SACD & DVD-Audio

[John Beresford]

Have these formats "caught on" yet for the most part? I consider myself an audio enthusiast -- not yet on the level of audiophile -- buying brands such as Marantz, Onkyo, and Polk; I have not yet reached the sonic demands made of fans of Conrad Johnson and the like. I purchased a Panasonic DVD player when putting my home theater system together which also plays DVD-Audio discs, thinking I would eventually buy into the format...so far, I have not one DVD-A disc nor have I gotten an itch to buy one. Movies? Sure. I have become a sound junkie --- looking for and buying DVDs with awesome DTS soundtracks and analyzing their entire playback experience through my system each time...but with music, I STILL seem satisfied with standard two channel CDs.

My music listening habits in this hobby may not warrant SACD or DVD-A purchase, either; 99 percent of my listening time (when that DOES occur) is spent making mixed "compilation" CD-Rs on my Marantz DR700 CD recorder from mainly CD singles I put into my Marantz CC67 CD changer -- a lot of my music collection is made up of promotional CD singles of songs I only wanted of THAT single, not an entire album...so would SACD or DVD-A make sense for an enthusiast, not audiophile, such as me? I seem to only crave multichannel discs when they are on DVD and Im watching cinema...not when I reach for a music CD....

[hifitommy]

in order to take full advantage of multi channel (MCH) in hi rez (sacd and dvda) you need the requisite six discrete inputs on your surround pre/pro or surround rcvr.

i dont have that so i listen in stereo which is fine. i DO hear the improved rez offered by sacd and continue to support the format by buying new titles each week (except when i buy the used LPs or dvd music video instead). please note, LP is a hi rez format, just not a digital one.

hi end tubed or ss equip isnt necessary to hear hi rez source material. even linn stated long ago that its the source thats most important.

spending huge amounts of cash isnt necessary either. my discontinued sony ns500v was $161 delivered. the ns755v is less then $250 and has a similar sound, bonus being superior rbcd sound. rbcd is redbook or conventional cd.

sacd sounds wonderful, and they are priced usually about the same as reg CDs, many are hybrid, that is, they can be played on any cdp or sacdp.

sacd retrieves the same relaxed and satisfying sound available on vinyl without the artifacts of vinyl. vinyl otoh is much cheeeeeper used and has infinitely more titles available.

i have begun to enjoy the sound of my rbcds more since i acquired my sacd/dvd/cdp from sony and dvda isnt of interest to me as of now.

if you want to enjoy mch sound from hi rez without dumping big money on mch equip, use your dolby pro logic or DPLII circuits in your current electronics. do NOT think you are listening to hi rez if youre going thru an optical cable. use the analog stereo or discrete outputs to stereo or discrete inputs.

with the reissues, there are some that will tell you that better sound is achieved thru remixmastering (copyright of the sunbeam corp) but they are WRONG. this has been done by unscrupulous rbcd reissuers but i just isnt necessary with sacd.

its not to say remastering or remixing isnt done here, just that dsd (the root encoding system of sacd) reveals more of the original recording be it analog or digital.

so to open your horizons of musical reproduction, sacd may very well be a key to the future. i am known to be cheeeep and i have gone this way. if nothing else, you end with a superior sounding rbcdp.

...regards...tr

[John Beresford]

Tommy,

Thanks for your reply...while I take into consideration the fact that you feel these hi res formats can indeed sound superior to red book CD, I have to ask you something regarding your comments on Pro Logic II...you mention something about "dont think you are listening to hi res if you're going through an optical cable...." My Marantz CC67 CD changer is connected to my Onkyo TX-SR600 receiver via the ANALOG RCA cables (the CD changer's Coax Digital Out is reserved for going directly into my Marantz DR700 CD recorder for digital to digital recordings)....now, can I use the receiver's PRO LOGIC II MUSIC mode with my CD changer connected through the RCA jacks to simulate 5.1 surround from stereo music sources like standard CD? Is this what you are saying? While of course not REAL 5.1 SACD or DVD-Audio surround, can taking stereo encoded standard CDs and running them through a receiver's Pro Logic II Music circuitry create an effect very much like multichannel DVD Audio or SACD?

[Over50]

I was always a 2 channel person and yes I did like dts and dolby digital with some concerts but when I bought the Doobie Brothers, The Captain And Me on dvda I was blown away. I heard things I never heard before. The same goes with Brain Salad Surgery by ELP. Incredible bass and very good highs. Those are just my thoughts. I do like the older stuff on dvda.

[Over50]

Here is the link http://www.dvdboxoffice.com

[John Beresford]

I was always a 2 channel person and yes I did like dts and dolby digital with some concerts but when I bought the Doobie Brothers, The Captain And Me on dvda I was blown away. I heard things I never heard before. The same goes with Brain Salad Surgery by ELP. Incredible bass and very good highs. Those are just my thoughts. I do like the older stuff on dvda.

Hey 50,

Thanks for the reply....funny, those albums you mention, I have BOTH of them on vinyl in very good condition....

For a person like me, though, who enjoys making custom "compilation" CD-Rs of my own, off of different sources like vinyl and CD, would buying into SACD or DVD-A make sense, being that my overall goal is to burn onto a CD-R that's gonna get played in my car player anyway? Most of my stuff I buy on CD single, as I said, and the albums I do have I dont think they even MAKE on SACD that I would want to replace...would this purchase make much sense then? Is there a "master list" of ALL available SACD titles or DVD-A titles online?

[John Beresford]

I was always a 2 channel person and yes I did like dts and dolby digital with some concerts but when I bought the Doobie Brothers, The Captain And Me on dvda I was blown away. I heard things I never heard before. The same goes with Brain Salad Surgery by ELP. Incredible bass and very good highs. Those are just my thoughts. I do like the older stuff on dvda.

Thanks 50,

Funny you mention those two albums; I have them BOTH on vinyl and both are in excellent shape. When the opening riffs of "Long Train Runnin'" from The Captain and Me start playing on the LP, I still get chills.

But for someone like me, do you think multichannel SACD or DVD-A makes sense due to the fact that most of my habits revolve around making "mixed compilation" CD-Rs from sources like vinyl and other CDs, in order to play back in my car? Would SACD or DVD-A make sense in a situation like this? Most of the titles I would like I dont even think are made on SACD; is there a "master list" of all available DVD-Audio and SACD discs online?

[hifitommy]

"is there a "master list" of all available DVD-Audio and SACD discs online?"

uhhhhhh, yeah:

http://sacdinfo.com

try that.

;^)

...regards...tr

[John Beresford]

"is there a "master list" of all available DVD-Audio and SACD discs online?"

uhhhhhh, yeah:

http://sacdinfo.com

try that.

;^)

...regards...tr

Thanks Tommy.

[Geoffcin]

I recently purchased a DVD player that also has DVD-Audio, and it's been a great addition to my HT & Audio system. It's actually the only piece of gear to be shared by both systems. For Audio I use it strictly for 2 channel, as that it the only way to get the 192khz Hi-Rez signal from it. The quality of all the DVD-A's that I have is very good. As good as some of the best redbook CD's. I expect that it will get better, as the engineers get used to mastering for it's incredible potential. I'm torn on whether to get a SACD player now, as I've got a pretty good CD player, and a large collection of CD's too.

On of the great features of DVD-A disks is the added value of having lyrics, and sometimes interviews on the disk along with the music. On the Grateful Dead's "American Beauty" DVD-A disk there's a great interview, with stories that you'd never get off of a regular CD. Also, some bands include a music video on the disk too. On the Corrs "In Blue" DVD-A the've included the Breathless video, along with PICS of the band. (Andrea is really HOT!)

[hifitommy]

"can taking stereo encoded standard CDs and running them through a receiver's Pro Logic II Music circuitry create an effect very much like multichannel DVD Audio or SACD?"

ANY stereo source can be used in DPL to retrieve ambience. DPL is based on the hafler dynaquad circuit with logic added to steer some of the sound for effect. put on a regular stereo music disc and adjust the rear speakers until you just barely hear them while listening to the music with all speakers on.

THEN put on a live recording like dire straits 'on the night'. that should convince you of the effectiveness of this approach.

with sacd or dvda or LP hi rez stereo, surround will be enjoyable in DPL. same for any other stereo source. check it out.

...regards...tr

[John Beresford]

"can taking stereo encoded standard CDs and running them through a receiver's Pro Logic II Music circuitry create an effect very much like multichannel DVD Audio or SACD?"

ANY stereo source can be used in DPL to retrieve ambience. DPL is based on the hafler dynaquad circuit with logic added to steer some of the sound for effect. put on a regular stereo music disc and adjust the rear speakers until you just barely hear them while listening to the music with all speakers on.

THEN put on a live recording like dire straits 'on the night'. that should convince you of the effectiveness of this approach.

with sacd or dvda or LP hi rez stereo, surround will be enjoyable in DPL. same for any other stereo source. check it out.

...regards...tr

Tommy,

I understand what you are saying but I guess what I was asking was, would taking standard issue 2 channel stereo material such as redbook CDs and playing it through Pro Logic II Music circuits (using analog RCA connections as I do to my Marantz 5 disc changer) immitate the MULTICHANNEL SACD or DVD-A experience close enough?

And what do you mean "convince me of the effectiveness of this approach"? Do you mean LIVE stereo CD recordings played back in Pro Logic II Music are very effective in making you believe you are actually THERE at the concert?

And you can actually play stereo SACD and DVD-A through Pro Logic II mode? I guess you can because they're analog connections, and they're stereo in nature, so....

Would STEREO SACD or DVD-A sound better than redbook CDs? Is all this hype about these new formats really true and really worth buying into?

[jeskibuff]

would taking standard issue 2 channel stereo material such as redbook CDs and playing it through Pro Logic II Music circuits (using analog RCA connections as I do to my Marantz 5 disc changer) immitate the MULTICHANNEL SACD or DVD-A experience close enough?
It depends on the recording. Some of the multichannel SACDs & DVD-As I have are nicely recorded and have noticeable separation among the channels. Others have as much impact as a stereo CD played through a synthesized multi-channel surround mode. For the really good recordings, the synthesized route (PL II, etc.) can't compete with the real thing. On Blue Man Group's Audio DVD-A, the cut "PVC IV" has drumwork that rapidly circles around the room. On Pink Floyd's "Time" cut off the "Dark Side of the Moon" SACD, you can pinpoint each individual clock's position in YOUR room! While some synthesized surround modes do an incredible job in deciding where to send portions of the original signal, you just can't beat a well-recorded soundtrack that positions the soundstage with deliberate planning. All PL II and other electronics can do is offer a "best guess". So, will PL II "imitate" SACD or DVD-A "close enough"? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, in my opinion.


Would STEREO SACD or DVD-A sound better than redbook CDs? Is all this hype about these new formats really true and really worth buying into?
I personally think that the care taken in the mixing/recording process has the greatest bearing on the sound quality. I've got some really great sounding rbCDs and a few crappy sounding DVD-As and vice versa. I think the crappy rbCDs were the result of a hasty effort to put saleable product on the shelf. I'm into SACD and DVD-A more for the multi-channel experience than the higher resolution aspect and am hoping for more good titles to hit the shelves soon.

[John Beresford]

It depends on the recording. Some of the multichannel SACDs & DVD-As I have are nicely recorded and have noticeable separation among the channels. Others have as much impact as a stereo CD played through a synthesized multi-channel surround mode. For the really good recordings, the synthesized route (PL II, etc.) can't compete with the real thing. On Blue Man Group's Audio DVD-A, the cut "PVC IV" has drumwork that rapidly circles around the room. On Pink Floyd's "Time" cut off the "Dark Side of the Moon" SACD, you can pinpoint each individual clock's position in YOUR room! While some synthesized surround modes do an incredible job in deciding where to send portions of the original signal, you just can't beat a well-recorded soundtrack that positions the soundstage with deliberate planning. All PL II and other electronics can do is offer a "best guess". So, will PL II "imitate" SACD or DVD-A "close enough"? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, in my opinion.


I personally think that the care taken in the mixing/recording process has the greatest bearing on the sound quality. I've got some really great sounding rbCDs and a few crappy sounding DVD-As and vice versa. I think the crappy rbCDs were the result of a hasty effort to put saleable product on the shelf. I'm into SACD and DVD-A more for the multi-channel experience than the higher resolution aspect and am hoping for more good titles to hit the shelves soon.

Thank you for your thoughts; I, for one, am into DVDs for their surround capabilities at the moment, always looking for titles with DTS soundtracks and the like; I haven't yet been bitten by the multichannel music bug, still purchasing standard stereo CD's and CD singles to record onto my CD recorder.