Beating a Dead Horse. Bookshelves??

[twwesn]

I've read most of the posts on the various bookshelves that are out there. I'm looking for the best value in a bookshelf speaker that can be mounted on the wall for the fronts. I've considered the B&W 303's and 601's, the Paradigm Titans and Atoms, I'm really interested in the Wharfedale Evo8 and Evo10 but am having trouble finding pricing, plus have seen recommendations for Axioms, AV123, HTD, etc. I previously had a post on this board asking about sub/sat systems and am really second guessing that because I think this would be a better sounding system with the bookshelves. I also want the bi/dipolar speakers for the rears and not many of those systems have those (other than the Paradigm Cinemas, which I am still considering).
So.
1. Is the bi/dipole speakers really that much better for surround (that would eliminate my search for a sub/sat system?
2. Would bookshelves be the way to go and which ones should I go with (considering I'd like to stay in that <$400 range)?

Thanks

[RGA]

Well first you'll need a speaker that is front ported or sealed if you're mounting it on a wall.

From B&W the 303 would not be best for really close to a wall. Most speakers will give a bass boomy sound that won't be very good and thus you may as well shop at Wal-Mart.

Don't worry because companies like B&W have this in mind and it's the Leisure monitor series. http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.ranges/label/Range%20Monitors

[Geoffcin]

I've read most of the posts on the various bookshelves that are out there. I'm looking for the best value in a bookshelf speaker that can be mounted on the wall for the fronts. I've considered the B&W 303's and 601's, the Paradigm Titans and Atoms, I'm really interested in the Wharfedale Evo8 and Evo10 but am having trouble finding pricing, plus have seen recommendations for Axioms, AV123, HTD, etc. I previously had a post on this board asking about sub/sat systems and am really second guessing that because I think this would be a better sounding system with the bookshelves. I also want the bi/dipolar speakers for the rears and not many of those systems have those (other than the Paradigm Cinemas, which I am still considering).
So.
1. Is the bi/dipole speakers really that much better for surround (that would eliminate my search for a sub/sat system?
2. Would bookshelves be the way to go and which ones should I go with (considering I'd like to stay in that <$400 range)?

Thanks

If your looking for a "best value" option on a speaker that can be mounted on the front wall, as opposed to a bookshelf/standmount, then you shoud look into the Cambridge Soundworks MC300. These are the largest wall mountable speakers in the Newton line. My HT setup uses all CSW Newton series speakers and I am very happy with them. They have just released a couple more modestly priced multipole surround speakers too, so you have a choice besides the S300 (what I am using) for your surround speakers.

[twwesn]

First off, I own a pair of 12 year old Infinity SM82 bookshelves now. I recently auditioned a pair of Paradigm MiniMonitors and a pair of B&W 601's against mine/each other. I don't know the proper terms for the various listening aspects so bear with me. My Infinity speakers seemed more detailed, where the other 2 had what I would describe as a duller sound to them. I'm sure what others would say is that mine are "too bright with bass that was too boomy". I thought these other 2 were going to sound heads and shoulders better than what I currently have, but I just didn't get that. One area where the others did distance themselves was in the imaging department. Am I nuts?? Or am I just an unseasoned listener?? I know that these other speakers are probably 2X the speakers mine are and of the 2 I auditioned I liked the MiniMonitors the best. I am still looking to upgrade my speakers but am now looking at the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170. Everyone seems to feel like they are quite the speaker for the price. I am definitely going to buy a sub (either HSU or Velodyne) so the lack of bass isn't an issue. What are your opinions of the Ascend speakers?? Are there others I should consider keeping in mind that I am fairly happy with my current speakers?(but they are just too big).

[RGA]

No you're not nuts...just because a speaker is old means zippo. My speakers are revamped original Snell speakers from the 1970s which have a box design from the 1940s and I have yet to hear a NEW comparable standmount from conglomorates that are frankly even close to sounding as good.

The BIG problem is that when someone asks for advice on speakers we generally assume they don't own a pair and are looking at buying new...so we offer what we hear as the best of the current crop. I have 12 year old Wharfedales that were $2kCdn back then and I wouldn't trade them in for the Paradigm Studio 100 or the B&W CDM 7NT. I respect that in certain areas - like imiging and possibly soundstaging - both speakers beat my Wharfedales, but then again my speakers will kick them in dynamics, bass weight(not bass depth though) the ability to play louder, a clearer cleaner less distorted treble response. Put it this way, the new ones don't win out in all areas they simply beat em in some areas and lose out in others...and that is not worth trading.

I'm unfamiliar with your speakers but it's highly possible you have grown very accustomed the sound and differences of other speakers will be deemed as weaknesses. ---or simply are not good enough. The B&W needs a fair bit of clean power and it should not be close to a wall otherwise the speaker will sound dull...most speakers like to be at least a foot away from a wall.

[twwesn]

Therein lies my problem. Most speakers I've been researching like the Ascend Acoustics are rear ported and I want to mount these on the wall or place them on shelves beside my widescreen in order to get them out of reach of my 1 year old (plus the wife says "no more stands"). I realize that the B&W and others are front ported so should I only be considering the front ported?? I also realize I could use a more powerful and better receiver (I have the Onkyo 474, 55x5) but I'd be in big trouble if I went down that road (reference to wife again).

[92135011]

I have been in and out of this forum for a few weeks now...
Many people have put their wives into the picture...
You guys think the wife has the single biggest impact on getting new gear? If that's the case...marriage sounds like a bummer LOL

[twwesn]

If it walks like a duck- you know the rest...It's something I definitely have to contend with. Although I really do want my stuff off the ground,
1 year old fingers + woofers and tweeters = used to be good equipment

[filecat13]

Yeah, I luckily got my stereo system as I wanted it before I got married in 1972. After that, the only times I could change anything were when something broke or wore out. Even then, I'd have to endure the "are you sure you really need that stupid thing when the kids need..." or "go ahead and get your toy; I'll put off doing anything that I want for myself until you're happy" mind games from the wife.

Under those conditions, the replacements for the items that failed were cheaper and inferior to what they replaced. Remarkably, my JBL L100 Century speakers survived and
are in service in a secondary system to this day, minus original grilles, long since fingered to death by three kids, and with a few stains, scratches, and dented dust caps.

My next real upgrade came more than 28 years after my wedding, and I've been upgrading at will ever since. What changed? Well, of course, the kids are grown and gone, AND I got divorced around the 28 year mark. That might have been the biggest upgrade of all: it reduced my noise floor to zero.

[PmR]

Therein lies my problem. Most speakers I've been researching like the Ascend Acoustics are rear ported and I want to mount these on the wall or place them on shelves beside my widescreen in order to get them out of reach of my 1 year old (plus the wife says "no more stands"). I realize that the B&W and others are front ported so should I only be considering the front ported?? I also realize I could use a more powerful and better receiver (I have the Onkyo 474, 55x5) but I'd be in big trouble if I went down that road (reference to wife again).

The guys from Ascend have now developed a special wall mount ($80 for a pair) for the CBM-170. I would ask them about any sound degradation with wall mounting. They are very knowledgeable, don't try to push you into buying something you don't need and are pretty quick with their replies (always < 24 hours). There was a slight problem with my shipment due to border issues and they were quite helpful. If you don't like them, I believe you can return them within 45 days for a full refund (minus S+H which is only $8).

I have my Ascends on stands so I can't comment how they sound wall-mounted. They are absolutely brilliant sounding with great imaging, soundstaging and clear mid-range and highs. I honestly prefer them to my Paradigm studio 40/v2's for music although the Paradigm's win out in HT. The Ascends combined with a good subwoofer makes for great audio. Allegedly the owner of SVS uses an Ascend system along with two SVS subs in his own HT, FWIW.

[RGA]

PMR

I'm a little interested in these myself. Are you in Canada? If so could you tell me what they go for. Shipping is cheap but I'm more conscerned with the Bills that come in about a month from now for both Duty and Taxes. I purchased a print from the Louvre in Paris for $16.00 Canadian. By the time I paid GST taxes, Duty and shipping ot cost me more than $80.00. Needless to say I am extremely gun shy of buying outside the country.

[PmR]

PMR

I'm a little interested in these myself. Are you in Canada? If so could you tell me what they go for. Shipping is cheap but I'm more conscerned with the Bills that come in about a month from now for both Duty and Taxes. I purchased a print from the Louvre in Paris for $16.00 Canadian. By the time I paid GST taxes, Duty and shipping ot cost me more than $80.00. Needless to say I am extremely gun shy of buying outside the country.

On the American side of things, shipping was $26 US. On the Cdn side, GST was $32. Brokerage was $50.

In the end it was roughly (using exchange rate $1 Cdn = $0.74 US):

Speakers: 432 Cdn
US shipping: 35 Cdn
Brokerage: 50 Cdn
Taxes: 30 (you'd have to add PST for BC which would make it 65)

Total: $574 Cdn (roughly $600 Cdn in BC)

Now we can go to A&B and get Energy C3's for $350 Cdn on sale, but I definitely prefer the sound of the Ascends, myself in my own room as compared to the C3's in A&B's sound room.

The downside for Canadian's is that S+H is not refundable. The American shipping charge is only $8 US compared to the $85 Cdn I had to pay. I guess most Americans are also spared GST and PST on interstate online transactions which also makes it more economically advantageous.

[twwesn]

I live approx 3 hours from Winnipeg and live in the US. Since Paradigm is a Canadian Co. and with the exchange rate I was wondering what would a typical pair of say Paradigm Studio 20's sell for and what kind of hoops would a person have to jump thru to get back into the US? They retail in my local store for $800.

[PmR]

I live approx 3 hours from Winnipeg and live in the US. Since Paradigm is a Canadian Co. and with the exchange rate I was wondering what would a typical pair of say Paradigm Studio 20's sell for and what kind of hoops would a person have to jump thru to get back into the US? They retail in my local store for $800.

On the Cdn side, my local Paradigm dealer in Edmonton said he could give me them for $835 Cdn but I have a lonstanding relationship with these guys. He said the list price was $1000 Cdn which is about $740 US so probably not a huge saving off the base list price for you. If you could get the $835 Cdn deal then that is more like $625 US. Not sure what you would be charged at the border for customs.

Hope that helps.

[RGA]

twwesn

You'd get both your taxes back I'm pretty sure though. You have to fill out a form or something at the border. Phone the border and ask.

PmR

I figures this would all drive the price up. I think I'll go back to my previous plan of running the center as phantom and adding 2 average uesd rears.

The problem with the Ascend is that I'm looking for a complete package so two sets of those are $1250 plus whatever the center goes for - AND a sub.

My front Wharfedales don't really require a sub...at least not the kinds typically sold for <$700.00Cdn.

My problem is it's impossible to find a matching center...but I don't want to sell good speakers at a huge loss. Which is why I'm going to be in the center channel based off how good the center is more than just whether it will match - since none will.

And things like the Energy Take 5 - well at more than 1k I'd rather just listen to my two speakers as they're more realistic.

The C3 here sells for $624.00 yikes.