timbre?? [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : timbre??



chazman
03-05-2007, 12:29 AM
I have Definitive Technology BP 20's with a center channel speaker that when it was bought they said it was "in timbre" with the others. (also Def. Tech.)
I need to replace my rear channel speakers. how do I know if they are in timbre with the rest? and how important is this? Do I have to buy Def. Tech.'s so they will match?


Chazman

superdougiefreshness
03-05-2007, 01:55 AM
I have Definitive Technology BP 20's with a center channel speaker that when it was bought they said it was "in timbre" with the others. (also Def. Tech.)
I need to replace my rear channel speakers. how do I know if they are in timbre with the rest? and how important is this? Do I have to buy Def. Tech.'s so they will match?


Chazman

Hey Chazman,
I may be wrong, but the timbre I believe is the matching of "technically" matching of drivers in a system and maybe even the matching of the crossovers. Of course not everyone can find the subtle differance in driver matching, and others can hear huge changes between speakers that are not measured and matched. I would think that your listening to a speaker is the best way to determine what should be in your system. You can always adjust the system with placement of the cabinets in your room and listening position to determine what is best for you. Also minor changes in stands or mounting gear can make huge changes in the sound, IMO.
Later
Doug :ciappa:

Feanor
03-05-2007, 03:45 AM
I have Definitive Technology BP 20's with a center channel speaker that when it was bought they said it was "in timbre" with the others. (also Def. Tech.)
I need to replace my rear channel speakers. how do I know if they are in timbre with the rest? and how important is this? Do I have to buy Def. Tech.'s so they will match?

Chazman

Traditionally "timbre" refers to the distinctive sound of an instrument. That is, playing single, given note, an instrument will create a series of harmonic overtones that identify it and that paticular type of instrument and as a specific instrument of its type too.

"Timbre" is not used in exactly the same way for speakers, which supposedly play only the pure note. Rather, it's about mainly the frequency response of the speaker model and its ability to accurately reproduce the sound of instruments. So "timbre-matched" speakers are basically those with match frequency reponses and matched characteristics more generally.

kexodusc
03-05-2007, 04:47 AM
Just to add to Feanor's post -
Timbre matching your rear speakers is done best by purchasing the exact same speakers you have for front mains. If that's not feasible, then purchasing speakers that use the same drivers and design characteristics is preferable. You see this often where people have large, multi-woofer towers for front LR speakers, and then "mini" bookshelf versions using the same woofer/tweeter as surrounds.

But timbre matching isn't only accomplished by using the same drivers. In fact, the same drivers can sound drastically different for a number of reasons including crossover, baffle, driver separation. There's lots of variables in speakers. You can see why we say the best timbre match for any model is another pair of that same model.

But even that isn't good enough, really. If you were to measure in room frequency response of 5 identical speakers in a 5.1 home theater system, the apparent timbre would differ considerably just as a result of the position each speaker has in the room and their immediate surroundings. We try to minimize this with room treatment, proper placement, and EQing if necessary. It's trying to control all these variables that leads us back to recommending identical-or-as-close-as-you-can-get speakers for surround duty.

For rear speakers, timbre is usually the least noticeable when it's "off". Much more important to get the front left, right, and center channels matched first. From there, many people have to balance cost of rear speakers with the performance/benefit. That's a personal and subjective decision, but for these reasons people are often better off finding an "acceptable" solution rather than just perfectly matching their rear speakers to the rest of the system. Up to you how far you want to take this. I've been in home theaters where the speakers sounded reasonably close enough that you wouldn't notice anyway. Conversely, for 5.1 multichannel music (SACD or DVD-Audio), I've found it immediately noticeable. YMMV.

Hope this helps.

westcott
03-05-2007, 05:33 AM
The others have pretty much covered it but what is really important is that, as the volume is increased, all the speakers in the system responded in a balanced manner. Otherwise, you may have a center channel or rear surround that play at a non linear volume level as the overall volume changes on the preamp/receiver.

Resident Loser
03-05-2007, 06:02 AM
I have Definitive Technology BP 20's with a center channel speaker that when it was bought they said it was "in timbre" with the others. (also Def. Tech.)
I need to replace my rear channel speakers. how do I know if they are in timbre with the rest? and how important is this? Do I have to buy Def. Tech.'s so they will match?


Chazman

...if not all manufacturers have a specific voicing to their products, particularly loudspeakers...sometimes referred to as "sonic signature"...It's usually best to have all of your loudspeakers supplied by the same company, particularly for the center channel...From my POV, and in a strictly music-oriented system, you may be able to get away with being a wayward consumer for the rears since they should, IMO, never be as loud as he fronts, more noticeable if off than when on...

However, when it comes to laser-totin' mechanical lizards and the like, or even the idiocy of music in the round (where things can pop up from any old place) you may want, as has been suggested, fronts and rears that are a matched set, same model front and back...

jimHJJ(...just another opinion...)

Dusty Chalk
03-05-2007, 11:10 AM
Timbre-matching is a fancy way of saying, "the speakers sound the same". You know you have done this when they sound the same.

Brainstorm
03-05-2007, 11:22 AM
You can have matched loudspeakers spaced evenly over the horizontal plane and still have minor errors with the sound. Itís a equalization affair and it takes hours to achieve equal balanced sound.

So break out the RTA and SPL db meter and have fun equalizing it.

topspeed
03-05-2007, 12:37 PM
If you don't play a lot of hi-rez (SACD/ DVD-A), I don't think specific timbre matching the rears is all that important. Let's be honest, there isn't a whole lot of information back there in movies anyway. :rolleyes: I wouldn't use a pair of horn loaded Klipsch's with your BP's, but you could probably get away with something that sounds similar, if not exactly the same.

Now, if you do employ hi-rez, you should seriously consider getting the correct timbre matched speakers for your mains. I don't know what they would be in the BP line, whether Studio or Cinema series, but I'm sure your dealer will be able to recommend the best one. Also, you're better off with monopole (direct radiating) speaks for hi-rez.

Hope this helps.

westcott
03-05-2007, 12:43 PM
If you do choose to go with speaker mfg that is not the same, at least make sure that they at least have the same sensitivity rating, power min and maxs, and if you can find out, the same impedance characterisitcs (fixed and low point, usually expressed at a certain frequency).

Brainstorm
03-05-2007, 01:40 PM
Thereís a good dts demonstration disc that uses many good examples of dialogue moving from the fronts to the surrounds or center back surround. So voicing is critical and granted my surrounds do just that.

Mission to Mars as some good dialogue panning where the actors voice travels from centre to right front to right sidewall arrays to centre back arrays to left sidewall arrays then back onto the centre channel very effective

chazman
03-05-2007, 04:40 PM
thanks for all the reply's. I love learning.
I found a set of Definitive Tech.'s, BP 1's for a great price in an auction. They list the literature from the maunufacture and it states that they are timbre matched with any Def. Tech. speakers. I don't see how that's possable seeing how their speakers have changed so much in the last 10 years but they are BP's. My mains are BP's and my center was matched when I bought it. It looks like I can get them for around a 100.00 with the brackets. Unless someone knows a cheaper route I may as well go with these.
Still looking for a Adcom GDD 1 and a good deal on a sub.
Thanks for all the input!!!

Chazman