 has. It can play a variety of formats: DVD, DVD-A, DVD-RAM, SACD, VCD, CD, CD-RW, etc.

And this:



CONNECTIONS: I connected the player using component video cables, since I have a HD TV monitor. I also I have it connected to my JVC RX-6030 receiver using the digital coax and also to my Cayin TA-30 tube amplifier using RCA cables (in stereo mode). I use the JVC receiver for movies and the Cayin amplifier for music in stereo mode.

I just looked at a diagram of the back of the changer and did notice accomodations for 5.1 analog output so I guess I mis-interpreted what he said in his review. And I guess you have to tell the changer to output to those connections "in stereo mode" right? My receiver will accept a six channel analog input, and I've got boatloads of RCA cables so I guess it's worth the money I paid for the DVD to connect it up.

Thanks for the help all. :thumbsup:

PS: Thanks PS. :cornut: You responded while I was composing this (at work so I have to fit actual work in) so there'll be some redundancy here. -Rich

Rich-n-Texas
04-13-2007, 05:58 AM
Some DVD-A's have a variety of audio formats on them. In most cases they will have a DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital 5.1 mix, which can go through your digital connection (coax or optical) however there should also be MLP 5.1, which can only go through 5.1 analog connections. I looked up that player and it does have the 5.1 analog outputs, which you willl need to connect to the receiver if you want to listen to MLP, but if you just want to listen to DTS or DD on the disc than you only need your digital connection. Most likely you will have to go into the settings on the actual player and tell it which mode to play in as well. On my DVD player you have to go under menu, then audio, then output and change the DVD-A setting from either DVD-Video ro DVD-Audio. When the machine is in DVD-Audio mode it will want to read the MLP portion and when it is in DVD-Video mode it will want to read the digital portion. I am sure that this is what you are experiencing and this should fix the issue. I've had loads of experience and problems with this same thing. One other thing...make sure that your receiver is set up to do either digital or analog based on what the player is sending it...sometimes the receiver has an 'auto' setting so it will automatically play either digital or analog if that's what is coming....mine also has a multi-channel imput that I must select when doing 5.1 analog (DVD-A or SACD).

Ask more questions if this doesn't help.

...What does MLP stand for, just for my own information.

And now the obligitory and sometimes inflamatory cable question: Since we have analog frequencies present at these outputs, what consideration should I give to cabling? I said I have boatloads of RCA cables but is there a prefered configuration? I'll only need about a 1 meter length and I'm a big fan of Acoustic Research.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 06:27 AM
...What does MLP stand for, just for my own information.

And now the obligitory and sometimes inflamatory cable question: Since we have analog frequencies present at these outputs, what consideration should I give to cabling? I said I have boatloads of RCA cables but is there a prefered configuration? I'll only need about a 1 meter length and I'm a big fan of Acoustic Research.


this is what MLP stands for. There are a few sites out there that explain what it is in more detail. It's essentially a high-rez format that in most cases offers more refinement and definition over DTS or DD. I, however, always find myself preferring the thickness of DTS over MLP.

markw
04-13-2007, 06:47 AM
And now the obligitory and sometimes inflamatory cable question: Since we have analog frequencies present at these outputs, what consideration should I give to cabling? I said I have boatloads of RCA cables but is there a prefered configuration? I'll only need about a 1 meter length and I'm a big fan of Acoustic Research.All you need is six solid analog cables with RCA's on the ends, and that one meter length pretty makes anything else moot. AR cables are more than adequate but you might try what you have lying around first. The point of diminishing returns is a lot lower on cables than the marketing mavens want you to believe.

kelsci
04-13-2007, 08:42 AM
Those 5.1 analog outputs may only output dolby digital or dts from a built in dolby digital/dts in that player. I do not believe that player has a decoder for 5.1 DVD-A, but only a 2.0 or a 2.1 DVD-A. MLP if I am correct stands for Meridian Lossless Packing which is another name for DVD-A sound. I think Meridian had some input on the invention of this.

markw
04-13-2007, 08:55 AM
Those 5.1 analog outputs may only output dolby digital or dts from a built in dolby digital/dts in that player. I do not believe that player has a decoder for 5.1 DVD-A, but only a 2.0 or a 2.1 DVD-A. MLP if I am correct stands for Meridian Lossless Packing which is another name for DVD-A sound. I think Meridian had some input on the invention of this.I was under the assumption that you were working with a DVD-Audio player, but upon checking it out on the web, this doesn't look like one of them.

Just like if you had wanted to play back SACD discs, you would need a player that's capable of it, you need a player that's capable of playing DVD-Audio discs.

As you just found out, just because it says "DVD" doens't mean it'll play back the hi-rez DVD-Audio format in just any DVD player. You may get something, but it won't be Hi-Rez DVD-Audio.

Sorry for the misleading info before. It just proves that the word "assume" consists of three distinct parts.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 09:03 AM
MLP - Meridian Lossless Packing is the data-reduction technique selected for DVD-Audio. MLP sounds better because it is a lossless data algorithm. It is not like MP3 for instance. You get back exactly what you put it, so it does not distort or change any of the audio information. MLP on average reduces the size of the file by about 50%. So, with MLP you can put 6 channels of 24/96 on the disk, and still not hit the 9.6 Mbs data limitation. MLP can also be used to simply get longer recording times onto the disk.

According to the specs on CRUTCHFIELD that player does do DVD-Audio...here is the spec sheet...

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-C3NnHLVJS6L/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=54400&tab=features_and_specs&i=133DVDF87S#Tab

markw
04-13-2007, 09:11 AM
According to the specs on CRUTCHFIELD that player does do DVD-Audio...here is the spec sheet...

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-C3NnHLVJS6L/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=54400&tab=features_and_specs&i=133DVDF87S#TabIt's good for RiT in that he CAN do DVD-Audio after all and for me as it seems the only mistake I made here is thinking I made one. ;)

Rich-n-Texas
04-13-2007, 10:51 AM
Yes, it will "playback" DVD-A and HDCD, and even though the specs @ crutchfield don't show the 5.1 audio out RCA jacks, I do still have to use them correct?

Note: I have the uncanny ability to make things more confusing and complicated than they need to be, witnessed by markw's false mistake. It doesn't even have to be obvious. :(

OTOH, he's from North Jerrrsey, (I from SJ) so we can't be too sure anyway! :ciappa:

markw
04-13-2007, 12:09 PM
Yes, it will "playback" DVD-A and HDCD, and even though the specs @ crutchfield don't show the 5.1 audio out RCA jacks, I do still have to use them correct?Yeah, the only way to getDVD-Audio is vis those analog jacks. IT sounds like your manual was written as a well as my Denon 2802 manual.


Note: I have the uncanny ability to make things more confusing and complicated than they need to be, witnessed by markw's false mistake. It doesn't even have to be obvious. :(

OTOH, he's from North Jerrrsey, (I from SJ) so we can't be too sure anyway! :ciappa:SJ? Wazzat? South Jersey? I thought you were from Texas?

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 12:11 PM
Yes, it will "playback" DVD-A and HDCD, and even though the specs @ crutchfield don't show the 5.1 audio out RCA jacks, I do still have to use them correct?

Note: I have the uncanny ability to make things more confusing and complicated than they need to be, witnessed by markw's false mistake. It doesn't even have to be obvious. :(

OTOH, he's from North Jerrrsey, (I from SJ) so we can't be too sure anyway! :ciappa:

Rich...

If you take my advice from earlier you should be golden. I think that will solve the issue, however I wanted to at least offer one more piece that is important in some cases. My example in this case will be the DVD-A of Hotel California.

There are 4 possible ways to listen to this DVD-A. It has the following audio options:

DTS 5.1
Dolby Digital 2.0
Advanced Resolution Surround (MLP)
Advanced Resolution Stereo 2.0

Now, here's the thing...you are only given 2 options at a time, depending on if your player is set to DVD-VIdeo or DVD-Audio. You MUST on most machines tell the machine to play DVD-Video or DVD-Audio while the machine does NOT have anything in the tray, otherwise the option to change it is blocked off.

So, let's say you have it set for DVD-Audio, then the menu pops up and you can choose (in my examples case) either Advanced Resolution stereo or surround. In order to choose DTS or DD you have to stop the disc and go into the players setup and choose DVD-Video in order to get the digital audio choices (DD or DTS).

Not all DVD-A's are like this, oddly enough the outside of the Hotel California does not even mention that it has DTS, whereas the Fleetwood Mac DVD-A for SAY YOU WILL claims to have DTS, but actually does NOT, just in case you were considering picking up these titles.

On most DVD-A you are given all of the audio options from ONE menu and when you have your digital connection and analog connections ready to go than when you switch from digital to analog the only thing you should have to do is change your receiver from digital to analog, depending on what you are playing. Like I said before, you probably have a multi-channel button on your receiver for when you are playing SACD or DVD-A (MLP stuff).

I know that this sounds incredibly confusing and that is one reason why most people don't bother with DVD-A as it's a pain in the butt to get going and you also need to have on-screen stuff happening to you know what to select, SACD is much easier in my opinion.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 12:13 PM
Yeah, the only way to getDVD-Audio is vis those analog jacks.

No you don't. You can play DVD-Audio without 5.1 analog jacks, you however will NOT be able to play the Advanced Resolution/MLP audio portions. You can still play the DTS or DD parts of the disc. In which case all you need is a digital coax or optical connection.

Rich-n-Texas
04-13-2007, 12:28 PM
I dig into to your example ASAP PS. Thanks again.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 12:30 PM
I dig into to your example ASAP PS. Thanks again.

If, after you try the solutions that I recommended, you are still having issues you can call me and I can walk you through some other possibilities....i've fussed around with tons of DVD-A over the years and dealt with many difficult players as well in the process. I have about 25 DVD-A's and once SACD came around I haven't really bought too many more. They are pretty good, but now they have such a limited selection. I am waiting for more Queen DVD-A's, but doesn't look like that is going to happen. It's too bad too cause they are really good in 5.1.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 12:35 PM
Which DVD-A title are you using anyway?

markw
04-13-2007, 12:51 PM
No you don't. You can play DVD-Audio without 5.1 analog jacks, you however will NOT be able to play the Advanced Resolution/MLP audio portions. You can still play the DTS or DD parts of the disc. In which case all you need is a digital coax or optical connection.Hell, anybody can do DD/DTS with a standard DVD player and any HT receiver. Do you really think that's what he's asking about here?

Why in pulperfect he!! would anyone want to bother buying a DVD-Audio player and a DVD-Audio disc unless they wanted to lsten to what you are so fond of referring to "the Advanced Resolution/MLP audio portions", or what normal people simply call "DVD-Audio"?

Do you even bother to think about what you're saying. or are you operating on autopilot?

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 12:55 PM
Hell, anybody can do DD/DTS with a standard DVD player and any HT receiver. Do you really think that's what he's asking about here?

Why in pulperfect he!! would anyone want to bother buying a DVD-Audio player and a DVD-Audio disc unless they wanted to lsten to what you are so fond of referring to "the Advanced Resolution/MLP audio portions", or what normal people simply call "DVD-Audio"?

Do you even bother to think about what you're saying. or are you operating on autopilot?

Oh please. You are just upset because I corrected you when you were absolutely wrong on the matter. Don't say things that are only partially true. You made a statement that is not 100% correct. You CAN play DVD-A's without having the 6 analog connections, so maybe you should revise your comment and simply say that you MUST have analog in order to play advanced resolution or MLP.

Don't blame me for your errors.

markw
04-13-2007, 01:08 PM
Oh please. You are just upset because I corrected you when you were absolutely wrong on the matter. Don't say things that are only partially true. You made a statement that is not 100% correct. You CAN play DVD-A's without having the 6 analog connections, so maybe you should revise your comment and simply say that you MUST have analog in order to play advanced resolution or MLP.

Don't blame me for your errors.I wasn't wrong. I knew what he was asking and responded in kind. You just want to show how many words you can spew out and confuse the issue.

Now, if all he wanted was DD/DTS, then you're right. But, if he really wanted that "DVD-Audio", then you're just a showboating blowhard but, I guess when you live in mommy's cellar you have a lot of time to play these games.

Now, if you can tell us how he can get "DVD-AUDIO", in the sense the whole world knows it as, via a digital connection, then I'll apologize. If not, you're spewing verbal diarrhea again, which you seem to be getting a well-deserved reputation for here.

Remember, it''s not how many words you use to hide an answer a question in, it's how few and how clear one makes it. Try, for once, directly answering a question when asked and dazzling with brilliance instead of baffling with BS.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 01:17 PM
It's good for RiT in that he CAN do DVD-Audio after all and for me as it seems the only mistake I made here is thinking I made one. ;)

Do you have issues with being proved wrong? Apparently so. You can't deal with the fact that you were not right with what you posted. Rich also found all the information that I provided helpful, which is why he responded with...


I dig into to your example ASAP PS. Thanks again.

If he just follows what I told him to do instead of getting confused by your statements about how you HAVE to have analog to play DVD-A's than this would go much smoother. Maybe you need to stay out of things that you don't know very much about or be more careful when providing a solution with the words you use.

markw
04-13-2007, 01:24 PM
Do you have issues with being proved wrong?No, but I wasn't wrong. Why am I not wrong? Simple. He isn't complaining about not getting DD/DTS.

Granted, you don't need analog connections to geplay DVD-A's, but you do need them to play what the worlds calls "DVD-Audio"

Now, if you thought all he wanted to do is play DD/DTS, then you have that a reading comprehension problem along with perhaps several grossly apparant personality disorders.

It's plainly clear to all here, except perhaps you, that he wanted what the worlds calls "DVD-Audio" and, for that you NEED the analog cionnections. Wanna argue that? If you couldn't discern that from the thread then you're obviously lacking a few things upstairs. To much ego and not enough brains.

As is plain for all to see, you 're the only one playing word games here but if that's the only way you can claim victory, then feel proud of yourself, child.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 01:31 PM
Yeah, the only way to getDVD-Audio is vis those analog jacks.

YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOO WRONG ON SOOOOOOOO MANY LEVELS.

You say that you can ONLY get DVD-A to play with analog, which is obviously wrong as you can play DVD-A's with a digital connection as you are now aware of and perhaps you already knew, but didn't come across very well. The original poster RICH-N-TEXAS never mentions anything about specifically playing MLP or analog in his initial post, he simply has a problem playing his first DVD-Audio title that he purchased and wants to know what it won't play. Therefore, my responses have been clarifying the matters and explaining to him what MLP is. He was unaware of the differences between having the player set for analog or digital.

YOU ARE THE ONE who is making this issue muddy by telling him that he MUST have analog connections to play the darn thing. Get your facts straight and then provide them accurately. Don't attack me for your wrong information. Is 1949 the year that mothers dropped kids on their heads or something?

Rich.....

If you need help with this just ask me or PM me...I actually know what I am talking about unlike certain OTHER people around here.

markw
04-13-2007, 01:38 PM
YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOO WRONG ON SOOOOOOOO MANY LEVELS.

You say that you can ONLY get DVD-A to play with analog, which is obviously wrong as you can play DVD-A's with a digital connection as you are now aware of and perhaps you already knew, but didn't come across very well. The original poster RICH-N-TEXAS never mentions anything about specifically playing MLP or analog in his initial post, he simply has a problem playing his first DVD-Audio title that he purchased and wants to know what it won't play. Therefore, my responses have been clarifying the matters and explaining to him what MLP is. He was unaware of the differences between having the player set for analog or digital.

YOU ARE THE ONE who is making this issue muddy by telling him that he MUST have analog connections to play the darn thing. Get your facts straight and then provide them accurately. Don't attack me for your wrong information. Is 1949 the year that mothers dropped kids on their heads or something?

Rich.....

If you need help with this just ask me or PM me...I actually know what I am talking about unlike certain OTHER people around here... out of your arse again.

You obviously didn't even read or at least comprehend my posts. Please note that in every post I made, I referenced "DVD-Audio".

to wit: (or twit, whichever)
he simply has a problem playing his first DVD-Audio title DVD-Audio? Funny, according to you that's not the same as "DVD-A, is it? Then why bring it up here? Why not just refer to it as a "DVD-A" disc like you do everywhere else?

Now, here you go using it. I guess that proves my point that you knew he was asking about "DVD-AUDIO", Not just any old format on a that disc, but just wanted to get your moneys worth out of that verbal exlax you took. I'd say you did well

Can you say "burn-out", kiddies?

But, I hear drug use cause a lot of birth defects in children born between 1979 and 1981. Must be tied into sitting too close to laserdiscs.

Dusty Chalk
04-13-2007, 02:30 PM
http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

N. Abstentia
04-13-2007, 03:25 PM
I also said it.

You can't get DVD-Audio unless you use the analog multi channel outputs..and I stand by that.

You can listen to the crippled DD5.1 tracks ON a DVD-A disc with an optical cable, but you can't listen to the DVD-Audio tracks with an optical cable.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 03:29 PM
I also said it.

You can't get DVD-Audio unless you use the analog multi channel outputs..and I stand by that.

You can listen to the crippled DD5.1 tracks ON a DVD-A disc with an optical cable, but you can't listen to the DVD-Audio tracks with an optical cable.

You are 100% correct, but making the statement that you can't use DVD-A discs unless you have analog connections is false.

markw's trying to make the point that DVD-A is useless without analog connections and that most people buy DVD-A for the MLP, which is ludicrous. I hardly EVER listen to the MLP as I prefer the DTS.

GMichael
04-13-2007, 03:30 PM
http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

If I insult you, can I be in your signature also?:ciappa:

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 03:36 PM
If I insult you, can I be in your signature also?:ciappa:

Am I going crazy here or what???

markw
04-13-2007, 03:38 PM
markw's trying to make the point that DVD-A is useless without analog connectionsI don't recall ever saying that.

It's one thing to be an anal, pedantic, neurotic mass of explosed nerves, but at least stick to the facts. Don't lie.

Now, be a man for a change, stop whining, and show me, and all of us for that matter, where I ever said that.

You're crying like a baby now.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 03:43 PM
Why in pulperfect he!! would anyone want to bother buying a DVD-Audio player and a DVD-Audio disc unless they wanted to lsten to what you are so fond of referring to "the Advanced Resolution/MLP audio portions", or what normal people simply call "DVD-Audio"?

Do you even bother to think about what you're saying. or are you operating on autopilot?

Hey markw...answer me this since you know so much....

What is DTS Entertainment known for? Oh wait...releasing DVD-Audio's and holding the largest part of the DVD-A market. Hmmmm. Interesting since you claim that people are buying DVD-A for MLP and that's the only reason they are bothering with the format.

GMichael
04-13-2007, 03:45 PM
Am I going crazy here or what???

That was for Dusty. He's been having fun with his sig lately. I was feeling left out.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 03:47 PM
That was for Dusty. He's been having fun with his sig lately. I was feeling left out.

no need to feel left out...you can join in this fight. or you can get a front row seat while I put a know-it-all in his place.

markw
04-13-2007, 03:52 PM
Hey markw...answer me this since you know so much....

What is DTS Entertainment known for? Oh wait...releasing DVD-Audio's and holding the largest part of the DVD-A market. Hmmmm. Interesting since you claim that people are buying DVD-A for MLP and that's the only reason they are bothering with the format.Geez, man. Were's your self pride?

You've just been proven to be a liar in front of everyone here.

That doesn't bother you at all, does it?

Thanks for playing. You're the weakest link.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 03:57 PM
Thanks for playing. You're the weakest link.

In essence that is exactly what you are saying the quote that I provided below. Now you answer my question about DTS Entertainment....? You simply can't handle the fact that I know more than you on this topic and have pointed out your mistakes. You act like DVD-A is for MLP only and that's what your comment here implies...


Why in pulperfect he!! would anyone want to bother buying a DVD-Audio player and a DVD-Audio disc unless they wanted to lsten to what you are so fond of referring to "the Advanced Resolution/MLP audio portions", or what normal people simply call "DVD-Audio"?

If you knew a thing or two about the format you would know different and realize that DTS Entertainment is primarily responsible for the DTS-CD's that were released like Sheryl Crow, Moody Blues, and a few others, which then became the DVD-Audio format and their label "DTS Entertainment" is on the majority of DVD-A titles. Yes, there is MLP on the discs, but that is clearly not why people ONLY buy them. You've lost the battle, you've lost the war. Now go home.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 04:01 PM
In essence that is exactly what you are saying the quote that I provided below. Now you answer my question about DTS Entertainment....? You simply can't handle the fact that I know more than you on this topic and have pointed out your mistakes. You act like DVD-A is for MLP only and that's what your comment here implies...



If you knew a thing or two about the format you would know different and realize that DTS Entertainment is primarily responsible for the DTS-CD's that were released like Sheryl Crow, Moody Blues, and a few others, which then became the DVD-Audio format and their label "DTS Entertainment" is on the majority of DVD-A titles. Yes, there is MLP on the discs, but that is clearly not why people ONLY buy them. You've lost the battle, you've lost the war. Now go home.

Here's a picture to demonstrate what is obviously difficult for you to comprehend in words...
http://www.amateurhometheater.com/El%20Gatos%20Corner/queen%20opera%20cover.jpg

markw
04-13-2007, 04:06 PM
Only cellar dwelling geeks who swear that laserdiscs werethe ultimate in video technology would buy DVD-Audio players only for the DTS.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 04:09 PM
Only cellar dwelling geeks who swear that laserdiscs werethe ultimate in video technology would buy DVD-Audio players only for the DTS.

Is that your comeback? That's pretty lame, considering you can't answer my question. The reason you can't is because it will prove you wrong, so you'd rather ignore the issue and try to insult me about another discussion that we had. Laserdisc at one time was the ultimate for Home Video and there are still cases where the 12" Laserdisc beats it's DVD counterpart. I can ramble the titles off again, but I think you can read the other thread if you wish.

And to set the record straight I live in a 1400sq ft. townhouse with my wife and the only reason you think i'm a geek is because I know more than you do, even though i'm less than half your age. Just deal with it....

markw
04-13-2007, 04:18 PM
"In the DVD-Video portion on DVD-Audio/Video discs is a multi-channel soundtrack using Dolby Digital and/or optionally DTS surround sound which can be played back by existing DVD-Video players. "

]url]http://www.timefordvd.com/tutorial/DVD-AudioTutorial.shtml[/url]

IOW,you don't need a DVD-Audio player to acces the DD/DTS soundtracks on a DVD-A (your term, not mine) disc. You can do it with a standard DVD player.

So, again, please tell me why would one need to buy a DVD-Audio player unless one wished to avail themselves of DVD-Audio?

Keep on showing us how much you know.

And, I'm still waiting for those examples where I said what you're TRYING to say I said.

You keep trying to change the subject, but you're still rolling craps.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 04:24 PM
"In the DVD-Video portion on DVD-Audio/Video discs is a multi-channel soundtrack using Dolby Digital and/or optionally DTS surround sound which can be played back by existing DVD-Video players. "

]url]http://www.timefordvd.com/tutorial/DVD-AudioTutorial.shtml[/url]

IOW,you don't need a DVD-Audio player to acces the DD/DTS soundtracks on a DVD-A (your term, not mine) disc. You can do it with a standard DVD player.

So, again, please tell me why would one need to buy a DVD-Audio player unless one wished to avail themselves of DVD-Audio?

Keep on showing us how much you know.

And, I'm still waiting for those examples where I said what you're TRYING to say I said.

You keep trying to change the subject, but you're still rolling craps.

I'm glad you had to look that up since you obviously don't know this stuff yourself. Congrats on finding that, but are you really that desparate to try and prove me wrong? I mean, why can't you just admit that your statement was wrong in the first place. It wasn't 100% wrong, only partially wrong. The point is this...

You don't tell someone who is first hooking up a DVD-Audio player (who didn't even have the analog connections connected) that he HAS to have them in order for the DVD-A to be of use. Rich could have just as easily benefitted from the digital parts of the DVD-Audio, but YES he does need the analog connections to take full use of it.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 04:27 PM
I showed you the quote, but then again you don't read too well, so maybe that is your problem. I am still waiting for you to tell me all about DTS Entertainment or maybe you are still Googling it so you can find out and then try and show me how much you know.

Rich-n-Texas
04-13-2007, 04:33 PM
:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

I'm just now jumping in at the end of this thread...

Gosh, three pages, I feel so popular!

I luv yous guys. :smilewinkgrin: :o

We're in the middle of some pretty severe thunderstorms right now here in Wylie so I've shut everthing off. I've got alot of reading to do, but I'm sure that together, we can all get through this. :biggrin5: :hand: :cornut:

Peace out...

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 04:37 PM
:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

I'm just now jumping in at the end of this thread...

Gosh, three pages, I feel so popular!

I luv yous guys. :smilewinkgrin: :o

We're in the middle of some pretty severe thunderstorms right now here in Wylie so I've shut everthing off. I've got alot of reading to do, but I'm sure that together, we can all get through this. :biggrin5: :hand: :cornut:

Peace out...

I was trying to be helpful as possible and giving you as much information as I could without being too confusing. Others have clouded the issue. My recommendation to you is to connect your player with both analog and digital connections to your receiver at this point. Then check under your setup on the player to see if you can switch the players mode from DVD-Video to DVD-Audio. If you can, try DVD-Audio once you have your 5.1 analog connections made to your receiver. Also, make sure that your receiver is either set to analog inputs or (like mine says) Multi-Channel Input. Once you have done that, check for sound. Which DVD-A disc did you buy anyway???

markw
04-13-2007, 04:56 PM
I showed you the quote, but then again you don't read too well, so maybe that is your problem.I read quite well, and I write well also. That's why I'm so sure that you're lying through your teeth.

Know what? Everyone else sees it, too. We're having a good laugh about you here.

Now, if you're referring to the one quote of mine you used already, perhaps you should re-read it in the context of this discussion, keeping in mind the accepted meaning of "DVD-Audio", and then get back to us.

We notice you try to shift to word games when you lose on context, and I ain't lettin' you off that easy now that you've stooped to bald-faced lies.

And, sorry for the quote and link, but there's no shutting you up unless it's right there in black and white (figuratively speaking). Don't I even get a thank you for teaching you this? I'm hurt (sniff sniff)

And remember, this isn't a quiz of my knowledge. Everything I said was factual and true.

You lied and put words in my mouth and I called you on it.

Until you resolve this, your stock is sinking.

Go ahead. Be a man. Quit trying to change the subject and back up your words.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 05:00 PM
Yeah, the only way to getDVD-Audio is vis those analog jacks. IT sounds like your manual was written as a well as my Denon 2802 manual.

SJ? Wazzat? South Jersey? I thought you were from Texas?

If you write so well than please tell me what a VIS is?

I don't need to back up my words...I have not said anything on here that you can prove is wrong. Show me one thing on here that I said as advice to Rich that is incorrect? Please enlighten me....

Once again you are just bitter because you are being schooled by someone younger than yourself. Just face that fact that you were not giving all the correct information.

L.J.
04-13-2007, 05:05 PM
http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

Hey Dusty, wanna pass somma that. Thanx

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 05:15 PM
Hey Dusty, wanna pass somma that. Thanx

I'll take some too as I am getting tired of arguing over something so rediculous.

On a positive note though...I have a picture that says it all...

markw
04-13-2007, 05:23 PM
If you write so well than please tell me what a VIS is?Bwahahaha. You're kiddng, right? You know what that means, doncha?


I don't need to back up my words...I have not said anything on here that you can prove is wrong.Well, by implying that one needs a DVD-Audio player to extract DD and DTS soundtracks is dead wrong and my link proves that, yet you tried to pass that off as justification for needing a DVD-Audio player. Actually, I'm pretty sure that was ignorance on your part and you were bluffing your candy-a$$ off, but I'll leave that up to the forum to make that decision.


Show me one thing on here that I said as advice to Rich that is incorrect? Please enlighten me....Dunno, but you threw so much stuff that I doubt he's too clear on anything.


Once again you are just bitter because you are being schooled by someone younger than yourself. Just face that fact that you were not giving all the correct information.Bitter? No. I gave correct info and you're the only one who is too arrogant and stubborn to admit it. You really should get out of that damp, dark cellar some time and get some sunlight. It might do your attitude some good. You just might even make a friend or two. Miracles DO happen.

I just love taking an arrogant newbie who think they are G-D's gift to this hobby and rubbing their faces in their own verbal excrement. You've been a sterling example.

And, as far as "proving you wrong". there's no need. It's here for all to see where you lied and tried put words in my mouth. No, there's nothing for me to prove. You've done it for me.

Thanks for playing. You're the weakest link.

How's it feel to hit rock bottom in front of the whole forum?

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 05:30 PM
Bwahahaha. You're kiddng, right? You know what that means, doncha?

Well, by implying that one /needs a DVD-Audio player to extract DD and DTS soundtracks is dead wrong, yet you tried to pass that off as justification for needing a DVD-Audio player. Actually, I'm pretty sure that was ignorance on your part and you were bluffing your candy-a$$ off, but I'll leave that up to the forum to make that decision.

Dunno, but you threw so much stuff that I doubt he's too clear on anything.

Bitter? No. I just love taking an arrogant newbie who think they are G-D's gift to this hobby and rubbing their faces in their own verbal excrement. You've been a sterling example.

And, as far as "proving you wrong". there for all to see where you lied and tried put words in my mouth. No, there's nothing for me to prove. You've done it for me.

Thanks for playing. You're the weakest link.

How's it feel to hit rock bottom in front of the whole forum?


Who is a newbie here? I've been on this site well over a year and have nearly as many posts as you do. I have 1000+ with this name and another 800+ with my other name, whcih was retired back in October. I have nearly as many posts here as you do in over 5 years that it took you. I have 7 years of experience in this hobby and while I may not be as old as you...I am hardly a newbie. I think my information provided speaks volumes to that and it's not my fault that you can't handle the information that I gave. Apparently you just can't keep up with my speed.

markw
04-13-2007, 05:47 PM
Who is a newbie here? I've been on this site well over a year and have nearly as many posts as you do.Dude, it's quality, not quantity. You post a lot and say little.

And, for you to attain this number is such a short time simply says that you truly have no life and post here for a sense of self worth. ...must be very, very lonely in that dungeon.

Oh, forget about that suggestion in a previous post about making a friend or two. Somehow, I just don't see that happenin'

And, not only can I can keep up, but sometimes I might even surprise you (like the fact you don't need a DVD-Audio player for DD/DTS, which you seem to be trying to sweep under the rug) but sometimes you just talk to hear yourself talk. Heck, you've made it plainly obvious you don't even bother to read what others post.
One thing about us old farts. We're not out to dazzle anyone with tons and tons of words to show how smart we are.. We just answer the questions as simply andas accurately as possible.

Now, about those words you put in my mouth? Prove I said them Quit trying to squirm out of this. Be a man.and either put up or shut up.

(Jeez, a 27 year old who isn't man enough to owe up to his words. must be sumpin' in the water in west PA)

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 05:53 PM
Now, about those words you put in my mouth? Prove I said them Put up or shut up.

I don't need to shut up. Rich is taking my advice and when his player is working like a champ than all is done. I'll let me advice do the talking.

The reason I post alot is because I have to keep people like yourself in check. You keep babbling on and on and on about nothing. You can't accept your mistake. Why did you have to do research before bringing up the DVD players playing DVD-Audio for DTS or DD...why didn't you bring that up initially?

I'm done fighting with you, you are worthless to fight with. You think that everyone on here sees my mistakes??? Ha. You are the one looking like a fool.

Rich-n-Texas
04-13-2007, 06:01 PM
Okay, the changer has no disks in it, and I just pressed the "setup" button on the remote. I've got five headings: "Disc", "Video", "Audio", "Display" and "Others".

Assuming the Disc menu, which contains irrelevant settings: Audio language, subtitle... etc, the next item: Video, contains TV Aspect = 16:9; Progressive out (component) = Enable; TV Type = Projection; Time delay, Still mode and Black level control; Audio, contains PCM Dig Out = up to 96KHz; Dolby Digital = Bitstream; DTS Digital Surround = Bitstream; Dynamic Range Comp = off; Audio During Search = on; Speaker Setting which is where you can run the white noise test. Next item: Display has irrelevant options (Menu lang...etc.) The Others item has settings to dim the display, Auto Power off, QUICK SETUP and re-init.

So, there doesn't seem to be a setting to tell the changer to be in either DVD-A mode or DVD-V mode. When I install the Queensryche: Empire disk, which is labelled with: Advanced Resolution Surround, Advance Resolution Stereo, and DVD-Video Compatable Dolby Digital capabilities, the changer goes haywire. It, as far as I can tell goes into play mode, but I'm sometimes unable to even stop it from doing whatever it's doing. I see the same indicators lit on the changer as I did previously and the same crazy flashing of rectangles on the TV. I can go into the setup menu again, and I can now press the Audio button, at which point I see this: Audio 1 (1) = 1 PPCM 96KHz 24bit 6 channel. And that brings me back to my first post. Pressing Play does nothing and pressing Stop sometimes stops the DVD and sometimes it doesn't. When that's the case I have to power off the player, and wait longer than normal for it to shut off.

Alotta text here, hope y'all are able to follow along, and I didn't check spelling either. :)

Rich-n-Texas
04-13-2007, 06:10 PM
BTW, because of you guys, the ice melted in my wine glass so I now have to dump some very diluted and expensive Sherry.

Thanks alot...

Jerks.

Edit: Mods, please don't delete this thread! I think we're getting close to an answer! :cornut:

markw
04-13-2007, 07:42 PM
Why did you have to do research before bringing up the DVD players playing DVD-Audio for DTS or DD...why didn't you bring that up initially?There was no need to bring that up until you imlied that only a DVD-Audio player could extract the DD/DTS tracks off of a DVD-Audio disc.

I guess you didn't you know that. If you did, I don't think you would have been that stupid to blurt it out trying to make me look the fool.

And, knowing your style now, I decided to take a pro-active stance and post link to shut you up before you got started.

Don't think I tell everyone everything I know. There's no need to and ibesides, it would take longer than you've been alive. I'm not the one trying to impress anyone with tons of words that may or may not be relevant to the matter at hand.

I just chime in with what's needed to get the job done as painlessly as possible.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 08:22 PM
Okay, the changer has no disks in it, and I just pressed the "setup" button on the remote. I've got five headings: "Disc", "Video", "Audio", "Display" and "Others".

Assuming the Disc menu, which contains irrelevant settings: Audio language, subtitle... etc, the next item: Video, contains TV Aspect = 16:9; Progressive out (component) = Enable; TV Type = Projection; Time delay, Still mode and Black level control; Audio, contains PCM Dig Out = up to 96KHz; Dolby Digital = Bitstream; DTS Digital Surround = Bitstream; Dynamic Range Comp = off; Audio During Search = on; Speaker Setting which is where you can run the white noise test. Next item: Display has irrelevant options (Menu lang...etc.) The Others item has settings to dim the display, Auto Power off, QUICK SETUP and re-init.

So, there doesn't seem to be a setting to tell the changer to be in either DVD-A mode or DVD-V mode. When I install the Queensryche: Empire disk, which is labelled with: Advanced Resolution Surround, Advance Resolution Stereo, and DVD-Video Compatable Dolby Digital capabilities, the changer goes haywire. It, as far as I can tell goes into play mode, but I'm sometimes unable to even stop it from doing whatever it's doing. I see the same indicators lit on the changer as I did previously and the same crazy flashing of rectangles on the TV. I can go into the setup menu again, and I can now press the Audio button, at which point I see this: Audio 1 (1) = 1 PPCM 96KHz 24bit 6 channel. And that brings me back to my first post. Pressing Play does nothing and pressing Stop sometimes stops the DVD and sometimes it doesn't. When that's the case I have to power off the player, and wait longer than normal for it to shut off.

Alotta text here, hope y'all are able to follow along, and I didn't check spelling either. :)

Once you have the connections let's see what happens. I'll check tomorrow to see if you post anything or just PM me with questions like before. That way NO ONE ELSE can chime in with inaccuracies.

JeffKnob
04-13-2007, 08:28 PM
I could play my DVD-Audio discs on my old DVD player but I purchased a DVD player that supported DVD-Audio so I could get the quality I was supposed to get out of that disc. Who in their right mind would listen to the DTS/DD track when you can listen to the actual DVD-Audio content? You can't say the DTS/DD sound better because if it did, no one would by a DVD-Audio capable player.

I am definitely with mark on this one.

PeruvianSkies
04-13-2007, 09:13 PM
I could play my DVD-Audio discs on my old DVD player but I purchased a DVD player that supported DVD-Audio so I could get the quality I was supposed to get out of that disc. Who in their right mind would listen to the DTS/DD track when you can listen to the actual DVD-Audio content? You can't say the DTS/DD sound better because if it did, no one would by a DVD-Audio capable player.

I am definitely with mark on this one.

I never said that DTS or DD sounded better than MLP....I am a bigger fan of DTS than DD and I prefer (note: prefer) DTS over MLP. I like the thickness of DTS instead of MLP. You can read this earlier in the post where I state this as well.

jvc
04-13-2007, 09:34 PM
LOL.............. I just have to get in here. I definitely agree with markw also. Everyone, except maybe one person here, knows that when you say DVD-A or DVD-Audio, you're talking about the high resolution tracks (MLP) on the disc. Just like everyone knows when you say PC, you're talking about a Windows based computer, and not a Mac, even though a Mac is technically a PC (personal computer) also.

When you need a bandage for your finger, you ask for a Band-Aid, even though there are many brands. Or when you need a facial tissue, to blow your nose, you ask for a Kleenex, and not for a Puffs. DVD-A and DVD-Audio, have become synonymous, with the High Resolution 5.1 or 2.0 tracks on the disc, which cannot be played with a digital coax or optical cable. Those that want to listen to the DD or DTS tracks, will buy a concert dvd, and not a DVD-Audio disc.

Rich-n-Texas.............
Did you buy the DVD-A for high resolution 5.1/ 2.0 sound (that most people rave about), or for DD/DTS tracks?
To listen to the high resolution 5.1 surround tracks, of a DVD-A music disc, you must have the 6 analog (5.1) cables, hooked up from the dvd player to the receiver. Then you must use the "Multi-Channel" mode (on Denon receivers, it's the "EXT. IN" mode), instead of the dvd mode, to hear them. I know that for a while, Panasonic played DVD-A discs, in 2-channel only. But I think they finally added the ability for 5.1 surround, for the high res tracks. Panasonic did not support SACD at all. Have they started playing them now?

Lots of people have bought DVD-A discs, without reading the package, taking it for granted that it was high res, 5.1 surround and found the disc was only 2-channel for the high res. You need to read the package. It will tell you if it's a multi-channel or 2-channel recording.
Good luck with it.............

kelsci
04-14-2007, 04:13 AM
I went to the pansonic website and downloaded the manual. I did not find it too clear myself, but it appears that this unit will playback dvd-a audio. You do have 5.1 channel outputs on this unit that must be connected to the 5.1 channel inputs of your receiver.

This unit has built in bass management that needs to be set-up to playback dvd-a 5.1.

It appears that you do this: On remote; hit DISC MENU. DVD-A should be one of the choices to pick.

The SET-UP appears on pages 12 and 13 of the manual. Secect TAB-AUDIO, then select MULTI-CHANNEL; the bass management menu should appear. Hopefully, this helps.

Rich-n-Texas
04-14-2007, 09:08 AM
Note: I have the uncanny ability to make things more confusing and complicated than they need to be, witnessed by markw's false mistake. It doesn't even have to be obvious.

3 pages, a lot of arguing and personal attacks later... I rest my case.

First off, I very much appreciate all the help I've gotten up to this point, especially from Mark & PS, both online and off line. I apoligize for the fact that I caused bad blood between you two by not clearly stating my objective from the outset.

I want to be able to sit in my living room and listen to a studio recorded DVD and hear the same sound as if I were watching a movie with 5.1 surround sound. I'd like to be able to close my eyes and feel like the band, in this case Queensryche is in the room playing with amps blazing. I'd also like to take advantage as much as possible of my speaker setup which I think is a pretty good one. I want to utilize the "Natural Sound" capabilities of my receiver to give me a clear image of the instruments playing.

One problem I'm having right now is that I can't seem to wrap my brain around all the DSP sound fields my receiver is capable of producing, the miriad of encoding/decoding formats, all of the options for playback on my DVD changer, and all of these acronyms in general that I'm being slammed with. I thought I knew a thing or two about stereo systems and audio in general, but that was a long time ago, and MY how things have changed.

My original intention when I first bought this machine was to be able to throw anything at it and it would play it. For me, at that time, "anything" meant music CD's, CD-R's, CD-RW's, and MP3's. It worked fine for that purpose. When I read some of the discussions here about formats like SACD, DVD-A, HDCD and the increased resolution and/or soundfield capabilities (don't even know if I'm saying that right) these formats provided, I said to myself, oh, my DVD player can play DVD-A AND HDCD. I opened up the manual but ended up being completely confused by it's crossword puzzle for rocket scientists type layout, so that's what brought me to this post.

I'll continue on and address the questions and suggestions from y'all separately, but I just wanted to try to clear some of the confusion up here. -Rich

PeruvianSkies
04-14-2007, 09:17 AM
3 pages, a lot of arguing and personal attacks later... I rest my case.

First off, I very much appreciate all the help I've gotten up to this point, especially from Mark & PS, both online and off line. I apoligize for the fact that I caused bad blood between you two by not clearly stating my objective from the outset.

I want to be able to sit in my living room and listen to a studio recorded DVD and hear the same sound as if I were watching a movie with 5.1 surround sound. I'd like to be able to close my eyes and feel like the band, in this case Queensryche is in the room playing with amps blazing. I'd also like to take advantage as much as possible of my speaker setup which I think is a pretty good one. I want to utilize the "Natural Sound" capabilities of my receiver to give me a clear image of the instruments playing.

One problem I'm having right now is that I can't seem to wrap my brain around all the DSP sound fields my receiver is capable of producing, the miriad of encoding/decoding formats, all of the options for playback on my DVD changer, and all of these acronyms in general that I'm being slammed with. I thought I knew a thing or two about stereo systems and audio in general, but that was a long time ago, and MY how things have changed.

My original intention when I first bought this machine was to be able to throw anything at it and it would play it. For me, at that time, "anything" meant music CD's, CD-R's, CD-RW's, and MP3's. It worked fine for that purpose. When I read some of the discussions here about formats like SACD, DVD-A, HDCD and the increased resolution and/or soundfield capabilities (don't even know if I'm saying that right) these formats provided, I said to myself, oh, my DVD player can play DVD-A AND HDCD. I opened up the manual but ended up being completely confused by it's crossword puzzle for rocket scientists type layout, so that's what brought me to this post.

I'll continue on and address the questions and suggestions from y'all separately, but I just wanted to try to clear some of the confusion up here. -Rich

Rich...how is the progress going? Were you able to make all of your connections and test some things out? Please let us know. Also, you are not the cause of bad blood here, this goes back to last week's thread about IS 10YRS OLD TOO EARLY TO DIE? So, don't sweat it. The funny thing is that I am not disagreeing with anyone here over why people buy a DVD-A machine. I think that most people buy a DVD player and then later realize that they can use it for DVD-A. It's not like that many people out there are buying DVD-A's anyway as the market for them is incredibly low.

MLP and DTS are different formats for audio and some prefer one over the other. While I can play both, I find myself enjoying the DTS option much more. Anyway, keep us posted with your results and be as detailed as possible so we can get you online with this experience.

kelsci
04-14-2007, 09:23 AM
As Peruvian Skies and my last post suggested, is to make those connections. I want you to switch your receiver into the 5.1 input mode. Put a 5.1 DVD-A disc into the machine and see what it does. Then let us know what you heard. Theoretically, if you are hearing 5.1 discreet musical surround sound, it would present a stereo-surround field to you similar to a D.D or DTS 5.1 movie dvd.

markw
04-14-2007, 10:08 AM
Also, you are not the cause of bad blood here, this goes back to last week's thread about IS 10YRS OLD TOO EARLY TO DIE? So, don't sweat it.

Gee, I guess you took offense to my post encouraging you in post 13 which would have been considered an olive branch by any sane person and, at most ignored it.

But no, you start in with an attempted attack on me. Nice guy.

..and you wonder why I made you, or should I say, helped you, look the fool and publicly exposed you as either a liar, ignorant, or possibly both?

Rather than move on from that laserdisc fiasco, on post 17 you start with that pedantic BS about not needing the analog cables for "DVD-Audio" (in any sane person's parlance) just to try to make me look wrong, which obviously was not the case. As comments have shown. several other people knew you were blowing it out your, well, you know.

You've got serious self-esteem problems, kid. Get help.

PeruvianSkies
04-14-2007, 11:20 AM
1. DVD-Audio can be played on ANY machine that is a DVD player.
2. By the word "played" that simply means you can access some portion of the DVD-Audio, which would be DD or DTS material.
3. All players with decoders can decode either the DD or DTS mixes from a DVD-Audio disc.
4. Only DVD players with 5.1 analog jack outputs are capable of also playing the MLP (Advanced Resolution) portions of DVD-Audio discs.
5. Kleenex's are indeed tissues.
6. Tissues are NOT all Kleenex


Rich is a newbie to the world of DVD-A by his own words and was looking for help. Clouding the facts above is where this entire debate began. I personally do not think it's wise to say that "you need analog jacks to play DVD-Audio discs" and therefore you should have provided more clarity on the issue, if it were someone who knew alot of DVD-Audio than maybe that would be different.

To state that people buy DVD-Audio machines for playing MLP is partially true, some people (even with MLP capabilities) still prefer the DTS counterparts. There are also a handful of titles out there that on the outside look like any normal DVD-Audio title, but are actually DTS-CD's, like this one, which contains NO MLP mix.....

http://images.bol.de/images-adb/70/e9/70e9a0b1-a161-4dd4-ae4d-f141f0af70f2.jpg

I am quite tired of going back and forth on this issue. I have defending my position on the matter, stated all the facts that I can, and have tried to help the orginal poster as much as I can. I also can't help the fact that I pointed out another persons mistake, as little or as big as it may have been, that is not the issue. I simply corrected and attempted to clarify the issue. Some people just have a hard time being corrected.

markw
04-14-2007, 11:43 AM
Some people just have a hard time being corrected.Speaking for yourself, I assume. That, and you can't let go. This thread stands as a testament to that.

It's obvious to everyone here, except you ,that the only pertenent issue for BnT was #4, yet you insisted on clouding the issue with your verbose postings that, so far, hasn't done a damn thing to solve his problem. All they did was engage me in a pissing match, which you were incapable of winning when forced to stick to the facts. You had to try to resort to twisting words and lying and, as you can see, not too many people bought into that.

Get a life. This forum is your only source of self esteem. I guess that's why it's so important that you feel the need to try to convince yourself that you're right. Face it, the only one who buys that is you.

If you can read this thread and honestly deny that, then you've got serious issues. Now, get a kleenex (or a tissue, whatever), dry your eyes and seek help.

Maybe you should just change your name to "The Black Knight"?

Rich-n-Texas
04-14-2007, 11:47 AM
Made the connections, switched the receiver into Multi Ch Input, and the receiver shows no indication that anything is present at the 5.1 analog inputs. No sound, and the TV still goes back and forth with the screen flashing, going blank, and then back to the DVD logo. When I closed the tray on the changer and selected the spot where the DVD audio disk is, the player starts playing and GRP 1 is indicated on the display. When I hit the stop button, the DVD goes into what looks to be *stop but don't lose your place mode*, but when I hit the stop button again, the player just locks up. Won't accept remote commands and won't accept front panel commands. I have to shut the unit off. This tells me that the player, even though it's reading the disk, still doesn't know what to do with it. Also, there is no option in the "Others" menu to select to play DVD audio/video and I changed both decoder settings from bitstream to PCM.

I'm going to wipe the disk with a damp soft cloth and try again, but I really think this is either a bad DVD disk, or maybe there's some kind of software upgrade for the F87 that I'm not aware of that needs to be installed.

Rich-n-Texas
04-14-2007, 11:48 AM
As my dearly beloved Mom (God rest her soul) used to say, fight nice kids.

PeruvianSkies
04-14-2007, 11:50 AM
Made the connections, switched the receiver into Multi Ch Input, and the receiver shows no indication that anything is present at the 5.1 analog inputs. No sound, and the TV still goes back and forth with the screen flashing, going blank, and then back to the DVD logo. When I closed the tray on the changer and selected the spot where the DVD audio disk is, the player starts playing and GRP 1 is indicated on the display. When I hit the stop button, the DVD goes into what looks to be *stop but don't lose your place mode*, but when I hit the stop button again, the player just locks up. Won't accept remote commands and won't accept front panel commands. I have to shut the unit off. This tells me that the player, even though it's reading the disk, still doesn't know what to do with it. Also, there is no option in the "Others" menu to select to play DVD audio/video and I changed both decoder settings from bitstream to PCM.

I'm going to wipe the disk with a damp soft cloth and try again, but I really think this is either a bad DVD disk, or maybe there's some kind of software upgrade for the F87 that I'm not aware of that needs to be installed.

I had a few similar issues with a few DVD-A as well, in fact I had to return QUEEN's THE GAME a total of 3 times before finally getting a copy that would cooperate. Like your issues it would do things on it's own, it wouldn't allow me to access certain portions and I just kept exchanging it until I got one that worked. It could have been a bad batch. I would at least try another one before giving up all hope.

markw
04-14-2007, 11:56 AM
Made the connections, switched the receiver into Multi Ch Input, and the receiver shows no indication that anything is present at the 5.1 analog inputs. No sound, and the TV still goes back and forth with the screen flashing, going blank, and then back to the DVD logo. When I closed the tray on the changer and selected the spot where the DVD audio disk is, the player starts playing and GRP 1 is indicated on the display. When I hit the stop button, the DVD goes into what looks to be *stop but don't lose your place mode*, but when I hit the stop button again, the player just locks up. Won't accept remote commands and won't accept front panel commands. I have to shut the unit off. This tells me that the player, even though it's reading the disk, still doesn't know what to do with it. Also, there is no option in the "Others" menu to select to play DVD audio/video and I changed both decoder settings from bitstream to PCM.

I'm going to wipe the disk with a damp soft cloth and try again, but I really think this is either a bad DVD disk, or maybe there's some kind of software upgrade for the F87 that I'm not aware of that needs to be installed.It's about time to do some logical troubleshooting instead of jumping all over the place.

First off, let's make sure the unit is working properly.

Can I/we assume that this unit works correctly when playing a regular (in a sane person's context of that word) known working 5.1 DD DVD through a coaxial/toslink feed to your receiver, and the output is set to "bitstream"?

If not, let's go back to ground zero before giving up hope. By kerfutzing around with all these menus/options, who knows what it's currently doing. RTFM for a "restore" function to, uh..., restore all settings back to what they were when shipped form the factory.

Once this functionality is verified, we'll try to get fancy.

kexodusc
04-14-2007, 12:32 PM
Rich, could you just humor me and try something? Disconnect the digital cable you use to connect the player to receiver, flip the settings on the DVD from Bitstream to PCM for whatever options you can (ie dolby, dts or whatever) and see if that works.
I played with a Panny not too long ago (maybe 2 years now, different model) that would only work well with analog cables OR digital cables used, but not both. Kind of a pain, but no biggy, I don't know why they did it that way.
If that doesn't work. I'm with Markw, we should start logically troubleshooting.

Rich-n-Texas
04-14-2007, 12:34 PM
You can't rent DVD audios can ya?

Yes, I made sure the unit would play DVD movies, concert videos and CD's just to be certain the player wasn't broke. The only settings that are different from the long list I posted earlier were the two bitstream to PCM changes. Why am I not seeing the DVD -Audio/video choice selection in the "Others" menu?

Rich-n-Texas
04-14-2007, 12:44 PM
Rich, could you just humor me and try something? Disconnect the digital cable you use to connect the player to receiver, flip the settings on the DVD from Bitstream to PCM for whatever options you can (ie dolby, dts or whatever) and see if that works.
I played with a Panny not too long ago (maybe 2 years now, different model) that would only work well with analog cables OR digital cables used, but not both. Kind of a pain, but no biggy, I don't know why they did it that way.
If that doesn't work. I'm with Markw, we should start logically troubleshooting.

I tried your suggestion but no change. Keep in mind Kex, I didn't have the analog cables connected until earlier today but this problem has existed since I plugged the DVD in earlier in the week. Whether I'm using bitstream or PCM, the receiver sees nothing at the multi channel input.

Again, why is the player locking up when I try to stop it from playing, or whatever it's doing?

PeruvianSkies
04-14-2007, 12:51 PM
You can't rent DVD audios can ya?

Yes, I made sure the unit would play DVD movies, concert videos and CD's just to be certain the player wasn't broke. The only settings that are different from the long list I posted earlier were the two bitstream to PCM changes. Why am I not seeing the DVD -Audio/video choice selection in the "Others" menu?

Rich, I still have my suspicions about the actualy disc. Especially if it's still not working with all the proper connections AND if it's acting funny. I would see if you can find a DVD-A title at a place like BB or CC to try out, just to see if it plays another disc fine. While you can't rent it, you certainly can return it if it's faulty. If you can play another disc just fine, then you'll know that the one you currently have is faulty. If another one plays funny and or doesn't play than we know it's most likely the player, in which case the player could be problematic.

Sorry to hear about all the mess with this. This is a prime reason why some people just don't have the patience at times with this hobby and the various formats. SACD is much easier to use. Anyway, hang in there and keep us updated.

Rich-n-Texas
04-14-2007, 01:00 PM
Thanks PS. I just "re-initialized the changer. If we get nowhere with this today, I'm going to do like you said and stop at Best Buy and pick up another title.

Meanwhile, I'm going to start the setup again.

Ran Quick setup for the basic settings, and now I'm watching Batman begins. I've got 5.1 into the receiver, and DD Surround Enhanced out to the speakers.

Switched to Multi Ch Input at the receiver and have sound at the left, center and right speakers. Check that, I've got audio at all speakers.

Plugged the DVD-A disk back in, same problem. The machine right now is locked up.

Now playing my homemade Pink Floyd CD through the Multi-channel in, no problems.

markw
04-14-2007, 01:09 PM
As long as youi're going th the store, you might want to consider returning it, if for no other reason than serious human interface problems.

Searching out one of these might make your life a bit easier. It's the "new guy" on the block and so far has garnered many good reviews. Were I in the market now, this would be my choice.

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd.html

Rich-n-Texas
04-14-2007, 01:27 PM
For now I still want the abillity to have one universal player for DVD's and CD's, but if enhanced audio is beyond reach for me, so be it. I'm still going to try another DVD audio before I give up though.

PeruvianSkies
04-14-2007, 01:31 PM
For now I still want the abillity to have one universal player for DVD's and CD's, but if enhanced audio is beyond reach for me, so be it. I'm still going to try another DVD audio before I give up though.

It's a shame that player doesn't handle SACD. This only leads me to believe (since it has those 5.1 outputs) that this machine certainly should do DVD-A (MLP 5.1). The fact that this one disc is not working, yet everything else you play works fine, makes me really question the actual disc.

Let us know if you get a chance to try another one.

markw
04-14-2007, 01:35 PM
For now I still want the abillity to have one universal player for DVD's and CD's, but if enhanced audio is beyond reach for me, so be it. I'm still going to try another DVD audio before I give up though.That Oppo is $150 + shipping and does SACD, DVD-Audio, and upconversion to 720i/1080i (via HDMI) as well.

...might be time for a change, no?

kexodusc
04-14-2007, 01:59 PM
Is there a firmware upgrade for your DVD player?
Could this be a region issue on the DVD? Ie, Pal NTSC, etc? That GRP1 error thing is weird.

How about trying to re-initialize the player? My Toshiba loses it's ability to read DVD-A now and then. I have to hold a few buttons to rest the thing, then it works.

Definitely try another DVD-A though, it it's a region or faulty disc issue, another disc should might play. Otherwise we're going to fight with this DVD player.

kelsci
04-14-2007, 05:02 PM
Rich; the good thing is your getting warmer. You know know that your 5.1 channel audio output connections on the player are working.

Did you just recently buy this DVD-A disc. Perhaps you can return it for an exchange.

If you cannot return it for an exchange, try cleaning the disc. Perhaps some kind of smudge mark is preventing it from working in the player.

One forum member suggested to reintialize. I looked at the manual to see what method they might suggest along these avenues. I did not see anything. In the past at least with receivers, it is suggested to pull out the plug from the wall socket and wait some minutes before plugging back the unit into the wall. I might try this. It is possible you may have to reset your settings since they might not hold in memory.

Of course you can buy a different DVD-A disc to try as even you are suggesting. Make sure it has a dvd-a 5.1 channel track.

Rich-n-Texas
04-14-2007, 05:48 PM
kelsci, I agree. Plus I've now got those connections made. Redundancy is a good thing, and yes, brand new DVD, first DVD audio this changer has seen. I purcahsed this one at CD Universe so I'll see what their refund/exchange policy is.

kex, I don't know, but when I was at Panasonic's website there was a link for software upgrades, but whether or not that applied to my model, I don't know. I didn't hang around to explore it further. It would probably cost a service charge to get it upgraded anyway. If the manual says there's an option under "Other" to set DVD A or V, and I can't see it on my player, that makes me suspicious. But under that same menu there is an option to re-initialize, and I know it did re-init because indicators flashed on the display and the message box on the TV said initialize complete, or something like that. There's nothing on the DVD case that tells me what region encoding it's got but I'm sure I checked to make sure it was Region 0 or 1. Something else I'll talk to CD Universe CS about.

I was surprised to see how inexpensive the Oppo was; it matches up well with my TV so I'll keep that option on the table. I wonder if it comes in black. ;)

I just got The Who's The Kids Are Alright in the mail today, so i'm enjoying some great Who music & video in glorious 5.1 surround sound, so I'll TTYL. :thumbsup:

Rich-n-Texas
04-15-2007, 12:55 PM
I took the Queensryche DVD with me to Best Buy to see if I could get someone in their AV dept. to plug it into one of their players just to see if it would produce any sound whatsoever. It took some explaining to the distiguished looking youngster in the manager? type shirt that I just wanted to play it on any DVD compatible system, but I was finally able to get him to plug it into one of their Denon's in the Magnolia Home Theater (yawn) auditioning room. Well, when he closed the door, the DVD started playing. I heard music out of a couple of speakers (don't know if it was outputing in 5.1 format, but at that point it didn't matter), so that disappointed me. I kindly thanked the young man, walked over to the music section and decided to buy a different title just because I at this point wanted to spend some money. :biggrin5: I picked up Yellow Brick Road and looked at the content chart on the back cover. Listed formats are:
Advanced Resolution Surround Sound (96KHz/24-bit)
Advanced Resolution Stereo (96KHz/24-bit)
DD Surround Sound
Included logos: DVD-Audio, Dolby Digital, MLP Lossless

With great anticipation for a positive outcome, I loaded both DVD's, closed the door and low and behold, I had music! I saw a messgae scroll across the changer's display saying... NO DOWNMIX... but everything seemed good. While I was listening to it at the coax output, it seemed like some of the instruments on the song Funeral for a Friend were missing, but then I switched the receiver to Multi Ch Input and all six puppies started singing. I cranked up the volume, stood in the center of the room and had an orgasm!!! :yikes:

I'm a happy boy.

The only decision I have to make now is do I want to take the chance of exchanging the Empire DVD with another one of the same title from CD Universe, or pick a different title. I'll see what my options are there.

I guess this turns out to be a compatibility problem, so that doesn't give me a lot of confidence with future DVD-A purchases. Best to buy from local retailers for the time being I guess...

Lessons learned: Audioreview Discussion forum is a very helpful and supportive community. :thumbsup:
I know more about 21st century audio than the *kid* at Best Buy, which is scary at best! :eek6:

PeruvianSkies
04-15-2007, 01:55 PM
I took the Queensryche DVD with me to Best Buy to see if I could get someone in their AV dept. to plug it into one of their players just to see if it would produce any sound whatsoever. It took some explaining to the distiguished looking youngster in the manager? type shirt that I just wanted to play it on any DVD compatible system, but I was finally able to get him to plug it into one of their Denon's in the Magnolia Home Theater (yawn) auditioning room. Well, when he closed the door, the DVD started playing. I heard music out of a couple of speakers (don't know if it was outputing in 5.1 format, but at that point it didn't matter), so that disappointed me. I kindly thanked the young man, walked over to the music section and decided to buy a different title just because I at this point wanted to spend some money. :biggrin5: I picked up Yellow Brick Road and looked at the content chart on the back cover. Listed formats are:
Advanced Resolution Surround Sound (96KHz/24-bit)
Advanced Resolution Stereo (96KHz/24-bit)
DD Surround Sound
Included logos: DVD-Audio, Dolby Digital, MLP Lossless

With great anticipation for a positive outcome, I loaded both DVD's, closed the door and low and behold, I had music! I saw a messgae scroll across the changer's display saying... NO DOWNMIX... but everything seemed good. While I was listening to it at the coax output, it seemed like some of the instruments on the song Funeral for a Friend were missing, but then I switched the receiver to Multi Ch Input and all six puppies started singing. I cranked up the volume, stood in the center of the room and had an orgasm!!! :yikes:

I'm a happy boy.

The only decision I have to make now is do I want to take the chance of exchanging the Empire DVD with another one of the same title from CD Universe, or pick a different title. I'll see what my options are there.

I guess this turns out to be a compatibility problem, so that doesn't give me a lot of confidence with future DVD-A purchases. Best to buy from local retailers for the time being I guess...

Lessons learned: Audioreview Discussion forum is a very helpful and supportive community. :thumbsup:
I know more about 21st century audio than the *kid* at Best Buy, which is scary at best! :eek6:

and by the way the SACD of GOODBYE YELLOW BRICK ROAD is far superior to the DVD-A, just in case you wondered and maybe your next player will be SACD compatable.

kelsci
04-15-2007, 10:14 PM
Rich; nothing like chalking up an experience one has with home entertainment electronics.
Thanks for the nice comment about the members who tried to help you out on your problem. Can you imagine the high defintion bubbamintzer going on with televisions, receivers, scaling and the like on a VIDEO side of a problem?

Rich-n-Texas
04-16-2007, 05:03 AM
Rich; nothing like chalking up an experience one has with home entertainment electronics.
Thanks for the nice comment about the members who tried to help you out on your problem. Can you imagine the high defintion bubbamintzer going on with televisions, receivers, scaling and the like on a VIDEO side of a problem?

That's my problem. Too many menus, sub-menus, settings...etc. Choices on the DVD, choices on the DVD changer, choices at the receiver, it's just so confusing. But yeah, the good thing is I can now set up the DVD player forwards, backwards and with my eyes closed. :cornut: I also figured out what that GRP indicator is all about. With this DVD-A, there are six "Groups", and on the remote is a Group button. I can explain in more detail when I'm in front of my system after work, but in a nutshell, one group will execute the playlist in stereo mode, one group will execute in Digital Surround, one group will play the "extras" and so on. Again, more choices than I can wrap my brain around in one sitting. :confused5:

This is exactly the same problem as with my computer. iTunes software has an equalizer with gain control, my sound card has a DSP, and all that goes with it, and my speakers also have a DSP. I have NO idea which one I'm supposed to use for what.:incazzato: