PS3 killer? Black XBox360 w/ HDMI & 120GB HD to ship soon

[nightflier]

http://www.gamersreports.com/news/4966/120gig-black-xbox360-with-hdmi-official/?www.reghardware.co.uk

But will it have a HD-DVD built-in? Or at the very least a coupon for an external one?

[Woochifer]

That would be a very intriguing release if that rumor turns out to be true. A big question would center on the cost, because obviously the HDMI output, HD-DVD drive, and 120 GB hard drive together would add quite a bit to the unit cost. And Microsoft is supposedly now making a profit for each Xbox 360 console sold.

If this gets out in the U.S. it could help HD-DVD force a draw in the format war with Blu-ray (and as I've stated in the related thread, I think that's all that Toshiba and Microsoft are looking for anyway), since right now the momentum on the HD disc side is totally with Blu-ray. IMO, it will only make an impact if the HD-DVD drive is internal.

One of the more interesting features with the PS3 is that the hard drive is user replaceable (but, opening the case will void the warranty).

[PeruvianSkies]

Does anyone know how many titles are currently available in both formats? My calculations suggest that HD-DVD has more titles and I know the the site I write for www.fulvuedrive-in.com has covered more HD-DVD.

[kexodusc]

Cool - didn't realize Australia was the new primary release candidate market for Xbox 360, but this would be nice to see.

I can't help but wonder if it's just a bad rumour at this point - If I were MS, I would be advertising this now, worldwide, in the hopes it would make people hold off on buying a PS3.

I wonder why these 2 companies didn't design external hard drives into the platforms? Cost? You could have made a holder compartment or something - would have opened the door to accessory upgrade sales and provided easier drive replacement.
Oh well.

[Groundbeef]

I wonder why these 2 companies didn't design external hard drives into the platforms? Cost? You could have made a holder compartment or something - would have opened the door to accessory upgrade sales and provided easier drive replacement.
Oh well.

The 360 HAS an external HD. It sits flush on the top/side depending upon how you have the unit. It just pops off with a push of a button. Then you can travel to a friends house, pop on your HD, and its like playing at home. All your saves are on it, and everything.

If MS offers a larger HD, it would go on the same spot.

Unlike Sony, there is no warrenty void by removing HD, as it is designed that way. Same with the rechargable battery compartment on the controller. But I digress.

[kexodusc]

The 360 HAS an external HD. It sits flush on the top/side depending upon how you have the unit. It just pops off with a push of a button. Then you can travel to a friends house, pop on your HD, and its like playing at home. All your saves are on it, and everything.

If MS offers a larger HD, it would go on the same spot.

Unlike Sony, there is no warrenty void by removing HD, as it is designed that way. Same with the rechargable battery compartment on the controller. But I digress.

I was thinking of USB 2.0, but then I looked and the both have ports, so problem solved. Wicked feature from both platforms. I doubt Xbox would bother selling another drive with that feature, who'd buy it?

FYI - I ran into that whole voided warranty thread on another forum - that's apparently a false presumption that Sony has never claimed. That's on my laptop. I just did a quick google and found a few other sites echoing that sentiment though.
http://ps3.qj.net/Clearing-up-the-PS3-s-HDD-swap-warranty-issues/pg/49/aid/72554

I dunno...PS3 fanboys say one thing, XBox fanboys say another. I could see Sony being really anal about it, but then again, if you don't tell them you swap drives, how would they know?
Even it is true and the warranty gets voided, I doubt it's an issue for 99% of users on account of external HDD's getting cheaper and bigger. 2 years from now it definitely won't be. Of the 1% of people who will swap drives, chances are they PS3 won't crap out (pretty hard to fry a machine connecting a drive), and chances are they wont' do it in the warranty period.

Any idea how many Xbox 360 or PS3 users even use the drives?
I doubt people will swap either until the warranties expire anyway, but whatever.

[Groundbeef]

Even it is true and the warranty gets voided, I doubt it's an issue for 99% of users on account of external HDD's getting cheaper and bigger. 2 years from now it definitely won't be. Of the 1% of people who will swap drives, chances are they PS3 won't crap out (pretty hard to fry a machine connecting a drive), and chances are they wont' do it in the warranty period.

Any idea how many Xbox 360 or PS3 users even use the drives?
I doubt people will swap either until the warranties expire anyway, but whatever.

I think there is some validity in having the HD external vs. internal. Honestly, most of us folks on this board are somewhat technically savvy. However, I wouldn't DREAM of tearing my PS3 apart to swap out a drive. BTW I don't actually own a PS3, but if I did, I wouldn't crack it apart.

With my 360 its no problem to switch it out if and when the larger drive comes out.

I can actually see myself using this feature, as I have now "rented" 3 movies off of MS. Frankly its been a very easy feature to utilize, and quite pleasing. But it chews up HD space up quickly so a larger HD would be great.

[kexodusc]

Switching drives is pretty straightforward from what I've seen. Couldn't be any harder than doing it in computer. I'm guessing most people won't bother, instead it allows Sony to keep increasing the drive size periodically without a major platform overhaul.

Not busting the thing open is probably for the best, I've been burned by Sony's stupid warranty policies before (non Sony MiniDisc in a Sony MiniDisc player - let's not go there, reason #47 I hate Sony) and I could totally see them using some weak excuse to avoid all liability the odd time something does go wrong.

Chances are if either platform knows enough to fill either hard drive, they could figure out how to connect an external one. Hell, if they took the drive out altogether they could lower the price. If people want a drive they can buy their own for cheap.

[Woochifer]

I think there is some validity in having the HD external vs. internal. Honestly, most of us folks on this board are somewhat technically savvy. However, I wouldn't DREAM of tearing my PS3 apart to swap out a drive. BTW I don't actually own a PS3, but if I did, I wouldn't crack it apart.

With my 360 its no problem to switch it out if and when the larger drive comes out.

I can actually see myself using this feature, as I have now "rented" 3 movies off of MS. Frankly its been a very easy feature to utilize, and quite pleasing. But it chews up HD space up quickly so a larger HD would be great.

Aside from the internal v. external, the primary difference with the PS3 is that you can use any standard 2.5" mobile computer hard drive and simply swap out the drives. A notebook drive sold as a generic component would cost a lot less per GB than the drives that are sold for the Xbox 360. Doesn't it cost ~$100 for a 20GB Xbox hard drive? In stores, $100 can get you a 120GB drive.

The drive swap procedure that I saw in a PS3 review looked very straight forward. No different than when I changed the hard drive on my laptop -- less than 5 minutes. But, since it requires cracking open the case (or actually just the access door to the drive compartment), I doubt that too many people will take advantage of that.

I would also be very curious as to how someone would do a data transfer (i.e., downloaded media files and game settings). With a notebook computer, some of the retail hard drive kits come with USB 2.0 cases where you can reuse the old hard drive and transfer the data to the new one. I have no idea how that would be done with a PS3 or an Xbox 360 for that matter.

[nightflier]

Actually, the problem is not with cloning the drives (which is quite simple with apps from Acronis and PowerQuest), but the real problem is the firmware on the system board. I've read about people doing this on many game consoles, including the PS3, and I've tinkered around with a few game consoles and PVRs myself.

Presuming that you would be adding a larger hard drive, for example, the firmware on the system board (same thing as the BIOS on a computer) has to be able to recognize the larger capacity and other features such as rotation speed, etc. Some firmware chips can be updated with a simple software install (I think the Vii can do this), but others don't provide this convenience, thus requiring chip reprogramming (as in the old days with EPROMS) or chip replacement. The are lots of hacker sites that describe how to do this on the old XBox, and you could probably pay someone to do this for you, if necessary. But all this is obviously not what the manufacturers want you to do as they want to sell you new units and new accessories / upgrades.

This is why the external drive option is, in my opinion, more convenient. No more ripping things open and hacking chips. Personally, I'm not convinced that USB (even 2.0) is fast enough for such a connection, though, and I would prefer to see a Firewire-800 port on there instead.

[Groundbeef]

Aside from the internal v. external, the primary difference with the PS3 is that you can use any standard 2.5" mobile computer hard drive and simply swap out the drives. A notebook drive sold as a generic component would cost a lot less per GB than the drives that are sold for the Xbox 360. Doesn't it cost ~$100 for a 20GB Xbox hard drive? In stores, $100 can get you a 120GB drive.

The drive swap procedure that I saw in a PS3 review looked very straight forward. No different than when I changed the hard drive on my laptop -- less than 5 minutes. But, since it requires cracking open the case (or actually just the access door to the drive compartment), I doubt that too many people will take advantage of that.

I would also be very curious as to how someone would do a data transfer (i.e., downloaded media files and game settings). With a notebook computer, some of the retail hard drive kits come with USB 2.0 cases where you can reuse the old hard drive and transfer the data to the new one. I have no idea how that would be done with a PS3 or an Xbox 360 for that matter.

You are correct. The price per MB is very high. But what are you gonna do? Frankly they have you over a barrel. Like you said, it sounds easy to swap out the HD on the PS3, but really who is gonna do it? Many of our arguments (discussions) have been hard core gamers vs casual gamers.

What parent is gonna bust out the phillips screwdriver so Johnny can have a larger HD on his brand new PS3 and void the warrenty? Probably not many. But on the flip side, some would probably buy an upgraded HD that they can swap with the push of button.

As far a external drive support, probably wouldn't be that hard to implement. After all, currently you can plug your Ipod/Mp3 player in via usb 2.0, and in reality those are just external HD units that play music.

I don't know, and right now I'm not gonna get my undies in a bunch. Right now I'm thinking about 6:00 cst when BB comes to prep my basement for the delivery and installation of my new plasma!

[Woochifer]

You are correct. The price per MB is very high. But what are you gonna do? Frankly they have you over a barrel. Like you said, it sounds easy to swap out the HD on the PS3, but really who is gonna do it? Many of our arguments (discussions) have been hard core gamers vs casual gamers.

What parent is gonna bust out the phillips screwdriver so Johnny can have a larger HD on his brand new PS3 and void the warrenty? Probably not many. But on the flip side, some would probably buy an upgraded HD that they can swap with the push of button.

As far a external drive support, probably wouldn't be that hard to implement. After all, currently you can plug your Ipod/Mp3 player in via usb 2.0, and in reality those are just external HD units that play music.

I don't know, and right now I'm not gonna get my undies in a bunch. Right now I'm thinking about 6:00 cst when BB comes to prep my basement for the delivery and installation of my new plasma!

Sounds like someone can do quite well for themselves if they design a generic external hard drive enclosure for the Xbox 360 and PS3, where the customer would just supply their own hard drive. This type of device could be even more cost effective if they make one that accommodates 3.5" desktop hard drives, since $100 can buy over 300GB of storage with those drives.

[Groundbeef]

Sounds like someone can do quite well for themselves if they design a generic external hard drive enclosure for the Xbox 360 and PS3, where the customer would just supply their own hard drive. This type of device could be even more cost effective if they make one that accommodates 3.5" desktop hard drives, since $100 can buy over 300GB of storage with those drives.

And thats how the Wooch XBOX 360 300GB XTREME HD was born kiddies....

[MikeyBC]

Personally I dont think any add-on device will ever take off, Nintendo tried this with the N-64 and didnt the PS-2 have a huge expansion slot that I never saw much on the shelf to fill it with? and I cant recall any other system being successful with an external HD.:confused: anyway that's my .02 worth.

[nightflier]

Personally I dont think any add-on device will ever take off...

Even if it's one of these with an HD-DVD-Writer, instead of a CD-RW?

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?productID=12690

[MikeyBC]

They might sell a few at first, but once Blueray/HD-dvd writers become more popular in computers they'll loose steam in the gaming console platform pretty quick. I think the majority of people buy X-Boxes and Playstations 2 or 3 solely for gaming purposes and most games work with the stock system. I suppose people who dont own a computer may take advantage of add-ons but scrolling through menus to accomplish a simple task is a real pain. I'll stick with my computer for everything except playing Grand Tourismo. (by the way...I played the demo of Grand tourismo 5...amazing!)