Circuitcity hiring cheaper labor.

[Smokey]

Circuit City Stores Inc., the second-largest U.S. electronics retailer after Best Buy Co., fired 3,400 of its highest-paid hourly workers and will hire replacements willing to work for less.

Analysts and economists said the move is an uncertain experiment that could backfire for the chain. ``Firing 3,400 of arguably the most successful sales people in the company could prove terrible for morale,'' Colin McGranahan, an analyst with Sanford Bernstein & Co., wrote in a note today.

Circuit City pays about $10 to $11 an hour, on average, said Rick Weinhart, an analyst with BMO Capital Markets Corp. in New York. Entry level pay probably is close to $8 for inexperienced workers, he said.

Circuit City, along with Best Buy, was forced to slash TV prices during the 2006 holiday season after Wal-Mart Stores, Home Depot and CostCo Wholesale Corp. began selling flat panels for less. Its stock has fallen 21 percent over the past 12 months as profit from selling flat-panel televisions plummeted.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=awBiOvPYHhgc&refer=us

[Dusty Chalk]

Analysts and economists said the move is an uncertain experiment that could backfire for the chain. ``Firing 3,400 of arguably the most successful sales people in the company could prove terrible for morale,'' ...Agreed. If they fire just their top-paid 3400, then yeah, it's stupid. They should make a concerted effort to fire their top-overpaid 3400 -- I.E. pay/sales ratio.

[PeruvianSkies]

anyone get my clever Cars in-joke for the title and it's relevance to CC commercials? Ok, hope that didn't go over everyones heads.

It usually costs about 8-10 times more money to hire and train new people than to keep current people. They think that they are saving money, but "who's gonna drive them home"? You Might Think that cutting those people will save money, but in the longterm effect it will prove fatal for that company. My Best Friends girl used to work there and made very good money through college, but she eventually quit due to what she called "politics". I guess CC is All Mixed Up. I suppose CC is simply trying to Shake It Up a bit and maybe even try to scare some of the remaining employees with this move. This is one of those situations where you don't even want to stay around with the company because even when you get promoted you never know when you days are up. It becomes difficult to Let the Good Times Roll. I noticed that the CC near me renovated recently and added about 3 times more TV's and eliminated about 1/3 of their home audio stuff, I guess they are not Moving In Stereo as much these days. Oh well, another B&M store shot to crap...sometimes you just have to Touch and Go.

I am declaring myself anti-CC from this day forth and shall never shop there.

[ericl]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat

as if the sales people weren't pimply faced and ignorant enough.. now they're firing all the successful ones?? what kind of a strategy is that? how much are they really going to save here?

[ericl]

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/immigration_the_human_cost

ps
cute title peruvianskies

[Feanor]

Circuit City Stores Inc., the second-largest U.S. electronics retailer after Best Buy Co., fired 3,400 of its highest-paid hourly workers and will hire replacements willing to work for less.
...
Circuit City pays about $10 to $11 an hour, on average, said Rick Weinhart, an analyst with BMO Capital Markets Corp. in New York. Entry level pay probably is close to $8 for inexperienced workers, he said.

Circuit City, along with Best Buy, was forced to slash TV prices during the 2006 holiday season after Wal-Mart Stores, Home Depot and CostCo Wholesale Corp. began selling flat panels for less.
...


I guess they figure if Walmart, etc., can sell that stuff paying their staff what they do, than cheaper staff should work fine at CC. Are they right? People do their research online and don't really trust the knowledge of staff at CC or Best Buy or the like, anyway. So why not reduce wages to the shelf-stocker level and be done with it?

Unfortunately it's part of the bigger picture of the down-grading of the American workforce in general. It's part of what Lou Dobbs calls "The War on the Middle Class". Inevidably the preeminence of the U.S. as a world power will go down the pipes along with the living standard of its typical working citizen.

[PeruvianSkies]

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/immigration_the_human_cost

ps
cute title peruvianskies

I try.

[nightflier]

I am declaring myself anti-CC from this day forth and shall never shop there.

I'll second that. I don't think BB is making money hand-over-fist either, especially on TVs, but I think what is helping them somewhat through this period is the Magnolia stores. Being able to compare the BB stuff almost right next to the Magnolia stuff really does make a difference.

I agree about this decision being tied to the War on the Middle Class. But what is also depressing to me is the end of the B&M store model everywhere. Sure I can find a lot of stuff online, but there is value in being able to see and use the physical items one buys. I also noticed that Tweeter is following the very same path that has ruined CC. It seems like all the roadside mini-malls are filled with stores that only sell services, perishables, or food. All the stores that sell tangible, durable goods are going away.

Considering how much Polk Audio depends on CC, I wonder what their take is on this decision?

[braxus]

Sure why not fire people that will sell the most and have the most knowledge on their products giving the best service. Stupid move. And its not like Circuit City doesn't make dollars for the company. Its a typical move to rake in better profits while not sharing it with the people that make the company money. Its just making the rich richer and the poor poorer. And now we're forced to buy this disposable cr@p that isn't even worth buying these days and wont last more then a couple years without breaking down.

[eisforelectronic]

This isn't the first time CC has done this. I had several friends layed off a few years ago. At that time they got rid of their top 10% of sales people and then switched to hourly from commission. All my friends went and found jobs that same day, mostly at Sprint and Verizon, but it still kind of sucked. Most of them were making 40k-50k+. I guess they do better now though.

[Smokey]

May be they should reinvent themselves like Target stores did against Walmart and Kmart. Push the higher-end lines of what consumer electronic lines BB or Walmart carry.

It will probably cost them in the short run due to cut in labor and merchandise, but in the long run they might find a place for themselves in the retailer market. The way they are going now by cutting out most experience salespersons will be the reverse of that. It will help them in short run, but will cost them in the long run.

[PeruvianSkies]

May be they should reinvent themselves like Target stores did against Walmart and Kmart. Push the higher-end lines of what consumer electronic lines BB or Walmart carry.

It will probably cost them in the short run due to cut in labor and merchandise, but in the long run they might find a place for themselves in the retailer market. The way they are going now by cutting out most experience salespersons will be the reverse of that. It will help them in short run, but will cost them in the long run.

That the people making those decisions are not concerned about the long-term benefits...they just want to make quick money and get out.

[Smokey]

That the people making those decisions are not concerned about the long-term benefits...they just want to make quick money and get out.

Their wish of "getting out" might come sooner than later the way they are going. BestBuy is slowing pulling the rug out under them becuase CC can not compete with BB in price and selections.

Recently went shopping for a computer monitor in BB, CC, CompUSA and Walmart stores, and BB prices were about $25 cheaper than its rivals. So BB got my business.

[E-Stat]

as if the sales people weren't pimply faced and ignorant enough..
So what will be the difference? The "experienced" audio consultants I've encountered were all clueless. :)

rw

[ericl]

So what will be the difference? The "experienced" audio consultants I've encountered were all clueless. :)

rw
exactly.. if those were the good ones.. do you really want to know how bad the bad ones can be?

[E-Stat]

exactly.. if those were the good ones.. do you really want to know how bad the bad ones can be?
Is that a trick question? :)

Given that the *good* ones I've encountered would show speakers by cranking the bejesus out of a pair with a "U" shaped EQ curve applied, I'm not sure how much worse than useless you can get. I bought some Polks from CC long ago, but I was largely choosing in the dark.

rw

[imported101]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat

as if the sales people weren't pimply faced and ignorant enough.. now they're firing all the successful ones?? what kind of a strategy is that? how much are they really going to save here?

Hey eric, hmmmm well seeing as you think employees of cc and bb are just pimply faced and ignorant...why do you go into their stores? Why do you shop there >? I mean with as many online retailers as there is today and all the info a couple of you have quoted about reading to know more then the sales people....why are you not shopping online? O wait I get it your one of those ignorant old men who think cause they researched something online they know more then those "pimply faced, ignorant sales people" . Its your type of people that has made the sales force that way. You think you know more then the people selling the product funny, over half those "pimply faced kids" have better sounds systems and tvs then you will in your home....so my guess is ya they know a whole lot more then a ignorant online researcher. You might as well say you believe everything the news paper and government tells you to.....cause at least that way you d be that more up front about how retarded you look and sound to people who know what their talking about. Cause those "pimply faced sales people" hmmm talk to the companies of the products they sell, they actually see the and learn all the specs from those companies who come into town to hold basically classroom sessions on their products. Oh ya and wait about 90 percent of them are college educated, and have a interested out side of work in the products they sell, its just they come across as ignorant to customers like you who act like a**holes to them and treat them like dirt, and talk down to them. Lastly for the moron that said you shouldnt buy these products like flat panels that dont last a year...well do your f******research you fool, the reason those products suck is cause your to cheap to spent more money on the top line. O wait and that the american public only wants the cheapest price, so you really think the cost of making those tvs went down???? well no they didnt, not if they are keeping the same quality products in the tvs......with cheaper prices that you want means cheaper quality products hello....any one there?????? Business 101 try taking the course its held at any local high school and community college.

[PeruvianSkies]

hello....any one there?????? Business 101 try taking the course its held at any local high school and community college.

Is that business 101 class down the hall from grammar 101 and spelling 102? Do they teach the difference between YOU'RE, YOUR, and YOU ARE?

...don't worry ericl ...I got your back.

[daviethek]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat

as if the sales people weren't pimply faced and ignorant enough.. now they're firing all the successful ones?? what kind of a strategy is that? how much are they really going to save here?

Hey eric, hmmmm well seeing as you think employees of cc and bb are just pimply faced and ignorant...why do you go into their stores? Why do you shop there >? I mean with as many online retailers as there is today and all the info a couple of you have quoted about reading to know more then the sales people....why are you not shopping online? O wait I get it your one of those ignorant old men who think cause they researched something online they know more then those "pimply faced, ignorant sales people" . Its your type of people that has made the sales force that way. You think you know more then the people selling the product funny, over half those "pimply faced kids" have better sounds systems and tvs then you will in your home....so my guess is ya they know a whole lot more then a ignorant online researcher. You might as well say you believe everything the news paper and government tells you to.....cause at least that way you d be that more up front about how retarded you look and sound to people who know what their talking about. Cause those "pimply faced sales people" hmmm talk to the companies of the products they sell, they actually see the and learn all the specs from those companies who come into town to hold basically classroom sessions on their products. Oh ya and wait about 90 percent of them are college educated, and have a interested out side of work in the products they sell, its just they come across as ignorant to customers like you who act like a**holes to them and treat them like dirt, and talk down to them. Lastly for the moron that said you shouldnt buy these products like flat panels that dont last a year...well do your f******research you fool, the reason those products suck is cause your to cheap to spent more money on the top line. O wait and that the american public only wants the cheapest price, so you really think the cost of making those tvs went down???? well no they didnt, not if they are keeping the same quality products in the tvs......with cheaper prices that you want means cheaper quality products hello....any one there?????? Business 101 try taking the course its held at any local high school and community college.


so what are you saying?

[imported101]

Peruvianskies, yep i mis spelled whoops. Still not as ignorant as half the people posting on this board. But hey glad you have erics back....what is your job exactly?

Daviethek-
all im saying is that people like to get on these forums and claim they know stuff and talk trash to others about employees of certain companies and generalize there comments to include all employees when of course they had one bad experience or two with one or two different associates, regardless thats less then hmmm 1% of the employees. Not aiming anything at you just sick and tired of people like peruvianskies and eric who think they are know it all s, funny i mis spelled some stuff and the only thing commented on was that....lol. I knew while writing thats what they would focus on. Personally I dont care about grammar, I care about intelligents which is measured in many different forms, maybe my grammar is not correct, but ofcourse one again I didnt major in english and dont give a S**** about it. I m tired of listening to half a** arguments which are one sided oh and viewed only by one side because they people are to stupid to look at all angles....

[PeruvianSkies]

Peruvianskies, yep i mis spelled whoops. Still not as ignorant as half the people posting on this board. But hey glad you have erics back....what is your job exactly?

Daviethek-
all im saying is that people like to get on these forums and claim they know stuff and talk trash to others about employees of certain companies and generalize there comments to include all employees when of course they had one bad experience or two with one or two different associates, regardless thats less then hmmm 1% of the employees. Not aiming anything at you just sick and tired of people like peruvianskies and eric who think they are know it all s, funny i mis spelled some stuff and the only thing commented on was that....lol. I knew while writing thats what they would focus on. Personally I dont care about grammar, I care about intelligents which is measured in many different forms, maybe my grammar is not correct, but ofcourse one again I didnt major in english and dont give a S**** about it. I m tired of listening to half a** arguments which are one sided oh and viewed only by one side because they people are to stupid to look at all angles....

Don't you think that you might make your point more clearly if you knew A. how to spell the words that you are using them and B. use them in grammatically corrrect form? Talk about ignorance...the only thing that you seem to be good at is throwing out obscenities or making obscene comments. The majority of us here feel that what CC is doing is wrong and that is our opinion. You apparently feel different...maybe you are one of the pimply faced kids? You state that you are sick of people like myself who 'think' that we are funny....interesting since you hardly know me and have only posted how many times on this site? If you KNEW that we would be commenting on your spelling and grammatical errors than that means you did them on purpose, which means ....guess what....

IGNORANCE - ignorance is a lack of knowledge, or a willful lack of desire to improve the efficiency, merit, effectiveness or usefulness of one's actions. Ignorance is also a "state of being ignorant" or unaware (not knowing).

By the way everyone....just so you call know...I have a new quote: "Intelligents is measured in many different forms"

[E-Stat]

well seeing as you think employees of cc and bb are just pimply faced and ignorant...why do you go into their stores?
FWIW, I worked in a hi-fi shop while in college back in the 70s. For quite a few reasons, the environment today is so different from what it was back then. For some good - and some bad reasons, purchasing any number of products over the internet has changed the landscape.

For better or for worse, a company is judged today by a single contact or experience. If that is not a positive experience, then the company has not only lost that potential sale - but all that might follow. My two experiences over a five year period, isolated as they might be, have not been good. I'd really rather not explain clipping to a salesman.

rw

[imported101]

FWIW, I worked in a hi-fi shop while in college back in the 70s. For quite a few reasons, the environment today is so different from what it was back then. For some good - and some bad reasons, purchasing any number of products over the internet has changed the landscape.

For better or for worse, a company is judged today by a single contact or experience. If that is not a positive experience, then the company has not only lost that potential sale - but all that might follow. My two experiences over a five year period, isolated as they might be, have not been good. I'd really rather not explain clipping to a salesman.

rw
E stat- I agree with your comment now. How you just stated it I agree. Your right they are judged off of one single experience. Yes there are a lot of ignorant people out there. There are a lot of sales people who dont take care of the customers like they should. But back then there was commission style sales. Today your getting kids who are payed 8-11 dollars a hours. They go to school to. A lot of those same kids or young adults have a interest in what they sell. And do hear people call them pimply faced ......is just so stupid it made me laugh. I mean what does that say about you when your ripping on kids????? ( not directed at Estat)
Peruvian skies-
Im so glad you once again proved my point you have no argument at all.......Thanks for showing us all how to copy and paste from wikipedia/dictionary.com/......should I go on.....? If you have nothing to say except quote a definition that makes you look just as ignorant then keep your mouth shut.
I think what c city is doing is a disgrace, but I also dont jump on the corporate bandwagon and slander the employees like a couple of you have.

[imported101]

By the way everyone....just so you call know...I have a new quote: "Intelligents is measured in many different forms"
Peruvianskies-
for as many times as you d like to tell me I cant spell or my grammar is not correct well, maybe I was typing a little fast and mis typed a word....but for someone so insane about putting me down for it why would you make yourself a complete fool by mis spelling all and typing CALL.....

IGNORANCE - ignorance is a lack of knowledge, or a willful lack of desire to improve the efficiency, merit, effectiveness or usefulness of one's actions. Ignorance is also a "state of being ignorant" or unaware (not knowing).
yep correct......peruvianskies.....huh.......wait...ye p you dont know what your talking about, yes i typed fast and knew my grammar would be made fun of by the one fool who had no other valid point. Who could not come up with one point of their own so instead they quote dictionary . com. Then say I am obscene...or my language is...since when does that offend you?? Specially when your trying to call me a pimply faced kid. Hmmmm maybe when your saying someone is obscene and not smart you should think before typing a response that is so ridiculous, it makes you look like the moron. I didnt try to start a grammatical debate on this website, I went after people who rip on others because they think their smarter...notice at first I didnt mention you until you decided to fight back for others because obviously you have nothing better to do, then express your empty opinion.
EMPTY- without knowledge or sense; frivolous; foolish: an empty head. ( just one of the many defintions of empty on dictionary.com....but really the only one that applies to your comments).

[SlumpBuster]

You apparently feel different...maybe you are one of the pimply faced kids?


DING! DING! DING! And we have a winner, ladies and gentleman! Give that man a cigar!

[PeruvianSkies]

By the way everyone....just so you call know...I have a new quote: "Intelligents is measured in many different forms"
Peruvianskies-
for as many times as you d like to tell me I cant spell or my grammar is not correct well, maybe I was typing a little fast and mis typed a word....but for someone so insane about putting me down for it why would you make yourself a complete fool by mis spelling all and typing CALL.....

IGNORANCE - ignorance is a lack of knowledge, or a willful lack of desire to improve the efficiency, merit, effectiveness or usefulness of one's actions. Ignorance is also a "state of being ignorant" or unaware (not knowing).
yep correct......peruvianskies.....huh.......wait...ye p you dont know what your talking about, yes i typed fast and knew my grammar would be made fun of by the one fool who had no other valid point. Who could not come up with one point of their own so instead they quote dictionary . com. Then say I am obscene...or my language is...since when does that offend you?? Specially when your trying to call me a pimply faced kid. Hmmmm maybe when your saying someone is obscene and not smart you should think before typing a response that is so ridiculous, it makes you look like the moron. I didnt try to start a grammatical debate on this website, I went after people who rip on others because they think their smarter...notice at first I didnt mention you until you decided to fight back for others because obviously you have nothing better to do, then express your empty opinion.
EMPTY- without knowledge or sense; frivolous; foolish: an empty head. ( just one of the many defintions of empty on dictionary.com....but really the only one that applies to your comments).


Thankz fer tha edukation leson. Im furever changd.

With your whopping 4 posts you have done nothing but attack people here that have been on here for a long period of time and we all get along fairly well. Sometimes we argue with each other and debate, but the fact that you come here and attack us with little knowledge about what you are talking about is the real crime being commited. You think that the people that work at these placed know more about A/V than some of us? Hardly...we usually educate them and most likely have better systems in our homes. I feel sorry for you and the fact that you can't seem to type fast with accuracy or type and make complete sense. It's one think to make a 'typo' by typing too fast, but your grammar is unexcusable. Here is a hint...these all mean different things: THEY'RE, THEIR, and THERE. Learn the difference. When you are prepared to have an intelligent post let us know...

[imported101]

But if you all want to rip on those people who work for big retailers you should realize one thing. Hopefully you are smart enough to already know this or have already been taught it. Employees ( sales people) are at the bottom of the pole. Above them are the managers. Now in a company like circuit city. Your management is the problem, if you have looked up some of the articles in googe you ll find that management is mentioned to be a problem. See the sales people are smart, educated, and excited to help out for the most part. But when they are not given enough sales people per section to get things done and help customers cause management is trying to cut cost and save money then they get upset. Cause customers get upset. And customers take it out on the sale s people not the management. Management likes to just push number after number. Cause thats what their district managers are pushing. See circuit city' s problem is not the lack of educated employees, or the lack of good product to sale. It is the management which lacks the intelligence to find solutions to the problem arising from other big retailers like costco, and walmart selling cheap products at cheap prices. Then the other problem occurs where most customers think these are great tv s at low prices....NOT TRUE...maybe a select one or two are a good deal. But these same customers cant distinguish between the two. So instead of getting rid of overpaid managers and ceo s who have done jack anything for the company, they cut out the only people who matter and who are dealing with the public and know what they want. So next time you want to complain about something at one of these stores make sure you know its not that the sales person doesnt want to help you or get you something its because they cant. Cause of corporate.

[imported101]

Thanks peruvian skies....thanks for pointing out again....."you think that the people that work at these placed know more about A/V than some of us? Hardly...we usually educate them and most likely have better systems in our homes." My point exactly you think your smarter, o and my grammar and fast typing is not up to par to yours. Oh yes I guess im a pimply faced kid ding ding ding.....re read your ingnorance definition....cause it applies to you. Maybe you know something about audio....wow good job. So do a lot of others. It shows by your responses you think your the man, you choose to fight a battle that was not directed at you, till you opened your mouth. I d love to know where you work....cause I wonder do you own a company? do you run one? Because for someone who puts others down so much for such meaningless things as grammar, I d hope you have something to back your arrogance.

But let me thank you for your honest and well intended opinions. I know it was hard for you to think of what to say. Ill start taking grammar classes because. "Im furever changd."
Thankz fer tha edukation leson.

[PeruvianSkies]

But if you all want to rip on those people who work for big retailers you should realize one thing. INCOMPLETE SENTENCE Hopefully you are smart enough to already know this or have already been taught it. DOES NOT MAKE SENSE Employees ( sales people) are at the bottom of the pole. Above them are the managers. FRAGMENT Now in a company like circuit city. FRAGMENT Your management is the problem, if you have looked up some of the articles in googe you ll find that management is mentioned to be a problem. See the sales people are smart, educated, and excited to help out for the most part. But NEEDS COMMA when they are not given enough sales people per section to get things done and help customers cause management is trying to cut cost and save money then they get upset. Cause customers get upset. FRAGMENT And customers take it out on the sale s people not the management. INCOMPLETE SENTENCE Management likes to just push number after number. Cause thats THAT'S what their district managers are pushing. See circuit city' s problem is not the lack of educated employees, or the lack of good product to sale. NEEDS COMMA It is the management which lacks the intelligence to find solutions to the problem arising from other big retailers like costco, and walmart selling cheap products at cheap prices. Then the other problem occurs where most customers think these are great tv s at low prices....NOT TRUE...maybe a select one or two are a good deal. But COMBINE SENTENCES these same customers cant COMMA distinguish between the two. So instead of getting rid of overpaid managers and ceo s who have done jack anything for the company, they cut out the only people who matter and who are dealing with the public and know what they want. So next time you want to complain about something at one of these stores make sure you know its not that the sales person doesnt COMMA want to help you or get you something its COMMA because they cant.COMMA Cause of corporate.FRAGMENT

Whew...overall you're not too bad for a 5th grader.

[imported101]

lol thanks man keep going cause it just keeps showing how small you are.

[PeruvianSkies]

lol thanks man keep going cause it just keeps showing how small you are.

In a thread that I started. If you had been around long enough to maybe know what you are talking about you may have stumbled across this thread...

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=21998

[imported101]

See my idea was not to be so grammatically correct or make sure every sentence was capitalized. But apparently thats what the TEACHER PeruvianSkies and his huge 813 post s is here for.
Thank you....but you missed everything.

[PeruvianSkies]

See my idea was not to be so grammatically correct or make sure every sentence was capitalized. But apparently thats what the TEACHER PeruvianSkies and his huge 813 post s is here for.
Thank you....but you missed everything.

Does your computer not have a COMMA button on it? Maybe you bought it from Circuit City.

[SlumpBuster]

I've bought alot at CC over the years, much more than BB. The real issue was stock. Often BB would be out of stock, but CC would be good to go. Too bad.

As for the war on the middle class, here's something I always thought was suspect (hopefully I'm not high jacking the thread too much :D):

It used to be that a nice 24 to 36 inch CRT would be SOTA. Now, you need a flat panel that costs as much as 5 times the CRT. Add a monthly cable/bundle bill, Netflix, Tivo, buying DVDs instead of renting, ect. and what was an established fixed cost for decades is now ballooned to 10 times the cost. While a certain amount of this was driven by consumer demand, I always felt that another good portion was driven by outside pressure. Its a spend, spend, spend mentality. 1200 square foot houses used to be enough. Didn't you hear? You really need 3500. Station wagons used to rule. Didn't you hear? You really need a 4 wheel drive SUV. 25 inch CRT used to be enough, now its gotta be 65 flat. Oh, and you thought you only need two speakers? Guess again. You need at least 8. Whats that? You don't have a dedicated HT room? Well, lets take out a home equity loan to fix that. Now, shove that down your consumer hole, Slappy!

Certainly, a certain amount of consumerism is a good thing. But there is a limit. At some point consumerism will slow and/or shift, and many retailers will be left holding the bag. i.e. the housing market cools and every stand around with their d!cks in their hands wondering what happened to Home Depot.

TV manufactures demanding that you buy a bigger more expensive set. "Don't you what the whole picture?" they ask you. Well, my eyes are only 7 feet from my TV screen so "No, i don't need 65 inches. Then I read stats like 50 percent of homes with HD capable sets have no HD source of programing. I have just always suspected that there is a certain amount of good old fashioned "flim-flam" going on when it comes to selling way way way too much TV and electronics to someone that doesn't really want/need/know how to use it. Flim flam is never a good business model. Perhaps BB and CC are showing that.

[imported101]

Well hey congrats on all that, hmmm you sound like the other hundred thousand people who graduated college that I know. Oh yes congrats. Well done. So you can manage people? Is that hard? Do they have to take a grammar test before they work for you? Or are you really just that stupid? Judgemental??? Yes you for sure are. Cause once again you proved that while you may be smart, with a computer, and a paper, you are hmmm how do I put this? A judgemental fool.

[imported101]

Slumpbuster-
Very well put, I d have to agree.

[PeruvianSkies]

Well hey congrats on all that, hmmm you sound like the other hundred thousand people who graduated college that I know. Oh yes congrats. Well done. So you can manage people? Is that hard? Do they have to take a grammar test before they work for you? Or are you really just that stupid? Judgemental??? Yes you for sure are. Cause once again you proved that while you may be smart, with a computer, and a paper, you are hmmm how do I put this? A judgemental fool.

I am NOT a judgemental fool...I am a judgmental fool. People do not have to take a grammar test to work for me, they just have to pass the 3rd grade spelling test. You came here and made the first attack on someone that you know nothing about or a forum that you know little about. I defended that and stepped up to your remarks. You proved just how unintelligent you are with little to counter your point and so I simply picked apart what you typed in order to prove that you need some education on both manners and grammer. Why couldn't you have just come here and give your opinion without the attack-style method? There are right and wrong ways to debate, so don't whine when you get some people to argue back.

[SlumpBuster]

Slumpbuster-
Very well put, I d have to agree.

Does that mean I'm not going to get any of your vitriol?

Yes, I said "vitriol." A word I learned in college and did not cut and paste from Wikipedia. And note, I even spelled it right.

[imported101]

Originally Posted by imported101
See my idea was not to be so grammatically correct or make sure every sentence was capitalized. But apparently thats what the TEACHER PeruvianSkies and his huge 813 post s is here for.
Thank you....but you missed everything.

PeruvianSkies

WOW!!!!!!! man dude why you even think you are so much higher then me or anyone to correct them? Two other people actually wrote back and had valid points, I agreed cause they were well written. You focus yet again on my typing....yet you know nothing about me. And I can find out anything I want about you cause you talk, and talk, and talk. By the way no I did not buy my computer at circuit city, or best buy, or walmart. It has a apple on it...take a wild guess.

[imported101]

lol slumpbuster-
No I wont say anything, I just find peruvianskies to be a jerk, yes I wrote somethings out of anger and peoples lack of consideration for others. Yes I may not spell everything correct. I never said I was perfect. I just hate when people point out little grammatical things when we are talking about something totally different. Now if it was about grammar I d agree with Peruvian Skies. My grammar never was that great, but did it stop me from learning two other languages? NO. Did it stop anything Ive ever done NO. Its just a waste of time to have someone do that. Now when you replied I read your post and agreed cause I think your right and have a valid argument.

[SlumpBuster]

Does your computer not have a COMMA button on it? Maybe you bought it from Circuit City.

That's funny. That made me laugh.

[imported101]

I also liked "Does that mean I'm not going to get any of your vitriol?" It shows that you can turn something like our stupid argument into a little joke and let it pass.

[SlumpBuster]

lol slumpbuster-
No I wont say anything, I just find peruvianskies to be a jerk, yes I wrote somethings out of anger and peoples lack of consideration for others. Yes I may not spell everything correct. I never said I was perfect. I just hate when people point out little grammatical things when we are talking about something totally different. Now if it was about grammar I d agree with Peruvian Skies. My grammar never was that great, but did it stop me from learning two other languages? NO. Did it stop anything Ive ever done NO. Its just a waste of time to have someone do that. Now when you replied I read your post and agreed cause I think your right and have a valid argument.

Peru has some valid points. I can't agree or disagree if with your position if I am too busy deciphering it. Also, failure to use proper grammer, punctuation and spelling demonstrates an inherent disrespect for your intended audience. Why should they take the time to properly read it and digest it, when you couldn't take the time to properly write it and construct it.

[imported101]

Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
Does your computer not have a COMMA button on it? Maybe you bought it from Circuit City.
But see stupid comments like that make me laugh about how stupid the person is for writing it and thinking it. How limited can your imagination get? Obviously very, very limited. Listening to peruvian skies is like listening to a Hippy. They are the most closed minded people around.

[imported101]

Ok slumpbuster, again Ill agree. But my point is he didnt put it that way, instead he chose to argue and attack. Showing that he had no point to teach or even appreciate what I had to say. So in that case he shouldn't read it.
Once again, Ill say sorry for my grammar I have never been great at it.

[SlumpBuster]

Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
Does your computer not have a COMMA button on it? Maybe you bought it from Circuit City.
But see stupid comments like that make me laugh about how stupid the person is for writing it and thinking it. How limited can your imagination get? Obviously very, very limited. Listening to peruvian skies is like listening to a Hippy. They are the most closed minded people around.

Okay, troll. Gargle my sack. I'm going to bed.

[imported101]

Troll? Gargle your sack? lol man wow this forum is a class act.

[PeruvianSkies]

Peru has some valid points. I can't agree or disagree if with your position if I am too busy deciphering it. Also, failure to use proper grammer, punctuation and spelling demonstrates an inherent disrespect for your intended audience. Why should they take the time to properly read it and digest it, when you couldn't take the time to properly write it and construct it.

This is exactly what I have been attempting to point out all along. I only became involved with this because an attack was made unnecessary by a NEWBIE on the Forum's Administrator. Talk about rude. You wouldn't argue with the president of a company your first day on the job....or maybe you would, but it would also be the last day of your job.

[imported101]

lol ok so kick me off, once again proving alot. O and yes I would argue with the president if I disagreed. But hey thats the difference between people like you who kiss a** and people like me who speak their mind and make differences. Maybe not with you but your one in millions. And if you had chosen to say it the way slumpbuster did I would have agreed and actually asked you to correct my grammar for me seeing as how I know I am not that great at it. Instead you acted like a senior jack a**. Seniority is not everything you think my friend. It is but a little title that means nothing. Cause now a days you have twelve year olds doing as well as you at graphic design. Oh ya and 14 yr olds creating companies that make 100,000/yr-millions. My point is maybe your good at correcting every ones grammatical mistakes, but other people have talents in other areas to. So its not very kind or intelligent for you to go out ripping on people cause you know how to write a proper sentence and they dont.

[imported101]

Seeing as how you could totally rip apart my paragraphs, yet you could not express what you trying to point out shows your lack of consideration for people on this board. You think by quoting slumpbuster and saying "this is exactly what I have been attempting to point out all along", Shows that your point got across. Wrong it shows you lack the skills needed to communicate with others. If you think I was being dis respectful think again. Respect it not given. Just cause you started a forum or web page doesnt mean you earned respect from a single one. It shows you put up a page where people could come and discuss subject s pertaining to audio. If your a leader or think you are then you need to evaluate your performance. Like many others once they are higher then other people they think they know everything. To be a leader or a teacher you have to know how to communicate your lessons, or ideas. By communicate I mean get them across in a way that any person regardless of age, race, or intelligence, could understand. So far you have not. The only thing you have proven or shown is that my typing is not up to par with yours, and neither is my grammar.

[PeruvianSkies]

lol ok so kick me off, once again proving alot. O and yes I would argue with the president if I disagreed. But hey thats the difference between people like you who kiss a** and people like me who speak their mind and make differences. Maybe not with you but your one in millions. And if you had chosen to say it the way slumpbuster did I would have agreed and actually asked you to correct my grammar for me seeing as how I know I am not that great at it. Instead you acted like a senior jack a**. Seniority is not everything you think my friend. It is but a little title that means nothing. Cause now a days you have twelve year olds doing as well as you at graphic design. Oh ya and 14 yr olds creating companies that make 100,000/yr-millions. My point is maybe your good at correcting every ones grammatical mistakes, but other people have talents in other areas to. So its not very kind or intelligent for you to go out ripping on people cause you know how to write a proper sentence and they dont.

You see the difference between you and me is not what you think. I would disagree with the president if I didn't see eye to eye, but I wouldn't do it on the first day. This is where we differ. I would have the respect to wait until I had established myself as a valid employee and then in a respectful way I would confront the president about the issue. Instead you would make the mistake of arguing on the first day and then not last very long because you burned your bridges before you had time to cross over to the good side.

Do you not see the error of your ways? What exactly do you know about seniority? When I was 24 I had over 30 people working under me and have continued to add more people over the past 3 years. I know how to manage people and most of them do volunteer work because they love what they do and have a passion for what they do.

We are not here to argue with you or keep on attacking you. I hate seeing conflict arise over stupid issues, but at the same time I am not going to sit by and watch as someone attacks away on here without knowing much about this forum, the issue, or the person.

[PeruvianSkies]

Seeing as how you could totally rip apart my paragraphs, yet you could not express what you trying to point out shows your lack of consideration for people on this board. You think by quoting slumpbuster and saying "this is exactly what I have been attempting to point out all along", Shows that your point got across. Wrong it shows you lack the skills needed to communicate with others. If you think I was being dis respectful think again. Respect it not given. Just cause you started a forum or web page doesnt mean you earned respect from a single one. It shows you put up a page where people could come and discuss subject s pertaining to audio. If your a leader or think you are then you need to evaluate your performance. Like many others once they are higher then other people they think they know everything. To be a leader or a teacher you have to know how to communicate your lessons, or ideas. By communicate I mean get them across in a way that any person regardless of age, race, or intelligence, could understand. So far you have not. The only thing you have proven or shown is that my typing is not up to par with yours, and neither is my grammar.

You cannot teach those who do not wish to learn.

[imported101]

Yes, another great point. You cannot teach those who do not wish to learn. Thanks for admitting that. I never said I would argue with the president on the first day. Thank you though for trying to read between the lines. I know a dozed people who are just as successful as you at your age and younger. But hey I dont say all these people love their jobs cause of me...see I d let them speak for themself rather then make an assumption on how great a manager I think I am. Which is what you just did. You have no proof, no anything except your quote. I dont disagree with you on what your saying I disagree on how you went about it but like you said above you cannot teach those who are not wish to learn. So thank you for telling me point blankly and everyone else noone could ever teach you anything cause you do not wish to learn. This is not an assumption, this is exactly what you, yourself has said. Now maybe your this great big billlionaire which has actually done the things you say you have. Maybe your some low life who has nothing else but to disagree and point out failures in others. See I didnt point out a failure, I pointed out where I think the ideas of some are ridiculous and undercutting of people who dont get a chance to defend them self. Yet instead of protecting those people who cant you chose to protect those people who made the mistake of making obscene comments about employees of a company you cant even rival. So keep on quoting me and telling me where your greater then me...cause I love to learn unlike you. I learn about people 24-7. I respect others when respect has been shown or earned. I expect no less of those around me. I make sure when I speak to someone face to face I look them directly in the eye so they know I am speaking to them and there is no mistake. I lead others daily and people follow. Not cause its their job, see cause I do this outside of work to. I speak to people who you take advice from. People that have a greater influence over everyone. And yet those same people listen to me and understand me. They dont judge my decisions, nor my lack of grammar. Instead like true leaders they listen to what the person is saying, not where they missed a coma or misspelled a word. So yes were very different, I dont quote what I think others think of me or what Ive accomplished be cause its juvenile.

[imported101]

While you quote me at add things like "on...and on....and on......" Please remember this is what shows that even my comments as harsh as they might be still affect you. So if some person on your forum thats a "newbie" can affect you that easy, well lets just say I d hate to see what would happen to you in public when someone did the same thing. You may put on a front and act like your beyond what Im saying but every little comment you make, every little movement you make, every little blink, and every little fidget is a sign. So dont mistake me for some newbie fool, of judget me anymore then you already have cause it took one response from you for me to figure out how to get to you and find out how high you hold your self. Lack of correct grammar does not mean lack of intelligence. Lack of agreement with peruvian skies views does not equal lack of intelligence. Some one who likes to point out where Im wrong in grammar but miss everything of what I was talking about, shows that you lack respect for your board members. You disagree with people that oppose you unless they have perfect grammar. Which in the end shows a lack of individuality.
Individuality - the interests of the individual as distinguished from the interests of the community.
So I only started on here to respond to someone that ripped on employees of a company cause I thought it was arrogant, juvenile, and plain stupid. You not only as a leader agreed and protected that individual, you then proceeded to attack me on little minor things such as grammar. Apparently its a big thing to you, maybe change your forum to something to do with grammar if its such a big passion of yours. Or at least put it in the guidelines. But dont strike someone down for not meeting your standards. Cause every one has a different view.

[PeruvianSkies]

Yes, another great point. You cannot teach those who do not wish to learn. Thanks for admitting that.

SURE, NO PROBLEM.

I never said I would argue with the president on the first day. Thank you though for trying to read between the lines.

HOW WAS I SUPPOSE TO INTEPRET WHAT YOU SAID? SINCE YOU DID NOT SPECIFY IF IT WAS THE FIRST DAY OR NOT.

I know a dozed people who are just as successful as you at your age and younger.

NAME THEM. DO THEY KNOW YOU?

But hey I dont say all these people love their jobs cause of me...see I d let them speak for themself rather then make an assumption on how great a manager I think I am.

PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA SINCE THEY CAN PROBABLY SPELL.

Which is what you just did. You have no proof, no anything except your quote.

AND THIS MEANS?

I dont disagree with you on what your saying I disagree on how you went about it but like you said above you cannot teach those who are not wish to learn.

RIGHT, AND YOU ARE UNWILLING TO LEARN, SO THIS IS POINTLESS.


So thank you for telling me point blankly and everyone else noone could ever teach you anything cause you do not wish to learn.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

This is not an assumption, this is exactly what you, yourself has said. Now maybe your this great big billlionaire which has actually done the things you say you have.

NOPE, I DO NOT MAKE ALOT OF MONEY, BUT I LOVE WHAT I DO, THAT'S WORTH MORE THAN ANY DOLLAR AMOUNT.


Maybe your some low life who has nothing else but to disagree and point out failures in others.

YOU POINT THEM OUT FOR YOURSELF.

See I didnt point out a failure, I pointed out where I think the ideas of some are ridiculous and undercutting of people who dont get a chance to defend them self.

WHO ARE YOU DEFENDING AGAIN?

Yet instead of protecting those people who cant you chose to protect those people who made the mistake of making obscene comments about employees of a company you cant even rival.

HUH???

So keep on quoting me and telling me where your greater then me...cause I love to learn unlike you.

WHEN DID I SAY I WAS GREATER THAN ANYONE? EVERYONE IS EQUAL. I LOVE TO LEARN.


I learn about people 24-7.

PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE AS ALL HUMAN BEINGS MUST SLEEP.

I respect others when respect has been shown or earned.

I DON'T THINK YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS.

I expect no less of those around me. I make sure when I speak to someone face to face I look them directly in the eye so they know I am speaking to them and there is no mistake.

GOOD IDEA.

I lead others daily and people follow.

IN A CIRCLE???

Not cause its their job, see cause I do this outside of work to. I speak to people who you take advice from. People that have a greater influence over everyone. And yet those same people listen to me and understand me.

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY?

They dont judge my decisions, nor my lack of grammar.

IT'S HARD TO CORRECT GRAMMAR WHEN YOU ARE SPEAKING.

Instead like true leaders they listen to what the person is saying, not where they missed a coma or misspelled a word.

I HOPE YOU DON'T MISS YOUR NEXT COMA.

So yes were very different, I dont quote what I think others think of me or what Ive accomplished be cause its juvenile.

The End.

[imported101]

Hey buddy you may have broken it down again and pointed out your little opinions or comments. Yet again showing how little you are. The people I was standing up for were sales people in general, like your member was ripping on. O and yes those people that I talk to know me, probably some which you should learn from seeing as how they are very well known business men, professors, and quite a few others. Keep pointing out where I miss a coma, or mis spell a word. Good job your 27 and acting like a 12yr old by doing that. Yes physically impossible to learn 24 7 but seeing as how I know if you had any hint of intelligence you d understand what I meant. Which is I love to learn at any minute that I can or have a chance to. You said "I never said I would argue with the president on the first day. Thank you though for trying to read between the lines.

HOW WAS I SUPPOSE TO INTEPRET WHAT YOU SAID? SINCE YOU DID NOT SPECIFY IF IT WAS THE FIRST DAY OR NOT.
Funny you ask, go back and read what you said. You wrote something along the lines of you would never disagree with the president on the first day(ding ding right where you tried to interpret what I meant) you would wait till you were with the company longer and had proven your self before disagreeing. Because then your words would mean more and be more respected and heard. HMMMM for someone that corrects alot you sure have a forget ful mind. O the only thing you have said that is somewhat remotely intelligent tonight is this..
NOPE, I DO NOT MAKE ALOT OF MONEY, BUT I LOVE WHAT I DO, THAT'S WORTH MORE THAN ANY DOLLAR AMOUNT.
and the only thing I would agree with.

[imported101]

o by the way your little side notes in my post......juvenile.
dont disagree with you on what your saying I disagree on how you went about it but like you said above you cannot teach those who are not wish to learn.

RIGHT, AND YOU ARE UNWILLING TO LEARN, SO THIS IS POINTLESS.

Apparently you think you are qualified enough to teach me, and correct me. Quite arrogant.

[imported101]

I lead people everyday. Nope not in a circle. Sorry your not understanding a word of what I say cause of my grammar. Or wait is it cause thats all your focused on? Cause it annoys you the most? Lol. Maybe if you actually asked a intelligent question, or listened and responded to the text, not the grammar, you might not have this discussion going on and on and on. But seeing how its obvious that you think your smarter, and you want me to basically bow to you, its a waste of time to try to expand your mind beyond your limited borders.

[imported101]

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, but you definately have a way of bringing it out. See I hate cocky people.

[PeruvianSkies]

Hey buddy you may have broken it down again and pointed out your little opinions or comments. Yet again showing how little you are. The people I was standing up for were sales people in general, like your member was ripping on. O and yes those people that I talk to know me, probably some which you should learn from seeing as how they are very well known business men, professors, and quite a few others. Keep pointing out where I miss a coma, or mis spell a word. Good job your 27 and acting like a 12yr old by doing that. Yes physically impossible to learn 24 7 but seeing as how I know if you had any hint of intelligence you d understand what I meant. Which is I love to learn at any minute that I can or have a chance to. You said "I never said I would argue with the president on the first day. Thank you though for trying to read between the lines.

HOW WAS I SUPPOSE TO INTEPRET WHAT YOU SAID? SINCE YOU DID NOT SPECIFY IF IT WAS THE FIRST DAY OR NOT.
Funny you ask, go back and read what you said. You wrote something along the lines of you would never disagree with the president on the first day(ding ding right where you tried to interpret what I meant) you would wait till you were with the company longer and had proven your self before disagreeing. Because then your words would mean more and be more respected and heard. HMMMM for someone that corrects alot you sure have a forget ful mind. O the only thing you have said that is somewhat remotely intelligent tonight is this..
NOPE, I DO NOT MAKE ALOT OF MONEY, BUT I LOVE WHAT I DO, THAT'S WORTH MORE THAN ANY DOLLAR AMOUNT.
and the only thing I would agree with.

You are the one who does not read what is written. I am not the administrator for this website, ERICL is and you can read that right beside his AVATAR.

I said that what you did was like arguing with the president on the first day of work and you said, that you would argue with them. You didn't specify that it was NOT on the first day, so anyone would assume that you meant that you would argue on the first day, which I think you probably would since you run your mouth before knowing the facts. You have proved that tonight. You come here without knowing anything about this place or the people here and quickly jumped all over ERICL without good reason or intent. You went about it so disrespectfully and you can't accept the fact that I am defending him and making you look rediculous in the process. Everyone else who reads this will think the same. You have wasted enough of my time, but others should get a good chuckle out of this thread.

[imported101]

Good I hope they get a good chuckle there buddy. Lol. Sorry for the mistake, see I am willing to admit mine when i make them. Yet you cant. O ya and your the only moron going off on grammar yet others actually had valid points, yes they ripped on me as well but they did not proceed to drag on pointless sh*t like grammar issues. Maybe you all laugh at me that is fine your entitled to your own opinion on that and I would judge you for it. Unlike you have done to me. So peace out, like I said I hate cocky people. And you have gone over board on proving your one of those little cocky people. Yet if Im such a waste of your time, why did you keep responding all night? Yet if anyone gets a chuckle out of this it should also show them how ridiculous you have acted. You have proven that newbies that express their feelings about something are not welcome. Thank you for that at least other forums are professional and allow members to debate regardless of their grammar, or their status on a little forum. Oh and they dont freak out when someone disagrees.

[imported101]

And peruvianskies one more thing. If you d like to point out how smart you are. Next time look at what you write and realize everything you said was to point out how stupid I am, and make fun of me. Yet what I wrote back mostly pointed out how your not a good leader, how you didnt respond to what I said(only grammar), and how others had to explain in their words what you meant cause you lacked the communication skills to be able to. Yet YOU HAVE RECEIVED A A+ IN GRAMMAR CLASS.

[PeruvianSkies]

Troll? Gargle your sack? lol man wow this forum is a class act.

If you have such a problem with this forum and such than why don't you just leave? I only admit I am wrong when I am wrong. Hopefully you are done and can find another forum that is more understanding to your ways.

[imported101]

lol you only admit your wrong when you think you are??????? holy crap man...are you that ridiculous. So you judge whats right and wrong in your opinion. WOW, then bring up a post from what like a hour ago yet you lacked the intelligence to write that line when that post was posted?????? oh my lord man.

[imported101]

Here you are again wasting your precious time on such a idiot like me right? No worries your the only guy I dislike on here. All the others even if they did disagree have actually done so in a appropriate way.

[PeruvianSkies]

And peruvianskies one more thing. If you d like to point out how smart you are. Next time look at what you write and realize everything you said was to point out how stupid I am, and make fun of me. Yet what I wrote back mostly pointed out how your not a good leader, how you didnt respond to what I said(only grammar), and how others had to explain in their words what you meant cause you lacked the communication skills to be able to. Yet YOU HAVE RECEIVED A A+ IN GRAMMAR CLASS.

Others have not responded to your useless babblings because they made one smart move and that was not to fall victim to your troll*-ish ways.

*a troll is someone who posts derogatory or otherwise inflammatory messages about sensitive topics in an established online community such as an online discussion forum to bait users into responding.

I'd say you fit that description to a T!!!

[imported101]

Why dont you take the next hour again like all posts before, and decipher what Ive written then correct my grammar. And in that hour maybe you might be able to find a actual opinion other then grammar correction, other then Im just a idiot, and o wait other then someone elses f*****words.....

[imported101]

lol ok but yet you have responded and fallen victim so we agree they were smart and you were stupid

[imported101]

And troll is incorrect. If the topic was so sensitive maybe they should have thought about not posting something the puts down others because they think those people are useless or stupid. Which is exactly what your protecting, your protecting people who think their above others. Not people who actually have a decent thing to say with actual intelligence to back it. They posted random demeaning comments.
demeaning- that demeans; debasing; degrading.

[imported101]

But I d have to say man, I got on here with just the intention of talking to some people letting them know that some of those so called "pimple faced kids" actually enjoy and know what they are talking about. And that those "pimple faced kids" could do a lot more for you if the company listened to them and allowed them. If you want to degrade some person like that then it shows you lack more then intelligence, or consideration. I just wanted to express that those kids probably know just as much as some of you if not more then most of you, the problem lies in management, and customers with attitudes like yours. Customers that come in and immediately put them down by listing off some crap they read online. Its like listening to some random person who reads a newspaper and puts down soldiers in Iraq for what they do, or believing that they are baby killers. You should understand, if you manage so many employees, what its like to have to deal with attitudes like that every day. To be put down by people like that everyday yet still carry on with a smile to the next customer. A lot of the employees will get younger at these retail stores cause its easier to get them at a lower rate. And companies think its easier to control and manipulate them. Cause like you they think they are smarter. You couldn't be more wrong. But with younger employees comes bigger challenges. Cause customers who share you point of view dont listen to the advice the give, then ruin their speakers, amps, tvs, and computers. Then those same ones come in at 31 days after purchase and want a refund. So when I hear people put down others who I have worked beside in the past, with out fully understanding whats really going on inside those stores all the way up the corporate ladder and all the way down to the consumer, then yes I get offended.

[Feanor]

...
As for the war on the middle class, here's something I always thought was suspect (hopefully I'm not high jacking the thread too much :D):
....
While a certain amount of this was driven by consumer demand, I always felt that another good portion was driven by outside pressure. Its a spend, spend, spend mentality.
...
Certainly, a certain amount of consumerism is a good thing. But there is a limit. At some point consumerism will slow and/or shift, and many retailers will be left holding the bag. i.e. the housing market cools and every stand around with their d!cks in their hands wondering what happened to Home Depot.
...


Hi, Slump,

I'd say you're not hijacking the thread very far, anyway. After all, it is about the current economy and the consequences of it.

First an aside to our young friend, importer: hey guy, this thread is fundamentally sympathetic to the CC employees. If you don't see that, you've missed the point.


Consumerism is not entirely or even mainly, spontaneaous with the consumers. Consumerism -- and consumer credit -- have be carefully cultivated by the economic establishment for many years. It's not sufficient that the working person's money be extracted as soon as he/she earns it, it has to be grabbed months or years before that. That's what consumer credit is about: the modern version of old-fashioned "peonage". See the definition from Dictionary.com ...
pe·on·age:




the condition or service of a peon.
the practice of holding persons in servitude or partial slavery, as to work off a debt or to serve a penal sentence.
(Old-fashion peonage still very much exists in the world in, for the Dominican Republic, where destitute Haitian sugar cane workers are held by contracts whereby they must live in company-provided accomodation and buy food at company-own stores for relatively exorbitant prices.)

[thekid]

While Peruvian and Import compare Mensa scores........... :) I thought I would/wood/wuld comment on the topic......... :)

I think the move is typical of a lot of management practices we see in business today(Thank you Jack Walsh). When you want impress Wall Street you fire a large segment of your workforce and claim you are restructuring your business. This usually either temporarily halts the slide of the company stock price or causes the stock price to rise (which usually rewards members of management who have stock options-which they sell to feather their nest) Some investment firm convinced that the company management is serious about addressing the core business problems loans the company some money which they usually use not to address the underlying problems but to construct a new ad campaign to convince the the public that the company is now "new and improved" while in reality it is usually in a slow death spiral which lasts until the company's cash reserves run out or it no longer can raise operating capital.

IMO-The problem that CC faces is that it waited too long to upgrade their stores so the public drifted over to BB which had at the time newer/cleaner stores. They reduced their product lines in order to try and compete on cost with BB and now they are facing stiff competition from places like Wal-Mart on the few remaining big ticket products they do carry. BB made the right move IMO by going the other direction and incorporating the Magnolia concept into their stores because it allows them to have products that Wal-Mart, Target etc won't be able to offer and gives them an image of being a more upscale/serious provider of audio/video products than CC and to some degree Fry's.

[bobsticks]

Why do I feel like the kid at the T-shirt concession stand at a Fall Out Boy show just put his cell phone down long enough to chastize me?

[markw]

Then, somebody came in and started posting larges blocks of words with no separation of ideas, which, when trying to read, is virtually incomprehensible.

If one actually has something to say and actually wants to be understood, then one should learn to write in a readable style. While one might have something interesting to say but it it's spit out as gibberish, then it might not be worth the trouble to try to decipher it form all that.

Anybody can string words together endlessly but to organize them in a readable format takes a little more effort. It's not the number of words used, but the way they are arranged. Sometimes, the fewer words used, the clearer the thoughts conveyed.

One should learn to clearly separate their thoughts. Learn what paragraphs are and how they can be used to separate and clarify ideas. Try to keep it to one or two ideas per paragraph.

Anyhow, as for circuit city, well, I can't recall the last time I was in one and they didn't have at least one HTIB blasting so loud the woofers weren't breaking up and, the few times they were talking to the customers, they were saying how that was an indication of how much bass they have, There was never anyone in the little audio "back rooms" and nobody ever came in to ask me if I needed any help when I went in there and looked arounfd for a few minutes. Is that any way to sell stereos? I don't think so.

As for the TV section, they play all TV's from a satellite feed and won't play a DVD (even when the sets have a built in DVD player) or a SD program on a HD set. Is that any way to sell TV's? I don't think so.

Computers? Well, I've had mixed experiences wit these guys. I went in asking for a flash drive they had on sale and the guy said he didn't have any. I pointed to several that were right behind him in a case.

I will say their autosound selection, crew ,and service is pretty good for civilians like me. Perhaps autosound freaks may want more, I can't say, but as for Joe Sixpack and myself, I'd say we're pretty happy with them.

In fact, I'll go even better than that. I was in there about a month after the XM/Sirus merger was announced (picking up a DVD when it first came out) and stopped in the autosound section to see what's up with this because we were thinking of getting it in at least one of the cars. Instead of trying to sell me on a receiver then, he said I should wait until the mud settles and they come out with a universal receiver. Noe THAT'S the kind of advice that will make me come back.

[Dusty Chalk]

Does that mean I'm not going to get any of your vitriol?

Yes, I said "vitriol." A word I learned in college and did not cut and paste from Wikipedia. And note, I even spelled it right.You mean, you spelled it correctly.

[audio_dude]

AHAHAHAHAH!!!! damn guys, i just spent the last 20 minutes reading this thread. (Save all the incomprehensible **** import101 has been posting ;))

Now, I have just one thing to say to Import101: PWNED!

Get the hell out of here you troll, you think we'd enjoy dicussing AUDIO on an AUDIO forum if we didn't know as much about AUDIO as those pimple faced kids at CC?

I should know, as a 15 year old who probably knows more about sales/negotiating/audio than you'll ever know, it is very amusing to read this. I've been to BB, CC, Future Shop and all those other stores, and just for a spot on fun I like to chat with a sales rep. and talk to them about audio and laughing at how little they know.

Now go away troll, go find a new board to bash members on.

[imported101]

Markw and thekid both good points. Markw as far as going in there and having the bass blasting a way that actually has to do directly with the management. Customers have asked sales associates to turn it down and they do. Five minutes later a manager will walk by and tell them to crank it up because they think thats what attracts customers into that area. Thekid as far as updating the stores, that has been a topic employees had talked about for years. The response was it cost to much money and wouldnt make that big of a difference. The tv s at bb and cc are both on loops, or just satellite. Select demos are ran on dvds. Basically to show off a better picture. Yes it sucks not having ota tv, dvds, and hd tv all to one tv to show the differences for customers. The cost is the issue once again.
As far as Audio dude or whatever, I came on here just to talk about some issues about cc city and the firing. There s no talk what so ever about audio on this page. Maybe the other sections are talking about audio but this one is talking about circuit city, and their poor decision. If your so smart though why go into the stores to supposedly show off your skills? Or how much you know? Do you really think anyone cares? Cause half those sales people laugh at you when you leave. The only people your impressing are people like your self who go online to brag about it. Which means you could continously lie and people would believe your little stories. So if you dont like me talking about cc city or tearing into people who tore into me, then mind your own business. And lastly, sorry once again for my incorrect grammar cause apparently all of you are perfect at it.

[imported101]

I should know, as a 15 year old who probably knows more about sales/negotiating/audio than you'll ever know, it is very amusing to read this. I've been to BB, CC, Future Shop and all those other stores, and just for a spot on fun I like to chat with a sales rep. and talk to them about audio and laughing at how little they know.

Seriously your statement right there shows, how little you know. And hey way to use another members comment as your own, cause you find it empowering to jump on the band wagon.

[imported101]

I d love to meet half of you in real life and see what you really have to say to people face to face I mean its pretty easy to hide behind your key board, look up info the post it as something you know. I joined this web page cause I thought it would be fun to chat about audio, talk to people about their opinions on different things. But apparently you all share one opinion. That is- you all are smarter than any one else, especially pimple faced kids at cc......lol

[imported101]

Just so you all know. I did not get on here to put people down. I did not get on here to say I was smarter than anyone. I got on here and responded to someones generalization of a group of workers. Now if you cant see that or understand that because of my failure to put a coma there or a period here, all that shows is a communication problem. When you feel that correcting my grammar is the way to correct me or show that I am incorrect your wrong. What your showing is your own inability to communicate with those around you. Writing is now always meant to be grammatically correct, those are just rules. Like any other rule everyone breaks it. Just cause I may not share the ability all of you do by using correct grammar does not mean I dont have a point or a thought. Thats what you have assumed. In retaliation you have used my grammar as a negative. What all of you didnt realize was my grammar has nothing to do with anything. You can claim it makes it hard for you to understand my thoughts, but it just shows you cant communicate with those around you. I can express my self verbally to each and everyone of you and you would understand, yet when I wrote it out you couldnt. I only stood up against someone that made a generalization, because to me it stupid. If you want to generalize a type of worker you might as well generalize races, athletes, and countries. You would be the same as someone that said africans use sounds as a language there fore we are superior because they communicate like animals(which is not my belief). You d be the same to say that because a particular asian persons name is ping pong that asian s throw pots against a wall to make names for their children. Thats how broad that generalization of "pimple faced employees was...." Now if you like to associate with that type of crowd so be it.
Lastly, If all of you think that Im a idiot or a pimply faced sales associate then why respond. If my words are that ridiculous then any smart person would have just ignored them and not responded to them. But while claiming you all were smarter then me and others, you failed to prove you were. Instead you proved you were as stupid as you think I am if not further down the pole. If you d like to continue to beat up on my words and use them to make me look like a fool please do.

But check this out, most the people I have agreed with on this thread also put me down for various reasons. But I still pointed out that they had a good point backed up by a good argument. Yet none of you did anything at all but gang up on one person who had a different view.

Lastly, if your going to put up post about circuit city and others and say well they are doing this wrong, make sure your not stealing the words your using from local newspapers and online news articles. And if your going to use those articles you should at least give respect to the people who wrote them, and not allow every one to assume you thought it up yourself. Cause many of you so far have stolen articles and not given reference to the real author, instead you quoted them as your own.

[imported101]

And sorry about the two lastly's I screwed up.

[jrhymeammo]

as much as I wanna post here and put an end to Peru's usual/nagging replies, I simply dont wanna read all this crap.

Hey imported101,
it's just Peruvian. You will learn about him more if you'll stick around longer. But you gotta try to stay calm. Regular members here dont like newbies arguing again them. We can be a bit arragant from time to time.
Just wait until Resident Loser gets here...

[markw]

You talk too much and say too little. Up the content to word ratio.

And, yes, your writing style is an indication of your education and experience, the two main things that count here. People don't usually crack on grammar or spelling (unless it's totally out of hand) but reading posts should not be an onerous task, and your shotgunwordswithnobreaksbetweenthoughts style makes it so. Heck, I give up after the first two-three lines and I don't feel I'm missing anything.

If you can't (or won't even bother to) communicate your thoughts clearly and concisely, you come off as a child that lacks the skills the real world expects of an adult. Why should anyone bother?

And, people here don't mind arguments. Heck, we thrive on them. They just prefer them presented in a coherent manner, not sheer babbling., Try dazzling us with brilliance rather than trying to baffle/impress with jumbled word count, which reeks of BS. If salespeople there and use of this this technique on the customers is common, I can see what precipitated this action.

And, I can safely say that virtually anyone who has been here for more than a few moths and has been paying attention DOES know more than virtually anyone at Circuit City, Best Buy, and the rest of the big box stores. An educated consumer is not in those stores best interest. It only takes a few minutes for an educated consumer to see through the hype and lose all respect for the salesperson and the chain.

[audio_dude]

I should know, as a 15 year old who probably knows more about sales/negotiating/audio than you'll ever know, it is very amusing to read this. I've been to BB, CC, Future Shop and all those other stores, and just for a spot on fun I like to chat with a sales rep. and talk to them about audio and laughing at how little they know.

Seriously your statement right there shows, how little you know. And hey way to use another members comment as your own, cause you find it empowering to jump on the band wagon.


What the f*cking hell are you talking about??

Please elaborate how my statement shows in any way how little knowledge i posses?
And please explain your second statement also, it does not make sense to me. And since when have I found it empowering to "jump on the bandwagon"?

Man, lost your reputation before you even got it! GET A LIFE! Why oh why do you come back and write post after post of meaningless nonsense that no one reads!
It's people like you that drive me INSANE! :incazzato:

*eye twitches*

Someone PLEASE get me a beer.


(PS. It looks like Import101 found the comma key!)

[Smokey]

And, I can safely say that virtually anyone who has been here for more than a few moths and has been paying attention DOES know more than virtually anyone at Circuit City, Best Buy, and the rest of the big box stores. An educated consumer is not in those stores best interest. It only takes a few minutes for an educated consumer to see through the hype and lose all respect for the salesperson and the chain.


Also to be fair here, most salespersons (even those with higher knowledge) probably are persuaded to act in store’s best interest. Promoting Monster cable might a good example.

Salesperson might be well aware of all hypes surrounding cable issues, but probably will be persuaded to push Monster cables as it will make money for store. He/she will tell you Monster cables are best even if they don’t believe it themselves.

I have met salespersons in BB or CC that were knowledgeable and working their way thru college, and have met some that would make a better Usher than saleperson :D
With recent CC firing, we might see more of latter than the former.

[PeruvianSkies]

Also to be fair here, most salespersons (even those with higher knowledge) probably are persuaded to act in store’s best interest. Promoting Monster cable might a good example.

Salesperson might be well aware of all hypes surrounding cable issues, but probably will be persuaded to push Monster cables as it will make money for store. He/she will tell you Monster cables are best even if they don’t believe it themselves.

I have met salespersons in BB or CC that were knowledgeable and working their way thru college, and have met some that would make a better Usher than saleperson :D
With recent CC firing, we might see more of latter than the former.

Smokey, you bring up a very good point and it made me think back to my days as a salesperson. I wanted to chime in with this thought...

When a person walks into CC or BB or whever...it's not obvious to a salesperson what that persons knowledge base is. The salesperson can only assume that the customer has little or no knowledge about the product, which is why they are there to help them out. Usually in conversation you can sometimes tell if a customer is knowledgable or not, but not all the time. Therefore, it becomes difficult to know what and how much to talk to them. There is a saying in the sales business that usually goes something like this...you want to give the customer enough to make them want something, but not too much that they don't. In other words: you don't want to oversell the product.

Let's use your example on Monster Cables. When I walk into BB or CC I see a huge selection of cables, but they are usually about 3 brands. Monster, Acoustic Research, and RocketFish. The best out of these 3 is probably Monster and they probably make BB or CC the most amount of profit. In fact, I know that they do. So the salesman needs to push these with every HDTV they sell or every HT they sell. These are easy add-on sales and sometimes goes into their commission sales. Since BB or CC does not carry anything higher-grade they are faced with a decision. Do I tell them that there are better cables out there and that they could probably save money elsewhere? Or make some profit for my company? Does this person really honestly care about small levels of quality? The majority of the people that they deal with don't care as much as we do here at this site. We are the rare people that sometimes frequent these stores and give them a run for their money because we are informed about these products, sometimes more than them and most often alot more than them.

However, they do not know that just by looking at us. An Audiophile doesn't have a big huge sign pointing to us...although we might be walking around with Grado Headphones all the time. I would also have to venture that most companies do not properly educate the salespeople and is more concerned about the bottom line. They (the company) does not really care WHAT the salesperson says as long as they meet their numbers. It's a cruel environment and both sides really lose out in the end.

[Florian]

I d love to meet half of you in real life and see what you really have to say to people face to face I mean its pretty easy to hide behind your key board, look up info the post it as something you know. I joined this web page cause I thought it would be fun to chat about audio, talk to people about their opinions on different things. But apparently you all share one opinion. That is- you all are smarter than any one else, especially pimple faced kids at cc......lol

You can look me up and even give me a call if you like :)

[audio_dude]

uh-oh, FLO's here... better run import101 ;)


(hey, that rhymes!)

[Woochifer]

Wow, never knew that Circuit City of all things could engender such passion for grammatical correctness! :cool:

Anyway, Circuit City's been circling the drain for sometime now. They got caught with their figurative pants down when Best Buy moved in on their entry level markets with bigger stores and a generally better shopping experience, and they did not stock a high enough level of product to support a commissioned sales staff.

When they moved their commissioned staffers over to hourly a few years ago, the consensus was that their already shaky customer service took a nose dive. Lots of unseasoned sales reps on the floor to go along with the bitter workers that stayed behind. Not a good combination. Right now, they're in a bad situation -- they lose money by continuing their existing operations, or cutting labor costs by further eroding their customer service and sales staff.

And Circuit City's not the only chain that tried this. The now-defunct Good Guys carried product lines a step above what CC and BB stocked. When they started bleeding red ink a few years ago, they kept only their top performing commissioned sales reps and laid off everybody else. That also created a schizophrenic shopping environment where the customer had no idea if they would get an experienced and competent sales rep, or some kid that just got hired that afternoon.

In actuality, the whole retail consumer electronics market is in a major transition, and that really affects the labor pool all the way from the manufacturing that's been outsourced overseas to the sales reps who continue to move further down the pecking order as retailers trade off on their customer service to reduce costs.

Right now, the size of the home audio component market is only about 1/3 of what it was in 1992 (in constant dollars). A lot of this is simply cost cutting (and increases in productivity) by the manufacturers, but a lot of it is also the ongoing transition to mobile and portable audio. Before they laid off most of their commissioned sales staff, Good Guys used to put their most experienced sales reps into home audio, because that market had the most demanding customers (and the highest margins). The newly hired sales reps were forced to work portable electronics -- less demanding customers but thinner margins. If you look at the market now, the fastest growing (and largest) segment is portable audio, while the market for home audio components continues to shrink. With those trends, it's easy to see how a corporate bean counter might view experienced sales staff as expendable, despite the havoc it creates at the customer service end.

The reality is that consumer electronics stores have fewer and fewer areas where they can still maintain sizable margins. The independent stores long ago went to home installation services to keep their storefronts open (components sales alone were far from enough to cover the overhead), and sales of flat panel TVs sustained the regional chains for a while. With flat panel TV margins falling rapidly, and even Best Buy (through its Magnolia subsidiary) now offering home installation services, retailers are once again struggling to find a niche that can support their operations.

Now, with the demise of Good Guys, Tweeter about to close 1/3 of its stores (including all of its California locations), CompUSA about to close 1/2 of its stores, and Circuit City struggling, it seems like it's all about Best Buy. Aside from their big box locations, they also own the Seattle-based Magnolia Audio Video chain (which they acquired in 2000), where they learned a lot about how to sell and cater to higher end consumers. Those standalone locations still retain their commissioned sales reps, and BB has now opened Magnolia Home Theater ministores across the country inside existing Best Buy stores. The Magnolia ministores differ from the larger standalone stores in that the sales reps that work at the ministores are paid hourly, but are paid more than the sales reps that work the Best Buy side of the floor.

It would truly be a sign of the times if Best Buy ever wound up closing the standalone Magnolia locations (by consolidating everything into their big box stores) and laying off the commissioned sales staff, despite how Best Buy didn't even have a presence in the higher end markets until they acquired the Magnolia brand and store locations.

[jrhymeammo]

uh-oh, FLO's here... better run import101 ;)


(hey, that rhymes!)

OMG... that is the sickest flo' I've heard in my life!!!
Feel free to call yourself ADeeRA from this day forward.

[thekid]

Just a quick update to this post. Our business section in the local paper did a quick article about this move. They mentioned that anyone making 51 cents per hour more than the normal CC wage was let go. I know in business every penny counts but you have to wonder if someone making $4-$10 a day more than someone else in the store is going to provide the "bang for your buck" that is going to turn the ship around. In the article it said officials from CC have countered the arguement that the cuts mean that less experienced audio/video salespeople will not hurt the company because most people get their audio/video advice/knowledge on the internet and do not need the help of salespeople like they used to in the past. I guess places like this site are really behind the downfall of the audio/video retail store........... :)

The article also quoted an expert in the audio retail business as saying that the store will be hard pressed to properly train the replacement workers in time for the holiday buying season and if they hire any of these people back their morale will be through the floor which might lead to associates performing poorly or somehow sabotaging the company. 3 fired associates have already filed a age discrimination law suit which most likely won't go anywhere because I suspect the demographics of the workers fired will be too wide to prove age discrimination but still CC will have to pay lawyers etc to fight what I am sure will be the first of many labor lawsuits. When you take into consideration the negative publicity, legal costs and lost sales/productivity related to the new sales staff this thing looks like a net loser for the company and is going to cost them more money in the long run.

My guess is that we will see some new ad campaign and probably some huge discounts being offered at CC in an attempt to get back some positive PR. Failing in that attempt and a less than positive holiday sales season next year we could see CC close a lot of stores within the next year.

[markw]

Being a publicly held company, they answer to their shareholders who invest in them and want (and deserve) profits for that. And, as a company should, it's main goal is to deliver that and if that means taking a hard look at how they fare in the current economy and make changes to adjust towards their main goal, then so be it..

What if, hypothetically, they simply gave in to the Internet and made that the main thrust of their marketin?

They could spiff up their web site, lower prices a little, downsize their traditional retail outlets big time and make them more of a plain warehouse/regional distribution center where they either ship out/deliver locally or allow customer pick ups. Oh, maybe offer custom home and auto-sound installations via appointment, but as far as the mega-stores with glitzy showrooms go, nah! Dinosaurs.

Of course, they might retain a small showroom with a token sales force (mainly for order taking) but with their main sales being done on the Internet, there's more potential for profit.

After all, in the scheme of American business thrir latest move doesn't really amount to a drop in the bucket for the American economy. Less than 100 people were affected here in New Jersey. While I don't really like any of my fellow Americans losing jobs, almost nothing they sell is made in the US of A and all they are is the final stage in the distribution of foreign made goods, which only serve to keep people in other countries employed.

Having been a steel worker in the late 70's, I've been there and have limited sympathy for people currently facing the reality of the global economy that I had to deal with twenty-five years ago. I didn't see any gnashing of teeth when the whole of the American consumer electronics industry was offshored overthe past thirty or more years. Likewise the auto manufacturing business. Why worry about a few unskilled salespeople now?

The horse is already ourt of the barn and he ain't coming back.

[Feanor]

...
Having been a steel worker in the late 70's, I've been there and have limited sympathy for people currently facing the reality of the global economy that I had to deal with twenty-five years ago. I didn't see any gnashing of teeth when the whole of the American consumer electronics industry was offshored overthe past thirty or more years. Likewise the auto manufacturing business. Why worry about a few unskilled salespeople now?

The horse is already ourt of the barn and he ain't coming back.

Another person would have more, not less, sympathy on account of having had your experience. And of course there was plenty of nashing of teeth -- but everyone went out and voted Reagan anyway: more fool them. When will Americans learn? (Speaking as a Canadian, maybe if Americans learn, we eventually will too despite the fact we're slower.)

[markw]

Another person would have more, not less, sympathy on account of having had your experience. And of course there was plenty of nashing of teeth -- but everyone went out and voted Reagan anyway: more fool them. When will Americans learn? (Speaking as a Canadian, maybe if Americans learn, we eventually will too despite the fact we're slower.)I was in my early 30's and it forced me to rethink my options and my future. I retrained into a more technical field and did better than I ever imagined I could do as a steelworker. I'm sure these people can and will do the same once.

But, at least as far as home audio/consumer electronics goes, this trend towards off-shoring went back to the late 60's and early 70's. Steel came much, much later in the time-line. By the early 70's, virtually all the big names in audio were manufactured overseas, save McIntosh. TV's were all on their way by then and by the 80's, you couldn't find a TV or mass-market stereo manufactured here.

In fact, now the offshore countries are finding that their manufacturing jobs are being outsourced to other developing countries who pay even less than they do, like China,

[thekid]

MarkW - Not really gnashing my teeth over this because it has become all too common place-my post was really to reflect on the absurdity of the move.

But reflecting on some of your comments I agree that the shareholders deserve a profit but as I alluded to in my first post on this subject, moves such as the one made by CC are usually all about Wall Street and the shareholders. They tend to give the appearance of managing a company when it is really a short-term/short sighted approach which in the long run hurts the shareholders. Some of the approaches you mention make sense over the long term but do not provide the "sizzle" that Wall Street often likes to see when a company looks to re-structure or change direction.

As for your comment "Why worry about a few unskilled salespeople" I think that despite what any of us does for a living that we should be concerned when we see moves such as the one done here by CC. While organized labor certainly has its faults and in a many ways can be held just as responsible for management for the loss of the industrial base in America they often served the function of protecting the average worker from the whims of management. In America we have all in a sense become "unskilled sales people" because we have become a service economy and with advances in technology almost any job can be outsourced. I understand the realities of the global economy and the pressure that it puts on the economy but as Feanor alluded to we need our politicians to take a serious look at how our economic policies fit into the global picture or we will all find ourselves re-applying for our same jobs whenever the global economy shifts a little.

[markw]

It's a retail store. And, this CC thing isn't even the tip of the iceberg. Actually, it's not even the iceberg.

And, you're right about the politicians having to do something about the "common worker" and a living wage.

Whatever happened to that concept of a "living wage" anyway?

Well, it seems that as long as there are people willintg to work for less $$, people tendd to look the other way. And. even more to the issue, businesses actually encourage it. After a while, it becomes an ingrained part of how business operates and by the time this happens, the wage base has been destroyed.

Look at your landscapers. Who do they hire? Look at your restaurants? Who busses tables? Other examples abound but these just corssed my path today. Do you really think if these positions paid a living wage they would have to resort to this?

No, if we can't manufacture products here cheap enough, we have them made overseas. Look at Wal Mart. China's main outlet here in the states. ..and their lot is packed with people willing to send their money there.

Now, who forces these prices down? We do. By going someplace where you can save a few pennies.

And this hobby is most ceretainly responsible for a lot of this, particularly where Circuit City is concerned. How many times do you se somebody asking where's the cheapest place to buy such and such. Odds are they went and saw said item in CC, BB or the like but rather than pay a price that can keep the B & M afloat, they go internet and save a few dollars. And, before someone says they charge too much and/or make too much money, I suggest you see what their actual profit margins are and the costs involved in running a B & M.

And, if we can't get locals to work cheap enough, we encourage an influx of, let's just say, "undocumented workers" who will work for less. you can see them massed at certain locations artound towns. Pickup trucks drive up, they pile in and off they go. I replaced my landscaper when he said he used illegal, errr... , make that undocumentented, aliens. And, then they petition for the same rights and priviliges as the locals? Actually, more when you figure in free medical care, bilingual schools and the rest.

Even hospitals are doing this, although I don't think they use illegals per se. I do know that they dress up barely skilled labor in scrubs and they have them doing a lot of chores that were hostoricaly performed by nurses in the past. I do some tutoring in a local school that trains these "health aids" and, lemmetellya, they aren't anywhere near what is expected of a nurse.

And you wonder why wages have dropped off the charts?

So, bottom line is that if you want a future, you better be damn good at what you do and make sure it can't be done over the internet.

[thekid]

So, bottom line is that if you want a future, you better be damn good at what you do and make sure it can't be done over the internet.

Agreed!

I know CC is not considered part of the service industry but I basically boil things down to either you produce a tangible product (manufacturing) or you don't (service). With the advent of the internet the only edge your traditonal retail outlets have is the service/convenience they provide.

You are right about prices we are willing to pay and the long term effects. I don't know where it will all end but I think cheap prices and cheap labor will chase itself all over the world until we eventually settle into some sort of equalibrium but I think it is going to be a long and painful process.

[eisforelectronic]

I see this move as a continuation of the layoffs they did a few years ago. Basically all my friends that survived those original layoffs were then grandfathered in at hourly rates equal to their hourly comission average. This was at the same time that CC moved all salespeople to hourly wages. All of the people I know who were just layed off in this latest round were the same ones who were at those grandfathered rates. A few of them had just made 10 years with the company about 6 months ago.

[royphil345]

It still seems that nobody's really gotten to the heart of the matter here. Circuit City posted an almost 16 million dollar loss last quarter. Being publicly owned, they simply had no choice but to take any drastic measures possible to try and keep the doors open. The business model utilized by Circuit City could no longer compete with companies who paid employees less. Americans chose to favor the competitor who paid their employees less and again brought down the wages of an entire industry.

Do you blame Circuit City who tried to stick with a more traditional business model and paid employees better? Do you blame the competition who never cared about paying employees well for forcing Circuit City to change in order to remain in business? Really, you can blame us consumers for continuing to do business with those enslaving Americans. Some people tried to warn us, but we didn't fully understand the importance of what they were saying. Now, as slave wages have become the norm in many industries and most of the "good guys" have been put out of business... we find saving this country would be a much more difficult task...

"I don't know where it will all end but I think cheap prices and cheap labor will chase itself all over the world until we eventually settle into some sort of equalibrium..."

The "eqalibrium" will be serfs dominated by an elite as is the case throughout much of the world today and throughout history. The Constitution and all American law is based on NATIONALISM. "Globalism" and "corporatism" are treasonous, criminal lies being used to steal the USA and enslave the population. People are voting for slavery with their dollars. American workers are being forced to "compete" with SLAVES for jobs both here and abroad. How the heck can you compete with an oppressed slave for a job without becoming one? You just can't... The end result of all this will be tyranny as enjoyed by the populations of other countries today and throughout the ages. This will be the "equalibrium" if somebody doesn't stand up and defend freedom, The Constitution, nationalism, and American law.

Also, it's easy to pay unfairly low wages without fear of being unable to fill the jobs when "our" government treasonously does nothing to prevent a massive foreign invasion and resulting surplus of 3rd world slave labor.

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/may2006/270506massamnesty.htm
(this is older, but the amnesty bill is going up again now)

[thekid]

Royphil

Don't disagree with you.
One of the points I was trying to make was that the cost cutting always seems to start at the bottom. Understandably they constitute the largest share of the work force but when companies make these moves they never seem to be proportionate. The gap keeps widening.......

[daviethek]

[QUOTE=thekid]Royphil

Don't disagree with you.
One of the points I was trying to make was that the cost cutting always seems to start at the bottom.

Of course it does.

With 5,000 new For Sale signs in Detroit neighborhoods, Ford's CEO made 28 million this year, worked 10 months and is going to introduce a revamped "Taurus" to save the company. I don'tknow what that has to do with Circuit City, I'm just mad at American Car Companies.

[thekid]

Daviethek

You have provided a perfect example........

I worked for GM years back and it is maddening to see the big 3 constantly repeating their mistakes