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likeitloud
03-27-2007, 06:15 PM
While having some maintance done on my VSX1015TX ie; speaker protector, 1 pre amp
rca jack, I asked the guy to test it up to clipping, which he did untill the breaker tripped.
The 3 front channels came out at 141wpc, the surrounds were not done, at my request.
At an advertised output of 120wpc, it's nice to get what you pay for, and then some for
once. This has been a very nice unit in 14 months of major sessions of very loud playing,
and long hours of being powered up, driving various amps. A well spent $370. It
also performs it's home theater duties very well.

Rock789
03-27-2007, 09:14 PM
is this receiver rated 120 watts / channel with all channels driven?
the power supply may be the limiting factor... with only the front channels being tested, the power supply has plenty capacity...

kexodusc
03-28-2007, 04:01 AM
I performed a test on a few receivers maybe 2 years ago now - my old RX-V1400, a Denon and Onkyo model some others brought too. Oh, and a whole bunch of power amps.

We generally found that all the receivers, even the cheap ones performed well above their specs for generous amounts of time. The measured power output dipped after a sustained period of time of being fed a signal though, maybe a minute or two? I think the FTC rating spec requires 5 minutes or something? No matter, some high quality amps performed the same way, I'm not surprised those beefy Pioneers keep up well.

As for the all-channels driven thing - it's nice to do that measurement to create an arbitrary number that looks higher than the competition's. It's great if you are using your receiver as a toaster. But that test puts a demand on amps that will not occur in music or movies, so it really doesn't translate into an advantage in practice. So while amp A may do well at the all channels driven test, in practice, another amp that does worse at the all-channels driven test may match or even outperform it during movie or music playback.
Despite all the liberties some companies take with the 100 watt X 7 ratings, those really are more appropriate for multi-channel audio (assuming their honest, and the conditions are the same) as they reflect better the type of demands these amps face.

Moral of the story? Anytime you see a company claim it's ratings are more "honest" or real than another's, it should raise a flag. They all use spin to their advantage.

Audioholics has an excellent article on the "All-Channels Driven Fallacy".
http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/the-all-channels-driven-acd-amplifier-test

likeitloud
03-28-2007, 04:01 AM
is this receiver rated 120 watts / channel with all channels driven?
the power supply may be the limiting factor... with only the front channels being tested, the power supply has plenty capacity...

Yes, it's rated at 120x7, and there was no load on all the outputs, Still the tech says it's
rare for a av receiver to be "over", it's usually 5-10 watts "under". Also the amplifier is a
mosfet amp, which explains why it's so smooth, the more volume is used. It's a good
receiver to use on it's own with no amp, if your on a budget and can't get to that upgrade
right away.

likeitloud
03-28-2007, 04:19 AM
I performed a test on a few receivers maybe 2 years ago now - my old RX-V1400, a Denon and Onkyo model some others brought too. Oh, and a whole bunch of power amps.

We generally found that all the receivers, even the cheap ones performed well above their specs for generous amounts of time. The measured power output dipped after a sustained period of time of being fed a signal though, maybe a minute or two? I think the FTC rating spec requires 5 minutes or something? No matter, some high quality amps performed the same way, I'm not surprised those beefy Pioneers keep up well.

As for the all-channels driven thing - it's nice to do that measurement to create an arbitrary number that looks higher than the competition's. It's great if you are using your receiver as a toaster. But that test puts a demand on amps that will not occur in music or movies, so it really doesn't translate into an advantage in practice. So while amp A may do well at the all channels driven test, in practice, another amp that does worse at the all-channels driven test may match or even outperform it during movie or music playback.
Despite all the liberties some companies take with the 100 watt X 7 ratings, those really are more appropriate for multi-channel audio (assuming their honest, and the conditions are the same) as they reflect better the type of demands these amps face.

Moral of the story? Anytime you see a company claim it's ratings are more "honest" or real than another's, it should raise a flag. They all use spin to their advantage.

Audioholics has an excellent article on the "All-Channels Driven Fallacy".
http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/the-all-channels-driven-acd-amplifier-test

Excellent thread kex, I believe it was you or wooch who reviewed this receiver a year, year
and half ago and helped make my pick over the similar HK, Yamaha and Denon. All were
out of my budget (over $550). Seeing the pioneer under $450, and that review of performance
made it a no brainer.

Rock789
03-28-2007, 04:22 AM
Also the amplifier is a mosfet amp, which explains why it's so smooth, the more volume is used.

I am not aware of any amps using jfet / bjt transistors these days, doesn't mean there arn't any...

did this guy imply mosfet amps are rare?

perhaps I just haven't paid attention to amp design in the main stream :confused:

edit:
I'll have to read this after work:
http://www.lovoltech.com/App_Notes/AN108.pdf

kexodusc
03-28-2007, 06:32 AM
LOL, mosfets certainly aren't rare....man, I remember back when that was the big selling feature....I think the cheap Clarion deck in my car has Mosfets.

Hey Rock, how do ya like your Anthem gear?

Rock789
03-28-2007, 07:15 AM
I am very happy with the audio, although the pre.pro had some issues with s-vid...
the audio store I purchased the unit from has not been very helpful, and I have sent several e-mails to anthem tech support, but no replys...

... when there are bright flashes such as explosions, the screen flashes blue for a split second...

for audio I would suggest, but for video... well my denon receiver never had a problem with s-vid signals... (just did not have hdmi)

other bad things for the anthem prepro... not as user friendly as my denon, no composite vid conversion to others...

the audio is worlds better than my denon receiver...
I should have saved some money and done more video research, I based this purchase totally on audio auditions, and only specs for the vid...

E-Stat
03-28-2007, 07:22 AM
I am not aware of any amps using jfet / bjt transistors these days, doesn't mean there arn't any...
Remember the Yamaha B-1 from the 70s? It was a JFET design. Apparently, there are once again some devices available. Nelson Pass has created a low powered amp under the First Watt brand name.

First Watt F3 (http://www.firstwatt.com/products/f3.htm)

rw

Rock789
03-28-2007, 07:31 AM
Do you guys know of any IGBT amps?
I read something about a year ago stating newer IGBT's are suitable for audio amplifiers... not sure how this design would work, but I'de like to check them out ;o)

kexodusc
03-28-2007, 08:02 AM
I am very happy with the audio, although the pre.pro had some issues with s-vid...
the audio store I purchased the unit from has not been very helpful, and I have sent several e-mails to anthem tech support, but no replys...

... when there are bright flashes such as explosions, the screen flashes blue for a split second...

for audio I would suggest, but for video... well my denon receiver never had a problem with s-vid signals... (just did not have hdmi)

other bad things for the anthem prepro... not as user friendly as my denon, no composite vid conversion to others...

the audio is worlds better than my denon receiver...
I should have saved some money and done more video research, I based this purchase totally on audio auditions, and only specs for the vid...

That's unfortunate. I asked because a friend of mine is also having problems with his pre/pro, but they are audio related - decoder messing up or channels cutting in and out. I've been under the impression they make decent gear though...everyone makes a lemon sooner later...

Rock789
03-28-2007, 02:04 PM
has your friend had any luck with tech support? or going with the shop?

on another note, I am in the process of building my new subs (using 2, 1996 rockfordfosgate punch power series 12" speakers with the dayton 1000 watt rackmount amp)

they are just in an old box now, but I am going to build separate enclosures for them...

I also have been thinking about the feedback destroyer, but haven't done enough research on it yet to make an educated decision...

kexodusc
03-28-2007, 03:37 PM
He has no warranty, and had to take it into an Anthem dealer, apparently parts are hard to come by. Guess it was fixed for awhile and has been acting up again. I haven't checked up in a few weeks, but I'll try and do that when I get back home.
His dealer seems to be a bit more willing than yours by the sounds of it though.
I don't know about tech support.

musicman1999
03-28-2007, 05:21 PM
Do not like the sound of these Anthem problems.I have recently added an AVM-30 to my system and its audio performance is outstanding.I do not use it for video however,maybe i should try it out.

bill

kexodusc
03-29-2007, 05:01 AM
Do not like the sound of these Anthem problems.I have recently added an AVM-30 to my system and its audio performance is outstanding.I do not use it for video however,maybe i should try it out.

bill

I wouldn't get too worried...anytime we read a comlaint or two online there's the natural knee-jerk reaction. Anthem's been around a long time and there's not much in the way of negative reviews, at least not in product quality.
Even 0.5% defect rate produces a few lemons when you sell thousands.

Rock789
03-29-2007, 06:03 AM
on my video note...

it may just be some sort of communication problem with the hk dvdplayer I was using...

I watched a couple movies with an old dvd player this week, and the blue screen flash doesn't seem to occur... (knock on wood)

I still get blue screen flashes on cable when the signal isn't very good...

I guess I'll have to test more movies on the old dvd player...