Subwoofer with the center channel

[JeffKnob]

I have been toying around with the idea of putting a small cheap subwoofer inline with my center channel. I would run the speaker wire into the speaker level inputs and then out to my center channel. I figured that since the center is supposed to play the majority of the content it might improve the sound to be able to change the speaker setting to large with the subwoofer connected. Any thoughts?

[recoveryone]

WHY? your 3 fronts should be carrying most of the sound content not just the center.

[JeffKnob]

WHY? your 3 fronts should be carrying most of the sound content not just the center.

Because during a movie the center handles the largest percentage of the sound.

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/home/ht_speakers.html

I have read it other places as well.

[recoveryone]

Sound s more like you need to adjust the distance setting on your fronts than adding bass to the center. Your center should handle dialog, and the LF/RF aid with all other sounds that come from the front/center.

I read your link and it too suggest that a matching Lf/Rf along with the center creates the full sound. and your number is off it only said 50% not 90%

[JeffKnob]

Sound s more like you need to adjust the distance setting on your fronts than adding bass to the center. Your center should handle dialog, and the LF/RF aid with all other sounds that come from the front/center.

I read your link and it too suggest that a matching Lf/Rf along with the center creates the full sound. and your number is off it only said 50% not 90%

The distance is set fine according to my receiver's YPAO. This has nothing to do with level. It has to do witht he dynamic range that most center channel speakers are able to do. All of my front speakers are matched as well.

There was no where I said 90% came from the center.

I think you misunderstand what I am asking.

Definitive Technology has built-in powered subwoofers in the C/L/R Center Channels. I am wondering if people have experienced something like this. I was thinking I could accomplish this same thing with a small powered subwoofer inline with my center channel.

[recoveryone]

Sorry if I read too much into it.

[SlumpBuster]

The Crutchfield figure is somewhat outdated. In original Dolby Prologic, the center channel was a matrix of the Left and Right. Accordingly, alot of info was coming through the center. With Neo6 or any of the new decoders, you can still get alot of center info.

With DD or DTS, there is a discrete center channel. Accordingly, what comes out of the center is whatever the mix puts into it.

To answer your question, I have a separate sub in my center channel wired just how you describe. I set the center to large. And it works great. Takes some fiddling to get it to blend correctly with the center.

[musicman1999]

Does your reciever have seperatly adjustable crossover for each channel,if so that would a better choice,rather than running a seperate sub in this fashion.Putting a cheap sub would also introduce a poor quality crossover,in the sub,to the system.

bill

[recoveryone]

Hey slump, glad you chimed in. My question on this what is the purpose of adding a sub to the center speaker. With discrete channels would you get any use out of it. All of my fronts crossover at 80hz (THX setting) even though they are able to go down to 65hz. But I guess its a matter of taste. I perfer a clean detail sound from my center and not have the dialog clouded with lower freq's.

[Woochifer]

Your assumption about the center playing the majority of the content is correct with movie soundtracks. However, most of that sound content is dialog, which does not include a lot of bass content. (Dolby Pro Logic by default has a lower limit on the low frequency content that gets channeled through the center speaker) If you center channel is rated down to about 60 Hz, you probably don't need a subwoofer for most soundtracks. Of course, there are always exceptions, but I'm just not sure if the return will be worth the expense and extra complexity.

The only instances where you might get a lot of low frequency content going into the center channel would be with multichannel music. But, even there a lot of recording engineers increasingly make very judicious use of the center channel in their 5.1 mixes.

In actuality, your best alignment would be to use identical speaker/sub combos for all three speakers up front, IF you have enough space up front to accommodate another main speaker in the center. If you already use subs with your L and R speakers, the match won't be exact if the center speaker is a typical horizontally aligned design.

Since you already use a subwoofer in your system, why not try hooking it up to the center speaker and see if you like it? Slump seems to like that approach, so who knows if it will work for you as well.

[recoveryone]

Thanks Woo, I'm still a bit lost on the concept, I can understand the L/R needing a sub, but the center????

[SlumpBuster]

Since you already use a subwoofer in your system, why not try hooking it up to the center speaker and see if you like it? Slump seems to like that approach, so who knows if it will work for you as well.


Yeah, a little clarification for everyone's benefit. First, I have only used this config for about 2 weeks now, so I'm still judging.

Second, there is no muddling, everything is properly balanced.

Third, I have identified two things that it has been really handy for: Neo6 is what I use for regular TV. Tons of the info comes through the center channel including unrestricted bass content. The sub in the center has made a drastic improvement, even though all that bass content theoretically should have been steered to my .1 LFE sub. Multi-Channel music DVD: On the Blue Man Group: Complex Rock Tour the center channel pull the weight on whatever the Blue Men are playing. There was a noticable and distinct change, even though again, all the bass content should have been steered to to the LFE. My settings had the Center on SMALL, now it is on LARGE.

Fourth, the sub is not a cheap piece of junk. Well, not that cheap anyway. :D Rather it is an inexpensive Velodyne 8" 130 watt (CHT-8), retailed for $399 and I got mine on open box for like 50% 4 years ago. It was a sub that I always liked and thougth was from and underrated line. So if that fits the definition of small and cheap, then okay. But, I don't think a $99 ebay special will do the trick.

Fifth, I already had the sub layin' around. Didn't buy it specifically for this use.

[JeffKnob]

I was possibly thinking of getting some cheap 8" sub on ebay and replacing the driver with a TangBand sub from Partsexpress or just building one from scratch.

[recoveryone]

Thanks ,Slump, I was more in the thinking mode of DD/DTS or even DPLII where the bass info is sent to .1 but your source does not have discrete channels then I understand more for the need. My cable is optically and fully digital so I guess I don't get the cross signals

[SlumpBuster]

I was possibly thinking of getting some cheap 8" sub on ebay and replacing the driver with a TangBand sub from Partsexpress or just building one from scratch.

Well, I can vote "yes" for that based on the fun factor alone. Too many times people forget that this is supposed to be about having fun, not just a search for "perfection" whatever that may mean.

[SlumpBuster]

My cable is optically and fully digital so I guess I don't get the cross signals


Guess again. :D This may not be true. Alot of digital cable providers are providing a mix of digital and analog signals. If it is true digital on all channels, then you will not need a regular RCA cable from the cable box to the receiver. If you have only an optical or coaxial or HDMI connection, but get audio on all channels, then you can truely say that you are all digital. If you are missing sound on any channels or require a regular RCA cable, then you are not all digital.

Even if you are all digital, not all signals are 5.1. HBO for example broadcasts in both 5.1 and stereo. Even if you are all digital, that stereo signal, digital or otherwise, will need to be processed by DPLII or Neo6, ect.

If you are indeed true all digital, what cable provider are you using?

[recoveryone]

Guess again. :D This may not be true. Alot of digital cable providers are providing a mix of digital and analog signals. If it is true digital on all channels, then you will not need a regular RCA cable from the cable box to the receiver. If you have only an optical or coaxial or HDMI connection, but get audio on all channels, then you can truely say that you are all digital. If you are missing sound on any channels or require a regular RCA cable, then you are not all digital.

Even if you are all digital, not all signals are 5.1. HBO for example broadcasts in both 5.1 and stereo. Even if you are all digital, that stereo signal, digital or otherwise, will need to be processed by DPLII or Neo6, ect.

If you are indeed true all digital, what cable provider are you using?

Time Warner took over for adelphia in September last in So Cal and all of the channels were upgraded to full digital status. Now digital does not mean all channels are in 5.1, but most AVR will be able to tell you what type of signal you are getting:
Digital Stereo L/R
Digital Surround L/R/S
Digital 5.1 L/R/C/SL/SR/LEF
now if you were not getting a digital feed then you would not get any reading as above, which would mean you are getting analog sound over a digital connection. All of my channels give me one of the above settings and it may vary on the program also on the same channels. I have HDMTV and some concert are in full 5.1 and others are only Digital stereo the same as with watching Football games they come across in full 5.1 but some of the commericals are in digital stereo or Stereo surround.

So I can see my AVR changing status of signal all the time as I change channels or even watching the same channel when programs change. Now to get to what I think your going, my system also change mode of listening when the signal changes DD/DPLII. Which still will provide the incoming signal with proper direction of where the bass should go, and other ambiet sounds.

[SlumpBuster]

So Cal

There's the answer. Some of us never made it our of the Midwest, only setting up shop where the wagon train broke down. We only got disco here like last year.

[recoveryone]

lol.....truth be known the eastcoast people get the upgrades and special testing of cable and HD before us left coast people do. I was a beta tester for my area for HD in 2004 I had brought my TV 3 years earlier thinking HD was right around the corner. So don't feel bad we all been there waiting for our local cable ppl to catch up with the technology and still not charges us an arm and a leg plus your first born to pay for it.