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GMancusa
01-24-2007, 12:05 PM
Sad to see such a great little speaker go, peerless apparently doesn't make the woofer any longer and Madisound dropped the kit

I use all seven in my dedicated home theater and I listen to a lot of music, being a mid base junkie I've never been happier.

I used just two of them for my deck party last summer and they had plenty of kick, even outside.

So sad:sad:

topspeed
01-24-2007, 02:07 PM
Mebbe we can get Ed to design another pair?:confused: I wonder if he knows the kit has been discontinued?

kexodusc
01-25-2007, 04:50 AM
I spoke to Ed about this last year when Peerless discontinued the woofer/tweeter.
He seemed to leave the door open to a new EFE DIY kit, though with the thousands of designs available now, I wouldn't blame for not bothering.
I think he scans the DIY forum regularly, so perhaps moving this thread there or putting in a request would draw his attention?

I built around 20 of those things. I have 7 of my own (though I finally made an MTM derivative for a center channel) I still use in my home theater. Since they were first made, a lot of new drivers and kits have hit the market and the bar has risen considerably as the DIY speaker market experienced a boom. That said, the ar.com is still not out of place beside many of them.

topspeed
01-25-2007, 10:26 AM
Here's why Ed hasn't bothered:

http://www.corvettebuyers.com/temp_photos/c6z06.jpg


If you had one of these, you'd be too busy to design a new speaker too! Ed and I email each other all the time on car stuff (the guy's a dedicated gearhead as well as a great speaker designer). I'll ask him about the new design and let you know.

kexodusc
01-25-2007, 10:56 AM
Yeah, I know all about Ed's toy...
Trying aweful hard not to be envious...but he makes it pretty darn hard, sometimes!!!

topspeed
01-25-2007, 03:51 PM
Yeah, I know all about Ed's toy...
Trying aweful hard not to be envious...but he makes it pretty darn hard, sometimes!!!

If the car makes you envious, you'd just hate his house! :devil:

Ed just told me that Brian at Madisound is sending him the new drivers. He's going to tinker around with them and see if the AR.com kit can be modified to work with the new drivers or if a new design will need to be made. Interestingly enough, Ed doesn't make a cent off those kits, only name recognition, so we should all be thankful there are people in this world that are nice enough to share their talents for free. He'll let us know how it all goes so check back.

kexodusc
01-25-2007, 04:30 PM
If the car makes you envious, you'd just hate his house! :devil:

Ed just told me that Brian at Madisound is sending him the new drivers. He's going to tinker around with them and see if the AR.com kit can be modified to work with the new drivers or if a new design will need to be made. Interestingly enough, Ed doesn't make a cent off those kits, only name recognition, so we should all be thankful there are people in this world that are nice enough to share their talents for free. He'll let us know how it all goes so check back.

You have no idea - I probably get 10-12 PM's a month about those speakers (still) and some other models Ed sells...I can only assume Ed gets hundreds more. The time it takes to answer can not be insignificant. He's quite gracious taking time to troubleshoot and answer questions from noobs, without any expectation of compensation. I'm sure I asked a few zingers myself - I know Ed never treated me anything but first class.

The new Peerless woofers are of higher quality - fs is different and the break-up nodes are moved as I recall - they might be salvageable in the design with tweaking - the tweeter is considerably better, and a whole new filter network will be needed there, I'm sure. I don't have the impedance and fr charts for them on my laptop here though.
This would be a much improved design if the replacement drivers are used, methinks.

GMancusa
01-31-2007, 08:29 AM
I agree Ed Frias is a very kind gentleman to say the least. I've only corresponded with him once and he answered all my questions promptly and without hesitation. As far as his design talents are concerned I can't say enough. The AR.Com is my favorite speaker to date, far exceeding my every expectation regardless of the price point. If Ed would be gracious enough "again" to design a version 2 around the newer/better drivers, all I can say is watch out!!

EFE Speakers
02-10-2007, 12:44 AM
Thanks for the kind words from all of you who have been supportive of me over the years, I'll always appreciate it!

The DIY has been a great little speaker that has made a lot music lovers happy over the last 7 years, and it's unfortunate that Peerless will not be manufacturing the woofer any longer. That particular woofer was not very popular and actually disliked by some speaker builders until they discovered how good it could sound with the right crossover design, the DIY made it famous! :cornut:

I have received many e-mails from customers all around the country thanking me for the kit and asking if I will be designing anything to take its place. Of course Madisound has benefited greatly from this little speaker and they hate to see it disappear also. The manufacturer of the DIY cabinets has also gone out of business and that makes it even harder to replace the kit until they find another.

I originally designed and posted the kit here on AR.com back in the late 1990's after receiving an overwhelming number of audio enthusiast asking if they could buy EFE speakers in kit form. I don't sell any of my speakers as kits but since the requests were made by so many (what I consider) "little guys" who couldn't afford audiophile speakers, I thought the DIY would be my contribution to this forum and the audio community at large. I never expected it to reach around the world with so much popularity, but it has and I'm thrilled so many music lovers appreciate it. The DIY also drew a lot of criticism from other speaker builders (and still does) but that hasn't stopped Madisound from listing it as their number "1" selling kit for the last several years, what does that say? :)

As mentioned by one poster who contacted me a couple of weeks ago, I'm now working on a replacement with Madisound's generosity, they have sent me a couple of their last cabinets (different colors ;)) along with a Seas woofer (and same Peerless tweeter) to hopefully take the place of the discontinued Peerless driver. I've spent a lot of time measuring and listening to the new woofer to see if it will perform as good as the Peerless, and I'm revealing it here at AR.com first before I even let Madisound know the results. I'm very pleased with the sound and the crossover will need only a minor change to meet the standard that many have come to know from the DIY!

Monday I'll notify Madisound, and as soon as they can have some new cabinets built the DIY should be up and running again! For those that may have been thinking of building it but didn't buy before Madisound's stock ran out, you'll soon have another chance! :cornut:

Thanks again for all your support and friendships!

All the best,
Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

SoundWize
02-15-2007, 08:25 AM
Hello Everyone,

I just got a response from Josh over at Madisound that a new version will be using the Seas H1350. No other info was given. More importantly it's another positive indicator that something new is coming. The question is when???

I'm curious about the speaker cabinet replacement... any one?

PS. To Ed Frias - I've read about your DIY speakers for years and never had a chance to listen to them till last week. Wow! I await eagerly for your next DIY kit and commit to building one for myself and my father. Will you consider doing 2 kits - a bookshelf and tower floorstanding version?

:16: SoundWize - Nicholas

EFE Speakers
02-15-2007, 08:49 AM
Will you consider doing 2 kits - a bookshelf and tower floorstanding version? :16: SoundWize - Nicholas

Sorry SoundWise,
I've been asked many times if I would offer a tower kit and I tell everybody the same thing! If I offered a tower besides the bookshelf I probably wouldn't be able to sell my EFE speakers, most would have all they need! :hand:

The DIY gives people a taste of EFE, if they want to graduate past that then they know where to go! :cornut:

As it is now, most find out that when they add a good subwoofer with the DIY it'll give them so much sound they'll probably not need to upgrade again. :eek6:

Thanks,
EFE Speakers

EFE Speakers
02-15-2007, 11:32 AM
Here's why Ed hasn't bothered:

By the way Topspeed, try this one, it's actually mine! :cornut:

EFE


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p87/EFEZ06/My%20Corvette/AmericaTheBeautiful2.jpg

SoundWize
02-15-2007, 12:55 PM
Ed,

While I was curious and partial to a possible tower design, it's a relief to know that you stand by the DIY as it is without a tower configuration. I was getting ahead of myself... and having a bookshelf configuration will definitely keep the price down. I'm looking forward to buying the new kit and checking here and Madisound daily for the release.

PS. Gearhead here too! Even though I'm a Porsche owner (Florida's Gold Coast Porsche Club America Zone 12), I'm a big Chevy Corvette fan too.

SoundWize:16:

kexodusc
02-15-2007, 01:11 PM
I've "modified" Ed's design several times over, including a tower design - it can be done if you want.
But be aware that any modification does change the sound of the speaker and doesn't really hit the "value" and "easy" features of the kit design as well, and those were the two biggest sellers for me - this was my 2nd project and first solo project!!! The tower model with only 1 woofer probably sounded the "closest" to the original, though the bass gain isn't substantial and really isn't worth it IMO. All the other mods were good compromises to achieve certain goals, but still compromises. I'd only recommend them in specific situations over the original....trust the man.
I used a dummy chamber in tower versions of another design to build dual subs into the lower compartment of them, thus keeping the original dimensions/design in tact except for the longer front baffle - not a big difference, but not zero, either. Suppose you could do that, but for the work/cost, you're better off with a separate sub and sticking with the original design.

SoundWize
03-20-2007, 04:35 PM
I've been checking madisound.com for the new kit... nothing yet. :confused:

Does EFE Technologies or Ed Frias have a website?

EFE Speakers
03-20-2007, 07:29 PM
I've been checking madisound.com for the new kit... nothing yet. :confused: Does EFE Technologies or Ed Frias have a website?

If you can build your own cabinets, call Madisound and tell them you want the new DIY Ed Frias has designed. It's almost the exact crossover as before with just a couple of values changed on the tweeter circuit. I'm assuming they are waiting to find another cabinet manufacturer before they release it, but since they already have all the parts (including the new Seas woofer), they could start selling the new kit now. If they give you any run a round please let me know by posting on this thread, thanks!

Success,
Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers
EFESPEAKERS@commspeed.net

cfwiggam
03-21-2007, 09:30 AM
Has anyone compared these speakers to the B&W DM602 S3 speakers (which I currently have). I am thinking about buying a kit to replace my B&W's. Better, worse, opinions?

SoundWize
03-23-2007, 05:16 PM
:5: Thanks Ed... it's going to be one of my goals in life to build my own speaker where I design & create the cabinet, cross-over, and select the drivers to my taste (dreaming of building a Wilson Audio Sophia or Watt/Puppy replica). I wanted to buy the AR.com speaker kit as a whole so I could get first had experience, as a novice, putting together a speaker and studying how it's all done up.

As tempted as I am to go to the garage and put together a cabinet... the angel on my shoulder says "no, no... not until you learn from the master speaker builder." I'm going to wait till Madisound figures the right cabinet mfg for the kit. I'm hoping soon!!!

The last post by cfwiggam is one of the reasons why I'm looking at the AR.com kit. I've auditioned the B&W 602 S3's and they are pretty darn good but they are $600 at my local dealer. I've listened to the AR.com speakers and I think they are darn good too... I've been itching to get a new set of speakers (currently have Magnepan MMGs which I'm a bit disappointed with).

I've owned B&Ws in the past but in all honesty I'd like to try something that's a bit more personal... something I was involved in the creation.

I'm a marketing director who sometimes wishes he was an engineer... :16:

EFE Speakers
03-23-2007, 09:53 PM
For those interested, here are the AR.com Kit Cabinet specs:

¾ inch MDF material

Outside dimensions are
13 inches high x 8 ¾ inches wide x 9 ¼ inches deep

Inside dimensions are
11 ½ inches high x 7 ¼ inches wide x 7 ¾ deep

Port size is 2 inches in diameter (ID) x 6 inches deep from rear surface.
Rear Port hole is centered (widthwise) and 3 inches from top to center of port.

Speaker input terminal hole is 1 15/16 inches in diameter. It is countersunk for the flange 1/8 inch deep x 3 inches in diameter. This can be changed if you desire another type or size speaker terminal. Rear Speaker terminal hole is centered (widthwise) and 3 inches from bottom to center of hole.

Front Tweeter hole is 3 5/16 in diameter. Front tweeter hole is also centered widthwise and also 3 inches from top of cabinet to center of hole. If you opt to countersink the tweeter, cut 1/8 inch deep x 4 1/8 inches in diameter.

Front woofer hole is 5 5/8 inches in diameter. If you opt to countersink, use 3/16 inches deep x 6 15/16 inches in diameter. This will now change with the new Seas driver.

Front woofer is centered 4 ¼ inches from bottom of cabinet to center of hole.

If you choose to increase the cabinet thickness to 1 inch, increase all the outer dimensions (WxHxD) by 1/2 inch and compensate for centering all holes!

Although the discontinued Peerless and the new Seas driver used in the kit allow for a larger cabinet, I designed the DIY specifically to produce a very tight, clean upper bass and lower midrange and felt most builders would use a separate subwoofer for the deeper bass frequencies. This also is the reason why the speaker is able to play extremely loud and clean without distortion, figuring a good high current amp is used.

Success!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers
efespeakers@commspeed.net

SoundWize
03-24-2007, 11:27 AM
:ihih: Ed, Now you got me very tempted to build the cabinets myself... Thanks for the detailed info on the cabinets.

Nicholas

bcass
05-17-2007, 11:15 AM
Thank God I finally found you guys. I had been involved in this EFE Speaker kit conversation in 2005 when I thought I was ready to build them, but I wasn't. Now I am. :-) I am so relieved to hear the kits are available again at Madisound, and with new drivers too, nice.

Has anyone drawn up a CAD or other picture of the speaker cabinets that I could work from? I'm a visual guy and pictures are much easier to work with for me. Also, is there a link somewhere to help with how to laminate or veneer the MDF?

Thanks!
Bryan

PRJackson
10-04-2007, 10:52 AM
Hi all,

This thread kind of died while I was waiting (hoping) to hear details of what changes are necessary to use the Seas H1350 replacement for the old Peerless woofer. Ed Frias said that "It's almost the exact crossover as before with just a couple of values changed on the tweeter circuit", but he doesn't say what the changes are.

I an hoping to build another set of these from scratch as I did before without using the Madisound kit. Does anyone know what the crossover changes are?

Thanks!

- Phil

topspeed
10-05-2007, 10:34 AM
Use Ed's link to his e-mail. He'll get back to you, trust me.

EFE Speakers
10-06-2007, 07:48 PM
For all interested, my new DIY is the same design (crossover) as the older model except for three changes!

1. The new uses the Seas 7" woofer. Model is Prestige Series #1350-08 Type P18RNX/P
2. The resistor for the tweeter installed on the circuit board is 7.5 ohm (10 watt).
3. The resistor attached to the tweeters positive terminal (with QD's) is 2 ohm (10 watt).

The new woofer requires a little larger hole (1/16 to 3/32 inch) to be cut in the cabinet or to bevel the inside edge of the previous woofer cut-out.

I noticed Madisound is advertising the kit as "NOT AVAILABLE" on their website now, tell them you want the old kit with the new woofer and the new specified resistors. If they no longer offer the crossover, then tell them you'll buy the parts elsewhere and build it anyhow! I don't know why they are not selling the new version because it sounds just as good if not better than the old? They will probably need to hear that there are still many customers out there that want to build the kit before they make it available again? So, start calling and bugging them!

EFE TECHNOLOGY DIY Parts list

Tweeter - Peerless #812687

Woofer - Seas #H1350-08

Resistors
7.5 ohm 10watt (1) For tweeter on circuit board
2 ohm 10watt (1) For tweeter attached at tweeter
1 ohm 10watt (1) For woofer secondary circuit

Capacitors
4.7uf 200v capacitor (2) For tweeter and woofer circuit

Inductors
2mh (.5 DCR) aircore inductor (1) For woofer circuit
.4mh (.4 to .7 DCR) aircore inductor (1) For woofer secondary circuit
.3mh (.4 to .7 DCR) aircore inductor) (1) For tweeter circuit

Note: The variable values attached to the tweeter in the diagram below (.2 to .8 ohms), those were choices on the original DIY but are not to be used on the new version, only a 2 ohm should be used on the tweeter itself!

Also the 5 ohm (on the board) is now to be changed to a 7.5 ohm.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p87/EFEZ06/efe-diy1.jpg

DIY Reviews
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/diy/PRD_125043_1594crx.aspx


:cornut:
Success,
Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers
efespeakers@commspeed.net

PRJackson
10-09-2007, 10:10 AM
Thanks a lot ED !!

- Phil

EFE Speakers
10-09-2007, 11:13 AM
Your welcome and success!

EFE

kexodusc
10-09-2007, 11:34 AM
Hi Ed,
I think it's great that you are still providing this design and updating to deal with the Peerless catalog turnover.
I can only speculate on Madisound's motives, but if I had to guess why they aren't selling it, I would guess it's because Peerless discontinued 812687 tweeter and they are out of stock...I couldn't find that tweeter on their website.

EFE Speakers
10-09-2007, 12:18 PM
Geeez,
Brian never told me anything about the tweeter not being available, he just said the woofer was no longer around and sent me the new Seas to work with? Guess I'll have to call him and see if something has replaced the tweeter now, sounds like I'll have to do some more tuning!

I'm having to do the same for my EFE line of speakers, I can no longer get the titanium tweeter I've used for years in my speakers. Why change something when it isn't broken? :crazy:

Thanks,
Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

EFE Speakers
10-09-2007, 12:43 PM
Ok,
Here's the story! Madisound has 32 of the Peerless tweeters still in stock as of today, so anybody wanting to build my newest version better buy the tweeters ASAP! The tweeters are discontinued and when the stock is out they have no replacement.

I was told that they (Madisound) have tried to use a new Seas tweeter (H1189) with my present version of the DIY and found it didn't match well with my crossover, thus the reason why they are not posting the kit as available. They have designed a new crossover using the Seas woofer (H1350) and tweeter (H1189) and claim that it sounds very good. They said they could substitute the AR.com DIY crossover with it, but since I didn't design or hear it I couldn't give my approval.

I asked Madisound to send me the new Seas tweeter and their new crossover and I'll hook it up and do my own tuning and testing to see how it sounds. I will first try to adapt the tweeter to the present DIY crossover and see if it is just a matter of redesigning the tweeter circuit, if not, then I'll take their crossover and approve or disapprove of how it sounds. If their crossover isn't up to my preference, I'll make some changes in it and tell them to offer my revised version as the AR.com DIY design.

Either way, eventually a new AR.com DIY by EFE TECHNOLOGY will still be available when the Peerless tweeters run out! I'll keep you all posted, thanks!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers
efespeakers@commspeed.net

EFE Speakers
10-16-2007, 12:01 AM
For everybody's information!

Since Peerless has discontinued the tweeter for the DIY as they did the woofer, Madisound has designed a new crossover using the Seas woofer (mentioned earlier) and new Seas tweeter, they requested that both be used for the new DIY.

I've just spent at least 16 hours listening, testing and revising their crossover and will e-mail Madisound the results later today. The crossovers they sent me (along with the new Seas tweeters) were overly complicated and really didn't live up to the kind of sound that has earned the DIY an almost perfect "5" rating here at AudioReview.com.

After modifying and actually simplifying the crossovers I can say without any reservation the new DIY will live up to everything the older version was and more. I'm very pleased with these Seas drivers and find them to be very natural sounding when tuned properly! After spending the last couple of hours just listening to various types of music, I'm sure these new DIY's will satisfy even the most critical audiophile, considering it is only a bookshelf speaker. :23:

As with the previous version, I've designed a changeable resistor to attach to the tweeter so the speakers can be fine tuned to individual's various systems. The standard removable resistor that will come with the kit will be a 2 ohm, owners can increase or decrease the value depending on their particular tastes.

Madisound now has new cabinets available for those that prefer to purchase the complete kit with electronics and cabinets.

You heard it here first, even before Madisound gets the news!

:cornut:

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers
efespeakers@commspeed.net

EFE Speakers
10-29-2007, 10:56 PM
I don't know why Madisound is holding up the new version from being posted, but here is a rough schematic and parts list for those that want to build the latest EFE DIY using all Seas drivers. It is a very simple design yet produces the great sound all have come to expect from the previous DIY! Please excuse the rough drawing.

On Madisound's website they offer their own crossover design ($37.65 each) for these two Seas drivers, but I do not recommend it unless you desire an "upfront in your face sound." I thoroughly tested their crossovers and though they measured fine were too unnatural and bright in my personal opinion. The simple design below allows both drivers to produce a more natural sound that I believe the manufacturer meant to have. It is also my opinion that crossover designs should be kept as simple as possible when good drivers are used, this is the case with the new AR.com DIY.

:cornut:

Success,
Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

Parts list
Tweeter - Seas 27TDFC (H1189)

Woofer - Seas P18RNX/P (H1350)

Resistors
1 ohm 10watt (1) For tweeter (circuit board mounted)
2 ohm 10watt (1) Removable - attached at tweeter with QC's .
The 2 ohm can substituted with a 1 ohm (more detail) or a 4 ohm (warmer).


Capacitors
4.7uf (200-400v) (1) For tweeter circuit

Inductors
.2mh (20 to 22 gauge) aircore inductor (1) For tweeter circuit
.9mh (.5 or less DCR) aircore inductor (1) For woofer circuit

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p87/EFEZ06/MVC-006F.jpg

nedfp
11-09-2007, 02:17 PM
All I can say is that I was so dissapointed when I found that I could not get my hands on this famous DIY. I am in the process of selling off my prized Infinity Crescendo / Kappas to make room for a new HT. I have been comparing my options (B&W 602 S3 & 685, Paradigm Studio 20 V3 & V4, and NHT Classic 3 or even building a sealed 1 cu ft cabinet for the IW4). I really want to get my hands dirty, and this is a great jumpinging point.

Funny, I was actually looking using these drivers by myself prior to your post, based on Zaph's driver comparison. On paper these look like a fantastic speaker. I will call Madisound today and order the components.

We are all in your debt.

bcass
12-26-2007, 09:15 AM
Thank God I finally found you guys. I had been involved in this EFE Speaker kit conversation in 2005 when I thought I was ready to build them, but I wasn't. Now I am. :-) I am so relieved to hear the kits are available again at Madisound, and with new drivers too, nice.

Has anyone drawn up a CAD or other picture of the speaker cabinets that I could work from? I'm a visual guy and pictures are much easier to work with for me. Also, is there a link somewhere to help with how to laminate or veneer the MDF?

Thanks!
Bryan

Here I am following up to my own post. :-)

I'm ready to buy the parts to put 4 of these DIY speakers together. Does anyone have a materials list to build the cabinets? I have Ed's instructions on the cabinets already (but will it fit the new Seas drivers?) but it would be nice to see pictures and cutting diagrams and how to glue them together and all that stuff. Has anyone done this?

Also, I wrote to Madisound today and am getting a quote on all of the hardware needed. I don't think they sell the kits yet - or will at all?

Thanks!
Bryan

mbkfab
01-04-2008, 04:50 PM
Hi Ed,

You may not remember but you helped me(as you have with countless of your "followers") with the AR.com original.

Well, it was time for a new DIY when I came across this thread. I'm in CANADA and This woofer is not (or not yet) available on this side of the line. Is it replaceable with another SEAS woofer in the RNX line? Even with slight variants in the Wfr crossover...(long story, short: crossborder duty hassle).

If you think it would be worth it for me, then I can just get a pair from Madisound.

Also, is that Crossover about at 2kHz? For use with the .5 ft3 enclosure?

thanks,
Migs

kexodusc
01-04-2008, 05:13 PM
Hi Ed,

You may not remember but you helped me(as you have with countless of your "followers") with the AR.com original.

Well, it was time for a new DIY when I came across this thread. I'm in CANADA and This woofer is not (or not yet) available on this side of the line. Is it replaceable with another SEAS woofer in the RNX line? Even with slight variants in the Wfr crossover...(long story, short: crossborder duty hassle).

If you think it would be worth it for me, then I can just get a pair from Madisound.

Also, is that Crossover about at 2kHz? For use with the .5 ft3 enclosure?

thanks,
Migs
Migs,

I'm not Ed, but why not just order it from Madisound? Ask for shipping by anyone but UPS and the brokerage charges won't be too bad. USPS is my preference. They might charge you $5, that's it.

EFE Speakers
01-04-2008, 06:33 PM
Hi Ed,

You may not remember but you helped me(as you have with countless of your "followers") with the AR.com original.

Well, it was time for a new DIY when I came across this thread. I'm in CANADA and This woofer is not (or not yet) available on this side of the line. Is it replaceable with another SEAS woofer in the RNX line? Even with slight variants in the Wfr crossover...(long story, short: crossborder duty hassle).

If you think it would be worth it for me, then I can just get a pair from Madisound.

Also, is that Crossover about at 2kHz? For use with the .5 ft3 enclosure?

thanks,
Migs

Hi Migs,
Switching a driver in a pre-designed speaker is like switching a carburetor from one engine to another without tuning it! Sometimes in a 3 way speaker the woofer can be substituted with something a little different and it might work out ok, but in a 2 way speaker where one driver is handling both the low and mid range frequencies, it is critical that driver be substituted with another having the same exact parameters.

A good sounding speaker as a whole is the sum of all its parts being matched together well, change only one part and you change the whole. When you only take this step (of building a pair of speakers) every so many years, what's a few dollars more one way or the other for the joy they bring you in the long run? I say go for it! :thumbsup:

Success,
Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

EFE Speakers
01-18-2008, 12:35 PM
Hi Ed,
Also, is that Crossover about at 2kHz? For use with the .5 ft3 enclosure?
thanks,
Migs

Yes, the crossover point is at 2K.

Has anyone built the speakers yet?

Thanks,

:)

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

bcass
02-12-2008, 02:00 PM
Yes, the crossover point is at 2K.

Has anyone built the speakers yet?

Thanks,

:)

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

I'm about to start, Ed. When I get my tax return money, I'll buy the drivers and hardware from Madisound. It sounds like it'll be about $100 per speaker. Then I'll get the MDF from Home Depot and start cutting! :-)

I may do a pictorial step-by-step of building it, since I can't seem to find anything like that on the web. It would sure help a visual person like me!


Thanks,
Bryan

mbkfab
02-13-2008, 04:51 AM
Hey Bryan,

I'm glad to see you enthusiasm on this. However, from experience, I have some advice for you on the Cabinet segment of this project.

Since you're waiting for you tax return to come back, why not just consider the finished boxes at PARTS EXPRESS (no, I don't work for PartsExpress.com). By about the time it takes for your return to be in your hands, the "FREE SHIPPING" deal at PE may be back again. They have this offer about twice a year.

For about $75/box (Shipped to your door during the promo) you can have an extremely presentable professionally made speaker box. You couldn't come up with something like this for less (time & money-wise). I've done it a few times and have NEVER been disappointed. I've since purchased 4 of the Curved-side type...WOW!

Check it out

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=302-720

Migs

bcass
02-13-2008, 07:40 AM
Since you're waiting for you tax return to come back, why not just consider the finished boxes at PARTS EXPRESS (no, I don't work for PartsExpress.com). By about the time it takes for your return to be in your hands, the "FREE SHIPPING" deal at PE may be back again. They have this offer about twice a year.


Thanks, Migs! Those are nice-looking cabinets. But I was really looking forward to making my own, actually. I like building stuff -- birdhouses, bookshelves, fishtank stands... so I figured this project would be fun too. I'll try it first, and if I turn out with a paperweight instead of a speaker box, I'll consider the prebuilt ones. :cornut:

The only question I have is how to drill out the speaker holes, how to build decent grills, and how to finish the MDF to look good.

Bryan

Edit: Now that I look at this cabinets more closely... they really are nice! But are they the right volume/size for Ed's design? Hmmm... you're almost convincing me to spend the $$ on them instead of building my own. But shipping for 4 of them is $45 for me, wow! When do they usually offer free shipping again?

I also need to build a subwoofer for this 4.1 system as well. Have you built that yourself before? I want to make it look 1940's-ish.

bcass
02-14-2008, 06:20 AM
I looked a little closer, and also emailed Ed, and it looks like this is the cabinet that's closest to Ed's design, volume-wise:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=302-710

It's .38 cu ft and Ed's design is about .374 cu ft. Close enough. So I think I can use the same port tube size of 2" ID by 6" long, and about 1/4 lb of polyfill per speaker.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-387

I also picked out these terminals:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-302

Now we just have to wait for free shipping, because it would be about $50 to ship 4 of these sets to me! :eek:

mbkfab
02-15-2008, 04:09 PM
In my experience a .5-ft3 will do just fine. Use a 1.5"ID x 4" flared port, you'll be just fine. That'll tune it at about 38-40hz. Plus, you get a nicer glow in the Mid-bass region (IMO). Certainly, when I asked Ed about it, (with all due respect) there was no objection. Although, there was no confirmation either (my version of "between the lines").

To make the driver cut-outs: If you still don't have a Jasper Circle Jig, get one! I myself mulled over that decision for over a year. That was just a waste of time. I tried using one of those Roto-Zip-Style cutters. Geez, what was I thinking.

I have more things to say about this jig, but I'll save it for when asked.

For Binding posts: Please use these
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-1250

When you get the speaker Cabinets in from UPS, you won't wanna use anything less. TRUST ME! These cabinets are first class. Those terminals are for your run-of-the-mill particle board type boxes.

bcass
02-19-2008, 02:17 PM
For Binding posts: Please use these
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-1250

When you get the speaker Cabinets in from UPS, you won't wanna use anything less. TRUST ME! These cabinets are first class. Those terminals are for your run-of-the-mill particle board type boxes.

Are these posts the ones that they say the cabinets are pre-drilled for?

I can't wait to get my tax return money so I can get started... hurry up IRS!! :-)



So, this is what I have ready in a cart to order from PartsExpress.com:

<PRE>Contents of Shopping Cart
Part Number In Stock Description Qty. Price Ext. Price
004-1 Yes Dayton DNR-1.0 1 Ohm 10W Non-Inductive .. $0.98 $7.84
004-2 Yes Dayton DNR-2.0 2 Ohm 10W Non-Inductive .. $0.98 $3.92
004-4 Yes Dayton DNR-4.0 4 Ohm 10W Non-Inductive .. $0.98 $3.92
091-1250 Yes Dayton BPGS-25G Binding Post w/1" Threa .. $11.33 $22.66
260-120 Yes Crossover PC Board 2-Way 12 dB .. $6.80 $27.20
260-302 Yes Gold Plated Speaker Terminal .. $2.95 $11.80
260-317 Yes Acousta-Stuf Polyfill 1 lb. Bag .. $9.00 $9.00
260-387 Yes Port Tube 2" ID Adjustable .. $2.39 $9.56
255-024 Yes Jantzen 0.20mH 20 AWG Air Core Inductor .. $2.54 $10.16
255-246 Yes Jantzen 0.90mH 18 AWG Air Core Inductor .. $6.55 $26.20
302-710 Yes Dayton TW-0.38BK .38 ft³ 2-Way Cabinet .. $64.77 $259.08
Subtotal: $391.34 </PRE>

And this is what I have ready to order from Madisound.com:

<PRE>Product(s) Qty. Total

27TDFC (H1189) Textile dome 4 $140.60
P18RNX/P (H1350) 7" Poly Cone Woofer 4 $271.00
4.7μF PX Range Polypropylene Capacitors 4 $15.40

Sub-Total: $427.00</PRE>

mbkfab
02-19-2008, 06:05 PM
Hey Bryan,

These binding posts (PE# 091-1250) are the bare minimum you can use. So YES, they will fit. However, I stopped using them after trying out the larger ones. To make them fit, all need be done is use a larger drill bit (3/8", I think) on the existing holes. This will give it a snug fit to screw into.

Check out these Binding Posts:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-624

I use these for its beefy, high-end look. The Satin-Nickel finish just looks plush (IMHO). Sure it's a bit more money. But you get what you pay for.

Also, I have used this SEAS H1189 Tweeter in about 5 projects. With speaker grills on, my friends (also enthusiasts) were treated to blind demos of 2 other projects using the same woofers. This tweeter was vigorously voted for 4/5 times, CONSISTENTLY. I'll spare the typical audio-speak terms & phrases used to describe, but they were genuine due to the blind testing method.

bcass
02-20-2008, 06:19 AM
Check out these Binding Posts:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-624


OK people -- I'm not going to pay $60 for binding posts for my 4 speakers! And then you have to buy this plate to go with them??

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-600

Really, how much difference in practical sound quality can a binding post make? Maybe I'll just go back to those cheap, $2.95 ones (260-302) I had at first. :smilewinkgrin:

mbkfab
02-21-2008, 04:54 PM
Well, truth be told the binding post you use will NOT make a difference in sound. At least NOTHING you can distinctly hear. You're right. Not an iota. Unless your a highly sensitive, finely tuned NASA calibre measuring instrument!

I guess it was an attempt to qualify my opinion of the cabinets. I just meant to say that the finish is of such high quality, you may want to use appropriate type binding posts (cosmetically, at least).

Either way, good luck. Please post here the results of your project.

bcass
02-22-2008, 06:21 AM
Well, truth be told the binding post you use will NOT make a difference in sound. At least NOTHING you can distinctly hear. You're right. Not an iota. Unless your a highly sensitive, finely tuned NASA calibre measuring instrument!

I guess it was an attempt to qualify my opinion of the cabinets. I just meant to say that the finish is of such high quality, you may want to use appropriate type binding posts (cosmetically, at least).

Either way, good luck. Please post here the results of your project.

Hehe... OK, will do. Now if I can just get my income tax refund to get here soon, I'll be all set. :)

rlust
02-26-2008, 04:44 AM
I am new to this forum, and just found this project. I am very excited to build this myself!
Has anyone completed this new version?

What are your results?:confused5:

HAs anyone built a comlimentry sub to match this project?

Cheers!

bcass
02-26-2008, 01:24 PM
I am new to this forum, and just found this project. I am very excited to build this myself!
Has anyone completed this new version?

What are your results?:confused5:

HAs anyone built a comlimentry sub to match this project?

Cheers!

You're asking the exact same questions I am! :smilewinkgrin: I'll let you know if I get mine built first -- I'll race ya! I plan on taking pictures as I go, so I should have at least some of the step-by-step done, although I'm not building my own cabinets.

But regarding a subwoofer, I would like to make one of those after I finish the 4 bookshelf speakers. I have no clue how or if you have to match it to the rest of the speakers. I would love to hear any input on that. Here's a thread in this forum on subwoofers... maybe this will help.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=10366

rlust
02-26-2008, 07:25 PM
Sounds fun!
I ordered my parts today.

I am building my own cabinets. I started building tonigth. The cabinets are going to be solid cherry.

I will take pictures during the process also!:3:

I hope the results meet my expectations.

bcass
02-27-2008, 01:12 PM
Sounds fun!
I ordered my parts today.

I am building my own cabinets. I started building tonigth. The cabinets are going to be solid cherry.

I will take pictures during the process also!:3:

I hope the results meet my expectations.

You should really use MDF and then veneer it with cherry. MDF is much more stable and I think it's more dense. What did the materials cost? I'm still kind of debating whether to buy cabinets or build them - but leaning toward buying them because I'm not sure I can do it well enough. For the sub though, I will definitely build my own.

rlust
02-27-2008, 04:48 PM
I am going to try the cherry. It is a very dense heavy wood.
I have a wood shop and several hundreed feet of rough sawn cherry so really no cost :)

I am about ready to assemble the cabinets.

Will let you know how it goes.

bcass
03-02-2008, 07:12 PM
I ordered the drivers from Madisound yesterday -- will ship tomorrow. I'll order the other parts from PartsExpress tomorrow and should have everything in hand by next weekend. I can't wait! :)

bcass
03-13-2008, 07:33 AM
I'm almost done. I have the crossovers built, and I just cut the holes for the drivers last night. I have to cut the port tube holes, then wire them up and install the drivers. I should be done this weekend. I'm taking pictures along the way, which I'll post (somewhere?) when I'm done.

Bryan

PRJackson
03-14-2008, 04:56 AM
Actually, solid cherry is not the best material for speaker cabinets because they resonate. The best speaker cabinet material for these speakers is 3/4" MDF because it is accoustically dead, then you can either veneer or paint them.

Slippers On
03-16-2008, 06:22 AM
Whaaahhhooooooww!!!!

A nice sense of community spirit here in this thread and full marks to EFE for designating his time to his passion.

To me this is what the internet should be about. You have a guy, EFE, willing to pass on his knowledge and expertise to others, for no gain, just because he loves what he does.

EFE I admire your sentiments.

Many years ago in the 1970s I built a kit speaker the Kef/Wilmslow Audio CS1 and, although it is not my main speaker system, I have been reluctant to let it go. To this day the CS1 is recognised in Britain as one of the all time greats, based on the famous L3/5a designed by Rogers. It has it's place in history.

I see here exactly the same thing happening. The beauty of building your own speakers can not be over emphasised. I highly recommend anyone sitting on the fence to jump into it with passion and devotion.

Hell knows I am tempted to ship the parts myself in a desire to relive the buzz I got back in the 1970s.

EFE thank you for contributing.

Slippers flapping!!

bcass
03-16-2008, 05:39 PM
Dang, I am so excited! I finished up 4 of the Ed's 'new and improved' AR.com speakers with the SEAS drivers tonight and I am at this moment listening to them for the first time! I hooked them up to a Panasonic SA-XR55 I bought a couple months ago and haven't had it plugged in until tonight.

I'm kind of afraid to play them too loud until they're broken in, so I have the volume set at about -50db. I'm also not really sure what the frequency response is for these speakers, but I set the receiver to play them full-range. I'm planning on building a sub soon, so when that happens I'll reset the receiver to play bass only through the sub.

I don't have a point of reference, so I can't tell you how "good" they sound -- but they sound fine to me so far just playing FM radio. So how long should I play them before they're broken in, and how do you tell?

Bryan

bcass
03-20-2008, 10:07 AM
So, rlust... did you finish yours yet? If not... I WIN! :) They sound fine, although I would like to test them to make sure they are performing up to spec (whatever that would be). I have a Radio Shack SPL meter and downloaded a program to measure things from http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/. But I don't know what/how to do it.

Next project will be a sub to go with these speakers, but I have no idea where to start or what to get for that. I wrote to PartsExpress.com to see if they could help me come up with something. Will let you know...

Thanks!
Bryan

rlust
03-27-2008, 04:16 AM
I completed my pair a couple of weeks ago!

They sound fantastic! As far as breaking mine in I just hooked them up and started using them. First to my upstaris systems and then to my home theater system. I hear a improvement when hooked up to my Yamaha RXV-1500. I have a complete Infinity speaker system in the theater with Infinity IL60s in front. I was very impressed with these little bookshelf compaered to the Infinitys.

They have an amazing sound stage and presense that is much better than I expected, and I had high expectations. I am using these speakers to teach my 11 year old son how to listen to a quality speaker! He can hear the difference in the openess and lack of distortion ecven at high volume levels I have run them at -5db on the Yamaha with great results!:3:


Pictures to follow of the build process and results!

This has been fun and ready to build another pair for my summer house.

Cheers!

kexodusc
03-27-2008, 04:52 AM
bcass, rlust - congrats on finishing your projects.

In terms of testing - unless you have a mic and measurement jig setup there's not a whole lot in terms of meaningful Frequency Response measuring you can do - even with test tones and an SPL meter. The SPL meters are too imprecise to be of much use here, unless your home has an anechoic chamber in it. If you followed the instructions and the components are up to snuff (and Seas quality is as good as any), it should be up to spec. Your ears would hear something if they were off. Trust your gut. Enjoy the music.

rlust
03-27-2008, 06:28 AM
Here is a link to several pictures.

http://picasaweb.google.com/rclust/CheerySpeakerCompany


Maybe cherry is not the best cabinet wood, but the warm sound that I get from an acoustic guitar and piano solo is amazing, and I am very happy!


THANKS ED!!!

PRJackson
03-31-2008, 09:45 AM
rlust,

Very nice job on the cabinets.

One piece of advice. I noticed that you completely filled the cabinets with stuffing. Ed says that they should have about 1/2 of the cabinet loosely filled - no more. Others have made the same mistake in the past with these speakers, and you will find they sound quite a bit better with less stuffing.

rlust
04-01-2008, 01:56 PM
PRJackson,

Thanks for the tip, I will make the change and see if I hear the difference!

Does Ed Recommend that the cabinet is sealed internally?

kexodusc
04-01-2008, 02:08 PM
PRJackson,

Thanks for the tip, I will make the change and see if I hear the difference!

Does Ed Recommend that the cabinet is sealed internally?
I wouldn't bother using any solvent sealer if that's what you're asking.
I would recommend running a thin bead of silicone along the seams though. You want to minimize air leaks.

mbkfab
04-09-2008, 12:43 AM
Hey guys.

I've been away a while. This project hasn't escaped me, though. I'm glad there's a finished example here already.

Bryan, I see you went for the PartsExpress Cabinet. quite nice, huh? They just look so good -- Well built too! I recently finished a couple of pairs using the Curved-side version of those cabinets.

The Cherry Veneered ones look so Rich! The finish is unmatched for the money.

How about a review/comparison from anyone. Surely there are opinions by now.

BluesDaddy
06-09-2008, 07:07 AM
This thread kind of died out. I haven't been here for awhile, but I built a pair of the original design back in 2003. I also got the BIC center channel speaker and had Ed modify the cross over to voice it to the AR. Truly great sounding speakers for the money (and a lot of fun to build).

I hadn't realized all the significant changes in the interim until I read through this thread. I've got a daughter getting married next year about this time and made an off-handed comment about building another pair of speakers and giving them my ARs. After reading this I'm not so sure...might have to just build them something else. These are too fine a little speaker to let get away.

Now, the real point of this thread, two things. Has anyone compared the sound of the old version to the latest with the Seas drivers?

Second, any suggestions on recommended parts for the crossovers. I'm not a big believer in being able to hear the difference in capacitors and inductors, but was wondering about what gauge wire for the inductors would be best to go for or any other recommendations for the actual components other than the values. My recollection about the original design is there was a complete parts list.

Just as an aside, based on just my initial look at costs, the price of these has risen considerably. In 2003, a pair cost me $325, including boxes (pre-builts from Speaker City) and shipping.

FlashGordon
07-17-2009, 10:28 AM
If anyone cares here is the updated Schematic for the Ed Frais DIY v2 Speakers.

http://i30.tinypic.com/kw411.jpg

Ed recommends the 2 Ohm resistor at the Tweeter, but said people can put a 1, 2 or 4 in its place.

FlashGordon

JJsnoise
08-29-2009, 08:18 AM
I see it's been a couple of months since this thread has had much action. But I'm new here and this seems like a project I'd like to do.

I'm getting close to finishing my detached garage and will finally have a place to do some projects this Fall/Winter. After several years of being away from my audio enthusiasm, I finally jumped back in after years working on my old fixer-uppper house. Finally got the living room trimmed out completely and painted. It's a small house so I really only have room to mount bookshelf sized speakers on the wall. Right now I have my old PSB Alphas from the early 90's mounted via Omnimounts to the wall on either side of the Panny Plasma.
I've always enjoyed woodworking and I'd love to take on this project. I've recently purchased some catalyzed black primer and dull varnish for another project and I think it would make a nice finish for MDF speaker cabinets.

But I have a couple of additional ideas. I recently purchased a Onkyo HT Receiver and I'd like to try a DIY 5.1 speaker setup:

I presume these same drivers would work well to make a complementary center channel speaker for HT. I also presume that the 1 tweeter & 2 woofer setup would be the way to go? If so, what cabinet and crossover modifications would need to be made? Good idea or no?

This is such a highly acclaimed DIY bookshelf speaker kit. It seems to be a great way for those of us who don't have alot of "hobby cash" to still be able to enjoy quality sound. Is there such a highly acclaimed DIY powered subwoofer kit that would blend well with these bookshelf speakers?

GMancusa
11-16-2009, 01:58 PM
JJsnoise,

The best person to ask is Ed Frias himself, for advise on the center speaker. Right now I run 7 DIY V1's in my dedicated theater room all powered by an Anthem MCA5 and MCA 20 via an Outlaw 990 processor. The center channel uses the same speaker (upright like the rest). The sound stage is wonderful, powerful and clean, and with all 7 powered up, listening to music is so visceral that you can't conceive anything sounding better.

Nice to see this thread has gone on for so long since I posted it almost 3 years ago. It reflects very highly on a speaker that is becoming sort of a cult favorite because it is just that good.

Regards

GMan

SoonerGlory
04-02-2020, 02:57 PM
So what’s the latest on these mods?