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basite
04-04-2007, 08:32 AM
my 'new' pair of large advents, an A3, to be exact...

http://www.audiokarma.org/gallery/data/2/24047IMG_0237.jpg

As you've probably seen in the photo, they are in a desperate need of some restorations, the cabinets are fine actually, the woofer surround is completely gone, so I'll be ordering some new ones today or tomorrow.
apart from that, I've got no sound out of the right tweeter unless the switch at the back is set to 'extend' I guess (correct me if i'm wrong) that this means that the cap has dried out, so these will also be replaced...

I'm still glad I found them though, these things are really rare here in Belgium...
I could use some guidance for the refoaming though:scratch2:

I'll keep you guys updated...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Bernd
04-04-2007, 08:44 AM
Wel done Bert, on securing these. The cabinets look real nice. Just take your time with the re-furbishment.
Good luck with the project.

Peace

:16:

samgupta
04-04-2007, 08:45 AM
sweet! always cool to get a new project to work on. What kind of amp did you have in the picture?

basite
04-04-2007, 09:31 AM
Thanks, I'll do the best I can to restore the speakers to their former glory :)


@ Samgupta: the left one is a vintage Kenwood KR-730 receiver, currently used as a tuner, the right one is a Denon PMA-700AE integrated.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

JohnMichael
04-04-2007, 10:18 AM
Many companies make surround repair kits but I do not know of any in your corner of the world. Good luck with your project and please post pictures of the progress.

topspeed
04-04-2007, 10:59 AM
Congrats! Great looking speakers from the pics. You may want to post your question in the DIY forum regarding the refoaming project.

Good luck and enjoy your toys!

basite
04-04-2007, 11:12 AM
Many companies make surround repair kits but I do not know of any in your corner of the world. Good luck with your project and please post pictures of the progress.


Yeah, Simplyspeakers seems to be quite known for the advent refoaming kits but I'm going to hear around a little to see if there are companies who make surrounds here...

I'll post pics during the progress...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

matt39
04-04-2007, 03:24 PM
Congratulations on picking up some fine speakers. You might consider doing some searches on AK on refoaming. There are quite a few threads there on the subject and specifically on Advents. Lots of good, practical info. Good Luck.

Feanor
04-05-2007, 02:27 AM
my 'new' pair of large advents, an A3, to be exact...

As you've probably seen in the photo, they are in a desperate need of some restorations, the cabinets are fine actually, the woofer surround is completely gone, so I'll be ordering some new ones today or tomorrow.
apart from that, I've got no sound out of the right tweeter unless the switch at the back is set to 'extend' I guess (correct me if i'm wrong) that this means that the cap has dried out, so these will also be replaced...

I'm still glad I found them though, these things are really rare here in Belgium...
I could use some guidance for the refoaming though:scratch2:

I'll keep you guys updated...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Good for you, Bert. And I'm sure you'll have fun retoring them. I'm sure you let us the details of the project.

Nevertheless I'm remain puzzled by you interest in these relics. Bear in mind I was very interested in hi-fi way, way back when the Advents were brand new. I the time I though they were good, not great. I much preferred the AR5's and subsequently the Braun L710's that I owned back in the day.

But I know there comments won't dampen your enthusiasm, and that certainly isn't my intent, so carry on and enjoy. :thumbsup:

basite
04-05-2007, 03:24 AM
never heard the AR5 or the Braun so I don't know or they sound better than the advents or not. I'm very interested in the Advents because I already have a pair, so that I have a double advent system, which makes them even a better speaker...
I also bought them because they were original, and if i didn't buy them, they most likely ended up at a junkyard or so...

anyways, updates:
I'm done cleaning the woofers so now all the glue and foam is removed, and they are ready to be refoamed. I also took out the crossovers to make it easier to recap them, and the cabinets (although they look fine) are going to be cleaned up and varnish them...

I'll post pics when done...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Feanor
04-05-2007, 07:32 AM
never heard the AR5 or the Braun so I don't know or they sound better than the advents or not. I'm very interested in the Advents because I already have a pair, so that I have a double advent system, which makes them even a better speaker...
I also bought them because they were original, and if i didn't buy them, they most likely ended up at a junkyard or so...

anyways, updates:
I'm done cleaning the woofers so now all the glue and foam is removed, and they are ready to be refoamed. I also took out the crossovers to make it easier to recap them, and the cabinets (although they look fine) are going to be cleaned up and varnish them...

I'll post pics when done...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.


The stacked Advents are a classic, though I've never heard them personally.

I notice the woofers in you first pair look different; will you end up with the same kind in both pairs?

AR5, from Acoustic Research, was the slightly smaller sibling of famous and classic AR3a. The Braun L710 was a very nice three way, acoustic suspension system; it had a dome mid-range as I recall -- but that was a long, long time ago.

basite
04-05-2007, 08:07 AM
yeah, the woofers in the first pair are different, dad replaced them when I was 3 or so, I also found out that they are utter crap compared to the original advent woofers...
they should be replaced once... (with something like a visaton or so, but not now, cuz I don't have another €200 for a pair of woofers...) so then it would be more 'similar' to the original ones, I can't replace them with original woofers anymore because the hole is too small and buying the original woofers will actually cost me more than new woofers anyways (due to shipping and so).
the second pair has the original woofers, which will stay in there...

more updates: I've got new caps!!!

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

E-Stat
04-05-2007, 08:19 AM
my 'new' pair of large advents, an A3, to be exact...
Cool beans, Bert. Be careful to get the proper surrounds. Some are thinner than the originals. I think I might have mentioned to you in a PM about putting foam rings around the tweeters to minimize diffraction. If you can solder, then the next step would be to replace the caps in the crossover.

Good luck on the project!

rw

basite
04-05-2007, 08:39 AM
Caps will be soldered tomorrow, they're not solen as I first wanted to do, instead, I bought a monacor cap and a visaton cap, 13,3F all together, (sorry, couldn't find a 13F cap anywhere) but according to the guy at the shop, it should do fine... all caps are 5% tolerance...

I'm planning to buy the foam directly from Simply speakers, I'll do that tomorrow...
how long should it usually take to ship them here??

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Feanor
04-05-2007, 08:50 AM
Caps will be soldered tomorrow, they're not solen as I first wanted to do, instead, I bought a monacor cap and a visaton cap, 13,3F all together, (sorry, couldn't find a 13F cap anywhere) but according to the guy at the shop, it should do fine... all caps are 5% tolerance...

I'm planning to buy the foam directly from Simply speakers, I'll do that tomorrow...
how long should it usually take to ship them here??

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

A lot people believe that multple caps are better anyway, because multiple, smaller caps respond faster than as single large one. Also, a lot believe in a small cap, (<1 F), in addition to one or more large ones. The theory, according to my crude understanding, is that the small caps permit quicker, cleaner response to higher frequencies.

SlumpBuster
04-05-2007, 08:52 AM
That's a great score with the cabs in that nice condition. Refoaming will be child's play compared to refinishing banged up cabs. So good acquisition.

basite
04-05-2007, 10:24 AM
because photos are so 'in' these days,
Here's a visual update on how things are now...

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/IMG_0250.jpg

how it's going to look real soon, these are only the cabinets, the thing is HUGE, no really, it's *HUGE* :cornut:
my 50kg stands come to their use here...


http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/IMG_0244.jpg

I took out the drivers and crossover because the cabinets are going to be cleaned, to remove the small scratches and dents (there are not much, and they ain't big too)
below the crossovers are the new caps. I already cleaned the woofer entirely (removed all the old glue and rests of old foam).


Keep them spinning,
Bert.

E-Stat
04-05-2007, 11:58 AM
Nevertheless I'm remain puzzled by you interest in these relics.
While never offering the Nth degree of detail, they were always natural sounding reproducers. Updating the crossovers, replacing the wiring, and soldering the internal connections can make meaningful improvements. Stacking them with the upper tweeters inverted offers a couple of synergistic effects: mutual coupling of the tweeters brings the midrange level a little further forward and more neutral, sensitivity is increased by 6 db, and the image size more closely resembles a taller planar.

If you recall, Harry Pearson reviewed them in the very first issue of TAS back in 1973. In the current issue, he responded to a reader's inquiry about them. He recently heard a pair and found them to be much like he recalled from the original review.


Bear in mind I was very interested in hi-fi way, way back when the Advents were brand new. I the time I though they were good, not great. I much preferred the AR5's and subsequently the Braun L710's that I owned back in the day.
Me, too. I bought my first pair in '72 and the second one a year later. Similarly, I replaced them with Braun LV1020s before moving to MG-IIs. The 1020s offered more detail, but in retrospect the double Advents do the critical lower midrange region better.


Also, a lot believe in a small cap, (<1 F), in addition to one or more large ones. The theory, according to my crude understanding, is that the small caps permit quicker, cleaner response to higher frequencies.
Exactly. I replaced the 13 uf NP electrolytics in mine with a 12 uf NP and a 1 uf film cap. The smaller, higher quality cap "bypasses" the high frequencies to offer better resolution.

rw

topspeed
04-05-2007, 04:32 PM
If you recall, Harry Pearson reviewed them in the very first issue of TAS back in 1973. In the current issue, he responded to a reader's inquiry about them. He recently heard a pair and found them to be much like he recalled from the original review.

rw
It's funny you mentioned HP, because that is exactly what I was thinking about when Bert said he was going to stacked Advents. In a past TAS Roundtable discussion, I believe it was regarding the ability to truly recreate a live event (they ultimately decided it was impossible, btw), HP and JV mentioned the magic of Double Advents. I've never heard them myself, but just seeing Bert's pics makes me wish he was stateside!

jrhymeammo
04-05-2007, 06:06 PM
Hey Basite,

Glad to hear the seller accepted your bid
The cabinet looks great. Looks better than the cabinet B&W Signature 805 I used to have(starting to miss them a bit).

Have great fun and take your time as others have already advised.
But get'em bumpin' already:cornut:
Have I mentioned to you that they are HUGE!!!

Peace,

E-Stat
04-05-2007, 06:39 PM
I've never heard them myself, but just seeing Bert's pics makes me wish he was stateside!
Well, if you're ever lost in the middle of Arkansas, look me up. I also have a double pair in my garage. Which probably get a bit more use than the stats upstairs!

rw

basite
04-06-2007, 01:43 AM
The cabinet looks great. Looks better than the cabinet B&W Signature 805 I used to have(starting to miss them a bit).



now that is when you don't look too close...
there are some minor scratches and dents, especially on the top and the bottom, sides are pretty much scratchless :cornut:

they will get a nice cleaning today, removing scratches and dents and then they'll get varnished to have the shiny look again, they'll get slighly lighter in 8color (which is ok, I find them quite dark, they won't get as light as my other pair though...). Today, the caps are going on the crossover too, and I'll be ordering the surrounds in a couple of hours :)
I hope the surrounds arrive somewhere next week...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Bernd
04-08-2007, 12:23 AM
What an interesting thread!:) And a host of great information provided by E-Stat, Feanor, etc. Thanks guys.
I have never heard a stacked pair. I will follow the Advents development with interest.
Any news Bert?
Good luck.

Peace

:16:

basite
04-08-2007, 01:38 AM
ordered the new surrounds, I hope they'll arrive next week, but I think those chances are quite small...

we cleaned the cabinets, and in a few moments, we're going to give them their first layer of colored varnish (color is mahony). I think they need 3-4 layers, so I'll post pics then :)

more updates after the first layer anyways :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

bobsticks
04-08-2007, 06:58 PM
I'm lovin' this thread. Way cool insight into this grouping.

Bert, I gotta say I've got a lot of respect for the amount of effort put into your system and music catalogue. Two thumbs up...more if I had 'em.


Cheers to you

basite
04-09-2007, 12:41 AM
well, the first layer of varnish is on the cabinets...

I must say that I expected the color to be different though...
my goal was to create a color like this one:
http://www.bwspeakers.com/images/SpeakerModel/images/800D/800D_detail_two_large.jpg

this didn't work out that good, but I'll see what we're going to do, maybe we'll buy new varnish that matches better :)

I'll let you guys know :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

basite
04-09-2007, 09:45 AM
I know it's pretty hard to do that...

anyways, I'm going to another store where they have varnish tomorrow, to ask if they have something more similar, the color that's on them now is to brown...

I'll keep you guys updated :)
Bert.

basite
04-10-2007, 10:57 AM
the color:
this is the current color of the advents, this is after the first layer of colored varnish...
http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/IMG_0285.jpg

it's more like the original color, but maybe we will change it to the color I had in mind, this was supposed to be with this varnish, but it turned out to brown-ish...
I hope the color I want actually exists (the B&W color, which isn't that red actually, it's just the photo) if not, then i'll just keep this color...


I'll keep you updated...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

samgupta
04-10-2007, 11:15 AM
Hey Bert--I think that looks really nice...if it's your backup choice at least you have something sweet to go with--it should only get better from there!

basite
04-10-2007, 11:32 AM
thanks, I hope everything turns out good too :)

now let's hope the surrounds arrive somewhere soon...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

basite
04-11-2007, 10:14 AM
another quick update:
here's a pic of the crossovers with the new caps on them:

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/IMG_0292.jpg

hope it's correct :)

then, some non-advent related updates:
I bought myself a knosti disco-antistat cleaner, it does it's thing really good for it's money, so now my 'black shiny discs' shine even harder:)

and some more good news, my CD player finally decided to come back into stock at the distributor, and it should arrive at the shop tomorrow, bad thing is that mom and dad want to do something tomorrow, so I guess i'll be picking it up at sunday.
sunday will also be the day that I'll be hearing the avalon Isis, at the same shop where the cd player comes from :cornut: more updates on that too :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

basite
04-13-2007, 11:05 AM
news: I just received a reply to the mail I sent to simplyspeakers to ask wether the refoam kits were already shipped or not.

they said that the order is being shipped with US mail and that international shippings would take 1 - 3 weeks time :(
good news is that it's free that way :)

anyways, one week has passed, so they should arrive somewhere the next 2 weeks, during that time, I'll have alot of time to rebuild the x-over (maybe, the right tweeter still doesn't work unless the switch is set to extend, the left tweeter does not work when the switch is set to decrease, but does work on 'normal' and 'extend') I'm starting to think that the resistors have kinda broken down, maybe i'll replace them...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Bernd
04-16-2007, 05:38 AM
Hi Bert,

Great to read about the progression of the Advent Project (what a cool name for a band).
Did you get your new CD spinner? And how is it?

Keep us posted. Oh by the way- very often stuff sent fom the US actually gets to us europeans pretty quick.

I have also heard recently the Avalon Isis. Very very nice.:)
Good luck.

Peace

:16:

basite
04-16-2007, 06:33 AM
No cd player yet, but I'm waiting for a call from the guy at the shop to let me know when I'm going to get it, if all is well (which I suppose is) I will get it this thursday, the shop was closed (vacation) the week before this week, so I guess the distributor didn't have any space left in the 'supply truck'...
I'll post updates when I got the call...

Anyways...
the avalon sounded brilliant, it was just "real" so detailed, so very very good.
I also 'auditioned' the wilson audio maxx, driven by very expensive Mac gear...
it also impressed me... :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

basite
04-16-2007, 07:14 AM
Bad news :(

The CD player managed to get lost, which probably happened on it's way to the shop. the guy will call back tomorrow to let me know more, they'll sort it out at the distributor...

I'm so glad I'm a dude with patience...

anyways, those who have a real cd player*,
keep them spinning,
Bert.

*I'll just use my computer a little longer, it sounds dead bright, but at least the cd player will be coming sometimes...

Bernd
04-17-2007, 02:05 AM
Bad luck about the delay.:(
Hopefully the waiting time will pass quickly and the new CDP will sound so much sweeter for it.
Looking forward to seeing the pics.

Peace

:16:

hermanv
04-20-2007, 08:13 AM
Great project. Please double (better yet, triple) the thickness of your turntable shelf, you will thank me.

basite
04-20-2007, 08:49 AM
will do that once, with some real nice wood...

dad bought a multimeter so we can check what's going on on the crossover to see where it's broken (tweeter that doesn't work)...

now, how does the darn thing work... :)

ooh yeah, and the cd player is finally going to arrive with (for sure). the guy at the shop called to the distributor again, and there they didn't have an open order for a marantz cd5001OSE. at the shop, they had enough of it, and ordered a new one which will arrive at wednesday... :)

still no news about the new surrounds, but I'll keep on waiting :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

basite
05-04-2007, 07:25 AM
Look what finally turned up :)

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/the_rings.JPG

4 weeks of waiting, but here they are then :)

I'll refoam the woofers tomorrow,
the outer edges of the surround have to be trimmed a little though ( 1/2 cm or so)...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

JohnMichael
05-04-2007, 07:36 AM
Soon the stacked Advents will be sining sweetly.

basite
05-05-2007, 09:30 AM
The woofers are refoamed now, it went fine I just spilled some adhesive, but it's not a real problem, I'll try to remove the spilled adhesive tomorrow (the one that's on the basket)
I also found out that the resistors on the X-over are broken, so I'll replace them too (that's why the tweeter didn't work), I'll also replace the crossover wires, probably with Kimber 4PR or 4VS

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/IMG_0356.jpg

More pics later :)

the Marantz review is also delayed since the Advents will be finished real soon, so I'll review it together with the marantz

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

E-Stat
05-05-2007, 01:00 PM
The woofers are refoamed now...
Good deal. I recommend using some rope caulk around the woofers to provide an air tight seal. Use separate runs of speaker cable to each pair.

You're getting real close now. The next question will be how you set the tweeter level controls. With my double New Advents (with the steel woofers like your second pair), I run the upper pair on normal and the lowers on decrease. The New Advents sound the same in normal as the originals did in extended.

rw