affordable mono blocks??

[icarus]

Well im going on to do a system overall and since I need to do it on a bit of a budget, i need an amp for about $1000. The amp will be hopefully powering a pair of Sonus Faber Concertino Domus. I would preferably use mono blocks than just a two channel amp. Are there any affordable decent monoblocks out there?

thanks for all you help guys(and girl, yes I didn't forget you FA)

[Feanor]

Well im going on to do a system overall and since I need to do it on a bit of a budget, i need an amp for about $1000. The amp will be hopefully powering a pair of Sonus Faber Concertino Domus. I would preferably use mono blocks than just a two channel amp. Are there any affordable decent monoblocks out there?

thanks for all you help guys(and girl, yes I didn't forget you FA)

Here you go! I recommend these whole-heartedly -- I'm using a pair right now and love 'em. Some say they have a tube-like sound, I simply say they sound great. 75 watts/ch into 8 ohms or 120 wt/ch into 4 ohms.


By the way, the seller in the Audiogon ad, below, is the manufacturer. I'm certain the price is for a pair of SM-70 Pros althoug the ad is a bit vague on the point. These units are supposedly used, but ... hummm?!? Ask about a waranty.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1174844857

[icarus]

thanks alot fean, but im a bit more interested in a new amp, I might be even up to doubling my budget to 2 grand for a pair. But the cheaper the better.

[PeruvianSkies]

I highly doubt that you will be able to find any decent monoblocks in that price range. You would be better off spending that money on a good 2-channel amp, rather than a so-so set of monoblocks. However, if you are able to spend some serious cash than monoblocks are the way to go, but that get's well above the $3,000 mark. I was thinking about getting the Parasound Halo monoblocks, which are $3,000/each...ouch!!! If you go to AudioAdvisor they have some Vincent Audio stuff in your price range, but I have never heard their stuff, so that's a question maybe someone else can answer.

[basite]

yeah, vincent has some monoblocks in that pricerange

http://www.vincent-tac.de/en/produkt/end.php

I have never heard them, but some people say that they play quite 2 dimensional, but they go really loud. but preamps do more about the sound so I wouldn't bother too much about that...

it has to be said though... Vincent is a chinese brand, Germans are designing it, but it is chinese, and chinese made, and i'm not sure that this is in a high tech factory...
and they rip of from classe and mark levinson, but they make it cheaper, so quality will be lost...

but why don't you go for a bridgable stereo power amp? like a rotel, or a primare or so? then you could buy one stereo amp now, and save on for a second one, and then bridge them...

the primare stuff is expensive though...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Feanor]

thanks alot fean, but im a bit more interested in a new amp, I might be even up to doubling my budget to 2 grand for a pair. But the cheaper the better.

Believe me, you wouldn't be disappointed with the Monarchy's. Also, I'm suggesting to you that in the Audiogon ad Monarchy Audio is actually selling you new amps, (likely overstocks or dealer returns), and will most likely provide you with a warranty if you ask for one.

I would at least email or 'phone Monarchy and ask them for more details.

Vincent amps?!? They are an unknown commodity compared to Monarchy. Do a search in Audio Asylum's Amp/Preamp Asylum for "SM-70" or "Monarchy": they enjoy a high reputation.

[Dusty Chalk]

http://sphl.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/buy_cl.pl?ampstran&1177163812

[Feanor]

http://sphl.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/buy_cl.pl?ampstran&1177163812

But the man says he doesn't want used -- pity.

[JohnMichael]

I have not heard these but Stereophile gave them a good review.

http://www.musicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=ACIAD%2D100

[Dusty Chalk]

But the man says he doesn't want used -- pity.Oh. I missed that.

[icarus]

So basically its a longshot dream to get affordable monblocks that have some decent quality. So i would probably be better off putting that money towards a good two channel amp eh...

[Dusty Chalk]

Or you can look used.

The Musical Fidelity A3^CR and A3.2 are essentially dual-monoblock design internally. They often run under US$1K.

[PeruvianSkies]

Here's a thought...what about getting two really good 2-channel amps (like the Parasound HaloA23), which is about $850MSRP and I know you can probably get it from less than $700, so get two of them and run them bridged.

[icarus]

Thats a great idea skies, never thought of using 2 channel amps as a monoblock...i'll definately have to look into that one...

[PeruvianSkies]

A 2-channel amp in bridge mode is not exactly still equal to a true monoblock, but is a cost effective alternative to getting more power to the speakers. You will also want to check your OHm rating on your speakers before getting ahead of yourself. The Parasound HaloA23 that I mentioned can do 200w/channel in stereo @ 4 ohms, but can do 400w/channel in bridged mode @ 8ohms. Just something to consider. The Parasound Halo JC1 monoblock destroys those numbers those.

[Feanor]

A 2-channel amp in bridge mode is not exactly still equal to a true monoblock, but is a cost effective alternative to getting more power to the speakers. You will also want to check your OHm rating on your speakers before getting ahead of yourself. The Parasound HaloA23 that I mentioned can do 200w/channel in stereo @ 4 ohms, but can do 400w/channel in bridged mode @ 8ohms. Just something to consider. The Parasound Halo JC1 monoblock destroys those numbers those.

A person thinking of using a 2-ch amp in bridged mode should consider that though the amp might be rated for 4 ohms in 2-ch, it might good for only 8 ohms in bridged mode. Basically that's because each channel is see only half the impedance of the speaker, e.g. a 4 ohm speaker looks like 2 ohms to the bridged amp.

[Dusty Chalk]

A 2-channel amp in bridge mode is not exactly still equal to a true monoblock...Why not?

[GMichael]

I don't know as much as you guys on these things, but I have heard that you can get better results with 2-2 chanel amps by, by-amping instead of bridging.

[PeruvianSkies]

Why not?


The obvious reason is why would anyone buy a monoblock amp that costs much more than buying 2 stereo amps and running them in bridge mode. There must be a difference and there is.

If you look at the ratings on monoblocks vs. a stereo amp they are quite different even in running bridge mode, plus a monoblock is designed to carry a heavy load with one channel and will outperform and outhaul a stereo amp in bridge mode.

Using my example the Parasound Halo JC1 can do 800 watts/channel @ 4 ohms

The HaloA23 in bridge mode can only do 400 watts/channel @ 8 ohms.

My rationalization for recommending using 2 of the HaloA23's was for cost effeciency because you can get two of them and run them in bridge mode, which will certainly act more like a monoblock and lighten the load and also cost less than buying two monoblocks.

Cost breakdown: 2 Parasound JC1's for example would cost: Approx. $6,000
2 Halo A23's would cost: Approx. $1400.

That's quite a big difference! Even if you were to go with the HaloA21, which would be
2 Halo A21's would cost approx. $3400.

[Dusty Chalk]

But they're monoblock in spirit. For example, one of the reasons I like monoblocks is that there's (much) less crosstalk between the channels at the amplifier -- since they're situated separately. Similarly, a pair of stereo amps in bridge mode driving one speaker each will have similar crosstalk specs. Also -- getting pedantic now -- monoblock to me means "one amp driving one speaker", and it's kind of doing that, so I guess I'm just being nitpicky, but nothing you said has convinced me that using "monoblock" is incorrect to describe a stereo amp in bridge mode driving one speaker.

[PeruvianSkies]

You simply don't really read what other people say do you? When did I say that one was the correct and one was incorrect? Here's an idea...go through and read the thread carefully and you will see that I was mentioning the bridge mode as an alternative to cut cost and nearly get the same thing.

[Carl Reid]

so I guess I'm just being nitpicky, but nothing you said has convinced me that using "monoblock" is incorrect to describe a stereo amp in bridge mode driving one speaker.


I don't think Peruvian was trying to convince you that your terminology is wrong, but rather that an actual Monoblock will outperform a bridged 2 channel amp.



As for cheap Monoblocks: What ever Happened to Norh? And the ultracheap Norh Le-Amp 2 Mono Blocks ($600 per pair including shipping)?

http://www.norh.com/products/leamp2/index.html

I remember 4 years ago, there were so many recomendations on this site for Norh... Whatever ever happened to all those Norh fanatics?

[Feanor]

... Also -- getting pedantic now -- monoblock to me means "one amp driving one speaker", and it's kind of doing that, so I guess I'm just being nitpicky, but nothing you said has convinced me that using "monoblock" is incorrect to describe a stereo amp in bridge mode driving one speaker.

My Monarchy SM-70 Pros, while capable of being used as 2 channel, are optimized for use as monoblocks driven by a fully balanced signal -- not really typical of course.

[Feanor]

Well im going on to do a system overall and since I need to do it on a bit of a budget, i need an amp for about $1000. The amp will be hopefully powering a pair of Sonus Faber Concertino Domus. I would preferably use mono blocks than just a two channel amp. Are there any affordable decent monoblocks out there?

thanks for all you help guys(and girl, yes I didn't forget you FA)

A low cost monoblock option not mentioned so far is Outlaw's 2200, 200 watts, $325. Gotta be a bargain at the price, new, though Icarus' budget goes higher.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200_gallery2.html
http://www.outlawaudio.com/images/2200-rear-huge.jpg

[Dusty Chalk]

Using my example the Parasound Halo JC1 can do 800 watts/channel @ 4 ohms

The HaloA23 in bridge mode can only do 400 watts/channel @ 8 ohms. But you're comparing apples to oranges here -- are you trying to tell me that the Halo A23 is somehow equivalent to the Halo JC1? The A23 is a $850 amplifier, the JC1 is a $6000 amplifier. It's not better because it's a monoblock, it's better because it's a better amplifier.

[Dusty Chalk]

You simply don't really read what other people say do you?No need to get snippy. I actually thought that your idea was a good one, it just seemed like that's what you were trying to convey, I'm glad you cleared that up.

[PeruvianSkies]

I'm not saying anymore....if you go back and read all the things that I have wrote I think I have been as clear as I can.

Bottom line is that going with two amps in bridge mode could be an alternative to going with two monoblocks and spending quite a bit more. No, it won't be the same, but it also won't break the bank.

[GMichael]

I have heard that you can get better results with 2-2 chanel amps by, by-amping instead of bridging.

Can anyone confirm if this is a truth or not?

[basite]

depends wether you need the power or not...
bi-amping will be better when you don't need more power,
bridging will have more effect when you do need more power, like here, you have a rotel rb1070, which delivers 130 watts/ch and 360 watts when bridged, if you have like 400 watt speakers, then bridging will have effect here...

but I hear sometimes bi-amping can be very difficult...


Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[E-Stat]

Can anyone confirm if this is a truth or not?
There is no hard rule, but I can think of two advantages to bi-amping as opposed to bridging.

1. Bridging halves the impedance "seen" by each amp. With low impedance speakers, that may make the amps unhappy.

2. For the most part, it is the bass that requires the most power. In a bi-amped situation, clipping the bottom does not affect the top.

rw

[Haoleb]

There is currently an ad on Audiogon for a pair of Odyssey Khartago mono's, For under 800 bucks. Quite a steal really. Check them out and I think you will agree. If I hadnt bought a pair new from Klaus a few months ago I would have already bought these.

[GMichael]

There is no hard rule, but I can think of two advantages to bi-amping as opposed to bridging.

1. Bridging halves the impedance "seen" by each amp. With low impedance speakers, that may make the amps unhappy.

2. For the most part, it is the bass that requires the most power. In a bi-amped situation, clipping the bottom does not affect the top.

rw

Thanks to you and basite.
Basicly, it depends.

[mjohnsonishere]

Greetings all...I was wondering if anyone had any feedback as to the build quality and sonic performance of the valve amplifiers that Parts Express is now carrying. There are two of them and here are the links to their specifications.

NUERA 3403PP-A STEREO TUBE INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/306-100s.pdf

NUERA 3403SE-A STEREO CLASS A TUBE INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/306-102s.pdf

I would be running these (two) in tandem biamplifying the mids and tweets on my JBL L7's, with a single Carver TFM-35 driving just the 12" woofers in each L7 cabinet (side firing) and a
Dayton TITSK-15K 15" Titanic MKIII subwoofer Kit with Dayton HPSA1000-R subwoofer amp. to punch the really low end. I am considering running the entire set up through an Ashly or Behringer Active Crossover setup.

I am seeking input as to the subwoofer size....would a 12" have more musicality? I listen to mostly alternative indie punk music that has a very tight, snappy, punchy bass line...but is very melodic in the mid to upper end. Any ideas or suggestions from the collective minds here would be greatly appreciated....none of this is set in stone, so alternative or unconventional configurations/equipment substitutions are also welcome. I Like to Listen to it LOUD, so as to be able to immerse myself in the sound.....ahhhhhhh...nothing in the world like it!

Thank you my friends.....

MJ

[Feanor]

Greetings all...I was wondering if anyone had any feedback as to the build quality and sonic performance of the valve amplifiers that Parts Express is now carrying. There are two of them and here are the links to their specifications.

NUERA 3403PP-A STEREO TUBE INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/306-100s.pdf

NUERA 3403SE-A STEREO CLASS A TUBE INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/306-102s.pdf

I would be running these (two) in tandem biamplifying the mids and tweets on my JBL L7's, with a single Carver TFM-35 driving just the 12" woofers in each L7 cabinet (side firing) and a
Dayton TITSK-15K 15" Titanic MKIII subwoofer Kit with Dayton HPSA1000-R subwoofer amp. to punch the really low end. I am considering running the entire set up through an Ashly or Behringer Active Crossover setup.
...

Thank you my friends.....

MJ

Welcome to AR.

Since you like to listen quite loud, do you think you will have enough power with these Nuera models? I gather you would use the 7 watt/ch 3403SE-A for the tweeters and the 35 watt/ch NUERA 3403PP-A for the midranges. The L7's are pretty efficient at 91dB per watt at 1 meter, but if your listening room is large, power might be marginal at best.

[topspeed]

What did Icarus get? Does anybody know?

If you haven't bought anything yet, you might consider the PS Audio Trio, which received a glowing review in the March TAS.

http://psaudio.com/products/trio_a100.asp

Apparently, Albert Von Schweikert borrowed a Trio for his CES demo room when his reference Jadis was delayed at customs. Driving a pair of VR5se ($25k) speakers, the boys at VSA were blown away! The sound was so astonishing, they had to put a sign above the miniscule Trio just so people would believe it was actually driving the speakers! Cool stuff.

BTW, Kexodusc wasn't crazy about the Outlaw mono's and found them pretty gritty IIRC.

[PeruvianSkies]

What did Icarus get? Does anybody know?

If you haven't bought anything yet, you might consider the PS Audio Trio, which received a glowing review in the March TAS.

http://psaudio.com/products/trio_a100.asp

Apparently, Albert Von Schweikert borrowed a Trio for his CES demo room when his reference Jadis was delayed at customs. Driving a pair of VR5se ($25k) speakers, the boys at VSA were blown away! The sound was so astonishing, they had to put a sign above the miniscule Trio just so people would believe it was actually driving the speakers! Cool stuff.

BTW, Kexodusc wasn't crazy about the Outlaw mono's and found them pretty gritty IIRC.


I've always loved the PS AUDIO stuff and you usually don't see them getting much recognition outside of their 'power' stuff, but their amps are very good and insanely priced!!!!

[topspeed]

Ever since I bought a PS Audio 4.6 preamp back in the '80's, I've been a huge fan of Paul McGowan's stuff. I'm still kicking myself for selling that thing! A bit of visionary and tweaker, he saw the benefit of huge outboard power supplies waaaay before anyone else. I think that was what led to his foray into power conditioners. Thankfully, he still designs killer amps, pre's, and just introduced a new DAC.

I haven't had much occasion to refer PSA lately as, quite frankly, I wasn't as happy with the GCA series of amps as I was with the HCA's. I like tubes, ARC in particular, and whereas the HCA's had a warm, musical sound (quite ARC-like but without fussy tubes), the succeeding GCA's were a bit sterile for my taste. Paul strove for absolute transparency, which is what he got. However, so many customers had grown to love the voicing of the HCA's, he decided to add a bit of warmth back to the design of the Trio.

I learned my lesson, tho. The HCA will never be sold. :)

[nightflier]

I learned my lesson, tho. The HCA will never be sold. :)

That said, the HCA cannot be bridged. I would go with the other poster who suggested Odyssey Audio's Kartago amps. Considering how much of a perfectionist Klaus is, these amps can't possible be that bad.

I own a pair of Odyssey Nightingale speakers and while these are not amps, I can vouch for Odyssey's top-notch support, quality, solid-build, and sound. It is definitely worth checking out.

If buying used is still an option on the table, you might want to consider a PS Audio Monoblock amps. Most of these models are now old & discontinued, but that means that they will be available for a whole lot less than retail. I own a pair of Delta 250/400 monoblocks and I have to say that there is little in these bad boys to complain about. And they can be had online for a pittance.

Anyhow, that just MHO....

[stereorepairlongisland]

You could get the Rotel 1050 or 1070 and bridge them or use it till you have the money to get a nice set of Monos. No reason you can't get a second hand set of monos that are decent. As to bridging the 1070, I thought of this at first but the power output bridged at 4 ohms is 330 W rated. Frankly, I don't have small speakers and it would blow the roof off the house and I have 2 monos sitting in the closet that are rated about 300 into 4 ohm. In addition, you don't want to spend $1400 on a pair of bridged monos IMHO. I'd try to go 2nd hand with that budget. Just a thought.