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PeruvianSkies
04-03-2007, 11:43 PM
Here's something that I've been pondering for quite some time. This site is dedicated to people with a love for audio and video gear, which works in conjunction with being a site for pictures and posting pictures of that gear. So why do the majority of the people in this forum NOT have pictures of their gear in the gallery? To me, it almost seems like a credibility issue. If you are going to post your 'gear list' than I think you should at least take a picture so that the rest of us don't think you're lying. If Florian didn't have pictures, but went on and on and on about his GRANDS, I think most people would think he was full of BS. He backs up what he says with real proof.

So again I ask...why no pictures?

Jimmy C
04-04-2007, 04:05 AM
Here's something that I've been pondering for quite some time. This site is dedicated to people with a love for audio and video gear, which works in conjunction with being a site for pictures and posting pictures of that gear. So why do the majority of the people in this forum NOT have pictures of their gear in the gallery? To me, it almost seems like a credibility issue. If you are going to post your 'gear list' than I think you should at least take a picture so that the rest of us don't think you're lying. If Florian didn't have pictures, but went on and on and on about his GRANDS, I think most people would think he was full of BS. He backs up what he says with real proof.

So again I ask...why no pictures?

...HOW to post a pic! I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out... err, at least with my wife's assistance.

But, I agree - it would be fun to see other set-ups. I've been taking a few photos of gear to sell, maybe I'll finish up the roll with some (humble) system pics.

PeruvianSkies
04-04-2007, 04:14 AM
...HOW to post a pic! I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out... err, at least with my wife's assistance.

But, I agree - it would be fun to see other set-ups. I've been taking a few photos of gear to sell, maybe I'll finish up the roll with some (humble) system pics.

I love seeing what others have accomplished and/or thought of. Sometimes you can gain great ideas from seeing what others have done. It's hard enough to talk about AUDIO stuff without hearing others setups, let alone not being able to see it as well.

Resident Loser
04-04-2007, 04:54 AM
Here's something that I've been pondering for quite some time. This site is dedicated to people with a love for audio and video gear, which works in conjunction with being a site for pictures and posting pictures of that gear. So why do the majority of the people in this forum NOT have pictures of their gear in the gallery? To me, it almost seems like a credibility issue. If you are going to post your 'gear list' than I think you should at least take a picture so that the rest of us don't think you're lying. If Florian didn't have pictures, but went on and on and on about his GRANDS, I think most people would think he was full of BS. He backs up what he says with real proof.

So again I ask...why no pictures?

...first, pictures or no, there are those of us who think Flo is certainly full of something...and that would be of himself...although he seems to be getting a grip on that...and BTW what's to stop anyone from posing at a friend's house or somesuch and having a pic to post...I mean I have a pic of myself at the White House, but that don't mean I'm president! And don't get yer lederhosen in a knot Flo...it's just a f'rinstance...

Many of us don't have digicams...or scanners...or the time...

And what does a pic or two or some laundry list of gear in your sig indicate? Or photos? There is a philosphy that the gear you have is irrelevant...I mean I could go to my local audio salon plunk down $25k and say "outfit me with your best". What does that prove? Probably that I have more money than brains. Much like price vs. performance, it means zippp...

So as far as I'm concerned, you'll have to take me at my word...my speakers are in one room...connected by 50ft/ch of 10ga. to my mostly vintage gear in my custom-built rack with various patch cords connecting some outboard electronics, in the "music room" with a few guitars and keyboards, which is usually in a state unsuitable for public display...nothing to brag about, just off the shelf stuff that I've collected over the last 35 years or so, along with the knowledge and experience to extract quite a bit out of seemingly very little...

jimHJJ(...you know, like any hobbyist does...)

PeruvianSkies
04-04-2007, 05:02 AM
...first, pictures or no, there are those of us who think Flo is certainly full of something...and that would be of himself...although he seems to be getting a grip on that...and BTW what's to stop anyone from posing at a friend's house or somesuch and having a pic to post...I mean I have a pic of myself at the White House, but that don't mean I'm president! And don't get yer lederhosen in a knot Flo...it's just a f'rinstance...

Many of us don't have digicams...or scanners...or the time...

And what does a pic or two or some laundry list of gear in your sig indicate? Or photos? There is a philosphy that the gear you have is irrelevant...I mean I could go to my local audio salon plunk down $25k and say "outfit me with your best". What does that prove? Probably that I have more money than brains. Much like price vs. performance, it means zippp...

So as far as I'm concerned, you'll have to take me at my word...my speakers are in one room...connected by 50ft/ch of 10ga. to my mostly vintage gear in my custom-built rack with various patch cords connecting some outboard electronics, in the "music room" with a few guitars and keyboards, which is usually in a state unsuitable for public display...nothing to brag about, just off the shelf stuff that I've collected over the last 35 years or so, along with the knowledge and experience to extract quite a bit out of seemingly very little...

jimHJJ(...you know, like any hobbyist does...)


Right right right....I gotcha. Actually I don't. If this were soley a website on audio stuff than I might understand, but part of this site is about photos and I think everyone should post pictures of their gear or even other gear, just to have pictures is part of the fun of it. Sure, some might lie about their equipment, but that's not really the point. They could lie about many other things as well.

You can come up with lots of excuses for NOT posting pictures and I could understand if you don't have the camera or the scanner, but nowadays that's stretching it a bit as even most phones can take decent pictures. As far as time is concerned...HAHA. You post dozens of responses and lengthy debates I am sure you could squeeze a few more seconds from your life and grab some shots....It takes all of about 5 seconds.

Photos are not for an ego trip, it's fun to share what you have with others and for others to gain ideas and to share ideas. It would be great if the people on here with so many opinions and 'experience' to maybe demonstate some of that by seeing what you have in your setup, versus the mental picture that we are suppose to assert.

Resident Loser
04-04-2007, 06:48 AM
Right right right....I gotcha. Actually I don't. If this were soley a website on audio stuff than I might understand, but part of this site is about photos and I think everyone should post pictures of their gear or even other gear, just to have pictures is part of the fun of it. Sure, some might lie about their equipment, but that's not really the point. They could lie about many other things as well.

You can come up with lots of excuses for NOT posting pictures and I could understand if you don't have the camera or the scanner, but nowadays that's stretching it a bit as even most phones can take decent pictures. As far as time is concerned...HAHA. You post dozens of responses and lengthy debates I am sure you could squeeze a few more seconds from your life and grab some shots....It takes all of about 5 seconds.

Photos are not for an ego trip, it's fun to share what you have with others and for others to gain ideas and to share ideas. It would be great if the people on here with so many opinions and 'experience' to maybe demonstate some of that by seeing what you have in your setup, versus the mental picture that we are suppose to assert.

...here's one for ya...no cell phone, don't need one, just one single touch-tone telset (no clock, no caller ID, no distinctive ring or call waiting or...) connected to a landline...Don't need to be connected 24/7...I don't think that highly of myself...so no digicam, no scanner...zero...and I have a SONY Hi-Fi VCR and a 19 Magnavox tee-vee...nothing resembling HT...The JVC DVD player was a result of opening a bank account...and then there's my GPX port CDP ($7 after rebate) from Sears and my modded $6 SONY phones from Wal-Mart...Of course my Senn HD-414s and STAX SR-44s do have their place...

The rest of my stuff is an assortment of mfrs. B*I*C, Audio-Technica, Phillips, Stanton, BSR/Heathkit, Lafayette Radio, Pioneer, Onkyo, TEAC, TASCAM, Marantz, SAE, Audio Control, Sound Concepts, Harman Kardon and BOSE...all housed in a "rack" I designed and built myself...again, nothing particularly spectacular, but IMNSHO capable of some spectacular results...best of all, it's all taught me quite a bit over the years...

And yes, I do take the time to post a bit, but I'd rather try to provide info and debunk hype based on my level of experience and common sense rather than on the depth of my pockets or the WOW! factor of my posessions...

jimHJJ(...BTW, I drive a 16-yr. old Jeep, which like my audio gear I maintain myself...like any good hobbyist...)

kexodusc
04-04-2007, 06:57 AM
It would be great if the people on here with so many opinions and 'experience' to maybe demonstate some of that by seeing what you have in your setup, versus the mental picture that we are suppose to assert.
These are just the absolute wrong reasons to post a picture of your equipment.

I've never really given thought to the scenario that some posters might be lying about what gear they own. What would the motive for that be? I'd feel sorry for them if they feel the need to do that because of bad experiences they've had with this, or other audio forums.
I've only known a few individuals in the last 4 years who've ever implied they have X level of knowledge because they own certain gear.

There's a real bad tendency to judge people by the pricetag on their gear. Unfortunately this can lead to newbies taking less than optimal advice.

Experience is demonstrated by the knowledge and help someone provides, not the amount of money they spend or eye-candy they put up for display. I've found the most frugal personalities here to be among the most valuable and experienced contributors.

Feanor
04-04-2007, 07:33 AM
I'm with you, P.S. -- let's see the pics!! Not to show off but because it's fun.

Now if I said this was my system ...

http://ca.geocities.com/w_d_bailey/Mikel_system2.jpeg

... then you would know me for a liar and damned liar at that. :ciappa:

(Better have a look here for that one ...
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html )

Resident Loser
04-04-2007, 08:19 AM
I'm with you, P.S. -- let's see the pics!! Not to show off but because it's fun.

Now if I said this was my system ...

http://ca.geocities.com/w_d_bailey/Mikel_system2.jpeg

... then you would know me for a liar and damned liar at that. :ciappa:

(Better have a look here for that one ...
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html )

...none of it does a thing for me, way too cold and abstract a space...although...sigh...I wish my house was as big as the "audio barn"...

jimHJJ(...there, I'm over it...)

Rock789
04-04-2007, 08:41 AM
:rofl:
yupo, I just picked up my Focal JMLab Utopia Be Grands last weekend...

haha

actually I plan to make some mods this summer, I am slowly working on it, and yes I have actually began working on it...
so when I finish this series of upgrades, I'll have some nice pics :woot:

btw, the smilies I am used to using in different forums don't work here... lol

Carl Reid
04-04-2007, 08:59 AM
These are just the absolute wrong reasons to post a picture of your equipment.

I've never really given thought to the scenario that some posters might be lying about what gear they own. What would the motive for that be? I'd feel sorry for them if they feel the need to do that because of bad experiences they've had with this, or other audio forums.
I've only known a few individuals in the last 4 years who've ever implied they have X level of knowledge because they own certain gear.

There's a real bad tendency to judge people by the pricetag on their gear. Unfortunately this can lead to newbies taking less than optimal advice.

Experience is demonstrated by the knowledge and help someone provides, not the amount of money they spend or eye-candy they put up for display. I've found the most frugal personalities here to be among the most valuable and experienced contributors.

I'll 2nd this point.... having expensive equipment is not a reflection of audio knowledge.... at most it MAY be a reflection of income.... but even that is not guaranteed....

Some of the most knowledgeable members of this forum have relatively humble setups.... and some of the members with very expensive gear.... well, I'll just leave it at that....

I don't mind posting pics for fun, but we shouldn't take pics too seriously.....

kexodusc
04-04-2007, 09:02 AM
I'm with you, P.S. -- let's see the pics!! Not to show off but because it's fun.

Now if I said this was my system ...

http://ca.geocities.com/w_d_bailey/Mikel_system2.jpeg

... then you would know me for a liar and damned liar at that. :ciappa:

(Better have a look here for that one ...
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html )

Who wants to be the guy to follow that act?

Seriously, I'm not against posting pics - just against posting pics under threat of being labelled something or other.

PeruvianSkies
04-04-2007, 09:46 AM
Feanor...you are exempt.

The rest of yinz are totally mis-reading or just not comprehending the point of the matter. I don't think that posting pictures is for show-off factor, but people should be proud of their accomplishments and showing that off in a non-prideful manner is totally cool with me, it should be the same with the rest of you. I think it also gives hope to others who might one day want to have what someone else has and while it's not a good thing to covet what another person has, they should be allowed to aspire to something. Pictures are for fun and enjoyment and I just don't think some of you really 'get' that fact. You all seem to have no problem rambling on and on about this that and the other thing, but it seems odd to me that you can have debates on sound, yet don't have any pictures to show everyone what you are using to justify your cause. Ok, you could post pictures that are fake, sure, but I think most people can call a bluff.

What is also cool about this site is that people who have humble beginnings are still excited to share their photos with everyone and even when they realize that they have work to do in order to meet their goals, they are still showing off what they have. They are not doing it in an arrogant way, but in a fun way. That is why others who see the pictures are usually excited for them. I get excited when people like Bernd has yet another upgraded picture and to see what he is working with. Sometimes it's just nice to see the actual piece of equipment being used instead of a professional manufacturer picture of the component, i'd much rather see it in actual application.

I think some of you take this site way way way too seriously and think that the rest of us are being cocky or stuck up with our pictures, which is just flat out rediculous. There is a photo gallery on this site that should be a cool place for everyone to share photos, encourage one another, and learn from each other. I also think that seeing someones room setup is also a way to help identify who they are as a person and helps gives more of a mental picture with who we are communcating with. Our system helps give us a personality on here, but maybe some of you are afraid of us actually getting to know more about you other than just the opinions you share.

r.j.sanc26
04-04-2007, 09:58 AM
I think posting pics is an issues larger than it should be. There is the credibility issues, pics help justify the advice one may give in these types of venues but then again like previously stated who's to say it's actually that person set-up, but I think most of the people who visit forums such as these can spot when a person is talking out their a$$ and when they've actually got a bit of knowledge and some useful insight to share.

I think I will post some pics, I also enjoy seeing what other people are using, how their rooms are set-up...so on and so forth. One other thing, I think a lot of people get intimidated by some of the signatures, and the galleries that some here poses. I've noticed that there are far more hobbiest audiophiles than true audiophiles in the world and I can see it being kind of disheartening when you post pics of what you think is a quality system, that you spent $5k on only to see the next guy trump you with his $25k plus speakers and his $10k amps...I can kind of see that as a reason might be reluctant to post....maybe.

kexodusc
04-04-2007, 10:02 AM
Feanor...you are exempt.

The rest of yinz are totally mis-reading or just not comprehending the point of the matter. I don't think that posting pictures is for show-off factor, but people should be proud of their accomplishments and showing that off in a non-prideful manner is totally cool with me, it should be the same with the rest of you. I think it also gives hope to others who might one day want to have what someone else has and while it's not a good thing to covet what another person has, they should be allowed to aspire to something. Pictures are for fun and enjoyment and I just don't think some of you really 'get' that fact. You all seem to have no problem rambling on and on about this that and the other thing, but it seems odd to me that you can have debates on sound, yet don't have any pictures to show everyone what you are using to justify your cause. Ok, you could post pictures that are fake, sure, but I think most people can call a bluff.

What is also cool about this site is that people who have humble beginnings are still excited to share their photos with everyone and even when they realize that they have work to do in order to meet their goals, they are still showing off what they have. They are not doing it in an arrogant way, but in a fun way. That is why others who see the pictures are usually excited for them. I get excited when people like Bernd has yet another upgraded picture and to see what he is working with. Sometimes it's just nice to see the actual piece of equipment being used instead of a professional manufacturer picture of the component, i'd much rather see it in actual application.

I think some of you take this site way way way too seriously and think that the rest of us are being cocky or stuck up with our pictures, which is just flat out rediculous. There is a photo gallery on this site that should be a cool place for everyone to share photos, encourage one another, and learn from each other. I also think that seeing someones room setup is also a way to help identify who they are as a person and helps gives more of a mental picture with who we are communcating with. Our system helps give us a personality on here, but maybe some of you are afraid of us actually getting to know more about you other than just the opinions you share.

On these points I'm in 100% agreement with...Pics should be fun and posted by people who want to at their leisure. That's just a very, very different message than
To me, it almost seems like a credibility issue. If you are going to post your 'gear list' than I think you should at least take a picture so that the rest of us don't think you're lying.
which really seems to be a pre-emptive attack or accusation or something more than an encouragement. Can't really accuse us of misreading when you so explicitly made these comments.

gjpham
04-04-2007, 10:10 AM
Ah, what-a-coiincident! I thought about that when I wanted to see ppl's gear but not so many contributed. I tried to attempt once or twice but unsuccess. I love cars, luxury ones and that takes most of my free time; However, this audio world quickly get my attention, so I'll look into it.

Rich-n-Texas
04-04-2007, 10:27 AM
...The rest of my stuff is an assortment of mfrs. B*I*C, Audio-Technica, Phillips, Stanton, BSR/Heathkit, Lafayette Radio, Pioneer, Onkyo, TEAC, TASCAM, Marantz, SAE, Audio Control, Sound Concepts, Harman Kardon and BOSE...all housed in a "rack" I designed and built myself...again, nothing particularly spectacular, but IMNSHO capable of some spectacular results...best of all, it's all taught me quite a bit over the years......

jimHJJ(...BTW, I drive a 16-yr. old Jeep, which like my audio gear I maintain myself...like any good hobbyist...)

B*I*C??? Audio-Technica??? Heathkit??? Lafayette??? Oh My Gosh!!!

I remember ALL of these brands. When I was in high school, my major was Electric shop. That was between 1971 & 75, and I almost bought a Heathkit (build it yourself) stereo amplifier, I think it was. IIRC, B*I*C made record players, Audio-Technica: phono cartridges (still do) and didn't Lafayette get bought out by Tandy corp. way back in the late 70's? BTW, I have an AKAI M9 reel-to-reel recorder with the "original Crossfield 4 Track Recording heads". Whaddaya think of that?!?!? :ciappa:

Your post here jimHJJ just taught me something about you, and that is... you're as old as me!!! :thumbsup: :smilewinkgrin:

Seriously though, I think PS's intention here was an honorable one; it's usually not hard to separate the genuine personalities from the false prophets, and I do plan to post some pictures of my HT as soon as it's complete. Here are my two excuses:

1. My HT room right now is occupied by an 800 lb. pool table, which sits dead center of the living room. My original intention for that room was to have a nice game room, but I soon realized that trying to furnish one is beyond my means.
2. My home computer is in a bad way right now, so I don't have the necessary tools to post up pictures.

In my original sig I mentioned that my B&W's were discontimued but that I didn't care because they were free. I removed that part when it came to me that I may be creating the impression that unlike probably everybody else on this forum, I'm bragging about something that I didn't work for or came into honestly.

[clearing conscience]Make no mistake, I consider myself very fortunate to have been in the right place at the right time when I and my co-workers were requested to clean out an audio device development lab here at work. I believe that when this equipment was offered to me, I took the proper and ethical steps before I brought them home. But having said that, please feel free to reach out and slap me in the event I forget my place.[/clearing conscience] :17: ;)

I spent over an hour the other day looking at pictures of peoples setups mainly to get some ideas about how and what room treatments were applied because I'll probably have LFE & high frequency issues to deal with when all's said and done. I've gotten good advice on that subject from members here, but pictures sometimes make visualizing the advice more clear. The pictures also give me reinforcement about the ideas I already have implemented.

Anyway, this is a very entertaining thread, and I vote to make PS camp counselor!

basite
04-04-2007, 11:38 AM
why just post random pics?
it's just waste of server space, not that i'm against posting pics, but do you have to post pics everytime you move your speaker 0.5 degrees? or everytime you think the lightning changes? No, you don't have to. You post a pic to let people see what you did, like "hey guys, take a look at my new speakers/amp/tt/..." that's worth taking a picture, and then pics will come.

and seriously, there are quite some pics here...

Rock on,
Bert.

SlumpBuster
04-04-2007, 11:59 AM
...I don't think that highly of myself...

but I'd rather try to provide info and debunk hype based on my level of experience and common sense


Those are a little inconsistent. You do think highly enough of yourself to offer advice based on experience. Why disparage people who need cell phones by implying that they think too highly of themselves?

Also, Kex is right. You're not being misinterpretted. Your initial post essentially said "Post pics or you're suspect."

But, in your defense, I do "get" what your saying. It may be a generational thing. Lots of people fake out on the internet. RL may say "Why would anyone lie?" That's the question I asked often about a member of my gaming clan that always refused to get on headset. I don't know why anyone would pretend to be a teenage girl, but I'm pretty sure that person was. Maybe RL's just too much of a grandpa to understand the concerns of the interwebs. :thumbsup:

Accordingly, I'm game. I'll post some picks of my decidedly, not-that-expensive, mid fi rig, then you can decide if i'm suspect or not. :smilewinkgrin:

PS Feanor's chair looks like something you could be "serviced" in. (I know that's not his system)

Feanor
04-04-2007, 12:25 PM
why just post random pics?
it's just waste of server space, not that i'm against posting pics, but do you have to post pics everytime you move your speaker 0.5 degrees? or everytime you think the lightning changes? No, you don't have to. You post a pic to let people see what you did, like "hey guys, take a look at my new speakers/amp/tt/..." that's worth taking a picture, and then pics will come.

and seriously, there are quite some pics here...

Rock on,
Bert.

I post pictures frequently. But in fact 90% are not of my equipment and not even taken by me. A picture can illustrate a point or can be the point: either way pictures are fun.

If a person acquires a component, (bought, borrowed, stolen, or been bequithed), I love to see a picture, (thank you, Bernd). I have taken the liberty on quite few occassions to obtain and post a picture of equipment someone else has got: is that presumptuous of me? (Sinclair, hope you don't think so.)

As for how I get pictures, most aren't from my camera, (so no camera is not an argument). Most I get from the Web. Sometimes I snag them and upload them to this site; sometimes I put them on my own site and link to there; sometimes I link directly to the source website -- whichever seems easier at the moment.

As for the time it takes, I almost never spend 10 minutes looking for a picture and preparing the link or uploading. Most often it's 2-4 minutes minutes and sometimes less if I have the picture or know where to get it directly. Is that too much time for you to spend? If so I understand; it's your judgement entirely.

ericl
04-04-2007, 02:16 PM
Post photos!! Not for PROOF or to show off, but because it's fun to check out other peoples gear! Even the gear of an old curmudgeon like you, RL. :D A lot of us love the old stuff. for a while, my entire system save my TV & DVDP were older than me.. (Thorens TT>>Fisher tube Receiver>>Klipsch Cornwalls) it was great!

it's fun to check out other peoples set ups..

topspeed
04-04-2007, 03:28 PM
I'll start:

http://a763.g.akamai.net/7/763/1644/v002/app.infopia.com/img/image/fp/VPID/2999822/img002/img.jpg

Bangin'!

Rich-n-Texas
04-04-2007, 05:17 PM
That does it. I'm gonna break out my reel-to-reel which'll open a can of whoop-ass on all y'all!

Now where's that dam cell phone.

kexodusc
04-04-2007, 05:18 PM
Nice jalopy, TS...I had an ond Emerson, might have been a Yorx, my mom gave me when I was, oh, 8 or so that looked pretty much just like it.
Come to think of it, I had an Aiwa later on that wasn't too dissimilar as well...me and those old Disney read along story LP's, and a Star Wars of course use to rock out till the we hours of the morning on that...

Rich-n-Texas
04-04-2007, 06:36 PM
Stand back!


http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n286/rich3fan/AkaiM9photo2.jpg

The original Crossfield 4 track recording heads:

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n286/rich3fan/AkaiM9Crossfield.jpg

I found a website a couple of years ago for parts, but the amp isn't in very good shape anymore and the drive mechanism has gotten quite weak.

givendale
04-04-2007, 11:06 PM
It's not pretty but it's functional

2551

Bernd
04-04-2007, 11:42 PM
... I post pictures is only to share with this community. It is actually an extra hassle for me to take the photo, re size it and then post it, as I am a PC midget and never really left the starting blocks. Basic, very basic I would call my PC knowledge.
I am with PS that something visual can help building up a picture of the members on here, even though if one reads what is posted one should get a pretty good idea too.
The last thing on my mind is to brag. I started some 30+ years in this crazy hobby and went through all sorts of systems in my time. I also remove my pictures from the gallery once they're out of date.Can't see the point on having 50+ photos in there.
I really enjoy seeing the picture and reading the enthusiastic posts by Basite. He is moving along nicely.Keep moving Bert.
Another one is Feanor (Bill) whose pictures I enjoy. RL (Jim) paints pictures with words, and I enjoy that very much too.
I also think that every member has a different level that is right for them. And once that is found that's it. It is very easy to make a multi $k system sound good, but a lot harder to work within constrains of any kind and get satisfaction, but it can be had, as John Michael shows regularly. Thanks JM. I also agree that seeing equipment in the members actual use is so much more pleasant to look at than the manufacturers staged shots.
I admire people who build their own this and that as I am completely hopeless with the Soldering Iron.
So I vote for pictures - the more the better.But it should never turn into a duty - that one has to post photos. Just enjoy, and if somebody wants to lie. Let them, in the end they are lying to themselves.

Peace and have a great Easter one and all

:16:

basite
04-04-2007, 11:54 PM
Thanks Bernd, and a great Easter to you too!!

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Resident Loser
04-05-2007, 05:41 AM
...once said to Johnny Carson "Did you ever get the feeling that the whole world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?"

Let's see if I can disabuse some of the participants of an incorrect notion or two, which seem to be snowballing in the wrong direction...

My response to PS's initial post was essentially a two-parter...In response to his posit that not posting pics was somehow linked to a members credibility, I offered a number of reasons why anyone (not necessarily myself, although they do apply) would not, could not or simply won't, post any photos...In addition I supplied what I see as plausible reasons why posting pics is no guarantee of real world experience...Simple statement of fact...no indictment of anyone who choses to do so nor any suggestion that the practice be halted.

The second part beginning with "...so as far as I'm concerned..." pertains to me and my gear...I'm simply downplaying the role that my stuff has on my abilities to render competent advice...When I say this plus this equals this, I don't need much more that the experience gleaned from my motley assortment of stuff to answer most questions or become involved in debate over some subjects...It's like workin' on a car...once you get the basics down, it's pretty much the same for all internal combustion driven vehicles...If someone needs to know how to change their oil-filter, it's pretty much the same from car to car...However, if someone wants to do it on an '67 Alfa-Romeo Pinafore, it would take a bit of specialized knowledge to know you'll need to cut a hole in the passenger-side footwell to do so and I'd be SOL...which is why I rarely attend to much more than the most basic and bleedin' obvious of HT questions. IMO HT is a waste of space...But, I digress...

With regard to the following:

Originally Posted by Resident Loser
...I don't think that highly of myself...

but I'd rather try to provide info and debunk hype based on my level of experience and common sense


...Those are a little inconsistent. You do think highly enough of yourself to offer advice based on experience. Why disparage people who need cell phones by implying that they think too highly of themselves?

First of all...context, context, context...the whole quote, in response to the cell phone camera suggestion, is:


...here's one for ya...no cell phone, don't need one, just one single touch-tone telset (no clock, no caller ID, no distinctive ring or call waiting or...) connected to a landline...Don't need to be connected 24/7...I don't think that highly of myself...

Actually I seem to be disparaging myself...I'm not important enough to annoy fellow diners with idle chit-chat that gets louder at the more impressive parts, like "Oh we're leaving for Europe tomorrow" ...I'm not important enough, nor is my time so valuable, that I must call my wife (who happens to be in another part of the same store) when I can just look around and find her...I'm not important enough to create a captive audience in the men's room to discuss last night's results on American Idol. and I'm certainly not important enough to subject those innocents who surround me with both sides of the "conversation" while using the walkie-talkie feature...I'ze just a reg'lar kinda' guy...I can be incommunicado at no ones peril...

Insofar as offering advice, suggestions or troubleshooting tips to those who post here, it's not that I think highly of myself or refer to myself as some sort of expert (cuz I tain't) it's simply, for the most part, a case of been there, done that (or tried to) so view it as anecdotal twaddle, like just about everything that's posted here...and you can take it or leave it at your discretion.

jimHJJ(...FWIW...)

Bernd
04-05-2007, 05:50 AM
Are you having a bad morning Jim?

Peace

:16:

PeruvianSkies
04-05-2007, 06:13 AM
Are you having a bad morning Jim?

Peace

:16:

I think his morning has lasted for years...

Resident Loser
04-05-2007, 06:31 AM
Are you having a bad morning Jim?

Peace

:16:

...mon frere......looking forward to a three-day weekend, a nice seafood repast on Good Friday and some gayly colored chicken embryos to remind us of the godess Oestre and the rich heritage of our pagan past...can a Maypole be far behind?...

jimHJJ(...absolutely ducky...)

Resident Loser
04-05-2007, 06:43 AM
I think his morning has lasted for years...

...rose-colored glasses...I just calls 'em like I sees 'em...

jimHJJ(...as Disraeli said, "Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for the truth"...)

SlumpBuster
04-05-2007, 08:41 AM
Actually I seem to be disparaging myself...I'm not important enough to annoy fellow diners with idle chit-chat that gets louder at the more impressive parts, like "Oh we're leaving for Europe tomorrow" ...I'm not important enough, nor is my time so valuable, that I must call my wife (who happens to be in another part of the same store) when I can just look around and find her...I'm not important enough to create a captive audience in the men's room to discuss last night's results on American Idol. and I'm certainly not important enough to subject those innocents who surround me with both sides of the "conversation" while using the walkie-talkie feature...I'ze just a reg'lar kinda' guy...I can be incommunicado at no ones peril...

:rolleyes:

You're on shakey ground, and you know it. You know that you are not disparaging yourself, but are instead disparaging those around you that you view as self-important, pop-culture consumin', yuppy trash. Which is not a problem, other than you took Peru to task for disparaging those that dare not post photographs. Don't be backhanded.

When your baggin' on people at least have the balls to acknowledge that your baggin' on people, rather than saying "Well, I really thought I was making fun of myself." You weren't and you know it. Otherwise, your no better than Peru for saying "Post photos or I'm gonna think your all liars," then following it up with a "You guys are misinterpreting me."

topspeed
04-05-2007, 10:18 AM
The reasons I don't have pictures posted:

1) Like Bernd, I'm technically challenged. I'm lucky I can turn these things on. Seriously. I'm an 'ol Nikon SLR kinda guy.

2) I could care less if anybody believes me or not. This is the internet for Pete's sake! What you own doesn't define your level of passion or depth of knowledge. I don't post my gear in my sig, if someone cares they can look up my moniker. Either way makes no difference to me. I do my best to contribute to this board by offering measured, balanced responses and perhaps a bit of levity now and again. My posts are based on my own experiences and information gleaned from this site and others. Some of my posts are good...some not so much.

If someone doesn't believe me because I don't have photographic "proof", trust me I won't loose sleep over it.

E-Stat
04-05-2007, 10:35 AM
There's a real bad tendency to judge people by the pricetag on their gear. Unfortunately this can lead to newbies taking less than optimal advice.
Agreed. For me, it is not about ownership, but exposure and experience. I don't know of anyone who owns a symphony orchestra themselves, but I put more creedence in the opinions of those who have extended exposure to hearing live unamplified music to those who have not.

Before I accepted the position as a moderator (and thus try to be less forward presenting my opinions), I got into a disagreement with a poster over experience. Apparently, he had worked his entire life with television and consumer electronics repair. He had extensive experience with some gear. But zero regarding the topic of discussion. His comments were solely based upon speculation. If the question is automobile performance, I'd rather listen to a guy who has track time with a Modena than a Montana.

rw

E-Stat
04-05-2007, 10:39 AM
...mon frere......some gayly colored chicken embryos
Did you realize (according to USA Today) that the most popular color for said is purple? I didn't know that!

rw

Feanor
04-05-2007, 10:42 AM
Did you realize (according to USA Today) that the most popular color for said is purple? I didn't know that!

rw

It's not green eggs and ham?????

Resident Loser
04-05-2007, 10:44 AM
:rolleyes:

You're on shakey ground, and you know it. You know that you are not disparaging yourself...When your baggin' on people at least have the balls to acknowledge that your baggin' on people, rather than saying "Well, I really thought I was making fun of myself."...

...can't get anything past you can I?...You mean I was being snotty and sarcastic (so WTF else is new?) when I said "I don't think that highly of myself"...Betcha' @$$ I was...but I can still remain incommunicado to no ones' peril...However it was you who took things out of context and aligned my aversion to cell-phones and their users to my ability to take an educated stab at answerin' some audio-related posts...There is no dichotomy, no conflict...the two are mutually exclusive...In fact it was your contextually-challenged post that prompted me to spew a further, rather precise diatribe re: cellular phone users...blatant, unforgiving and bleedin' obvious (or so I thought)...just to prove the point of their total un-relatedness.

If I were mincing words, backtracking or tryin' to weasel out of what I'd already said, do you think pouring verbal gasoline on the fire would have been a covert way of doing so?

jimHJJ(...jumpin' butterballs!!!...)

PeruvianSkies
04-05-2007, 10:53 AM
Wow, this is really turning into an interesting read. I wonder how this epic will end?

E-Stat
04-05-2007, 11:18 AM
It's not green eggs and ham?????
No, not ham for Sam. ;)

rw

kexodusc
04-05-2007, 11:33 AM
Agreed. For me, it is not about ownership, but exposure and experience. I don't know of anyone who owns a symphony orchestra themselves, but I put more creedence in the opinions of those who have extended exposure to hearing live unamplified music to those who have not.


Exposure and experience - good points. There's people whose opinions I really value because of their exposure, guys like Topspeed, Geoffcin (whatever happened to him) know their gear and are fairly unbiased when providing assessments. Experience, well, I take that with a grain of salt. Technical experience I value highly because in my own experience, there's a fantastic correlation between sound quality and sound design based on proven science. Though, it's disappointing when long held beliefs or positions blind people to possibilities. Subjective experience I'm more cautious in accepting - I hear different than other people. And there's too much ego, legend, and snake oil in audio to rely on this kind of experience unless you know the individual's tastes and preference are very much like your own.

Your last comment is something I totally agree with. Except I would further expand that to include amplified music. Just my preference, but I listen to a lot of it. Gear I like is faithful to both, I don't find these two to be mutually exclusive. Though I can appreciate distortion in amplified music can have the effect of masking flaws in lesser equipment.

Good comments!

SlumpBuster
04-05-2007, 12:37 PM
No, RL, I saw your ideas as being related. You don't post photos because you don't own the gadjets to do it. You find those people who own the gadjets to be annoying and believe they think too highly of themselves. Thus, those people that might post pics must think too highly of themselves.

You state that you call them as you see them. But you don't. You use sarcasim to make your venom more palatable. Often times it works. Many times its funny. And, to your credit, your sig generally lets people know where your coming from. But you fail to get as good as you give, which dulls your edge.

If the ideas are truely unrelated as you state, i.e. goofing on yuppies in a post about pics, then I will call it as I see it: That would be a trollish post.

Now excuse me: I have to turn off my Chocolate because my On Star conseirge is calling back with my confirmed dinner and show reservations. And, I have to cut off this tool in traffic ahead of me without looking.

E-Stat
04-05-2007, 03:02 PM
Technical experience I value highly because in my own experience, there's a fantastic correlation between sound quality and sound design based on proven science.
And yet, there is some data that while possible to quantify, is rarely available. Here's but one example. Since my choice of speakers exhibits a highly reactive load, they present a challenge to many amplifiers that can result in audible differences. While one can quantify IV analysis in all four quadrants of an amplifier, conventional testing stands mute on that issue. A dummy resistive load is useless in that regard. Therefore, my choice of amp in that system is necessarily affected by its ability to deal with a reactive load.


Except I would further expand that to include amplified music. Just my preference, but I listen to a lot of it. Gear I like is faithful to both, I don't find these two to be mutually exclusive.
Perhaps I should refine my comments. I, too enjoy and listen to a great deal of amplified pop and jazz/new age music. While I enjoy those genres, the "live" reference of these is usually crippled by ear bleeding levels and a less than optimum presentation. I find most good home audio systems are "better" than live in that respect.

rw

topspeed
04-05-2007, 04:11 PM
Before I accepted the position as a moderator (and thus try to be less forward presenting my opinions), I got into a disagreement with a poster over experience... I don't know if this was one of Eric's requirements, but I disagree with this completely. I value and miss both Geoffcin's and your input on a number of topics. One of the reasons you were appointed as a mod was your level of experience and ability to relay that knowledge with an even hand. The board is a lesser place without that input and I for one would greatly welcome more interaction from the mods.
If the question is automobile performance, I'd rather listen to a guy who has track time with a Modena than a Montana.

rw Not to nit pick, but while your example was good for alliterative purposes, cars are a bad example simply because performance is an objective, not subjective measuring stick. A car (or minivan) goes 0-60 in X seconds, does the quarter in X seconds at X mph, laps the Nordschliefe in X min, X seconds. Audio is almost purely subjective (how else to explain SVI?!?). A person that has track time in a Montana is just as likely to give you good feedback as a person with a Modena. In fact, if he was faster in the Montana, I'd really like to pick his brain! :)

kexodusc
04-05-2007, 04:50 PM
And yet, there is some data that while possible to quantify, is rarely available. Here's but one example. Since my choice of speakers exhibits a highly reactive load, they present a challenge to many amplifiers that can result in audible differences. While one can quantify IV analysis in all four quadrants of an amplifier, conventional testing stands mute on that issue. A dummy resistive load is useless in that regard. Therefore, my choice of amp in that system is necessarily affected by its ability to deal with a reactive load.



Ok, if you say so. That doesn't change the fact I value technical experience based on my observed correlations between sound quality and sound design practices.

If anything I think you've just re-enforced my earlier point - you're selecting an amplifier based on symptoms you've been able to assign to the reactive load of your speakers. If you are absolutely correct in your assessment, then there's some correlation between pleasing sound and amps that don't mind the reactive load. That's more accurate than "I think this can sound better, maybe I need a new amp". You've followed that correlation to a conclusion. That's the kind of experience that blends subjectivity and objectivity that we should see more of.

That's a much more reasoned and calculated process than simply assuming "more power will make those speakers sound better, always".
Too often a person's answer is to throw more money at their system's perceived weak spots. Often they're assessment of a system's weakness is off, and the proposed solution is ineffective at addressing the true weakness. Even worse, they spend their money on an upgrade, and the sound is different, even improved. It's not the optimal upgrade, and the original weakness remains, though the new system sound is better. Voila! - a false cause-and-effect relationship is born. This sage then proceeds to pass his wisdom on to the next budding audiophile. Meanwhile, the most cost-effective, highest yield improvement is overlooked. That's the kind of experience we could use less of.

E-Stat
04-05-2007, 05:14 PM
I don't know if this was one of Eric's requirements, but I disagree with this completely. I value and miss both Geoffcin's and your input on a number of topics. One of the reasons you were appointed as a mod was your level of experience and ability to relay that knowledge with an even hand. The board is a lesser place without that input and I for one would greatly welcome more interaction from the mods.
No, I was not told to "tone down" by anyone - that was my perception of what I should do as moderator. Perhaps I overcompensated. Thank you very much for your comments.


Not to nit pick, but while your example was good for alliterative purposes, cars are a bad example simply because performance is an objective, not subjective measuring stick. A car (or minivan) goes 0-60 in X seconds, does the quarter in X seconds at X mph, laps the Nordschliefe in X min, X seconds....A person that has track time in a Montana is just as likely to give you good feedback as a person with a Modena.
My point is that for someone whose ultimate point of reference is cornering at .68 Gs (with severe understeer), they really cannot appreciate what it is like at .95 Gs. Or what it is like to countersteer a transition from oversteer with the rear end hanging loose. That experience is completely absent. If your point of reference is a system with modest capabilities, then it is impossible to imagine what it like to hear a system with higher resolution. How do you know what you don't know? Further, it takes time to develop one's skill at discerning what those differences are (or driving at a much more spirited pace for that matter).

I was certainly not able to fully absorb all the information presented the first time I heard a truly world class system. Or each time I hear the constantly changing systems of my reviewer friends (and mentors for the past 30 odd years). It takes practice. Lots. Which for me is a lot of fun. Listening has always been an active sport. I tend to be a hyper individual and it is a way to keep my mind busy. It is the enjoyment of discovering something new in the completely familiar.


Audio is almost purely subjective (how else to explain SVI?!?).
I will respectfully disagree. Yes, preferences certainly play a role. The discernment of differences, however, should not. Regarding SVI, our young enthusiast needs some guidance. While I was never, um exactly quite like him, I benefited from several older and wiser audio and music enthusiasts when I was much younger. Exposed me to a completely different world of music and audio gear.

Thanks again for the feedback.

rw

E-Stat
04-05-2007, 05:40 PM
Ok, if you say so. That doesn't change the fact I value technical experience based on my observed correlations between sound quality and sound design practices.
Don't get me wrong - I welcome any and all measurements that correlate to real world performance. Unfortunately, those remain relatively rare with the usual collection of specifications and test results.


If anything I think you've just re-enforced my earlier point - you're selecting an amplifier based on symptoms you've been able to assign to the reactive load of your speakers. If you are absolutely correct in your assessment, then there's some correlation between pleasing sound and amps that don't mind the reactive load. That's more accurate than "I think this can sound better, maybe I need a new amp". You've followed that correlation to a conclusion. That's the kind of experience that blends subjectivity and objectivity that we should see more of.
I'm glad we agree. As a programmer, I inherently like the elegance of math - where it applies.


That's a much more reasoned and calculated process than simply assuming "more power will make those speakers sound better, always".
Too often a person's answer is to throw more money at their system's perceived weak spots. Often they're assessment of a system's weakness is off, and the proposed solution is ineffective at addressing the true weakness.
If nothing else, what I have learned in my long audio journey is that system matching is everything.

rw

Resident Loser
04-09-2007, 06:54 AM
No, RL, I saw your ideas as being related. You don't post photos because you don't own the gadjets to do it. You find those people who own the gadjets to be annoying and believe they think too highly of themselves. Thus, those people that might post pics must think too highly of themselves.

You state that you call them as you see them. But you don't. You use sarcasim to make your venom more palatable. Often times it works. Many times its funny. And, to your credit, your sig generally lets people know where your coming from. But you fail to get as good as you give, which dulls your edge.

If the ideas are truely unrelated as you state, i.e. goofing on yuppies in a post about pics, then I will call it as I see it: That would be a trollish post.

Now excuse me: I have to turn off my Chocolate because my On Star conseirge is calling back with my confirmed dinner and show reservations. And, I have to cut off this tool in traffic ahead of me without looking.

...we can follow this...I don't post pics because in addition to a lack of certain required, but IMO non-essential gadgetry, I chose not to...My response to PS (in respone to his generalized inquiry) gave reasons why some (keep in mind his post gave the impression of a generalized inquiry, there is a reason why I stress this, but read on MacDuff)....and not just myself, might not be able to do so...Bada-bing,,,bada-boom, finito...

Then...as if in some "AHAH!" moment, PS responds, in a way less generalized manner:


...You can come up with lots of excuses for NOT posting pictures and I could understand if you don't have the camera or the scanner, but nowadays that's stretching it a bit as even most phones can take decent pictures...

Firstly, I'm not making excuses...an excuse gives the impression that I must seek some sort of absolution for my Luddite "transgressions"...Again, at this point, I am responding to PS and his generalized (there's that word again) inquiry as to why folks don't or won't post...Prior generalities then become specific...The part that stews my prunes is the absolute astonishment...no, no, make that hubris on his part that someone might not own a cell-phone, particularly with pic cabability...to which I responded in kind with:


...here's one for ya...no cell phone, don't need one, just one single touch-tone telset (no clock, no caller ID, no distinctive ring or call waiting or...) connected to a landline...Don't need to be connected 24/7...I don't think that highly of myself...

I didn't bring up cell-phones...but I sure did respond...Finito redux...

Now for your response...I have no problem with gadgetry...I don't find people who spend their lives at The Sharper Image and like places, buying like wares, annoying...I find folks who have not one wit of common courtesy and/or impinge on innocent bystanders annoying...there's a reason there used to be telephone booths...nobody wants to hear your lame-o commuiques...or your screamin' rugrats (get a sitter)...lessee where that'll go...

Once in a while I find some of the pics of the more esoteric gear, a, er...interesting...Never ending sigs or photos? Well, folks do what they do...Not my cuppa' gov...reminds me of jewelry and horrific amounts of perfume, ostentatious, useless affectation, since much of it is contrived and deliberate. It exhibits itself in the guise of posessions being indicative of some higher level of expertise or somesuch. NOT! Just my POV...Took issue with the egoist ramifications of elaborate sigs w/TtT and others, much like I took issue with JR and his endless "links" most of which were of his own self-promoting device...it's what I do...somebody has to...my raison d'etre...my conceptual continuity...Oh yeah, most do it because they wanna' share...mea culpa...[/I]mea maxima culpa[/I]...(if you're Catholic and of a certain age, you know those phrases).

BTW, I never called anyone yuppy...didn't that term die when "Thirtysomething" passed on?

With regard to your last paragraph, yeah, that's about right...Would that be in a Caddy or Lincoln pick-up? Do you think "high occupancy lane" is really English for auotbahn?

jimHJJ(...sarcasm makes my venom more palatable???...I'll hafta' work on that...BTW, I'm tradin' all my gear for mtrycrafts' boombox, retrofitted with solid silver speaker wires...)

Rock789
04-09-2007, 07:11 AM
If anything I think you've just re-enforced my earlier point - you're selecting an amplifier based on symptoms you've been able to assign to the reactive load of your speakers. If you are absolutely correct in your assessment, then there's some correlation between pleasing sound and amps that don't mind the reactive load.

we need to start getting VAR specs on speakers and VAR capability on amps :rofl:

question, do planar speakers have a capacitive load?
hehe

later
Mike

PeruvianSkies
04-09-2007, 07:23 AM
...we can follow this...I don't post pics because in addition to a lack of certain required, but IMO non-essential gadgetry, I chose not to...My response to PS (in respone to his generalized inquiry) gave reasons why some (keep in mind his post gave the impression of a generalized inquiry, there is a reason why I stress this, but read on MacDuff)....and not just myself, might not be able to do so...Bada-bing,,,bada-boom, finito...

Then...as if in some "AHAH!" moment, PS responds, in a way less generalized manner:



Firstly, I'm not making excuses...an excuse gives the impression that I must seek some sort of absolution for my Luddite "transgressions"...Again, at this point, I am responding to PS and his generalized (there's that word again) inquiry as to why folks don't or won't post...Prior generalities then become specific...The part that stews my prunes is the absolute astonishment...no, no, make that hubris on his part that someone might not own a cell-phone, particularly with pic cabability...to which I responded in kind with:



I didn't bring up cell-phones...but I sure did respond...Finito redux...

Now for your response...I have no problem with gadgetry...I don't find people who spend their lives at The Sharper Image and like places, buying like wares, annoying...I find folks who have not one wit of common courtesy and/or impinge on innocent bystanders annoying...there's a reason there used to be telephone booths...nobody wants to hear your lame-o commuiques...or your screamin' rugrats (get a sitter)...lessee where that'll go...

Once in a while I find some of the pics of the more esoteric gear, a, er...interesting...Never ending sigs or photos? Well, folks do what they do...Not my cuppa' gov...reminds me of jewelry and horrific amounts of perfume, ostentatious, useless affectation, since much of it is contrived and deliberate. It exhibits itself in the guise of posessions being indicative of some higher level of expertise or somesuch. NOT! Just my POV...Took issue with the egoist ramifications of elaborate sigs w/TtT and others, much like I took issue with JR and his endless "links" most of which were of his own self-promoting device...it's what I do...somebody has to...my raison d'etre...my conceptual continuity...Oh yeah, most do it because they wanna' share...mea culpa...[/I]mea maxima culpa[/I]...(if you're Catholic and of a certain age, you know those phrases).

BTW, I never called anyone yuppy...didn't that term die when "Thirtysomething" passed on?

With regard to your last paragraph, yeah, that's about right...Would that be in a Caddy or Lincoln pick-up? Do you think "high occupancy lane" is really English for auotbahn?

jimHJJ(...sarcasm makes my venom more palatable???...I'll hafta' work on that...BTW, I'm tradin' all my gear for mtrycrafts' boombox, retrofitted with solid silver speaker wires...)

It's nearly impossible to understand this jibberish. Not because we are uneducated and can't comprehend your use of complex words and phrases or different languages, but because you say alot and mean very little. What exactly are you trying to say?

It seems to be that you get a little excited over any reason to debate and when you feel attacked, you get defensive. I could care less if you agree with my opinion about posting pictures. I think that most people are in agreement that pictures do serve a purpose and those who cannot back their blabbering are usually the ones to get the most defensive.

You talk on and on and on about your "EXPERIENCE" and yadda yadda yadda, but experience is not everything. It helps, but that's only dependant upon the quality of that experience. I know people that have 30 years experience playing guitar, but are easily blown away by 13 year old kids who have only been playing a few months. That's called talent, raw talent. Some people also have natural talent when it comes to audio as well. They are able to hear and notice things differently and also dedicate more time and energy into perfecting the craft and the ongoing pursuit of achieving better sound reproduction.

You claim that you are not posting pictures because of two reasons: you are not interested in doing so and you don't have the necessary means to do so. Fine. Move on then. Leave this thread alone and let those who have something important to say, since this thread no longer pertains to you. You know people like me and my GENERALIZATIONS.

E-Stat
04-09-2007, 07:28 AM
question, do planar speakers have a capacitive load?

I believe only the electrostatic planars have a significant capacitive component. Ribbon and magnetically based planar flavors like Apogees and Magneplanars offer a nearly resistive load and are easier to drive in that regard. The Apogees, however, with their extremely low impedance offer a different challenge.

rw

Rock789
04-09-2007, 07:33 AM
I believe only the electrostatic planars have a significant capacitive component. Ribbon and magnetically based planar flavors like Apogees and Magneplanars offer a nearly resistive load and are easier to drive in that regard. The Apogees, however, with their extremely low impedance offer a different challenge.

rw
cool
thanks for the info ;o)

Resident Loser
04-09-2007, 11:53 AM
It's nearly impossible to understand...people like me and my GENERALIZATIONS.

...been much easier to understand at the outset, as some posters did. However, you seem to be addressing my posts to SB and he to references to you, further muddying the waters...The linearity is quite simple and easy to follow actually...but let's reduce it even further...

Some do...

Some don't (post pics, that is)...

Some chose not to for various personal reasons...

Some chose not to for lack of proper hardware etc...

I do not on account of both...

Some people don't have cell-phones...Why this is a foreign concept to you is amusing...There are still folks who prefer a manual transmission...

Some who do have them (cell-phones, that is) don't have pic facilities...

Posting of gear pics does not equate to having or not having the abilities to answer audio-related questions correctly...

You only have yourself and your earlier lack of pereception to blame for drawing me further into this thread, which BTW has moved away from the color of Easter eggs and now evolved into a Q&A re: design vs. sound quality and various types of planar drivers...and has very little to do with either one of us...

jimHJJ(...or hadn't you noticed?...)

PeruvianSkies
04-09-2007, 12:57 PM
Resident Loser...

We are not able to understand what you are saying for the simple fact that you are beyond comprehension in most cases. It has nothing to do with semantics or linearity...it simply has to do with the fact that you say alot, yet say very little. You try to be witty and make points, but it's so clouded in obscurity that it's rediculous. You quickly became defensive to the original post because it pertains to yourself...you are a highly active member of this site with loads and loads of opinions, but you do not have any pictures posted. This does not necessarily indicate that you are unable to or that you do not have the equipment or experience to assist others. Your reasons for NOT posting are legit. You have no means to do so, ok fine. Like I said before...move on then. If you have nothing else to offer to this particular thread than move on. However, you simply do not move on from matters of debate and stick around just to get people worked up by your offensive attacks and your sarcasm and cynicism.

For many of us we like posting pictures because we love this hobby and just like someone who is ...a car collector...they have pictures of their cars. If this was a car website that was dedicated to custom cars or classic cars...don't you think that people would want to see pictures? Of course. Pictures help tell the story. It also shows accomplishment/achievement and in many cases it gives credibility to the owner. Usually with any hobby there are people who don't know anything about it (newbies) who are willing to admit that they are in NEED of advice. There are then the opposite who feel that they know EVERYTHING based on certain experience and are never wrong. It would appear that you are one of those...however, the only thing that you have right based on what I have seen here at this site over the course of time is your username....you truly are the RESIDENT LOSER of this site.

E-Stat
04-09-2007, 01:29 PM
I might actually have to perform some work with this thread. So there is a difference of opinion. Big deal.

It does seem that the original question has pretty much run its course with a range of different responses.

rw

powerlord
04-09-2007, 02:28 PM
Here's a new response,I posted my pics not only to brag about the gear I had bought,but maybe to see if I would get any comments on my setup(which I didn't).I am extremely proud of my gear and how I got it,if I could I would have everyone over on this forum to listen to my setup,I think our hobby among others is a competitive one and I have no problem with that.Posting pics to me is bringing all my AV friends into my house and showing off my gear.I love looking at the pics on this forum and i think everyone should try and post pics,it becomes more personal that way.If you move your system around,take pics,I'm interested in how it looks now,if you add a piece let the film roll!

E-Stat
04-09-2007, 03:01 PM
Here's a new response,I posted my pics not only to brag about the gear I had bought,but maybe to see if I would get any comments on my setup(which I didn't).
You're right!

Nice gear, but the cabinet offers some challenges. Ideally, the center channel would be lower. I'm not sure how you can improve upon your current position given the rack design. On the other hand, I would recommend putting some free space between the mains and the cabinet and pulling them a bit forward of the screen. Otherwise, it becomes an extended baffle of the speakers. While that is intended for the small internal speaker, your mains are designed to be in free space. Baffling them changes the tonal balance and the image will suffer. Speak while putting your hands flat against the side of your face just outside your mouth to illustrate my point.

rw

powerlord
04-09-2007, 04:26 PM
Thanks E-Stat,I know my room situation is a mess!LOL! One of these days i'm going to have enough room for a dedicated,until then all I can say is SATURATION!I haven't looked at yours yet,so i'll go to your gallery now.

powerlord
04-09-2007, 08:20 PM
Damn E,are those speakers big enough?I thought mine were on the large size,what are they?The only speakers I've seen that big were in Florians gallery.

givendale
04-10-2007, 01:01 AM
Some where along the line, I think it was the 2nd or 3rd post some people lost the thread of the thread.

I also posted a pic to see if I would get any comments. As with powerlord I got none.

After that I thought I would sit back and watch the s**t-fight develop, it's been a good one so far.

It's a fun hobby that not everyone appreciates, too busy trying to work out how to get their iPods to work.

Sometimes raw debate is good but skilful discussion and dilogue are always better a much more interesting to follow.

E-Stat
04-10-2007, 06:05 AM
Damn E,are those speakers big enough?
:)

They are Sound LAB (http://soundlab-speakers.com/) U-1 electrostats. They are large simply because it takes lots of "sandwich wrap" to produce first octave bass. Unlike the big Apogees, however, they are not capable of 120 db levels with the power I have. I tend to listen in the 70s and 80s with peaks no more than about 90 db. They are low level resolution champs.

I just added a pic of the HT system. NAD T763 receiver, Polk RTi-35 mains, Polk center, Eosone powered subs, Radio Shack rears, Samsung DLP.

rw

Feanor
04-10-2007, 06:11 AM
:)

They are Sound LAB (http://soundlab-speakers.com/) U-1 electrostats. They are large simply because it takes lots of "sandwich wrap" to produce first octave bass. Unlike the big Apogees, however, they are not capable of 120 db levels with the power I have. I tend to listen in the 70s and 80s with peaks no more than about 90 db. They are low level resolution champs.

I just added a pic of the HT system. NAD T763 receiver, Polk RTi-35 mains, Polk center, Eosone powered subs, Radio Shack rears, Samsung DLP.

rw

I'm eating my heart out for a pair of those, but it will never happen.

Rock789
04-10-2007, 06:21 AM
:)

They are Sound LAB (http://soundlab-speakers.com/) U-1 electrostats. They are large simply because it takes lots of "sandwich wrap" to produce first octave bass. Unlike the big Apogees, however, they are not capable of 120 db levels with the power I have. I tend to listen in the 70s and 80s with peaks no more than about 90 db. They are low level resolution champs.

I just added a pic of the HT system. NAD T763 receiver, Polk RTi-35 mains, Polk center, Eosone powered subs, Radio Shack rears, Samsung DLP.

rw
look very nice!
outta my pricerange though :rofl:

powerlord
04-10-2007, 09:32 AM
:)

They are Sound LAB (http://soundlab-speakers.com/) U-1 electrostats. They are large simply because it takes lots of "sandwich wrap" to produce first octave bass. Unlike the big Apogees, however, they are not capable of 120 db levels with the power I have. I tend to listen in the 70s and 80s with peaks no more than about 90 db. They are low level resolution champs.

I just added a pic of the HT system. NAD T763 receiver, Polk RTi-35 mains, Polk center, Eosone powered subs, Radio Shack rears, Samsung DLP.

rw


Hey E,I know those subs!I'll have to upgrade my pics,I added an RSP912 to my Eosone system recently.Can't say that I'm too impressed with it,it just doesn't seem to get real low.The infinity I had in the pics went to that feeling in the gut low that i like,but at high volume you could easily hear it bottom out.This might be to personal,but what price range are those sound labs in?:)

E-Stat
04-10-2007, 10:33 AM
Hey E,I know those subs!I'll have to upgrade my pics,I added an RSP912 to my Eosone system recently.Can't say that I'm too impressed with it,it just doesn't seem to get real low.
In my room, they're good to about 35 hz or so which is about where the port is tuned. Indeed they have little response below that. My objective was to fill the gap in the Polk's low end response and take the power load off them. With the subs set to provide a flat response, the NAD receiver clips into the mains (100 watts all channels driven) before the subs run out of steam. Perfectly adequate for me. A reviewer friend of mine, however, has a rather outrageous HT / multichannel system. EMM Labs SACD transport / DAC, Toshiba HD player, Conrad-Johnson MET preamp, Krell Processor, Edge multichannel amp, Magneplanar MG 20.1 fronts, a pair of MMGC centers, MG 3.6 rears, four Alon Thunderbolt subs, Sony projector, 100" screen, and Nordost Valhalla cabling throughout along with a Thor power conditioner. It's a fun system to experience.


This might be to personal,but what price range are those sound labs in?:)
Let's just say a bunch. I bought them used, but they were shipped to me directly from the factory where they had been refurbished with new cores and updated backplates. I paid about two thirds list for them. I suspect those will be my last speakers as they meet my every need. I drive them with a pair of VTL MB 450 amps with a GamuT CD-1 through DACT attenuators. For vinyl, I use an Audio Reseach SP-9 MK III preamp, VPI Scout, Souther TQ-1 arm, and Dynavector DV-20 cartridge. JPS Labs and Harmonic Technology cabling. Previously, I used Acoustat 2+2s which lasted me for over twenty years. I bought my first full range electrostats, the Acoustat X, in 1977.

To tell you the truth, I most likely spend the greatest amount of time listening to my vintage garage system using tweaked double New Advents. I rebuilt the crossovers, replaced the wiring, and put foam rings around the tweeters to minimize cabinet diffraction. The components are largely hand-me-downs from the main system and the system is equally minimalistic. I use a Pioneer PD-54 CD transport, Manley Sigma DAC with tube output directly into a Threshold Stasis 3 amp. For vinyl, I use a table I purchased when I was 17 that still runs great. It's an Ariston RD-11s (precursor to the Linn Sondek LP-12), with SME 3009 II arm, Shure M97E cartridge into a new Rolls Bellari VP-129 phono pre. I use JPS Labs / DH Labs interconnects and separate runs of Philips 14 gauge speaker wire to the Advents. While not offering the Nth degree of transparency and focus of the 'stats, they nevertheless present a very natural sound with a realistic sized image that also excels at low levels. I spend a lot of time in the garage puttering with the cars and bike and working on projects.

rw

powerlord
04-10-2007, 01:38 PM
I don't see many people using Eosone,which is kind of weird to me after reading who their designer was and how they came about.I like the garage setup,being a garage man myself.I'm getting a real urge to make the garage into a dedicated HT though.I bought a sub for my HT a while back on the advice someone gave me here on the forum,it was a Dayton 15" Titan that just overpowered my room so much even turned down that i returned it.I'm still looking for a smaller sub that will go deep,any suggestions?

GMichael
04-10-2007, 01:43 PM
I don't see many people using Eosone,which is kind of weird to me after reading who their designer was and how they came about.I like the garage setup,being a garage man myself.I'm getting a real urge to make the garage into a dedicated HT though.I bought a sub for my HT a while back on the advice someone gave me here on the forum,it was a Dayton 15" Titan that just overpowered my room so much even turned down that i returned it.I'm still looking for a smaller sub that will go deep,any suggestions?

Sorry that that sub didn't work out for you. Have you tried contacting SVS? They may have suggestions for your room size etc.

E-Stat
04-10-2007, 02:08 PM
I don't see many people using Eosone,which is kind of weird to me after reading who their designer was and how they came about.
I have three of the powered subs (in two video systems) that have been utterly reliable for years. Indeed Polk is a quality supplier and Arnie Nudell certainly knows a thing or two about speaker design.


I bought a sub for my HT a while back on the advice someone gave me here on the forum,it was a Dayton 15" Titan that just overpowered my room so much even turned down that i returned it.I'm still looking for a smaller sub that will go deep,any suggestions?
Perhaps you might start a new thread in speakers or HT to get other's reactions. I find matching subs to mains is still a black art with lots of variables. I've spent a great deal of time trying to optimize sub placement, low pass crossover frequency, gain, and HT receiver high pass settings to the mains.

Ironically, the challenge in my system is trying to flatten out a 5 db trough centered around 90 hz and a 2 db peak around 160 hz. Since the HT is in the family room, I don't have the luxury of placing a bunch of bass traps in there. :)

rw

powerlord
04-10-2007, 02:51 PM
Sorry that that sub didn't work out for you. Have you tried contacting SVS? They may have suggestions for your room size etc.

No problem G,that sub was sweet,and If I had the room it would still be here,I have a chance at an SVS 20-39 and that is what SVS told me would be good for my room,so I might buy it.Your advice was great and the Dayton is a monster.:cornut:

Resident Loser
04-11-2007, 05:26 AM
...Ironically, the challenge in my system is trying to flatten out a 5 db trough centered around 90 hz and a 2 db peak around 160 hz. Since the HT is in the family room, I don't have the luxury of placing a bunch of bass traps in there.

...I suggest equalization? Not certain if there is a parametric that would handle the less than an octave difference in center freqs, but somebody out there makes a bass-region graphic that may do the trick...might even be SVS...

I'll take a guess that the discontinuity of being down 5dB@90hz is what makes that +2dB@160hz even noticeable...

jimHJJ(...like I said, a guess...)

ADDENDUM :http://www.hometheateraudiocontrol.com/product.asp?Product_Id=171119&d_Id=16463&l1=16158&l2=16463

If it's of any consequence, I have an one-octave graphic from Audio Control I use for my rears...and I've used it for years... they're reasonbly priced as I recall and made in the USA...

E-Stat
04-12-2007, 12:00 PM
...I suggest equalization? Not certain if there is a parametric that would handle the less than an octave difference in center freqs, but somebody out there makes a bass-region graphic that may do the trick...might even be SVS.
Thanks for the suggstion but I've tried that route. I have a third octave Behringer unit, but it creates a ground loop when in the system. Not to mention I really don't have a good place to put it. Maybe I'll try to wrestle the hum problem down. I'm not a big believer in using cheater plugs.

rw

Resident Loser
04-12-2007, 12:04 PM
Thanks for the suggstion but I've tried that route. I have a third octave Behringer unit, but it creates a ground loop when in the system. Not to mention I really don't have a good place to put it. Maybe I'll try to wrestle the hum problem down. I'm not a big believer in using cheater plugs.

rw

...tried a better power cord?

jimHJJ(...sorry, I couldn't resist...)