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yyz
04-01-2007, 10:46 AM
Hi folks! I've been browsing these forums for a while now, and have found them to be very useful, and the people who contribute very informed and very passionate about their hobby. I'd like to get some opinions about my current setup, and how to possibly better it.

My system consists of a Denon DCD-815 CD deck, a Rotel RC-971 pre-amp, a Rotel RB-971 amp, and a pair of Paradigm studio 60 speakers.

I actually still enjoy this system very much and have no coplaints about the sound, but I've been using this equipment for many years now and find myself wondering if it could be even better if I looked into some more current components.

The room it is set up in is fairly large (about 10X20 feet or so), but volume is certainly not an issue. My amp has more than enough power to produce listening levels that I'm comfortable with. I'm a musician, and listen to all kinds of music from rock to jazz to classical to country...so I am much more interested in detail and authenticity of sound, as opposed to loads of extra power. I also commonly listen with headphones (Grado).

I'd really be interested in any opinions as to what single change would produce the biggest improvement in sound quality. Thanks very much in advance!

RuSsMaN
04-01-2007, 05:02 PM
There are a lot of answers, to that simple question. I take it you like the overall tonal signature of the rig? If so, have you tried tweaking it out? Cables, isolation components, maybe an external d/a for your Denon?

I would start there. If you are wanting to do a 'next level' step, I would start with looking at the source or preamp.

Cheers,
Russ

Mr Peabody
04-01-2007, 05:25 PM
I agree with Russman, if you have enough volume and you are happy with the character of your system, you can always bring it up a notch by improving the source. You can always use your Denon as a transport and just experiment with adding a DAC. I have an extremely old Denon CD player in another system and it makes a great transport for a Conrad Johnson DAC. If you do not already use quality cables, it has been my experience that is another thing that took my system up a notch. Brands like Cardas, Audioquest, Transparent etc.

The cables and power conditioning are things you just have to audition to see if they work. I've consistently found quality cables to improve my sound. I tried a multi outlet power conditioner and did not like the effect but I had a Krell amp at the time and the conditioner may have not allowed enough current to flow. My experiment with upgrading power cords was amazing, most notable improvement in CD player and phono stage. I ended up replacing every power cord in my system that was removable. Others claim they were not as successful or couldn't tell difference but it's worth the audition if your results turn ot as well as mine.

hermanv
04-01-2007, 06:03 PM
I guess we need a definition of improve. More slam, louder, smoother, better extension?

I used to own a Denon CD player, it always sounded hard to me, like Mr Peabody I bought an outboard DAC, the same C-J DAC as Mr Peabody. While not the last word in impulse response it is very smooth and musical, a very easy listen. Suddenly I could listen for hours when before I couldn't.

DACs similar to this one are easily available used for very reasonable amounts. If smoothness isn't the problem then we need a better description of what you mean or want. Have you listened to other audiophile systems? Can you define why they are better (assuming they are)?

You could end up replacing every piece before you are happy, unless you are wealthy, that probably isn't very desirable.

yyz
04-01-2007, 07:20 PM
Thanks for the responses folks, I appreciate your input! I guess the improvement that I'm looking for would be something that would give me better detail and more of a sense of depth. I haven't really had the chance to listen to many true "audiofile" type systems, and I'm a little afraid to expose myself to very high-end systems (I'm far from wealthy, but I fear my income and my taste are at very different ends of the spectrum!), but, maybe that would be a place to start - just to see the possibilities. As I said before, I really don't dislike my system, but after using it for so long (it's probably been between 8 and 10 years) I can't help but wonder how much hi-fi technologhy has improved. I have been thinking that either the source or the preamp may be the most beneficial place to start, as I spend about half of my listening time with headphones. Thanks again guys, it's nice to have a place where I can get helpful responses from people with alot of knowledge.

PeruvianSkies
04-01-2007, 08:44 PM
Thanks for the responses folks, I appreciate your input! I guess the improvement that I'm looking for would be something that would give me better detail and more of a sense of depth. I haven't really had the chance to listen to many true "audiofile" type systems, and I'm a little afraid to expose myself to very high-end systems (I'm far from wealthy, but I fear my income and my taste are at very different ends of the spectrum!), but, maybe that would be a place to start - just to see the possibilities. As I said before, I really don't dislike my system, but after using it for so long (it's probably been between 8 and 10 years) I can't help but wonder how much hi-fi technologhy has improved. I have been thinking that either the source or the preamp may be the most beneficial place to start, as I spend about half of my listening time with headphones. Thanks again guys, it's nice to have a place where I can get helpful responses from people with alot of knowledge.

You can certainly upgrade every aspect of your setup, but if you wanted to just make ONE change and have the most significant improvement it would be your speakers. The other areas will only be subtle improvements, while the speakers can make a drastic improvement. You might want to consider a certain budget, you could easily sell your Studio's and use that money towards something in the higher-end of B&W, PSB, Totem, ProAC, Tyler, KEF (reference 2), etc etc, or even go with the Studio 80's, but the difference probably won't be nearly as huge as going with some better product lines.

anamorphic96
04-01-2007, 10:38 PM
Interesting how not a single response mentioned improving the acoustics of the room. This along with speakers have the BIGGEST IMPACT over any other componet in your system. Improving the acoustics can cause night and day differences in the sound of a system.

Can you provide us with some pics of your system. Just about all systems can benefit from room treatments.

PeruvianSkies
04-02-2007, 12:07 AM
Interesting how not a single response mentioned improving the acoustics of the room. This along with speakers have the BIGGEST IMPACT over any other componet in your system. Improving the acoustics can cause night and day differences in the sound of a system.

Can you provide us with some pics of your system. Just about all systems can benefit from room treatments.


This would have been my second recommendation, but he just wanted ONE thing to improve upon first. Then I would do room treatment, then work from there with the actual components.

Rock&Roll Ninja
04-02-2007, 08:09 AM
I'd really be interested in any opinions as to what single change would produce the biggest improvement in sound quality. Thanks very much in advance!
Room acoustics.

hermanv
04-02-2007, 09:35 AM
I agree, room acoustics are very important. I had heavy drapes, thick carpet and overstuffed furniture so my room needed less help than many others. Commercial audiophile acoustic treatments seem very highly priced. I found these absorbent panels that appear to be quite reasonable: 24" x 48" x 4" at $46.95 or if 2" thick will do; $37.95.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--ATS-Acoustic-Panels--100.html

kexodusc
04-02-2007, 09:49 AM
Room acoustics.
Components are the fun upgrades because you get to tinker with new gadgets or see a nice purty set of speakers working away during playback.

Room acoustics are often the most neglected area of an audio system. They definitely were in mine for 10 years or so. Source players, amps, pre-amps, and cables may contribute to minor performance improvements and are definitely worthwhile upgrades at the right time. Speakers, as has been mentioned, contribute the most to the sound you hear. The second biggest factor on the sound that reaches your ears is the role your room's natural acoustics will have in altering the sound the system generates.

Best part is, judging by your system now, it's a relatively inexpensive option to upgrading amps or speakers at this point. A few hundred bucks can do wonders for taming flutter echo and destructive reflections, and can really take imaging and soundstaging to another level. Bass traps are invaluable for smoothing out the frequency response and apparent transient response.

If you don't have any room treatments that should be the next are you look at. Plants, bookshelves, and furniture just don't do a good enough job. You owe it to yourself.

kexodusc
04-02-2007, 09:54 AM
I agree, room acoustics are very important. I had heavy drapes, thick carpet and overstuffed furniture so my room needed less help than many others. Commercial audiophile acoustic treatments seem very highly priced. I found these absorbent panels that appear to be quite reasonable: 24" x 48" x 4" at $46.95 or if 2" thick will do; $37.95.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--ATS-Acoustic-Panels--100.html

I built my own traps, but purchased some of the raw materials here. You can save a pretty penny building your own if you're up to it (it's really easy, ask LJ), but if I was going to buy my own, ATS Acoustics is probably where I'd buy. I haven't seen any selling quality treatment for less yet.

Grandpaw
04-03-2007, 06:48 AM
I think that room acoustics and speakers would not be on the top of my list due to the fact he mentioned using headphones half of the time when listening. I would think that a DAC or other piece of equipment that was used all the time when listening would be a better bang for the buck, Jeff

Rock&Roll Ninja
04-06-2007, 08:27 AM
Yes, but you can't really upgarde a headphone.... you just buy a better pair.

Jimmy C
04-06-2007, 01:03 PM
Hi folks! I've been browsing these forums for a while now, and have found them to be very useful, and the people who contribute very informed and very passionate about their hobby. I'd like to get some opinions about my current setup, and how to possibly better it.

My system consists of a Denon DCD-815 CD deck, a Rotel RC-971 pre-amp, a Rotel RB-971 amp, and a pair of Paradigm studio 60 speakers.

I actually still enjoy this system very much and have no coplaints about the sound, but I've been using this equipment for many years now and find myself wondering if it could be even better if I looked into some more current components.

The room it is set up in is fairly large (about 10X20 feet or so), but volume is certainly not an issue. My amp has more than enough power to produce listening levels that I'm comfortable with. I'm a musician, and listen to all kinds of music from rock to jazz to classical to country...so I am much more interested in detail and authenticity of sound, as opposed to loads of extra power. I also commonly listen with headphones (Grado).

I'd really be interested in any opinions as to what single change would produce the biggest improvement in sound quality. Thanks very much in advance!

...system in my bedroom - cheap Sony 5-disc >>> Rotel RC-995 >>> RB-991 >>> Paradigm Studio 60s, v2.

As previously stated, without dumping everything and starting over, I would play with acoustics and speaker placement. Not sure what your room looks like, but I know the Studios like to breathe, better on the long wall, for eg. I also feel they prefer a fairly damped space, as opposed to wood floors and a LOT of glass. They're better nearfield, IMO... well, not TOO close, but ears maybe 8 or so feet away, equilateral listening triangle.

If you MUST spend some money (we all enjoy that occasionally!) I would look into a reasonably-priced tubed integrated, or separates. I briefly hooked up my PrimaLuna, and it actually took the Paradigms to another level - much less grainy, more resolution. There are also separates that don't have to break the bank - I'm not an expert, but there are options around. The 60s are quite sensitive (91 dB? Forgot...) - didn't miss going from 200 WPC to 40 at all.

I can't say that I hear MASSIVE differences on sub-$2K CDPs. Obviously, I haven't heard everything, and I might <gasp> be wrong. From what I have listened to, that's my take.

Ahhh... there's always vinyl to get into :^)

Maybe the Paradigms just ain't cuttin' it for ya...

Yeah, so placement and acoustics first - can be very effective and inexpensive. After that, tubes might bring a new level of musicality to the aural picture.

Just my two seashells...

Grandpaw
04-06-2007, 01:33 PM
Yes, but you can't really upgarde a headphone.... you just buy a better pair.

You are right, but headphones are not the only piece of equipment you are using when listening to music on them. Also how else would you upgrade a pair of speakers ??? You just buy a better pair.

The point I was trying to make is to upgrade something that would be used when listening to music all the time on either headphones or with speakers due to using each method about half the time each. Replacing speakers or buying room treatments would only be of benefit when not listening on headphones. Myself if I were going to go through the effort to upgrade I would want to realize my efforts anytime I listened, not just half of the time.

If he didn't use headphones so much I would put speakers and room treatments high on the list, Jeff

audio_dude
04-06-2007, 03:49 PM
If he spends half his time listening to headphones... why hasn't anyone suggested a nice headphone amp?? I'd think that would be the best improvement.

Check out this thread: http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=22101

PeruvianSkies
04-06-2007, 09:43 PM
Did anyone think that maybe the reason that he currently listens half the time to headphones is because of inadequate speakers and perhaps room acoustics? Maybe if we hook him up with some new speakers and/or room treatment than those headphones won't get as much use.

Grandpaw
04-07-2007, 06:03 AM
Did anyone think that maybe the reason that he currently listens half the time to headphones is because of inadequate speakers and perhaps room acoustics? Maybe if we hook him up with some new speakers and/or room treatment than those headphones won't get as much use.

I would think that it would be very helpful for everyone trying to answer XYZ for him to clarify why headphones are used. It may be due to sleeping kids or neighbors that would be bothered by using speakers or he just may prefer using headphones. It could also be due to inadequate speakers. The answer would definitely help in making suggestions, Jeff

kexodusc
04-07-2007, 07:03 AM
Is YYZ even reading this anymore?
Yes, if he uses his headphones most of the time, they can be an attractive option. If it's 50/50 or less room acoustic treatment should be the priority if possible.
Of course sometimes WAF comes into play, in which case speakers, amps, sources, etc start becoming practical alternatives, as we all know.

yyz
04-07-2007, 12:45 PM
Hi folks. Thanks for continuing to make suggestions! Sorry, I haven't checked the forum for a while - it's been a busy week. I've ended up upgrading my CD player with a Cambridge Audio Azur 640 v2. I did get a chance to read many of the replies before making my purchase and considered all of them. The room my sysyem in is pretty neutral sounding - carpeted basement floor, wood/drywall, some furniture, and rectangular. My speakers are set up on the long wall, as suggested and are about 9 feet away equalateral triangle style. The headphones I use are Grado SR60's - certainly not ultra expensive, but nice sounding. The reason I spend so much time listening with headphones is because, firstly, I'm a musician and sometimes it's easier to learn new material if you listen to it on a different system or a different environment (some things just seem to pop out in the headphones), and, secondly, I do alot of listening at night when other people in the house are sleeping. I have noticed a difference by changing the CD player. The low end is more focused and very low harmonics are much more present than before. There is also a much more "airy" sort of quality to the sound now - instuments and voices seem to have more of their own space in the mix rather than overlaping. Thanks again, I appreciate all of your feedback!

anamorphic96
04-07-2007, 01:43 PM
Glad things are working out. The Cambridge is a very nice player and should bring you many hours of enjoyment.