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PeruvianSkies
02-06-2007, 11:15 PM
With the current release of HANNIBAL RISING I thought it would be interesting to start a thread on the films, their history, our thoughts & feelings, and also it's history on various formats....

Personally I am a huge fan of the series, MANHUNTER is an underrated film that finally got some new attention with the release of Ridley Scott's HANNIBAL, which also seemed to get mixed results. I was not a fan of HANNIBAL upon first viewing, but after re-watching the film I saw it in a different light. It's far more gothic in nature and while I am not a fan of not having Jodie Foster in the lead role. SILENCE OF THE LAMBS is a true classic and remains the strongest in the series. RED DRAGON was a bit of a mess, mainly due to the Brett Ratner poor directing of the subject matter. This new film should be interesting as it fills in certain gaps in the story.

Format History:

MANHUNTER (1986)
There are varies VHS copies of the film, then there was the initial DVD issue of the film as both a THX single disc version and a THX 2-disc edition from Anchor Bay. The 2-disc edition was released as a "limited issue", which contained both a theatrical cut and the 'directors cut' on the second disc. However, the 'directors cut' does not have the DD 5.1 soundtrack as on the theatrical cut. Then Anchor Bay issued the film yet again as a new Divimax title containing a 'restored directors cut' of the film approved this time by Michael Mann and containing again some new scenes and footage, plus the soundtrack in DD 5.1 and a much better picture, but with still some flaws and the footage does not always match up. One should note that MANHUNTER was issued with 70mm blow-up prints with a 4.1 mix, so this is the best version of the DVD to date, despite MGM releasing another DVD issue once they gained rights to the film, but only in full-frame.

SILENCE OF THE LAMBS (1991)
Of course the film has a few VHS issues and also issued in the 12" Laserdisc format with a THX approved Criterion Edition in that format as well, which was quickly added to the DVD format and also went out-of-print on the Criterion DVD, which is still highly sought after. Though it does not have a 5.1 soundtrack the sound is still pretty good and the color looks really good for being an older DVD issue, mainly recycled from the Laserdisc. At this same time the film was also available in a really poor DVD edition from Image Entertainment. Both of those versions became unavailable once the MGM edition of the film was released with DD 5.1 upon the release of HANNIBAL in theaters. That version was an upgrade in both picture and sound, but still had problems. Recently MGM issued another DVD of the film called a 2-disc collectors edition, which has a sharper picture, and the same DD 5.1 mix from before. There seems to be more extras around as well. At times the sound on the original laserdisc still outperforms the more recent DD 5.1 mixes of the film. That laserdisc contains the Dolby SR 4.0 matrixed surround in some of the best PCM CD on the format. The 2.0 on the Criterion THX disc is decent, but missing some of the thicker bass and even the more recent DD 5.1 mixes on DVD are still lackluster at times. There is a DTS import DVD of the film, which is probably the best in sound, but does not have near the picture quality as the MGM edition or the color fidelity of the Criterion DVD.

HANNIBAL (2001)
Does not have near the history as the other films, in fact the MGM edition of the film on DVD is still the only version, unless you get the film packaged together with the other films. This 2-disc edition is still one of the best DVD's on the market and the DTS soundtrack is superb, plus one of the only times you get DTS on an MGM title. There are less than 10 MGM titles inside the US with DTS soundtracks and this was the first MGM title to get such treatment and it paid off. Too bad MGM did not stick with that trend!

RED DRAGON (2002)
Available on DVD from Universal and also on HD-DVD and there is also a Directors Edition of the DVD that was released simulateneous to the standard DVD edition. There are not too many differences between the two aside from the supplements. No edition inside the US contains a DTS soundtrack and the HD-DVD contains a Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 mix. Outside the US you can get the film with a DTS 5.1 mix that is far superior.

So how about HANNIBAL RISING?

I think the film will serve fairly well, but will not be nearly as great as anticipated. It will fill the gaps in the story and will hopefully complete the entire series. Here are my grades for the films thus far:

MANHUNTER A-
SILENCE OF THE LAMBS A+
HANNIBAL B+
RED DRAGON B-

PeruvianSkies
02-08-2007, 09:03 AM
Tomorrow is opening day....anyone going?

PeruvianSkies
02-09-2007, 11:53 PM
A good friend of mine went to see the film and gave it a 4/10. He was not very impressed with the storyline and thought that they played up too much of the gore and such. He said it was like what DEATH WISH would have been like if the main character had been a bloodthirsty cannibal instead. Still, I will be curious to see the film and get the gaps in the story, even if they are semi-inconsistent.

PeruvianSkies
06-04-2007, 08:07 AM
I finally watched this film on DVD no less. I was entertained by the film, the pace really picks up towards the end. Incredibly formulaic once you see where it's headed. Predictable beyond belief as well. I suppose to it's credit we establish many of the things that are later revealed about Hannibal Lecter, which isn't exactly 'needed' to make the later films work, but this does provide a bit of a backdrop for those films. It wasn't completely believable for me as well, I didn't really like the main character, it was a stetch for me to really 'buy' into all the culture and finesse that he possessed rather quickly.

Anyone else have mixed feelings on HANNIBAL RISING?

The DVD was also quite average as well. The Dolby 5.1 mix was average at best. Nothing stellar in the sound mix and the score was not that memorable, unlike HANNIBAL or SILENCE OF THE LAMBS. I was hoping for something a bit more engaging here as well. The 2.35 X 1 scope frame looks fairly good, but the blacks are a bit of a problem at times, I wonder how this would look in HD. There are detail issues that I was suprised to see as well.

Worf101
06-04-2007, 09:45 AM
And I was thoroughly underwhelmed as I have been by almost every offering from the Weinstein Company. Those boys have really lost their touch.

Da Worfster

kexodusc
06-04-2007, 09:57 AM
Hannibal, Red Dragon and now Hannibal Rising have been incredibly disappointing to me. I liked Silence of the Lambs so much that I keep subjecting myself to the cruelty these follow-ups deliver. IMO, Rocky V wasn't as bad though.
Sorry, PS....just more of those crappy sequel/prequel Hollywood money grabs we complained about in another thread not too long ago..

PeruvianSkies
06-04-2007, 11:10 AM
Hannibal, Red Dragon and now Hannibal Rising have been incredibly disappointing to me. I liked Silence of the Lambs so much that I keep subjecting myself to the cruelty these follow-ups deliver. IMO, Rocky V wasn't as bad though.
Sorry, PS....just more of those crappy sequel/prequel Hollywood money grabs we complained about in another thread not too long ago..

Well, SILENCE OF THE LAMBS stands alone as one of the masterpieces of it's time. Without a doubt one of the most influential films of the 1990's and a remarkable film that holds up today just the same. HANNIBAL was Ridley Scott's gothic follow up that attempted to get darker with the characters and I had mixed feelings overall. My initial thought of the film was utter disgust and then upon second viewing I started to understand where Ridley was trying to go with the film, but it fell flat on it's face too much. RED DRAGON was incredibly disappointing as it tried to hype up more of the suspense/thriller aspect, but again...too formulaic. MANHUNTER was far richer and deeper, plus like SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, more pschological, which is really what makes the series and the character of Lecter truly work.

HANNIBAL RISING...nothing pschological here at all. It was purely a vengeance thing with some of the character development being carved out (no pun intended). I would venture to say that the follow ups to SILENCE OF THE LAMBS have all been hollowed our versions of our character and results have proved that people are more afraid of the psyche of Lecter more than the actual blood and guts.

kexodusc
06-04-2007, 11:28 AM
HANNIBAL RISING...nothing pschological here at all. It was purely a vengeance thing with some of the character development being carved out (no pun intended). I would venture to say that the follow ups to SILENCE OF THE LAMBS have all been hollowed our versions of our character and results have proved that people are more afraid of the psyche of Lecter more than the actual blood and guts.

I think the reason these movies failed to reproduce the success of Silence of the Lambs is that they missed what made "Silence" so good.
It wasn't about Hannibal Lecter...there was far more too it than that, though he was a dynamic part of the story.
But the story itself, the other characters, Clarice, etc, gave much more substance to the film. Instead of trying to reproduce a great story and more clever interplay between two main characters, it just became an exercise in making Hannibal look worse than Jeffrey Dahmer.

PeruvianSkies
06-04-2007, 11:45 AM
I think the reason these movies failed to reproduce the success of Silence of the Lambs is that they missed what made "Silence" so good.
It wasn't about Hannibal Lecter...there was far more too it than that, though he was a dynamic part of the story.
But the story itself, the other characters, Clarice, etc, gave much more substance to the film. Instead of trying to reproduce a great story and more clever interplay between two main characters, it just became an exercise in making Hannibal look worse than Jeffrey Dahmer.

Indeed. The formula that works so beautifully in SILENCE is that we root for Hannibal, despite him being a villainous character. He is not even the central character as much as Clarice is. They are after Buffalo Bill, he is the "real" bad guy in the film and this is one of the few films where we must almost remain somewhat neatral with our feelings on Dr. Lecter. The follow up films, like you said, make him out to be more of the central horrific villain that everyone sorta loves to hate.

GMichael
06-04-2007, 01:13 PM
So? No liver & onions, sautéed in butter this time?

PeruvianSkies
06-04-2007, 07:49 PM
So? No liver & onions, sautéed in butter this time?

No this time we get cheeks and mushrooms.

SlumpBuster
06-22-2007, 06:34 PM
Watched this last weekend. I have to admit I loved it. My wife quit about have way through declaring it "stupid," and that I was "suspect for enjoying it." I said, "Hey, you're the one that thought Saw III would be good." I think it was a good example of a movie hitting you when you're in the right mood. and apparently I was in the right mood.

I didn't like any of the others except Silence. Didn't even like the critical darling Manhunter. But I went into this one with low low expectations and was pleasantly surprised. I thought the kid playing Hannibal was campy in a good way and did a great job.

PeruvianSkies
06-24-2007, 09:22 PM
Watched this last weekend. I have to admit I loved it. My wife quit about have way through declaring it "stupid," and that I was "suspect for enjoying it." I said, "Hey, you're the one that thought Saw III would be good." I think it was a good example of a movie hitting you when you're in the right mood. and apparently I was in the right mood.

I didn't like any of the others except Silence. Didn't even like the critical darling Manhunter. But I went into this one with low low expectations and was pleasantly surprised. I thought the kid playing Hannibal was campy in a good way and did a great job.

Mood has a huge impact on observing a film. I also feel that there are other influential pieces to the puzzle that most people rule out, such as if you saw a movie in a theater or at home, whether you were wide-awake or sleepy, if you were watching it with friends, by yourself, or with a spouse. These factors can weigh greatly on your overall experience with a film.